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FFXIV gives me a strong feeling of weightlessness. Follow

#1 Feb 10 2011 at 8:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not one for long posts. So if i'm curt i apologize.
A lot of the skills and equipment have a strong feeling of unimportance. I understand this is in large part due to having limited content. The interesting thing is the skills elude themselves to having extended applications. In the equipments case the high randomness of numbers and the lack of a challenge make it difficult to asses their value. The skills in FFXI had a lot of weight mostly because there weren't that many but you knew once you got them they'd be a game changer.

I think most wayward complains find their way to this issue. And i think when people cry out for content they're really asking for justification for the skills and equipment they've been gathering.

SE can address all the petty issues like auction houses, party exp, grind distraction quests, or chocobo's. I doubt it'll remedy the lack of design driven value that made its predecessor such a rich experience.

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 9:42am by KenJammin
#2 Feb 10 2011 at 9:22 AM Rating: Good
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Interesting Observation that gets at one of the core problem.

Some people believe that the weightlessness of the battles is due to poor spell effects and reused animation. I believe that they are wrong. In FFXI, all the information was conveyed very crisp and clean and easy to read. And everything is in sync with each other for the most part. IN FFXIV we have the problem with things getting hard to read so when an attack does a lot of damage, there are a lot of other things that are very distracting, and hard to read. The introduction of the new battle text has helped this a lot, but it doesn't help when the monster's bar drops when you were trying to activate an ability.

A lot fo the weightlessness also comes from one of the game's primary design. The economy in this game should be a fantastic game to play, the problem is that the chips that you play it with are severely devalued. Gil in this game does not weigh a thousand pounds like it did in FFXI and it has made the thrill of making a profit, very stale.

I hope that we can look to clarity in the future of the game, and i think that is the way that we can feel heavy again.
#3 Feb 10 2011 at 9:36 AM Rating: Excellent
35 posts
I completely agree. I remember how excited I would get for every new ability in XI but now I get a new ability and wonder if I am even going to use it.
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#4 Feb 10 2011 at 9:46 AM Rating: Good
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I don't know about weightlessness, but I do space out a lot when crafting. XD
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#5 Feb 10 2011 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good
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i think you are on to something here that will be hard for SE to really fix anytime soon. the core mechanics of the game seem to just be off, healers can just spam aoe heals for the same mp as single target heals same with magic dmg spells. any debuffs seem useless since everything dies so fast. and now the party exp is better "maybe to high" but it promotes partys of 15 people on maps that do not have enough mobs to keep an organized party, running around killing 1 thing at a time with 15 people is crazy. i dont have any high rank classes really but from what ive sen it seems either the mobs die very fast or hit so hard they 1-2 shot tanks, i have not seen very much in between. im starting to think they almost just need to take down the servers and remake the game and use the existing product keys for the next game and let us download it for free. it sucks since there isnt any good games out or coming out anytime soon but in the end i feel this is just going to take to long for people to stick around for a great game like we all want. i do not know anything about SE's finances but i cant imagine they can keep running this game with no income for anything more than a few months and i dont see it being a game enough people will pay for by then to keep them going.
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#6 Feb 10 2011 at 9:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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I absolutely agree with this. Part of the problem is the lack of rank requirements for gear etc. The other issue is the mixing of classes, while I appreciate the idea, and accept that it has some promise, I still maintain that the melting pot that we currently have makes dedication to a certain profession difficult.

I also think that the addition of more gear that is diffucult to obtain, has rare/ex status etc, will add more to the draw of the game, although this will likely come with content.

Fundamentally though, the excitement that I and many others felt during playing FFXI is not present. However, I don't know whether to attribute this the the game itself, the nature of the market, or the nature of the player. For me, I often come t the conclusion that the reason I don't feel the dedication and draw like I did with FFXI is down to the fact that FFXI was my first MMO experience and that primary discovery of a new and monumental world with real people cannot be replicated.
#7 Feb 10 2011 at 10:03 AM Rating: Good
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Yep.

A lot of people have been saying that the over abundance of skills and freedom given to players to make their own path is cool, but lacks definition.

With most things people either want to be told, or extremely guided. People love Apple products because they are, what they are. The challenge then comes from breaking those rules i.e. Jailbreaking or making Hackintoshes. I'd say this is FFXI.

And in another analogy PCs are the same. For the basic user Windows is pretty straightforward, but dig a little deeper and Windows is a powerful tool. WoW w/ add-ons... :P

I guess if I stick with the analogy FFXIV would be like an older version of Linux. Completely free to do what you want but way too open ended and confusing for most people.
#8 Feb 10 2011 at 10:25 AM Rating: Good
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Filters wrote:
Fundamentally though, the excitement that I and many others felt during playing FFXI is not present. However, I don't know whether to attribute this the the game itself, the nature of the market, or the nature of the player. For me, I often come t the conclusion that the reason I don't feel the dedication and draw like I did with FFXI is down to the fact that FFXI was my first MMO experience and that primary discovery of a new and monumental world with real people cannot be replicated.


I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I've played MMOs for years. Ever since I was 16 and first tried Everquest back in the day. I've played most major MMOs and even some minor ones (Champions Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online). I've been trying to think why none of them have ever held my attention the same way Everquest, FFXI and WoW did. Of course no game will ever hold the same magic that Everquest did at first. I actually learned how to type from playing that game, trying to communicated with other players. The game had so much downtime that you had nothing better to do than talk to your party, and that was, at the time, exactly what we wanted from the game.

What do today's MMO players want from a game? To level fast and do end game content? I spent years playing EQ before I ever got a character to max level, even with playing all summer long with my friends. I think most MMO players who have drifted around from one MMO to the next like I have are done with the quest grinding all by yourself to level. Or joining a random group of strangers that you will never see again from other servers to do a dungeon. I think a lot of us are looking for the old experience to come back, to group with a party of people, to see them again and get to know them. I was hoping this game would deliver, and I haven't given up hope yet.

I don't want them to add a bunch of quests like WoW or its various clones. I already tried that. If I wanted to play a beautiful game with a rich environment that is essentially nothing more than a WoW clone, I'd go play LOTRO. I want a game that is different. I am afraid that all the people asking for adding an auction house or quests to grind exp are trying to recreate this type of game, but I also don't think that is what the market needs right now. It is flooded with this already. The market needs something new, the nature of the player has changed and what we demand from an MMO has changed.
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#9 Feb 10 2011 at 10:40 AM Rating: Good
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<Hmmm.> <That's interesting.> Good thread.

Weightlessness is a very interesting way to describe the current state of FFXIV. I can relate to the feeling that every action taken in-game is relatively inconsequential. There's a huge imbalance between risk and reward in game...and the more I think about it, there really aren't any great rewards available and there really isn't any challenging content that constitutes a risk (because the consequences of failure just aren't that bad).

Frito hit in on the head...you are either steam-rolling mobs and making it rain SP or your entire party is getting one-shot wiped when a mobs special ability fires off. It's way too easy or way too hard. You can do it with your eyes closed, or you don't have a snowballs chance in ****. Neither is really that much fun. I have yet to find that sweet spot in FFXIV: challenging skill-based content with a reward that is worth the associated risk.

I'm sad to say that the most excitement I get out of the game in it's current state is when I pull off a "rapid synth" to make a huge come back and successfully craft something. And that's not a skill based challenge: it's a RNG and I'm gambling against the odds.

