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First Glance: Substantial SP gains!Follow

#52 Feb 02 2011 at 8:22 PM Rating: Excellent
Sigmakan wrote:
Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Sigmakan wrote:
Have you hit surplus before? Its a 10% reduction in SP. Thats not going to slow anyone down lol


For the first level of Surplus. Then, IIRC, it goes 20, 30 40 all the way to 100%

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 6:19pm by Osarion


Naw, each rank of surplus is a very minimal increase. I think I've hit 5 'ranks of surplus and it was no more than 20% reduction.


They must have changed it then? I'm almost positive this is how it worked during the Beta at least. Could be wrong I guess.
#53 Feb 02 2011 at 8:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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The aim to motivate players to attack stronger enemies was a necessary one. However, the extent at which these changes speed the process is extremely high. SP returns have nearly doubled and possibly tripled if you're geared and have a good group tackling reds (which is good for challenge, but it devalues the worth of those levels). I am in total agreement that this is better than the previous SP cap, but it creates the problem of shortening the length of the game and removing overall fulfillment. You can hate me for this, but I was actually hoping they'd keep the new SP gains but extend the SP bar or scale back all SP gains (which keeps the requirement to attack the hardest monsters but stops players from hitting high fatigue after only 3 hours of playing).

With WoW now, you can achieve level 85 in maybe 2 weeks. If anyone is familiar with that game, level means absolutely nothing in terms of accomplishment; only epic gear and achievements. In FFXI (at least when it was launched in the US and required a great deal of time) your level meant so much and made you more attached to your character. I understand those old-school MMO mechanics are dying out with the new wave of gamer expectations, but I don't want this FFXIV to become a game with instant gratification for minimal work which is why I put down WoW.
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#54 Feb 02 2011 at 8:33 PM Rating: Good
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Jamaz wrote:
The aim to motivate players to attack stronger enemies was a necessary one. However, the extent at which these changes speed the process is extremely high. SP returns have nearly doubled and possibly tripled if you're geared and have a good group tackling reds (which is good for challenge, but it devalues the worth of those levels). I am in total agreement that this is better than the previous SP cap, but it creates the problem of shortening the length of the game and removing overall fulfillment. You can hate me for this, but I was actually hoping they'd keep the new SP gains but extend the SP bar or scale back all SP gains (which keeps the requirement to attack the hardest monsters but stops players from hitting high fatigue after only 3 hours of playing).

With WoW now, you can achieve level 85 in maybe 2 weeks. If anyone is familiar with that game, level means absolutely nothing in terms of accomplishment; only epic gear and achievements. In FFXI (at least when it was launched in the US and required a great deal of time) your level meant so much and made you more attached to your character. I understand those old-school MMO mechanics are dying out with the new wave of gamer expectations, but I don't want this FFXIV to become a game with instant gratification for minimal work which is why I put down WoW.


Thank you for posting my thoughts in a much clearer way! Agree 100%
#55 Feb 02 2011 at 8:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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I have been getting crazy exp/sp numbers. Anyone know if they raised the bar on exp needed to fatigue? They gonna have to hurry with end game content if they going to give us so much exp lol

I don't feel right complaining about better exp gain, but this is just way too much. I was thinking something more along the lines like 100 being a base for Even Matches, gradually going lower when fighting mobs under Even Match, and gradually going towards 200 when fighting things over Even Match.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 9:42pm by Scape13
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#56 Feb 02 2011 at 8:42 PM Rating: Good
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Jamaz wrote:
The aim to motivate players to attack stronger enemies was a necessary one. However, the extent at which these changes speed the process is extremely high. SP returns have nearly doubled and possibly tripled if you're geared and have a good group tackling reds (which is good for challenge, but it devalues the worth of those levels). I am in total agreement that this is better than the previous SP cap, but it creates the problem of shortening the length of the game and removing overall fulfillment. You can hate me for this, but I was actually hoping they'd keep the new SP gains but extend the SP bar or scale back all SP gains (which keeps the requirement to attack the hardest monsters but stops players from hitting high fatigue after only 3 hours of playing).

