Forum Settings
       
1 2 3 4 Next »
This Forum is Read Only

Let's talk about "fans" vs. "fleas"...Follow

#152 Feb 10 2011 at 10:58 AM Rating: Default
**
435 posts
Hydragyrum wrote:
You're still acting like being a "flea" is a bad thing. In what other field besides video games is being dedicated to one particular product a bad thing? And no, SE does not need every last player reporting bugs and suggesting fixes. They have plenty of reports and suggestions to keep them busy. It's really ok if 5% (if it's even that large) of the population thinks this game is better than sliced bread. Please, tell me why defending FFXIV is a bad thing.


Being "dedicated" isn't the problem. I'm a pretty dedicated FFXIV fan myself and I've defended it on a few occasions.

But a "flea" is the person who isn't just dedicated but lives for the product as though it were a part of them. They're actually LESS dedicated than a fan because a fan will help the game grow via constructive criticism whereas fleas won't dare criticize the game because it's like criticizing a part of themselves.

A FFXIV flea will defend it from EVERYTHING, even things it doesn't need to be defended from. For example, a player posting about an issue they're having with the user interface would also be met with anger and hostility from fleas, showing them no patience because they "just don't understand" the interface. They don't even consider the possibility that the interface could be made better because, in their mind, the game is already perfection and anyone who doesn't understand that can go to ****.

Quote:
If you get offended or insulted or in some other way can't handle the very minor group of people whose attitude is that this game is better than anything else out there, then that's your own personal problem. Their attitude will have zero impact on game play or development. There's no reason to "change" them other than your own personal little inquisition here.


They're not worth defending.

We're not talking about a group of misunderstood people who deserve a second chance, here. We're talking about the absolute worst kind of self-gratifying sludge to crawl the internet.

Let me give another real world example...

A new nightclub opens for business. The clientele that shows up consists partially of regular people, but a chunk of the clientele is composed of "nightclub snobs". Over time, the regular customers have more and more unpleasant experiences with the snobs, causing them to not return to that nightclub. This is perfectly fine with the snobs, however, as they prefer to feel as though they're part of an elite group because they feel validated by it and any "unworthy" patrons can go to ****, regardless of the fact that those patrons were paying customers and the nightclub needed their business. Soon, the nightclub closes due to lack of business. The snobs simply move elsewhere and set up shop somewhere else where they can feel special for being there.

This is what fleas do. They're simply using FFXIV as their means of feeling special. They have no ACTUAL love for the game and they likely never will. If they did, then they wouldn't choose to drive paying customers away from it because that does much more harm than good.

Fleas are looking less for something to play and enjoy than they are a banner to crusade under, and yes, they exist in every walk of life. I was a flea for a number of things before I wised up and stopped trying to suck validation out of brand names. Scary part is, I saw many fleas who were FAR worse than I ever was (which is one of the things that actually broke me of being a flea).

Quote:
That's for you to figure out, not me.


In other words, no.

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 12:02pm by TheRealDestian
____________________________

#153 Feb 10 2011 at 11:41 AM Rating: Decent
**
800 posts
Well, I'm concluding that you're just delusional. These "fleas" as you describe them don't exist. You're inventing a group of people so you can come out here and purge us of them. It's kinda like a hero complex I guess. Well, guess what, we don't need purging of these "fleas" because they don't exist. Of course there are going to be people on both sides of every discussion here, that's what makes them discussion boards. But just because they don't agree with you does not make them a "flea", does not mean they think FFXIV is absolutely perfect, and does not mean they don't have other criticisms and concerns. It just means they don't agree with you on that one topic.

I'm still waiting for you to show me how in FFXIV (not nightclubs or soft drinks or any other stupid analogy) "fleas" hurt FFXIV, SE, or the playerbase at large. Exactly how do they drive away potential players? How do they make current players quit?
#154 Feb 10 2011 at 1:13 PM Rating: Decent
**
435 posts
Hydragyrum wrote:
Well, I'm concluding that you're just delusional. These "fleas" as you describe them don't exist. You're inventing a group of people so you can come out here and purge us of them. It's kinda like a hero complex I guess. Well, guess what, we don't need purging of these "fleas" because they don't exist. Of course there are going to be people on both sides of every discussion here, that's what makes them discussion boards. But just because they don't agree with you does not make them a "flea", does not mean they think FFXIV is absolutely perfect, and does not mean they don't have other criticisms and concerns. It just means they don't agree with you on that one topic.