I think SE tried to blur the lines between defined class roles (Tank, Healer, DD, cc, support, etc.) thinking that people would create their own unique hybrid classes or extremely specialized classes, but what has actually happened is that people either hit stuff or heal stuff in a party. In trying to depart from MMO norms, they have actually taken a step backwards in party mechanics. I'm not sure if it's a result of insignificant abilities or a result of bad content that doesn't really test us, or some combination of both, but it definitely feels weightless as the OP suggested.
#10 Feb 10 2011 at 10:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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"Farmvillers" can rate me down all you want.

In XI you're NEVER just given anything.

Everything your character owns is earned.

The design team has wasted massive amounts of rewards by making the skill gains automatic. There will never be quests to receive even the most useful spells like Raise or Holy. There will never be a quest to gain a map to a previously maze-like area.

There's another sad thread here where people discuss whether or not SE should give xp for quests. This is a horrible idea probably just born out of the fact that there's not that much else to give.


Now I'm busy doing a leve where I've died 4 times already. In XI this kind of situation would be catastrophic and cause me to form an elaborate plan to complete this leve but in XIV I just don't care. Dying is meaningless as well. The gil and gear reward are next to meaningless =(


#11 Feb 10 2011 at 10:54 AM Rating: Good
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Basically...SE needs to trim the fat on the combat system, make the game harder for the individual and party, and add depth and difficulty to the world through a wide range of quests and a more advanced story-line.

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#12 Feb 10 2011 at 11:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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seiferdincht wrote:
"Farmvillers" can rate me down all you want.

In XI you're NEVER just given anything.

Everything your character owns is earned.

The design team has wasted massive amounts of rewards by making the skill gains automatic. There will never be quests to receive even the most useful spells like Raise or Holy. There will never be a quest to gain a map to a previously maze-like area.

There's another sad thread here where people discuss whether or not SE should give xp for quests. This is a horrible idea probably just born out of the fact that there's not that much else to give.


Now I'm busy doing a leve where I've died 4 times already. In XI this kind of situation would be catastrophic and cause me to form an elaborate plan to complete this leve but in XIV I just don't care. Dying is meaningless as well. The gil and gear reward are next to meaningless =(
This.
It's a simple truth that there really isn't anything to work towards.

Somehow, playing FFXIV feels like cheating. I'm sure most of you experienced this feeling when you played a game you liked, then you used a cheat to become invincible for example. And suddenly that game that you liked so much got boring and you lost interest because there was no challenge anymore.
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#13 Feb 10 2011 at 11:44 AM Rating: Good
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zhinse wrote:
In FFXI, by the time we recieved the game 6 months after original release all the information was conveyed very crisp and clean and easy to read. And everything is in sync with each other for the most part.


Did you even play FFXI at NA release? Or mabye a year or two later?

I understand the point people are trying to make in this thread. I also think if Rank 21 is your highest level you might want to reconsider asking for the game to be harder.

I really don't want FFXIV to be FFXI. I want it to be FFXIV. I don't think all gil and gear in FFXIV pointless. Maybe all YOUR gear and gil is. Do you have a Goblin Longsword yet? Thought not.

50 is the current Cap, but it won't be forever. You might find that the game changing equipment simply hasn't been released yet. You don't get every cool thing that other established MMO have spents years and multiple expansions building up to on a MMO release disc.

I have made a number of comments and had some pretty strong opinions that just turn out to be completely wrong as I progressed further into the game. When you reach Rank 50 re-read your posts here and see if you haven't changed your mind a bit.
#14 Feb 10 2011 at 11:54 AM Rating: Good
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RidingBean wrote:
seiferdincht wrote:
"Farmvillers" can rate me down all you want.

In XI you're NEVER just given anything.

Everything your character owns is earned.

The design team has wasted massive amounts of rewards by making the skill gains automatic. There will never be quests to receive even the most useful spells like Raise or Holy. There will never be a quest to gain a map to a previously maze-like area.

There's another sad thread here where people discuss whether or not SE should give xp for quests. This is a horrible idea probably just born out of the fact that there's not that much else to give.


Now I'm busy doing a leve where I've died 4 times already. In XI this kind of situation would be catastrophic and cause me to form an elaborate plan to complete this leve but in XIV I just don't care. Dying is meaningless as well. The gil and gear reward are next to meaningless =(
This.
It's a simple truth that there really isn't anything to work towards.

Somehow, playing FFXIV feels like cheating. I'm sure most of you experienced this feeling when you played a game you liked, then you used a cheat to become invincible for example. And suddenly that game that you liked so much got boring and you lost interest because there was no challenge anymore.


I feel it is like cheating too, whenever i get bored and start modding a game or use cheat codes i know its time to find a new game.

FFXI was like crack, I would think about it always, I couldnt wait to get home from work to play. I would stay up until 2am playing, wake up at 6 to play more.
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#15 Feb 10 2011 at 11:59 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
A lot of the skills and equipment have a strong feeling of unimportance


I agree with the OP, but I'm just going to hone in on this one point, because its probably the biggest reason I lost interest in FFXIV. I found with gear especially, that there weren't really options, you were up to date or not. When it comes to weapons, it seems you either have the optimal level weapon or you don't. Some pieces like chests (especially), and helm/leggings seemed to have more options and trade offs, do I want something with dex/MP, STR/DEX, HP/MP etc, but for other pieces like gloves, wrists, feet I felt I was just trying to get something at my optimal rank. I felt jewelery was also pretty limited, but at least there were options as to pick what you would wear.

Similarly with abilities earned. I found that after branching to more than a few classes, even at early levels I was getting mostly slight variations on other abilities I currently had, and not changing my bars often at all.


I guess its kinda a moot point really. Yes the game hasn't been out that long so there isn't much variety (similar to FFXI), but then I think its not 2002 anymore and they should have addressed this before release etc, it doesn't really matter anymore, as hopefully they are working to improve it.
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#16 Feb 10 2011 at 12:25 PM Rating: Default
10 posts
Seems like another ffxiv vs other mmos thread to me. I like the game and I definitely feel weighted. Levling is not suppose to be difficult. It definitely was not in FFXI. XIV's leveling system to me is a healthy compromise between Solid Grinds and Questing Galore. I think the system plays well. I don't wanna find a tank then a healer then dd then run to a camp have someone pull kill the mob then rinse and repeat. I also don't wanna to run for hours around appeasing people who think crazy boars are eating their crops. And anyone who says WoW's quest stories were interested your lying. No one reads that **** after like the 30th one. Sure there are other ways to get xp in these games... Now. People didn't always run instances in WoW and XI didn't always have besieged or the new WoTG thing. The game is stil new. Giv it some time. I'm not saying the game is perfect, it's far from it. But it is different and to be honest everytime I get a new skill I am excited. I find a lot of the skills useful. Some aren't, yes but it's better than using the same **** weaponskill 1000 times over and making the same skillchain just as much.

Sorry if this us hard to read. Writing from my phone lol.
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#17 Feb 10 2011 at 12:34 PM Rating: Decent
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KujaKoF wrote:
Quote:
A lot of the skills and equipment have a strong feeling of unimportance


I agree with the OP, but I'm just going to hone in on this one point, because its probably the biggest reason I lost interest in FFXIV. I found with gear especially, that there weren't really options, you were up to date or not. When it comes to weapons, it seems you either have the optimal level weapon or you don't. Some pieces like chests (especially), and helm/leggings seemed to have more options and trade offs, do I want something with dex/MP, STR/DEX, HP/MP etc, but for other pieces like gloves, wrists, feet I felt I was just trying to get something at my optimal rank. I felt jewelery was also pretty limited, but at least there were options as to pick what you would wear.


