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Why is this so difficult SE??? ><Follow

#1 Feb 09 2011 at 11:40 AM Rating: Default
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I don't understand. Why is it so hard to implement some of these changes that everyone obviously seems to want. Put some mobs in every 5-10 levels that are only killable by a group of 5-6 players and then curb the SP gains accordingly. Put in some NM's at different levels (not just endgame) and create some items that people actually want (i.e, leaping boots, Emp. Pin etc). Sure some of the changes like new story relevant quests and an Auction House may take some time. But just simply changing the strength of certain mobs to require parties and adding a few HQ drops along the way doesn't seem that hard to do. Am I missing something? Wouldn't these changes go a long way to getting people excited about the game again? Behest seems to be getting more and more popular, I have to think that people would respond favorably to more party oriented content. Eh?
#2 Feb 09 2011 at 11:47 AM Rating: Default
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1) people dont care about an AH anymore with the new system, and those that do, its cuz its not called an auction house
2)there are mobs that give great SP for partying rather then solo, look into it
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#3 Feb 09 2011 at 11:51 AM Rating: Good
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I personally dont just want the same experience from other mmos. I want something better or even just different, I want SE to come up with something interesting and new.

I have mentionned in other threads that this comes back to a difference in culture. Japanese dont subscribe to the 'if it aint broke dont fix it' mentality. Ingrained in their culture is the desire to do things better, even if they are working well they will try and do better in every area. Sometimes this leads to something seemingly not being as good at first but the constant improvement mentality will mean we end up with something better than what we would if we simply left alone what 'aint broke'
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#4 Feb 09 2011 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
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I will say what I have said a few times on this sort of "how hard is this and that" post.

If its not that hard you make a mmo thats better if its not hard, if you dont know about programming heres a free lesson for you, even the simplest things take time changing mob lvls i admit is just change one number, the other variables should be inplace to scale stats.

But new gear requires alot more work, like what they will look like on the player, stats, description etc etc, just for one pair of boots your looking at about 100+ lines of code, and if they just adapted the xi code to the xiv code with what people were like at the release of the game they would say "there getting lazy again" "omg first copy and pase terrain, now copy and paste gear" also the mentality on xi now is "ewww reskinned zones mobs and gear" if they just used the code from xi for gear then people would be just the same.

also you can have some perfectly working code, then add something and break the whole file, then have to check the entire file to find the problem.
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#5 Feb 09 2011 at 12:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Clearly the people who make posts like these have never worked in any sort of IT shop either developing or testing code. These "simple changes" can take months to go from the design phase, through implementation and testing, through the release phase and possibly another round of testing then eventually into our hands. Things can't go from idea to perfect implementation as quickly as some would like to think.
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#6 Feb 09 2011 at 12:29 PM Rating: Decent
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i am new to final fantasy.
This game indeed is different than other (and i like it this way), its the few rare mmo that allow me to play with my controller.
Its hard to start with but after learning how this work, its amazing the potencial this game have.

I have find some "dungeons" where mobs are harder to kill and require a party, the exp is great.
Pll may not know them yet i think, or just a few does, yet, remember this game is new
#7 Feb 09 2011 at 12:36 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Vedis wrote:
1) people dont care about an AH anymore with the new system, and those that do, its cuz its not called an auction house
It's still not an AH, they're just trying to simulate an AH without giving up their idea, the market wards. Unfortunately this means that we're probably stuck with a somewhat inferior system. We're likely going to always need to go and find the actual retainer, for example, instead of just buying the item we want from the search menu.
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#8 Feb 09 2011 at 12:54 PM Rating: Default
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bsphil wrote:
Vedis wrote:
1) people dont care about an AH anymore with the new system, and those that do, its cuz its not called an auction house
It's still not an AH, they're just trying to simulate an AH without giving up their idea, the market wards. Unfortunately this means that we're probably stuck with a somewhat inferior system. We're likely going to always need to go and find the actual retainer, for example, instead of just buying the item we want from the search menu.


If The only inferior thing about the system is walking one step to a markrd retainer and your still complaining then your sad. Get over it. It works and it works fine. In fact its better because i can sell 20 items at once instead of 7 that ff11 made me sell. i can not wait to get more retainers!

Now about those crashes..... (which i admitt it has gotten better but how about zero crashes?). AH crashed sometimes as well i remeber not being able to search for a half hour at times. Nuthin is perfect and a AH is far for perfect.

Edited, Feb 9th 2011 1:55pm by dnored
#9 Feb 09 2011 at 12:55 PM Rating: Default
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I haven't really seen anyone requesting these changes anymore. The new market system is fine and group SP is good now. Personally, I like the market ward system. It's new and different, just like the auction house was in FFXI back in 2003 or whenever. I feel that it also adds immersion in the game that I have to actually go and find my item from a bunch of vendors.

I think the limited amount of bazaar space is supposed to keep the market from getting flooded with a bunch of the same items (like bronze needles or something easy to make), as most MMOs have this problem. Unfortunately we seem to be suffering from the opposite problem and no one ever has the really easy stuff for sale (who wants to make 500 gil on a bronze needle when they could put up their 30,000 gil item instead?). I actually had to level carpentry just to make a bow because the lowest level one for sale was 30+.
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#10 Feb 09 2011 at 12:55 PM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
Vedis wrote:
1) people dont care about an AH anymore with the new system, and those that do, its cuz its not called an auction house
It's still not an AH, they're just trying to simulate an AH without giving up their idea, the market wards. Unfortunately this means that we're probably stuck with a somewhat inferior system. We're likely going to always need to go and find the actual retainer, for example, instead of just buying the item we want from the search menu.



You choose your item, have a pink star over the retainer, and buy your item.
I like not just sitting at a counter but examining peoples prices and what they have to offer
from colored gear and if something is +1 +2 or +3 i find it a nice change.
Im with those who could careless about an AH at this point
#11 Feb 09 2011 at 1:33 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
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dnored wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Vedis wrote:
1) people dont care about an AH anymore with the new system, and those that do, its cuz its not called an auction house
It's still not an AH, they're just trying to simulate an AH without giving up their idea, the market wards. Unfortunately this means that we're probably stuck with a somewhat inferior system. We're likely going to always need to go and find the actual retainer, for example, instead of just buying the item we want from the search menu.


If The only inferior thing about the system is walking one step to a markrd retainer and your still complaining then your sad. Get over it. It works and it works fine. In fact its better because i can sell 20 items at once instead of 7 that ff11 made me sell. i can not wait to get more retainers!

Now about those crashes..... (which i admitt it has gotten better but how about zero crashes?). AH crashed sometimes as well i remeber not being able to search for a half hour at times. Nuthin is perfect and a AH is far for perfect.
Nowhere did I imply that the FFXI system is perfect. Just better. There would be no reason, for example, to carry over the 7 item restriction from FFXI.
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#12 Feb 09 2011 at 1:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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dnored wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Vedis wrote:
1) people dont care about an AH anymore with the new system, and those that do, its cuz its not called an auction house
It's still not an AH, they're just trying to simulate an AH without giving up their idea, the market wards. Unfortunately this means that we're probably stuck with a somewhat inferior system. We're likely going to always need to go and find the actual retainer, for example, instead of just buying the item we want from the search menu.


If The only inferior thing about the system is walking one step to a markrd retainer and your still complaining then your sad. Get over it. It works and it works fine. In fact its better because i can sell 20 items at once instead of 7 that ff11 made me sell. i can not wait to get more retainers!
Edited, Feb 9th 2011 1:55pm by dnored


That's all fine and dandy for one item and if you buy from the first retainer you see, if you want to stock up on something it involves running from retainer to retainer to check...now do that for multiple items and you can see why it's not as convenient.

