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EDITORIAL: Gonna Fly Now?Follow

#52 Feb 02 2011 at 2:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
so 1.15b will most likely be the content patch for February.


Sorry, but that`s something people are pulling out of their asses.
I wouldn`t hold by breath for yet another lightning-fast miracle
patch.


Not a miracle patch, just a normal one focused on content. He already said that NPC quests among other things would be implemented sometime after early Feb, and since there is a 1.15a, logically there should at least be a 1.15b this month, since like previously stated, at least 2 updates will happen per month until XIV is in a "fun state"...or PS3 launch :P

Not to mention its pretty obvious that this patch is focused on upgrading/fixing UI and basic gameplay issues, which regardless of scale, are pretty detailed changes.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 2:21pm by Teknoman
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#53 Feb 02 2011 at 5:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Lubriderm the Fussy wrote:
Then quit? I don't understand what you want them to do. I guess they could hire Harry Potter, Merlin, and Gandalf, and fix all the play problems and add a bunch of content all at the same time. If "you" don't "enjoy" the "ride," then "get" off the "bus." """"""""


I was responding to an editorial, not starting a thread to criticize SE. The editorial is all this naive pie-in-the-sky hope hope hope just like it was in FFXI and it's just tired and old and sadly, even a little pathetic. And I'm not trying to be mean guy. I'm really not. I appreciate Thayos' contributions to the site but at some point you just have to give your head a shake and come back down to planet earth for a few minutes.

If SE doesn't get this game out to more people, all this hope hope hope is going to amount to a great sodding pile of jack all because XIV is not financially viable right now. And if they can't get the game in shape, the PS3 version isn't going to save them, either. There are too many western MMOs shipping for consoles in the next little while for SE to be able to cache in on the niche of western players who would like to play an MMO on a console but only have one choice. And after the lambasting SE has received in even the Japanese media and fan circles, mediocre isn't going to ship a ton of JP PS3 units, either.

Those are the facts. So while everyone is getting ants in their pants over pretty floaty combat text and changes to stack sizes...nothing has changed. Why do you guys ride this roller coaster? Why do you work yourselves into this frenzy? Ya'll did the exact same thing during open beta last year and then release and RAAAAAAAGE. So two months from now when the game still really hasn't changed all that much and you sit back and say whoa...this still sucks...what then? More rage? Another round of blasting SE, only this time it's Yoshida who let you all down and you had such high hopes for Yoshida and and and...what?

The kinds of changes the game needs take time. There's no point getting all worked up over nothing right now. AMG Yoshida really does know his stuff! He added AN EVENT RESET TIMER!! WTF he is teh geezus!!

Really. You like XIV now enough to play? I'm happy for ya. You want to see more? No problem. In fact, you NEED to see more or all this manic obsession is just going to be a massive disappointment because there are still no guarantees whatsoever that the XIV servers are even going to be live in a year from now. Cheeseball 80s cheerleader editorials aside, the game is still in a tragic state and this patch did approximately nothing to change that.
#54 Feb 02 2011 at 5:46 PM Rating: Good
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1,596 posts
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Woah, looks like all hope is lost then.


Well, considering that the FFXI fanbase was one of the main targets for them at the start, it's kind of a big deal when it failed to draw many people over / keep the people it did.
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#55 Feb 02 2011 at 5:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
Lubriderm the Fussy wrote:
Then quit? I don't understand what you want them to do. I guess they could hire Harry Potter, Merlin, and Gandalf, and fix all the play problems and add a bunch of content all at the same time. If "you" don't "enjoy" the "ride," then "get" off the "bus." """"""""


I was responding to an editorial, not starting a thread to criticize SE. The editorial is all this naive pie-in-the-sky hope hope hope just like it was in FFXI and it's just tired and old and sadly, even a little pathetic. And I'm not trying to be mean guy. I'm really not. I appreciate Thayos' contributions to the site but at some point you just have to give your head a shake and come back down to planet earth for a few minutes.

If SE doesn't get this game out to more people, all this hope hope hope is going to amount to a great sodding pile of jack all because XIV is not financially viable right now. And if they can't get the game in shape, the PS3 version isn't going to save them, either. There are too many western MMOs shipping for consoles in the next little while for SE to be able to cache in on the niche of western players who would like to play an MMO on a console but only have one choice. And after the lambasting SE has received in even the Japanese media and fan circles, mediocre isn't going to ship a ton of JP PS3 units, either.