I just wanted to say that I quit FFXI around late 2004 (according to my last forum post about the game anyway) and at that time, there was literally only one set of gear a person would get. I vaguely remember it being called "AF gear" or something like that (artifact gear, maybe?). If you were a white mage, you wore the exact same thing as every other white mage and you had the exact same staff. It took me so long to get the money for that stupid staff, but I was considered kind of a gimp healer without it.

Most MMOs I've ever played were the same way. Even in WoW, there's always your latest and greatest tier set you need to get to look exactly like everyone else of your class. I don't think that is a reason to judge this game harshly.

I realize some of my posts might come off as blind fan girl fanaticism, but I assure you, I was just as disappointed in this game as anyone, I just have a lot of hope for it still. And everyone is so negative all the time, there needs to be more positive! :P
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#18 Feb 10 2011 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
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RufuSwho wrote:
zhinse wrote:
In FFXI, by the time we recieved the game 6 months after original release all the information was conveyed very crisp and clean and easy to read. And everything is in sync with each other for the most part.


Did you even play FFXI at NA release? Or mabye a year or two later?

I understand the point people are trying to make in this thread. I also think if Rank 21 is your highest level you might want to reconsider asking for the game to be harder.

I really don't want FFXIV to be FFXI. I want it to be FFXIV. I don't think all gil and gear in FFXIV pointless. Maybe all YOUR gear and gil is. Do you have a Goblin Longsword yet? Thought not.

50 is the current Cap, but it won't be forever. You might find that the game changing equipment simply hasn't been released yet. You don't get every cool thing that other established MMO have spents years and multiple expansions building up to on a MMO release disc.

I have made a number of comments and had some pretty strong opinions that just turn out to be completely wrong as I progressed further into the game. When you reach Rank 50 re-read your posts here and see if you haven't changed your mind a bit.


wow quote of the year. You should win a prize....
I 100% agree. people who are low level and most of the ones saying stff like this.
#19 Feb 10 2011 at 1:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Achievement's shouldn't be waited for 6 months or seen only at r50 **** getting past rank 3 missions in XI for the first time was a great achievement as was getting your firs spell upgrade by buying it after saving enough money.

I didn't think XI got that much better after getting to higher levels or an advanced job. Getting my character to lvl 16 was already fun and incredibly compelling.


I'm waiting for some content now and that's fine but it IS completely valid to compare XI to XIV because even though it has seen many years of tweaks and additions the core mechanics are still pretty much the same.

I don't want XIV to be XI either as we already have that game. I was just pointing out some things that bring this weightlessness in XIV.

Quite frankly SE has to come up with pretty unique ways to reward the player after all the stuff they are giving for free. SP simply isn't going to cut it as gaining more sp in XIV is more of an eventuality than something awarded for skill.

#20 Feb 10 2011 at 1:21 PM Rating: Good
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146 posts
KujaKoF wrote:
Quote:
A lot of the skills and equipment have a strong feeling of unimportance


I agree with the OP, but I'm just going to hone in on this one point, because its probably the biggest reason I lost interest in FFXIV. I found with gear especially, that there weren't really options, you were up to date or not. When it comes to weapons, it seems you either have the optimal level weapon or you don't. Some pieces like chests (especially), and helm/leggings seemed to have more options and trade offs, do I want something with dex/MP, STR/DEX, HP/MP etc, but for other pieces like gloves, wrists, feet I felt I was just trying to get something at my optimal rank. I felt jewelery was also pretty limited, but at least there were options as to pick what you would wear.

Similarly with abilities earned. I found that after branching to more than a few classes, even at early levels I was getting mostly slight variations on other abilities I currently had, and not changing my bars often at all.


I guess its kinda a moot point really. Yes the game hasn't been out that long so there isn't much variety (similar to FFXI), but then I think its not 2002 anymore and they should have addressed this before release etc, it doesn't really matter anymore, as hopefully they are working to improve it.


I agree and I feel the same to some point, but honestly, what special piece of gear or challenging content did we have in XI before lvl mid40?

There was a lot of content that low level would leach on others to unlock, like storyline missions or advanced classes, but there was not a lot of content for lower level people.

Now that is not an excuse for XIV to have no low level content, I'm just trying to put things into perspective
#21 Feb 10 2011 at 1:30 PM Rating: Good
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seiferdincht wrote:
Achievement's shouldn't be waited for 6 months or seen only at r50 **** getting past rank 3 missions in XI for the first time was a great achievement as was getting your firs spell upgrade by buying it after saving enough money.

I didn't think XI got that much better after getting to higher levels or an advanced job. Getting my character to lvl 16 was already fun and incredibly compelling.


I'm waiting for some content now and that's fine but it IS completely valid to compare XI to XIV because even though it has seen many years of tweaks and additions the core mechanics are still pretty much the same.

I don't want XIV to be XI either as we already have that game. I was just pointing out some things that bring this weightlessness in XIV.

Quite frankly SE has to come up with pretty unique ways to reward the player after all the stuff they are giving for free. SP simply isn't going to cut it as gaining more sp in XIV is more of an eventuality than something awarded for skill.



Unlocking the ability to use support job was a huge achievement for me. It opened tons of new possibilities and gave great incentive to level up multiple jobs.

Right now we can do even more than that in XIV starting at rank 4 without unlocking anything. I forgot this point in my previous post, but still, other than that and the 2-3 storyline mission, there was not much left until 40s and gear choice was very limited.
#22 Feb 10 2011 at 1:30 PM Rating: Decent
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KenJammin wrote:
I'm not one for long posts. So if i'm curt i apologize.
A lot of the skills and equipment have a strong feeling of unimportance. I understand this is in large part due to having limited content. The interesting thing is the skills elude themselves to having extended applications. In the equipments case the high randomness of numbers and the lack of a challenge make it difficult to asses their value. The skills in FFXI had a lot of weight mostly because there weren't that many but you knew once you got them they'd be a game changer.

I think most wayward complains find their way to this issue. And i think when people cry out for content they're really asking for justification for the skills and equipment they've been gathering.

SE can address all the petty issues like auction houses, party exp, grind distraction quests, or chocobo's. I doubt it'll remedy the lack of design driven value that made its predecessor such a rich experience.

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 9:42am by KenJammin


I agree completely.

As a conjurer, I wind up getting a bunch of skills that I doubt I'll ever actually use, such as a skill to speed up my casting time or reduce the enmity generation by the next attack.

These would be taking up valuable space on my bar that could instead go to different elemental spells, heals and buffs so odds are I'll never use them.
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#23 Feb 10 2011 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
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TheRealDestian wrote:
KenJammin wrote:
I'm not one for long posts. So if i'm curt i apologize.
A lot of the skills and equipment have a strong feeling of unimportance. I understand this is in large part due to having limited content. The interesting thing is the skills elude themselves to having extended applications. In the equipments case the high randomness of numbers and the lack of a challenge make it difficult to asses their value. The skills in FFXI had a lot of weight mostly because there weren't that many but you knew once you got them they'd be a game changer.

I think most wayward complains find their way to this issue. And i think when people cry out for content they're really asking for justification for the skills and equipment they've been gathering.

