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On the subject of what quests should be.Follow

#1 Feb 07 2011 at 2:04 PM Rating: Good
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I've been ignoring people's generalization of xp quests in other mmos for a while, but I think I'm going to break my silence on this.

I don't know what game you're playing, but it seems most of the comparisons used come from world of warcraft. I'll just stick to that since it seems to be the standard nowadays. Not all quests are "kill 6 boars" type of quests. If you really think that, then you didn't get far enough into the game to have an opinion on it. There were myriads of quests involving assassination, thievery, infiltration, defensive battles, vehicles and artillery, and many many other very @#%^ing interesting situations. .

A quest where you have to man a catapult to fend off incoming hostile invasions. A quest where you're in the back of a plane having to use machine guns to shoot down pursuing enemy flying machines. Assassination of the scarlet crusade generals, leaders, high priest, etc. An entire story built up around this that follows you for the entire game. I could list them all day, that's just the tip of the ice berg.

If you don't think that these type of quests are immersive, well written, and fun; I don't know what to tell you. Sometimes I think the people on these forums just spout bullsh*t about things they're biased against with absolutely nothing to back it up with.

I don't care if the quests give SP and Items, or only one of the two. They must however be somewhat competitive with quests in other games. In FFXI quests other than the missions, were for the most part (at least 75%) dry, detached, and gave no incentive for players to do them. Turning in an entire inventory of moss to some sheep herder in selbina comes to mind. It would be a real bummer if that's what SE has planned for FFXIV.

Please voice your opinion on this, but please try not to be biased or angry toward other games and stay on the topic of quests.



Edited, Feb 7th 2011 3:09pm by Transmigration
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#2 Feb 07 2011 at 2:17 PM Rating: Good
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I completely agree with your post. People too often claim that quests (mainly from WoW) are just random "Collect this" or "Kill that" quests. They go deeper, and there is always an intriguing story behind them if you take the time to read through the quest when it's given to you.

I would like to see quests implemented into FFXIV that are almost like side-stories. Quests that chain and require you to do a bunch of different things, and leads into one ultimate goal. I do not think that gaining xp/sp is a bad thing, but i think doing quests (along with the xp/sp from the monsters killed during the quest) should net you slightly less than if you went and grinded for the same period of time. I also think though, that this slight lack of sp/xp gain would be compensated through gaining really cool/unique items and gil (once it becomes important).

This way, for people who only care about sp/hour, you can go grind and probably come out ahead, but for the people who want to have fun and level up as they do it, you can do quests, get your sp, and then receive some rewards for your efforts.

Edit: I would also like to see them implemented in the same way as the main scenario quests, with cutscenes and the occasional voice acting. Although i spoke for it in my initial statement, i will say that reading quests out of a log in order to understand whats going on isn't very fun. That's one of my main pet peeves with levequests, it's just a log entry that tells you to do something with very little substance behind it.

Edited, Feb 7th 2011 3:20pm by Domino7337
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#3 Feb 07 2011 at 2:28 PM Rating: Good
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Domino7337 wrote:
I completely agree with your post. People too often claim that quests (mainly from WoW) are just random "Collect this" or "Kill that" quests. They go deeper, and there is always an intriguing story behind them if you take the time to read through the quest when it's given to you.

I would like to see quests implemented into FFXIV that are almost like side-stories. Quests that chain and require you to do a bunch of different things, and leads into one ultimate goal. I do not think that gaining xp/sp is a bad thing, but i think doing quests (along with the xp/sp from the monsters killed during the quest) should net you slightly less than if you went and grinded for the same period of time. I also think though, that this slight lack of sp/xp gain would be compensated through gaining really cool/unique items and gil (once it becomes important).

This way, for people who only care about sp/hour, you can go grind and probably come out ahead, but for the people who want to have fun and level up as they do it, you can do quests, get your sp, and then receive some rewards for your efforts.

Edit: I would also like to see them implemented in the same way as the main scenario quests, with cutscenes and the occasional voice acting. Although i spoke for it in my initial statement, i will say that reading quests out of a log in order to understand whats going on isn't very fun. That's one of my main pet peeves with levequests, it's just a log entry that tells you to do something with very little substance behind it.

Edited, Feb 7th 2011 3:20pm by Domino7337


2 very interesting points here IMO:

1) quests = side-story. There is more than ranking up and piling gils in MMOs.

2) quests are worth doing, in terms of SP, so it's a viable and fun alternative to grinding for casual players

And please, make them challenging (not insanely tough, just so you have to think before throwing yourself carelessly into a quest)
#4 Feb 07 2011 at 2:28 PM Rating: Good
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Agreed. While WOW has its fair share of crappy, boring, and literal **** quests, there are a TON of amazing quests and quest chains that expand its story and your character's.

The people who say that WOW's quests are boring and don't offer any story are no different than those that say FFXI was a boring grinding MMO.
#5 Feb 07 2011 at 2:29 PM Rating: Good
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SE isn't working solely on content for this game for obvious reasons, unlike Blizzard. SE won't be able to put the same effort into their quests.

For the time being thats fine, but once they start focusing on content exclusively they need to pick up the pace.
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#6 Feb 07 2011 at 2:30 PM Rating: Decent
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People will always agree and disagree on this sort of topic, personnaly I hate it when people think all mmos should be WoW clones, i admit i havent played WoW but it has never apealed to me, so i wouldnt like ffxiv to take that aproach. the reason that quests in ffxi were how they were was because it is as close to what quests are like in most final fantasy games which is what personnaly I would prefer ffxiv to be like, not a WoW clone but a final fantasy game.

However saying that I wouldnt mind some of what was mentioned but imo there more for missions because they would have to have a story attached to them, take for example RotZ, you get asked to kill Eld'narche (sp?) because he is going to open the gates of paradise which would bring the distruction on Vana'diel that has a storyline attached and therefore a reason to kill someone.

PS spoilered that incase people havent completed RotZ yet.