Those are the facts. So while everyone is getting ants in their pants over pretty floaty combat text and changes to stack sizes...nothing has changed. Why do you guys ride this roller coaster? Why do you work yourselves into this frenzy? Ya'll did the exact same thing during open beta last year and then release and RAAAAAAAGE. So two months from now when the game still really hasn't changed all that much and you sit back and say whoa...this still sucks...what then? More rage? Another round of blasting SE, only this time it's Yoshida who let you all down and you had such high hopes for Yoshida and and and...what?

The kinds of changes the game needs take time. There's no point getting all worked up over nothing right now. AMG Yoshida really does know his stuff! He added AN EVENT RESET TIMER!! WTF he is teh geezus!!

Really. You like XIV now enough to play? I'm happy for ya. You want to see more? No problem. In fact, you NEED to see more or all this manic obsession is just going to be a massive disappointment because there are still no guarantees whatsoever that the XIV servers are even going to be live in a year from now. Cheeseball 80s cheerleader editorials aside, the game is still in a tragic state and this patch did approximately nothing to change that.


I agree and disagree with you. I believe that the PS3 release will bring a big number of population to this game and if it doesn't, this game will fail. Al though I don't think anyone can do a better job other than this new director. Making this game better will take A LOT of work and it needs a lot of planning. But yeah, just give it time. You're right that SE needs to heavily advertise this game once PS3 release comes out. I believe that this game is gonna make a big come back!
#56 Feb 02 2011 at 5:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Aurelius wrote:


I was responding to an editorial, not starting a thread to criticize SE. The editorial is all this naive pie-in-the-sky hope hope hope just like it was in FFXI and it's just tired and old and sadly, even a little pathetic. And I'm not trying to be mean guy. I'm really not. I appreciate Thayos' contributions to the site but at some point you just have to give your head a shake and come back down to planet earth for a few minutes.



To be fair Thayos has been pretty balanced about his viewpoints. I've seen him do some pretty negative stuff as well. It seems he is damned no matter what he says.

If you don't think them doing two updates a month is enough - well you just will never be pleased. We all realize it will take time to make this game better, but as long as we are seeing constant improvement, that is what matters.

As for SE pulling the plug or w/e - I just don't see it happening for a long time. They are better off eating some small continuing losses while they get this game in shape than in losing hundreds of millions of dollars in one fell swoop. I also don't believe that they won't get new players once they fix things up. Heck, they are still getting new players and the game is no where near where it should be atm.

Not to mention there are plenty of people who aren't playing now who have made it clear they are going to give it another shot once it gets into shape.

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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#57 Feb 02 2011 at 6:22 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Aurelius wrote:


I was responding to an editorial, not starting a thread to criticize SE. The editorial is all this naive pie-in-the-sky hope hope hope just like it was in FFXI and it's just tired and old and sadly, even a little pathetic. And I'm not trying to be mean guy. I'm really not. I appreciate Thayos' contributions to the site but at some point you just have to give your head a shake and come back down to planet earth for a few minutes.



To be fair Thayos has been pretty balanced about his viewpoints. I've seen him do some pretty negative stuff as well. It seems he is damned no matter what he says.


Consistency would suit me better, but he's got his thing and I normally leave it alone. This time I think it was just a bit much. You don't go from mountains of criticism on a developer, complaining about no communication, etc. etc. to all of a sudden over the moon with hope an excitement because they tweaked SP tables and further refined the wards search. Those are two steps behind public testing for most MMOs.

Quote:
If you don't think them doing two updates a month is enough - well you just will never be pleased. We all realize it will take time to make this game better, but as long as we are seeing constant improvement, that is what matters.


I know how it is. You get so used to people trashing SE for this and that that anyone who has anything critical to say about the game must therefore be criticizing SE, right? I'm not. I'm voicing a critical view of the state of the game as an alternative point of view to this sudden fountain of enthusiasm over such a trivial patch. There's a difference. I know **** well it's going to be months before Yoshida can be realistically expected to get XIV even close to decent. It's not going to be next month. It's not going to be April. You'll be lucky if summer rolls around and someone doing a re-review of the game can muster, "It's still not very good but at least it's no longer trash."