With WoW now, you can achieve level 85 in maybe 2 weeks. If anyone is familiar with that game, level means absolutely nothing in terms of accomplishment; only epic gear and achievements. In FFXI (at least when it was launched in the US and required a great deal of time) your level meant so much and made you more attached to your character. I understand those old-school MMO mechanics are dying out with the new wave of gamer expectations, but I don't want this FFXIV to become a game with instant gratification for minimal work which is why I put down WoW.



i agree completely. for some reason faster has become better. i remember in ffxi seeing lv 75 people and thinking how cool it was and how much it made you push to get that extra lv that day or week. now it seems if people are not to lv cap in a madder of a month or so the game is broken and is to "grindy". i agree that PARTY sp needed to be adjusted to promote party play but this was to much of an extreme in my opinion and people have not even found a way to maximize this system, wait another week and people will probably find some crazy way to make it even faster. i hate to complain when they are fixing issues with the game but at the same time how much are they going to listen to the overall attitude of the people? until we have another game that is just the same as every other mmo out there? ffxi was great for many reasons one of them being because it was different lets not take that away from ffxiv.
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#57 Feb 02 2011 at 8:43 PM Rating: Good
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Sigmakan wrote:
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
Sigmakan wrote:
Jamaz wrote:
Playing devil's advocate here, but SP is way too fast. I actually enjoyed the grind in FFXI and felt it was an accomplishment whereas even with the previous SP system it wasn't that bad. Can see this being very WoW like allowing you to get your job maxed asap. And I am praying Dolbyn zerg group doesn't come to pass... Really hope they nerfed the SP on those, haven't been able to see.


This SP gain is waaaay too high. There is zero 'challenge' any more.

Also interesting that DoL didnt get any sort of SP 'buff' even though it was the slowest to level past 40.


If by too high you mean just right? I agree.


Naw I mean too high. When everyone is R50 next week and there isnt any content it'll be interesting to see how the mood changes here.


By 'challenge' you mean doing the same thing only not being tedious as ****? There was no challenge hitting 50 before this change, it was just a massive time-sink. There is no challenge hitting 50 now, if the SP stays the same, it just takes much less time.

With the 2 patches/month plan I think we can expect to see some content at the end of this month.
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#58 Feb 02 2011 at 9:29 PM Rating: Good
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Is it really that bad that more players can reach rank 50 in a decent time frame?

I worked my *** off to get it, but I have no problems letting more casual players get some good leveling in.

I will always still be ahead of the casuals, because I will have a wider range of skills to use from leveling other jobs, but they will at least be able to do the content because they have 1 rank 50.
#59 Feb 02 2011 at 10:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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umm do you realize this is from doing leves with GA right? #2 the grind form 40-50 is nothing to shake a stick at. the few I see calling nerf are still rank 20ish...go figure
#60 Feb 02 2011 at 10:06 PM Rating: Decent
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DoctorMog wrote:
Is it really that bad that more players can reach rank 50 in a decent time frame?

I worked my *** off to get it, but I have no problems letting more casual players get some good leveling in.

I will always still be ahead of the casuals, because I will have a wider range of skills to use from leveling other jobs, but they will at least be able to do the content because they have 1 rank 50.


What content? xD

Topic wise...I have mixed feelings about this...I think the Battle SP change is nice...but the crafting SP change is way over the top...

Edited, Feb 3rd 2011 4:07am by Shezard

Edited, Feb 3rd 2011 4:08am by Shezard
#61 Feb 02 2011 at 10:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Sigmakan wrote:
Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Sigmakan wrote:
Have you hit surplus before? Its a 10% reduction in SP. Thats not going to slow anyone down lol


For the first level of Surplus. Then, IIRC, it goes 20, 30 40 all the way to 100%

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 6:19pm by Osarion


Naw, each rank of surplus is a very minimal increase. I think I've hit 5 'ranks of surplus and it was no more than 20% reduction.


They must have changed it then? I'm almost positive this is how it worked during the Beta at least. Could be wrong I guess.


When you hit the wall you still gain 0 SP unless they did change it sometime last month..because I got 0SP when I hit the cap on surplus.
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#62 Feb 02 2011 at 10:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Many fatigue virgins are finally having their first experience with the system.

I predict a drastic shift in the attitude toward the fatigue system in the next few days.
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#63 Feb 02 2011 at 11:05 PM Rating: Good
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This SP gain is waaaay too high. There is zero 'challenge' any more.


This is exactly the kind of mentality SE needs to keep this game failing. Challenge your players' patience, not their skill!

If you're wondering what to do when you hit 50, level another class. That's the way the game was designed. You can't compare it to WoW just because you can cap ONE class quickly, because in WoW you only GET one class per character.

