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New item stack feature Broken?Follow

#1 Feb 04 2011 at 1:15 PM Rating: Decent
Ingots and other items that were stacked at 12 now can be stacked up to 99, but I cant get them into anything more than stacks of 12.

Anyone else having this problem?
#2 Feb 04 2011 at 1:17 PM Rating: Decent
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182 posts
Add the items you want stacked to your bazaar or retainer then add them back to your inventory and they should be stacked now.
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#3 Feb 04 2011 at 1:19 PM Rating: Default
Ok, now my ore is doing this too... I have 12/99 zinc ore 3 times over... Ugh.
#4 Feb 04 2011 at 1:25 PM Rating: Default
the bazaar trick worked, thanks man.
#5 Feb 04 2011 at 1:26 PM Rating: Default
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17 posts
The best way i found that works the fastest is give all the stuff u want to stack between u and ur retainer. It will then auto stack once u move it all over. Sure it takes up a little time but its worth freeing up all the space
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#6 Feb 04 2011 at 1:29 PM Rating: Default
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182 posts
BushwicktheBlack wrote:
the bazaar trick worked, thanks man.


No problem.
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#7 Feb 04 2011 at 1:30 PM Rating: Excellent
This is a perfect example of how parts of the game have defianitely been upgraded, but still need more polish.
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#8 Feb 04 2011 at 2:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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211 posts
The stacking feature, which is what they added, is working fine. It's the sort feature that still needs polish, so that it can combine stacks... But that feature felt rushed, and wasn't tweaked at all in the last patch, so I guess they can just toss that on the to-do list.

Also, the wards still need a lot of polishing... They're on their way though, I was actually kind of surprised they've made as much progress with them as they have, I thought it would take them longer to add a good search... Now if they'd just stop the crashes, and refine the search to show + items, it'd be almost like an AH but with more zoning and running around.
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#9 Feb 04 2011 at 2:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
This is a perfect example of how parts of the game have defianitely been upgraded, but still need more polish.


While I do agree in general that the game needs polish, I gotta disagree with you on the example here, Thayos. For SE to have automatically 'collapsed' our inventory stacks would've resulted in a lot of extra development. Not only that, it would be one-off development work, never to be used again.

For example, they'd have to iterate over every character's inventory, bazaar, and retainer inventory and bazaars. They'd have to then check whether or not the item is subject to extra stacking. They'd then have to figure out if there's an extra stack to consolidate. Etc. etc.

Not only that, but QA would be a nightmare. What happens if something goes wrong during execution? How do they ensure that your item count before and after was the same, for every item. Etc. Maintenance nightmare.

Instead, they made a very appropriate decision to use already-implemented in-game mechanics, and have users spend 30 seconds to 5 minutes to collapse their inventory, and not run the risk to experience any hiccup whatsoever. If SE were to 'polish' this behavior, they most likely would have spent extra weeks if not months tackling a problem which already has a workable, scalable solution, and diverting resources from other things.

It was a cost-benefit analysis where the cost far exceeded the benefit. The dev team clearly made the right choice here.
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#10 Feb 04 2011 at 2:54 PM Rating: Decent
wow. I just freed up almost 40 more spots. Thanks SE
#11 Feb 04 2011 at 3:00 PM Rating: Decent
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211 posts
volta1 wrote:
Thayos wrote:
This is a perfect example of how parts of the game have defianitely been upgraded, but still need more polish.


While I do agree in general that the game needs polish, I gotta disagree with you on the example here, Thayos. For SE to have automatically 'collapsed' our inventory stacks would've resulted in a lot of extra development. Not only that, it would be one-off development work, never to be used again.

For example, they'd have to iterate over every character's inventory, bazaar, and retainer inventory and bazaars. They'd have to then check whether or not the item is subject to extra stacking. They'd then have to figure out if there's an extra stack to consolidate. Etc. etc.

Not only that, but QA would be a nightmare. What happens if something goes wrong during execution? How do they ensure that your item count before and after was the same, for every item. Etc. Maintenance nightmare.

Instead, they made a very appropriate decision to use already-implemented in-game mechanics, and have users spend 30 seconds to 5 minutes to collapse their inventory, and not run the risk to experience any hiccup whatsoever. If SE were to 'polish' this behavior, they most likely would have spent extra weeks if not months tackling a problem which already has a workable, scalable solution, and diverting resources from other things.

It was a cost-benefit analysis where the cost far exceeded the benefit. The dev team clearly made the right choice here.

You make it sound a lot worse than it is. FFXI had a sort feature that acted exactly has how a 'polished' version of the one we have now would act.

And the mechanics are already in the game. They are used whenever you move an item from your bazaar or retainer into you inventory. All they'd have to do is make the sort feature trigger the stack merging mechanics already in place.

But I agree that going without it is not that big a deal at all, and so it probably has a very low priority atm, regardless if it's an overnight fix or not. We'll likely see it eventually though, and I doubt it will take them much effort to patch in once it's turn comes along on their to-do list.
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#12 Feb 04 2011 at 3:55 PM Rating: Good
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Tiger228 wrote:
volta1 wrote:
Thayos wrote:
This is a perfect example of how parts of the game have defianitely been upgraded, but still need more polish.


