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Changes to the Battle System and More (2/1/2011)Follow

#52tylerbee, Posted: Feb 01 2011 at 3:21 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Too little too late :/
#53 Feb 01 2011 at 3:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Better late than never Smiley: grin

psyched for tomorrow!
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#54 Feb 01 2011 at 8:33 PM Rating: Decent
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FinalSwag wrote:
Last Edit: and why would people opt for medium size parties when bigger parties allows you to take down tougher mobs with a greater party bonus...
Edited, Feb 1st 2011 4:27pm by FinalSwag


Maybe the bonus has a point of diminishing returns around 6-7. If the SP awarded is based on what the mob checks to a party, then it will probably be most efficient to form in groups of that size. Something that checks dark red to a group of 15 is way higher rank compared to members than what checks dark red to a group of 6-7. It might just be more efficient to level with mid-sized groups.

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#55 Feb 01 2011 at 10:30 PM Rating: Good
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That would be pretty stupid of them if they did do that. Really stupid.


This is still SE isn't it? Kinda like releasing a game like ffxiv last fall.
#56 Feb 01 2011 at 11:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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please no to specialised roles or am i the only one to think this way? specific roles for jobs is why i ended up stopping playing ffxi. it engenders rigid thinking and when people try to be different because of skill or experience its frowned upon or worse
Well, you may not be the only one, but certainly you are a minority. The problem we have now is that combat is effectively a button-mashing game, not one that requires much in the way of skill or tactics. The main reason for this is because there are no defined roles in the game.

I for one would welcome more defined roles because it gets players to put a little effort into teaming. There have been dozens of suggestions on how to do this without spoiling the system we already have in place, so it'll be interesting to see how it's finally implemented.

Back on topic though, am I the only one who's a little concerned that they're only addressing the solo SP drop-off for a mere 3 levels yet have stated time and again they intended FFXIV to be solo-friendly? Always seemed contradictory to me. Soloing for SP should always be possible without being punished for it. They can enhance the SP rewards of party play to make it more enticing, but that doesn't mean they should give solo players a reduction.

Still, it's an issue I'll wait to criticise better when I see just how different SP gains really are. Otherwise, it's a solid update.
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#57 Feb 02 2011 at 12:00 AM Rating: Good
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tylerbee wrote:
Too little too late :/

A good start, though but this needed to be fixed like... around launch... and properly.


well, i think its rather premature to say "too little", as there is a metric ton of patches headed our way.

You do have a point though, that almost all of what we've received in terms of patches so far has been stuff that should have been there from the start. But...it wasn't, so Yoshi has to start from the reality of the situation in front of him. I could take the point further, in that Yoshi's honest and open letters to us is something that we should have had all along. But again, it's not september 2010 anymore.

At this point, i think the most reasonable thing to do is view XIV as a new title that is being released by a new team, and that release is probably slated for around...juneish?

6 months seems like a pretty reasonable time for the team to have the game up to par imo.
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#58 Feb 02 2011 at 12:19 AM Rating: Good
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Glitterhands wrote:
Quote:
please no to specialised roles or am i the only one to think this way? specific roles for jobs is why i ended up stopping playing ffxi. it engenders rigid thinking and when people try to be different because of skill or experience its frowned upon or worse
Well, you may not be the only one, but certainly you are a minority. The problem we have now is that combat is effectively a button-mashing game, not one that requires much in the way of skill or tactics. The main reason for this is because there are no defined roles in the game.

I for one would welcome more defined roles because it gets players to put a little effort into teaming. There have been dozens of suggestions on how to do this without spoiling the system we already have in place, so it'll be interesting to see how it's finally implemented.

Back on topic though, am I the only one who's a little concerned that they're only addressing the solo SP drop-off for a mere 3 levels yet have stated time and again they intended FFXIV to be solo-friendly? Always seemed contradictory to me. Soloing for SP should always be possible without being punished for it. They can enhance the SP rewards of party play to make it more enticing, but that doesn't mean they should give solo players a reduction.

Still, it's an issue I'll wait to criticise better when I see just how different SP gains really are. Otherwise, it's a solid update.