SE can address all the petty issues like auction houses, party exp, grind distraction quests, or chocobo's. I doubt it'll remedy the lack of design driven value that made its predecessor such a rich experience.

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 9:42am by KenJammin


I agree completely.

As a conjurer, I wind up getting a bunch of skills that I doubt I'll ever actually use, such as a skill to speed up my casting time or reduce the enmity generation by the next attack.

These would be taking up valuable space on my bar that could instead go to different elemental spells, heals and buffs so odds are I'll never use them.


Really? These skills seem really useful to me, probably more in a long and challenging fight tho
#24 Feb 10 2011 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
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112 posts
northernsky wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
Quote:
A lot of the skills and equipment have a strong feeling of unimportance


I agree with the OP, but I'm just going to hone in on this one point, because its probably the biggest reason I lost interest in FFXIV. I found with gear especially, that there weren't really options, you were up to date or not. When it comes to weapons, it seems you either have the optimal level weapon or you don't. Some pieces like chests (especially), and helm/leggings seemed to have more options and trade offs, do I want something with dex/MP, STR/DEX, HP/MP etc, but for other pieces like gloves, wrists, feet I felt I was just trying to get something at my optimal rank. I felt jewelery was also pretty limited, but at least there were options as to pick what you would wear.

Similarly with abilities earned. I found that after branching to more than a few classes, even at early levels I was getting mostly slight variations on other abilities I currently had, and not changing my bars often at all.


I guess its kinda a moot point really. Yes the game hasn't been out that long so there isn't much variety (similar to FFXI), but then I think its not 2002 anymore and they should have addressed this before release etc, it doesn't really matter anymore, as hopefully they are working to improve it.


I agree and I feel the same to some point, but honestly, what special piece of gear or challenging content did we have in XI before lvl mid40?

There was a lot of content that low level would leach on others to unlock, like storyline missions or advanced classes, but there was not a lot of content for lower level people.

Now that is not an excuse for XIV to have no low level content, I'm just trying to put things into perspective




what about kazamm keys,choco license, city missions, sub-job quest, advance job quests, nm hunting "leaping boots,emp-pin, ect", the thing that an alliance would do and go into ordells cave and kill the big monster, BCNM, im sure there are more i am forgeting but that alreayd seems like alot more to do then grind and do the same leve/behest
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#25 Feb 10 2011 at 1:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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568 posts
northernsky wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
Quote:
A lot of the skills and equipment have a strong feeling of unimportance


I agree with the OP, but I'm just going to hone in on this one point, because its probably the biggest reason I lost interest in FFXIV. I found with gear especially, that there weren't really options, you were up to date or not. When it comes to weapons, it seems you either have the optimal level weapon or you don't. Some pieces like chests (especially), and helm/leggings seemed to have more options and trade offs, do I want something with dex/MP, STR/DEX, HP/MP etc, but for other pieces like gloves, wrists, feet I felt I was just trying to get something at my optimal rank. I felt jewelery was also pretty limited, but at least there were options as to pick what you would wear.

Similarly with abilities earned. I found that after branching to more than a few classes, even at early levels I was getting mostly slight variations on other abilities I currently had, and not changing my bars often at all.


I guess its kinda a moot point really. Yes the game hasn't been out that long so there isn't much variety (similar to FFXI), but then I think its not 2002 anymore and they should have addressed this before release etc, it doesn't really matter anymore, as hopefully they are working to improve it.


I agree and I feel the same to some point, but honestly, what special piece of gear or challenging content did we have in XI before lvl mid40?

There was a lot of content that low level would leach on others to unlock, like storyline missions or advanced classes, but there was not a lot of content for lower level people.

Now that is not an excuse for XIV to have no low level content, I'm just trying to put things into perspective



Quests!
Missions all of that before ToA was even announced.
These are the comments I do not understand. Getting to lvl 40 during that time took a LONG time even gaining few levels was an achievement.
The whole crafting system is based on quests you have to complete to break lvl caps.
There has always been a lot more missions in XI than in XIV before ToA arrived.

I played XI back then and I've played it now. There is more stuff one can do before lvl 40 it's unlikely anyone has even 10% of it done before he is lvl 40.

All of the spells have also been actual content with quests or just money limits to obtain them.
They've also always been there.

What are you talking about?
I do not get this it's simply not true nor is it even true when compared to the way XI was at launch.

This just makes me want to throw my hands in the air and scream "Lies all LIES!" Like an old lady =D
#26 Feb 10 2011 at 1:36 PM Rating: Excellent
**
473 posts
northernsky wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
Quote:
A lot of the skills and equipment have a strong feeling of unimportance


I agree with the OP, but I'm just going to hone in on this one point, because its probably the biggest reason I lost interest in FFXIV. I found with gear especially, that there weren't really options, you were up to date or not. When it comes to weapons, it seems you either have the optimal level weapon or you don't. Some pieces like chests (especially), and helm/leggings seemed to have more options and trade offs, do I want something with dex/MP, STR/DEX, HP/MP etc, but for other pieces like gloves, wrists, feet I felt I was just trying to get something at my optimal rank. I felt jewelery was also pretty limited, but at least there were options as to pick what you would wear.

Similarly with abilities earned. I found that after branching to more than a few classes, even at early levels I was getting mostly slight variations on other abilities I currently had, and not changing my bars often at all.


I guess its kinda a moot point really. Yes the game hasn't been out that long so there isn't much variety (similar to FFXI), but then I think its not 2002 anymore and they should have addressed this before release etc, it doesn't really matter anymore, as hopefully they are working to improve it.


I agree and I feel the same to some point, but honestly, what special piece of gear or challenging content did we have in XI before lvl mid40?

There was a lot of content that low level would leach on others to unlock, like storyline missions or advanced classes, but there was not a lot of content for lower level people.

Now that is not an excuse for XIV to have no low level content, I'm just trying to put things into perspective



I agree with you to an extent but there was low level BCNM

SMN quest line and all the subjob quest content

there was the pass for the airship and chocobo

low level nm's

for gear and items at level 30 say you could solo emp pin, lizzy boots, rabbit charm, there was all the NPC gear from
the nations so exping meant something with signet.
There was also the Eco warrior challenge
you would do the mission till rank 4/5

there was considerably more to do

albiet I am pulling first expansion content into this. Because at NA launch that came included so I don't know how it was before.
#27 Feb 10 2011 at 1:45 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
***
1,675 posts
northernsky wrote:


I agree and I feel the same to some point, but honestly, what special piece of gear or challenging content did we have in XI before lvl mid40?

There was a lot of content that low level would leach on others to unlock, like storyline missions or advanced classes, but there was not a lot of content for lower level people.

Now that is not an excuse for XIV to have no low level content, I'm just trying to put things into perspective



There were little things like scale gear at level 10. Stats seemed to matter more and level appropriate equipment meant that that gear was worth something. The first time I saw a Wakazashi or whatever I was hooked.

Lower level NMs popping gave incentive to reach a certain level.

Leveling higher meant you were able to go into new zones. In FFXIV I've been to most of the zones and I'm only Rank 28? In FFXI I felt like a Bastokan. The splitting up of zones in FFXI ironically made the world seem bigger than it was.

Getting new abilities that meant something was incentive to level.

There were quests here and there, some rank missions, town quests, airship pass, chocobo feeding, then at level 30 of course the subjob quests, level 40 AF1, genkei and well you know the rest.