Most ff games have you kill someone, usually because they want to distroy the world, but there is a story behind it.

With how FF games are made, if the things you talked about were quests they would have to be in a huge questline effectivly making a mini storyline, other wise it would be: <NPC> "please <player> go and assasinate this guy" <player> "why should i?" <NPC> "because I asked you and you want this super uber weapon I have" <player> "oh ok then" which I have never seen in a final fantasy game without a storyline around it.

tl;dr what the op said could work, but it would have to be in a storyline or questline to work like final fantasy games always have, I know some people will say but this is a mmo not a console game, but if they start copying WoW it will become a complete WoW clone in no time, unless they copy things from other mmos, then it will just be a mmo, not a final fantasy game.
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#7 Feb 07 2011 at 2:32 PM Rating: Excellent
The best quests in XI were the 25% or so (to use the OP's estimation) that actually had a story to them. I would imagine that the vast majority of people agree that quests are more fun when they are actually engaging like that. It's a little bit annoying to have a bunch of the "kill X of Y" over and over again, but (time to play devil's advocate) you also have to remember that everything has to be within the confines of the world in which the game exists. There have to be some repeatable quests in there, especially for lower level players, as this is often the easiest way for them to get experience and money. And perhaps I'm just not creative enough to come up with other examples, but this seems like one of the few ways to make that available. I suppose you could do something like "these beasts are attacking the town again, help us stave them off", but it would be a lot more work to put that in, as you'd have to do an instance or something of that nature to make it work and be different from what is already in the game. Don't get me wrong, because I agree with the point you're making, I'm just trying to point out the other side to the argument too. The important thing is to strike a better balance between the types of quests.
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#8 Feb 07 2011 at 2:42 PM Rating: Good
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scrish wrote:
People will always agree and disagree on this sort of topic, personnaly I hate it when people think all mmos should be WoW clones, i admit i havent played WoW but it has never apealed to me, so i wouldnt like ffxiv to take that aproach. the reason that quests in ffxi were how they were was because it is as close to what quests are like in most final fantasy games which is what personnaly I would prefer ffxiv to be like, not a WoW clone but a final fantasy game.

However saying that I wouldnt mind some of what was mentioned but imo there more for missions because they would have to have a story attached to them, take for example RotZ, you get asked to kill Eld'narche (sp?) because he is going to open the gates of paradise which would bring the distruction on Vana'diel that has a storyline attached and therefore a reason to kill someone.

PS spoilered that incase people havent completed RotZ yet.

Most ff games have you kill someone, usually because they want to distroy the world, but there is a story behind it.

With how FF games are made, if the things you talked about were quests they would have to be in a huge questline effectivly making a mini storyline, other wise it would be: <NPC> "please <player> go and assasinate this guy" <player> "why should i?" <NPC> "because I asked you and you want this super uber weapon I have" <player> "oh ok then" which I have never seen in a final fantasy game without a storyline around it.

tl;dr what the op said could work, but it would have to be in a storyline or questline to work like final fantasy games always have, I know some people will say but this is a mmo not a console game, but if they start copying WoW it will become a complete WoW clone in no time, unless they copy things from other mmos, then it will just be a mmo, not a final fantasy game.


Sorry bro, but a couple of your statements irked me.

First of all "it will become a complete WoW clone in no time". I can understand and respect that you have never played WoW because it didn't appeal to you, but since you obviously have no experience with it (you stated so yourself), I'm sorry to say that you have no basis for this argument. Adding SP rewards and creating quests that are actually mildly enthralling will not turn FFXIV into WoW, trust me.

"With how FF games are made, if the things you talked about were quests they would have to be in a huge questline effectivly making a mini storyline, other wise it would be..." Yes, that's exactly what i said, make them into their own separate stories (that ultimately have relevance to the entire world). Sure this might take a little effort, but c'mon SE, this is a flagship title, you can throw some effort into your game to make it worth playing. That is not to say all quests must be like this, but there needs to be a fair majority, at least 50% i would say.

And, "then it will just be a mmo, not a final fantasy game." This is a final fantasy MMO. It should contain aspects of its main series, but it must also be more than a final fantasy game with an online market system and the ability to grind with friends. This is a tricky genre, and SE must pull from several different places to make it work. MMO's are inherently set up differently than most RPG's, and there are certain aspects that can't be copied verbatim into a game such as FFXIV.
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#9 Feb 07 2011 at 2:46 PM Rating: Good
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Transmigration wrote:

I don't know what game you're playing


This type of quest:

Quote:
"kill 6 boars" type of quests


Is present in almost every generic MMORPG under the sun. That's where the generalization comes from.

Edited, Feb 7th 2011 12:46pm by Theonehio
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#10 Feb 07 2011 at 3:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Domino7337 wrote:
scrish wrote:
People will always agree and disagree on this sort of topic, personnaly I hate it when people think all mmos should be WoW clones, i admit i havent played WoW but it has never apealed to me, so i wouldnt like ffxiv to take that aproach. the reason that quests in ffxi were how they were was because it is as close to what quests are like in most final fantasy games which is what personnaly I would prefer ffxiv to be like, not a WoW clone but a final fantasy game.

However saying that I wouldnt mind some of what was mentioned but imo there more for missions because they would have to have a story attached to them, take for example RotZ, you get asked to kill Eld'narche (sp?) because he is going to open the gates of paradise which would bring the distruction on Vana'diel that has a storyline attached and therefore a reason to kill someone.

PS spoilered that incase people havent completed RotZ yet.

Most ff games have you kill someone, usually because they want to distroy the world, but there is a story behind it.

With how FF games are made, if the things you talked about were quests they would have to be in a huge questline effectivly making a mini storyline, other wise it would be: <NPC> "please <player> go and assasinate this guy" <player> "why should i?" <NPC> "because I asked you and you want this super uber weapon I have" <player> "oh ok then" which I have never seen in a final fantasy game without a storyline around it.

tl;dr what the op said could work, but it would have to be in a storyline or questline to work like final fantasy games always have, I know some people will say but this is a mmo not a console game, but if they start copying WoW it will become a complete WoW clone in no time, unless they copy things from other mmos, then it will just be a mmo, not a final fantasy game.


