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FFXIV gives me a strong feeling of weightlessness. Follow

#52 Feb 10 2011 at 11:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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McCraine- I totally 100% agree with you about why FFXI skills felt important. I like games where I have to work hard to earn something. But the truth is, today's gamer has changed. Today's gamer doesn't have several hours a day, several days a week to farm money to buy a spell so they can go back to being important in groups. Today's gamer complains about the time it takes to walk from the entrance of the market ward to the retainer selling their item (see other threads in this forum).

I really wish that MMOs could go back to those long days of sitting on the boat talking and fishing on your way to the town to buy a new spell. I truly miss the days of when the long walk to the town was just as important and just as exciting as being in the town and just as fun as being outside of the town earning exp. When discovery was just as important as leveling and end game content. But the market has moved on past that. Today's gamer does not have time for such idle fancies!
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#53 Feb 10 2011 at 11:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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I agree and understand that the market has indeed changed, but I for one am like you and miss those days. I also think it's a BIG reason why the newer games don't have nearly the strength of social aspect that games like FFXI did. I made two friends in FFXI on my first ever walk to Jeuno that I maintained close friendships in the game with for over 5 years. We were just walking, for what felt like forever. We didn't know which direction to go, we didn't have someone guide us, we were too new to the game (right around NA PC release) to think to bring prism powders and silent oils, so we just found our way, avoiding monsters and talking. Years later, we were all multiple 75s, all in our own separate linkshells and still good friends. We crafted for one another, randomly hit one another up when we needed a party replacement and knew that even though the other wasn't seeking, they just might want a chance to level that PLD they'd been working on on the side.

I think the "lack of time" the new gamer has (it's really just impatience... I mean, I don't have the same amount of time to invest in XIV that I did in XI years ago, so I understand stream lining it somewhat, but it's really just the modern NEED for immediate satisfaction) really negates much of the POINT of MMOs. MMOs are living things that don't have a definitive end. You're not SUPPOSED to master it in a couple of months and move on. You're not supposed to "reach the end" in a timely manner. You're supposed to be on for the long haul, taking the journey, making friends and growing as the game grows (through patches and expansions).

A lot of the time I really feel like going back and starting FFXI at level one. It was really the perfect MMO for me at the time. I just can't bear the thought of doing it all over again, and can't imagine making the same kind of friendships this time around when everyone is level 80+ already and I wouldn't experience the same kind of camaraderie going through the early levels as I did the first time around. But this game is just lacking something that FFXI definitely had.
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#54 Feb 11 2011 at 12:09 AM Rating: Good
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Oops I'm sorry I spelled your name wrong on that other post, it was on the other page so I couldn't see it. Guess I should have just quoted it.

Your story about walking to Jueno actually brought a smile to my face because I think most of us had similar experiences. For me I met this Taiwanese guy who barely spoke English, but spoke decent Japanese, and I barely understand Japanese. He was a much higher level than my friend and I and he walked us to Jueno, telling us it's the place to be for our level. Right before reaching the town, my friend dies and the guy who walked us had to call in a linkshell mate to come rez my friend. Good times :) We all became fast friends after that. I actually learned a lot of fun Japanese sayings from his all Taiwanese linkshell, such as how to say "afk a moment".

It kind of makes me want to go play FFXI again too... but I am making new friends in FFXIV and I think I will have just as much fun once there are more things to do.
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#55 Feb 11 2011 at 3:56 AM Rating: Decent
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@Rekia
I cannot wholly agree. I *do* consider walking to each retainer a completely unnecessary hassle, but I *loved* sneaking my way to Jeuno @LV15. And questing my Utsusemi:Ichi and Utsusemi:Ni spells. The difference is that the one is just a "daily hassle", while the other is a one-time meaningful "quest". That's a difference.

@McCraine
I don't like walls of text; they tend to get lost in petty words and repetitions. But yours, I read through. There are some abilities in the game that are good, and which *everybody* uses (shock spikes, shell, protect...). B*O*R*I*N*G. And weaponskills just get spam-spam-spammed every 5 seconds. I've been using the same two weaponskills on GLD for 4 months now. The first is phalanx... and the second, I can't even remember the name. After 4 months. Because it's so IRRELEVANT.

