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SP Changes may mean even slower Solo Ranking up. Follow

#1 Feb 02 2011 at 3:59 PM Rating: Decent
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SP changes listed show that mobs of lesser con to you will now give even less SP then before.

AS the patch isnt over yet its hard to say just how much this will Kill Soloing.

As it was a mob of High Blue low Green con only gave 90-100 ish SP at r43.

Assuming that only green and above are equal to your rank that means that blues that gave 55-60 SP previously could be much lower possibly in 30-40's. I will check as soon as service resumes after patch maintence period ends.

On the bright side SP is supposed to be higher in groups and scale upwards in larger parties. Maybe this will spur group grinding parties.

As of now these type of parties are unheard of on Wutaii unless they are 100% private and not advertised because I have never seen one since leve linking became the Primary method of obtaining SP and group grinding died.

As I dont speak Japanese i am not sure if thats what they are spamming about after 1 am on pacific time zone.

Post your findings on the SP changes here if you get a chance before I do.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 5:00pm by cornyboob
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#2 Feb 02 2011 at 4:01 PM Rating: Good
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I have a sneaking suspicion that this is going to be a heated debate of a thread or some how turn into a flame thread...just saying...
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#3 Feb 02 2011 at 4:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Well I hope it doesnt hurt solo exp to much. I do most of my exping solo. I am glad people who party a bunch will get an exp boost I just hope it doesnt hurt my play style to much.
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#4 Feb 02 2011 at 4:04 PM Rating: Good
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cornyboob wrote:
SP changes listed show that mobs of lesser con to you will now give even less SP then before.
Yeah, but harder mobs will now give more SP/EXP.. so what's the big deal?

I would think that, ideally, you'd try for Yellow mobs while soloing. It should be pretty close to the same SP you were getting before the change.

We can't really say much else until we log in and see exactly how SP was changed.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 3:05pm by Kirby
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#5 Feb 02 2011 at 4:05 PM Rating: Default
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Lol...people get used to rate down Corny it seems xD

But non the less this is a valid concern. I personally don't care for solo SP, if Party SP is working. But meh, there are others who don't like PTing so it shouldn't be even "harder"(time consuming) to grind solo, as it already is.
#6 Feb 02 2011 at 4:06 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Lol...people get used to rate down Corny it seems xD


Even his thread titles smell of troll from 10 miles away.
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#7 Feb 02 2011 at 4:06 PM Rating: Default
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I wont be flaming anyone as i usually dont in my posts unless i am harassed which i dont tollerate.

The SP lowering is clearly stated its is to be lower solo and in groups from lower rank mobs.

Ths only question is what will the threshhold be?

Hopefully it is more then 1-2 ranks before this lowered SP gain is noticed.

I personally think they need to add another color to the spectrum like grey for mobs that no longer give SP or the sp is so low its not worth it. Too many mobs con as Blue its very confusing and hard to tell.
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#8 Feb 02 2011 at 4:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Shezard wrote:
Lol...people get used to rate down Corny it seems xD

But non the less this is a valid concern. I personally don't care for solo SP, if Party SP is working. But meh, there are others who don't like PTing so it shouldn't be even "harder"(time consuming) to grind solo, as it already is.


Then the people who don't like to party shouldn't be playing a multiplayer game.
#9 Feb 02 2011 at 4:11 PM Rating: Good
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djm6007 wrote:
Shezard wrote:
Lol...people get used to rate down Corny it seems xD

But non the less this is a valid concern. I personally don't care for solo SP, if Party SP is working. But meh, there are others who don't like PTing so it shouldn't be even "harder"(time consuming) to grind solo, as it already is.


Then the people who don't like to party shouldn't be playing a multiplayer game.



And this is where my post comes in...

Dear troll, the reason why some don't like to party is because they don't have time, yet they still wish to play a game that offers them a character they can physically create to suit their taste, chose to do a number of crafts only if they wish, or chose to be a battlers like some wish, that is why some people chose to play online games but yet not party.
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#10 Feb 02 2011 at 4:13 PM Rating: Good
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djm6007 wrote:
Shezard wrote:
Lol...people get used to rate down Corny it seems xD

But non the less this is a valid concern. I personally don't care for solo SP, if Party SP is working. But meh, there are others who don't like PTing so it shouldn't be even "harder"(time consuming) to grind solo, as it already is.


