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#52 Feb 10 2011 at 3:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Stuff


I see what you did there, and I think I will have to leave it at that cause I'm running circles and woo I'm getting tired.
#53 Feb 10 2011 at 3:31 PM Rating: Decent
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I thought it was agreed upon that even though both systems are the same basically with the wards lacking the buy from search option that even when said option exists people will still complain until it's officially called an Auction House?

Honestly I thought the whole "Me wantie AH" died when the wards got their latest update.
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#54 Feb 10 2011 at 3:39 PM Rating: Default
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Mistress Theonehio wrote:
I thought it was agreed upon that even though both systems are the same basically with the wards lacking the buy from search option that even when said option exists people will still complain until it's officially called an Auction House?

Honestly I thought the whole "Me wantie AH" died when the wards got their latest update.



wait a min hold the phone!!!!!
You are telling me there is a function that shows you EXACTLY where any and all items that people are selling and you are surprised that the whole "we need a AH" is still not dead? WOW /s

on a serious note that sounds a little like what i been saying all along. boy im tired is so right.....

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 4:40pm by dnored

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 4:41pm by dnored
#55 Feb 10 2011 at 3:43 PM Rating: Decent
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923 posts
dnored wrote:
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
I thought it was agreed upon that even though both systems are the same basically with the wards lacking the buy from search option that even when said option exists people will still complain until it's officially called an Auction House?

Honestly I thought the whole "Me wantie AH" died when the wards got their latest update.



wait a min hold the phone!!!!!
You are telling me there is a function that shows you EXACTLY where any and all items that people are selling and you are surprised that the whole "we need a AH" is still not dead? WOW /s

on a serious note that sounds a little like what i been saying all along. boy im tired is so right.....

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 4:40pm by dnored

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 4:41pm by dnored


http://lolpics.se/pics/482.jpg
#56 Feb 10 2011 at 3:45 PM Rating: Default
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86 posts
samosamo wrote:
dnored wrote:
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
I thought it was agreed upon that even though both systems are the same basically with the wards lacking the buy from search option that even when said option exists people will still complain until it's officially called an Auction House?

Honestly I thought the whole "Me wantie AH" died when the wards got their latest update.



wait a min hold the phone!!!!!
You are telling me there is a function that shows you EXACTLY where any and all items that people are selling and you are surprised that the whole "we need a AH" is still not dead? WOW /s

on a serious note that sounds a little like what i been saying all along. boy im tired is so right.....

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 4:40pm by dnored

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 4:41pm by dnored


http://lolpics.se/pics/482.jpg


so when someone tries to make my same point i get a faceplam? LOL nice. you debate really well lol.
#57 Feb 10 2011 at 3:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Metin wrote:
I have mentionned in other threads that this comes back to a difference in culture. Japanese dont subscribe to the 'if it aint broke dont fix it' mentality. Ingrained in their culture is the desire to do things better, even if they are working well they will try and do better in every area. Sometimes this leads to something seemingly not being as good at first but the constant improvement mentality will mean we end up with something better than what we would if we simply left alone what 'aint broke'


False. If anything, that's their industry's whole problem. In fact, Square's own CTO said as much in an interview last November:

Julien Merceron wrote:
Japanese pipelines "tend to have data that are very static, complex tools, long iteration time," because the teams are "not really revisiting their approach to content creation. So that has given a birth to a lot of pipelines that are really slow, and are not as real-time as they could be."


Anyways, please continue your discussion.

Edit:
scrish wrote:
just for one pair of boots your looking at about 100+ lines of code


This statement nearly gave me a stroke, it was that stupid. Never talk about game development again.

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 4:58pm by Quanta
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#58 Feb 10 2011 at 3:59 PM Rating: Decent
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dnored wrote:
samosamo wrote:
dnored wrote:
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
I thought it was agreed upon that even though both systems are the same basically with the wards lacking the buy from search option that even when said option exists people will still complain until it's officially called an Auction House?