If you've never had another poster chew you out because you called a part of the game unintuitive, then you haven't come across one.

Quote:
I'm still waiting for you to show me how in FFXIV (not nightclubs or soft drinks or any other stupid analogy) "fleas" hurt FFXIV, SE, or the playerbase at large. Exactly how do they drive away potential players? How do they make current players quit?


1. Fleas antagonize newer players for asking questions or making suggestions to improve the game. Since I've come to these forums, I've been told at least 10 times that I'm "playing wrong" when experiencing a bug or expressing an opinion about how the game could be made less confusing or streamlining the interface. How much does it take to drive a newer player away? When they're already unsure about the game (especially if they got it as a gift or something) then it won't take very much.

2. Fleas give the community a bad name and that name tends to stick. If a person's experience with FFXIV players consists of primarily trying in vain to defend the opinion that monster difficulty isn't clear (because some mobs are still easily soloed while red while others have 1HKOs while blue), then they're not going to stick around to wait for when the game becomes pay to play.

When people get the impression that the fleas represent the majority of the playerbase, they'll avoid that game like the plague and advise everyone else to do the same. FFXIV doesn't need that right now.

I don't know what your experience with other MMOs and forums have been like, but I've been all over and seen dozens of different forums. In most cases, the fleas are kept at bay by sensible posters who are helpful (we have a few of those here, but we could always use more). In some cases, the fleas run rampant, like in the case of the Smashworld forums.

If you haven't experienced this, all I can say is "Lucky you" and I hope that you can still see where I'm coming from about people like this.

If you want to call it "flea behavior", fine. It's not like people can't change. I've just seen some diehard fleas over the years (mainly Nintendo fleas) and I've seen firsthand that they can do MORE damage to a community (and a playerbase) than you'd think.

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 2:17pm by TheRealDestian
____________________________

#155 Feb 10 2011 at 1:33 PM Rating: Good
**
800 posts
Finally it makes sense to me. What you call a "flea" is simply a forum troll. Notice how all your examples are about behavior on the forums? (If you never visit forums suddenly these "fleas" that plague FFXIV disappear.) They've existed since internet forums were invented. This is nothing new and does not need a new label, let alone an entire thread about their existence. Rate them down and move on with your life, that's what everyone else does. Trolls only get worse when you give them attention such as this thread. If you ignore them they'll move on to sportier game. Contrary to the editorial, trolls exist in all shapes, colors, and more importantly; viewpoints. Someone who tells you you're "doing it wrong" is a good old fashioned troll. Nothing more nothing less. Ignore them and move on.

Maybe you just need to take a break from Zam. It can really drag you down sometimes. Spend more time in-game where the people enjoying FFXIV actually spend their free time.

Did you really need to coin a term, and start a thread because you realized that some people are arrogant on internet forums?

Don't feed the trolls!

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 1:34pm by Hydragyrum
#156 Feb 10 2011 at 1:47 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
1,609 posts
WEll, I didn't hit my goal for the day...but I still ran 8 miles! LOL

Did I derail the thread yet or am I epically failing? -_-;

Look squirrel!
____________________________


"I've never watched a nuclear explosion myself. That's a couple of degrees of stupid above my limit"- Old Man Harris
#157 Feb 10 2011 at 2:04 PM Rating: Excellent
*****
11,539 posts
Hydragyrum wrote:
some people are arrogant on internet forums


I don't buy this for a second. You mean to claim that the internet isn't made up of nice people who **** rainbows and love everyone? You, sir, are a liar, and I demand you retract your comment, lest I hug you slightly less.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#158 Feb 10 2011 at 3:05 PM Rating: Good
***
3,178 posts
Spyrit178 wrote:
White Birch Beer is better than Root Beer.

Is it made from sugar cane? No? No sugar cane = no win.

Except for Blue Moon.


Tiger228 wrote:
at least the argument seems to be taking a lighter tone.

Mission accomplished!


LillithaFenimore wrote:
Yeah I used to workout a lot before my husband and I were expecting...then had to do the tiny baby thing for a year before I could go back...and I can't do half the stuff I want to do because life is a bit more complicated...so I'll take running over nothing :)

Ya me too. We ended up with surprise triplets. They are 5 now. I joined the local Men's Roller Derby team to help stay in shape. Now exercise = relaxation. What the **** happened?! Oh yeah, triplets.


Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
lest I hug you slightly less

Hey hey, no need to threaten people. You really should wait until evening to start drinking Mik.


Edited, Feb 10th 2011 4:06pm by RufuSwho
#159 Feb 10 2011 at 3:10 PM Rating: Good
****
9,526 posts
Spyrit178 wrote:


White Birch Beer is better than Root Beer.


White Bark beer is better than both
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#160 Feb 10 2011 at 4:27 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
1,609 posts
RufuSwho wrote:
Spyrit178 wrote:
White Birch Beer is better than Root Beer.

Is it made from sugar cane? No? No sugar cane = no win.

Except for Blue Moon.


Tiger228 wrote:
at least the argument seems to be taking a lighter tone.

Mission accomplished!


LillithaFenimore wrote:
Yeah I used to workout a lot before my husband and I were expecting...then had to do the tiny baby thing for a year before I could go back...and I can't do half the stuff I want to do because life is a bit more complicated...so I'll take running over nothing :)

Ya me too. We ended up with surprise triplets. They are 5 now. I joined the local Men's Roller Derby team to help stay in shape. Now exercise = relaxation. What the **** happened?! Oh yeah, triplets.


Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
lest I hug you slightly less

Hey hey, no need to threaten people. You really should wait until evening to start drinking Mik.


Edited, Feb 10th 2011 4:06pm by RufuSwho



Yeah, kids throw wrenches into lots of things...but I <3 my kid :) And I don't mind taking a year or two off :P It was nice :)
____________________________


"I've never watched a nuclear explosion myself. That's a couple of degrees of stupid above my limit"- Old Man Harris
#161 Feb 10 2011 at 10:11 PM Rating: Decent
**
435 posts
Hydragyrum wrote:
Finally it makes sense to me. What you call a "flea" is simply a forum troll. Notice how all your examples are about behavior on the forums? (If you never visit forums suddenly these "fleas" that plague FFXIV disappear.) They've existed since internet forums were invented. This is nothing new and does not need a new label, let alone an entire thread about their existence. Rate them down and move on with your life, that's what everyone else does. Trolls only get worse when you give them attention such as this thread. If you ignore them they'll move on to sportier game. Contrary to the editorial, trolls exist in all shapes, colors, and more importantly; viewpoints. Someone who tells you you're "doing it wrong" is a good old fashioned troll. Nothing more nothing less. Ignore them and move on.


"Fleas" and "trolls" are archenemies: fleas are primary targets of trolls because they're the absolute easiest to get a rise out of, and that's all trolls are here to do.

For example, if a troll posted on this forum "Why did FFXIV rip so much off of WoW?", the fleas would all go insane, much to the troll's total amusement.

But it's not like the fleas are being helpful, either. It can actually be worse when a flea attacks a newer player than a troll because the flea will give the appearance of being very much into the game whereas most trolls are only half into it. This gives the false impression that FFXIV players are like that flea.

If we had to make comparisons, trolls are the anarchist, chaotic side of the coin while fleas are the totalitarian, order at whatever cost side, and neither one is particularly good for business.
____________________________

#162 Feb 11 2011 at 9:49 AM Rating: Good
**
800 posts
TheRealDestian wrote:
Hydragyrum wrote:
Finally it makes sense to me. What you call a "flea" is simply a forum troll. Notice how all your examples are about behavior on the forums? (If you never visit forums suddenly these "fleas" that plague FFXIV disappear.) They've existed since internet forums were invented. This is nothing new and does not need a new label, let alone an entire thread about their existence. Rate them down and move on with your life, that's what everyone else does. Trolls only get worse when you give them attention such as this thread. If you ignore them they'll move on to sportier game. Contrary to the editorial, trolls exist in all shapes, colors, and more importantly; viewpoints. Someone who tells you you're "doing it wrong" is a good old fashioned troll. Nothing more nothing less. Ignore them and move on.


"Fleas" and "trolls" are archenemies: fleas are primary targets of trolls because they're the absolute easiest to get a rise out of, and that's all trolls are here to do.

For example, if a troll posted on this forum "Why did FFXIV rip so much off of WoW?", the fleas would all go insane, much to the troll's total amusement.

But it's not like the fleas are being helpful, either. It can actually be worse when a flea attacks a newer player than a troll because the flea will give the appearance of being very much into the game whereas most trolls are only half into it. This gives the false impression that FFXIV players are like that flea.