Then the people who don't like to party shouldn't be playing a multiplayer game.


I'd agree on that, but grinding solo should still be viable(though I think it should be slower than PT SP), cause sometimes even I would just go out killing some stuff for SP right at that moment, then wait for a PT. But overall I'd prefer FFXI lvling style(pre Abyssea etc.) over any other kind of lvling. My Main Class is already done for now, so I would have to wait for a Rank cap increase before I could PT with him, but my 2nd class is way away from 50, so I'll have my fun grinding him in PTs :D
#11 Feb 02 2011 at 4:14 PM Rating: Default
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The big deal for solo ers and please everyone lets not pretend they dont exist even in a MMO.

Is that if they could kill a harder mob they would be but when it takes 3 minutes to kill a harder mob and you almost die several times and get linked adds during the fight its now a burdan more then a blessing. Only melee class's will be benifited and not mages that are squishy.

It sounds good on paper often but not always good in practice or in reality for every class or playing style.

Kirby, Star Breaker wrote:
cornyboob wrote:
SP changes listed show that mobs of lesser con to you will now give even less SP then before.
Yeah, but harder mobs will now give more SP/EXP.. so what's the big deal?

I would think that, ideally, you'd try for Yellow mobs while soloing. It should be pretty close to the same SP you were getting before the change.

We can't really say much else until we log in and see exactly how SP was changed.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 3:05pm by Kirby

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#12 Feb 02 2011 at 4:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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ya, slower if you wanna stick to fighting a billion blues. As it is right now, fighting anything above blue/green is just not worth it. The "extra" SP you get from yellow/orange/red is minimal at best. And, parties to need some kind of incentive. I don't want solo to become worthless, but parties should definitely have some incentive or bonuses over soloing.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 5:18pm by Scape13
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#13 Feb 02 2011 at 4:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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cornyboob wrote:
I wont be flaming anyone as i usually dont in my posts unless i am harassed which i dont tollerate.


Since everything you post starts at default (meaning you have a lower karma rating than if you started a new account) I would say that this attitude has done you well here.



On topic, I took this to mean that large parties killing lower level mobs for exp in rapid succession will be adjusted and encourage parties to fight tougher enemies so that it will encourage teamwork and prevent the melee burns that took place in FFXI (Colibri merit parties mainly)

The problem with this thought line is that they need to make teamwork grant a more efficient EXP/HR than mindless hacking and slashing. That's always been SE's problem. Instead of encouraging the behaviors they want, they severely nerf and discourage the behaviors they don't approve of.


ADD:

Also, Cornyboob, you should be using Firefox as a browser with noscript and adblock. Not only does this protect you a good deal from keyloggers and the like hidden in banner ads like the attack we suffered in FFXI, but it has a built in spell checker.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 5:20pm by Louiscool
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#14 Feb 02 2011 at 4:16 PM Rating: Decent
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On my Archer I kill yellow mobs so fast, it'll be good sp solo. But I think leves will cater more to people that want to solo, moreso than groups. Behests should yield better sp too. Gonna be interesting.
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#15 Feb 02 2011 at 4:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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As your attorney I suggest you stop being a corny boob.
#16 Feb 02 2011 at 4:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Alot of people I am sure are going to speculate on this change until we see it in action, but my thoughts regardless

People who are getting a ton of SP killing mobs MUCH lower then them, SHOULD be affected by this change.

Why should i be killing level 1 mobs for 100 SP at level 12?
Or level 20 mobs at level 30 for 80 SP? its ALOT of SP for a mob that much lower then me, and its alot of what some people are doing right now
What we are basicaly going to see is more scaling of mob levels vs your current level when killing, the higher a mob is the more it will give
as is, the lower a mob is, the easier it is to kill, the more you get right now(as long as its not too too low) and i think this is what they were aiming on changing

Conning green probly wont change at all, but blue is where i see the hits starting as soon as it starts dipping below that first/second/third level of still being blue.
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#17 Feb 02 2011 at 4:17 PM Rating: Default
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I hate all that nonsense rate downs on ZAM boards...seriously...I mostly agree on the sub defaults for corny...but this particular thread shows a VALID concern. As soon as the servers go live again, this might have been in vain, but as of now, there is a reason to "believe" SP might become worse for Solo players.
#18 Feb 02 2011 at 4:18 PM Rating: Default
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Grinding solo is alreday and has always been slower then partying.