Sorry bro, but a couple of your statements irked me.

First of all "it will become a complete WoW clone in no time". I can understand and respect that you have never played WoW because it didn't appeal to you, but since you obviously have no experience with it (you stated so yourself), I'm sorry to say that you have no basis for this argument. Adding SP rewards and creating quests that are actually mildly enthralling will not turn FFXIV into WoW, trust me.

"With how FF games are made, if the things you talked about were quests they would have to be in a huge questline effectivly making a mini storyline, other wise it would be..." Yes, that's exactly what i said, make them into their own separate stories (that ultimately have relevance to the entire world). Sure this might take a little effort, but c'mon SE, this is a flagship title, you can throw some effort into your game to make it worth playing. That is not to say all quests must be like this, but there needs to be a fair majority, at least 50% i would say.

And, "then it will just be a mmo, not a final fantasy game." This is a final fantasy MMO. It should contain aspects of its main series, but it must also be more than a final fantasy game with an online market system and the ability to grind with friends. This is a tricky genre, and SE must pull from several different places to make it work. MMO's are inherently set up differently than most RPG's, and there are certain aspects that can't be copied verbatim into a game such as FFXIV.


What you said was good, but I have noticed a lot of people on forums saying that the game should me more like WoW, with how much it looks like SE is listening to the player base, it does worry me that if too many people say this, SE will make it look more like WoW, and ultimately becoming a WoW clone, and I would not play, however what you said about me having no basis for comparison is completly valid, who knows if it did come to that with ffxiv I may like it and it could be beneficial to the game. Ultimatly though personnaly I would prefer this to be more of a final fantasy game, also with the critical mmo elements.

I do agree that this sort of thing would be beneficial to the game in longer questlines, what I was trying to say was that I wouldnt like this sort of quest in either single quests or short questlines because it wouldnt be a final fantasy game if they added this in short questlines that wont immerse you in the story.

Your comments are completly valid though, and although it may not have looked like it in my post i do agree with what you are saying.

This sort of thing may become more viable when more of the world is open, however right now there is a huge limit to what would be possible because of the limit of the world, it would just spark more complaints that they are copy and pasteng quests now, however when the world is open more they could come up with more origanal quests.

Edited, Feb 7th 2011 4:28pm by scrish
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#11 Feb 07 2011 at 3:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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I want good quests.

I want them to be engaging with their primary effect to be immersion.

Quests should take you new and interesting places involved within the game's lore. You should fight interesting monsters along the way, then there should be a challenging battle at the end, and then the trek home to turn it in. The reward should be pretty big. Or it can be a multi-tired fetch quests but is really involving. Or it can be both, or a million other things.

WoW had a few quests like this; that were innovative and involving. Though it diluted the pool with too many of the same "Kill 10 Rats."

FFXI's quests were good because they weren't diluted. The downside was that there was no real point to do them. The other downside was that you HAD to do some quests in order to proceed.

SO I guess the point is, WoW disguises the grind at the cost of substantial questing, while FFXI had substantial content but a helluva grind.

FFXIV can I think bridge this gap, by including more of the quests they're good at; storied quests. Longer, multi-tiered quests for gear and or armor that would (if needed) force people to group up and become communal again.

For example. Level 15. You get asked by a PUG(or whatever) in training to deliver a package to some shady character. You get caught by the guards and are placed in jail. You break out only to find that the package you were supposed to deliver was stolen and taken to the Copperbell mines. Throughout the way you see another shady character that may be an imperial spy...you chase him down an alley, but find that he disappeared, but left something behind...It's the package. You deliver the package then retrieve your reward (A pair of Original Cesti or whatever)

Now, that took me all of 5min to come up with that idea-wise.

BUT is that unreasonable to expect that sort of immersion say, every 2 levels or so? Maybe?

How do you incorporate those sorts of quests with an MMO?

Who knows. I have ideas, but no one's paying me for them, that's all up to Yoshi-P. :)
#12 Feb 07 2011 at 3:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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I am all for quests but I am 100% against them directly rewarding SP. I think SP gain should come from the actual battles. I don't care if as part of the quest you have to kill a dragon and the dragon gives 10K SP - that's fine. But it just kills the immersion factor for me to get SP from talking to an NPC.

That said I am okay with having a few SP items like boost rings and boost scrolls (Guardian's Aspect scroll that can be used outside of leve? That would be cool) as rewards. I just DO NOT want to get 2000 SP just for talking to Bango Zango.
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#13 Feb 07 2011 at 3:57 PM Rating: Default
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Kierk wrote:
For example. Level 15. You get asked by a PUG(or whatever) in training to deliver a package to some shady character. You get caught by the guards and are placed in jail. You break out only to find that the package you were supposed to deliver was stolen and taken to the Copperbell mines. Throughout the way you see another shady character that may be an imperial spy...you chase him down an alley, but find that he disappeared, but left something behind...It's the package. You deliver the package then retrieve your reward (A pair of Original Cesti or whatever)

Now, that took me all of 5min to come up with that idea-wise.

BUT is that unreasonable to expect that sort of immersion say, every 2 levels or so? Maybe?

How do you incorporate those sorts of quests with an MMO?

Who knows. I have ideas, but no one's paying me for them, that's all up to Yoshi-P. :)


That is a good idea for a short questline, however, as far as i beleave we dont currently have any zones with a jail in which goes back to my argument that for substansial questlines we need more of the world opening.

Also with things like jail breaks and chasing someone round a corner, only to find they disapear is a bit of a cliché.