Maybe 20-23 was some sort of translation error? Im not sure how that could be possible...but has anyone else checked other region lodestone letters?
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#59 Feb 02 2011 at 12:39 AM Rating: Decent
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just so im totally clear on the defined job classes, what EXACTLY do they mean? i mean, we have a healer, nuker, enfeebler, and tons of melee, aoe melee (mrd) and single target (other classes) so i guess i just dont see the classes being any more defined since in my head they already are lol
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#60 Feb 02 2011 at 12:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Magnesium02 wrote:

For players engaging in solo battle, the amount of skill and experience points currently awarded after rank 20 falls off sharply. To address this, we will be implementing changes that will better balance the amount available between ranks 20 and 23.


IMO forced partying/social was one of the problems of the game going into release... why make it worse?

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 3:08pm by KingWinterclaw
#61 Feb 02 2011 at 12:59 AM Rating: Good
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pixelpop wrote:
just so im totally clear on the defined job classes, what EXACTLY do they mean? i mean, we have a healer, nuker, enfeebler, and tons of melee, aoe melee (mrd) and single target (other classes) so i guess i just dont see the classes being any more defined since in my head they already are lol


I think people want each of the classes to have more differentiation in moves. Every melee attacker seems to have too many similar skills/not enough fully visible advantages. Personally, I dont like that Marauders seem to be sorta better tanks at the moment than Gladiators.

Ideally, i'd think of Gladiators as violent tanks /impenetrable defense wall (really needs to have more Gladiator sounding moves...disorient should've been a Gladiator move really), Marauder as a full on berserk attacker, getting stronger and stronger/maybe using HP in it's attacks sorta like a Dark Knight. Pugilists should be evasion tanks, since they seem to be monks+thieves, and have attacks that boost defense/evasion. Lancers should be able to trip up enemies, causing debuffs all over, and be able to attack fast from a distance.

Archers seem to be ok from what i've seen...for now anyway. Cant really comment on the mage classes.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 1:03am by Teknoman
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#62 Feb 02 2011 at 1:14 AM Rating: Good
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aaah ok, yeah i can totally see that, as you cant comment on mage classes i guess thats why i had to ask that question since i cant comment on any of the melee classes since they are they majority.
i think CON and THM are actually quite different. they both can heal but differently, thm relies on its regen while con cure bombs. thm enfeebles and buffs very differently than con, the only thing i dont like is that they made con both blm and whm.
i think this game could easily impliment one more perfectly defined mage class. make CON a BLM with some new spells to replace the WHM spells, add WHM and give IT some more of its trademark spells and abilities and voila, three individual mage classes.
im all for both CON and THM being worked on and improved but yeah i personally think they are already different enough from eachother.
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#63 Feb 02 2011 at 3:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Llester wrote:
tylerbee wrote:
Too little too late :/

A good start, though but this needed to be fixed like... around launch... and properly.


well, i think its rather premature to say "too little", as there is a metric ton of patches headed our way.

You do have a point though, that almost all of what we've received in terms of patches so far has been stuff that should have been there from the start. But...it wasn't, so Yoshi has to start from the reality of the situation in front of him. I could take the point further, in that Yoshi's honest and open letters to us is something that we should have had all along. But again, it's not september 2010 anymore.

At this point, i think the most reasonable thing to do is view XIV as a new title that is being released by a new team, and that release is probably slated for around...juneish?

6 months seems like a pretty reasonable time for the team to have the game up to par imo.


lol i told my friend the other day to keep his eyes open for FFXIV pt.2 this summer. he was like "wow really? that was quick." i thought he knew what i was talking about...
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#64 Feb 02 2011 at 4:30 AM Rating: Default
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How long till this patch?
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#65 Feb 02 2011 at 4:44 AM Rating: Decent
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forced partying


lolz

The more homogenization there is, the less of a hassle grouping is. I don't want to look for that specific class X(RDM,BRD) that is able to perform in role Y(Debuff/Buff,Refresh) needed in activity Z(Exping).

Maybe you haven't had enough of that sort of headache but I sure as **** have.

Granted, homogenization does not mean the classes can't be diverse (which they aren't now) so I'd work on that instead.
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#66 Feb 02 2011 at 6:20 AM Rating: Decent
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The more homogenization there is, the less of a hassle grouping is. I don't want to look for that specific class X(RDM,BRD) that is able to perform in role Y(Debuff/Buff,Refresh) needed in activity Z(Exping).


