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How significant are the SP/XP changes?Follow

#1 Feb 02 2011 at 4:38 PM Rating: Default
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I'm anxious to hear about the results of the patch, specifically these two parts:

Quote:
*Party bonuses have been adjusted to award larger amounts of skill and experience points based on party size.

*Defeating an enemy of a higher rank than oneself now awards more skill and experience points, while defeating lower rank enemies yields less skill and experience points.


These are some critical changes if they've been done correctly. While I'm still expecting a lot of important changes to the battle system, this game could automatically be 100% better if they've actually made killing challenging monsters with a party REWARDING. This was one of the critical game design mistakes of XIV (and XI as well)-- you were rewarded with faster progression by killing lots of weaklings, rather than for endangering yourself with a challenge. Add to that further incentive to party, and it sounds perfect on paper.

But color me jade, I'm not going to celebrate yet. I haven't been playing the game, so I'm hoping to hear about the actual differences from players. Are these changes enough to encourage more partying, and more importantly, are they enough that killing stronger monsters is more rewarding than weaker ones, and to what degree (i.e., are they about the same, or is one clearly better)?


Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 2:57pm by Kachi
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#2 Feb 02 2011 at 4:40 PM Rating: Decent
No offense OP, but how many threads about sp do we need?

Seems kind if redundant to ask these questions -again- that are asked in two other threads.
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#3 Feb 02 2011 at 4:41 PM Rating: Good
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Well, a challenge doesn't have to be a gigantic dragon that costs lives and takes awhile to kill, (just for example) it's just not efficient. In FFXI we partied on things we might not be able to kill on our own, but could take down quickly as a group for good and fast exp. I enjoyed that dynamic, and I hope it works out here.
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#4 Feb 02 2011 at 4:43 PM Rating: Decent
olaurelindorenan wrote:
Well, a challenge doesn't have to be a gigantic dragon that costs lives and takes awhile to kill, (just for example) it's just not efficient. In FFXI we partied on things we might not be able to kill on our own, but could take down quickly as a group for good and fast exp. I enjoyed that dynamic, and I hope it works out here.


Oh well another thread gives me another thing to do... *sighs* lol

Yes this is true, no one is saying we have to grind on NMs... lol *cough* but finding the easiest mobs to grind on for the best sp will definitely be the idea... this means *low hp* *no stupid pt breaking ws's* etc...

(edit: oh noes defaulted >< *begs for forgiveness*)

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 6:00pm by StateAlchemist2
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#5 Feb 02 2011 at 4:45 PM Rating: Good
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Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
No offense OP, but how many threads about sp do we need?

Seems kind if redundant to ask these questions -again- that are asked in two other threads.


Awww, can't we have just one more pleeeeeease???!!??
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#6 Feb 02 2011 at 4:50 PM Rating: Decent
Spyrit178 wrote:
Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
No offense OP, but how many threads about sp do we need?

Seems kind if redundant to ask these questions -again- that are asked in two other threads.


Awww, can't we have just one more pleeeeeease???!!??


I would make another one, but I don't wanna get in trouble. lmao

(blast double defaulted >< bad thread for me i guess... D: )

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 6:00pm by StateAlchemist2
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#7 Feb 02 2011 at 4:51 PM Rating: Decent
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heh.
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#8 Feb 02 2011 at 4:52 PM Rating: Decent
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I wonder if anyone took notes on what SP certain mobs gave yesterday? An actual comparison would be great.

Example: At Rank 22 the yellow Iron Coblyns gave ~80 SP each. The red ones gave about ~90. Also at Rank 22, the blue Lead Coblyns gave about 40~60 SP. (But that is form memory, which is not my strong point.) I plan to go back and see what the values are now.

Surely someone out there was soloing just yesterday and has a more exact record of what the changes are.
#9 Feb 02 2011 at 4:53 PM Rating: Decent
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don't worry, I'm sure in about 8 minutes everyone will sign on and a mass of new threads will be posted, burying all these speculation threads. ^^
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#10 Feb 02 2011 at 4:53 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
No offense OP, but how many threads about sp do we need?


I only see 3, and neither of the other two are about the same thing as this thread.

Quote:
but finding the easiest mobs to grind on for the best sp will definitely be the idea... this means *low hp* *no stupid pt breaking ws's* etc...


Quote:
Well, a challenge doesn't have to be a gigantic dragon that costs lives and takes awhile to kill, (just for example) it's just not efficient.