#13 Feb 09 2011 at 1:52 PM Rating: Good
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The retainers are by now just a crippled AH.

Quote:
If The only inferior thing about the system is walking one step
to a markrd retainer and your still complaining then your sad.


Yes, having to walk to every retainer separately because some items aren't
sold in stacks is a hassle for me. It's just a completely unnecessary in-
convenience. One of a thousand in this game. Id adds up. If you think that's
sad, you're sad.

Btw: It's not even "walking one step" (I've been walking quite a few million
of steps in this game already, so I should know). It's shoving your way
through a horde of brainless twitching zombies (do they moan?) every time you
want to buy a brass nugget.
#14 Feb 09 2011 at 2:16 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
dnored wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Vedis wrote:
1) people dont care about an AH anymore with the new system, and those that do, its cuz its not called an auction house
It's still not an AH, they're just trying to simulate an AH without giving up their idea, the market wards. Unfortunately this means that we're probably stuck with a somewhat inferior system. We're likely going to always need to go and find the actual retainer, for example, instead of just buying the item we want from the search menu.


If The only inferior thing about the system is walking one step to a markrd retainer and your still complaining then your sad. Get over it. It works and it works fine. In fact its better because i can sell 20 items at once instead of 7 that ff11 made me sell. i can not wait to get more retainers!

Now about those crashes..... (which i admitt it has gotten better but how about zero crashes?). AH crashed sometimes as well i remeber not being able to search for a half hour at times. Nuthin is perfect and a AH is far for perfect.
Nowhere did I imply that the FFXI system is perfect. Just better. There would be no reason, for example, to carry over the 7 item restriction from FFXI.


This. Honestly, there shouldn't need to be a limit to the amount of items you can sell at once anyway IMO. Maybe limit the total quantity of a single type of item so that you can't flood the AH with one thing, but "FFXIV lets you sell 20 things and FFXI lets you sell 7 so FFXIV is better" is not valid logic, unless you're going to follow your point through and say that a game that allows you to sell 30 items, or 50 items, or unlimited items is then better than FFXIV?

The FFXIV market system is a -huge- improvement over what it was, but if could still stand to be streamlined more and made better.

The ability to decide to buy directly from the search interface -or- to go into the wards and look yourself, whichever the buyer prefers, would be nice.

The ability to list the item at the interface if you would prefer that to going to your retainer would be nice.

The ability to search for items by typing in part of an item name would be nice.

The ability to search for items by stat (e.g. Swords with +STR on them or Robes with +MP on them) would be nice.

The ability to view what an item is going to look like on you via the search window would be nice.

The ability to list more items would be nice.

The ability to receive notifications when your item has sold would be nice.

That's just seven things, right off the top of my head, that could still be improved upon. The current system is much much better than it used to be, and it is now low priority until other things such as content are addressed FIRST, but eventually they will have to come back and continue improving the market system. The current system is "manageable and tolerable". You do not simply stop working on something and consider it done when it is "tolerable", you simply move on to more important things and come back to it later.

The notion that "The system is good enough, and therefore it needs no more work ever" is highly flawed, and yet I see a few people who honestly seem to believe that even though the system isn't perfect (by their own admission), that "good enough" is good enough.
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#15 Feb 09 2011 at 2:24 PM Rating: Good
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I will say what I have said a few times on this sort of "how hard is this and that" post.

If its not that hard you make a mmo thats better if its not hard, if you dont know about programming heres a free lesson for you, even the simplest things take time changing mob lvls i admit is just change one number, the other variables should be inplace to scale stats.

But new gear requires alot more work, like what they will look like on the player, stats, description etc etc, just for one pair of boots your looking at about 100+ lines of code, and if they just adapted the xi code to the xiv code with what people were like at the release of the game they would say "there getting lazy again" "omg first copy and pase terrain, now copy and paste gear" also the mentality on xi now is "ewww reskinned zones mobs and gear" if they just used the code from xi for gear then people would be just the same.

also you can have some perfectly working code, then add something and break the whole file, then have to check the entire file to find the problem.


everything you said makes sense. the only problem with thew "it takes time to..." argument is that they have had time. an abundance of it actually. the game was being developed for how many years? we know the game was released "early" (incomplete) so where is all that content that they didnt have time to add to the game due to its rushed launch?

santa gear and usagi helms couldnt have been the only things left out at launch.
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#16 Feb 09 2011 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
bsphil wrote:
dnored wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Vedis wrote:
1) people dont care about an AH anymore with the new system, and those that do, its cuz its not called an auction house
It's still not an AH, they're just trying to simulate an AH without giving up their idea, the market wards. Unfortunately this means that we're probably stuck with a somewhat inferior system. We're likely going to always need to go and find the actual retainer, for example, instead of just buying the item we want from the search menu.


If The only inferior thing about the system is walking one step to a markrd retainer and your still complaining then your sad. Get over it. It works and it works fine. In fact its better because i can sell 20 items at once instead of 7 that ff11 made me sell. i can not wait to get more retainers!

Now about those crashes..... (which i admitt it has gotten better but how about zero crashes?). AH crashed sometimes as well i remeber not being able to search for a half hour at times. Nuthin is perfect and a AH is far for perfect.
Nowhere did I imply that the FFXI system is perfect. Just better. There would be no reason, for example, to carry over the 7 item restriction from FFXI.


This. Honestly, there shouldn't need to be a limit to the amount of items you can sell at once anyway IMO. Maybe limit the total quantity of a single type of item so that you can't flood the AH with one thing, but "FFXIV lets you sell 20 things and FFXI lets you sell 7 so FFXIV is better" is not valid logic, unless you're going to follow your point through and say that a game that allows you to sell 30 items, or 50 items, or unlimited items is then better than FFXIV?

The FFXIV market system is a -huge- improvement over what it was, but if could still stand to be streamlined more and made better.

The ability to decide to buy directly from the search interface -or- to go into the wards and look yourself, whichever the buyer prefers, would be nice.

The ability to list the item at the interface if you would prefer that to going to your retainer would be nice.

The ability to search for items by typing in part of an item name would be nice.

The ability to search for items by stat (e.g. Swords with +STR on them or Robes with +MP on them) would be nice.

The ability to view what an item is going to look like on you via the search window would be nice.

The ability to list more items would be nice.

The ability to receive notifications when your item has sold would be nice.

That's just seven things, right off the top of my head, that could still be improved upon. The current system is much much better than it used to be, and it is now low priority until other things such as content are addressed FIRST, but eventually they will have to come back and continue improving the market system. The current system is "manageable and tolerable". You do not simply stop working on something and consider it done when it is "tolerable", you simply move on to more important things and come back to it later.

The notion that "The system is good enough, and therefore it needs no more work ever" is highly flawed, and yet I see a few people who honestly seem to believe that even though the system isn't perfect (by their own admission), that "good enough" is good enough.


The ability to set your retainer to sell, and retrieve them from the wards, at the retainer bell would be nice.
#17 Feb 09 2011 at 2:52 PM Rating: Decent
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I've never been into the retainer/ward thing. It's clumsy and overly complicated. Traditional auction houses, as seen in FFXI and WoW, are loads more practical and easier to use.
#18 Feb 09 2011 at 3:04 PM Rating: Decent
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wow did not know lots of people would react to my post so without quoting eveyone i will just answer here.

Is this system in place (be honest) so unuseable that you can not find EVERYTHING you are looking for?
The answer is no.
While i must admitt AH after years of work is easier i can not say its better because i do not have to walk to a marked retainer.