If we had to make comparisons, trolls are the anarchist, chaotic side of the coin while fleas are the totalitarian, order at whatever cost side, and neither one is particularly good for business.


No, you still don't get it. I don't mean trolls the way the editorial here invented new names for old behaviors (Trolls vs. White Knights). I mean the good old fashioned forum trolls that have existed long before Final Fantasy XIV. What you're calling a "flea" is just a forum troll that worships FFXIV. What you call a "troll" is a forum troll who hates FFXIV. They're both trolls! The sole purpose of a troll is to get a reaction out of a normal forum poster.

This whole "flea" nonsense is just giving a name to a subset of the well understood troll. It's not new, doesn't deserve this kind of attention, and most certainly isn't affecting the health of FFXIV at large. Afterall, if "fleas" were threatening the longevity of FFXIV then shouldn't the hater troll be hurting FFXIV just as much? Where's the thread about getting rid of the haters?

I realize now that we're just arguing semantics. Can we agree that whatever label you give them, people like this are jerks and annoying? Can we agree that they probably aren't going anywhere as long as the internet is anonymous? Can we also agree that as long as you put your troll filter on, they aren't affecting anyone? There's a reason they're called trolls. Trolls are ugly monsters who hide under bridges in order to ambush travelers. They don't have the courage to venture out into cities and they don't have the strength to fight a fair fight. Forum trolls are no different, and as long as you ignore them, they'll stay under their bridge.
#163 Feb 11 2011 at 9:52 AM Rating: Excellent
***
3,178 posts
Why do you have to label everyone?

Are you a Labeler?
#164 Feb 11 2011 at 10:58 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
2,153 posts
Let's make a poll.
Generally, I tend to vote "on saturdays".
#165 Feb 11 2011 at 11:00 AM Rating: Decent
**
435 posts
Hydragyrum wrote:
I realize now that we're just arguing semantics. Can we agree that whatever label you give them, people like this are jerks and annoying? Can we agree that they probably aren't going anywhere as long as the internet is anonymous? Can we also agree that as long as you put your troll filter on, they aren't affecting anyone?


I agree that they're definitely jerks and annoying, but the difference is still pretty substantial, and I also strongly believe that, yes, they ARE affecting people, mainly newer players who ask legitimate questions or raise concerns.

A flea is someone who "loves" something so much that they feel anyone who loves it less doesn't deserve it. This is why fleas become irate at even the most minor questions, concerns or gripes with the game. To a flea, even a newer player asking how to do something is an insult because "It's not the game's fault. I figured it out JUST fine! You're just too dumb to figure it out!".

In the mind of the flea, they'd rather that person not play the game at all because they don't approve of them, regardless of the overall damage that's doing to the company by the way of losing customers.

I can handle trolls as trolls generally don't bother trolling suggestion threads because there are better ways to get a rise out of people. It's being told I'm an idiot because I think the user interface needs work that gets old awfully fast.
____________________________

#166 Feb 11 2011 at 11:07 AM Rating: Good
***
3,178 posts
Oh come now, calling someone a "Labeler" is classic. Don't you get it? *sigh*
#167 Feb 11 2011 at 11:19 AM Rating: Good
**
800 posts
TheRealDestian wrote:
I can handle trolls as trolls generally don't bother trolling suggestion threads because there are better ways to get a rise out of people. It's being told I'm an idiot because I think the user interface needs work that gets old awfully fast.


So you rate them down and move on. I still don't see why this is such a big deal. People are going to disagree with you throughout your entire life. Some will be polite about it, others will be rude. That's life. No need to coin a new term and start a crusade against them. And they're certainly not going to stop being rude because you say so. If anything that just encourages them to attack you even more.

RufuSwho wrote:
Oh come now, calling someone a "Labeler" is classic. Don't you get it? *sigh*


I got it. I was just too busy discussing serious matters to reply. :)
#168 Feb 11 2011 at 11:39 AM Rating: Good
***
3,178 posts
I don't find the differentiation between fles, fans, fanboys, white knights, trolls or any other mystical creatures bred for their powers in magic to be a serious matter. Forgive me please. ;)
#169 Feb 11 2011 at 11:57 AM Rating: Default
**
435 posts
RufuSwho wrote:
Oh come now, calling someone a "Labeler" is classic. Don't you get it? *sigh*


Irony noted. ;)

Hydragyrum wrote:
So you rate them down and move on. I still don't see why this is such a big deal. People are going to disagree with you throughout your entire life. Some will be polite about it, others will be rude. That's life. No need to coin a new term and start a crusade against them. And they're certainly not going to stop being rude because you say so. If anything that just encourages them to attack you even more.