Come and talk to me when you can cap all your classes "too fast."
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#64 Feb 02 2011 at 11:12 PM Rating: Good
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As a blacksmith rank 23,i repaired a Iron Gladius (rank 26 sword) and gained 117 sp points,when i used to gain 9-13 sp.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/4218/ffxivrepair.png
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#65 Feb 02 2011 at 11:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
Quote:
This SP gain is waaaay too high. There is zero 'challenge' any more.


This is exactly the kind of mentality SE needs to keep this game failing. Challenge your players' patience, not their skill!

If you're wondering what to do when you hit 50, level another class. That's the way the game was designed. You can't compare it to WoW just because you can cap ONE class quickly, because in WoW you only GET one class per character.

Come and talk to me when you can cap all your classes "too fast."


I agree. Grinding isn't a challenge anymore. It's considered a chore. In FFXI that was the only way to level, compared to that other MMO that has over 1 million subs and where grinding is the slowest way to level (representative of what people really want). The problem is devs at other game companies figured out how you can advance your character without the mind numbing monotony of grinding beetles and crabs for hours on end. Give players something to do and reward them for completing it. In FFXI you could afk fight as a melee, how's that challenging? It was a result of having to grind the same mobs over and over. Grinding is dead, and needs to stay that way. It's a sorry excuse for an un-creative dev team and is cheap to develop for. It cheapens the game's potential experience by funneling gameplay into monotonous repeating tasks to develop your character. It's the 21st century now. Like your dad's old Buick, grinding just isn't as cool anymore. There's a newer, sharper car out now.

Stay dead, grinding... stay dead...
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#66 Feb 02 2011 at 11:47 PM Rating: Decent
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reptiletim wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Quote:
This SP gain is waaaay too high. There is zero 'challenge' any more.


This is exactly the kind of mentality SE needs to keep this game failing. Challenge your players' patience, not their skill!

If you're wondering what to do when you hit 50, level another class. That's the way the game was designed. You can't compare it to WoW just because you can cap ONE class quickly, because in WoW you only GET one class per character.

Come and talk to me when you can cap all your classes "too fast."


I agree. Grinding isn't a challenge anymore. It's considered a chore. In FFXI that was the only way to level, compared to that other MMO that has over 1 million subs and where grinding is the slowest way to level (representative of what people really want). The problem is devs at other game companies figured out how you can advance your character without the mind numbing monotony of grinding beetles and crabs for hours on end. Give players something to do and reward them for completing it. In FFXI you could afk fight as a melee, how's that challenging? It was a result of having to grind the same mobs over and over. Grinding is dead, and needs to stay that way. It's a sorry excuse for an un-creative dev team and is cheap to develop for. It cheapens the game's potential experience by funneling gameplay into monotonous repeating tasks to develop your character. It's the 21st century now. Like your dad's old Buick, grinding just isn't as cool anymore. There's a newer, sharper car out now.

Stay dead, grinding... stay dead...

"grinding just isn't as cool anymore" yeah,maybe for wow kiddos.
Id rather grind with a party than do quest grind alone,thank you.
There are plenty of wow clones,thank god we still have eastern games.
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#67 Feb 02 2011 at 11:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Naw I mean too high. When everyone is R50 next week and there isnt any content it'll be interesting to see how the mood changes here.


you must have forgotten the awesome lameness of fatigue dude. even though yoru SP isnt terrible with fatigue on, if you grind enough youll stop gaining SP all together on that class, and the amount of SP needed for higher levels (from what i hear) is so high it keeps people from being able to level much at all because of fatigue.
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#68 Feb 02 2011 at 11:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
I question what's going to happen if everyone rushes to the finish line only to discover that there's no celebratory party set up beyond a pat on the back and a handshake.


Of course there's a party! SE even said there'd be cake -- unless you're saying that the cake is a... no... no, you wouldn't say such a thing.
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#69 Feb 02 2011 at 11:58 PM Rating: Good
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I am happy about the increase in SP. Being able to rank up on a weeknight? That is awesome. I mean seriously, making us grind our faces off isn't "challenge" - it is just a massive time sink - especially when you realisitically need to be levelinging a minimum of 2 jobs pretty close to each other to be at reasonable effectiveness.
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#70 Feb 03 2011 at 12:13 AM Rating: Good
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TheonVenethiel wrote:
"grinding just isn't as cool anymore" yeah,maybe for wow kiddos.
Id rather grind with a party than do quest grind alone,thank you.


I don't get it: you say that a game needs grinding, and that "wow kiddos" don't like grinding, but then you describe WoW's progression as a grind...
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"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#71 Feb 03 2011 at 12:16 AM Rating: Good
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I personally love the xp gains. Was in a leve linking party with Lux (thx for the boiled bream)and it was a blast.
I went from lvl 29-31 Marauder in that group.

