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Market Ward Changes FTW!Follow

#1 Feb 02 2011 at 5:55 PM Rating: Excellent
I am really happy about the way the Wards have been changed.

You no longer need to even list an item in the right ward for it to load into the item sales listing. This makes finding more rare items that are rarely listed (even more rarely in the correct ward) a billion times easier. For example, Gnat Wings.

Good job, SE!

The prices showing I'm a little iffy on (maybe if they listed all items, not just 20), but I'll certainly take the thing as-is!

I guess another XIV site's item listing just went mostly out the window ;)

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 4:02pm by Osarion
#2 Feb 02 2011 at 8:24 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah I am happy too...so maybe now the markets will be more competitive.
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#3 Feb 02 2011 at 8:35 PM Rating: Default
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I like the new search, but I hate it showing all the prices. Its gonna be harder to sell stuff now with all the undercutting. Its not even an advantage putting the items up first anymore. So, items will just keep dropping til everything sells for 1 gil?

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 9:36pm by Scape13
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#4 Feb 02 2011 at 8:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Scape13 wrote:
I like the new search, but I hate it showing all the prices. Its gonna be harder to sell stuff now with all the undercutting. Its not even an advantage putting the items up first anymore. So, items will just keep dropping til everything sells for 1 gil?

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 9:36pm by Scape13

Won't happen - the opportunity cost of collecting materials will force people to evaluate what a good is worth to them. At some point, selling an item "first" will be worthless because it would take too long to obtain the item in the first place to make a profit. Prices will most likely drop for a few weeks, might even go to ridiculously low prices, but eventually cooler heads will prevail and prices will equalize where the most people feel the worth of a good should be. One or two people might sell for lower, but if it doesn't produce a certain level of profit, no one with any sense will sell at that price.
#5 Feb 02 2011 at 9:20 PM Rating: Good
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I love the new system and also agree with the previous post about priced dropping then leveling out.
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#6 Feb 02 2011 at 9:35 PM Rating: Good
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Just the opposite is happening. Now that people can find items, things are selling very quickly and running out very quickly. This is causing the next person that lists the item to inch up the price.

There's a lot of gil in people's pockets and now that shopping just got a lot easier, we will begin to see it spent. High demand will spike prices until the crafters have time to react. Should be interesting.

I personally just outfitted an archer - which I had been wanting to do but didn't want to spend 5 hours finding gear. It took 10 minutes tonight. Good stuff.

#7 Feb 03 2011 at 12:22 AM Rating: Good
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The market wards are pretty much a virtual Auction House. Difference being you can enter and walk up to the npc/retainer to purchase. I like it.
#8 Feb 03 2011 at 12:28 AM Rating: Default
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Also excited tho when i went to check stuff there was but a few retainers up since it was only 2 hours after servers went live again.

I spotted a awesome deal on earth shards and when i got ther eit had already been bought. So not sure about the accuracy of the lists. Unless the guy literally bought it in the half a minute it took me to hit escape and change wards.
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#9 Feb 03 2011 at 12:29 AM Rating: Default
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I only hope that they dont use this as an excuse to not give us an ingame mailbox.

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#10 Feb 03 2011 at 12:39 AM Rating: Good
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leomike35 wrote:
The market wards are pretty much a virtual Auction House.


If the market wards are a virtual auction house... then what does that make an auction house?

A real virtual auction house? O_O
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#11 Feb 03 2011 at 1:42 AM Rating: Good
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Mithsavvy wrote:
Just the opposite is happening. Now that people can find items, things are selling very quickly and running out very quickly. This is causing the next person that lists the item to inch up the price.

There's a lot of gil in people's pockets and now that shopping just got a lot easier, we will begin to see it spent. High demand will spike prices until the crafters have time to react. Should be interesting.

I personally just outfitted an archer - which I had been wanting to do but didn't want to spend 5 hours finding gear. It took 10 minutes tonight. Good stuff.



this is expected. people were holding gil for many reasons, like maybe they didn't get the best deal, maybe they didn't find what they were looking for, or maybe they didn't even know the items exhisted.

things are going fast because people have access to them now, and the crafters are getting busy. prices WILL eventually even out. This is the law of supply and demand.
#12 Feb 03 2011 at 1:52 AM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:
leomike35 wrote:
The market wards are pretty much a virtual Auction House.