Nothing anounced has ever put solo in risk of surpassing a group effort.

I am always angered and wonder if people are trolls or just not informed when they post the ridiculous comparrison that parties should always be faster then solo.

Casual doesnt mean it should casual grouping or they would add the word grouping to it? See what i mean ? Thus casual means both solo and grouping casual.

Casual solo players should not be exponentially penalized for paying for a game they want to lvoe and play. If they choose to help you then they will. If they want to party they will. If they dont they should still be able to play at a pace that is not prohibitivly slower then everyone else who is blessed with a good time schedule and opportunities to get in large groups on a regular basis.

Ignorance is bliss to you but its a pain in the *** for the guy your irritating.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 5:19pm by cornyboob
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#19 Feb 02 2011 at 4:21 PM Rating: Good
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LillithaFenimore wrote:
djm6007 wrote:
Shezard wrote:
Lol...people get used to rate down Corny it seems xD

But non the less this is a valid concern. I personally don't care for solo SP, if Party SP is working. But meh, there are others who don't like PTing so it shouldn't be even "harder"(time consuming) to grind solo, as it already is.


Then the people who don't like to party shouldn't be playing a multiplayer game.



And this is where my post comes in...

Dear troll, the reason why some don't like to party is because they don't have time, yet they still wish to play a game that offers them a character they can physically create to suit their taste, chose to do a number of crafts only if they wish, or chose to be a battlers like some wish, that is why some people chose to play online games but yet not party.


For one I am not a troll... Second if they don't have time to party, which is really takes the same amount of time, then they shouldn't complain when multiplayer stuff gets fixed and solo gets nerfed in a multiplayer game. It doesn't make sense. And just because I don't agree with someone does not mean I'm a troll...

Shezard wrote:
djm6007 wrote:
Shezard wrote:
Lol...people get used to rate down Corny it seems xD

But non the less this is a valid concern. I personally don't care for solo SP, if Party SP is working. But meh, there are others who don't like PTing so it shouldn't be even "harder"(time consuming) to grind solo, as it already is.


Then the people who don't like to party shouldn't be playing a multiplayer game.


I'd agree on that, but grinding solo should still be viable(though I think it should be slower than PT SP), cause sometimes even I would just go out killing some stuff for SP right at that moment, then wait for a PT. But overall I'd prefer FFXI lvling style(pre Abyssea etc.) over any other kind of lvling. My Main Class is already done for now, so I would have to wait for a Rank cap increase before I could PT with him, but my 2nd class is way away from 50, so I'll have my fun grinding him in PTs :D


I don't think they are really nerfing it. It seems more common sense that weaker mobs should give you smaller rewards.
#20cornyboob, Posted: Feb 02 2011 at 4:24 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) So solo playing mages deserve to be nerfed but solo playing melee deserve to be rewarded?
#21 Feb 02 2011 at 4:25 PM Rating: Default
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djm6007 wrote:
LillithaFenimore wrote:
djm6007 wrote:
Shezard wrote:
Lol...people get used to rate down Corny it seems xD

But non the less this is a valid concern. I personally don't care for solo SP, if Party SP is working. But meh, there are others who don't like PTing so it shouldn't be even "harder"(time consuming) to grind solo, as it already is.


Then the people who don't like to party shouldn't be playing a multiplayer game.



And this is where my post comes in...

Dear troll, the reason why some don't like to party is because they don't have time, yet they still wish to play a game that offers them a character they can physically create to suit their taste, chose to do a number of crafts only if they wish, or chose to be a battlers like some wish, that is why some people chose to play online games but yet not party.


For one I am not a troll... Second if they don't have time to party, which is really takes the same amount of time, then they shouldn't complain when multiplayer stuff gets fixed and solo gets nerfed in a multiplayer game. It doesn't make sense. And just because I don't agree with someone does not mean I'm a troll...

Shezard wrote:
djm6007 wrote:
Shezard wrote:
Lol...people get used to rate down Corny it seems xD

But non the less this is a valid concern. I personally don't care for solo SP, if Party SP is working. But meh, there are others who don't like PTing so it shouldn't be even "harder"(time consuming) to grind solo, as it already is.


Then the people who don't like to party shouldn't be playing a multiplayer game.