It doesnt take away the sense of accomplishment it just made the game more fun in my opinion. If you want a challenge create it yourself by refusing to do leves and behests. Just lvl purely by killing mobs like in ffxi. For me I like putting in time and skill and being rewarded for fighting yellow-orange mobs. Now I dont have to kill anymore blue mobs yay!!

Also love the colors on the dmg and buff/debuffs/evades. This new team rocks!!!! Excitement has returned. :)
#72 Feb 03 2011 at 12:19 AM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:
TheonVenethiel wrote:
"grinding just isn't as cool anymore" yeah,maybe for wow kiddos.
Id rather grind with a party than do quest grind alone,thank you.


I don't get it: you say that a game needs grinding, and that "wow kiddos" don't like grinding, but then you describe WoW's progression as a grind...

It's not difficult to understand.

Wow has quest grind,FFXIV has mob grind.


Of course doing 34563 hand holding dumb quest of "kill 10x" or "talk to x" is grind,it's just a different type of grind.

That's why i laugh when i hear terms like "asian grinder",MMORPGs are all about grind.
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#73 Feb 03 2011 at 12:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Our leve grp was only 150% better then pre-patch.

I started r43 with 41/83k ended r44 with 28.4/85. In 3 hours doing only 3 camps. we where getting 749 sp most leves with 5-6 links when we only had 3 linke we barely made 500 sp however we where 38-48 range.

All and all its freaking awesome.

I tested some solo at 43 it was great. Coblyns and Buzzards/Birds are still the best. (As a healer spec Conjurer solo)
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#74 Feb 03 2011 at 12:31 AM Rating: Good
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TheonVenethiel wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
TheonVenethiel wrote:
"grinding just isn't as cool anymore" yeah,maybe for wow kiddos.
Id rather grind with a party than do quest grind alone,thank you.


I don't get it: you say that a game needs grinding, and that "wow kiddos" don't like grinding, but then you describe WoW's progression as a grind...

It's not difficult to understand.

Wow has quest grind,FFXIV has mob grind.

Of course doing 34563 hand holding dumb quest of "kill 10x" or "talk to x" is grind,it's just a different type of grind.

That's why i laugh when i hear terms like "asian grinder",MMORPGs are all about grind.


Um... so, Levequests... >_>


Edited, Feb 3rd 2011 1:31am by KaneKitty
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#75 Feb 03 2011 at 12:38 AM Rating: Default
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KaneKitty wrote:
TheonVenethiel wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
TheonVenethiel wrote:
"grinding just isn't as cool anymore" yeah,maybe for wow kiddos.
Id rather grind with a party than do quest grind alone,thank you.


I don't get it: you say that a game needs grinding, and that "wow kiddos" don't like grinding, but then you describe WoW's progression as a grind...

It's not difficult to understand.

Wow has quest grind,FFXIV has mob grind.

Of course doing 34563 hand holding dumb quest of "kill 10x" or "talk to x" is grind,it's just a different type of grind.

That's why i laugh when i hear terms like "asian grinder",MMORPGs are all about grind.


Um... so, Levequests... >_>


Edited, Feb 3rd 2011 1:31am by KaneKitty

8 leves every 36 hours + mob grind ///// quest grind till endgame.
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#76 Feb 03 2011 at 12:39 AM Rating: Decent
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hmmm I'm interested....walked away a few weeks ago...add content and I may come back...
#77 Feb 03 2011 at 12:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kane, he's referring to WoW quest grinding which gives no incentive to do in groups. This is being compared to the traditional term of grinding where you would party and level up. Also people are getting a bit confused, but grind is "the process of leveling up in a game" but it can also mean "lame time-sink" depending on connotation.
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#78 Feb 03 2011 at 1:15 AM Rating: Decent
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I like the increase, but it may be too much...
imo it cheapens the sense of accomplishment, but many do not. I'd be happy with a system like 11, where 200 would be the max you could get (for a long time), with bonus modifiers added when applicable.

I propose a question to everyone who thinks "It's great!!! gimmie 1000 sp per kill!"

Do you wish you simply started your character at rank 50 because ranking up is a time sink?



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#79 Feb 03 2011 at 1:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
"grinding just isn't as cool anymore" yeah,maybe for wow kiddos.
Id rather grind with a party than do quest grind alone,thank you.
There are plenty of wow clones,thank god we still have eastern games.