But see, this is not an inevitability-- this is up to the developers. They can make it so that killing an IT++++ gives 10000xp/sp, while killing a regular IT gives 500xp/sp. They couldn't do this in FFXI because they capped xp at 200-300, but afaik they haven't done this in FFXIV. I'm sure they won't make the system that flexible, but I'm wondering if the system rewards you for defeating the hardest monster you possibly can in terms of time:xp/sp.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#11 Feb 02 2011 at 4:58 PM Rating: Default
Kachi wrote:
Quote:
No offense OP, but how many threads about sp do we need?


I only see 3, and neither of the other two are about the same thing as this thread.

Quote:
but finding the easiest mobs to grind on for the best sp will definitely be the idea... this means *low hp* *no stupid pt breaking ws's* etc...


Quote:
Well, a challenge doesn't have to be a gigantic dragon that costs lives and takes awhile to kill, (just for example) it's just not efficient.


But see, this is not an inevitability-- this is up to the developers. They can make it so that killing an IT++++ gives 10000xp/sp, while killing a regular IT gives 500xp/sp. They couldn't do this in FFXI because they capped xp at 200-300, but afaik they haven't done this in FFXIV. I'm sure they won't make the system that flexible, but I'm wondering if the system rewards you for defeating the hardest monster you possibly can in terms of time:xp/sp.


Sorry, didnt mean so much this exact aspect, but pretty much everything is being thrown around in the other two, at least this one isnt infested by our favorite sub-default poster. :)

Back OT... You could get more than 200-300 sp by chaining monsters, further rewarding an efficient party. THen of course they added signet style stuff to add further xp bonuses. If you throw in xp rings.. I was in a Qufim Island burn PT getting 750xp / kill.

EDIT: WHile I dont think we will see a -huge- (500 a mob) sp jump i am guessing that PTs will now become the dominate form of leveling.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 6:02pm by StateAlchemist2
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#12 Feb 02 2011 at 5:08 PM Rating: Good
I thought SP was capped at 500 per mob a while back, but I might be mistaken.
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#13 Feb 02 2011 at 5:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Yabusame the Wise wrote:
I thought SP was capped at 500 per mob a while back, but I might be mistaken.

it was back before the SP changes

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 3:11pm by Vedis
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#14 Feb 02 2011 at 5:13 PM Rating: Good
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Yabusame the Wise wrote:
I thought SP was capped at 500 per mob a while back, but I might be mistaken.

That cap has been gone since Nov. Ive got 7xx off mobs on leve quests, before the Nov patch that would have been impossible.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 6:13pm by Jefro420
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#15 Feb 02 2011 at 5:17 PM Rating: Decent
I don't think Guardian's Favor counts towards the cap, kinda like the exp bonuses in FFXI.

Outside of a leve, I still haven't seen more than 500, but I may be mistaken.
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#16 Feb 02 2011 at 5:19 PM Rating: Default
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Molly Is right. I was leveling my archer the other day out of boredom, and with my phys level offset being where it is and my archer below 10, i was able to 4 star rank 10 camp, and whoa whoa wooey!!! 500 cap no longer exists
#17 Feb 02 2011 at 5:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Yabusame the Wise wrote:
I don't think Guardian's Favor counts towards the cap, kinda like the exp bonuses in FFXI.

Outside of a leve, I still haven't seen more than 500, but I may be mistaken.


GF counted towards the cap before Nov patch, very easy to spot because in leve you would be getting like 150-200 SP per proc then the final proc become two digit odd and you stop getting SP. The Nov-patch did away with the SP cap though.
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#18 Feb 02 2011 at 5:25 PM Rating: Default
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The cap seemed to have been bumped up to 1k sp a kill (split between sword and shield SP, tested removing shield and I was getting 550ish sp on sword). Didn't really play with it all that much though.
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#19 Feb 02 2011 at 5:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Tankue wrote:
The cap seemed to have been bumped up to 1k sp a kill (split between sword and shield SP, tested removing shield and I was getting 550ish sp on sword). Didn't really play with it all that much though.

my 7xx was just sword SP while my shield was equipped
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#20 Feb 06 2011 at 5:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Bump. Hoping someone can share their experiences with more challenging targets. i.e., how difficult are the targets for optimal xp/sp per hour? Is it still more efficient to kill weak mobs quickly, or is can you get comparable (or even better) xp/sp by targeting more challenging mobs?
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#21 Feb 06 2011 at 7:33 PM Rating: Default
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I love the now stupidly high sp/exp gains and will fully exploit the fact I can do a rank 10 craft for 3k exp and not have to even turn it in plus the leve gives me all the mats right at the counter most of the time! Plus like I said before I don't even need to turn it in just make the items get the crap load of exp/sp off it and wait till next reset and repeat thank you SE and please keep up the stupid ideas you come up with to try to make this game "better"