Honestly I thought the whole "Me wantie AH" died when the wards got their latest update.



wait a min hold the phone!!!!!
You are telling me there is a function that shows you EXACTLY where any and all items that people are selling and you are surprised that the whole "we need a AH" is still not dead? WOW /s

on a serious note that sounds a little like what i been saying all along. boy im tired is so right.....

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 4:40pm by dnored

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 4:41pm by dnored


http://lolpics.se/pics/482.jpg


so when someone tries to make my same point i get a faceplam? LOL nice. you debate really well lol.


I Really do have to leave it at this, the facepalm pic is supposed to help illustrate the fact that no matter how valid or well thought out our counter arguments are, you choose to ignore them completely and continue to dance around the issue. I accepted your viewpoint and offered mine yet you refuse to consider what I and others have written for even half a second so there's no point in trying to explain it further it's an impenetrable wall, hence the facepalm.
#59 Feb 10 2011 at 4:06 PM Rating: Good
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11,539 posts
Rekia wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Rekia wrote:
Carmillia wrote:
I actually like that when I search for an item I am actually looking for, I can also find other items I wouldn't have thought about looking for on the said retainer. I'm then thinking about trying to find that said item cheaper with the search function. I, however still think that the retainer system is just a complement to a future AH (some areas are already designed for that) and will only serve the purpose of the 'Rolanberry bazaar area' in the long run.


This is the number 1 reason why I like the market ward idea more than a traditional auction house. I am not sure if it is because I am actually female in real life and I do love to shop, but I enjoy browsing retainers when I go to find my crystals or whatever it was I needed to pick up. Just like in real life when I go to buy milk, I usually bring a few more things home. Sure the market ward system isn't perfect yet, but I like where it is going.


So, as I suggested several posts ago, why not add the OPTION to buy directly from the search window? That way if you just want to buy what you need and get on with your life, you can, and if you'd rather go into the wards and shop around, you can do that too?

I don't see why the systems have to be mutually exclusive.


Have you ever played a game with a fast travel option. Like Oblivion for example? The game is beautiful and I love walking around the wilderness exploring, but once I gain the ability to fast travel, why walk there? People wouldn't walk around the wards if there is an easier way. Even people who like it... it's just human nature.

I supposed I wouldn't be totally against the idea, if they made it so your retainer went and grabbed the stuff for you or something. Maybe you could use the search feature to queue up multiple items and then be like "retainer go fetch" and he gets the stuff and mails it to you and then goes back to bazaaring for you. At least then it still keeps some of the lore.

I just don't want another boring dead auction house window to stare at. At least they can make it a little interesting.



Just throwing this out there: I don't always use fast travel in Elder Scrolls or Fallout games. Sometimes I fast travel if I'm in a hurry and other times I have no problem hoofing it from Leyawin to Bruma. That's why I said leave the physical wards in as an option for the people who want them and leave the option to buy from the search window for people who don't. When you see an item, let the person decide if they want to start the retainers or buy.

The problem I have with the idea you're employing is that you're making people who just want to get in and get out do more work than they should need to, just because you like doing it.

I mean, if you like walking into the wards and shopping around, then I agree that you should have that option. But it's unfair to people who just want to buy what they want and leave that this is the ONLY option available. Similarly, I'm not saying they should only have the buy from interface option either. Let people decide how they want to buy, rather than forcing everyone to buy in the same way, or trying to incorporate extra, unnecessary steps (e.g. "retainer go fetch") that do nothing but complicate what should be a simple process.

Back to the fast travel example, you say "the game is beautiful and I love walking around the wilderness exploring, but once I gain the ability to fast travel, why walk there?" If we take this at face value, this implies that the actual walking is in fact an inconvenience (after all, people like convenient things; few people are going to do something inconvenient unless the benefit outweighs the inconvenience). If that's the case, then this pretty much concedes that walking to retainers is, in fact, inconvenient. Furthermore, ask yourself how many people who have played games with fast travel options would have given up on them if they actually had to hoof it from town to town whenever they wanted to go anywhere. By giving people the OPTION to skip something that is an unneeded time sink if they want to (fast travel, buy from search UI, etc), you're opening up your game to people who just want to enjoy the game without being hindered by hurdles that they don't like.