I'd agree on that, but grinding solo should still be viable(though I think it should be slower than PT SP), cause sometimes even I would just go out killing some stuff for SP right at that moment, then wait for a PT. But overall I'd prefer FFXI lvling style(pre Abyssea etc.) over any other kind of lvling. My Main Class is already done for now, so I would have to wait for a Rank cap increase before I could PT with him, but my 2nd class is way away from 50, so I'll have my fun grinding him in PTs :D


I don't think they are really nerfing it. It seems more common sense that weaker mobs should give you smaller rewards.



You are right, disagreeing with someone doesn't make you a troll, sounding like a jerk does. You don't have to say what you said in your first post. It's rude. There are those out there who have higher priorities that do not allow them to game as heavily as you do. They game to GET A BREAK from what they are doing IRL. Just because they don't have time, doesn't mean they should be opted out of an MMO.
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#22 Feb 02 2011 at 4:28 PM Rating: Good
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I wasn't coming off "rude". Just because you cry when someone says something you don't agree with doesn't mean they are a troll/rude. You should grow up and not start some stupid argument over nothing. I wanted to contribute to this thread with my opinion and I see its not accepted by you two.

Sorry corny if I came off rude. I wasn't meaning to hurt your feeling. I was just giving my 2 cents.
#23 Feb 02 2011 at 4:28 PM Rating: Decent
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kill solo, reinstate PT battles, cool! i think the devs are looking at what DID work in FFXI (PT based leveling) and trying to leverage that. If you played any other MMO's during the FFXI days, you know FFXI group leveling (no soloing) was unique. It always made me come back :)
#24 Feb 02 2011 at 4:32 PM Rating: Decent
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djm6007 wrote:
I wasn't coming off "rude". Just because you cry when someone says something you don't agree with doesn't mean they are a troll/rude. You should grow up and not start some stupid argument over nothing. I wanted to contribute to this thread with my opinion and I see its not accepted by you two.

Sorry corny if I came off rude. I wasn't meaning to hurt your feeling. I was just giving my 2 cents.


To you you were not coming off as rude, but to some you are. When typing messages you should be thoughtful with your words. The way people pick up on tones in writing in through word usage. Sucks, but that's just how it works. If don't want to be seen as rude, pick better wording.

And I'm not crying. I disagree with many, but we all manage to respect each others POV's without coming across as condescending.
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#25 Feb 02 2011 at 4:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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cornyboob wrote:
Casual solo players should not be exponentially penalized for paying for a game they want to lvoe and play. If they choose to help you then they will. If they want to party they will. If they dont they should still be able to play at a pace that is not prohibitivly slower then everyone else who is blessed with a good time schedule and opportunities to get in large groups on a regular basis.


But this doesn't make sense on the most fundamental of levels. How can you expect for Player X and Player Y to be at the same point at the end of the week if Player X spent 20 hours playing, while Player Y only spent 4.5 hours playing? 20 will never equal 4.5, and any attempts to do so will be inherently unfair to Player X who put in 20 hours worth of work. It think at best it's naive to expect the two players to be able to achieve the same results with such a disparity in playtime. Player Y isn't leveling at a prohibitivly slower pace than Player X because of a game mechanic (party vs. solo play). He's leveling slower because he unfortunately isn't "blessed with a good time schedule." Such is life. It's unfair and unequal.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 5:38pm by Elswick78
#26 Feb 02 2011 at 4:33 PM Rating: Excellent
1. Corny... good post and well written for a change... rate up. Sorry I could only get you from default to decent. (it's not personal, and please don't use my post to fuel a debate... but you have a habit of posts that are written in a manner which incites flaming even if you don't mean it).

2. As a semi-casual (my new definaition for myself) player, I have between 2 and 6 hours during the week without holidays to dedicate to the game. If I'm lucky I can nail a single full day on the weekend. I would love for there to be meaningful party play, I am adverse to the large party format... 6-8 is plenty... I don't have the skill or patience for 15. Large parties being the only successful parties would guarantee I never play a healing class.

Having said that, and some may get upset at this... Party play should be the fastest way to gain SP. IMO Leves should be the most efficient solo SP gain. The ultimate fix in my view is to make non-leve Solo viable compared to XI, but make party non-leve on par or above XI's gains BUT require skill and planning for max benefits. Also Maybe not punish people for going above say an 8 person PT, but don't offer further bonuses beyond that. Then WE can decide how many people will be in our groups.

