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#52 Feb 10 2011 at 1:39 AM Rating: Good
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I keep hearing people say it doesn't affect others. I've said this before, but it's falling on deaf ears: These r50s are taking mobs that should be going to people in the 30s and 40s.

Explain to me how that doesn't affect anyone else - ****, the way the game is, I can't explain how you could do any more to affect someone else (directly). Taking their SP mobs is about it.
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#53 Feb 10 2011 at 3:26 PM Rating: Good
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3,178 posts
Coyohma wrote:
I keep hearing people say it doesn't affect others. I've said this before, but it's falling on deaf ears: These r50s are taking mobs that should be going to people in the 30s and 40s.

Explain to me how that doesn't affect anyone else - ****, the way the game is, I can't explain how you could do any more to affect someone else (directly). Taking their SP mobs is about it.


I have yet to run into a situation where there are not enough mobs to go around. Maybe this is a problem at higher ranks?

Ah, yes. You do say 30's and 40's. Around what Camps/Locations are you seeing this as a problem?
#54 Feb 10 2011 at 4:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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68 posts
There are several problems with this. Obviously, the players who actually put time and effort into playing the game fairly will and should feel a little disgruntled towards those that are too lazy to actually play. That being said, there is also the issue that power-leveling parties can easily out-pull a group of appropriate level characters. For example, an rank 50 archer can pull several mobs at a distance and then use arrow helix and clear an area very quickly, (even though killing one by one is better. Yellow Name = no SP!). The point is that a group of players who want to legitimately level in the area could not possibly compete with the killing rate of a power-leveling party. Which leads us to the next issue:

If SE ever wanted to address this problem, they have to be very careful about balance. Mainly that even though the lazy players, (that will have no actual skills at playing the game), are getting SP, it's the rank 50 that is doing all the work. There is no rule that says a rank 50 can't go back to a lower level area and kill mobs. I did this quite a bit in FFXI to get drops, such as beast blood, or silks, or what have you. I think the reason it was more acceptable is because no one was trying to get experience from these mobs, so the only people who could complain about it were other competitors.

The other problem is that if SE acted too hastily, (they would never do that, right?), then it could have serious repercussions on larger parties. I'm sure everyone has been in a behest or some other large group, and realized that they couldn't even get an attack off before the mob died. Even though the intent to participate was there, the fact remains that the player was a non-combatant. I'm also convinced that, (if addressed too seriously/quickly), it could serve a problem for healers. I play THM mostly, (dragging my heals to level CON. Don't know why...), and I static with a Gladiator. Occasionally we have a LS-mate who is an archer play with us. When all three of us are together, I mostly just heal. I could throw out a bio or poison, but what's the point when the mob dies so fast? I played WHM for a while in XI, so healing isn't a problem for me. But I think if SE tried to return to the "you must hit the mob first to get SP" mentality, it could be a major problem for those who are present but not directly in the conflict.

Aside from this, I have to pose a question. Is Power-leveling morally wrong?

Now before you get your knickers in a bunch, let me explain why I'm asking this. I feel that XIV is far too easy in 80% of its content, and that power leveling isn't necessary. But in FFXI, there were quests and missions that were very difficult for players at the level in which they got them. I can't count the times I got help from my LS to do things that a party at my level would have issues doing. Getting the keys for Kazham, getting an airship pass, or even my Artifact gear. I was always very thankful when a level 75 would help me out. But in FFXIV, quests can easily be solo'd. Grinding for experience is relatively easy, and even then the leves and hourly behests are normally enough to keep me from needing to grind.

But even if we go back to Valkrum Dunes, I think anyone would be hard pressed to find a player that didn't want to hurry up and get to level 20. I've even been out there to help my LS level faster. I can't help but think that power-leveling, (or using higher level jobs to complete content designed for lower levels), isn't really "wrong" in FFXI. But in FFXIV, everything is so easy that I find it lazy. Maybe it's because in XI, the lower players still had to work? But I just feel that the only people who would be dumb enough to look for power leveling in XIV are going to be RMT of some sort. Any player worth their salt wouldn't even bother with power leveling.

Conclusion-confusion: How would SE be able to stop party members from simply leaching SP without breaking the larger party system? (I know the obvious answer would be level difference, but to **** if I know what they think about that). And how does one deal with the fact that this really isn't an exploit? They aren't cheating or hacking. They're just using the rules that SE gave them, and trying to find the most elaborate way of getting out of actually playing the game. (Which begs the question, why play the game if you don't want to play the game?) Yes, they aren't playing the game the way it was intended to be played. But if it's legal, then it's legal. ***** lawyers). Even then, moral issues aside, it isn't SE's job to dictate what can and cannot be pulled based on levels. I think when it boils down to it, it is still simply competition for the limited resources in the area. If it were a solo BST in XI or a power-leveling group in XIV, it still just another player getting the worm first.

Do I think it's right? No. Obviously not. But I am not sure that there is anything that can really be done about this.
#55 Feb 10 2011 at 5:39 PM Rating: Good
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800 posts
Heartflame wrote:
Aside from this, I have to pose a question. Is Power-leveling morally wrong?


This question completely depends on your own personal morality. Morality will differ from one person to the next, and so what might be morally wrong to one person may be morally acceptable to another. You will never get a consensus on this because of that.

In my eyes, power-leveling like this goes against the spirit of the game. We are not intended to level up by going afk while a rank 50 kills hundreds and hundreds of mobs. This is no longer an accidental discovery. If you're leveling up this way, you're doing so intentionally. You are, in effect, cheating the system. People who are doing it should be aware that SE has been known to watch exploiters for a long period of time before dropping the ban-hammer.

So is it morally wrong? That each and every person's right to decide. Is it against the spirit of the game? Yes. I imagine if SE decides it's a big enough problem they'll give people the chance to apologize much like the Conjurer power-leveling a few months ago. I doubt they will though because really, who cares if you get to 24 overnight? I could grind any combat class to 24 in a day just doing leves. It's really not that much of an advantage.
#56 Feb 10 2011 at 8:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Heartflame wrote:
Aside from this, I have to pose a question. Is Power-leveling morally wrong?

I feel Abyssea has set the precedent as far as the official stance on this goes. A level 30 can go in and get carried all the way up by high level characters without actually contributing anything to the battle.

Rank difference aside, someone could be afk in a party and still be getting SP, so I guess it's just the quantity at question here.

I'd want to see sp/hour testing, comparing with the maximum known sp gains per hour of this method and of the other options available (like forming a party of close rank players, or leve linking) before I could comment on whether it needs adjusting at present. But I don't see that it needs to be completely prevented like it was right up to the release of Abyssea in XI.

And sup Zam, long time lurker, first time poster.
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