While I do agree in general that the game needs polish, I gotta disagree with you on the example here, Thayos. For SE to have automatically 'collapsed' our inventory stacks would've resulted in a lot of extra development. Not only that, it would be one-off development work, never to be used again.

For example, they'd have to iterate over every character's inventory, bazaar, and retainer inventory and bazaars. They'd have to then check whether or not the item is subject to extra stacking. They'd then have to figure out if there's an extra stack to consolidate. Etc. etc.

Not only that, but QA would be a nightmare. What happens if something goes wrong during execution? How do they ensure that your item count before and after was the same, for every item. Etc. Maintenance nightmare.

Instead, they made a very appropriate decision to use already-implemented in-game mechanics, and have users spend 30 seconds to 5 minutes to collapse their inventory, and not run the risk to experience any hiccup whatsoever. If SE were to 'polish' this behavior, they most likely would have spent extra weeks if not months tackling a problem which already has a workable, scalable solution, and diverting resources from other things.

It was a cost-benefit analysis where the cost far exceeded the benefit. The dev team clearly made the right choice here.

You make it sound a lot worse than it is. FFXI had a sort feature that acted exactly has how a 'polished' version of the one we have now would act.

And the mechanics are already in the game. They are used whenever you move an item from your bazaar or retainer into you inventory. All they'd have to do is make the sort feature trigger the stack merging mechanics already in place.

But I agree that going without it is not that big a deal at all, and so it probably has a very low priority atm, regardless if it's an overnight fix or not. We'll likely see it eventually though, and I doubt it will take them much effort to patch in once it's turn comes along on their to-do list.


Actually the auto-stacking is on their list, and they make mention to it when they implemented the sort feature.

As for 11, it took them 4 years (in the US) to finish polishing that. I remember when they fixed it as my chocobo digging was DRIVING ME NUTS since the items didn't stack correctly, and I had to bring up my inventory all the time and manually trigger the auto-sort. Again, while from a human stand-point something like that seems easy, it's a logistical nightmare programming. People have written their PHD thesis on sorting algorithms in computational systems. It is not something to take lightly.
#13 Feb 04 2011 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
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211 posts
rfolkker wrote:
While from a human stand-point something like that seems easy, it's a logistical nightmare programming. People have written their PHD thesis on sorting algorithms in computational systems. It is not something to take lightly.

Are these sorting algorithms you're talking about for inventories in a game that already has a foundation in place to accommodate auto-sorting? Or are they for various non in-game data... Because there's a big difference there.

A similar example to that, but even more of a programming nightmare, is the ongoing effort to make a visual input sensor type thingy for computers. The prototypes they have do things from identifying objects on a table to driving cars... Well, they attempt to at least. My point is, for a computer to do that is incredibly tough, where as we do it with ease, but for a computer to target mobs in FFXIV is not nearly as hard because it doesn't have to do it the same way, it just pans to pre-designated targets without needing to actual watch the visual display.

Same thing for the inventory, it's not like it has to use some kind of advanced science every time it sorts and distinguish all the files, it just has to trigger an already in place sorting mechanic which sorts the already labeled items to their designated spot. The actual labeling was probably done by humans anyway. All they really have to do is attach the command to do so to the current sort feature, and have it re-trigger each time an item is added to the inventory, and the sort feature already acts on those newly added items anyway, so it really doesn't seem that difficult to tack on...

But then again, I'm not a programmer, so I might be wrong... Would sure surprise me though, it really doesn't seem like it'd be that tough. At any rate, I guess this is getting off topic and irrelevant, so meh lol. I'll just let SE take care of that at their leisure. xD
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#14 Feb 04 2011 at 7:03 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
While I do agree in general that the game needs polish, I gotta disagree with you on the example here, Thayos. For SE to have automatically 'collapsed' our inventory stacks would've resulted in a lot of extra development.


Good points! I'm not meaning to come down hard on SE over this... just saying that there's still a lot of work that needs to be done, even though the game seems to improve dramatically with every patch/update.
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#15 Feb 04 2011 at 7:26 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
and I had to bring up my inventory all the time and manually trigger the auto-sort. Again, while from a human stand-point something like that seems easy, it's a logistical nightmare programming.

How is it a logistical nightmare to program the game to automatically press the auto-sort button (figuratively) every time you dig something up? It doesn't take a complex new algorithm to automatically trigger a feature that a player can trigger manually.

This is another example of something that SE learned in FFXI and somehow magically forgot about for FFXIV. Just because it's a different game doesn't mean they should ignore everything they learned from years of running another MMO.
#16 Feb 05 2011 at 10:44 AM Rating: Decent
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447 posts
Thayos wrote:
Quote:
While I do agree in general that the game needs polish, I gotta disagree with you on the example here, Thayos. For SE to have automatically 'collapsed' our inventory stacks would've resulted in a lot of extra development.


Good points! I'm not meaning to come down hard on SE over this... just saying that there's still a lot of work that needs to be done, even though the game seems to improve dramatically with every patch/update.


Thanks, and your points remain valid on the game needing more polish. It's too bad that people who disagreed decided to rate down, though.
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