As a primarily solo person I want to make progress, on nights when I have a few hours to play I'd like to progress even though my leves are burned up.

As a person who has the occasional single chance at a long term party, I want to form that party quickly and benefit from it. 15 member optimal parties will not net that result.

As a person in a large LS, I WANT to be able to include as many people in my adventures as possibly... when there are enough people online in my area to do so...

It's a very skinny rope SE has to walk. Ultimately even though I will mainly be solo I'd prefer stronger Party mechanics than solo as long as solo offers the opportunity even slightly less painfully than XI did.
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#27 Feb 02 2011 at 4:36 PM Rating: Good
Elswick78 wrote:
But this doesn't make sense on the most fundamental of levels. How can you expect for Player X and Player Y to be at the same point at the end of the week if Player X spent 20 hours playing, while Player Y only spent 4.5 hours playing? 20 will never equal 4.5, and any attempts to do so will be inherently unfair to Player X who put in 20 hours worth of work.


That's the thing 20 hours -can- equal 4.5 hours. It is called: 'maximizing efficiency'. No one ever said it was fair, and someone is almost always left out.
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#28 Feb 02 2011 at 4:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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cornyboob wrote:
So solo playing mages deserve to be nerfed but solo playing melee deserve to be rewarded?

Sure nothing in life is ever fair but its like class warfare.



I don't know about you, but I feel pretty strong as a mage in this game. Sacrifice II, Siphon MP and Profundity + second tier nukes usually deals with any situation for me. I don't feel 'squishy' and don't think that should really be an issue with this update.
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#29 Feb 02 2011 at 4:39 PM Rating: Decent
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LillithaFenimore wrote:

You are right, disagreeing with someone doesn't make you a troll, sounding like a jerk does. You don't have to say what you said in your first post. It's rude. There are those out there who have higher priorities that do not allow them to game as heavily as you do. They game to GET A BREAK from what they are doing IRL. Just because they don't have time, doesn't mean they should be opted out of an MMO.


Overall I'd agree on that, but on the other hand...MMOs are what they are...Massively Multi Player Games. That's why I play them, I like playing with others, I like to do things with others, hence why I play MMOs.
So for me personal...MMOs should be made and cater towards people enjoying that kind of games and that kind of playstyle. MMORPG in specific are made to last for a long time, if not forever. For that purpose they need content and they need "goals" players can strife for and take a long time to achieve.

Let's take the example of a relic weapon in FFXI...I never got mine finished til I quit FFXI, but I'd totally welcome something similiar to FFXIV. Players with not much time, ergo won't ever get something like a relic weapon, tend to "demand" a change in the game, that allows them to get this stuff as well while playing solo. But sorry...this is where I don't agree.

I think there should be a viable niche for players not having much time to invest in an MMO, but at the same time, MMOs are made for players with much time who can invest it into the MMO and this is how content should be designed for an MMO. Give people that play solo, or don't have the time to do much a reasonable amout of content, but still focus on Group and Multiplayer content, cause that's what the game is about and that's how it should be.

Another simple example...I personally would love to paraglide...but I can't, I lack the money for it...does that give me the right to demand money from banks, or whatever so I could, when obviously it is restricted to people who have the money to do it? No...and I don't brag about it...it might not be fair, but that's how it is and you have to deal with it.

I dislike sports game like extremely...I don't touch any at all...but I won't start telling EA or whoever develops them to change the game so I WOULD play it...it is made for players who like to play sports games and as long as they are happy with it, who am I to say it is wrong?
#30 Feb 02 2011 at 4:41 PM Rating: Decent
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#31 Feb 02 2011 at 4:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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If the change is well-balanced then Solo will be the same SP rate as before, but the optimal targets will increase from blue/green to green/yellow.

I found griding solo on yellows to be faster SP already, so I expect soloing will only be faster.

In reality, good soloing depends on a number of factors including mob defense and HP, your own damage rate, mob elemental weaknesses, how many hits it takes to kill a mob, your own defense vs. mob attack level, how much damage you sustain that needs to be healed, mob density for a given area and if nearby mobs will alow for AoE skills to be used. For mages the distance to a nearby Aetheryte may factor in. Many, many factors.