IMO all they need is to show +1 items and then the system is fine. picking from a list and picking from a retianer is not end all be all that you people make it out to be im sorry but we will have to aggree to disagree.
#19 Feb 09 2011 at 3:10 PM Rating: Default
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
bsphil wrote:
dnored wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Vedis wrote:
1) people dont care about an AH anymore with the new system, and those that do, its cuz its not called an auction house
It's still not an AH, they're just trying to simulate an AH without giving up their idea, the market wards. Unfortunately this means that we're probably stuck with a somewhat inferior system. We're likely going to always need to go and find the actual retainer, for example, instead of just buying the item we want from the search menu.


If The only inferior thing about the system is walking one step to a markrd retainer and your still complaining then your sad. Get over it. It works and it works fine. In fact its better because i can sell 20 items at once instead of 7 that ff11 made me sell. i can not wait to get more retainers!

Now about those crashes..... (which i admitt it has gotten better but how about zero crashes?). AH crashed sometimes as well i remeber not being able to search for a half hour at times. Nuthin is perfect and a AH is far for perfect.
Nowhere did I imply that the FFXI system is perfect. Just better. There would be no reason, for example, to carry over the 7 item restriction from FFXI.


This. Honestly, there shouldn't need to be a limit to the amount of items you can sell at once anyway IMO. Maybe limit the total quantity of a single type of item so that you can't flood the AH with one thing, but "FFXIV lets you sell 20 things and FFXI lets you sell 7 so FFXIV is better" is not valid logic, unless you're going to follow your point through and say that a game that allows you to sell 30 items, or 50 items, or unlimited items is then better than FFXIV?

The FFXIV market system is a -huge- improvement over what it was, but if could still stand to be streamlined more and made better.

The ability to decide to buy directly from the search interface -or- to go into the wards and look yourself, whichever the buyer prefers, would be nice.

The ability to list the item at the interface if you would prefer that to going to your retainer would be nice.

The ability to search for items by typing in part of an item name would be nice.

The ability to search for items by stat (e.g. Swords with +STR on them or Robes with +MP on them) would be nice.

The ability to view what an item is going to look like on you via the search window would be nice.

The ability to list more items would be nice.

The ability to receive notifications when your item has sold would be nice.

That's just seven things, right off the top of my head, that could still be improved upon. The current system is much much better than it used to be, and it is now low priority until other things such as content are addressed FIRST, but eventually they will have to come back and continue improving the market system. The current system is "manageable and tolerable". You do not simply stop working on something and consider it done when it is "tolerable", you simply move on to more important things and come back to it later.

The notion that "The system is good enough, and therefore it needs no more work ever" is highly flawed, and yet I see a few people who honestly seem to believe that even though the system isn't perfect (by their own admission), that "good enough" is good enough.


you on the other hand i will answer because im lost as to what you are talking about.
All those things you metioned can be done in the market wards. no need for a complete overhaul of a system in place.
No where did i say the system does not need work or no where did i say "The system is good enough, and therefore it needs no more work ever". i said and if your sad about running to a marked retainer then your sad. In fact i said they need to work on the crashes so i have no clue where this is coming from.

edit:
Mab you were not talking directly to me, however what i said still stands.

Edited, Feb 9th 2011 4:20pm by dnored
#20 Feb 09 2011 at 3:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Metin wrote:
I personally dont just want the same experience from other mmos. I want something better or even just different, I want SE to come up with something interesting and new.

I have mentionned in other threads that this comes back to a difference in culture. Japanese dont subscribe to the 'if it aint broke dont fix it' mentality. Ingrained in their culture is the desire to do things better, even if they are working well they will try and do better in every area. Sometimes this leads to something seemingly not being as good at first but the constant improvement mentality will mean we end up with something better than what we would if we simply left alone what 'aint broke'

How did you come up with this?
#21 Feb 09 2011 at 3:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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dnored wrote:
you on the other hand i will answer because im lost as to what you are talking about.
All those things you metioned can be done in the market wards. no need for a complete overhaul of a system in place.
No where did i say the system does not need work or no where did i say "The system is good enough, and therefore it needs no more work ever". i said and if your sad about running to a marked retainer then your sad. In fact i said they need to work on the crashes so i have no clue where this is coming from.


Quoting from your post that was RIGHT BEFORE THIS ONE:

dnored wrote:
IMO all they need is to show +1 items and then the system is fine.


I really can't dissect this any further because it contradicts what you just said as written. How can you claim "No where did i say the system does not need work or no where did i say "The system is good enough, and therefore it needs no more work ever"." [sic] immediately after claiming "IMO all they need is to show +1 items and then the system is fine."

The system needs A LOT more work. It is not fine; it is tolerable. Unless, to you, "tolerable" = "fine"?

And from the post before that:

dnored wrote:
If The only inferior thing about the system is walking one step to a markrd retainer and your still complaining then your sad. Get over it. It works and it works fine. In fact its better because i can sell 20 items at once instead of 7 that ff11 made me sell. i can not wait to get more retainers!


The only thing you added after that was "Oh yeah, it crashed, but an AH can crash too!" This point pretty bluntly states that you only state ONE DIFFERENCE between an AH and the market wards, and that you think the market wards are better simply because you can sell more items. Did you know that (game that shall not be mentioned) lets you sell an unlimited number of items? By your logic that "I can sell more items" = "Better system", would it be fair to say that (game that shall not be mentioned) has a better market system?

In summary:

The market wards system needs a lot more work than just "all they need is to show +1 items and then [it] is fine".

I'm not even saying you have to call it an Auction House. Call it Qrrbrbirlbel for all I care. I'm just saying that the current system is not fine. It is not okay. It is -tolerable-. It still needs A LOT more work.
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#22 Feb 09 2011 at 3:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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#23 Feb 09 2011 at 4:17 PM Rating: Default
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
dnored wrote:
you on the other hand i will answer because im lost as to what you are talking about.
All those things you metioned can be done in the market wards. no need for a complete overhaul of a system in place.
No where did i say the system does not need work or no where did i say "The system is good enough, and therefore it needs no more work ever". i said and if your sad about running to a marked retainer then your sad. In fact i said they need to work on the crashes so i have no clue where this is coming from.


Quoting from your post that was RIGHT BEFORE THIS ONE:

dnored wrote:
IMO all they need is to show +1 items and then the system is fine.


I really can't dissect this any further because it contradicts what you just said as written. How can you claim "No where did i say the system does not need work or no where did i say "The system is good enough, and therefore it needs no more work ever"." [sic] immediately after claiming "IMO all they need is to show +1 items and then the system is fine."

The system needs A LOT more work. It is not fine; it is tolerable. Unless, to you, "tolerable" = "fine"?

And from the post before that:

dnored wrote:
If The only inferior thing about the system is walking one step to a markrd retainer and your still complaining then your sad. Get over it. It works and it works fine. In fact its better because i can sell 20 items at once instead of 7 that ff11 made me sell. i can not wait to get more retainers!


The only thing you added after that was "Oh yeah, it crashed, but an AH can crash too!" This point pretty bluntly states that you only state ONE DIFFERENCE between an AH and the market wards, and that you think the market wards are better simply because you can sell more items. Did you know that (game that shall not be mentioned) lets you sell an unlimited number of items? By your logic that "I can sell more items" = "Better system", would it be fair to say that (game that shall not be mentioned) has a better market system?

In summary:

The market wards system needs a lot more work than just "all they need is to show +1 items and then [it] is fine".