It's a grind when it's boring. It's boring when it's the same thing over and over. Gaining SP faster= less of the same thing over and over= less grind. This is pretty simple stuff, people.

Granted people's perceptions of repetition can differ and some people enjoy grinds that others don't, but the vast majority of players do not enjoy progress that comes so slowly that the content they are progressing on has been repeated hundreds of times by the time they hit the next mark.
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Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#80 Feb 03 2011 at 1:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Peopel seem to be crying that someone will hit 50 faster then them or someone will hit 50 and feel cheated or once you hit 50 there is nothing to do.

Well your fooling yourself and havnt been paying any attention. Once 50 a whole new grind begins the Gear grind.

You ahve to grind leves for rep to do faction leves that have a slight chance to get the UBER gear. It is not handed to you at all. Being 50 doesnt make it any easier nor does it increase your chances of getting said UBER gear.

Being 50 sinple opens new avenues of gameplay. Maybe now your 50 you can gather from higher area spots and up your crafting as a result. Maybe you can now farm that harder to get material you need that someoen is gouging for and craft gear for profit. This alone would add more acomplishment to your character then simply getting an achievement on the loadstone saying so and so hit 50.

I dont feel cheated I would have been 50 3 months ago if SE didnt nerf SP so harshly. This is simply a fix to the SP system thsy frankly should have done this first instead of making it so tedius.

Even getting the new cap of just over 800 SP doing leves you only get 20-30k more sp then you would have befroe the patch which would have been around 35-45k in High 30' mid 40's.

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#81 Feb 03 2011 at 1:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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BadJoRed wrote:
I like the increase, but it may be too much...
imo it cheapens the sense of accomplishment, but many do not. I'd be happy with a system like 11, where 200 would be the max you could get (for a long time), with bonus modifiers added when applicable.

I propose a question to everyone who thinks "It's great!!! gimmie 1000 sp per kill!"

Do you wish you simply started your character at rank 50 because ranking up is a time sink?


Why is this always the retort people give? Just because someone doesn't like spending days of game time to gain a level does NOT mean that they want to be handed r50. It's funny, because your highest battle class is r32, so you really have absolutely no clue how awful the grind was before this change. Getting a single rank at 40+ was a mind-numbing process filled with hours upon hours of soloing or 15 man leve groups that seemed to span an entire day.

Now, ranking up isn't so bad. After 3 hours of leves and party SP, I gained basically a full rank (42-43). Compare that to ffxi, and you will immediately see that the scale is very similar. Just because people see these huge numbers, they assume that the system must be broken, but the truth of the matter is that MOST of these huge numbers are only coming in a group on linked leves with Guardian's Aspect. For the MAJORITY of events, SP ranges from about 150-350 per mob. If you consider the fact that to get to r44 I need 81000 sp, perhaps then it will make more sense.

It really baffles me that people can see this as a bad thing. To me, this was SE removing one of the larger roadblocks that they had put in to KEEP people from leveling too fast, and is a sign that we are going to see some pretty extensive content updates in the near future.
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#82 Feb 03 2011 at 1:50 AM Rating: Good
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From a crafting perspective, I'm liking this increase. At r40 CRP doing r50 synth Walnut Mask, I get 700 SP average, while doing r40 synth Yew Half Mask I'm getting the same as before, 250 SP average. The thing is, r50 synth is the hardest synth I will be able to do, it make sense to get so much SP because even utilizing all the advanced abilities + tool/clothes etc. I still have a high chance of failing, while the r40 synth is just spamming standard. Botter may hate it though.
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#83 Feb 03 2011 at 2:08 AM Rating: Default
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BartelX wrote:
BadJoRed wrote:
I like the increase, but it may be too much...
imo it cheapens the sense of accomplishment, but many do not. I'd be happy with a system like 11, where 200 would be the max you could get (for a long time), with bonus modifiers added when applicable.

I propose a question to everyone who thinks "It's great!!! gimmie 1000 sp per kill!"

Do you wish you simply started your character at rank 50 because ranking up is a time sink?


Why is this always the retort people give? Just because someone doesn't like spending days of game time to gain a level does NOT mean that they want to be handed r50. It's funny, because your highest battle class is r32, so you really have absolutely no clue how awful the grind was before this change. Getting a single rank at 40+ was a mind-numbing process filled with hours upon hours of soloing or 15 man leve groups that seemed to span an entire day.