For one mob and area yes, for another no. For one class maybe, for another surely not. I doubt a blanket statement can be applied.
#32 Feb 02 2011 at 4:46 PM Rating: Good
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Sphene Doblyn was like, orange to r46. Sooooo Doblyn still best source of solo SP, may even be better than before. Stop picking on weak Doblyn and fight Doblyn your same size, ya? :P
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#33 Feb 02 2011 at 4:47 PM Rating: Good
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PerrinofSylph, ****** Superhero wrote:
Having said that, and some may get upset at this... Party play should be the fastest way to gain SP. IMO Leves should be the most efficient solo SP gain. The ultimate fix in my view is to make non-leve Solo viable compared to XI, but make party non-leve on par or above XI's gains BUT require skill and planning for max benefits. Also Maybe not punish people for going above say an 8 person PT, but don't offer further bonuses beyond that. Then WE can decide how many people will be in our groups.



I agree that people who work with each other should get the better rewards. Its part of a MMO.

I can see why some people that does not have much time play a MMO just for solo, but they shouldn't complain when people who work with eachother gets better rewards. Its like sports. You get much farther if you work together than going solo.
#34 Feb 02 2011 at 4:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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I agree with alot of what perrino said, the thing I liked most about ffxi was that it forced parties on you pretty early on if you wanted to have any meaningful progress, I'm hoping that SE can find a balance between party and solo but I agree that parties should be the most rewarding for the time invested. But I also was a bit concerned when I saw the update notes mentioning reduced sp for mobs lower than we are.

What I am hoping this means is that we will no longer see level 42 conjurers killing the same puks that are green to my 28 gladiator. I'm hoping it just means that sp gains taper down quicker, I'm dreading the thought that green mobs that used to give 100sp might now give significantly less.

I am actually more concerned about the note about altering the sp gains from 20-24. This screams so much of a bad attempt at controlling growth. It says that SE knows the sp gain post 20 is absurd... but they don't plan on fixing it, they are just slowly letting us progress until they are ready to let everyone gain skill at a natural pace.





Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 5:49pm by F3rth
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#35 Feb 02 2011 at 4:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
Elswick78 wrote:
But this doesn't make sense on the most fundamental of levels. How can you expect for Player X and Player Y to be at the same point at the end of the week if Player X spent 20 hours playing, while Player Y only spent 4.5 hours playing? 20 will never equal 4.5, and any attempts to do so will be inherently unfair to Player X who put in 20 hours worth of work.


That's the thing 20 hours -can- equal 4.5 hours. It is called: 'maximizing efficiency'. No one ever said it was fair, and someone is almost always left out.


I'm not trying to start a fight or split hairs, but for the 20 to equal the 4.5 it makes the assumption that the player who is playing for 20 hours is playing in an inefficient manner. If he ever makes the switch to the "maximum efficiency" you refer to, POOF. 20 no longer equals 4.5, and he's way ahead again.

As you said, someone is always left out. In a game where the most basic premise is interacting with others around the world, the most natural selection is for those who choose to play alone to be the ones who are left out. This is the decision SE has made in giving preference to group play over solo play. It doesn't make soloers the "scourge of the earth". It just means that they're never going to be able to keep up with those who choose to group.

I think the underlying problem in these forums is that people have, at least in their minds, begun to use "casual friendly" and "solo" interchangeably. In my opinion, this is incorrect. "Solo" means you don't want to play with anyone else, be it for 4.5 hours per week or 20 hours per week. "Casual friendly" means that you are able to accomplish just as much per hour in your 4.5 hours as I am per hour in my 20 hours. The key is for SE to come up with a solution which allows casual players to accomplish things at the same rate which hardcore players accomplish them. The hardcore will accomplish more overall, but both groups will accomplish things at the same rate. This has nothing to do with party vs. solo play. They are completely unrelated.
#36 Feb 02 2011 at 4:54 PM Rating: Good
Elswick78 wrote:
Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
Elswick78 wrote:
But this doesn't make sense on the most fundamental of levels. How can you expect for Player X and Player Y to be at the same point at the end of the week if Player X spent 20 hours playing, while Player Y only spent 4.5 hours playing? 20 will never equal 4.5, and any attempts to do so will be inherently unfair to Player X who put in 20 hours worth of work.


That's the thing 20 hours -can- equal 4.5 hours. It is called: 'maximizing efficiency'. No one ever said it was fair, and someone is almost always left out.