So I'm not saying that they should just boil it down to an AH and remove the retainers entirely; leave them there and let the people who want to shop around do so. But it's not right to force EVERYONE to do it that way when you could give them the option of removing an unneeded time sink.
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#60 Feb 10 2011 at 4:12 PM Rating: Decent
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86 posts
samosamo wrote:
dnored wrote:
samosamo wrote:
dnored wrote:
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
I thought it was agreed upon that even though both systems are the same basically with the wards lacking the buy from search option that even when said option exists people will still complain until it's officially called an Auction House?

Honestly I thought the whole "Me wantie AH" died when the wards got their latest update.



wait a min hold the phone!!!!!
You are telling me there is a function that shows you EXACTLY where any and all items that people are selling and you are surprised that the whole "we need a AH" is still not dead? WOW /s

on a serious note that sounds a little like what i been saying all along. boy im tired is so right.....

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 4:40pm by dnored

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 4:41pm by dnored


http://lolpics.se/pics/482.jpg


so when someone tries to make my same point i get a faceplam? LOL nice. you debate really well lol.


I Really do have to leave it at this, the facepalm pic is supposed to help illustrate the fact that no matter how valid or well thought out our counter arguments are, you choose to ignore them completely and continue to dance around the issue. I accepted your viewpoint and offered mine yet you refuse to consider what I and others have written for even half a second so there's no point in trying to explain it further it's an impenetrable wall, hence the facepalm.


*Bangs head on desk*

i have metioned 100 times this system is not perfect. i have also metioned i would not be mad if they add an AH. This means i have said plenty of times "hey you are right" (not in those words of course) HOWEVER, you have not ONE TIME said "Hey you are right also the system in place IS NOT BAD BECAUSE I CAN FIND WHAT I AM LOOKING FOR" (which was my whole point). if you want quotes of me saying this then scroll up

YOU sir are the impenetrable wall and that faceplam is for you. BTW plenty of people have said the system is fine also in this very thread .

I may be stubborn to you because i can do what i need to do and thats buy/sell items with little effort and thats fine but you are WAY more stubborn because you think the system in place is horrid and it is not.

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 5:13pm by dnored
#61 Feb 10 2011 at 4:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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11,539 posts
samosamo wrote:
dnored wrote:
samosamo wrote:
dnored wrote:
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
I thought it was agreed upon that even though both systems are the same basically with the wards lacking the buy from search option that even when said option exists people will still complain until it's officially called an Auction House?

Honestly I thought the whole "Me wantie AH" died when the wards got their latest update.



wait a min hold the phone!!!!!
You are telling me there is a function that shows you EXACTLY where any and all items that people are selling and you are surprised that the whole "we need a AH" is still not dead? WOW /s

on a serious note that sounds a little like what i been saying all along. boy im tired is so right.....

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 4:40pm by dnored

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 4:41pm by dnored


http://lolpics.se/pics/482.jpg


so when someone tries to make my same point i get a faceplam? LOL nice. you debate really well lol.


I Really do have to leave it at this, the facepalm pic is supposed to help illustrate the fact that no matter how valid or well thought out our counter arguments are, you choose to ignore them completely and continue to dance around the issue. I accepted your viewpoint and offered mine yet you refuse to consider what I and others have written for even half a second so there's no point in trying to explain it further it's an impenetrable wall, hence the facepalm.


I could have told you several posts ago that dnored ignores anything he can't argue against, and takes anything ambivalent to be in his favor, regardless of the context. I'm pretty sure the chances of explaining ANYTHING AT ALL to him is pretty nil, given the amount of times I've tried and the fact that he still isn't getting it. No matter how much evidence he's faced with, he appears to casually discard anything he doesn't like to hear, all the while insisting that a system is "fine", in spite of numerous flaws that have been pointed out to him and summarily dismissed.