In terms of content, yeah there's really not that much to disguise the horrible grind FFXI had to offer, but the lower levels pushed you to get to the meat of the content, which started around the 50's.

So, I'm not really disagreeing with you about the lack of content FFXI had for beginners however I'd add that FFXI did a good job at presenting more variety (especially in zones) and showing that simple items, like a level 10 katana can carry a lot of much needed weight.
#28Druin75, Posted: Feb 10 2011 at 1:47 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It's not fair to compare ffxiv now to ffxi at na release. That arguement is only really valid after xiv has been put for six months
#29 Feb 10 2011 at 1:50 PM Rating: Excellent
*
112 posts
Druin75 wrote:
It's not fair to compare ffxiv now to ffxi at na release. That arguement is only really valid after xiv has been put for six months



9/21/2010 to 2/10/2011 is getting pretty close to 6 months
____________________________


#30 Feb 10 2011 at 1:50 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
***
1,675 posts
Druin75 wrote:
It's not fair to compare ffxiv now to ffxi at na release. That arguement is only really valid after xiv has been put for six months


You mean how it's almost been 6 months since FFXIV's release?

You beat me...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFF3E0Aqdlc

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 2:56pm by Kierk
#31 Feb 10 2011 at 1:51 PM Rating: Good
*
146 posts
elevencharle wrote:
northernsky wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
Quote:
A lot of the skills and equipment have a strong feeling of unimportance


I agree with the OP, but I'm just going to hone in on this one point, because its probably the biggest reason I lost interest in FFXIV. I found with gear especially, that there weren't really options, you were up to date or not. When it comes to weapons, it seems you either have the optimal level weapon or you don't. Some pieces like chests (especially), and helm/leggings seemed to have more options and trade offs, do I want something with dex/MP, STR/DEX, HP/MP etc, but for other pieces like gloves, wrists, feet I felt I was just trying to get something at my optimal rank. I felt jewelery was also pretty limited, but at least there were options as to pick what you would wear.

Similarly with abilities earned. I found that after branching to more than a few classes, even at early levels I was getting mostly slight variations on other abilities I currently had, and not changing my bars often at all.


I guess its kinda a moot point really. Yes the game hasn't been out that long so there isn't much variety (similar to FFXI), but then I think its not 2002 anymore and they should have addressed this before release etc, it doesn't really matter anymore, as hopefully they are working to improve it.


I agree and I feel the same to some point, but honestly, what special piece of gear or challenging content did we have in XI before lvl mid40?

There was a lot of content that low level would leach on others to unlock, like storyline missions or advanced classes, but there was not a lot of content for lower level people.

Now that is not an excuse for XIV to have no low level content, I'm just trying to put things into perspective




what about kazamm keys,choco license, city missions, sub-job quest, advance job quests, nm hunting "leaping boots,emp-pin, ect", the thing that an alliance would do and go into ordells cave and kill the big monster, BCNM, im sure there are more i am forgeting but that alreayd seems like alot more to do then grind and do the same leve/behest


You bring very good points, yet many of these came after an expansion.

Advanced classes quests were barely doable before 30, and city missions were merely easy quests except for the 2-3 mission (level25). YOu needed at least level 40 to do the other challenging missions.

There are already in XIV storyline missions and class respective missions, but I agree that they are way too easy, but again most of quests in XI were at those same levels.

Granted, nms and BCNMs were good low level content, but still, not much before, say, level 30. I have not played since the beginning but I guess that all the nms we had in 2008 were not present at the beginning. I exaggerated a bit with level 40, I was mostly referring to the level at which gear started to matter and be more diverse
#32 Feb 10 2011 at 1:55 PM Rating: Good
*
146 posts
Kierk wrote:
northernsky wrote:


I agree and I feel the same to some point, but honestly, what special piece of gear or challenging content did we have in XI before lvl mid40?

There was a lot of content that low level would leach on others to unlock, like storyline missions or advanced classes, but there was not a lot of content for lower level people.

Now that is not an excuse for XIV to have no low level content, I'm just trying to put things into perspective



There were little things like scale gear at level 10. Stats seemed to matter more and level appropriate equipment meant that that gear was worth something. The first time I saw a Wakazashi or whatever I was hooked.

Lower level NMs popping gave incentive to reach a certain level.

Leveling higher meant you were able to go into new zones. In FFXIV I've been to most of the zones and I'm only Rank 28? In FFXI I felt like a Bastokan. The splitting up of zones in FFXI ironically made the world seem bigger than it was.

Getting new abilities that meant something was incentive to level.

There were quests here and there, some rank missions, town quests, airship pass, chocobo feeding, then at level 30 of course the subjob quests, level 40 AF1, genkei and well you know the rest.

In terms of content, yeah there's really not that much to disguise the horrible grind FFXI had to offer, but the lower levels pushed you to get to the meat of the content, which started around the 50's.

So, I'm not really disagreeing with you about the lack of content FFXI had for beginners however I'd add that FFXI did a good job at presenting more variety (especially in zones) and showing that simple items, like a level 10 katana can carry a lot of much needed weight.


Entirely agreed.

I actually agree that the game is missing something to hook me at low level and I tried to put it in the perspective of XI. But that does not mean that I want to make the point that there is as much to do in XIV that there was in XI, this is clearly not the case and most particularly I miss incentives to rank up, which the OP expressed well
#33 Feb 10 2011 at 2:06 PM Rating: Decent
**
557 posts
Of course it's "weightless" - THERE IS NO BALANCE. Why? Because there's no PVP or endgame PVE content. You're all good game players. It doesn't matter how hard SE tries to make leveling, you'll grind your way past any difficulties. Level 40 mobs too hard? Grind more on the level 38 mobs, then you'll be OP when you fight the level 40 mobs. Leveling is always easy mode; the only thing SE can control is how long it takes.

When FFXI was out, it was new. You didn't know what you were doing in an MMO. That's always exciting. Everyone loves their first MMO, whether it be FFXIV, Aion (for me), or WoW.

Once you've played MMOs for a few months, solo leveling is easy. Group leveling is easy. Even instance leveling in WoW is faceroll.

If you want challenge when leveling, play on a PVP server. That's right, there's no PVP in FFXIV, because balancing PVP is really, really hard. And PVP is the reason Aion tanked in America (leveling in Aion was pretty challenging when rifting was still viable. It made it a lot more exciting and gave you a good reason to group up).

You need more than some wandering monster to justify advanced party tactics, extensive theorycrafting and complicated control schemes to use every key within reach to take down a mob. You need dungeons, instances, raids, PVP. And you need developers that fine tune that content to take advantage of every skill you have - AOE healing, single target healing, CC, mobility. FFXIV has NONE of that. It's got empty fields with lots of generic critters. Why? Cuz they didn't have the time or money to actually develop a game. And now that the game has released to abysmal reviews, and they're not making any new money on subscriptions, it's very unlikely they're gonna have 50 developers churn out dungeons, instances, raids, battlegrounds, whatever.