I'm not trying to start a fight or split hairs, but for the 20 to equal the 4.5 it makes the assumption that the player who is playing for 20 hours is playing in an inefficient manner. If he ever makes the switch to the "maximum efficiency" you refer to, POOF. 20 no longer equals 4.5, and he's way ahead again.

As you said, someone is always left out. In a game where the most basic premise is interacting with others around the world, the most natural selection is for those who choose to play alone to be the ones who are left out. This is the decision SE has made in giving preference to group play over solo play. It doesn't make soloers the "scourge of the earth". It just means that they're never going to be able to keep up with those who choose to group.

I think the underlying problem in these forums is that people have, at least in their minds, begun to use "casual friendly" and "solo" interchangeably. In my opinion, this is incorrect. "Solo" means you don't want to play with anyone else, be it for 4.5 hours per week or 20 hours per week. "Casual friendly" means that you are able to accomplish just as much per hour in your 4.5 hours as I am per hour in my 20 hours. The key is for SE to come up with a solution which allows casual players to accomplish things at the same rate which hardcore players accomplish them. The hardcore will accomplish more overall, but both groups will accomplish things at the same rate. This has nothing to do with party vs. solo play. They are completely unrelated.


^This.

Solo vs. Party isn't a bad thing. If you choose to solo fine, np. But if I choose to coordinate with a group to efficiently take out monsters that offer a higher sp gain because of my efforts, don't make me into someone that thinks soloing is for noobs, or people that are socially dysfunctional. When I played FFXI I soloed MNK to 75 with no subjob just because I liked the change of pace. I did it on a mule because to be honest I never wanted to use it in a PT or endgame... It took forever, but it was just something to do.
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#37 Feb 02 2011 at 4:57 PM Rating: Decent
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I view relying on others a sign of weakness.
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#38 Feb 02 2011 at 4:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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LyleVertigo wrote:
I view relying on others a sign of weakness.


o.O well, I view the camaraderie of party play to be satisfying and enjoyable. When I play MMOs I enjoy taking a support role, enhancing the party experience will surely make this possible for me.
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#39 Feb 02 2011 at 5:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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82 posts
LyleVertigo wrote:
I view relying on others a sign of weakness.


Now THIS is the appropriate place for the various "quit playing an MMO" comments.
#40 Feb 02 2011 at 5:00 PM Rating: Decent
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djm6007 wrote:
PerrinofSylph, ****** Superhero wrote:
Having said that, and some may get upset at this... Party play should be the fastest way to gain SP. IMO Leves should be the most efficient solo SP gain. The ultimate fix in my view is to make non-leve Solo viable compared to XI, but make party non-leve on par or above XI's gains BUT require skill and planning for max benefits. Also Maybe not punish people for going above say an 8 person PT, but don't offer further bonuses beyond that. Then WE can decide how many people will be in our groups.



I agree that people who work with each other should get the better rewards. Its part of a MMO.

I can see why some people that does not have much time play a MMO just for solo, but they shouldn't complain when people who work with eachother gets better rewards. Its like sports. You get much farther if you work together than going solo.



Thank you for thoughtfully chosing your words :).

But yes, party p lay should be rewarded more exp. I know I am someone who likes to duo with my hubby, we are worried that we won't be able to progress through the story because of changes. I am hoping I can still team up with him, level at our place, and still go through the story line w/o problems.
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#41 Feb 02 2011 at 5:03 PM Rating: Default
LyleVertigo wrote:
I view relying on others a sign of weakness.


Post a video on YouTube of you soloing one of the NMs and post a link. ;)
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#42 Feb 02 2011 at 5:05 PM Rating: Decent
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1,608 posts
Elswick78 wrote:
LyleVertigo wrote:
I view relying on others a sign of weakness.


Now THIS is the appropriate place for the various "quit playing an MMO" comments.


I bet your butthurt feelings are due to mooching off your fellow players XD (aka sandwitch.....shiet, what did that once guy call it?)

One can still interact and socialize with others and enjoy an MMO environment without having to be forced to party with them.
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#43 Feb 02 2011 at 5:07 PM Rating: Default
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Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
LyleVertigo wrote:
I view relying on others a sign of weakness.


Post a video on YouTube of you soloing one of the NMs and post a link. ;)


Until they release something impossible to solo and worth killing then I'd find resources to accomplish it.