#56 Feb 11 2011 at 11:08 AM Rating: Good
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Hey guys.

if you play like a robot.

you will feel like a robot.
#57 Feb 11 2011 at 12:04 PM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
@Rekia
I cannot wholly agree. I *do* consider walking to each retainer a completely unnecessary hassle, but I *loved* sneaking my way to Jeuno @LV15. And questing my Utsusemi:Ichi and Utsusemi:Ni spells. The difference is that the one is just a "daily hassle", while the other is a one-time meaningful "quest". That's a difference.


I suppose I see your point on why some people would not like it. But for me sometimes these little daily routines you do add a little needed flavor to an otherwise dull activity. I don't think everything should be easy and instant. I mean why stop at auction houses? Why not have the ability to use the UI to buy and sell from anywhere in the world and then instantly receive the item, not even have to pick it up from the mail box? Or maybe just the crystal, similar to how FFXIII had those save point shops.

Why, because then there would be no immersion in the act of buying anything. It's these little things that add so much needed fantasy to a game. It's a fantasy game, it's not online economics or something. Going to town to buy and sell is a little daily routine, you will do it often, sometimes you will be annoyed by doing it, but you may meet someone or do something fun while in that town. Or it may just be like the last 500 times you visited, nothing happens.

The fact is that walking to town to do business is inconvenient, but it's an industry standard, whereas walking an extra few feet to the retainer is not and people are not used to it, so they complain.
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#58 Feb 11 2011 at 12:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I know this game lacks content, and lacks balance for combat, but I also think it is unfair to compare a brand new game to something that has not only been out for years but has been successful during that time. Games that get off to a rough start take longer to really shine.


When is it going to be fair to compare XIV to.. well anything else at all?

I still see people pulling the "brand new game" card, but it's been six months into release, after a beta period that was at least as long with the same complaints, and an alleged 5 years of development on top of an already successful MMO franchise by the same company. When is this no longer a brand new foray into the world of mmos with just a few "growing pains"?

It's old and it's really getting tired.

I come back here every week or so to see what has changed and whether it's worth coming back - all the while expecting to see threads of epic proportions and instead there are necrobumps of "Can FFXIV survive its playerbase" and speculation threads like "Do you think they meant this by this vague comment".

I really, really wanted to give this game a chance to grow out of its infancy but it's looking like they are just dragging out a big fat nothing.
#59 Feb 11 2011 at 12:27 PM Rating: Good
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Torrence wrote:
Quote:
I know this game lacks content, and lacks balance for combat, but I also think it is unfair to compare a brand new game to something that has not only been out for years but has been successful during that time. Games that get off to a rough start take longer to really shine.


When is it going to be fair to compare XIV to.. well anything else at all?

I still see people pulling the "brand new game" card, but it's been six months into release, after a beta period that was at least as long with the same complaints, and an alleged 5 years of development on top of an already successful MMO franchise by the same company. When is this no longer a brand new foray into the world of mmos with just a few "growing pains"?

It's old and it's really getting tired.

I come back here every week or so to see what has changed and whether it's worth coming back - all the while expecting to see threads of epic proportions and instead there are necrobumps of "Can FFXIV survive its playerbase" and speculation threads like "Do you think they meant this by this vague comment".

I really, really wanted to give this game a chance to grow out of its infancy but it's looking like they are just dragging out a big fat nothing.


That quote is a tiny bit out of context like that. The whole point to that post was that if you compare FFXIV brand new, how it released, to WoW, brand new, how it released, (really you could compare it to any major MMO at the day of release, God anyone remember how buggy EQ was? haha) you will see that both were an unfinished product at the time. And that you can't compared how FFXIV is right now to a game that has come so far and grown so much since that initial release.