It's like arguing with confirmation bias incarnate, but to extremes never before thought possible.
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Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#62 Feb 10 2011 at 4:17 PM Rating: Good
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923 posts
Quote:

I could have told you several posts ago that dnored ignores anything he can't argue against, and takes anything ambivalent to be in his favor, regardless of the context. I'm pretty sure the chances of explaining ANYTHING AT ALL to him is pretty nil, given the amount of times I've tried and the fact that he still isn't getting it. No matter how much evidence he's faced with, he appears to casually discard anything he doesn't like to hear, all the while insisting that a system is "fine", in spite of numerous flaws that have been pointed out to him and summarily dismissed.

It's like arguing with confirmation bias incarnate, but to extremes never before thought possible.


It's shifts from frightening to comical in ways that hurt my soul
#63 Feb 10 2011 at 4:18 PM Rating: Good
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11,539 posts
dnored wrote:
samosamo wrote:
dnored wrote:
samosamo wrote:
dnored wrote:
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
I thought it was agreed upon that even though both systems are the same basically with the wards lacking the buy from search option that even when said option exists people will still complain until it's officially called an Auction House?

Honestly I thought the whole "Me wantie AH" died when the wards got their latest update.



wait a min hold the phone!!!!!
You are telling me there is a function that shows you EXACTLY where any and all items that people are selling and you are surprised that the whole "we need a AH" is still not dead? WOW /s

on a serious note that sounds a little like what i been saying all along. boy im tired is so right.....

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 4:40pm by dnored

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 4:41pm by dnored


http://lolpics.se/pics/482.jpg


so when someone tries to make my same point i get a faceplam? LOL nice. you debate really well lol.


I Really do have to leave it at this, the facepalm pic is supposed to help illustrate the fact that no matter how valid or well thought out our counter arguments are, you choose to ignore them completely and continue to dance around the issue. I accepted your viewpoint and offered mine yet you refuse to consider what I and others have written for even half a second so there's no point in trying to explain it further it's an impenetrable wall, hence the facepalm.


*Bangs head on desk*

i have metioned 100 times this system is not perfect. i have also metioned i would not be mad if they add an AH. This means i have said plenty of times "hey you are right" (not in those words of course) HOWEVER, you have not ONE TIME said "Hey you are right also the system in place IS NOT BAD BECAUSE I CAN FIND WHAT I AM LOOKING FOR" (which was my whole point). if you want quotes of me saying this then scroll up

YOU sir are the impenetrable wall and that faceplam is for you. BTW plenty of people have said the system is fine also in this very thread .

I may be stubborn to you because i can do what i need to do and thats buy/sell items with little effort and thats fine but you are WAY more stubborn because you think the system in place is horrid and it is not.

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 5:13pm by dnored


People aren't saying that "the system [...] is not bad" because the system is flawed.

"The system is not perfect" is the truth. You're right on that point. You stop being right when you insist that it is fine.

Furthermore, many many more people think the system needs improvement than that the system is fine. The people who think the system is fine are a minority, and as I said in my last post, you are employing gratuitous amounts of confirmation bias to make your points.

You're not stubborn because "i can do what i need to do" [sic], you're stubborn because despite being faced with a mountain of flaws, you continually insist that the system is "fine" for no reasons beyond the fact that you like it better than FFXI, and the fact that it has improved.