If the market wards are a virtual auction house... then what does that make an auction house?

A real virtual auction house? O_O


That's why someone needs to come up with a convenient phrase to describe the frills used to deliver the auction house system. >_>
#13 Feb 03 2011 at 3:02 AM Rating: Decent
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With all the gil floating around, I'm wondering what the prices for HQ weapons/armor is going to go for. Haven't had a chance to check out the wards, but can we look up +1,+2,+3s or do we have to keep checking every retainer with a star over their head?
#14 Feb 03 2011 at 3:20 AM Rating: Good
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Ravashack wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
leomike35 wrote:
The market wards are pretty much a virtual Auction House.


If the market wards are a virtual auction house... then what does that make an auction house?

A real virtual auction house? O_O


That's why someone needs to come up with a convenient phrase to describe the frills used to deliver the auction house system. >_>

Your definition may very, but I would say the most general definition would be:
A single consolidated location at which all or nearly all goods can be purchased with currency from other players.

At this point, I'm pretty sure the only thing that people who claim the Markets are not an AH are hung up on is the "consolidated" part, as you still have to run around to pick up your goods.
#15 Feb 03 2011 at 3:29 AM Rating: Good
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I like the new system. And I agree that supply and demand is the way to go with an in game economy. So you can't make fortunes off junk anymore, not that big of a deal. Go for HQ, or low cost synths, and you can still turn a profit just fine. Synth a bunch of garbage that nobody really needs, and ask an arm and a leg for it, and you might not do too well.

HQ gear, skill up mats, and even some NQ stuff that's a bit harder to make then the rest will all still be valued. Making junk so hard to find that people are willing to pay whatever just to avoid a long tedious search was a terrible idea for an economy, and it deserved to be scrapped.

If you have trouble making gil with the supply and demand system, then you need to try new things and hone your skills not only as a crafter, but as a manufacturer and seller, which means finding ways to cut your costs, and making things that are in demand, not just whatever is easiest to produce, because that stuff will go down in price~ as it should. Coping with this change will make you a far better crafter in general.

It's really not an unreasonable system, and I don't know why so many people have a grudge against it... Seems like anyone who even breathes a word of a supply and demand driven market gets rated down. Guess nobody likes seeing their gravy train dry up, but still... It's a good thing for the game.

Edited, Feb 3rd 2011 4:30am by Tiger228
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#16 Feb 03 2011 at 7:29 AM Rating: Good
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leomike35 wrote:
The market wards are pretty much a virtual Auction House. Difference being you can enter and walk up to the npc/retainer to purchase. I like it.


Now give a NPC linkpearl to your retainer so you can manage it from anywhere and you got even better than an AH.
#17 Feb 03 2011 at 7:49 AM Rating: Decent
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The new search function is very Funky!!
I like it but I am concerned that my retain might be listed in the search results but un-findable because the wards have crashed again!
Any one know if they Ninja fixed the crashing?
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#18 Feb 03 2011 at 9:59 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Hulan wrote:
Scape13 wrote:
I like the new search, but I hate it showing all the prices. Its gonna be harder to sell stuff now with all the undercutting. Its not even an advantage putting the items up first anymore. So, items will just keep dropping til everything sells for 1 gil?

Edited, Feb 2nd 2011 9:36pm by Scape13

Won't happen - the opportunity cost of collecting materials will force people to evaluate what a good is worth to them. At some point, selling an item "first" will be worthless because it would take too long to obtain the item in the first place to make a profit. Prices will most likely drop for a few weeks, might even go to ridiculously low prices, but eventually cooler heads will prevail and prices will equalize where the most people feel the worth of a good should be. One or two people might sell for lower, but if it doesn't produce a certain level of profit, no one with any sense will sell at that price.
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#19 Feb 03 2011 at 10:02 AM Rating: Good
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Hulan wrote:
Ravashack wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
leomike35 wrote:
The market wards are pretty much a virtual Auction House.


If the market wards are a virtual auction house... then what does that make an auction house?

A real virtual auction house? O_O


That's why someone needs to come up with a convenient phrase to describe the frills used to deliver the auction house system. >_>

Your definition may vary, but I would say the most general definition would be:
A single consolidated location at which all or nearly all goods can be purchased with currency from other players.