A valid concern; yet, I severely miss the "R" in "RPG". Find a solution
to make parties of different composition viable, and I`m all for clear-cut
differences between the classes.
#67 Feb 02 2011 at 7:37 AM Rating: Good
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tylerbee wrote:
How long till this patch?

they scheduled to take the servers down 6.5 hours after this reply
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#68 Feb 02 2011 at 7:41 AM Rating: Decent
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class roles is not roleplaying per se when you are a character in an mmorpg. in 11 ninja was meh became a tank now is a dd, not because that was the design but because thats what people viewed the class for the majority of ninjas. in eq rng was the tank until kunark then became toilet now its dd/dps. you can roleplay a chef, i dont know what "role" in a party a chef has? cc/dps/tank? as for button mashing that isnt only 14 and doesnt mean it requires group roles to fix. the battle mechanics are screwed for sure, and providing taunt for a few jobs but in a different manner provides flexibity. for example war provoke and pld flash. both achieve similar ends in adifferent ways.
if they go the vision route of what group role each job has then it doesnt promote individuality or skill imo. yes fix some things for some jobs but dont do it in such a way that it defines that job and restricts it. personally i like trying wierd stuff, i prefer to solo but then again finding a group or assistance with anything is usually more challenging than fighting. i know i spent more time trying to make a grp or find a group as a nin than fighting. to me that means somethings wrong. 14 could so easily go that way.
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#69 Feb 02 2011 at 9:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Glitterhands wrote:
Quote:
please no to specialised roles or am i the only one to think this way? specific roles for jobs is why i ended up stopping playing ffxi. it engenders rigid thinking and when people try to be different because of skill or experience its frowned upon or worse
Well, you may not be the only one, but certainly you are a minority. The problem we have now is that combat is effectively a button-mashing game, not one that requires much in the way of skill or tactics. The main reason for this is because there are no defined roles in the game.

I for one would welcome more defined roles because it gets players to put a little effort into teaming. There have been dozens of suggestions on how to do this without spoiling the system we already have in place, so it'll be interesting to see how it's finally implemented.

Back on topic though, am I the only one who's a little concerned that they're only addressing the solo SP drop-off for a mere 3 levels yet have stated time and again they intended FFXIV to be solo-friendly? Always seemed contradictory to me. Soloing for SP should always be possible without being punished for it. They can enhance the SP rewards of party play to make it more enticing, but that doesn't mean they should give solo players a reduction.Still, it's an issue I'll wait to criticise better when I see just how different SP gains really are. Otherwise, it's a solid update.

I am concerned as well. I am hoping they have a good balance.


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#70 Feb 02 2011 at 9:14 AM Rating: Good
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am I the only one who's a little concerned that they're only addressing the solo SP drop-off for a mere 3 levels yet have stated time and again they intended FFXIV to be solo-friendly?


They have stated time and time again that the game is casual-friendly and that you can solo in it. Casual =/= Solo. Can solo =/= Soloing is the preferred choice.
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#71 Feb 02 2011 at 9:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
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am I the only one who's a little concerned that they're only addressing the solo SP drop-off for a mere 3 levels yet have stated time and again they intended FFXIV to be solo-friendly?


They have stated time and time again that the game is casual-friendly and that you can solo in it. Casual =/= Solo. Can solo =/= Soloing is the preferred choice.


I think she is trying to communicate that casual friendly doesn't get over run by "party only" exp. That's all.
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#72 Feb 02 2011 at 9:42 AM Rating: Good
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I think she is trying to communicate that casual friendly doesn't get over run by "party only" exp. That's all.


Why would you assume these two things are separate?
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#73 Feb 02 2011 at 9:45 AM Rating: Good
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Casual is one of the most misused words on this forum.
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#74 Feb 02 2011 at 9:56 AM Rating: Good
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LyleVertigo wrote:
Casual is one of the most misused words on this forum.

It is....and i still blame WoW

its like the Wii of the gameing world.
#75 Feb 02 2011 at 10:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
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I think she is trying to communicate that casual friendly doesn't get over run by "party only" exp. That's all.


Why would you assume these two things are separate?


IDK why don't you ask her. Or better yet, why don't you define the difference? You and her?

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 11:22am by LillithaFenimore
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