If you flesh it out to a longer storyline, and have to fight the guards then deliver the package, getting randomly interupted by guards until you deliver it, could work, it could then lead onto more quests that add to that paticular story, inorder to immerse you in it more.
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#14 Feb 07 2011 at 4:10 PM Rating: Good
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I agree. I nevet played WoW, but i did play TES III and TESIV, I know these are not online games, however, these two games did a great job offering side quests so you could get to know more abouy the local areas and the lore of the region. It was great! I hope to see something like that. Where it added more depth to the game. In the TES series, I especially loved learning about the Gods and doing quests for them. I also loved uncovering secret plots of murders and necrmancy as well! I loved how each guild had it's own main story too! I was great! I think SE really needs to do things like this in 14, I think if they really want to bring in players and bring back the FF name we all came to know and love growing up.
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#15 Feb 07 2011 at 4:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
I am all for quests but I am 100% against them directly rewarding SP. I think SP gain should come from the actual battles.


How would a Weaver or Botanist do that?

I am totally for a small sp reward from quests. I am not talking 2000 SP, more like 300. I did like your idea about sp scrolls and rings.

I played FFXI since early '05, I played WoW for 2 years in addition. Too many ppl from FF11 think that leveling needs to be a long drawn out mind numbing task because that is what is was like in FFXI. If SE wants this game to be competitive they have to evolve how they handle progression. There are too many MMOs out there now for SE to limit SP gain and character progress to just leves, grinding, and for war & magic behest. Also a lot of people only see character progression through the eyes of W&M, those classes have it WAY more easy to level then H & L.
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#16 Feb 07 2011 at 4:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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scrish wrote:

Also with things like jail breaks and chasing someone round a corner, only to find they disapear is a bit of a cliché.




I forgot to mention, the jail wasn't really a jail but purgatory. And the jailer who brings mashed opo-opo to you on Thursdays isn't the jailer, he's your father.


#17 Feb 07 2011 at 4:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Kierk wrote:
scrish wrote:

Also with things like jail breaks and chasing someone round a corner, only to find they disapear is a bit of a cliché.




I forgot to mention, the jail wasn't really a jail but purgatory. And the jailer who brings mashed opo-opo to you on Thursdays isn't the jailer, he's your father.




lmao, being banished to eorzia's version of purgatory would be awesome for a quest, it could be the thm guild that teleports you there.

Also i dont want a mashed opo-opo, i want a nice drake steak :(
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#18 Feb 07 2011 at 5:25 PM Rating: Decent
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AnnabelleCloud wrote:
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
I am all for quests but I am 100% against them directly rewarding SP. I think SP gain should come from the actual battles.


How would a Weaver or Botanist do that?

I am totally for a small sp reward from quests. I am not talking 2000 SP, more like 300. I did like your idea about sp scrolls and rings.

I played FFXI since early '05, I played WoW for 2 years in addition. Too many ppl from FF11 think that leveling needs to be a long drawn out mind numbing task because that is what is was like in FFXI. If SE wants this game to be competitive they have to evolve how they handle progression. There are too many MMOs out there now for SE to limit SP gain and character progress to just leves, grinding, and for war & magic behest. Also a lot of people only see character progression through the eyes of W&M, those classes have it WAY more easy to level then H & L.


I would have to agree. Granted I havn't played any other MMO besides XI and XIV. However, I do hear of things my friends mention, cause they play other MMOS...and SE, being a company who wants to make money, does need to be competitive. They do have a brand to look out for and money to make...

And I would happen to agree that the quests they do implement do need to give some sort of SP reward, because like you said, H & L have it way harder than W & M. They made DOL and DOH leveling equals in a sense to DOW and DOM, so they do need to have a balance so those crafts can have just as many options as DOW and DOM have to progress and develope, instead of it constantly just being leves and gettings mats to level. Even though there aren't a whole lot of people would there who like just crafts...however they exist, and they have to have a way in order to level to get through the story lines of the main games, expansions, and sides quests and other content.
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#19 Feb 07 2011 at 5:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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AnnabelleCloud wrote:
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
I am all for quests but I am 100% against them directly rewarding SP. I think SP gain should come from the actual battles.


How would a Weaver or Botanist do that?



Ok. We gotta get this outta the way right now. Weavers and botanists are not going to be able to do all the same quests that Lancers and Thaumaturges can do. And Lancers and Thaumaturges will not be able to do the same quests that botanists and weavers can do.

I think that crafting and gathering classes should have their own quests going on but they shouldn't be able to make it so no quests ever have battles in them. I don't think making parley happen for every quest is a good idea. You will just have to let go of the idea that every job is going to be able to complete every quest.

Weavers could get SP in the quest from crafting the item asked for by the NPC (currently DoH quests don't give SP I think - which is a problem) etc. and from scroll rewards (as a possibility).

Botanists from chopping down the tree or the door or doing whatever that is part of the quest.

I think people who only want to level crafting and gathering need to recognize they are a tiny minority, however, and they can't ask for the whole game to be centered around them. People are going to have to realize that SE is probably not going to spend as much time on quests for gathering/crafting as for melee/magic.
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#20 Feb 07 2011 at 5:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
AnnabelleCloud wrote:
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
I am all for quests but I am 100% against them directly rewarding SP. I think SP gain should come from the actual battles.


How would a Weaver or Botanist do that?



Ok. We gotta get this outta the way right now. Weavers and botanists are not going to be able to do all the same quests that Lancers and Thaumaturges can do. And Lancers and Thaumaturges will not be able to do the same quests that botanists and weavers can do.

I think that crafting and gathering classes should have their own quests going on but they shouldn't be able to make it so no quests ever have battles in them. I don't think making parley happen for every quest is a good idea. You will just have to let go of the idea that every job is going to be able to complete every quest.

Weavers could get SP in the quest from crafting the item asked for by the NPC (currently DoH quests don't give SP I think - which is a problem) etc. and from scroll rewards (as a possibility).

Botanists from chopping down the tree or the door or doing whatever that is part of the quest.