At this point, I'm pretty sure the only thing that people who claim the Markets are not an AH are hung up on is the "consolidated" part, as you still have to run around to pick up your goods.


Not definition. Phrase.

People claim the Markets are not an Auction House because they AREN'T an Auction House. Auction Houses house auctions and auctions have bids. If you don't have bids then you don't have an Auction House, you essentially have a marketplace. There is a very big difference between the two.
#20 Feb 03 2011 at 10:06 AM Rating: Good
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Keysofgaruda wrote:
this is expected. people were holding gil for many reasons, like maybe they didn't get the best deal, maybe they didn't find what they were looking for, or maybe they didn't even know the items exhisted.

things are going fast because people have access to them now, and the crafters are getting busy. prices WILL eventually even out. This is the law of supply and demand.


It's easier to buy things.. and now more things are selling. Color me surprised. :)

Ravashack wrote:
Hulan wrote:
Ravashack wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
leomike35 wrote:
The market wards are pretty much a virtual Auction House.


If the market wards are a virtual auction house... then what does that make an auction house?

A real virtual auction house? O_O


That's why someone needs to come up with a convenient phrase to describe the frills used to deliver the auction house system. >_>

Your definition may vary, but I would say the most general definition would be:
A single consolidated location at which all or nearly all goods can be purchased with currency from other players.

At this point, I'm pretty sure the only thing that people who claim the Markets are not an AH are hung up on is the "consolidated" part, as you still have to run around to pick up your goods.


Not definition. Phrase.

People claim the Markets are not an Auction House because they AREN'T an Auction House. Auction Houses house auctions and auctions have bids. If you don't have bids then you don't have an Auction House, you essentially have a marketplace. There is a very big difference between the two.


Honestly, I'm pretty sure that most people asking for "An Auction House" aren't asking for it because they want to actually bid on things. Just like people who asked for "A windower" in FFXI were not asking for the ability to play in a window; they were asking for the ability to alt-tab and use plugins.

It's all in the terminology.

EDIT: More specifically, the terminology does not match the intent.

Edited, Feb 3rd 2011 11:10am by Mikhalia
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#21 Feb 03 2011 at 10:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Just like people who asked for "A windower" in FFXI were not asking for the ability to play in a window; they were asking for the ability to alt-tab and use plugins.

It's all in the terminology.
Well, originally I wanted a windower for FFXI to alt-tab. Then after getting used to and learning more about plugins, I came to the conclusion that I'd never go back to vanilla FFXI because of how frustrating it would be. So by that point I didn't care at all about an official FFXI windower. I actually did try to make the switch when SE released the /macro command but it was too slow and problematic to use effectively, I switched back after a miserable Ashu Talif fight on the first day.
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#22 Feb 03 2011 at 10:30 AM Rating: Good
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To all the people clamoring that prices will destroy the economy:

Isn't this exactly like the WoW style "AH"?* You search for an item, and they're sorted by increasing price. Buying the lowest priced goods didn't destroy the economy there, why would it do so here? In fact, the only difference I can see between the Wards now and the WoW AH is that you have to walk to a retainer to pick up the item instead of walking to your mailbox to pick up your item. Semantics.


*Disclamer: I never played WoW, but I played LoTRO for several years and am under the impression that the LoTRO AH is identical to the WoW AH. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
#23 Feb 03 2011 at 10:30 AM Rating: Good
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It's so close to an AH that why can't I just purchase the **** thing from the search menu?!

Seeing the clone room and zombie seller isn't a good experience so why not cut it completely?
In a game with so little load times the fact that you have to zone between market wards is really annoying.

I don't mind it in XI where you have to zone everywhere but even in that game there wasn't this much useless loading time that rewards you by showing the exact same room you just zoned out of with a few zombies in it.

#24 Feb 03 2011 at 10:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hydragyrum wrote:
In fact, the only difference I can see between the Wards now and the WoW AH is that you have to walk to a retainer to pick up the item instead of walking to your mailbox to pick up your item.
Reminds me of how the EVE market system works. You can readily see all prices, but the lowest price in the region might be in a station several jumps away, so rather than taking a 15-20 minute detour to save some Isk, you'd buy a more expensive part locally.
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#25 Feb 03 2011 at 10:39 AM Rating: Good
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seiferdincht wrote:
Seeing the clone room and zombie seller isn't a good experience so why not cut it completely?
In a game with so little load times the fact that you have to zone between market wards is really annoying.