I'd rather make people consciously aware of the behavior for a couple of reasons...

1. Being a flea isn't being like a troll in the same sense. A flea may be doing this without realizing it. A troll is only here to laugh at people's reactions.

2. I've experienced so many forum communities where no one commented on it and it went on unabated, whereas drawing it out into the open disarms it.

Like I said, if you call a troll a troll, they don't care (in fact, they'll probably enjoy it), but being called a flea is cause for some introspection.

No, most people aren't going to see it that way because they're still too mired in being fleas (as I used to be) but if even one person looks at that and says, "I guess I shouldn't take my enjoyment of FFXIV so seriously that I can't leave newer players alone for asking simple questions or expressing criticism about the game." then I've helped someone reach the conclusion that it took me YEARS to come to on my own.

Edited, Feb 11th 2011 4:30pm by TheRealDestian
____________________________

#170 Feb 11 2011 at 12:26 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
*****
12,709 posts
TheRealDestian wrote:
if even one person looks at that and says, "I guess I shouldn't take my enjoyment of FFXIV so seriously..." then I've helped someone reach the conclusion that it took me YEARS to come to on my own.


So wait...

It is basically saying someone who actually enjoys the game are fleas? So I think I got it figured out now!

Fans = People who hate the game

Fleas = People who enjoy the game even at this point in time.

____________________________

#171 Feb 11 2011 at 3:29 PM Rating: Decent
**
435 posts
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
TheRealDestian wrote:
if even one person looks at that and says, "I guess I shouldn't take my enjoyment of FFXIV so seriously..." then I've helped someone reach the conclusion that it took me YEARS to come to on my own.


So wait...

It is basically saying someone who actually enjoys the game are fleas? So I think I got it figured out now!

Fans = People who hate the game

Fleas = People who enjoy the game even at this point in time.



Allow me to finish that sentence...

"I guess I shouldn't take my enjoyment of FFXIV so seriously that I can't leave newer players alone for asking simple questions or expressing criticism about the game."
____________________________

#172 Feb 12 2011 at 1:36 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
1,339 posts
Disappointed with OP.

It was 4am when I saw the topic and thought it said "Flans vs. Fleas". I was scrambling around in my brain to try to remember when we actually had a monster type actually called "Flea" (outside of Chrono Trigger) and drew a blank :(
#173 Feb 12 2011 at 1:48 AM Rating: Excellent
I think all the OP is saying is that people who enjoy the game should be careful not to become complacent fanbois, which I agree with. It's just like saying people who no longer play shouldn't be lurking around just for the sake of being uninformed trolls, which I also agree with.

Why is this so many pages?

Edited, Feb 11th 2011 11:48pm by Thayos
____________________________
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
#174 Feb 12 2011 at 1:51 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
386 posts
Thayos wrote:
I think all the OP is saying is that people who enjoy the game should be careful not to become complacent fanbois, which I agree with. It's just like saying people who no longer play shouldn't be lurking around just for the sake of being uninformed trolls, which I also agree with.

Why is this so many pages?

Edited, Feb 11th 2011 11:48pm by Thayos


Aside from his need to make a new derogatory label for a subcategory of forum posters (at least that's how I perceive it), I'm sure it would take several more pages to explain why there's so many pages.
#175 Feb 12 2011 at 9:25 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
1,609 posts
No clue. I've tried derailing it so many times but my efforts were futile... So why don't you try and derail it.
____________________________


"I've never watched a nuclear explosion myself. That's a couple of degrees of stupid above my limit"- Old Man Harris
#176 Feb 12 2011 at 9:50 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
*****
12,709 posts
Thayos wrote:
I think all the OP is saying is that people who enjoy the game should be careful not to become complacent fanbois, which I agree with. It's just like saying people who no longer play shouldn't be lurking around just for the sake of being uninformed trolls, which I also agree with.

Why is this so many pages?