I think people who only want to level crafting and gathering need to recognize they are a tiny minority, however, and they can't ask for the whole game to be centered around them. People are going to have to realize that SE is probably not going to spend as much time on quests for gathering/crafting as for melee/magic.



Olo, I don't think people are asking for the game to be centered around DOL/DOH, however when it comes to leveling and questing, it goes back to what I've said in previous posts...it does need to have balance.
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#21 Feb 07 2011 at 5:49 PM Rating: Decent
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LillithaFenimore wrote:
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
AnnabelleCloud wrote:
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
I am all for quests but I am 100% against them directly rewarding SP. I think SP gain should come from the actual battles.


How would a Weaver or Botanist do that?



Ok. We gotta get this outta the way right now. Weavers and botanists are not going to be able to do all the same quests that Lancers and Thaumaturges can do. And Lancers and Thaumaturges will not be able to do the same quests that botanists and weavers can do.

I think that crafting and gathering classes should have their own quests going on but they shouldn't be able to make it so no quests ever have battles in them. I don't think making parley happen for every quest is a good idea. You will just have to let go of the idea that every job is going to be able to complete every quest.

Weavers could get SP in the quest from crafting the item asked for by the NPC (currently DoH quests don't give SP I think - which is a problem) etc. and from scroll rewards (as a possibility).

Botanists from chopping down the tree or the door or doing whatever that is part of the quest.

I think people who only want to level crafting and gathering need to recognize they are a tiny minority, however, and they can't ask for the whole game to be centered around them. People are going to have to realize that SE is probably not going to spend as much time on quests for gathering/crafting as for melee/magic.



Olo, I don't think people are asking for the game to be centered around DOL/DOH, however when it comes to leveling and questing, it goes back to what I've said in previous posts...it does need to have balance.


for DoH they could implement quests that are connected to the DoW/DoM ones like we need this item, and then instaid of getting sp for the item the crafter will get sp based on the quality of the item, said item could then be used in the same quest by DoW/DoM, of course the quest could be completed by DoW/DoM if no one has made that item, but it could add to the immersion a lil for DoH.

DoL could be tougher, however DoH and DoL would need quests to be craft so many of this item, there isnt much more to do but if you get more sp based on quality for DoH or maybe how many for DoL it could make the quests more enjoyable for them.

But as i say these quests could follow paralell paths as the DoW/DoM ones, just an idea
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#22 Feb 07 2011 at 6:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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I played WoW for a bit back when some friends got me to try it, it was during the lich king era in early 2010. Overall, I wasn't that fond of the game... It was fun for a little while, but it just got boring for me after a short while. It did some things well, I'll give it that, but the overall experience left too much to be desired all things considered.

It had some fun quests. I agree. But you can't deny that it had countless xp grind quests that were not fun at all. At early levels they were good, but I got sick of them pretty fast, and when I wanted to party up, the only way of doing so was the dungeon finder, which had numerous issues of it's own. The community was often spotty, the cross server thing was a pain, the dungeons ended up getting repetitive, which I know is odd given I loved the xp grind parties in FFXI... So idk why I got bored with dungeons so easily... I think it's because the combat just felt shallow, like a hack and slash game almost.

And hearing you mention that moss quest in selbina from FFXI... hehe... Don't pretend WoW didn't have it's fair share of that... The rep grind for the purple frostsabre mount and netherwing drake comes to mind...

But, with that said... I did love the selection of mounts. And though crafting in WoW was generally terrible imo, I also really liked engineering because of the various novelty toys it got... I had a load of fun running around with the druid kitty form and the world enlarger, /dancing and throwing fireworks. ^.^

But, as much as I appreciate novelties in a game, it takes more than that to keep me playing. Now don't get me wrong, I don't think WoW is a bad game, I just don't personally like it, nor do I like the design style for the PvE in the game. And PvP is totally not my thing, and since half the game revolves around it, well yeah... Self explanatory.

My main gripe, isn't really with Blizzard. They're doing their own thing, and that's great. It's all the blatant WoW clones that irk me. I like to see companies try their own hand at making an enjoyable game, not copy paste the current best seller. So while I can respect Blizzard, while not actually wanting to play WoW, I don't have much respect for all those games you see that just rip off 90% of the mechanics and tack on a slightly modified theme.

SE does things differently, and I like their style. I had plenty of fun with certain quests in FFXI, and the missions I think were flat out amazing. So many unique and challenging battles, and such a strong focus on party play really won me over. All the missions and quests I did in WoW just had no staying power with me. The biggest highlight of the game that I remember is running around town as a tiny kitty playfully enjoying the novelty, and even that was often ruined by immature and rude players that the game had so many of.

I guess that's getting off topic though... So my point is, I'd like to see SE stick with their own style for quests, it's good to have diversity on the market. They have no need for the xp grind quests that WoW used, as the leves are basically the same concept. So I'd like to see unique experiences for quests, and I don't think we should rush SE on them if we want them to really be worth while. It's not that I think the game doesn't need them, it does... In fact, so much so that I just want them to take their time and do them well instead of rushing out half assed ones. And though taking some feedback is fine, the last thing I want to see is for them to just copy other games systems.

Yes, if they try new things, they might flounder... But it's an mmo, and they can always patch in changes later... Just look at the wards for example... I think the wards at launch were utterly terrible, but at the same time, I can appreciate that SE went out on a limb and tried something new... It didn't work, people demanded they change them, and they did, which is how it should have gone. But if you want something better than the current average, you gotta be willing to try new stuff like that, and when you do, there's bound to be mistakes. But just look at the potential and party flexibility that the armory system adds when compared to the subjob system. Yes it still needs polish, but it's a pretty **** good idea imo. Just keep giving SE feedback and let them do some tinkering on their own terms, and I think we can get a really good mmo going here.
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#23 Feb 07 2011 at 6:55 PM Rating: Decent
Completely agree with the OP. WoW has some amazing and diverse quests that shouldnt be overlooked or ignored when making comparisons... also gotta say im a little confuzed by the people who say they hate WoW's "kill 6 boars" style of quests when currently FFXIV is pretty much "kill 6 dodos/squirrels/coblyns". Hate WoW all you want but lets not pretend that XIVs current quests are somehow different/better in being less varied.