And that's the point, because I already see the sh*t show coming. Two months from now when people are running thin on patience (again) and still refuse to accept that the kinds of things the game needs can take months to develop, it's going to be back to the rage, back to the SE bashing, back to bashing the director only this time it will be Yoshida taking the brunt of it. It was exactly the same thing with FFXI. Vanafest or a quarterly interview or some other trivial event would spark all this enthusiasm from players and then three months later they'd be doing nothing but ******** about this and whining about that and SE is terrible and Tanaka is a jerk...roller coaster. Up and down, but mostly down. All the time.

If you're okay to struggle through for another 6-9 months just waiting for the game to be something that you can enjoy beyond fishing and some crafting in small doses, I'm fine with that. I'm not going to cut you down for it. But on the flip side of the coin, it's not really beneficial to let something like today's patch reignite the fires of anticipation. Those fires will burn out long before Yoshida is close to making the game viable.

Quote:
As for SE pulling the plug or w/e - I just don't see it happening for a long time. They are better off eating some small continuing losses while they get this game in shape than in losing hundreds of millions of dollars in one fell swoop. I also don't believe that they won't get new players once they fix things up. Heck, they are still getting new players and the game is no where near where it should be atm.


Every month that SE pushes development without seeing a return is costing them hundreds of thousands of dollars and at some point they have to decide whether or not they can turn it around. If it has cost them $100 million to develop up to this point, they're better off to stop the bleeding at $102 million and take the hit than to let it fester up to $120 million before it crashes and burns. (Again, numbers drawn from **** for example only). You don't keep throwing good money after bad if it becomes apparent that the ship has already sunk. The ship is still sinking. By late summer of this year, it will have been patched and offering enough to "re-release" and be financially viable, or you'd better believe Wada is going to be standing there ready to pull the plug. Can Yoshida ship essentially a full game's worth of quality content in less than nine months? It depends on what tools Tanaka left him with. I would say it's possible, and that there are no guarantees.

I'm not trying to take shots at the people still playing because that's not what this is about. But that doesn't mean I don't periodically notice my CE box sitting on the shelf and think, "bleh". And today's patch doesn't change that.


Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 4:23pm by Aurelius
#58 Feb 02 2011 at 6:45 PM Rating: Good
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I hate to be a Realistic Ronald (as opposed to a Negative Nancy or a Positive Pete, but somewhere in the middle), but...

Aurelius wrote:
I know how it is. You get so used to people trashing SE for this and that that anyone who has anything critical to say about the game must therefore be criticizing SE, right? I'm not. I'm voicing a critical view of the state of the game as an alternative point of view to this sudden fountain of enthusiasm over such a trivial patch. There's a difference. I know **** well it's going to be months before Yoshida can be realistically expected to get XIV even close to decent. It's not going to be next month. It's not going to be April. You'll be lucky if summer rolls around and someone doing a re-review of the game can muster, "It's still not very good but at least it's no longer trash."

And that's the point, because I already see the sh*t show coming. Two months from now when people are running thin on patience (again) and still refuse to accept that the kinds of things the game needs can take months to develop, it's going to be back to the rage, back to the SE bashing, back to bashing the director only this time it will be Yoshida taking the brunt of it. It was exactly the same thing with FFXI. Vanafest or a quarterly interview or some other trivial event would spark all this enthusiasm from players and then three months later they'd be doing nothing but ******** about this and whining about that and SE is terrible and Tanaka is a jerk...roller coaster. Up and down, but mostly down. All the time.

If you're okay to struggle through for another 6-9 months just waiting for the game to be something that you can enjoy beyond fishing and some crafting in small doses, I'm fine with that. I'm not going to cut you down for it. But on the flip side of the coin, it's not really beneficial to let something like today's patch reignite the fires of anticipation. Those fires will burn out long before Yoshida is close to making the game viable.


Even if you don't like the points he's making, they're valid points. It shouldn't come down to "Either you love the game or you are an evil person who needs to die". The game is still in development phases. It is slowly but surely improving and has been slowly but surely improving since September. But something that many people forget is the first part of "Slowly but surely".