Edited, Feb 11th 2011 11:48pm by Thayos


However it ignores the fact that if you say anything neutral, positive or supporting you get labeled a "complacent fanboi", merely because you aren't railing on something.
____________________________

#177 Feb 12 2011 at 10:13 AM Rating: Excellent
I think "flea" is really an acronym which stands for "F*&ing 'Leet Eorzea Assassin."
____________________________
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
#178 Feb 12 2011 at 11:56 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
180 posts
Thayos wrote:
I think "flea" is really an acronym which stands for "F*&ing 'Leet Eorzea Assassin."


Then I gladly accept this FLEA label Smiley: grin
____________________________
FFXI: PLD BST BRD RDM SAM PUP


#179 Feb 12 2011 at 6:38 PM Rating: Excellent
So if blind fans = fleas, then I propose that blind trolls = ticks.

A tick starts out as regular gamer who becomes unhappy with a game. The tick feels so empowered by criticizing the game that he continues posting overly critical and downtrodden posts, even after noticeable improvements have been made. Feeding this sense of empowerment means burrowing deeper and deeper into his own arguments.

Eventually, the tick buries his head so deep that there's no way to be normal again.
____________________________
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
#180 Feb 14 2011 at 4:59 PM Rating: Decent
**
435 posts
Thayos wrote:
So if blind fans = fleas, then I propose that blind trolls = ticks.

A tick starts out as regular gamer who becomes unhappy with a game. The tick feels so empowered by criticizing the game that he continues posting overly critical and downtrodden posts, even after noticeable improvements have been made. Feeding this sense of empowerment means burrowing deeper and deeper into his own arguments.

Eventually, the tick buries his head so deep that there's no way to be normal again.


I like it, and I've actually seen many people who meet this criteria as well!

Both fleas and ticks suck and ultimately bring nothing to the game.

I think trolls are still a different species, as ticks aren't there to get a rise out of people but just to complain about things that there's no sense complaining about.

____________________________

#181 Feb 14 2011 at 5:07 PM Rating: Decent
**
435 posts
ThePacster wrote:
Aside from his need to make a new derogatory label for a subcategory of forum posters (at least that's how I perceive it), I'm sure it would take several more pages to explain why there's so many pages.


The first step toward culling this kind of behavior is putting a name to it.

In what parallel universe do trolls not troll because no one calls them trolls?

I think "flea" is quite succinct and makes people aware of how they're being perceived.

Mistress Theonehio wrote:
However it ignores the fact that if you say anything neutral, positive or supporting you get labeled a "complacent fanboi", merely because you aren't railing on something.


My OP states quite clearly that "fleas" are defined as people who have no tolerance for anyone who questions the game or criticizes it. In no way shape or form have I EVER said that fleas are people who have nothing bad to say.

People have a right to have nothing bad to say. They don't have a right to viciously attack someone for legitimate criticism or even suggesting that something could be made better.
____________________________

#182 Feb 14 2011 at 5:25 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
*
225 posts
This thread is starting to make me feel itchy. Don't you sick people know better than to talk about fleas and ticks in front of a cat!!!!???

Edited, Feb 14th 2011 6:27pm by Spyrit178
____________________________


#183 Feb 14 2011 at 5:34 PM Rating: Decent
**
435 posts
Spyrit178 wrote:
This thread is starting to make me feel itchy. Don't you sick people know better than to talk about fleas and ticks in front of a cat!!!!?


High-level alchemist/leatherworkers should be able to make flea collars.
____________________________

#184 Feb 14 2011 at 6:12 PM Rating: Decent
*
213 posts
he was talking about you, you're the tick.
____________________________


#185 Feb 14 2011 at 7:40 PM Rating: Decent
**
435 posts
BadJoRed wrote:
he was talking about you, you're the tick.


Read it again:
"A tick starts out as regular gamer who becomes unhappy with a game. The tick feels so empowered by criticizing the game that he continues posting overly critical and downtrodden posts, even after noticeable improvements have been made. Feeding this sense of empowerment means burrowing deeper and deeper into his own arguments."

I'm quite happy with the improvements (I was even one of the few people who thought we didn't need an AH and that the wards worked well). I post piles of suggestion threads in the forums that the devs actually read and I think this game has potential and I'm anxious to see what Yoshi-P does with it.

