Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2 3 4
This Forum is Read Only

First Glance: Substantial SP gains!Follow

#1 Feb 02 2011 at 5:36 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
523 posts
It seems so far, in both solo AND group play, SP has quite a significant increase.

And a minor note: Looks like we have some new animations!

So far so good XD
#2 Feb 02 2011 at 5:38 PM Rating: Decent
****
9,526 posts
can't wait to get off work so I can check it out for myself
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#3 Feb 02 2011 at 5:39 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
48 posts
#4 Feb 02 2011 at 5:55 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
118 posts
I killed some yellow goats at r20 and got 350SP/kill. Green dodo's were 215ish.
#5 Feb 02 2011 at 5:57 PM Rating: Good
*
106 posts
Rank 33 on Necrologos Inferno, solo, 3 stars, with Guardian favor.
Before : 181sp/mob
After : 336sp/mob

(Ding 34!)

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 7:04pm by GenzaiKawakami
#6 Feb 02 2011 at 6:02 PM Rating: Decent
**
395 posts
We noticed the same thing today too Mog, this was a fantastic update.
____________________________

http://www.prismaticllama.com/
http://www.sologensystems.com
The Prismatic Llama - Peru's llamas got nothing on us.
#7 Feb 02 2011 at 6:02 PM Rating: Good
31 posts
Check out crafting. Getting 700 SP on some synths.
____________________________


#8 Feb 02 2011 at 6:06 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
515 posts
http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4d49ee8e89118b6a18004043.jpg

Was 270-340 SP before patch, 500-600+ now.


I don't know what I'm gonna do when everything's R50 tomorrow. I want to feel happy about this. I hope the majority of you are ._.
#9 Feb 02 2011 at 6:11 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
259 posts
This is retarded. 800sp gain for one craft? wow.
#10 Feb 02 2011 at 6:15 PM Rating: Default
**
415 posts
Hmm... maybe I'll log into XIV again this weekend instead of playing Bad Company 2 like I have the past 2 weeks.
#11TheonVenethiel, Posted: Feb 02 2011 at 6:16 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) wtf 600 sp with 1 craft? easymode wowish.
#12 Feb 02 2011 at 6:17 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
523 posts
In the old system I was shooting for like 10-13k an hour.

Seems now, the goal is 25k+

HUGE gains in SP from solo to party.

Thumbs up for me.
#13 Feb 02 2011 at 6:20 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
46 posts
Party grinding is still nothing to gush over, at least as an R40 killing raptors with 7 people. 176SP. I mean, it's better... but it seems like soloing coblyns is even better now hah.

EDIT: We just added someone and it went up to 200... hello 15 person party grinds?

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 7:22pm by SilkWyrm
#14 Feb 02 2011 at 6:21 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
523 posts
The fact that you get the same solo as in a group of 7 is good news in itself.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 7:21pm by DoctorMog
#15 Feb 02 2011 at 6:22 PM Rating: Good
****
9,526 posts
Also, it will take time to find the right balance between mob strength, party size and speed of kills
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#16 Feb 02 2011 at 6:24 PM Rating: Decent
*
69 posts
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Also, it will take time to find the right balance between mob strength, party size and speed of kills

Party size?

You get more sp in bigger partys,welcome to zergfests xD.
____________________________


#17 Feb 02 2011 at 6:24 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
I don't know what I'm gonna do when everything's R50 tomorrow. I want to feel happy about this. I hope the majority of you are ._.


That is a good point...
#18 Feb 02 2011 at 6:28 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
**
523 posts
When everyone gets a rank 50, they can work on getting useful skills from the other classes.

And by the time that is done, they will have more endgame content out?

I hope?

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 7:28pm by DoctorMog
#19 Feb 02 2011 at 6:29 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
46 posts
DoctorMog wrote:
The fact that you get the same solo as in a group of 7 is good news in itself.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 7:21pm by DoctorMog


Probably, but I'd rather there be an incentive to group. Hopefully it's in there somewhere...

