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Astral vs. Umbral MagicFollow

#1 Feb 04 2011 at 10:07 AM Rating: Decent
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What exactly is the distinction here? Is it fire/ice/wind vs earth/lightning/water, or is it moon phase related, i.e. - full vs. new.
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#2 Feb 04 2011 at 10:49 AM Rating: Decent
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The way i see it is, astral would be referrin to light damage or magic. In XI, this wad things like Dia, Holy, Banish and Flash. So Umbral would be the opposite. Many of the THM spells mention umbral, so i think that would be the opposite of dia, dark magic.

I dont think it would have anything to do with moon phase, as of yet. Anyone else know?

Edited, Feb 4th 2011 11:50am by LillithaFenimore
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#3 Feb 04 2011 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
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Even if it did, like all other stats/mods it's not properly tuned. Astral = Light and Umbral = Dark in short.
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#4 Feb 04 2011 at 11:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Uhm you got the elements wrong. It's Earth, Water, Ice vs. Lightning, Wind, Fire.
Here's a tip: all the dark elementals you could hold in your hands.
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#5 Feb 04 2011 at 11:16 AM Rating: Excellent
Early on in beta (if any of you remember) there were actually light and dark attributes as well as earth, wind, fire etc. In removing them they made you use element combinations to get your boosts from cetain spells. As far as I can tell moon phase doesnt seem to play any part in it. The reason I say this is that I have used Scourge II (umbral) many many times so far since I started playing and I have never noticed a discernable boost in damage output.
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#6 Feb 04 2011 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
RedGalka wrote:
Uhm you got the elements wrong. It's Earth, Water, Ice vs. Lightning, Wind, Fire.
Here's a tip: all the dark elementals you could hold in your hands.

Wow never thought of that before - rate up - thank you for helping me remember this forever! :)
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#7 Feb 04 2011 at 11:19 AM Rating: Decent
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RedGalka wrote:
Uhm you got the elements wrong. It's Earth, Water, Ice vs. Lightning, Wind, Fire.
Here's a tip: all the dark elementals you could hold in your hands.


Actually, you got it wrong. Thanks to Lux Lex for pointing out this can be found in "The Call to Adventure" at any aetheryte.

Earth grounds lightning. Lightning boils water. Water erodes Earth.
I forget the exact relationships between Fire/Ice/Wind, but that's the other triangle.

I believe the first triangle is 'Umbral' and the second, 'Astral', but I'm not certain.
As pointed out above, though, certain THM/CON spells have a general Astral/Umbral affinity. It's unclear to me whether or not casting Dia and then Fire will amp fire damage as opposed to generic Astral damage like Radiance.

EDIT: I'm sorry, we're both wrong! All 6 elements have both Astral and Umbral affinities:
http://www.eorzeapedia.com/wiki/en/Astral

The triangles I listed, though, are correct.

Edited, Feb 4th 2011 12:22pm by volta1
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#8 Feb 04 2011 at 12:20 PM Rating: Decent
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RedGalka wrote:
Uhm you got the elements wrong. It's Earth, Water, Ice vs. Lightning, Wind, Fire.
Here's a tip: all the dark elementals you could hold in your hands.


Rate up! Easy to remember tip!

[edit]

I am not sure of anything anymore and I am so confused

Edited, Feb 4th 2011 10:21am by Olorinus
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#9 Feb 04 2011 at 12:27 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
RedGalka wrote:
Uhm you got the elements wrong. It's Earth, Water, Ice vs. Lightning, Wind, Fire.
Here's a tip: all the dark elementals you could hold in your hands.


Rate up! Easy to remember tip!

[edit]

I am not sure of anything anymore and I am so confused

Edited, Feb 4th 2011 10:21am by Olorinus


**** it, Lux! I even gave you props in the post with the *correct* information...
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#10 Feb 04 2011 at 12:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
In removing them they made you use element combinations to get your boosts from cetain spells


Yeah people keep saying that, but as I have pointed out in the Thm forums already: It does not work!.
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#11 Feb 04 2011 at 12:39 PM Rating: Decent
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volta1 wrote:
**** it, Lux! I even gave you props in the post with the *correct* information...


I appreciate the props but they are two different, interconnected systems - at least as far as I can tell. Like I said, I am not sure anymore.

Edited, Feb 4th 2011 10:40am by Olorinus
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#12 Feb 04 2011 at 12:41 PM Rating: Decent
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#13 Feb 04 2011 at 1:09 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
volta1 wrote:
**** it, Lux! I even gave you props in the post with the *correct* information...


I appreciate the props but they are two different, interconnected systems - at least as far as I can tell. Like I said, I am not sure anymore.

Edited, Feb 4th 2011 10:40am by Olorinus


Quote:
EDIT: I'm sorry, we're both wrong! All 6 elements have both Astral and Umbral affinities:
http://www.eorzeapedia.com/wiki/en/Astral

The triangles I listed, though, are correct.


Sorry, need to be more clear:

Astral = light, Umbral = dark

Earth/Lightning/Water, Fire/Ice/Wind are elemental triangles

All 6 elements have 'polarity' - part Astral, part Umbral.

What red galka said about "tangible" (holding in your hand) is umbral is not correct. All 6 of the elements are both astral and umbral.

There are separate astral/umbral spells like Dia, Radiance, Scourge, Stygian Spikes, etc. Note that these are non-elemental in nature.

Hopefully this makes it less confusing.
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#14 Feb 04 2011 at 2:37 PM Rating: Good
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volta1 wrote:
Sorry, need to be more clear:

Astral = light, Umbral = dark

Earth/Lightning/Water, Fire/Ice/Wind are elemental triangles

All 6 elements have 'polarity' - part Astral, part Umbral.

What red galka said about "tangible" (holding in your hand) is umbral is not correct. All 6 of the elements are both astral and umbral.

There are separate astral/umbral spells like Dia, Radiance, Scourge, Stygian Spikes, etc. Note that these are non-elemental in nature.

Hopefully this makes it less confusing.



The above is the correct answer.

And the two elemental "triangles" are:

Fire > Ice > Wind > Fire
The idea is "fire melts ice, ice blocks wind, wind blows out fire."

Water > Earth > Lightning > Water
The idea is "water erodes earth, earth grounds lightning, lightning shocks through water."


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#15 Feb 04 2011 at 3:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Also, try throwing Scourge on a mob and then smacking it with Damnation. Scourge lowers it's Umbral defense and then Damnation hits it with Umbral damage. I've always hit harder and more consistently that way.
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#16 Feb 04 2011 at 3:34 PM Rating: Decent
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the triangles are like an elemental form of rock , paper, scissors............ ya sorry
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#17 Feb 04 2011 at 4:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Lol that makes me think of the episode of avatar where thay did play rock paper scissors with elaments

But back on topic since the elaments all have some astral and umbral aspects would that leave piaty and int. To be the modifiers ?
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#18 Feb 06 2011 at 12:20 AM Rating: Decent
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delioo wrote:
But back on topic since the elaments all have some astral and umbral aspects would that leave piaty and int. To be the modifiers ?


Not quite sure I understand your question, but Int increases your overall damage and Pie increases accuracy (less chance of resisting).

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