I'm not even saying you have to call it an Auction House. Call it Qrrbrbirlbel for all I care. I'm just saying that the current system is not fine. It is not okay. It is -tolerable-. It still needs A LOT more work.


Ok if you are quoting from me then what i said stands.

Again can you find EVERYthing you need? answer yes = system is fine (now i know u write walls of text and you seem to assume everything so let me make this clear)
Fine= no need for a complete overhaul to the system but updates are very welcome. (second time i said that)

If i said the system is fine but needs updates then that means i contradicted myself? do you know what that means? Just because i said "Its fine" means to you that they never need to update it? wow your grasphing. i could under stand if i said "its perfect" but i did not. i said its fine. yes all those additions would be great but if i can find EVERYSINGLE thing im looking for them the system works dude....

TO BE CLEAR
The market wards works as of the last update. Can it use updates? YES is it perfect? NO. but stop acting like its so bad that you can not use it i mean **** you people who are rank 15 prolly used it once or twice and if you do use it i bet you find things fast and easy (like everyone esle) because its an easy system to use. (now TO BE CLEAR) is it the easiest system on the planet to use? NO but neither was the AH. but its does not make shopping horrid like it was when it first came out. you can find what you are looking for then the system works. SE updated the wards every single update they released so expect more to come but it will add things not a complete overhaul because what they have works fine.

**** i was for the AH intill the last update.. i dont need a new system that no one esle has because its not needed. what is need is a system where i can sell and find goods and they have one that works fine.



#24 Feb 09 2011 at 5:08 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
Holy crap, your posts make my brain hurt. Can you see if any retainers are selling proofreading services?

dnored wrote:

Ok if you are quoting from me then what i said stands.

Again can you find EVERYthing you need? answer yes = system is fine (now i know u write walls of text and you seem to assume everything so let me make this clear)
Fine= no need for a complete overhaul to the system but updates are very welcome. (second time i said that)


You could find everything you needed BEFORE the searches too, it just took way longer. So by your logic, the system was "fine" in its inception too, right?

dnored wrote:
If i said the system is fine but needs updates then that means i contradicted myself? do you know what that means? Just because i said "Its fine" means to you that they never need to update it? wow your grasphing. i could under stand if i said "its perfect" but i did not. i said its fine. yes all those additions would be great but if i can find EVERYSINGLE thing im looking for them the system works dude....


The system needs a lot more work before it is "fine". Furthermore, I'm not sure what a "grasphing" is, and I don't have one.

I also never said it didn't work; I said it needs a lot more work done to it before it is "fine". It is currently "tolerable".

dnored wrote:
TO BE CLEAR
The market wards works as of the last update. Can it use updates? YES is it perfect? NO. but stop acting like its so bad that you can not use it i mean **** you people who are rank 15 prolly used it once or twice and if you do use it i bet you find things fast and easy (like everyone esle) because its an easy system to use. (now TO BE CLEAR) is it the easiest system on the planet to use? NO but neither was the AH. but its does not make shopping horrid like it was when it first came out. you can find what you are looking for then the system works. SE updated the wards every single update they released so expect more to come but it will add things not a complete overhaul because what they have works fine.

sh*t i was for the AH intill the last update.. i dont need a new system that no one esle has because its not needed. what is need is a system where i can sell and find goods and they have one that works fine.


By your logic ("if it works, then it's fine"), a car that is rusty, spews smoke, is missing a door, and has a huge crack in the windshield is "fine", just so long as it still "works", right? Doesn't matter how many problems it has, doesn't matter how it looks, doesn't matter how much improvement it needs, just so long as the car can start and drive, then the car is "fine", and just so long as you can locate goods, then the market system is "fine"? If you honestly believe that "it works" is -all- that something needs to be "fine" then all I can say is that you have a really low bar in terms of expectations of a product.
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#25 Feb 09 2011 at 5:16 PM Rating: Default
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86 posts
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Holy crap, your posts make my brain hurt. Can you see if any retainers are selling proofreading services?

dnored wrote:

Ok if you are quoting from me then what i said stands.

Again can you find EVERYthing you need? answer yes = system is fine (now i know u write walls of text and you seem to assume everything so let me make this clear)
Fine= no need for a complete overhaul to the system but updates are very welcome. (second time i said that)


You could find everything you needed BEFORE the searches too, it just took way longer. So by your logic, the system was "fine" in its inception too, right?

dnored wrote:
If i said the system is fine but needs updates then that means i contradicted myself? do you know what that means? Just because i said "Its fine" means to you that they never need to update it? wow your grasphing. i could under stand if i said "its perfect" but i did not. i said its fine. yes all those additions would be great but if i can find EVERYSINGLE thing im looking for them the system works dude....


The system needs a lot more work before it is "fine". Furthermore, I'm not sure what a "grasphing" is, and I don't have one.

I also never said it didn't work; I said it needs a lot more work done to it before it is "fine". It is currently "tolerable".

dnored wrote:
TO BE CLEAR
The market wards works as of the last update. Can it use updates? YES is it perfect? NO. but stop acting like its so bad that you can not use it i mean **** you people who are rank 15 prolly used it once or twice and if you do use it i bet you find things fast and easy (like everyone esle) because its an easy system to use. (now TO BE CLEAR) is it the easiest system on the planet to use? NO but neither was the AH. but its does not make shopping horrid like it was when it first came out. you can find what you are looking for then the system works. SE updated the wards every single update they released so expect more to come but it will add things not a complete overhaul because what they have works fine.

sh*t i was for the AH intill the last update.. i dont need a new system that no one esle has because its not needed. what is need is a system where i can sell and find goods and they have one that works fine.


By your logic ("if it works, then it's fine"), a car that is rusty, spews smoke, is missing a door, and has a huge crack in the windshield is "fine", just so long as it still "works", right? Doesn't matter how many problems it has, doesn't matter how it looks, doesn't matter how much improvement it needs, just so long as the car can start and drive, then the car is "fine", and just so long as you can locate goods, then the market system is "fine"? If you honestly believe that "it works" is -all- that something needs to be "fine" then all I can say is that you have a really low bar in terms of expectations of a product.


i thought a lot about how i was gonna insult you because your first line is an insult on me. however i will not. i will say this. this is the last post i post to you because if you have to fall to insults then you are a child that can not understand people view things different then you.

Have a nice life...
#26 Feb 09 2011 at 5:26 PM Rating: Good
**
923 posts
Quote:
Ok if you are quoting from me then what i said stands.

Again can you find EVERYthing you need? answer yes = system is fine (now i know u write walls of text and you seem to assume everything so let me make this clear)
Fine= no need for a complete overhaul to the system but updates are very welcome. (second time i said that)

If i said the system is fine but needs updates then that means i contradicted myself? do you know what that means? Just because i said "Its fine" means to you that they never need to update it? wow your grasphing. i could under stand if i said "its perfect" but i did not. i said its fine. yes all those additions would be great but if i can find EVERYSINGLE thing im looking for them the system works dude....

TO BE CLEAR
The market wards works as of the last update. Can it use updates? YES is it perfect? NO. but stop acting like its so bad that you can not use it i mean **** you people who are rank 15 prolly used it once or twice and if you do use it i bet you find things fast and easy (like everyone esle) because its an easy system to use. (now TO BE CLEAR) is it the easiest system on the planet to use? NO but neither was the AH. but its does not make shopping horrid like it was when it first came out. you can find what you are looking for then the system works. SE updated the wards every single update they released so expect more to come but it will add things not a complete overhaul because what they have works fine.

sh*t i was for the AH intill the last update.. i dont need a new system that no one esle has because its not needed. what is need is a system where i can sell and find goods and they have one that works fine.