Now, ranking up isn't so bad. After 3 hours of leves and party SP, I gained basically a full rank (42-43). Compare that to ffxi, and you will immediately see that the scale is very similar. Just because people see these huge numbers, they assume that the system must be broken, but the truth of the matter is that MOST of these huge numbers are only coming in a group on linked leves with Guardian's Aspect. For the MAJORITY of events, SP ranges from about 150-350 per mob. If you consider the fact that to get to r44 I need 81000 sp, perhaps then it will make more sense.

It really baffles me that people can see this as a bad thing. To me, this was SE removing one of the larger roadblocks that they had put in to KEEP people from leveling too fast, and is a sign that we are going to see some pretty extensive content updates in the near future.


So, draw the line then. Tell me how much SP you would like to gain every mob? I'm sure there are several people that think ranking up at all is a time sink.

And btw, it's petty to comment on someone's rank/level unless they are so severely under leveled on most aspects of the game, that it would be impossible for them to know the basic functions of game play. I base my thoughts on being a long time player of FFXI, where we actually had to work for maximum level.

Edited, Feb 3rd 2011 3:09am by BadJoRed
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#84 Feb 03 2011 at 2:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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BadJoRed wrote:
BartelX wrote:
BadJoRed wrote:
I like the increase, but it may be too much...
imo it cheapens the sense of accomplishment, but many do not. I'd be happy with a system like 11, where 200 would be the max you could get (for a long time), with bonus modifiers added when applicable.

I propose a question to everyone who thinks "It's great!!! gimmie 1000 sp per kill!"

Do you wish you simply started your character at rank 50 because ranking up is a time sink?


Why is this always the retort people give? Just because someone doesn't like spending days of game time to gain a level does NOT mean that they want to be handed r50. It's funny, because your highest battle class is r32, so you really have absolutely no clue how awful the grind was before this change. Getting a single rank at 40+ was a mind-numbing process filled with hours upon hours of soloing or 15 man leve groups that seemed to span an entire day.

Now, ranking up isn't so bad. After 3 hours of leves and party SP, I gained basically a full rank (42-43). Compare that to ffxi, and you will immediately see that the scale is very similar. Just because people see these huge numbers, they assume that the system must be broken, but the truth of the matter is that MOST of these huge numbers are only coming in a group on linked leves with Guardian's Aspect. For the MAJORITY of events, SP ranges from about 150-350 per mob. If you consider the fact that to get to r44 I need 81000 sp, perhaps then it will make more sense.

It really baffles me that people can see this as a bad thing. To me, this was SE removing one of the larger roadblocks that they had put in to KEEP people from leveling too fast, and is a sign that we are going to see some pretty extensive content updates in the near future.


So, draw the line then. Tell me how much SP you would like to gain every mob? I'm sure there are several people that think ranking up at all is a time sink.

And btw, it's petty to comment on someone's rank/level unless they are so severely under leveled on most aspects of the game, that it would be impossible for them to know the basic functions of game play. I base my thoughts on being a long time player of FFXI, where we actually had to work for maximum level.]


It's not my place to draw the line, it's SE's place, and I think they drew it perfectly.

And btw, I made the comment about your rank because it has EVERYTHING to do with what you are talking about. Have you played a character at 40+ and experienced the grind first hand? If not, how can you possibly comment on it? Being a player of ffxi has NOTHING to do with this game. Not to mention, you are living in a fantasy world if you think that you worked more in ffxi for max level than in ffxiv. I play probably 20ish hours a week of this game, and after almost 5 months, have not ONE class at cap. In ffxi, in a span of 6 months I got 4 jobs to 75 with only a slightly higher playime per week. It drives me crazy when people make assumptions about things they have not experienced in the slightest...
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#85 Feb 03 2011 at 2:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Level 50 character in FFXI talking to a level 40 person in FFXI.

"You have NO clue about grinding and what I've been through!"
lol

meh, no sense arguing with the instant gratification peoples. I like the SP increase, I just think it's a tad high.
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#86 Feb 03 2011 at 2:54 AM Rating: Decent
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BadJoRed wrote:

meh, no sense arguing with the instant gratification peoples. I like the SP increase, I just think it's a tad high.


I agree. Shiny numbers are nice but in a game that has nothing to it but leveling it will break the games back rather then help it in the long run. Looks like this is going to turn into another 15 man slag fest for super-duper fast SP. Bit of a travesty.

That said though, if you notice the end of the second producers letter he mentions he is going to put out a second poll to see what we want from the battle system. The best thing everyone can do now is enjoy the instant gratification in the SP but really think about what they want to see in the future in preparation for that survey.