In the face of feature after feature after feature that has been listed to you that the system could benefit from, in spite of all of the problems with it, all you say is "Well, yeah it needs work, but it's fine!". That is why you are stubborn and why no one will ever get this point through to you; you are simply not willing to consider the possibility that you are wrong.
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Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
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#64 Feb 10 2011 at 4:24 PM Rating: Default
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samosamo wrote:
Quote:

I could have told you several posts ago that dnored ignores anything he can't argue against, and takes anything ambivalent to be in his favor, regardless of the context. I'm pretty sure the chances of explaining ANYTHING AT ALL to him is pretty nil, given the amount of times I've tried and the fact that he still isn't getting it. No matter how much evidence he's faced with, he appears to casually discard anything he doesn't like to hear, all the while insisting that a system is "fine", in spite of numerous flaws that have been pointed out to him and summarily dismissed.

It's like arguing with confirmation bias incarnate, but to extremes never before thought possible.


It's shifts from frightening to comical in ways that hurt my soul


SO all the people who agree with me in this thread are crazy but you two (one who is so trollish that he will never get a post from me at LEAST into he is rank 20 on ANYTHING) are not?

Understood. thanks im done.
#65 Feb 10 2011 at 4:34 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Just throwing this out there: I don't always use fast travel in Elder Scrolls or Fallout games. Sometimes I fast travel if I'm in a hurry and other times I have no problem hoofing it from Leyawin to Bruma. That's why I said leave the physical wards in as an option for the people who want them and leave the option to buy from the search window for people who don't. When you see an item, let the person decide if they want to start the retainers or buy.

The problem I have with the idea you're employing is that you're making people who just want to get in and get out do more work than they should need to, just because you like doing it.

I mean, if you like walking into the wards and shopping around, then I agree that you should have that option. But it's unfair to people who just want to buy what they want and leave that this is the ONLY option available. Similarly, I'm not saying they should only have the buy from interface option either. Let people decide how they want to buy, rather than forcing everyone to buy in the same way, or trying to incorporate extra, unnecessary steps (e.g. "retainer go fetch") that do nothing but complicate what should be a simple process.

Back to the fast travel example, you say "the game is beautiful and I love walking around the wilderness exploring, but once I gain the ability to fast travel, why walk there?" If we take this at face value, this implies that the actual walking is in fact an inconvenience (after all, people like convenient things; few people are going to do something inconvenient unless the benefit outweighs the inconvenience). If that's the case, then this pretty much concedes that walking to retainers is, in fact, inconvenient. Furthermore, ask yourself how many people who have played games with fast travel options would have given up on them if they actually had to hoof it from town to town whenever they wanted to go anywhere. By giving people the OPTION to skip something that is an unneeded time sink if they want to (fast travel, buy from search UI, etc), you're opening up your game to people who just want to enjoy the game without being hindered by hurdles that they don't like.

So I'm not saying that they should just boil it down to an AH and remove the retainers entirely; leave them there and let the people who want to shop around do so. But it's not right to force EVERYONE to do it that way when you could give them the option of removing an unneeded time sink.


I don't always fast travel either, but the fact is that I usually do. It makes the game feel smaller and less like a grand adventure. It's the little things, that might not be super convenient, and some people might think are a waste of time, that really make a game have atmosphere.

I don't really see a difference between clicking "retainer go fetch this item for me" than "buy now" and it appears in your mail box, besides the fact that one is a little more fun, a little more atmospheric.

Quote:
Furthermore, ask yourself how many people who have played games with fast travel options would have given up on them if they actually had to hoof it from town to town whenever they wanted to go anywhere.


Also to this part I just wanted to say that I know a lot of people who preferred the system of travel in Morrowind over Oblivion because it made the world feel larger and more mysterious. Who knows what you will encounter while you walk to the next town? There was actually a player made mod for Oblivion that removed the fast travel ability. Unfortunately that game was made with fast travel in mind, so there was very little to find while traveling between cities.

This game was made with the market wards in mind and not an auction house. I think it's a good system, it needs work, but it's a nice change from what every single other game out there has.