Don't be surprised that people are calling you out on your first post, you made it sound like the system in place is more than adequate. Having to walk over to retainers to pick up items, is something we should just get over. as you put it.

The fact remains, buying a variation of items or large quantities of an item takes much longer than it should, this is my main issue with it right now.

Edited, Feb 9th 2011 6:27pm by samosamo
#27 Feb 09 2011 at 5:30 PM Rating: Excellent
***
1,313 posts
Vedis wrote:
1) people dont care about an AH anymore with the new system, and those that do, its cuz its not called an auction house
2)there are mobs that give great SP for partying rather then solo, look into it


I'll call it an auction house when I can purchase what I need from the search window without having to load into different rooms and run around the overpopulated retainers. Wards are still inconvenient and now make absolutely no sense other than to hold our items which our mog house did just fine.
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#28 Feb 09 2011 at 5:34 PM Rating: Good
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219 posts
I just want to fly.

Every MMORPG out there include flying now, why can't i fly?
#29 Feb 09 2011 at 5:36 PM Rating: Excellent
***
1,313 posts
wrongfeifong wrote:
I just want to fly.

Every MMORPG out there include flying now, why can't i fly?
[quote=wrongfeifong]

I think eventually we'll have airships, maybe even company airships. I don't see us flying on dragons or hippogryphs at any point though. Sorry Fong :(
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#30 Feb 09 2011 at 6:04 PM Rating: Default
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86 posts
samosamo wrote:
Quote:
Ok if you are quoting from me then what i said stands.

Again can you find EVERYthing you need? answer yes = system is fine (now i know u write walls of text and you seem to assume everything so let me make this clear)
Fine= no need for a complete overhaul to the system but updates are very welcome. (second time i said that)

If i said the system is fine but needs updates then that means i contradicted myself? do you know what that means? Just because i said "Its fine" means to you that they never need to update it? wow your grasphing. i could under stand if i said "its perfect" but i did not. i said its fine. yes all those additions would be great but if i can find EVERYSINGLE thing im looking for them the system works dude....

TO BE CLEAR
The market wards works as of the last update. Can it use updates? YES is it perfect? NO. but stop acting like its so bad that you can not use it i mean **** you people who are rank 15 prolly used it once or twice and if you do use it i bet you find things fast and easy (like everyone esle) because its an easy system to use. (now TO BE CLEAR) is it the easiest system on the planet to use? NO but neither was the AH. but its does not make shopping horrid like it was when it first came out. you can find what you are looking for then the system works. SE updated the wards every single update they released so expect more to come but it will add things not a complete overhaul because what they have works fine.

sh*t i was for the AH intill the last update.. i dont need a new system that no one esle has because its not needed. what is need is a system where i can sell and find goods and they have one that works fine.



Don't be surprised that people are calling you out on your first post, you made it sound like the system in place is more than adequate. Having to walk over to retainers to pick up items, is something we should just get over. as you put it.

The fact remains, buying a variation of items or large quantities of an item takes much longer than it should, this is my main issue with it right now.

Edited, Feb 9th 2011 6:27pm by samosamo


Im not surprised at all about people ********* I am surprised that people are STILL ******** about the system. Before yea it was horrid. now? you will spend no more then 5 mins no matter what you need to buy or how much. I guess im a simple guy. if need to buy something and i have a search function and a marked retainer .....im good.

that is more then adequate IMO. With future updates it will be easier just like the last and the one before that. Now just because it works does that mean i do not think theres things they need to work on? NO (for the 15th time) but come on people everyone can find what they need in a more then reasonable amount of time. Before the search it could take hours. with it? mins.

Thanks for coming at me with ideas and not insults or making up fake "logics" that i never said or meant.

Edited, Feb 9th 2011 7:07pm by dnored

Edited, Feb 9th 2011 7:11pm by dnored
#31 Feb 09 2011 at 6:30 PM Rating: Excellent
**
923 posts
Quote:

Im not surprised at all about people ********* I am surprised that people are STILL ******** about the system. Before yea it was horrid. now? you will spend no more then 5 mins no matter what you need to buy or how much. I guess im a simple guy. if need to buy something and i have a search function and a marked retainer .....im good.

that is more then adequate IMO. With future updates it will be easier just like the last and the one before that. Now just because it works does that mean i do not think theres things they need to work on? NO (for the 15th time) but come on people everyone can find what they need in a more then reasonable amount of time. Before the search it could take hours. with it? mins.

Thanks for coming at me with ideas and not insults or making up fake "logics" that i never said or meant.


I said don't be surprised that people are calling YOU out over your initial post. Here's your example shopping list

3 types of feathers all more than come in a stack
a couple of types of buckles
2 types of leathers

So that means I would start at an arbitrary ward let's say cloth:
search for one feather type, find starred retainer that has a stack maybe two
change search to other feather grab those
change search to last feather grab those, maybe one of the retainers has both types so you don't have to keep looking but maybe not.

Go to tanners ward
search for one type of leather, find retainer, grab it
change search to other leather, find retainer, grab

Go to whichever ward sells brass buckles I forgot:
Search for brass buckles, find retainer and grab
change search to next buckle, find and repeat

Can you see what we're talking about here? You may have small shopping lists so to speak but some of us don't, the one I provided is pretty small. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on the matter, but don't invalidate ours by telling us we're not allowed to be dissatisfied, I'm very happy with the changes that have been made overall, more remain. If it doesn't bother you, no problem but in this particular case I can't approve of the system entirely.
#32 Feb 09 2011 at 6:47 PM Rating: Excellent
*****
11,539 posts
dnored wrote:
i thought a lot about how i was gonna insult you because your first line is an insult on me. however i will not. i will say this. this is the last post i post to you because if you have to fall to insults then you are a child that can not understand people view things different then you.

Have a nice life...


My first line is an observation on the fact that your method of writing is more difficult to read than it would be if you would proofread your post before clicking the "Post Message" button.

I don't -have- to fall to insults, but when I'm faced with the fact that you don't seem to proofread before posting, I just felt the need to call you on it.

I can understand you view things differently. I can't, however, understand why you are complacent with mediocrity, both in the quality of your writing and the quality of the market system. If you're just the type of person to whom "close enough" is "fine", then I never will understand it either.

dnored wrote:
Im not surprised at all about people ********* I am surprised that people are STILL ******** about the system. Before yea it was horrid. now? you will spend no more then 5 mins no matter what you need to buy or how much. I guess im a simple guy. if need to buy something and i have a search function and a marked retainer .....im good.

that is more then adequate IMO. With future updates it will be easier just like the last and the one before that. Now just because it works does that mean i do not think theres things they need to work on? NO (for the 15th time) but come on people everyone can find what they need in a more then reasonable amount of time. Before the search it could take hours. with it? mins.

Thanks for coming at me with ideas and not insults or making up fake "logics" that i never said or meant.


I do understand why you are surprised that people are "still *************** It is implied and stated by you that you are complacent with the current system, whereas many people would disagree with you and believe (and rightly so) that while it has improved, it is still a work in progress. You seem to be under the impression that so long as "it works", that it is "fine", regardless of how many faults it has. With an outlook like that, I would say that I am equally surprised that you honestly think the system is "fine".

The logic that the system is "better than it was", in spite of the fact that it is "not as good as it could be" does not make it "fine". The logic that "Well, it works" in spite of the fact that "It has a number of flaws still" does not make it "fine".

Furthermore, I opened with not one, but -seven- "ideas" (not insults) and your first reply was to say that you had no idea what I was talking about, and to claim that these suggestions for improvement could already be done (they can't).