Personally I hope for a quasi hybrid system from 11 that allows us to solo but actually gives us a job and challenge when in group. The only way I see that happening though is by forcing you to make smaller parties (6-7?) and creating alliances for NMs and the such. Other wise, no matter what they do, if you get so and so percentages from adding more members to a party thats the route everyone will take for the sake of efficiency over challenging fun.

Regardless if you agree or not that letter seems to indicate this is a temporary measure (or a permanent one if everyone votes they love it). We should not only take advantage of this bounty but also poke holes in it and see what we like from it. We're going to get another say in what we want from this future survey; lets not get blinded by big numbers alone and take some thought (not to reiterate myself) on what kinda leaving we're going to want to play through for the games lifetime.
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#87 Feb 03 2011 at 3:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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BadJoRed wrote:
Level 50 character in FFXI talking to a level 40 person in FFXI.

"You have NO clue about grinding and what I've been through!"
lol

meh, no sense arguing with the instant gratification peoples. I like the SP increase, I just think it's a tad high.


Um... what? What does that first line even mean? As for the rest, you are free to think whatever you want. However, if you think I'm an "instant gratification" person, you are sorely mistaken. I love how people immediately get lumped into a category like that though. You seem to be an "all or nothing" kind of person. Either someone is this, or they are that. Unfortunately, most people do NOT fall into one of these extremes, myself included. Just because I don't want to spend weeks gaining 1 rank does not mean I want instant gratification. I don't want to be handed anything, I want to work for it, but I don't think that requiring an insanely long and tedious grind makes me feel any more accomplished than if the ranks come at a moderate pace. It's called the concept of middle ground, and it's something that I wish a lot more people would understand, instead of making assumptions that if someone says X, they must automatically be Y.
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#88 Feb 03 2011 at 3:35 AM Rating: Decent
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I honestly wasn't expecting to get more than 300SP off of deep reds mobs, but I've been getting 700SP on linked/aspect'd/blue leve mobs that die in 15 seconds... so I took advantage of the patch because I don't expect this scaling to last. I went from R29-31 in ~4 hours and that was with me burning 100 points on Guardian's Aspect which I can't do every reset. Leves definitely need a little more balancing, can't speak for camping mobs though but I haven't heard any outrageous numbers yet.

And the party search needs to add an option for people who just want to kill stuff.
#89 Feb 03 2011 at 5:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Seems like the same game, just bigger numbers. I'm waiting for some new content before coming back.
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#90 Feb 03 2011 at 6:03 AM Rating: Good
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pixelpop wrote:
Quote:
Naw I mean too high. When everyone is R50 next week and there isnt any content it'll be interesting to see how the mood changes here.


you must have forgotten the awesome lameness of fatigue dude. even though yoru SP isnt terrible with fatigue on, if you grind enough youll stop gaining SP all together on that class, and the amount of SP needed for higher levels (from what i hear) is so high it keeps people from being able to level much at all because of fatigue.


With our usual group we ran Camp Broken Water leve's with 3-4 links each time. As a Level 39 ARC I was getting 750ish sp w/ GA. Gained over 80K sp last night and am in surplus. Will continue to grind thru surplus until I get 0 sp. I figure SE will nerf this soon enough. Might as well live for today!

#91 Feb 03 2011 at 6:46 AM Rating: Good
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I haven't been on yet I'm at work but this looks broken...
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#92 Feb 03 2011 at 6:57 AM Rating: Decent
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I am more worry about end game content more. Instead of have to grind for year to get to end game to do endgame stuff, iI d prefer to get rid of the grind and jump to the fun. What Mr.Duck do is follow the mmo nowday, nothing wrong with that

Also if i have to add: I d like mr.duck to make a option to turn off NPC dialog (which he mention will be fix in the future i belive) so ppl can begin to talk/chat to each other w/o get flood by those long text

Edited, Feb 3rd 2011 8:04am by Shneibel
#93 Feb 03 2011 at 7:00 AM Rating: Decent
Ya, it's always a fine line when it comes to exp gain. On the one hand, exp shouldn't be the end all be all of a game, on the other hand, you shouldn't get to cap in no time leading you to nothing. A game like WoW, FFXI, etc, it's fine that you can level up quickly in those games as there's tons to do content wise and end-game wise. FFXIV is still new, still awaiting a PS3 release, you can't let everyone right now get ahead to the point where they'll be a ton of rank 50's come ps3 release.