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 7:32pm by SilkWyrm
#20 Feb 02 2011 at 6:31 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
DoctorMog wrote:
When everyone gets a rank 50, they can work on getting useful skills from the other classes.

And by the time that is done, they will have more endgame content out any endgame content at all?

I hope?

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 7:28pm by DoctorMog


FTFY Smiley: grin

I'm certainly not griping about making it easier to level, but I question what's going to happen if everyone rushes to the finish line only to discover that there's no celebratory party set up beyond a pat on the back and a handshake.

Still happy about the change though. I'll have to get on and see it for myself.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 7:33pm by Mikhalia
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#21 Feb 02 2011 at 6:35 PM Rating: Default
**
415 posts
I'm very happy with this. I can't play unless it's a weekend (school + work on weekdays ftl), so the 80-90 SP per kill was pretty depressing and actually seeing progress in BC2 was keeping my attention more than XIV was. Maybe now the tables will flip... also especially since I have all the guns in BC2 now.
#22 Feb 02 2011 at 6:38 PM Rating: Decent
Sage
*
55 posts
Playing devil's advocate here, but SP is way too fast. I actually enjoyed the grind in FFXI and felt it was an accomplishment whereas even with the previous SP system it wasn't that bad. Can see this being very WoW like allowing you to get your job maxed asap. And I am praying Dolbyn zerg group doesn't come to pass... Really hope they nerfed the SP on those, haven't been able to see.
____________________________

#23 Feb 02 2011 at 6:40 PM Rating: Good
***
1,608 posts
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
DoctorMog wrote:
When everyone gets a rank 50, they can work on getting useful skills from the other classes.

And by the time that is done, they will have more endgame content out any endgame content at all?

I hope?

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 7:28pm by DoctorMog


FTFY Smiley: grin

I'm certainly not griping about making it easier to level, but I question what's going to happen if everyone rushes to the finish line only to discover that there's no celebratory party set up beyond a pat on the back and a handshake.

Still happy about the change though. I'll have to get on and see it for myself.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 7:33pm by Mikhalia


The reward would be finally to get a good night sleep.
____________________________

#24 Feb 02 2011 at 6:45 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
**
259 posts
Jamaz wrote:
Playing devil's advocate here, but SP is way too fast. I actually enjoyed the grind in FFXI and felt it was an accomplishment whereas even with the previous SP system it wasn't that bad. Can see this being very WoW like allowing you to get your job maxed asap. And I am praying Dolbyn zerg group doesn't come to pass... Really hope they nerfed the SP on those, haven't been able to see.


This SP gain is waaaay too high. There is zero 'challenge' any more.

Also interesting that DoL didnt get any sort of SP 'buff' even though it was the slowest to level past 40.
#25 Feb 02 2011 at 6:45 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
**
523 posts
Jamaz wrote:
Playing devil's advocate here, but SP is way too fast. I actually enjoyed the grind in FFXI and felt it was an accomplishment whereas even with the previous SP system it wasn't that bad. Can see this being very WoW like allowing you to get your job maxed asap. And I am praying Dolbyn zerg group doesn't come to pass... Really hope they nerfed the SP on those, haven't been able to see.



Everyone complains SP is too slow.

Square Enix increases SP substantially.

Players complain SP is too fast.

Square Enix Decreases SP.

Rinse and repeat.
#26 Feb 02 2011 at 6:45 PM Rating: Default
**
415 posts
Jamaz wrote:
Playing devil's advocate here, but SP is way too fast. I actually enjoyed the grind in FFXI and felt it was an accomplishment whereas even with the previous SP system it wasn't that bad. Can see this being very WoW like allowing you to get your job maxed asap. And I am praying Dolbyn zerg group doesn't come to pass... Really hope they nerfed the SP on those, haven't been able to see.