So yeah, I get that YOU are complacent with a system that is tolerable,and that YOU think it is "fine". It is not. It still needs improvement, yes? We both agree on that fact, right? The only difference between what I'm saying and what you're saying is that whereas we both agree that the system could use improvement, I am trying to explain why the system will eventually NEED improvement before it is "fine", whereas you think that a mediocre system is "fine" and that any improvements would be "nice".

I'm sorry I hurt your feelings by pointing out that your posts are difficult to read. Now would you kindly explain to me why you think that a system that "needs improvement" is a system that is "fine", and more importantly why DESPITE the fact that the system is in need of improvement (and I have cited several examples, all of which you ignored), you think that -everyone- needs to "stop *************** simply because YOU think it's copasetic?

Edited, Feb 9th 2011 7:49pm by Mikhalia
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#33 Feb 09 2011 at 7:01 PM Rating: Good
22 posts
all i got say is time sinks and grind nothing more fun then waste what little time u got
#34 Feb 09 2011 at 7:05 PM Rating: Excellent
***
3,530 posts
Metin wrote:
I personally dont just want the same experience from other mmos. I want something better or even just different, I want SE to come up with something interesting and new.


You got lots of things that were "just different;" even Yoshida seemed to be surprised why they were done that way. Being different is pointless if the differences are negative. That said, I think that you should want something better, not just anything at all.
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#35 Feb 09 2011 at 7:19 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
KaneKitty wrote:
Metin wrote:
I personally dont just want the same experience from other mmos. I want something better or even just different, I want SE to come up with something interesting and new.


You got lots of things that were "just different;" even Yoshida seemed to be surprised why they were done that way. Being different is pointless if the differences are negative. That said, I think that you should want something better, not just anything at all.


Yeah, that was the biggest problem that faced the game, courtesy of Tanaka's team. They set out to make FFXIV as different as they could, without regards to practicality or feasibility. The team threw the concept of sanity testing to the wind and just went with making the game as different as possible in every conceivable way, with the exclusion of racial appearance. And even there, they gave five races which looked almost exactly the same COMPLETELY different names for no other reason than to be different.

Square wheels on a car are different.

Constructing a house out of cardboard is different.

Giving your child an actual gun instead of a toy gun is different.

Installing a record player onto a motorcycle is different.

Greeting someone for the first time by grabbing their *** instead of shaking their hand is different.

Different does not always mean better. Different can sometimes be worse. Different can even have the potential for disastrous consequences.

Now I'm not saying the game needs to try to just carbon copy other games either. It shouldn't just take what FFXI has or what any other MMORPG has and call it a day because "it works for them, so it works for us". This is a bad idea too.

What people really need to do is set aside different and similar and start asking "How can we make it BETTER?" Not different. Not the same. Better.

Without regard to similar or different, if a feature is indisputably better, then there really isn't much logic against it. Finding $5 is better than finding $1. A 9 oz. steak is better than a 6 oz steak (assuming price, quality, etc are equal).

It seems like for any given suggestion or for any given idea that has ever been suggested on these boards, 3/4 of the people who are against the idea are nearly always against it for little more reason beyond "Well some other game has something like that so I don't want it."

People really need to stop being so focused on how we can make the game unlike anything else (or like something else) and be more focused on how we can make the game -better-.
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#36 Feb 09 2011 at 7:39 PM Rating: Good
**
291 posts
Dizmo wrote:
Metin wrote:
I personally dont just want the same experience from other mmos. I want something better or even just different, I want SE to come up with something interesting and new.

I have mentionned in other threads that this comes back to a difference in culture. Japanese dont subscribe to the 'if it aint broke dont fix it' mentality. Ingrained in their culture is the desire to do things better, even if they are working well they will try and do better in every area. Sometimes this leads to something seemingly not being as good at first but the constant improvement mentality will mean we end up with something better than what we would if we simply left alone what 'aint broke'

How did you come up with this?


Would recommend you look at The Toyota Way by Jeffrey Liker as well as any number of academic case studies taught in business schools that use Japanese firms as examples (see Harvard Business Review or other b-school publications). Then compare these case studies to Korean, US, Latin American, Russian, European case studies. There are clear examples of corporate culture in Japan being different from other countries. I'm not sure I would have phrased it exactly as Metin does, but the businesses in Japan often (not always) have vigorously embraced continuous improvement principals throughout all levels of the company. While in graduate school I toured a number of Japanese manufacturing facilities, Chinese manufacturing facilities, and US facilities. In Japan they lived and breathed continuous improvement in their plants. In the US, a few truly embraced it, but most just paid lip service to it.

However, continuous improvement methodologies also have their flaws. While you usually see incremental steps toward an improved product, you do not often see radical new groundbreaking designs coming from the same companies that follow continuous improvement methods.
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#37 Feb 09 2011 at 7:50 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
NayliaMR wrote:
Dizmo wrote:
Metin wrote:
I personally dont just want the same experience from other mmos. I want something better or even just different, I want SE to come up with something interesting and new.

I have mentionned in other threads that this comes back to a difference in culture. Japanese dont subscribe to the 'if it aint broke dont fix it' mentality. Ingrained in their culture is the desire to do things better, even if they are working well they will try and do better in every area. Sometimes this leads to something seemingly not being as good at first but the constant improvement mentality will mean we end up with something better than what we would if we simply left alone what 'aint broke'

How did you come up with this?


Would recommend you look at The Toyota Way by Jeffrey Liker as well as any number of academic case studies taught in business schools that use Japanese firms as examples (see Harvard Business Review or other b-school publications). Then compare these case studies to Korean, US, Latin American, Russian, European case studies. There are clear examples of corporate culture in Japan being different from other countries. I'm not sure I would have phrased it exactly as Metin does, but the businesses in Japan often (not always) have vigorously embraced continuous improvement principals throughout all levels of the company. While in graduate school I toured a number of Japanese manufacturing facilities, Chinese manufacturing facilities, and US facilities. In Japan they lived and breathed continuous improvement in their plants. In the US, a few truly embraced it, but most just paid lip service to it.

However, continuous improvement methodologies also have their flaws. While you usually see incremental steps toward an improved product, you do not often see radical new groundbreaking designs coming from the same companies that follow continuous improvement methods.


While I can't speak to the accuracy of the post (which I will take at face value since I have no reason to disbelieve it), it's extremely insightful if true.

It does, however, beg the question of how FFXIV ended up being so many steps behind FFXI in so many aspects of the game at launch if we are to believe that Square Enix follows the same belief and value set of "consistent, steady progress". As I've said, much of XIV's failure can be chalked up to the attempts to make the game different for the sake of being different, but if we are to believe that Japanese corporate culture heavily promotes the idea of slowly marching forward with incremental progress at all times, the notion that a newer product could be so far behind an existing one is even more baffling.

At any rate, I can attest that since release, XIV has followed the path of "slow but steady progress", both under the hands of Tanaka and under the hands of Yoshida.
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#38 Feb 09 2011 at 7:57 PM Rating: Good
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The one, most obvious, item that I agree with the OP on is the player search functionality. It was in ffxi. So while it might not be a simple as cut and paste, they are clearly withholding it for some reason.
#39 Feb 09 2011 at 8:35 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
Mithsavvy wrote:
The one, most obvious, item that I agree with the OP on is the player search functionality. It was in ffxi. So while it might not be a simple as cut and paste, they are clearly withholding it for some reason.


I didn't catch where the OP said that, but I'm in agreement that the lack of /sea is a bummer.