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#44 Feb 02 2011 at 5:09 PM Rating: Excellent
So -relying- on others is weakness. But it's -okay- to -use- someone to accomplish your goal? Seems a bit...odd.
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#45 Feb 02 2011 at 5:09 PM Rating: Good
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82 posts
LyleVertigo wrote:
Elswick78 wrote:
LyleVertigo wrote:
I view relying on others a sign of weakness.


Now THIS is the appropriate place for the various "quit playing an MMO" comments.


I bet your butthurt feelings are due to mooching off your fellow players XD (aka sandwitch.....shiet, what did that once guy call it?)

One can still interact and socialize with others and enjoy an MMO environment without having to be forced to party with them.


I'll ignore the first part on the basis of childishness, but I'll address the second part. I see from your signature that you have a rather high-level craft. Unless you farmed EVERY SINGLE ONE of your crystals/shards, farmed EVERY SINGLE ONE of your mats, and sold EVERY SINGLE ONE of your synths to an NPC, you have in fact relied on another. I could make this list much longer and more encompassing, but you get the picture. This is why we refer to this genre as "multiplayer".
#46 Feb 02 2011 at 5:11 PM Rating: Decent
LyleVertigo wrote:
I view relying on others a sign of weakness.


I view you not resisting to post the majority of the time as a sign of weakness... Corny often means well but doesn't format his posts properly to convey it... and he gets rated down constantly. You have yet to post anything that I can make sense of... but yet your posts don't start at default yet even though they almost always end up there.... at least when it comes to the XIV forums.
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#47 Feb 02 2011 at 5:11 PM Rating: Decent
Elswick78 wrote:
LyleVertigo wrote:
Elswick78 wrote:
LyleVertigo wrote:
I view relying on others a sign of weakness.


Now THIS is the appropriate place for the various "quit playing an MMO" comments.


I bet your butthurt feelings are due to mooching off your fellow players XD (aka sandwitch.....shiet, what did that once guy call it?)

One can still interact and socialize with others and enjoy an MMO environment without having to be forced to party with them.


I'll ignore the first part on the basis of childishness, but I'll address the second part. I see from your signature that you have a rather high-level craft. Unless you farmed EVERY SINGLE ONE of your crystals/shards, farmed EVERY SINGLE ONE of your mats, and sold EVERY SINGLE ONE of your synths to an NPC, you have in fact relied on another. I could make this list much longer and more encompassing, but you get the picture. This is why we refer to this genre as "multiplayer".


In the words of the great Elzar... "Bam!"
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#48 Feb 02 2011 at 5:13 PM Rating: Default
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1,608 posts
Elswick78 wrote:
LyleVertigo wrote:
Elswick78 wrote:
LyleVertigo wrote:
I view relying on others a sign of weakness.


Now THIS is the appropriate place for the various "quit playing an MMO" comments.


I bet your butthurt feelings are due to mooching off your fellow players XD (aka sandwitch.....shiet, what did that once guy call it?)

One can still interact and socialize with others and enjoy an MMO environment without having to be forced to party with them.


I'll ignore the first part on the basis of childishness, but I'll address the second part. I see from your signature that you have a rather high-level craft. Unless you farmed EVERY SINGLE ONE of your crystals/shards, farmed EVERY SINGLE ONE of your mats, and sold EVERY SINGLE ONE of your synths to an NPC, you have in fact relied on another. I could make this list much longer and more encompassing, but you get the picture. This is why we refer to this genre as "multiplayer".


Funny, that's exactly what I've done. Someone buying your goods is not reliance when it is in great abundance and easily obtainable by other means.
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#49 Feb 02 2011 at 5:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Zomg changes! Must be bad! And I am out of tinfoil!
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#50 Feb 02 2011 at 5:16 PM Rating: Excellent
Tankue wrote:
Zomg changes! Must be bad! And I am out of tinfoil!


*Carefully pulls out tinfoil from satchel...*
I have some! :D
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#51 Feb 02 2011 at 5:16 PM Rating: Decent
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1,608 posts
PerrinofSylph, ****** Superhero wrote:
LyleVertigo wrote:
I view relying on others a sign of weakness.


I view you not resisting to post the majority of the time as a sign of weakness... Corny often means well but doesn't format his posts properly to convey it... and he gets rated down constantly. You have yet to post anything that I can make sense of... but yet your posts don't start at default yet even though they almost always end up there.... at least when it comes to the XIV forums.


You mistake me for someone who cares about the broken lolkarma system.
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