I'm hearing of people getting 400 SP from Coblyns/Doblyns of their respective levels, so no.
#27 Feb 02 2011 at 6:46 PM Rating: Good
*
72 posts
I can finally level more jobs faster ;;.
#28 Feb 02 2011 at 6:46 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
46 posts
Well, I'm doing a leve atm with 6 people... 797 SP from one mongrel @ rank 40 lol.

EDIT: This is with 3 people linking on 3 stars btw.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 7:48pm by SilkWyrm
#29 Feb 02 2011 at 6:52 PM Rating: Excellent
Screenshot



lol

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 4:52pm by Osarion
#30 Feb 02 2011 at 6:53 PM Rating: Default
*
69 posts
LFMAO BBQWTF!

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 7:53pm by TheonVenethiel
____________________________


#31 Feb 02 2011 at 6:55 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
*****
12,702 posts
Sigmakan wrote:
Jamaz wrote:
Playing devil's advocate here, but SP is way too fast. I actually enjoyed the grind in FFXI and felt it was an accomplishment whereas even with the previous SP system it wasn't that bad. Can see this being very WoW like allowing you to get your job maxed asap. And I am praying Dolbyn zerg group doesn't come to pass... Really hope they nerfed the SP on those, haven't been able to see.


This SP gain is waaaay too high. There is zero 'challenge' any more.

Also interesting that DoL didnt get any sort of SP 'buff' even though it was the slowest to level past 40.


If by too high you mean just right? I agree.
____________________________

#32 Feb 02 2011 at 6:57 PM Rating: Decent
9 posts
Did a r20 behest as a r19 THM in a group of 3, 543 THM sp 608 shield.

Did dunesfolk as a r40 GLA in a group of 4, 1 star 2 links with GA. 745 a mob, Our conj who was r38 was getting 1k sp a mob O,O;; (so he says)

Also killed one of those scorpions and got 175 sp, time to grind mobs ?.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 7:58pm by RocknRolla
____________________________

#33 Feb 02 2011 at 7:00 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
259 posts
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
Sigmakan wrote:
Jamaz wrote:
Playing devil's advocate here, but SP is way too fast. I actually enjoyed the grind in FFXI and felt it was an accomplishment whereas even with the previous SP system it wasn't that bad. Can see this being very WoW like allowing you to get your job maxed asap. And I am praying Dolbyn zerg group doesn't come to pass... Really hope they nerfed the SP on those, haven't been able to see.


This SP gain is waaaay too high. There is zero 'challenge' any more.

Also interesting that DoL didnt get any sort of SP 'buff' even though it was the slowest to level past 40.


If by too high you mean just right? I agree.


Naw I mean too high. When everyone is R50 next week and there isnt any content it'll be interesting to see how the mood changes here.
#34 Feb 02 2011 at 7:04 PM Rating: Decent
9 posts
SoumaKyou wrote:
Jamaz wrote:
Playing devil's advocate here, but SP is way too fast. I actually enjoyed the grind in FFXI and felt it was an accomplishment whereas even with the previous SP system it wasn't that bad. Can see this being very WoW like allowing you to get your job maxed asap. And I am praying Dolbyn zerg group doesn't come to pass... Really hope they nerfed the SP on those, haven't been able to see.

I'm hearing of people getting 400 SP from Coblyns/Doblyns of their respective levels, so no.


You know 50 isn't the cap, it'll probably be raised come the first expansion. Even still the grind to 50 is/was way too steep because you need to have near enough every class ranked up to at least 20.
____________________________

#35 Feb 02 2011 at 7:25 PM Rating: Default
Avatar
*****
12,702 posts
Sigmakan wrote:
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
Sigmakan wrote:
Jamaz wrote:
Playing devil's advocate here, but SP is way too fast. I actually enjoyed the grind in FFXI and felt it was an accomplishment whereas even with the previous SP system it wasn't that bad. Can see this being very WoW like allowing you to get your job maxed asap. And I am praying Dolbyn zerg group doesn't come to pass... Really hope they nerfed the SP on those, haven't been able to see.