Edited, Feb 9th 2011 9:35pm by Mikhalia
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#40 Feb 10 2011 at 4:12 AM Rating: Excellent
*
130 posts
neo12 wrote:
i am new to final fantasy.
This game indeed is different than other (and i like it this way), its the few rare mmo that allow me to play with my controller.
Its hard to start with but after learning how this work, its amazing the potencial this game have.

I have find some "dungeons" where mobs are harder to kill and require a party, the exp is great.
Pll may not know them yet i think, or just a few does, yet, remember this game is new


Right on the spot in my opinion! +1

Now about the wards and the discussion around it. It is much better than it used to be, I'm even using them now :P. It is not 'faster' than an AH but it serves its purpose now. I actually like that when I search for an item I am actually looking for, I can also find other items I wouldn't have thought about looking for on the said retainer. I'm then thinking about trying to find that said item cheaper with the search function. I, however still think that the retainer system is just a complement to a future AH (some areas are already designed for that) and will only serve the purpose of the 'Rolanberry bazaar area' in the long run.
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yfaithfully wrote:
To add to those, if you can get this DeLorean up to 88 MPH, you'll be able to play this game in 2019 when they've finally implemented mounts.

#41 Feb 10 2011 at 12:25 PM Rating: Default
*
86 posts
samosamo wrote:
Quote:

Im not surprised at all about people ********* I am surprised that people are STILL ******** about the system. Before yea it was horrid. now? you will spend no more then 5 mins no matter what you need to buy or how much. I guess im a simple guy. if need to buy something and i have a search function and a marked retainer .....im good.

that is more then adequate IMO. With future updates it will be easier just like the last and the one before that. Now just because it works does that mean i do not think theres things they need to work on? NO (for the 15th time) but come on people everyone can find what they need in a more then reasonable amount of time. Before the search it could take hours. with it? mins.

Thanks for coming at me with ideas and not insults or making up fake "logics" that i never said or meant.


I said don't be surprised that people are calling YOU out over your initial post. Here's your example shopping list

3 types of feathers all more than come in a stack
a couple of types of buckles
2 types of leathers

So that means I would start at an arbitrary ward let's say cloth:
search for one feather type, find starred retainer that has a stack maybe two
change search to other feather grab those
change search to last feather grab those, maybe one of the retainers has both types so you don't have to keep looking but maybe not.

Go to tanners ward
search for one type of leather, find retainer, grab it
change search to other leather, find retainer, grab

Go to whichever ward sells brass buckles I forgot:
Search for brass buckles, find retainer and grab
change search to next buckle, find and repeat

Can you see what we're talking about here? You may have small shopping lists so to speak but some of us don't, the one I provided is pretty small. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on the matter, but don't invalidate ours by telling us we're not allowed to be dissatisfied, I'm very happy with the changes that have been made overall, more remain. If it doesn't bother you, no problem but in this particular case I can't approve of the system entirely.


Again all you are doing is runnig. in an AH you would still have 2 look through different tabs to find items because the fact is there are different types of items.

I know what you are saying and im ok with an AH all im saying is that this is not a broken system right now and it does not need an overhaul. All you are asking is to not run to another retainer. If that is the ONLY problem then the system is fine.
#42 Feb 10 2011 at 12:28 PM Rating: Default
*
86 posts
Carmillia wrote:
neo12 wrote:
i am new to final fantasy.
This game indeed is different than other (and i like it this way), its the few rare mmo that allow me to play with my controller.
Its hard to start with but after learning how this work, its amazing the potencial this game have.

I have find some "dungeons" where mobs are harder to kill and require a party, the exp is great.
Pll may not know them yet i think, or just a few does, yet, remember this game is new


Right on the spot in my opinion! +1

Now about the wards and the discussion around it. It is much better than it used to be, I'm even using them now :P. It is not 'faster' than an AH but it serves its purpose now. I actually like that when I search for an item I am actually looking for, I can also find other items I wouldn't have thought about looking for on the said retainer. I'm then thinking about trying to find that said item cheaper with the search function. I, however still think that the retainer system is just a complement to a future AH (some areas are already designed for that) and will only serve the purpose of the 'Rolanberry bazaar area' in the long run.


Thank you great post this is all im saying. this system serves its purpose.
#43 Feb 10 2011 at 12:55 PM Rating: Good
*
112 posts
jefant wrote:
all i got say is time sinks and grind nothing more fun then waste what little time u got



i agree, i am done holding my breath for this game. i still have hopes but from now on will be only reading about it and not playing anymore, i have spent enough of my time hoping and its been way to long for the game to still be were it is. hopefully i am wrong but unless they do something quick people are going to move on to other things.
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#44 Feb 10 2011 at 1:20 PM Rating: Good
Sage
*
139 posts
Carmillia wrote:
I actually like that when I search for an item I am actually looking for, I can also find other items I wouldn't have thought about looking for on the said retainer. I'm then thinking about trying to find that said item cheaper with the search function. I, however still think that the retainer system is just a complement to a future AH (some areas are already designed for that) and will only serve the purpose of the 'Rolanberry bazaar area' in the long run.


This is the number 1 reason why I like the market ward idea more than a traditional auction house. I am not sure if it is because I am actually female in real life and I do love to shop, but I enjoy browsing retainers when I go to find my crystals or whatever it was I needed to pick up. Just like in real life when I go to buy milk, I usually bring a few more things home. Sure the market ward system isn't perfect yet, but I like where it is going.
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#45 Feb 10 2011 at 1:46 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
Rekia wrote:
Carmillia wrote:
I actually like that when I search for an item I am actually looking for, I can also find other items I wouldn't have thought about looking for on the said retainer. I'm then thinking about trying to find that said item cheaper with the search function. I, however still think that the retainer system is just a complement to a future AH (some areas are already designed for that) and will only serve the purpose of the 'Rolanberry bazaar area' in the long run.


This is the number 1 reason why I like the market ward idea more than a traditional auction house. I am not sure if it is because I am actually female in real life and I do love to shop, but I enjoy browsing retainers when I go to find my crystals or whatever it was I needed to pick up. Just like in real life when I go to buy milk, I usually bring a few more things home. Sure the market ward system isn't perfect yet, but I like where it is going.


So, as I suggested several posts ago, why not add the OPTION to buy directly from the search window? That way if you just want to buy what you need and get on with your life, you can, and if you'd rather go into the wards and shop around, you can do that too?

I don't see why the systems have to be mutually exclusive.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#46 Feb 10 2011 at 1:50 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
dnored wrote:
Carmillia wrote:
Now about the wards and the discussion around it. It is much better than it used to be, I'm even using them now :P. It is not 'faster' than an AH but it serves its purpose now. I actually like that when I search for an item I am actually looking for, I can also find other items I wouldn't have thought about looking for on the said retainer. I'm then thinking about trying to find that said item cheaper with the search function. I, however still think that the retainer system is just a complement to a future AH (some areas are already designed for that) and will only serve the purpose of the 'Rolanberry bazaar area' in the long run.


Thank you great post this is all im saying. this system serves its purpose.


You only partially repeated the part you quoted, leaving off the word "now". There's a huge difference between "It's fine" and "It's fine for now" that you seem to be consistently overlooking.

Is it "fine for now"? Maybe. Is it "fine"? No. It's only "fine for now" while they focus on more important things, and they can come back and fix the problems with it later.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#47 Feb 10 2011 at 2:34 PM Rating: Decent
**
923 posts
dnored wrote:
samosamo wrote:
Quote:

Im not surprised at all about people ********* I am surprised that people are STILL ******** about the system. Before yea it was horrid. now? you will spend no more then 5 mins no matter what you need to buy or how much. I guess im a simple guy. if need to buy something and i have a search function and a marked retainer .....im good.

that is more then adequate IMO. With future updates it will be easier just like the last and the one before that. Now just because it works does that mean i do not think theres things they need to work on? NO (for the 15th time) but come on people everyone can find what they need in a more then reasonable amount of time. Before the search it could take hours. with it? mins.