I'm happy with the game, just not some of the people who play it.
____________________________

#186 Feb 14 2011 at 7:45 PM Rating: Decent
36 posts
All this talk about ticks and fleas.... What about the obvious pink elephant in the room?


just sayin...
#187 Feb 14 2011 at 8:36 PM Rating: Excellent
*
213 posts

cleary you are mistaken, he is not talking about me being a tick, A tick is an arachnid, and I am a human being. Of course he wasn't talking about me :D
____________________________


#188 Feb 14 2011 at 9:35 PM Rating: Decent
**
435 posts
BadJoRed wrote:
cleary you are mistaken, he is not talking about me being a tick,


Neither was I.

But I've seen some "ticks" in the past and I know just the sort of person he's talking about.

I used to post on a Nintendo forum a while back and there was this one guy who was always going on and on about how Nintendo was past its heyday. He's bemoan the fact that none of the new games were ever as good as the "classics" and no matter how people tried to argue with him, he wouldn't relent in his view that Nintendo was doomed and that the golden age of gaming was dead and gone forever. This same forum had plenty of Nintendo fleas who hated his guts, but he wouldn't be swayed.

He was the DEFINITION of a tick: his head was burrowed in his own delusions of what Nintendo should be to the point where he could see nothing but his own argument.
____________________________

#189 Feb 14 2011 at 9:40 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
**
386 posts
TheRealDestian wrote:
ThePacster wrote:
Aside from his need to make a new derogatory label for a subcategory of forum posters (at least that's how I perceive it), I'm sure it would take several more pages to explain why there's so many pages.


The first step toward culling this kind of behavior is putting a name to it.

In what parallel universe do trolls not troll because no one calls them trolls?

I think "flea" is quite succinct and makes people aware of how they're being perceived.


It makes people aware of how you perceive them, please don't think you can speak on behalf of everyone. And in regards to your question, I'm not sure but are you asking in what scenario a behavior does not occur because it's not labeled? I find that a ridiculous thing to ask. Just because there isn't a word for an action (at least in whatever language you're speaking) doesn't mean it cannot be expressed. Should such a nameless action come into being, it simply boils down to how one decides to label it.

While those who tend to post inflammatory remarks in chat rooms and message boards have inevitably been labeled "trolls", I can't say how the term came about but I can say that I don't use the term. While the general consensus is that the term is appropriate, I don't see the need to use labels that, in my opinion, would simply prod them on to continue their inflammatory actions.

Hydragyrum wrote:
just because they don't agree with you does not make them a "flea", does not mean they think FFXIV is absolutely perfect, and does not mean they don't have other criticisms and concerns. It just means they don't agree with you on that one topic.


I'm going to have to agree with Hydragyrum here. I have yet to see any posters here on the forums that claim the game in all is aspects is flawless and anyone who thinks otherwise is clueless.

TheRealDestian wrote:
If you've never had another poster chew you out because you called a part of the game unintuitive, then you haven't come across one.


If someone chewed me out because I called a part of the game unintuitive... then obviously we disagree on whatever that part of the game is. You can make hypothetical examples all you want, but unless you can find a few examples of posters trying to back the game being flawless in its entirety, I'd imagine you're going to have trouble seeing eye to eye with people on this new term you're trying to coin.

But in short, you can most certainly begin to correct a behavior by putting a name on it, but why does it have to be such a negative and belittling name?
#190TheRealDestian, Posted: Feb 14 2011 at 11:19 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) "Troll" is an equally negative and belittling name, but no one seems to cry foul when people call each other trolls because everyone accepts that trolls and troll-like behavior are bad for the community and bad for the game.
#191 Feb 15 2011 at 7:49 AM Rating: Good
**
800 posts
TheRealDestian wrote:
Fleas won't say that because even they know it's a losing battle. Instead, they'll attempt to pick apart individual complaints or criticisms about the game one at a time.

If the flea can "invalidate" criticisms by proving that the person with the issue is "doing it wrong", then they feel they've successfully defended the game from attack.


Let me get this straight. A "Flea" is someone who blindly believes the game is perfect in every way and that anyone who says otherwise is "doing it wrong", and yet a "flea" will never actually admit to that belief because it's a "losing battle" indicating that they know other people think there are serious problems.

So first of all we have a contradiction in that someone who blindly thinks the game is perfect also knows that the game is not perfect. Secondly, since they'll never own up to being a "flea" it's impossible to distinguish a true "flea" from someone who just disagrees with you on one topic. Don't you see how this label cannot possibly cause any good? All it's doing is allowing posters to dismiss possibly valid arguments by calling the other poster a "flea".