This SP gain is waaaay too high. There is zero 'challenge' any more.

Also interesting that DoL didnt get any sort of SP 'buff' even though it was the slowest to level past 40.


If by too high you mean just right? I agree.


Naw I mean too high. When everyone is R50 next week and there isnt any content it'll be interesting to see how the mood changes here.


Surplus/Bonus/Fatigue will hit most people a lot sooner than that. People already know there isn't end-game content yet so I doubt it will change anything.
____________________________

#36 Feb 02 2011 at 7:38 PM Rating: Good
I just completed the first camp of a leve party (out of 3) and gained 40k in about an hour.

I wonder if they adjusted surplus as well to reflect the higher exp gains.
____________________________
#37 Feb 02 2011 at 7:42 PM Rating: Excellent
Yabusame the Wise wrote:
I just completed the first camp of a leve party (out of 3) and gained 40k in about an hour.

I wonder if they adjusted surplus as well to reflect the higher exp gains.



I doubt it, lol.
#38 Feb 02 2011 at 7:45 PM Rating: Excellent
*
56 posts
FSH34 and fishing at grade 5 usually got me 130~150 SP per catch before this patch, now I'm getting 230~260 SP. And double the EXP to boot.

Not seeing crazy BTN SP yet, but I'm chopping at the grade I'm "supposed" to be, not higher.
____________________________
[ffxisig]199910[/ffxisig]
#39 Feb 02 2011 at 7:50 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
**
259 posts
FiskStillman wrote:
FSH34 and fishing at grade 5 usually got me 130~150 SP per catch before this patch, now I'm getting 230~260 SP. And double the EXP to boot.

Not seeing crazy BTN SP yet, but I'm chopping at the grade I'm "supposed" to be, not higher.


Was afraid of that. Getting same SP as 42miner on grade5 nodes. This whole SP adjustment is ridiculous. I've lost a lot of faith in these new devs.

Best way to get battle SP is have a lot of members and kill mbos that are higher rank than you. All grinding will now be behest-like. I thought we were trying to develop better party strategies. This is a big step in the wrong direction.
#40 Feb 02 2011 at 7:50 PM Rating: Good
Sage
***
1,675 posts
The irony is people are saying this is 'easy mode SP gain' when in fact fighting yellows or higher takes more skill (solo at least), it's just now we're being rewarded for it.

Before this fix, you realize there was no incentive to fight things yellow or higher.

So not only does this help solo peeps hone their skills but also groups as hopefully they will seek out high level camps not to zerg (something I think would need fixing) but to learn how to be skillful on red mobs.

If you just want to grind on coblyns you can do that too, just don't expect to go anywhere.

In any case it's still going to take a long time for a casual person (like myself to hit 50 on my PUG). Especially if fatigue sets in. Then I'd switch over to another class, as it's working as intended.

It really is a win win for everyone and I for one am glad that these fixes are here.

#41 Feb 02 2011 at 7:54 PM Rating: Excellent
*
56 posts
Sigmakan wrote:
FiskStillman wrote:
FSH34 and fishing at grade 5 usually got me 130~150 SP per catch before this patch, now I'm getting 230~260 SP. And double the EXP to boot.

Not seeing crazy BTN SP yet, but I'm chopping at the grade I'm "supposed" to be, not higher.


Was afraid of that. Getting same SP as 42miner on grade5 nodes. This whole SP adjustment is ridiculous. I've lost a lot of faith in these new devs.

Best way to get battle SP is have a lot of members and kill mbos that are higher rank than you. All grinding will now be behest-like. I thought we were trying to develop better party strategies. This is a big step in the wrong direction.