Thanks for coming at me with ideas and not insults or making up fake "logics" that i never said or meant.


I said don't be surprised that people are calling YOU out over your initial post. Here's your example shopping list

3 types of feathers all more than come in a stack
a couple of types of buckles
2 types of leathers

So that means I would start at an arbitrary ward let's say cloth:
search for one feather type, find starred retainer that has a stack maybe two
change search to other feather grab those
change search to last feather grab those, maybe one of the retainers has both types so you don't have to keep looking but maybe not.

Go to tanners ward
search for one type of leather, find retainer, grab it
change search to other leather, find retainer, grab

Go to whichever ward sells brass buckles I forgot:
Search for brass buckles, find retainer and grab
change search to next buckle, find and repeat

Can you see what we're talking about here? You may have small shopping lists so to speak but some of us don't, the one I provided is pretty small. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on the matter, but don't invalidate ours by telling us we're not allowed to be dissatisfied, I'm very happy with the changes that have been made overall, more remain. If it doesn't bother you, no problem but in this particular case I can't approve of the system entirely.


Again all you are doing is runnig. in an AH you would still have 2 look through different tabs to find items because the fact is there are different types of items.

I know what you are saying and im ok with an AH all im saying is that this is not a broken system right now and it does not need an overhaul. All you are asking is to not run to another retainer. If that is the ONLY problem then the system is fine.


What is this I don't...even.......*head explodes*
#48 Feb 10 2011 at 2:57 PM Rating: Decent
Sage
*
139 posts
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Rekia wrote:
Carmillia wrote:
I actually like that when I search for an item I am actually looking for, I can also find other items I wouldn't have thought about looking for on the said retainer. I'm then thinking about trying to find that said item cheaper with the search function. I, however still think that the retainer system is just a complement to a future AH (some areas are already designed for that) and will only serve the purpose of the 'Rolanberry bazaar area' in the long run.


This is the number 1 reason why I like the market ward idea more than a traditional auction house. I am not sure if it is because I am actually female in real life and I do love to shop, but I enjoy browsing retainers when I go to find my crystals or whatever it was I needed to pick up. Just like in real life when I go to buy milk, I usually bring a few more things home. Sure the market ward system isn't perfect yet, but I like where it is going.


So, as I suggested several posts ago, why not add the OPTION to buy directly from the search window? That way if you just want to buy what you need and get on with your life, you can, and if you'd rather go into the wards and shop around, you can do that too?

I don't see why the systems have to be mutually exclusive.


Have you ever played a game with a fast travel option. Like Oblivion for example? The game is beautiful and I love walking around the wilderness exploring, but once I gain the ability to fast travel, why walk there? People wouldn't walk around the wards if there is an easier way. Even people who like it... it's just human nature.

I supposed I wouldn't be totally against the idea, if they made it so your retainer went and grabbed the stuff for you or something. Maybe you could use the search feature to queue up multiple items and then be like "retainer go fetch" and he gets the stuff and mails it to you and then goes back to bazaaring for you. At least then it still keeps some of the lore.

I just don't want another boring dead auction house window to stare at. At least they can make it a little interesting.
____________________________

#49 Feb 10 2011 at 3:08 PM Rating: Excellent
**
800 posts
Rekia wrote:
I just don't want another boring dead auction house window to stare at. At least they can make it a little interesting.


I agree with this. I know the wards need a lot of work, but I'm willing to be patient with SE in the hopes that they develop something so much better than any AH. I'm still hoping we can set our retainer to seek any tradable item (not just items we currently have in our inventory). Looking for a piece of armor but none are for sale? Put up a seek flag for it on your retainer, offer gil, and someone may make one for you. That feature alone would make the wards so much better than any AH I've ever seen. What really irks me is that we're 95% of the way there already. We can seek items via our retainers, and we have an item search feature. They just need to be combined!
#50 Feb 10 2011 at 3:18 PM Rating: Default
*
86 posts
samosamo wrote:
dnored wrote:
samosamo wrote:
Quote:

Im not surprised at all about people ********* I am surprised that people are STILL ******** about the system. Before yea it was horrid. now? you will spend no more then 5 mins no matter what you need to buy or how much. I guess im a simple guy. if need to buy something and i have a search function and a marked retainer .....im good.

that is more then adequate IMO. With future updates it will be easier just like the last and the one before that. Now just because it works does that mean i do not think theres things they need to work on? NO (for the 15th time) but come on people everyone can find what they need in a more then reasonable amount of time. Before the search it could take hours. with it? mins.

Thanks for coming at me with ideas and not insults or making up fake "logics" that i never said or meant.


I said don't be surprised that people are calling YOU out over your initial post. Here's your example shopping list

3 types of feathers all more than come in a stack
a couple of types of buckles
2 types of leathers

So that means I would start at an arbitrary ward let's say cloth:
search for one feather type, find starred retainer that has a stack maybe two
change search to other feather grab those
change search to last feather grab those, maybe one of the retainers has both types so you don't have to keep looking but maybe not.

Go to tanners ward
search for one type of leather, find retainer, grab it
change search to other leather, find retainer, grab

Go to whichever ward sells brass buckles I forgot:
Search for brass buckles, find retainer and grab
change search to next buckle, find and repeat

Can you see what we're talking about here? You may have small shopping lists so to speak but some of us don't, the one I provided is pretty small. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on the matter, but don't invalidate ours by telling us we're not allowed to be dissatisfied, I'm very happy with the changes that have been made overall, more remain. If it doesn't bother you, no problem but in this particular case I can't approve of the system entirely.


Again all you are doing is runnig. in an AH you would still have 2 look through different tabs to find items because the fact is there are different types of items.

I know what you are saying and im ok with an AH all im saying is that this is not a broken system right now and it does not need an overhaul. All you are asking is to not run to another retainer. If that is the ONLY problem then the system is fine.


What is this I don't...even.......*head explodes*


my thoughts exactly. it amazes me that this system is so bad that people's heads explode. All you have to do is look for an item JUST LIKE AN AH and then go to it... its so simple my head explodes twice. we Will have to agree to disagree on this.

Sorry about your head.

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 4:20pm by dnored
#51 Feb 10 2011 at 3:29 PM Rating: Good
Sage
*
139 posts
Hydragyrum wrote:
Rekia wrote:
I just don't want another boring dead auction house window to stare at. At least they can make it a little interesting.


I agree with this. I know the wards need a lot of work, but I'm willing to be patient with SE in the hopes that they develop something so much better than any AH. I'm still hoping we can set our retainer to seek any tradable item (not just items we currently have in our inventory). Looking for a piece of armor but none are for sale? Put up a seek flag for it on your retainer, offer gil, and someone may make one for you. That feature alone would make the wards so much better than any AH I've ever seen. What really irks me is that we're 95% of the way there already. We can seek items via our retainers, and we have an item search feature. They just need to be combined!


I completely agree with this. Giving the retainers (or even players) the ability to have a "Seeking item" flag would help crafters know what to craft. Maybe similar to item repair, except with a search function like buying an item. Crafters can see what is offered and see if it is worth it to do it for profit or just to help the person out. As it stands, there is no way to know if making a bunch of hempen robes will be useful to anyone or if you'll just end up vendoring them all.
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