FFXIV is just lacking so hard when it comes to the content that every other MMO comes with, standard. You don't want raids, PVP, instances? Fine. Then put just as much work as Blizzard puts into that stuff into your ALTERNATIVES. Cuz as far as I can see, FFXIV, walking a different path, just left that stuff out - the hard stuff that every other MMO developer grapples with - without actually giving you an alternative. That's lazy as ****.
____________________________


#34 Feb 10 2011 at 2:20 PM Rating: Good
***
3,178 posts
elevencharle wrote:
what about kazamm keys,choco license, city missions, sub-job quest, advance job quests, nm hunting "leaping boots,emp-pin, ect", the thing that an alliance would do and go into ordells cave and kill the big monster, BCNM, im sure there are more i am forgeting but that alreayd seems like alot more to do then grind and do the same leve/behest


How much of this content was available at JP release? No advanced jobs, I'm sure of that. BCNMs? No. Kazham was part of the Rise of Zilart expansion. This expansion was available before NA release.

Quote:
[FFXI] was released in Japan on Sony's PlayStation 2 on May 16, 2002, and was released for Microsoft's Windows-based personal computers in November 2002. The PC version was released in North America on October 28, 2003, and the PlayStation 2 version on March 23, 2004. In Europe, only the Windows version was released, on September 17, 2004. An Xbox 360 version was released worldwide in April 2006 for all regions, as the system's first MMORPG and the first cross-platform MMORPG.


If you played at NA release, you played a game that had been out for over a year. Including a year's worth of patches and a full sized expansion.

Quote:
At release, over one hundred quests were available to play and new quests are added frequently.


Really? A whole 100 quests?! How expectations have changed.

I think if you started playing FFXIV for the first time 6 months from now you would have a different experience.

Newbie weapons and skills feel unimportant because they are.
#35 Feb 10 2011 at 2:46 PM Rating: Good
Sage
*
139 posts
yfaithfully wrote:
Of course it's "weightless" - THERE IS NO BALANCE. Why? Because there's no PVP or endgame PVE content. You're all good game players. It doesn't matter how hard SE tries to make leveling, you'll grind your way past any difficulties. Level 40 mobs too hard? Grind more on the level 38 mobs, then you'll be OP when you fight the level 40 mobs. Leveling is always easy mode; the only thing SE can control is how long it takes.

When FFXI was out, it was new. You didn't know what you were doing in an MMO. That's always exciting. Everyone loves their first MMO, whether it be FFXIV, Aion (for me), or WoW.

Once you've played MMOs for a few months, solo leveling is easy. Group leveling is easy. Even instance leveling in WoW is faceroll.

If you want challenge when leveling, play on a PVP server. That's right, there's no PVP in FFXIV, because balancing PVP is really, really hard. And PVP is the reason Aion tanked in America (leveling in Aion was pretty challenging when rifting was still viable. It made it a lot more exciting and gave you a good reason to group up).

You need more than some wandering monster to justify advanced party tactics, extensive theorycrafting and complicated control schemes to use every key within reach to take down a mob. You need dungeons, instances, raids, PVP. And you need developers that fine tune that content to take advantage of every skill you have - AOE healing, single target healing, CC, mobility. FFXIV has NONE of that. It's got empty fields with lots of generic critters. Why? Cuz they didn't have the time or money to actually develop a game. And now that the game has released to abysmal reviews, and they're not making any new money on subscriptions, it's very unlikely they're gonna have 50 developers churn out dungeons, instances, raids, battlegrounds, whatever.

FFXIV is just lacking so hard when it comes to the content that every other MMO comes with, standard. You don't want raids, PVP, instances? Fine. Then put just as much work as Blizzard puts into that stuff into your ALTERNATIVES. Cuz as far as I can see, FFXIV, walking a different path, just left that stuff out - the hard stuff that every other MMO developer grapples with - without actually giving you an alternative. That's lazy as ****.


When World of Warcraft first came out in November of 2004, it had no end game content. It had a handful of zones all with similar "go kill 10 kobolds, come back and now kill 10 more, and now that you've done that, go kill some kobolds and collect their candles" type quests. There was pvp sure, but not in the newbie zones and there wasn't really any reason to pvp (no score, no points, no incentive of any kind). Pvp was just groups of people running around ganking you when you're low hp. Not challenging, not fun (yes I've played on a pvp server all 6 years of my off and on again WoW career). Pvp was NOT balanced or challenging. I played a druid, the only talent tree that was viable was restoration (healing), the other talent trees were broken. We had no offensive capabilities, all we could do was run around healing... and we didn't even do that well compared to other healing classes. We would barely even kill mobs in pve(other classes had similar problems, paladin for example). At least FFIV doesn't have any dead/ completely broken classes like that.

Blizzard was able to add a ton of content and balancing over the years because the game was successful. Even before the first expansion the game was completely different from the version at release.

I know this game lacks content, and lacks balance for combat, but I also think it is unfair to compare a brand new game to something that has not only been out for years but has been successful during that time. Games that get off to a rough start take longer to really shine.
____________________________

#36 Feb 10 2011 at 3:01 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
*
164 posts
This game barely has any content. The storyline missions were no where near exciting as FFXI's. The guildleve system is just a modification of FFXI's Field of Valor system. Crafting honestly was fun and interactive but theres really no point to craft. Gil is useless now. A new player could go do rank 10 or 20 leves and be able to get a level 50 weapon in a few days. Nothing is burning up the gil on the server; there aren't any server gil sinks. Maybe buying materials for crafting from a vendor and the repair npc which I haven't done since rank 10.

Like others mentioned, I feel alot of the equipment and skills aren't special. As an archer, for a long time I used Warped Arrows because there wasn't much improvement with Iron. Many of the skills I learned pretty much all deal the same damage. Debuffs felt worthless. Whats the point of shadowbinding a mob for one second. First of all, its one second to begin with and the other reason is that it seems like all mobs have a ranged attack of some sort.

It just seems like everything was way too rushed and many aspects of the game weren't completed or thought out. Even this click and buy billing system just feels rushed like they couldn't get their own setup.
____________________________
Serge Luminaire of Mysidia
Member of Blades of Valor
~ A FFXI/FFXIV Linkshell Community
_________________________________________
Retired from FFXI - EliteSerge of Valefor
Mains: 75 WHM, 75 PLD, 72 NIN, 72 THF
#37 Feb 10 2011 at 3:04 PM Rating: Good
*
112 posts
yfaithfully wrote:
Of course it's "weightless" - THERE IS NO BALANCE. Why? Because there's no PVP or endgame PVE content. You're all good game players. It doesn't matter how hard SE tries to make leveling, you'll grind your way past any difficulties. Level 40 mobs too hard? Grind more on the level 38 mobs, then you'll be OP when you fight the level 40 mobs. Leveling is always easy mode; the only thing SE can control is how long it takes.

When FFXI was out, it was new. You didn't know what you were doing in an MMO. That's always exciting. Everyone loves their first MMO, whether it be FFXIV, Aion (for me), or WoW.

Once you've played MMOs for a few months, solo leveling is easy. Group leveling is easy. Even instance leveling in WoW is faceroll.

If you want challenge when leveling, play on a PVP server. That's right, there's no PVP in FFXIV, because balancing PVP is really, really hard. And PVP is the reason Aion tanked in America (leveling in Aion was pretty challenging when rifting was still viable. It made it a lot more exciting and gave you a good reason to group up).

You need more than some wandering monster to justify advanced party tactics, extensive theorycrafting and complicated control schemes to use every key within reach to take down a mob. You need dungeons, instances, raids, PVP. And you need developers that fine tune that content to take advantage of every skill you have - AOE healing, single target healing, CC, mobility. FFXIV has NONE of that. It's got empty fields with lots of generic critters. Why? Cuz they didn't have the time or money to actually develop a game. And now that the game has released to abysmal reviews, and they're not making any new money on subscriptions, it's very unlikely they're gonna have 50 developers churn out dungeons, instances, raids, battlegrounds, whatever.