This is another common complaint with the market wards, but how are a mob of NPC retainers any different than the mob of PC players that will always crowd around an AH/mailbox? In fact, assuming retainers require fewer computer resources to render, the wards are an improvement over an AH by replacing a PC mob with an NPC mob.
#26 Feb 03 2011 at 10:42 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Hydragyrum wrote:
seiferdincht wrote:
Seeing the clone room and zombie seller isn't a good experience so why not cut it completely?
In a game with so little load times the fact that you have to zone between market wards is really annoying.


This is another common complaint with the market wards, but how are a mob of NPC retainers any different than the mob of PC players that will always crowd around an AH/mailbox? In fact, assuming retainers require fewer computer resources to render, the wards are an improvement over an AH by replacing a PC mob with an NPC mob.
You didn't "interact" with the players crowded around the AH. It was the mysterious shaded hole in the wall.

If you didn't push yourself up against the wall and go into first person mode when using the FFXI AH you were very definitively doing it wrong. Not defending their ****** optimization, a trend in basically all of their PC ports including FFXIV, but that's how you made it work.



Edited, Feb 3rd 2011 10:44am by bsphil
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#27 Feb 03 2011 at 12:34 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
Hydragyrum wrote:
seiferdincht wrote:
Seeing the clone room and zombie seller isn't a good experience so why not cut it completely?
In a game with so little load times the fact that you have to zone between market wards is really annoying.


This is another common complaint with the market wards, but how are a mob of NPC retainers any different than the mob of PC players that will always crowd around an AH/mailbox? In fact, assuming retainers require fewer computer resources to render, the wards are an improvement over an AH by replacing a PC mob with an NPC mob.
You didn't "interact" with the players crowded around the AH. It was the mysterious shaded hole in the wall.

If you didn't push yourself up against the wall and go into first person mode when using the FFXI AH you were very definitively doing it wrong. Not defending their sh*tty optimization, a trend in basically all of their PC ports including FFXIV, but that's how you made it work.

Edited, Feb 3rd 2011 10:44am by bsphil


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#28 Feb 03 2011 at 5:46 PM Rating: Good
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Agreed.

I can easily find what I'm looking for at the lowest price available. Win.

#29 Feb 03 2011 at 11:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Isn't this exactly like the WoW style "AH"?


Different type of economies altogether, so it doesn't really mean anything. I don't think anything will be destroyed anytime however, doom & gloom and so on.
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#30 Feb 04 2011 at 1:02 AM Rating: Excellent
Tonight my 13-year-old stepdaughter was playing on her character. I came over to the computer, and she was happily putting items up for sale on her retainer. She then asked me how to find shoes in the market wards... I told her there was a search feature, but that I'd never used it. She found it within a couple minutes, and in no time had it figured out.

I played after she did, and after doing a few behests, some duoing and some leves, I headed to the Market Wards and found some new gear for my Gladiator. I can't believe how much better the Wards are now than they used to be! I'm curious to see the long-term ramifications of the pricing, but for now, kudos to Yoshi-P and the development team for giving us a system that's easy to work with!

A part of me still hopes they're working on an AH, because I feel there are many people who walked away from the game partially because of that. On the other hand, I must admit, I'm starting to wonder if these Wards will work just fine.

If my 13-year-old stepdaughter can figure it out and use them easily, seems like anyone else should be able to.
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#31 Feb 04 2011 at 1:17 AM Rating: Decent
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I would like to see a sale history price. I have a ton of stuff I have no idea what its worth if
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#32 Feb 04 2011 at 2:19 AM Rating: Good
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next update to hit the wards?
Maybe we can just buy the item from the search window yeah!!!! That'd be cool too :)
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#33 Feb 04 2011 at 3:39 AM Rating: Decent
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I have mixed feelings about the new changes.

On one hand, it is definitely an improvement to the old wards. It's easier to see the prices and where in the different wards items are for sale.

On the other, showing the price listing of everything causes excessive undercutting. People have already started doing it, and I can only imagine it will get worse. Also, the current wards feels like a combination of an Auction House + Mog House...except that it's more messy and more time-consuming.