At this point in time though i dont care what type of quests get added or what their rewards may be, anything to do right now thats not the same old same old would be more than welcome.

everyone here has some kind of faith that this game will one day be great. so i dont understand why the same believers are so quick to disagree with a certain style of quests when this game is seriously lacking in that department.
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#24 Feb 07 2011 at 7:43 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah I agree the leves are pretty lame atm, for the same reasons that the kill 6 boar quests were, and I hope they make some adjustments to them.

I still think they should take their time with the quests though. Otherwise they will just be "the same old same old".
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#25 Feb 08 2011 at 11:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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I want quests that allow me to ide a **** yellow bird!!! XD
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#26 Feb 08 2011 at 11:27 AM Rating: Decent
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I personally think that DoH and DoL really shouldn't be considered to be on the 'same level' as DoW and DoM, at least in this respect. Think about it rationally (as much as you can in a fantasy setting), how many tailors are going to go out adventuring into the world and talk the bad guys to death without so much as putting down that needle and picking up a sword or axe? It just seems stupid and it's going to harm the game in the long term because it'll damage the atmosphere of the game.

They've already made the main storyline too easy by appealing to crafters, I think they either need to add some kind of battle-relevance to crafting classes or alternatively make the decision that it's not worth making the experience for the actual adventurers worse for their sake.

I honest don't really understand why you'd come to FFXIV with the intention of just crafting anyway, it's a game built around the pretense of arming yourself and preparing for war. But that's another discussion.
#27 Feb 08 2011 at 11:37 AM Rating: Decent
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You need to be rewarded for quests. Quests make leveling tolerable and challenging - sure, as a mage you can farm big, hulking, slow-moving mobs that will die before they reach you, but if you are given quests that force you to fight mobs that you can't hit until you're in melee range you're forced to use different skills (and the opposite might hold true for a warrior-type).

Are "kill six boar" quests stupid? Sure. But if you don't have them, people will literally find out which mob gives the most experience with the littlest effort, and farm them non-stop - or until a leveling guide tells them to move on to another mob. Anything else is inefficient. When quests give you big XP or equipment boosts, people do them, and that's where game developers can make a game challenging (like leveling in WoW used to be). You should be encouraged to fight different kinds of mobs with different kinds of combat styles. You shouldn't be penalized for doing this, as you would be if quests didn't really help. You should be encouraged to group some things, solo other things. You should be encouraged to explore the map, not penalized - and anything that you waste time on that doesn't boost your character in some way is essentially a penalty.

Leveling in WoW was fun until it became way too easy. Then it's just a boring, monotonous chore. Quests are the mechanism by which developers can tune the difficulty of leveling to ensure it is very engaging. It's how non-MMO RPGs function. In a regular Final Fantasy game, you are sent from place to place with the expectation that the new mobs you fight on the new route will be pretty engaging, and you'll be using your new skills or weapons to deal with them. Yes, you can throw that off by grinding in one spot, which is easy in non-MMO games because it really doesn't take long to become OP. In an MMO, there should be sufficient quests that you don't want to waste any more time in an area grinding before hitting the new zone, and new challenges.
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#28 Feb 08 2011 at 11:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Levequests are, essentially, our 'kill 6 boars' equivalent to other MMO's. While I would like to see them spurced up a bit to involve more engaging combat, I think at their core they should remain simplistic "kill all" quests designed for the casual gamer who doesn't have time to get involved in a multi-tiered STORY.

Most people in this thread seem to agree that quests should have story and immersion, so I'll say simply that I agree and move on to my main point; I think that quests in the game should reward SP/EXP. While I would like to believe that every player on the planet shares my interest for an engaging plot, the fact of the matter is that many people who play MMO's enjoy a certain sense of progress that a quest without a substantial reward would not give. They are often going to ignore quests and such which don't reward SP/EXP or 'phat loot', not because they are greedy and only care about rewards, but because their goal in the game was to level up their class, and anything that does not help them achieve this is going to have to wait idly by until they do.

So, rather than potentially forcing people to choose between grinding their brains out, or being engaged with a fancy story that they're likely to enjoy if they have reason enough to become involved with it, I think it is simply more logical to offer SP/EXP rewards at the end of all quests, and bonus SP/EXP during events in the quests which involve fighting/crafting. I know I would personally prefer to level up through a plot than by being unusually aggressive towards wildlife.

Furthermore, SP/EXP rewards would likely work better in this game than 'phat loot' because any weapons or armor you give the player would need to be better than crafted armor at their level in order to be worth obtaining, which then causes a conflict with crafting classes who are now trying to compete with a quest that offers far superior gear.

I also think that rewarding a 'scroll' in lieu of SP/EXP is slightly silly and ultimately achieves the same goal as simply giving out SP/EXP upon the completion of a quest. I'm more likely to believe that my 'character' learned things during the quest than I am to believe that every NPC just carries around magical scrolls of EXP in case they need to entice adventurers with their social affairs.
#29 Feb 08 2011 at 11:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Dlaqev wrote:
I personally think that DoH and DoL really shouldn't be considered to be on the 'same level' as DoW and DoM, at least in this respect. Think about it rationally (as much as you can in a fantasy setting), how many tailors are going to go out adventuring into the world and talk the bad guys to death without so much as putting down that needle and picking up a sword or axe? It just seems stupid and it's going to harm the game in the long term because it'll damage the atmosphere of the game.

They've already made the main storyline too easy by appealing to crafters, I think they either need to add some kind of battle-relevance to crafting classes or alternatively make the decision that it's not worth making the experience for the actual adventurers worse for their sake.

I honest don't really understand why you'd come to FFXIV with the intention of just crafting anyway, it's a game built around the pretense of arming yourself and preparing for war. But that's another discussion.