I guess I need to start putting "TL;DR" summaries on my posts :\

The original point I was trying to make I guess was talking about WoW:
Quote:
Even before the first expansion the game was completely different from the version at release.


Meaning that the game had grown a lot from it's initial release. I am hoping that this game will grow too.
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#60 Feb 11 2011 at 12:34 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm agreeing with the majority of the thread minus the whole 'money' issue. Frankly, the majority of the complaints (aside from the valid "There's nothing to do with the cash, yet") all stem from people comparing what they have/can earn now compared to what you could do for the same effort in FFXI -- stop comparing because that's foolish.

Content wise I'll agree that there is a small amount of content (enough to keep people happy) before the 30/40 levels in FFXI. However, in now way, shape, or form would I ever list the NMs that drop gear as part of that content. That's farming (which is never content and simply a timesink) where you either got the cash or went after the item; which of the two is a lesser evil to you?

I do miss the mission cutscenes though, even if I don't miss how horribly mismatched the gear was on the NPCs at the time.

Rekia wrote:
When World of Warcraft first came out in November of 2004, it had no end game content. It had a handful of zones all with similar "go kill 10 kobolds, come back and now kill 10 more, and now that you've done that, go kill some kobolds and collect their candles" type quests. There was pvp sure, but not in the newbie zones and there wasn't really any reason to pvp (no score, no points, no incentive of any kind). Pvp was just groups of people running around ganking you when you're low hp. Not challenging, not fun (yes I've played on a pvp server all 6 years of my off and on again WoW career). Pvp was NOT balanced or challenging. I played a druid, the only talent tree that was viable was restoration (healing), the other talent trees were broken. We had no offensive capabilities, all we could do was run around healing... and we didn't even do that well compared to other healing classes. We would barely even kill mobs in pve(other classes had similar problems, paladin for example). At least FFIV doesn't have any dead/ completely broken classes like that.

Blizzard was able to add a ton of content and balancing over the years because the game was successful. Even before the first expansion the game was completely different from the version at release.

I know this game lacks content, and lacks balance for combat, but I also think it is unfair to compare a brand new game to something that has not only been out for years but has been successful during that time. Games that get off to a rough start take longer to really shine.


Bolded part = W R O N G. People need to stop spouting this bullsh*t nonsense every time they have to respond and feel the need to falsify a game. I don't play WoW anymore, for various reasons, but one thing I cannot tolerate are people trying to stir things up with blatantly false information about any game. Handful of zones? So, you mean two continents with 45 zones (21 + 24) along with 17 dungeon crawlers are a handful? You need to learn how to count (and there's probably a few I missed in not trying to count anything added before the first major patch).

The rest of your post is just nonsensical drivel about that game and what sounds like poor conceptions and play abilities. Quite possibly that isn't so, but that's how you come across as.

Italicized part = foolish belief. History's shown in the MMO world that games in this genre that launch to a rocky start simply DON'T ever pick back up beyond their launch size. Players simply don't have the patience (nor should they) to stick around with a game where the developers didn't bother to put their best foot forward. The ONLY reason Square-Enix even has a snowball's chance is due to the re-release on the PS3.

Do I want the game to fail? No, as I already paid for the copy and would appreciate a game that's still 'newish' and not years old that I can enjoy. In the meantime, I'll simply enjoy the Wii/360 until SE gets their **** straightened out and logging in itself isn't such a chore.

Edited, Feb 11th 2011 1:41pm by StrijderVechter
#61 Feb 11 2011 at 1:27 PM Rating: Good
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zhinse wrote:
Hey guys.

if you play like a robot.

you will feel like a robot.


This. I don't know about you guys... when I first started and I got haymaker, I tried it but I sucked with the timing and I didn't evade much so, I though "oh this is dumb" and put red lotus blade on my PUG instead.

Now I evade so much that I feel the need to have both jarring strike AND haymaker on my bar. And while some of you talk about the weapon skills having no meaning - I feel good when I time things nicely - featherfoot, then raging strike - then holding my guns for the evade (positioning myself, gaining back some stamina) EVADE - JARRING STRIKE.