I don't think walking to the retainers is inconvenient at all, you are trying to put words in my mouth. BUT as a human being, I would most likely take the path of least resistance if there were two paths to take. I do not think that walking to the fridge to get a drink is inconvenient, it actually had never occurred to me before, but if I had a cold drink closer, which one would I probably grab?
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#66 Feb 10 2011 at 4:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Rekia wrote:
I completely agree with this. Giving the retainers (or even players) the ability to have a "Seeking item" flag would help crafters know what to craft. Maybe similar to item repair, except with a search function like buying an item. Crafters can see what is offered and see if it is worth it to do it for profit or just to help the person out. As it stands, there is no way to know if making a bunch of hempen robes will be useful to anyone or if you'll just end up vendoring them all.


This is Brialliant! Post this in the feedback forum or something.

A "Seeking Item" icon would actually make the Wards superior to an AH. I could go to the wards, see what items people are seeking for (easily because of the icon) and then craft them!

Further, a Seeking Item search window would be an innovation that would really change the face of the economy in FFXIV. You can't pull this off with an AH, but with retainers it could be a real hit.
#67 Feb 10 2011 at 4:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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11,539 posts
dnored wrote:
samosamo wrote:
Quote:

I could have told you several posts ago that dnored ignores anything he can't argue against, and takes anything ambivalent to be in his favor, regardless of the context. I'm pretty sure the chances of explaining ANYTHING AT ALL to him is pretty nil, given the amount of times I've tried and the fact that he still isn't getting it. No matter how much evidence he's faced with, he appears to casually discard anything he doesn't like to hear, all the while insisting that a system is "fine", in spite of numerous flaws that have been pointed out to him and summarily dismissed.

It's like arguing with confirmation bias incarnate, but to extremes never before thought possible.


It's shifts from frightening to comical in ways that hurt my soul


SO all the people who agree with me in this thread are crazy but you two (one who is so trollish that he will never get a post from me at LEAST into he is rank 20 on ANYTHING) are not?

Understood. thanks im done.


There are more than two people who disagree with you. That's exactly your problem: You only hear the people who agree with you and you willfully disregard everything that counters what you are saying. If you honestly thought the system was fine, you'd be explaining why the system does not, in fact, need ANY of the improvements I have suggested. Instead, you are just doing the forum equivalent of "LALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" because you can't argue with me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning_kruger_effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_Bias

Read. Learn.

I'm going to address each of your points, one by one:

"The system is fine because it is better than FFXIs since you can sell 20 items instead of 7" <- Okay, 20 is better than 7. But infinite is better than 7. A limit on how many items you can sell is still a negative feature. The system will not be "fine" until it is removed.

"The system is fine because I can find what I need" <- Okay, you can find what you need, but if the system were BETTER, you could find and purchase what you need in an easier, more efficient manner. You can eventually get from California to New York on bike, but if you asked me how to get from CA to NY and I said "A bike is fine", I would be insane. It is a good thing that you can find what you need, but ANY market system should have this as a base feature. "I can find what I need" for a market system ranks up there with "The computer turns on" and "the CD spins when I put it in". That's what is SUPPOSED to happen. It is a basic assumption of usability, not a feature.

"The system is fine because it used to be bad but now it is not" <- The system used to be much worse. It has gotten better. It is not fine -yet-. The mere act of instilling basic functionality into a system that should have had it from the beginning does not make the system "fine". A cell phone that does nothing but make calls is not "fine". A computer that does nothing but power on is not "fine". The system has improved to the point that it is operating on a very basic level. It allows people to buy and sell goods in a semi-reasonable period of time, in a clunky manner. It is now effectively in beta. With improvement, it shall one day be "fine", but that day is not today.

That is how a proper debate works. You make points, I counter them. Now it's your turn to either counter my points if you are able to, or (more likely) ignore me outright if you can't.

I'm anticipating the latter, but I'm hoping you'll take the time to read the articles I linked you and perhaps come back with a counterargument or some sort.