I forgot to mention, and maybe it's because of the faster animation that it feels this way, but I'm getting a lot more "no catches" at grade 5. But still, I gained a lot of experience in a short time. I'll try fishing at my proper grade 4 areas tomorrow to see.
____________________________
[ffxisig]199910[/ffxisig]
#42 Feb 02 2011 at 7:55 PM Rating: Excellent
**
266 posts
Sigmakan wrote:
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
Sigmakan wrote:
Jamaz wrote:
Playing devil's advocate here, but SP is way too fast. I actually enjoyed the grind in FFXI and felt it was an accomplishment whereas even with the previous SP system it wasn't that bad. Can see this being very WoW like allowing you to get your job maxed asap. And I am praying Dolbyn zerg group doesn't come to pass... Really hope they nerfed the SP on those, haven't been able to see.


This SP gain is waaaay too high. There is zero 'challenge' any more.

Also interesting that DoL didnt get any sort of SP 'buff' even though it was the slowest to level past 40.


If by too high you mean just right? I agree.


Naw I mean too high. When everyone is R50 next week and there isnt any content it'll be interesting to see how the mood changes here.

In ffxi you could level to 50 in one week then it took a long time to get to 75. Not to mention saying that everyone is going to hit 50 in a week is a gross over exaggeration. I don't see the problem here since there is going to be a rank cap raise in ffxiv.
#43 Feb 02 2011 at 7:57 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
259 posts
XenoKrates wrote:
Sigmakan wrote:
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
Sigmakan wrote:
Jamaz wrote:
Playing devil's advocate here, but SP is way too fast. I actually enjoyed the grind in FFXI and felt it was an accomplishment whereas even with the previous SP system it wasn't that bad. Can see this being very WoW like allowing you to get your job maxed asap. And I am praying Dolbyn zerg group doesn't come to pass... Really hope they nerfed the SP on those, haven't been able to see.


This SP gain is waaaay too high. There is zero 'challenge' any more.

Also interesting that DoL didnt get any sort of SP 'buff' even though it was the slowest to level past 40.


If by too high you mean just right? I agree.


Naw I mean too high. When everyone is R50 next week and there isnt any content it'll be interesting to see how the mood changes here.

In ffxi you could level to 50 in one week then it took a long time to get to 75. Not to mention saying that everyone is going to hit 50 in a week is a gross over exaggeration. I don't see the problem here since there is going to be a rank cap raise in ffxiv.


They made it much easier when the game was a few years old because there was actually content to do. As it is right now,in FFXIV, leveling your classes IS the majority of the content. By making that much much quicker to do, you take quite a bit from the game.

I'm all for making leveling easier, but only once there is a large amount of content. Everyone is going to get to 40+ fairly quickly now, and then what?
#44 Feb 02 2011 at 8:05 PM Rating: Good
**
266 posts
Sigmakan wrote:
XenoKrates wrote:
Sigmakan wrote:
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
Sigmakan wrote:
Jamaz wrote:
Playing devil's advocate here, but SP is way too fast. I actually enjoyed the grind in FFXI and felt it was an accomplishment whereas even with the previous SP system it wasn't that bad. Can see this being very WoW like allowing you to get your job maxed asap. And I am praying Dolbyn zerg group doesn't come to pass... Really hope they nerfed the SP on those, haven't been able to see.


This SP gain is waaaay too high. There is zero 'challenge' any more.

Also interesting that DoL didnt get any sort of SP 'buff' even though it was the slowest to level past 40.


If by too high you mean just right? I agree.


Naw I mean too high. When everyone is R50 next week and there isnt any content it'll be interesting to see how the mood changes here.

In ffxi you could level to 50 in one week then it took a long time to get to 75. Not to mention saying that everyone is going to hit 50 in a week is a gross over exaggeration. I don't see the problem here since there is going to be a rank cap raise in ffxiv.


They made it much easier when the game was a few years old because there was actually content to do. As it is right now,in FFXIV, leveling your classes IS the majority of the content. By making that much much quicker to do, you take quite a bit from the game.