Honestly, I don't think it's the fault of DoH/L classes that some of the quests in XIV is too easy. Sure, if S-E didn't implement the parley option for every quest then it would be a whole different story but some of the DoW/M class leves are pretty easy and their geared toward DoW/M only. I mean seriously, the r20 Lancer class quest is to kill a couple chigoes that con blue at r20. I do that for r10 leves on 5 stars by the time I'm r13... S-E introduced DoH/L as classes in the game, and that's in the past. I don't think it's fair to blame those classes for the easiness of the game (although they aren't helping.) I feel the easiness of the game is just an inherent problem with S-E trying to appeal to a broad audience and thus aren't quite sure of the game identity when it was released. (Is it for casual or hardcore gamers? Is it solo-grinding or party-based? Does it appeal to an older crowd or a younger audience? Do they want to rope in newcomers to the FF franchise or are they appealing to the faithful fans?)

That being said, I don't see why quest-content should be restricted to one group or another. Why can't quests be added across the board? It's not like it's hard to design quests that are crafter-specific and quests that are battling-specific. How many people played games that had fetch quests or delivery quests? Those don't exactly have to have an element of fighting, (although many times they do) so what's to stop S-E from doing something along those lines? Something like "The alchemist guild has been commissioned by the Knights of Baracuda to investigate the Wineport settlement because of an outbreak that's causing the population to fall ill. Go to the settlement and determine if there is foul play, and if a cure can be concocted." would work well as a crafter-specific quest. I'm sure someone with far more creativity could come up with something.

#30 Feb 08 2011 at 11:46 AM Rating: Decent
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theSubligaravenger wrote:
Completely agree with the OP. WoW has some amazing and diverse quests that shouldnt be overlooked or ignored when making comparisons... also gotta say im a little confuzed by the people who say they hate WoW's "kill 6 boars" style of quests when currently FFXIV is pretty much "kill 6 dodos/squirrels/coblyns". Hate WoW all you want but lets not pretend that XIVs current quests are somehow different/better in being less varied.


Unless you don't really pay attention or ignoring this to try to ground your argument, a lot of people dislike the repetitious nature of guidleves and want more variety/fun styled ones (e.g the Faction leves are a lot more at times than the typical regional ones.)

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#31 Feb 08 2011 at 11:58 AM Rating: Default
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As for story/chain quests, the most fun ones, IMHO, are the "kill 20 guards, poison the water supply, steal their flag to draw out the captain and kill him" type quests. Those are just kinda mini-dungeons, and, while they'd be a great addition to FFXIV, does FFXIV even have anything like this set up? Towers where some enemy faction might be? Farms taken over by cultists?
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#32 Feb 08 2011 at 12:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Transmigration wrote:
I've been ignoring people's generalization of xp quests in other mmos for a while, but I think I'm going to break my silence on this.

I don't know what game you're playing, but it seems most of the comparisons used come from world of warcraft. I'll just stick to that since it seems to be the standard nowadays. Not all quests are "kill 6 boars" type of quests. If you really think that, then you didn't get far enough into the game to have an opinion on it. There were myriads of quests involving assassination, thievery, infiltration, defensive battles, vehicles and artillery, and many many other very @#%^ing interesting situations. .

A quest where you have to man a catapult to fend off incoming hostile invasions. A quest where you're in the back of a plane having to use machine guns to shoot down pursuing enemy flying machines. Assassination of the scarlet crusade generals, leaders, high priest, etc. An entire story built up around this that follows you for the entire game. I could list them all day, that's just the tip of the ice berg.

If you don't think that these type of quests are immersive, well written, and fun; I don't know what to tell you. Sometimes I think the people on these forums just spout bullsh*t about things they're biased against with absolutely nothing to back it up with.

I don't care if the quests give SP and Items, or only one of the two. They must however be somewhat competitive with quests in other games. In FFXI quests other than the missions, were for the most part (at least 75%) dry, detached, and gave no incentive for players to do them. Turning in an entire inventory of moss to some sheep herder in selbina comes to mind. It would be a real bummer if that's what SE has planned for FFXIV.

Please voice your opinion on this, but please try not to be biased or angry toward other games and stay on the topic of quests.



Edited, Feb 7th 2011 3:09pm by Transmigration



I disagree. If you think that quests in XI were mostly dry it becomes obvious to me you never quested enough. There were no reasons to do a lot of the quests, but 75% of them had a really nice immersive storyline even though they weren't about assasination or shooting down someone from some vehicle.
Did you know for example, that in selbina (or maybe it was mhaura) you can do a sidequest which reveals a bit more information about the lost sister of the leader of the tenshodo? XI is filled with a lot of moving quests, even though there was no reason to do them other than the plot itself as the rewards sucked.

It'd be pretty idiotic not to award SP for questing. People who don't want it are either too foolish or too much of role playing elitists. Claiming to do the quests just for the sake of questing? Yeah maybe you and me, but the average player won't do it just for that, and you can't possibly put worthwile rewards on -every- single quest.

Oh and even the grinding quests in XI were freaking memorable. Having to light the faroles on jeuno? Come the **** on. That'd show even for other players as only one person could take it per game night.
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#33 Feb 08 2011 at 4:23 PM Rating: Default
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
theSubligaravenger wrote:
Completely agree with the OP. WoW has some amazing and diverse quests that shouldnt be overlooked or ignored when making comparisons... also gotta say im a little confuzed by the people who say they hate WoW's "kill 6 boars" style of quests when currently FFXIV is pretty much "kill 6 dodos/squirrels/coblyns". Hate WoW all you want but lets not pretend that XIVs current quests are somehow different/better in being less varied.


Unless you don't really pay attention or ignoring this to try to ground your argument, a lot of people dislike the repetitious nature of guidleves and want more variety/fun styled ones (e.g the Faction leves are a lot more at times than the typical regional ones.)



I wasnt aware i was making an argument, sweet. unfortunately i really am too stupid to see it, care to point it out for me?