I think my positive feelings for this change slightly triumphs the negative feelings, though. That's good, right? :)

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#34 Feb 04 2011 at 8:25 AM Rating: Good
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Lots of people complaining about price gouging... to be honest its just not happening. For months people have had difficulty buying items and now its a lot easier to find what they want and they can see if the price is cheap enough to bother entering the wards.

My stuff is selling so much faster now.

HOWEVER : Fix the **** ward crashes already. Seriously the entire ward system is useless if the retainers can only manage to stay online for a few hours before bombing out.

If they can fix the crashes then the wards as is are a good enough system and they can move onto more important things... I'm seriously bored of having to check my retainers several times a day just to make sure I'm maximising sales potential...
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#35 Feb 04 2011 at 10:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Yes, this is about as good as it gets short of an AH. I've actually sold stuff I've been trying to sell for weeks now, and it establishes an economic base, which was something badly needed in this game.

I guess I still don't understand their reluctance to an AH? It must be extremely resource intensive. Anyone know?
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#36 Feb 04 2011 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
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Now, they just need to fix how stable the wars are. Yesterday I went to the wards 3 times to check my retainer and all 3 times the entire wards were reset. We got a nice search now but I can't sell or buy anything because the wards are always empty from them resetting.
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#37 Feb 04 2011 at 11:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Yes, this is about as good as it gets short of an AH.


When they enable us to buy the items from the search screen, it's just as good.

Quote:
I guess I still don't understand their reluctance to an AH?


See above. Marketplace is already one feature short of an AH. Why should they abandon it all when they can just implement the last necessary step?
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#38 Feb 05 2011 at 1:05 AM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
Hydragyrum wrote:
In fact, the only difference I can see between the Wards now and the WoW AH is that you have to walk to a retainer to pick up the item instead of walking to your mailbox to pick up your item.
Reminds me of how the EVE market system works. You can readily see all prices, but the lowest price in the region might be in a station several jumps away, so rather than taking a 15-20 minute detour to save some Isk, you'd buy a more expensive part locally.


Except that all the wards here are at the same distance and equally annoying and time-consuming to zone to. ;-) Even if the items were in another city you could just use your anima to zap there.

The new wards are an improvement, but I see no reason for having to run around among these creepy zombies. It's just plain annoying and it ruins the immersion into the gaming world, seing all of these retainers with retarded names in an instanced market ward that doesn't seem connected to the rest of the world. IMHO, cut the retainers out and allow us to buy the stuff from the search menu. Or, why not do an animation or something where the seller comes to you? Why not make it possible to ring a bell for the retainer "ARMOR AND STUFF"? This could even make open-world implementation possible. Imagine cutting out all the wards except one and making that one open-world... you go in, check the board, and ring the bell for the retainer you want. He appears and you can shop from him. If someone else calls him at the same time, they would get the "retainer is unavailable" reply.
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#39 Feb 05 2011 at 4:00 AM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Yes, this is about as good as it gets short of an AH.


When they enable us to buy the items from the search screen, it's just as good.

Under current conditions this is a bad idea. You can't tell if you're buying normal, +1, +2 or +3, and with the limited number displayed it would encourage heavy undercutting more than it needs to. This kind of idea would make more sense if those problems were not there.


Edit: Whoops, missed this earlier...
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:

Honestly, I'm pretty sure that most people asking for "An Auction House" aren't asking for it because they want to actually bid on things. Just like people who asked for "A windower" in FFXI were not asking for the ability to play in a window; they were asking for the ability to alt-tab and use plugins.

It's all in the terminology.

EDIT: More specifically, the terminology does not match the intent.

Edited, Feb 3rd 2011 11:10am by Mikhalia


I actually forgot to get to this point in my earlier post. >_>

Bottom line is, it is safe to say that people use the term 'Auction House' to apply to everything used to support the system because it's just easier than saying 'centralized system, item search, and (remote purchase)/(merchant tracker)' (and whatever else someone intends it to mean) each time. It's like learning the basics of a language as a kid when you don't have another language already learned to help -- apply an image/concept to the term instead.

This just happens to be a bad choice of words for it to catch on.

Edited, Feb 5th 2011 5:50am by Ravashack
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