FFXIV is just lacking so hard when it comes to the content that every other MMO comes with, standard. You don't want raids, PVP, instances? Fine. Then put just as much work as Blizzard puts into that stuff into your ALTERNATIVES. Cuz as far as I can see, FFXIV, walking a different path, just left that stuff out - the hard stuff that every other MMO developer grapples with - without actually giving you an alternative. That's lazy as ****.



dont you hate how when you point out stuff to people you get rated down so fast lol. i agree with you on this game is going no where but its taking the long road trying to prolong its death. i not saying this to be a make the game sound bad i gave it a good try and even stuck up for it in the forums for a while but it is time to let it go. there is so much that needs to be done so it can compare to other games. just so you know i do not like the way other games have become either but the path this game is taking might be different but i do not think it will end with anything worth the time or money.
____________________________


#38 Feb 10 2011 at 3:12 PM Rating: Good
seiferdincht wrote:
In XI you're NEVER just given anything.
Everything your character owns is earned.


This x1,000,000

However I don't see an easy way for them to fix this now, and honestly I don't see a clear cut way to impliment the sense of accomplishment XI had without alienating people like me who no longer get to play with the same real life rules that they had when playing XI. I'm semi-casual and I want content that rewards me for my time dedicated to the game... without forcing me to dedicate time to the game in the same way I did with XI.

The closest thing I can see is locking gear to Rank if not class. I know they said they have some gear coming out that does this, I wouldn't be upset if I logged in and could no longer wear my PGL weapon that's 1 rank too high... but a ton of people would be. SE needs those peoples money much more than mine as I'm pretty much guaranteed to sub in all but the most outlandish scenarios.
____________________________
FFXI:Sylph - Perrin 75 Hume THF; Retired (At least from my use any way)
EVE Online:ScraperX; Retired
WAR:IronClaw- Peryn SW;SkullThrone- Grymloc BO; Retired


#39 Feb 10 2011 at 3:19 PM Rating: Good
Sage
**
534 posts
elevencharle wrote:
yfaithfully wrote:
Of course it's "weightless" - THERE IS NO BALANCE. Why? Because there's no PVP or endgame PVE content. You're all good game players. It doesn't matter how hard SE tries to make leveling, you'll grind your way past any difficulties. Level 40 mobs too hard? Grind more on the level 38 mobs, then you'll be OP when you fight the level 40 mobs. Leveling is always easy mode; the only thing SE can control is how long it takes.

When FFXI was out, it was new. You didn't know what you were doing in an MMO. That's always exciting. Everyone loves their first MMO, whether it be FFXIV, Aion (for me), or WoW.

Once you've played MMOs for a few months, solo leveling is easy. Group leveling is easy. Even instance leveling in WoW is faceroll.

If you want challenge when leveling, play on a PVP server. That's right, there's no PVP in FFXIV, because balancing PVP is really, really hard. And PVP is the reason Aion tanked in America (leveling in Aion was pretty challenging when rifting was still viable. It made it a lot more exciting and gave you a good reason to group up).

You need more than some wandering monster to justify advanced party tactics, extensive theorycrafting and complicated control schemes to use every key within reach to take down a mob. You need dungeons, instances, raids, PVP. And you need developers that fine tune that content to take advantage of every skill you have - AOE healing, single target healing, CC, mobility. FFXIV has NONE of that. It's got empty fields with lots of generic critters. Why? Cuz they didn't have the time or money to actually develop a game. And now that the game has released to abysmal reviews, and they're not making any new money on subscriptions, it's very unlikely they're gonna have 50 developers churn out dungeons, instances, raids, battlegrounds, whatever.

FFXIV is just lacking so hard when it comes to the content that every other MMO comes with, standard. You don't want raids, PVP, instances? Fine. Then put just as much work as Blizzard puts into that stuff into your ALTERNATIVES. Cuz as far as I can see, FFXIV, walking a different path, just left that stuff out - the hard stuff that every other MMO developer grapples with - without actually giving you an alternative. That's lazy as ****.



dont you hate how when you point out stuff to people you get rated down so fast lol. i agree with you on this game is going no where but its taking the long road trying to prolong its death. i not saying this to be a make the game sound bad i gave it a good try and even stuck up for it in the forums for a while but it is time to let it go. there is so much that needs to be done so it can compare to other games. just so you know i do not like the way other games have become either but the path this game is taking might be different but i do not think it will end with anything worth the time or money.


Well..I just rated you up and watched you turn into a Sage. Use it wisely my child for it is a gift than can easily be taken away.
____________________________
Amos Fin - Ultros

#40 Feb 10 2011 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good
***
3,178 posts
EliteSerge wrote:
This game barely has any content.

Too vague.

EliteSerge wrote:
The storyline missions were no where near exciting as FFXI's.

That's true.

EliteSerge wrote:
The guildleve system is just a modification of FFXI's Field of Valor system.

I know, what a great idea right?

EliteSerge wrote:
Gil is useless now.

Can I have yours?

EliteSerge wrote:
A new player could go do rank 10 or 20 leves and be able to get a level 50 weapon in a few days.

Wait, what?

EliteSerge wrote:
I feel alot of the equipment and skills aren't special.

You don't to feel special? I feel your skills are special.
#41 Feb 10 2011 at 4:08 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
2,153 posts
Quote:
EliteSerge wrote:
This game barely has any content.
...
Too vague.


If that's too vague for you, maybe you will consider buying new glasses, as
everybody in this forum knows *exactly* what he's talking about.
#42 Feb 10 2011 at 4:11 PM Rating: Decent
**
435 posts
northernsky wrote:
Really? These skills seem really useful to me, probably more in a long and challenging fight tho


They can be in the right circumstances, but that kind of rolls into the issue of different bar setups being a pain in the **** for different circumstances and having to swap your bar around constantly (yeah, you can do a macro for it, but that's also a PITA to keep updated with new skills).
____________________________

#43 Feb 10 2011 at 4:41 PM Rating: Good
Sage
*
139 posts
TheRealDestian wrote:
northernsky wrote:
Really? These skills seem really useful to me, probably more in a long and challenging fight tho


They can be in the right circumstances, but that kind of rolls into the issue of different bar setups being a pain in the **** for different circumstances and having to swap your bar around constantly (yeah, you can do a macro for it, but that's also a PITA to keep updated with new skills).


I wish I could remember where I read it, and I hope I'm not spurring the rumor mill by repeating it, but I heard they are planning to add a "save hot-bar" type function soon. I hope it's true because I am so looking forward to it. I am getting a little tired of updating my macros :P
____________________________

#44 Feb 10 2011 at 5:56 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
626 posts
for me the weghtlessness does actually come from the copy pasted animations and horrible spell effects.

i got a very strong sense of importance and value in FFXI that im not getting here as of yet, however (since someone posted above said having few but powerful abilities gives them weight and value), i dont feel this game has enough abilities and spells, why cant i have two fire nuke spells with different animations but similar damage?
i also dont feel that armor helps in this category either since i can wear what i want when i want. variety is the spice of life, however i have yet to see or hear of any spells/abilities that are gamechanging themselves.
there arent any long cool down heavy hitters or "this instant nuke can only be used when burn is inflicted and has a 2min cool down" kinda thing, everything is just so generic.

hopefully the greater class difference update in the future will help in this aspect aswell.
____________________________

#45 Feb 10 2011 at 5:59 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
626 posts
EliteSerge wrote:
A new player could go do rank 10 or 20 leves and be able to get a level 50 weapon in a few days.