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#34 Feb 08 2011 at 4:24 PM Rating: Good
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MajidahSihaam wrote:
Oh and even the grinding quests in XI were freaking memorable. Having to light the faroles on jeuno? Come the **** on. That'd show even for other players as only one person could take it per game night.
I did that quest at least a dozen times trying to lock down the fastest possible time that I could.
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#35 Feb 08 2011 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
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Guild Wars style missions please.
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#36 Feb 08 2011 at 4:33 PM Rating: Default
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[quote=Dlaqev]I personally think that DoH and DoL really shouldn't be considered to be on the 'same level' as DoW and DoM, at least in this respect. Think about it rationally (as much as you can in a fantasy setting), how many tailors are going to go out adventuring into the world and talk the bad guys to death without so much as putting down that needle and picking up a sword or axe? It just seems stupid and it's going to harm the game in the long term because it'll damage the atmosphere of the game.

They've already made the main storyline too easy by appealing to crafters, I think they either need to add some kind of battle-relevance to crafting classes or alternatively make the decision that it's not worth making the experience for the actual adventurers worse for their sake.

I honest don't really understand why you'd come to FFXIV with the intention of just crafting anyway, it's a game built around the pretense of arming yourself and preparing for war. But that's another discussion.[/quote]

Well, SE is the one that made the DOL/DOH jobs equal in leveling and progression to DOM/DOW. And some people enjoy doing that sort of stuff, who are we to say what is enjoyable to others that you don't find enjoyable? To each there own. However you can't ignore that SE made those classes in a way an equal to the others, so if they keep it that way, they do have to some how incorporate those classes into others aspects of this game to make those who do them, enjoyable.
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#37 Feb 08 2011 at 7:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Why wouldn't you just craft or harvest? A good MMORPG, in my opinion, encompasses all aspects of life and recreates them in a persistent world. It doesn't always have to be about killing some big bad monster for phat lewtz.

A game in which you can be just a crafter or a harvester is fantastic and welcome imo. Now if you're saying that it's pretty boring in FFXIV I have to say I agree, for reasons other than what quests should be.
#38 Feb 08 2011 at 10:05 PM Rating: Good
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For example. Level 15. You get asked by a PUG(or whatever) in training to deliver a package to some shady character. You get caught by the guards and are placed in jail. You break out only to find that the package you were supposed to deliver was stolen and taken to the Copperbell mines. Throughout the way you see another shady character that may be an imperial spy...you chase him down an alley, but find that he disappeared, but left something behind...It's the package. You deliver the package then retrieve your reward (A pair of Original Cesti or whatever)


While it sounds good as a story on paper, in practice if you break it down it will still be a "go to Y to deliver Z" "kill X" quest. If you truly mean good quests, at least it has to offer more than one method in completing the objective. That's why SE tried to put in Parley, but they missed out the steps before that Parley: Conversation Choice.

You know what I would like? Quests like Dark Brotherhood's or Thieves Guild's in Oblivion, or the investigative ones in that game where you need to find clues, the more clues you find the more option you get at how to end the quest. Creative different ways to kill X and go to Y to deliver/take Z.

Seikninkuru wrote:
Why wouldn't you just craft or harvest? A good MMORPG, in my opinion, encompasses all aspects of life and recreates them in a persistent world. It doesn't always have to be about killing some big bad monster for phat lewtz.

A game in which you can be just a crafter or a harvester is fantastic and welcome imo. Now if you're saying that it's pretty boring in FFXIV I have to say I agree, for reasons other than what quests should be.


Yes but they should go farther than that to be fantastic, recently there has been a HUGE hype over an indie MMO called "Xsyon Earth 2012: Prelude", because the game takes a step further by letting you terraforming the World with gathering/crafting, i.e. you can dig a river or craft a hamlet.

Edited, Feb 8th 2011 11:08pm by Khornette
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#39 Feb 09 2011 at 1:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Kierk wrote:
I want good quests.

I want them to be engaging with their primary effect to be immersion.

Quests should take you new and interesting places involved within the game's lore. You should fight interesting monsters along the way, then there should be a challenging battle at the end, and then the trek home to turn it in. The reward should be pretty big. Or it can be a multi-tired fetch quests but is really involving. Or it can be both, or a million other things.

WoW had a few quests like this; that were innovative and involving. Though it diluted the pool with too many of the same "Kill 10 Rats."

FFXI's quests were good because they weren't diluted. The downside was that there was no real point to do them. The other downside was that you HAD to do some quests in order to proceed.

SO I guess the point is, WoW disguises the grind at the cost of substantial questing, while FFXI had substantial content but a helluva grind.

FFXIV can I think bridge this gap, by including more of the quests they're good at; storied quests. Longer, multi-tiered quests for gear and or armor that would (if needed) force people to group up and become communal again.

For example. Level 15. You get asked by a PUG(or whatever) in training to deliver a package to some shady character. You get caught by the guards and are placed in jail. You break out only to find that the package you were supposed to deliver was stolen and taken to the Copperbell mines. Throughout the way you see another shady character that may be an imperial spy...you chase him down an alley, but find that he disappeared, but left something behind...It's the package. You deliver the package then retrieve your reward (A pair of Original Cesti or whatever)

Now, that took me all of 5min to come up with that idea-wise.

BUT is that unreasonable to expect that sort of immersion say, every 2 levels or so? Maybe?

How do you incorporate those sorts of quests with an MMO?

Who knows. I have ideas, but no one's paying me for them, that's all up to Yoshi-P. :)


totally agree, you said it just right. Theres not reason we cant have quests just like what you said. Severa story/guild missions actually remind me of your scenario. Luckily the mechanics are in place to do exactly what you said, using instances (hopefully not exclusively, because that would suck) for the more story intensive quests at least.

give us reasons to visit new places on the map, and things to do, people to meet/fight alongside. and give us a bunch of NMs as mini bosses. etc.
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