The game -will- get where it needs to be -eventually-, and I'm not even saying that you shouldn't be happy for these improvements, because they -are- a good thing. But at the same time, people need to keep their focus on the goal and remember that just as you can't scale Everest in a day, Yoshi-P can't fix FFXIV overnight. If you have faith in the guy then you gotta be in it for the long haul. If minor fixes are making you believe the game will be magically awesome in a month, you're getting your hopes up. Set your expectations and your hopes -realistically- based on the pacing of updates and you'll be fine.

But like he said, I really don't want to see the same people who are super excited today be super bummed a month from now because they put -too much- faith in someone.

It's one thing to expect Christmas presents will be under your tree on Christmas. It's another to expect they'll be there on Valentine's day. Keep reasonable expectations and I have faith that Yoshida will be your guy. Don't assume he's more than human, and capable of superhuman feats, or you're only going to let -yourself- down, and that -won't- be Yoshida's fault.
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#59 Feb 02 2011 at 6:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Aurelius, your point about the rollercoaster is kind of moot because people still play FFXI. If they didn't pull the plug on that then FFXIV players won't ever have to worry. FFXI had terrible reviews when it made its debut too. Adam Sessler gave it a bashing on X-play, IGN rated it below average, etc. Having played it personally I kept wondering why FFXI developers hated me, the player in the game, so much. Yet people still play it and swear by it like it's the best MMO that was and ever will be (usually over-exaggerating its better qualities or claiming its shortfalls were actually good things).

I get your frustration- and you seem very frustrated- but realize it's just a game. It's a video game you play when you have time to kill and want to sit on your *** for a few hour while feeling like you're doing something productive. It's not a ******* way of life.No one should get emotional over this game. It's not a loved one and you can't hurt its feelings if you go play something else. I see people here defend it and make excuses for it like it's their child or something. It's not.

So people, players, forums lurkers, don't worry about the **** updates. If it reaches a point where you think it might be fun then go play it, otherwise go do something else. This isn't complicated.
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#60 Feb 02 2011 at 6:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Aurelius wrote:
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Aurelius wrote:


I was responding to an editorial, not starting a thread to criticize SE. The editorial is all this naive pie-in-the-sky hope hope hope just like it was in FFXI and it's just tired and old and sadly, even a little pathetic. And I'm not trying to be mean guy. I'm really not. I appreciate Thayos' contributions to the site but at some point you just have to give your head a shake and come back down to planet earth for a few minutes.



To be fair Thayos has been pretty balanced about his viewpoints. I've seen him do some pretty negative stuff as well. It seems he is damned no matter what he says.


Consistency would suit me better, but he's got his thing and I normally leave it alone. This time I think it was just a bit much. You don't go from mountains of criticism on a developer, complaining about no communication, etc. etc. to all of a sudden over the moon with hope an excitement because they tweaked SP tables and further refined the wards search.

some proverb wrote:
"The most wonderful meal I've ever eaten was a worm I found beneath that stone." said the starving man

Loses something in translation (and the fact I can't remember how it went doesn't help much either). People are jonesing for their FF fix and anything can get them high.
#61 Feb 02 2011 at 7:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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reptiletim wrote:
Aurelius, your point about the rollercoaster is kind of moot because people still play FFXI. If they didn't pull the plug on that then FFXIV players won't ever have to worry. FFXI had terrible reviews when it made its debut too. Adam Sessler gave it a bashing on X-play, IGN rated it below average, etc. Having played it personally I kept wondering why FFXI developers hated me, the player in the game, so much. Yet people still play it and swear by it like it's the best MMO that was and ever will be (usually over-exaggerating its better qualities or claiming its shortfalls were actually good things).


I think the rollercoaster reference was referring to people who get super awesome excited about every little thing in FFXI, even the tiniest little update was widely received by FFXI players as the second (or third or fourth or fifth) coming of Christ, and that in 2-3 months, these same people were back to being just as jaded and downtrodden as before, if not moreso.

There is, in fact, a group of players who accept what the game is at face value and enjoy it (in XI and in XIV) but he's right that there are players (also in both games) who tended to get super excited about every single patch, and super lethargic less than a month later.

The following quote, while probably not intended this way, illustrates my point:

MrTalos wrote:
some proverb wrote:
"The most wonderful meal I've ever eaten was a worm I found beneath that stone." said the starving man

Loses something in translation (and the fact I can't remember how it went doesn't help much either). People are jonesing for their FF fix and anything can get them high.