Quote:
Wait, what?


lol what do you mean what? i saw a level 13 GLA wearing all rank 50 gear at camp horizon, at first i was thinking 'this idiots not gonna get any SP though...' then i checked him and changed my thought to 'this idiot...'
and technicly what he was wearing and his level really does only take about a week, maybe that original guy you were quoting was exadurating but not by much.

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 7:00pm by pixelpop
____________________________

#46 Feb 10 2011 at 6:44 PM Rating: Good
Sage
*
139 posts
pixelpop wrote:
EliteSerge wrote:
A new player could go do rank 10 or 20 leves and be able to get a level 50 weapon in a few days.

Quote:
Wait, what?


lol what do you mean what? i saw a level 13 GLA wearing all rank 50 gear at camp horizon, at first i was thinking 'this idiots not gonna get any SP though...' then i checked him and changed my thought to 'this idiot...'
and technicly what he was wearing and his level really does only take about a week, maybe that original guy you were quoting was exadurating but not by much.

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 7:00pm by pixelpop


I'm not really sure I follow you on this... I'm sorry. Maybe someone can translate for me.

pixelpop wrote:
for me the weghtlessness does actually come from the copy pasted animations and horrible spell effects.

i got a very strong sense of importance and value in FFXI that im not getting here as of yet, however (since someone posted above said having few but powerful abilities gives them weight and value), i dont feel this game has enough abilities and spells, why cant i have two fire nuke spells with different animations but similar damage?
i also dont feel that armor helps in this category either since i can wear what i want when i want. variety is the spice of life, however i have yet to see or hear of any spells/abilities that are gamechanging themselves.
there arent any long cool down heavy hitters or "this instant nuke can only be used when burn is inflicted and has a 2min cool down" kinda thing, everything is just so generic.

hopefully the greater class difference update in the future will help in this aspect aswell.


I think the original point of this thread was that too many abilities are similar to the point where none of them have any real value. I don't really think that having more of the same would be in anyone's best interest. And I am also hoping that a greater difference in class distinction will help make the abilities feel more important. But on the other hand I do have to say that it felt really great the first time I learned Cure, or Protection. I can't wait for the higher level version.
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#47 Feb 10 2011 at 8:16 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
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92 posts
I frequently get a feeling of weightlessness when I notice the physics engine is too weak to keep my character's feet from hovering above the ground :D
#48 Feb 10 2011 at 8:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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1,313 posts
yfaithfully wrote:


FFXIV is just lacking so hard when it comes to the content that every other MMO comes with, standard. You don't want raids, PVP, instances? Fine.


You know.. it sucks, but the more I talk to FFXIV players, the more I realize a lot of them really don't want these things.

/shrug

Quote:
Debuffs felt worthless. Whats the point of shadowbinding a mob for one second.


omg shadowbind is so useless. I'm with you on that.

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 9:37pm by Transmigration
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Eithne Draocht
My IG: archaicmachinery - Friend me!
#49 Feb 10 2011 at 8:46 PM Rating: Good
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491 posts
Ancient Magic.
#50 Feb 10 2011 at 9:57 PM Rating: Default
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322 posts
seiferdincht wrote:
"Farmvillers" can rate me down all you want.

In XI you're NEVER just given anything.

Everything your character owns is earned.

The design team has wasted massive amounts of rewards by making the skill gains automatic. There will never be quests to receive even the most useful spells like Raise or Holy. There will never be a quest to gain a map to a previously maze-like area.

There's another sad thread here where people discuss whether or not SE should give xp for quests. This is a horrible idea probably just born out of the fact that there's not that much else to give.


Now I'm busy doing a leve where I've died 4 times already. In XI this kind of situation would be catastrophic and cause me to form an elaborate plan to complete this leve but in XIV I just don't care. Dying is meaningless as well. The gil and gear reward are next to meaningless =(




Sup Class Quests that unlock the purchase of new abilities. Those count as quests that unlock abilities. :-p
#51 Feb 10 2011 at 11:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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236 posts
I think this topic kind of hits the nail on the head. I've only been playing for about a week now, but I've been trying to keep a careful perspective so that I could analyze my experience compared to the negativity that swirls around FFXIV. One of the things that really stands out to me is that there are TOO MANY abilities; one every, what, two levels? The fact that you don't have to buy or quest for spells and that TP abilities are so numerous (as is TP) makes the combat system super stale very shortly into the experience. When you had to return to town (or be carrying your next spells on you for when you leveled) to get your next scrolls, maybe having to farm a little to afford them or wait for something to sell on AH, there was a huge sense of excitement involved in finally being able to use that spell and most every spell that you purchased was important and you knew that having it would change your next party experience. Same goes for finally earning that next weapon skill when you got "learned Tachi: Gekko" to finally pop on the screen; knowing you were close to it, seeing it come up in battle, the excitement in finally using it... none of that exists in FFXIV.

In this game I spam skills with my TP one after the other and none of them are meaningful to me. In FFXI when I did solo, mostly in the early goings, but even trying to take a monster 1v1 in campaign, you held onto your TP to get that spike damage, maybe get the additional stun at an opportune moment, and it was very strategic and you felt anxious as you watched your TP meter build. In FFXIV I have 1457 TP after three hits and can start spamming abilities and none of it matters. I really felt that the combat system was a strong point in FFXI. I don't know if that is the popular notion or not, but for me, I thought it was one of the strongest aspects. Even when SAM was my first job to 75 and I was able to boost my meditate to 140 TP, achieve a 5-hit TP build, get my Soboro and use my 2-hour to fire off five or six WS in a row, each one was significant - especially because they chained together for additional damage, but only certain ones achieved the desired effect together - and I never felt like I was just mindlessly spamming abilities. If that was the case I would have just hammered Tachi: Gekko five times in a row without putting any thought or timing into it.

It's been identified already, clearly, but it's the idea that you had to EARN every spell/skill and every significant piece of gear that made FFXI SO rewarding. Time consuming? Yes... frustratingly so at times, but EVERYTHING was earned. How good did that DM earring feel? Your CoP ring? Mythic WS? First significant piece of AF? FFXIV hands everything to you. More skills than you can use, and many you don't even want to. There isn't much of a strategy to FFXIV for me; I just spam attacks and abilities while making sure to sprinkle in enough healing to outlast the mob. Which abilities, when I use them... none of that matters. Just go berserk and make sure you throw in enough second winds and sacrifices. Leveling up any class IS skilling up that weapon, which takes away depth from the leveling experience. Just because your Paladin was level 75 in FFXI didn't mean you had capped sword skill.

I don't have a suggestion for what can be done and I'm not sure how I'll feel as the game evolves for me and I experience higher levels, more story and hopefully, future content. If they implement a lot of good content and fun storylines I guess it will certainly keep me playing, but this combat system and the overall reward system is the most dissatisfying part of the experience and I had to agree with the OP whole heartedly here. I also agree that the only reason people want EXP as rewards for quests is because there really isn't anything else for the game to give; everything else is easily available. I hope SE can find some kind of creative way to, at least, offset this sensation somewhat.
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