Of course this doesn't even get into the possibility that you really are "doing it wrong", but that's another discussion.
#192 Feb 15 2011 at 11:17 AM Rating: Decent
***
2,214 posts
Hydragyrum wrote:
TheRealDestian wrote:
Fleas won't say that because even they know it's a losing battle. Instead, they'll attempt to pick apart individual complaints or criticisms about the game one at a time.

If the flea can "invalidate" criticisms by proving that the person with the issue is "doing it wrong", then they feel they've successfully defended the game from attack.


Let me get this straight. A "Flea" is someone who blindly believes the game is perfect in every way and that anyone who says otherwise is "doing it wrong", and yet a "flea" will never actually admit to that belief because it's a "losing battle" indicating that they know other people think there are serious problems.

So first of all we have a contradiction in that someone who blindly thinks the game is perfect also knows that the game is not perfect. Secondly, since they'll never own up to being a "flea" it's impossible to distinguish a true "flea" from someone who just disagrees with you on one topic. Don't you see how this label cannot possibly cause any good? All it's doing is allowing posters to dismiss possibly valid arguments by calling the other poster a "flea".

Of course this doesn't even get into the possibility that you really are "doing it wrong", but that's another discussion.

So, does that make this forum a flea circus?
Fan: "Wow, look at the flea on the trapeze!"
#193 Feb 19 2011 at 1:08 PM Rating: Decent
**
435 posts
Hydragyrum wrote:
Let me get this straight. A "Flea" is someone who blindly believes the game is perfect in every way and that anyone who says otherwise is "doing it wrong", and yet a "flea" will never actually admit to that belief because it's a "losing battle" indicating that they know other people think there are serious problems.


Precisely.

In their heart of hearts, most fleas believe the game is perfect, but they know that if they come right out and say that, they'll be laughed at and immediately dismissed.

It's the same tactic employed by the tobacco industry (watch the movie "Thank You for Smoking" sometime for a full look at this, great movie too!): they know that if they came right out and said that cigarettes aren't bad for you, they'd be called out on it. So instead, they choose to say "Prove that they're bad for you" and then pick apart all of the studies and findings that suggest the're bad for you. They even say it in the movie: "You don't need to prove yourself right. You just need to make the other person look bad in some way and you win the argument."

It's a common tactic used by fleas. They know they can't say the game is fine or they'll be attacked but they can still nitpick every criticism in the hopes of invalidating it.

Quote:
So first of all we have a contradiction in that someone who blindly thinks the game is perfect also knows that the game is not perfect. Secondly, since they'll never own up to being a "flea" it's impossible to distinguish a true "flea" from someone who just disagrees with you on one topic. Don't you see how this label cannot possibly cause any good? All it's doing is allowing posters to dismiss possibly valid arguments by calling the other poster a "flea".


I think flea-like behavior is probably the easiest to spot, even easier than trolling. Right now, fleas are more than happy to dismiss anyone who has a valid criticism as a troll so I don't see why we shouldn't have a name for them as well.

Quote:
Of course this doesn't even get into the possibility that you really are "doing it wrong", but that's another discussion.


Doubtful, as a number of my suggested changes made it onto the latest player poll.

I'm not saying that those came directly from me, but issues I raised are the same issues that the devs have decided to look at, meaning that they clearly don't think I'm doing it wrong when I take issue with it.

A lot of my suggestions come down to making the interface less cumbersome, and I've been told I'm "doing it wrong" for making suggestions to improve it. It's like wanting a dishwasher is "doing it wrong" because you can do dishes by hand...

Edited, Feb 19th 2011 3:44pm by TheRealDestian
____________________________

#194 Feb 19 2011 at 2:34 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
I think flea-like behavior is probably the easiest to spot, even easier than trolling. Right now, fleas are more than happy to dismiss anyone who has a valid criticism as a troll so I don't see why we shouldn't have a name for them as well.


Disagree here, ticks are just as easy to spot as fleas.
____________________________
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
#195 Feb 19 2011 at 2:43 PM Rating: Default
**
435 posts
Thayos wrote:
Disagree here, ticks are just as easy to spot as fleas.


True, but I just meant between fleas and trolls.

Ticks are actually the EASIEST to spot of all forum malcontents because A) they don't try to hide the fact that they're a tick and B) the incessant rambling about "the way things used to be" and "how it oughta be" generate walls of text so large they can be seen from space.
____________________________

1 2 3 4 Next »
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 13 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (13)