We'll see what they decide to do though, for casual players, this is great, we figure we'll be hitting 50 by the time endgame content comes out. For a more hardcore player, they're going to be twiddling their thumbs for awhile before the content comes out. Hearing about this exp gain, for me personally, makes me happy, I get to play about 2-3 times a week for a couple hours at a time. If I can gain a level or two every week, that would be fantastic.
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#94 Feb 03 2011 at 7:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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All I have to say is:

    Get it before it's nerfed!
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#95 Feb 03 2011 at 7:37 AM Rating: Good
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I just came across this:

Quote:
* Added February 3, 2011 at 3:00 a.m.
Together with the changes to skill and experience point awards from combat based on enemy rank, the skill and experience points gained through gathering and synthesis activities have also been adjusted to better reflect gathering point grades and level of recipe difficulty respectively.
Further adjustments to the way these features function will be ongoing. We apologize for the late notice.




http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=bc65fe2c10004f51f9db9ac890e7747509498cca


again, get it before it's nerfed! lol
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#96 Feb 03 2011 at 7:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think the SP boost is great. I don't know why people are complaining that people are going to get to R50 faster. The fatigue system slows them down anyway, also with the previous system the people that play 5 or more hours before were going to be at R50 before the casuals anyway. Besides these huge SP gains are mostly from high level leves, which can only be done every 36 hours, so getting an extra 5K-10K every day and a half isn't a big deal. I've heard so many people ******** about leveling R20-R50 being very tedious, so this SP boost helps alleviate that tedium.
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#97 Feb 03 2011 at 7:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Jefro420 wrote:
I just came across this:

Quote:
* Added February 3, 2011 at 3:00 a.m.
Together with the changes to skill and experience point awards from combat based on enemy rank, the skill and experience points gained through gathering and synthesis activities have also been adjusted to better reflect gathering point grades and level of recipe difficulty respectively.
Further adjustments to the way these features function will be ongoing. We apologize for the late notice.




http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=bc65fe2c10004f51f9db9ac890e7747509498cca


again, get it before it's nerfed! lol


I saw that too, actually the Japanese page goes into more detail about the levequests and behests being adjusted too.
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#98 Feb 03 2011 at 7:53 AM Rating: Good
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TerraSonicX wrote:
I think the SP boost is great. I don't know why people are complaining that people are going to get to R50 faster. The fatigue system slows them down anyway, also with the previous system the people that play 5 or more hours before were going to be at R50 before the casuals anyway. Besides these huge SP gains are mostly from high level leves, which can only be done every 36 hours, so getting an extra 5K-10K every day and a half isn't a big deal. I've heard so many people ******** about leveling R20-R50 being very tedious, so this SP boost helps alleviate that tedium.

Except that I went from getting 50k on my LSes leve run to getting 100k. An adjustment was completely necessary, but what we got is overkill, and it won't last.
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#99 Feb 03 2011 at 7:58 AM Rating: Good
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Y'all are fooling yourselves if you think SE if done tinkering with the progression of this game. There will always be some incentive to grind. Whether it be the high rank abilities you will need from other classes, or a lvl cap increase with a steep sp curve, or a merit type system to round out stats and add custom abilities. Make no mistake, SE will not let the game end up like wow where you just pound out max rank in a few weeks and then simply do nothing but end game content.

They are tinkering and experimenting right now in order to attrack more players. If they are smart, they are torn between what we are asking for and what everyone else in the world wants out of a game. I mean, think about it.... why would the cater to the whims of us oddballs who already enjoy ffxiv? For this game to survive they need to find out what the people want who are not currently playing the game.

Anyway, its safe to say that a lot of things we want are the same things anyone would want. Content is the big one right now. Not only was it sorely lacking up until now - but the new SP reward system will have people clamoring for content louder than ever.

#100 Feb 03 2011 at 8:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Jefro420 wrote:

Except that I went from getting 50k on my LSes leve run to getting 100k. An adjustment was completely necessary, but what we got is overkill, and it won't last.



True, that sounds like overkill and I can see it nerfed to an extent. I think they easiest way this fix this problem is to get rid of levelinking. BTW, with that 100K how many levels did you progress? I'm just curious.
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#101 Feb 03 2011 at 8:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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This doesn't make anything easier. It just lowers the total amount of man hours to see everything in the game. I think hiding most of a game's content behind a 250 hour wall is just a stalling tactic to try and get more subscription money out of me, and I'd rather give my dollars to a company whose keeping me because I enjoy the gameplay, and not because I haven't even got to it yet.
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