Edited, Feb 6th 2011 8:50pm by Rankin657

Edited, Feb 6th 2011 8:51pm by Rankin657
#22 Feb 06 2011 at 9:13 PM Rating: Good
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Just a sketchy experience:

Molting Miteling (14-10 levels lower) - 15 SP
Solo Quartz Coblyn (7-8 levels lower) - 50 SP
Solo Ravenous Billygoat (In Bluefog, approximately 2-3 levels lower) - 100 SP
Cockatrice in Bluefog (same level or 2 levels higher)- 150 SP to 200 SP
Party of 7 killing Mountain Peiste (1-5 levels higher) - lowest 150 SP highest 225 SP
Party of 7 killing Grass Raptor in Boulder Down (6-10 levels higher) - 279 SP
Party of 7 killing Sundrake outside Uldah (11-15 levels higher) - 374 SP
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#23 Feb 06 2011 at 10:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

Molting Miteling (14-10 levels lower) - 15 SP
Solo Quartz Coblyn (7-8 levels lower) - 50 SP
Solo Ravenous Billygoat (In Bluefog, approximately 2-3 levels lower) - 100 SP
Cockatrice in Bluefog (same level or 2 levels higher)- 150 SP to 200 SP
Party of 7 killing Mountain Peiste (1-5 levels higher) - lowest 150 SP highest 225 SP
Party of 7 killing Grass Raptor in Boulder Down (6-10 levels higher) - 279 SP
Party of 7 killing Sundrake outside Uldah (11-15 levels higher) - 374 SP


Thanks, that's the kind of info I was looking for. It seems like they're on the right track, but I imagine it's still inefficient to fight higher level monsters. At this point I'd like to see them scale back the overall gains a touch, and then give exponentially greater returns for higher level monsters. i.e., you're getting rewarded appropriately for those higher level monsters (more xp and sp per hour than for defeating less challenging monsters).
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#24 Feb 06 2011 at 10:30 PM Rating: Good
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I think the current SP scaling is already appropriate, since there's always the option of using Battle Regimen to speed up tough fight. However the main problem with fighting harder monster for greater SP/HR is the spawn rate. Raptor and Sundrake have much more potential for SP/HR but Mountain Peistes on the other hand just spawn so abundant that there are instance where you can find 7-8 humongous peiste crowded in a small spot like a pass. At the very least they are all tougher nut to crack and more efficient that loldoblyn.
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#25 Feb 06 2011 at 11:51 PM Rating: Default
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I think soloing is still too fast (if we don't think grouping is worth the hassle when compared to soloing, we won't do it). Nerfing coblyns should do the trick, however.
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#26 Feb 07 2011 at 7:14 AM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
I think soloing is still too fast (if we don't think grouping is worth the hassle when compared to soloing, we won't do it). Nerfing coblyns should do the trick, however.

That's insane, a group of 4 - 8 is much more efficient than soloing.
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#27 Feb 07 2011 at 7:29 AM Rating: Good
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Rankin657 wrote:
I love the now stupidly high sp/exp gains and will fully exploit the fact I can do a rank 10 craft for 3k exp and not have to even turn it in plus the leve gives me all the mats right at the counter most of the time! Plus like I said before I don't even need to turn it in just make the items get the crap load of exp/sp off it and wait till next reset and repeat thank you SE and please keep up the stupid ideas you come up with to try to make this game "better


Crafting really starts slowing down around rank 15 and leves can no longer fully support a craft if you want to level it at a respectable pace. I think it's a good idea to allow us to quickly reach rank 15 in crafting classes so we can repair the majority of gear up to rank 30. Getting a crafting class past rank 30 is still a huge grind since we can't party like combat classes.

Hyanmen wrote:
I think soloing is still too fast (if we don't think grouping is worth the hassle when compared to soloing, we won't do it). Nerfing coblyns should do the trick, however.


Again, soloing really starts slowing down after rank 25ish for combat classes. Leve-linking, behest, and plain old grinding become much more efficient.

I too think the SP/EXP fix is good. I don't see anything wrong with 1k+ SP solo at rank 10 since that disappears pretty quickly. Other games will hand you levels during tutorial quests, so slingshoting us into the teens is nothing new.
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