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Partying (FFXI style)Follow

#52 Feb 07 2011 at 9:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Louiscool wrote:
Job diversity IS "clear cut roles".

It's not. This is what I've been trying to say. Diversity and Specialty roles are actually two different things. The former is just working in different ways to get a similar goal. The latter is making all jobs different for the sake of being different. However in all party situations you cannot deny there will always be the three roles, "Tank", "DD", and "Healer", and these are all roles that must be filled to have a successful party.

It's cool you want jobs to have defining traits, but realize in order to avoid the issue from XI, "clear cut roles" needs to be handled with care. Otherwise you end up with what happened to the Ninja job.
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#53 Feb 07 2011 at 12:04 PM Rating: Good
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CarthRDM wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Job diversity IS "clear cut roles".

It's not. This is what I've been trying to say. Diversity and Specialty roles are actually two different things. The former is just working in different ways to get a similar goal. The latter is making all jobs different for the sake of being different. However in all party situations you cannot deny there will always be the three roles, "Tank", "DD", and "Healer", and these are all roles that must be filled to have a successful party.

It's cool you want jobs to have defining traits, but realize in order to avoid the issue from XI, "clear cut roles" needs to be handled with care. /[quote]

[quote]Otherwise you end up with what happened to the Ninja job.


You mean have SE design the job as a poor DD while the players force it into a Tank role?

We'll have to disagree I guess. I played 2 of the shunned jobs from FFXI and loved them. Still, I want that "we need a rdm for this" or "Does anyone have bard or cor leveled? We could use that here"

You can tell me to go back to ffxi I guess, or we can just agree to disagree.
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#54 Feb 08 2011 at 2:18 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I want diversity and clear cut roles.


Like, say, Summoners main healing? Ninjas tanking? Beastmasters soloing? Warrior's DDing exclusively? Remember that definition and clear cut roles come from the way players respond to the content of the game. Warrior was the original tanking class, but early on people discovered that Ninja was not just better, it was astronomically better. Summoners always had a great many options in how they were played, because of the variety of bloodpacts they had available. But the need for healers early on in the game (when everyone wanted to tank or DD) forced them into the position of white-mage.

Anyway, my point is that right now, this game doesn't have any clearly defined roles because none are needed. You need someone to cure and someone to do damage, and that's about it. They could give us back the strict order and precision of FFXI's job system, but you would just end up with a bunch of random DD jobs and mage jobs pummeling things until they die.

Nothing is going to change until we get some content that requires specialization of roles. And when we do get that content, lo-and behold, people already have a system in place that allows them to specialize. Lancer, Pugilist and Thaumaturge to debuff the monster, Conjurer to nuke or heal, Gladiator/Maurader to tank (possibly Pugilist in some situations), nearly any job to deal damage in some capacity (Archer/Maurader for spike damage, Pugilist/Lancer for DoT). Because abilities can be changed on the fly, you can readjust your strategies on the fly, switching roles within a party to suit the situation. Maybe some fights would be better with more damage output. Others might require a heavily debuffed mob. Yet others might require all of the defensive power you can muster.

The system as it is offers enough options that you can fill the roles that people keep asking for with a little forethought. But without any reason to fill those roles, people just default to the path of least resistance, i.e. mashing 1 and curing.

Quote:
Still, I want that "we need a rdm for this" or "Does anyone have bard or cor leveled? We could use that here"


Yeah, go back to FFXI. We don't need any of that **** here.

Edited, Feb 8th 2011 2:24pm by GailC
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Ealdwulf wrote:
So one of the big downsides of playing PUP, and why almost everyone hates them, is that they all display the wounds of Christ?
Sephrick wrote:
I'd imagine it as descretely reaching around said person, not screaming kamehameha as I use the pld as a trampoline.
dmhlucky wrote:
the curse of good DD's is they tend to have less Defense, meaning they get high for more.
Master ketrel wrote:
Its just an emote you sick son of a *****
#55 Feb 08 2011 at 4:14 PM Rating: Good
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Anyone with Rank 50 job care to chime in on this one?
#56 Feb 09 2011 at 12:31 AM Rating: Decent
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It is still possible to have the traditional roles while still allowing for party flexibility. With the job system of FFXIV, abilities are very versatile, and can be equipped by any job with a penalty to their effectiveness. In FFXI the Job/subjob system restricted access to abilities, and the need to have a subjob that supported your main one hindered you further, but this is not so with FFXIV.

Niche/unique roles are essential to diverse gameplay, otherwise it turns stale.
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#57 Feb 09 2011 at 2:17 AM Rating: Decent
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RufuSwho wrote:
Anyone with Rank 50 job care to chime in on this one?


For brevity sake: I don't like the current party system at all. I like having a party role which doesn't really exist in the game. I'd personally prefer a hybrid 11 style where it was a tad bit more flexible (then 11) and soloing was an option.

I was a 49 pug with 30k to go before the SP turned candy mode. I've played since beta so I worked through the "sometimes getting zero" phase, worked through the "Final Fantasy Coblyn" phase (which is still in effect since its still technically the best mob to kill in the game) and now have started on this new phase. That said my lnc is now at 25 and the game is still not all that different. Zerg on the weakest-tough mob you can find. No need of a tank really; no need of cohesive party play; no need of thought in general and there is still a sense of accomplishment missing.

As I mentioned before in another post this is a cookie patch (or so I hope). At the end of Yoshi's second letter he mentions another poll coming out aimed at the battle system. It would probably be best to really sit down and think about what you want to see rather then these good post turning into e-peen contest about nothing relevant whatsoever. Change is unquestionably coming again, so best to give a thoughtful vote rather then a knee-jerk reaction like a lot of these post seem to be.


Edited, Feb 9th 2011 3:18am by Vackashken
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