I'm all for making leveling easier, but only once there is a large amount of content. Everyone is going to get to 40+ fairly quickly now, and then what?

They release an expansion with desirable end game content and raise the level cap.
#45 Feb 02 2011 at 8:05 PM Rating: Default
Avatar
*****
12,702 posts
Sigmakan wrote:
XenoKrates wrote:
Sigmakan wrote:
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
Sigmakan wrote:
Jamaz wrote:
Playing devil's advocate here, but SP is way too fast. I actually enjoyed the grind in FFXI and felt it was an accomplishment whereas even with the previous SP system it wasn't that bad. Can see this being very WoW like allowing you to get your job maxed asap. And I am praying Dolbyn zerg group doesn't come to pass... Really hope they nerfed the SP on those, haven't been able to see.


This SP gain is waaaay too high. There is zero 'challenge' any more.

Also interesting that DoL didnt get any sort of SP 'buff' even though it was the slowest to level past 40.


If by too high you mean just right? I agree.


Naw I mean too high. When everyone is R50 next week and there isnt any content it'll be interesting to see how the mood changes here.

In ffxi you could level to 50 in one week then it took a long time to get to 75. Not to mention saying that everyone is going to hit 50 in a week is a gross over exaggeration. I don't see the problem here since there is going to be a rank cap raise in ffxiv.


They made it much easier when the game was a few years old because there was actually content to do. As it is right now,in FFXIV, leveling your classes IS the majority of the content. By making that much much quicker to do, you take quite a bit from the game.

I'm all for making leveling easier, but only once there is a large amount of content. Everyone is going to get to 40+ fairly quickly now, and then what?


Based on the frequency of updates (2 a month, 1 being fixes/adjustments, 1 being content) it'll be fine because you will hit the fatigue wall sooner than you will hit rank 50. Also, most people who haven't done the story up till rank 50 will have that + the side missions to do while the content starts getting added as this patch was fixing some of the last things messed up with the game, now the rest will be content/further adjustments especially depending on what Yoshi-P wants to ask us in the next poll which is no doubt content related.
____________________________

#46 Feb 02 2011 at 8:08 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
259 posts
Have you hit surplus before? Its a 10% reduction in SP. Thats not going to slow anyone down lol
#47 Feb 02 2011 at 8:15 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,948 posts
For crafting, you can only get the bonus on synth higher than your rank. Synth your rank and lower is still the same, so in a sense you won't have to complain about people bot crafting/spamming standard for optimal SP now. Because, using abilities to synth recipe higher and way higher than you give much better SP now (approximately 50% more than before). And you dont have to worry people getting r50 too fast in crafting, just now for Goldsmith I only get 1 leve worth SP that is r45, for a killing 500-600 SP a synth; Carpenter I get a r30 leve being the highest that is the same as before, 190-220 SP a synth. So no, you won't be able to hit r50 with local.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 9:17pm by Khornette
____________________________




#48 Feb 02 2011 at 8:18 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
322 posts
Looking forward to seeing how parties work out
____________________________


#49 Feb 02 2011 at 8:18 PM Rating: Excellent
Sigmakan wrote:
Have you hit surplus before? Its a 10% reduction in SP. Thats not going to slow anyone down lol


For the first level of Surplus. Then, IIRC, it goes 20, 30 40 all the way to 100%

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 6:19pm by Osarion
#50 Feb 02 2011 at 8:19 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,948 posts
tylerbee wrote:
Looking forward to seeing how parties work out


Party SP is crazy, a bunch of r45+ Lalafell is killing Raptor for 300 SP a kill. If I dont have to go for lunch I woulda join them Lalafell Raptor killers.
____________________________




#51Sigmakan, Posted: Feb 02 2011 at 8:20 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Naw, each rank of surplus is a very minimal increase. I think I've hit 5 'ranks of surplus and it was no more than 20% reduction.
« Previous 1 2 3 4
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 19 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (19)