EDIT: And I don't get that "rank 20" thing. If you honestly think I'm going to get 5 levels on a game I do not currently enjoy just so that you will take your fingers out of your ears and maybe listen, you're mistaken. I'll wait till the game is more fun and THEN I will level up. Even if I did appease you with leveling to rank 20, I'm pretty sure you'd still be as hardheaded as you are now, and I'd just have wasted my time leveling up and not having fun. Why would I want to put myself through something I don't enjoy for no reward whatsoever?

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 5:55pm by Mikhalia
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[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#68 Feb 10 2011 at 4:51 PM Rating: Good
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11,539 posts
Rekia wrote:
I don't always fast travel either, but the fact is that I usually do. It makes the game feel smaller and less like a grand adventure. It's the little things, that might not be super convenient, and some people might think are a waste of time, that really make a game have atmosphere.

I don't really see a difference between clicking "retainer go fetch this item for me" than "buy now" and it appears in your mail box, besides the fact that one is a little more fun, a little more atmospheric.


So long as I click one button and the item is now in my inventory, what the button says is irrelevant to me :)

And you could always force yourself to not fast travel. Try playing the game through without fast traveling at all if you want to feel more immersed. I've done it before.

Rekia wrote:
Quote:
Furthermore, ask yourself how many people who have played games with fast travel options would have given up on them if they actually had to hoof it from town to town whenever they wanted to go anywhere.


Also to this part I just wanted to say that I know a lot of people who preferred the system of travel in Morrowind over Oblivion because it made the world feel larger and more mysterious. Who knows what you will encounter while you walk to the next town? There was actually a player made mod for Oblivion that removed the fast travel ability. Unfortunately that game was made with fast travel in mind, so there was very little to find while traveling between cities.

This game was made with the market wards in mind and not an auction house. I think it's a good system, it needs work, but it's a nice change from what every single other game out there has.

I don't think walking to the retainers is inconvenient at all, you are trying to put words in my mouth. BUT as a human being, I would most likely take the path of least resistance if there were two paths to take. I do not think that walking to the fridge to get a drink is inconvenient, it actually had never occurred to me before, but if I had a cold drink closer, which one would I probably grab?


See, you didn't even need a mod to remove fast travel; that's just silly. If you don't want to use it, just don't use it. No part of the game actually forces you to use it.

The current system is tolerable, but it still has a lot of unnecessary hurdles to it that need to be overcome. I'm not saying scrap the whole thing and start over, but if they'd just add:

- The option to buy and sell from the interface
- The option to search by item name (by typing the name in rather than a tree view) or by stats or whatnot
- Notifications when sales are made

Then it would be great. In fact, I'll go one further and tell you how they could make the system much better than any other system out there, hands down:

- Add the ability to put up "Want to buy" listings, and let the sellers browse those. Let's say you have a sword and want to get rid of it; rather than listing it and waiting for it to sell, search to see if anyone wants to buy it. Oh, three people are trying to buy that item because none are on AH right now. I'll just click one of their names and BAM! That guy bought my weapon!

Add in a feature as powerful as that and watch people talk about how awesome the system is.

(Edit: Rufus beat me to the suggestion, but I totally agree with him; you can't do that with an AH but the current system is set up to allow it and if they added it, it would make the wards better than an AH)

You're right that humans do tend to prefer the path of least resistance in most cases, however the solution to this should not be to FORCE them to do more work than they should need to do to accomplish something.

You wouldn't see an actual store where you had to solve a puzzle before the cashier rang you up. You wouldn't see a market for hand crank cars. You wouldn't see an MP3 player that requires you to manually type in the name of the artist and the name of the song to listen to it... There's just no good reason to make everyone perform some trivial, irrelevant, pointless task to accomplish what they want to do.

So I'm not against leaving the wards in, and you're probably right that people would tend toward buying from the interface, but if buying from the interface is what people want to do, why not let them do it? Why intentionally make everyone perform extra work on every single transaction, all because some people think it "Adds immersion"?

Let the people who want the immersion be immersed and go into the wards. I'm fine with that. But you shouldn't have the game make -everyone- do more work than they need to.

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 5:52pm by Mikhalia
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Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
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