FFXI and FFXIV are both like drugs in the respect that if you're responsible and enjoy them on a reasonable level, they can keep you happy for many years. But if you go crazy and snort a pound of coke as soon as you see it, you're going to end up ultra euphoric, followed by a severe crash when you realize that snorting a pound of coke seemed like a much better idea before you did it.

It's the same with the updates in XI, and will be the same in XIV. If you take them for what they are, you will be fine. If you take them for WAY WAY MORE than what they are, you're going to set your hopes way too high and they will become dashed.

I saw the same thing for years in XI, and it was the same exact people every **** time who would ***** about the game day in and day out, and the day before patch day they wouldn't shut the **** up about how the next patch was going to make the game magically better and everything. And then a few days later, they're back to their usual mopey self.

The same could be said for FFXIV as for life itself: If you enjoy yourself for what you have, you'll be happy. If you constantly expect too much, nothing will ever live up to your expectations.
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#62 Feb 02 2011 at 7:13 PM Rating: Good
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reptiletim wrote:
Aurelius, your point about the rollercoaster is kind of moot because people still play FFXI. If they didn't pull the plug on that then FFXIV players won't ever have to worry. FFXI had terrible reviews when it made its debut too. Adam Sessler gave it a bashing on X-play, IGN rated it below average, etc. Having played it personally I kept wondering why FFXI developers hated me, the player in the game, so much. Yet people still play it and swear by it like it's the best MMO that was and ever will be (usually over-exaggerating its better qualities or claiming its shortfalls were actually good things).


FFXI had the advantage of showing up on the scene somewhere between first generation MMOs and WoW. They had enough time and enough "street cred" with the Final Fantasy brand to bring in enough players and get them entrenched so that FFXI was and would remain financially viable. FFXI peaked at what...600k active subs? I'd say a safe estimate of active players in XIV is well under 100k right now, and if SE were to announce tomorrow that subscription fees would be billed starting the end of this month that number would shrink dramatically. What XI did and how is mostly irrelevant. The simple fact of the matter is that SE couldn't keep XIV going as a P2P game if they had to rely on the people currently playing to pay the bills. Just because XI survived with an eccentric player base doesn't mean XIV could expect the same outcome. Not by a long shot.

All these people playing now saying that they're happy with it or they're hopeful about it...doesn't matter. The people playing now aren't going to save XIV. It's the people SE can draw in with the changes they make that can save XIV. And that, in of itself, is enough reason to look at a patch like today's and acknowledge it as something and nothing all at the same time. It's something because it's something. It's nothing because beginning the process of bringing the game to a standard of mediocrity is a very small drop in a very large bucket. Mediocrity won't overcome the stigma that was attached to the game last October. Only greatness will do that. And unless/until SE can overcome that stigma, a trickle of new players here and a handful of old players coming back there won't keep this game from joining other games like APB and Tabula Rasa in the history books. People talk like no MMO has ever pulled the plug after a botched launch. It has happened, and as the industry becomes more and more competitive, scrapped MMOs are becoming more and more common.
#63 Feb 02 2011 at 11:33 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
Loses something in translation (and the fact I can't remember how it went doesn't help much either). People are jonesing for their FF fix and anything can get them high.


Trust me... while I have a lot of fun with FFXIV, it is far from being my drug.

My drug would be Oregon Ducks football, and today I had the pleasure of cracking out on National Signing Day news. Black Mamba, baby! I LOVE MY DUCKS!!!

Now that that's out of my system, I think everyone in this thread is on the same page. Everyone seems to be in agreement that this game is going to take a long time to fix, and that these bi-monthly updates will have to continue for the game to get where it needs to be. Everyone agrees it won't happen overnight, and those of us still playing the game seem to be in it for the long haul.

So... sit back, relax, and go get some SP while the getting is good! Smiley: smile
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#64 Feb 04 2011 at 9:35 AM Rating: Decent
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All these changes that I'm seeing makes me want to play the game again, the only problem I see that HASN'T been fixed yet is content, but I didn't play too much yet for that to be an issue(i'm only level 10). The only problem is my computer monitor has been busted for a month and I haven't gotten the money together for a new one.
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