Then bash bash - oh, my invigorate timer is up, turn that on, bash, EVADE haymaker! featherfoot, raging strike EVADE jarring strike, trammel.

There is a rhythm with it - I feel good when I pull it off, and there is a difference between playing well and playing poorly. If you think that it was harder sitting doing nothing in XI while auto-attack did all the work - well, I don't know what to say. I love the reactionary weaponskills in this game, and I think battle is way more fun and engaging than in XI.

I like the skillchains/magic burst system in XI better so far [edit: and I miss self skill-chaining with MB on my BLU ;;) but that is partially because I haven't mastered the battle regimens - so I can't accurately judge which is better. I think skillchains were more intuitive though, for sure.

As for skills being interchangeable etc - I completely disagree. There is a big difference between jarring strike and red lotus blade. I equip them for different situations. When I am worried that I will miss a lot (fighting monsters significantly above my rank) I equip red lotus and use it in conjunction with raging strike - because it is never miss damage.

When I want to hit hard and fast I equip tons of 250/500 TP weaponskills and absorb TP. That way I am always ready to deliver a hard strike.

I think that it takes awhile to get the hang of this system - and that if you don't have a lot of jobs leveled, you really miss the benefits of it. Things seem interchangeable and bland when you don't have a lot to choose from... but I find myself changing my bar all the time depending on the size of the party - whether I am tanking or DDing - what rank our mages are, what we are fighting - etc.

If everything was "interchangable" then why would I bother changing my bars at all?

Edited, Feb 11th 2011 11:33am by Olorinus
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#62 Feb 11 2011 at 1:46 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
That quote is a tiny bit out of context like that. The whole point to that post was that if you compare FFXIV brand new, how it released, to WoW, brand new, how it released, (really you could compare it to any major MMO at the day of release, God anyone remember how buggy EQ was? haha) you will see that both were an unfinished product at the time. And that you can't compared how FFXIV is right now to a game that has come so far and grown so much since that initial release.


Perhaps - but folks just want to ignore that this isn't Square Enix's first try and it ain't 2004 anymore.

It's perfectly valid to compare it to a game that is now in 2011 because in all honestly, SE has claimed they have been developing this game for almost as long as WoW has been running. Around ~6 years now with the alpha, beta, 6 months release and their claim of 5 years development (I believe it - it coincides with the first whisperings of rapture).

It should be further along and it should be more comparable to the games of today regardless of how long they have been running. It's not a brand new game.

It's just being naive to say "oh well this other game has had longer to get better" when it really hasn't - and in fact SE has been running their mmos longer than Blizzard has been running WoW. I hold Square Enix to a higher standard of excellence.

At some point we need to stop making excuses for them.
#63 Feb 11 2011 at 1:50 PM Rating: Good
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Hey, whoever defaulted me could at least have the decency to respond to my post

Smiley: rolleyes

I don't think I was offensive there - and if I was I would love to know about it. What is it I said that was so bothersome that you felt like you had to click the little red arrow?
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#64 Feb 11 2011 at 3:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Hey, whoever defaulted me could at least have the decency to respond to my post

Smiley: rolleyes


I sure know what you mean! Having a differing opinion is one thing. The rate down without any reason given is just irritating. Let's discuss. It's a forum, not a battle.

For the topic at hand, McCrain does a nice job of describing exactly what he feels is missing. Personally, I still get pretty excited for each new skill I learn. Mabybe it has something to do with the class you are leveling? A guy in our LS hit Invigorate II the other night and just about broke the chat system with his enthusiasm. I had fun just watching him celebrate.

I tell you what - when I get my own Goblin longsword, I'm going to do a little dance around my house.

That said, those fond memories from FFXI were EPIC! And I think we all want FFXIV to provide that awesome feeling of accomplishment. Any suggestions along those lines are well worth listening to.
#65 Feb 11 2011 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
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StrijderVechter wrote:
Bolded part = W R O N G. People need to stop spouting this bullsh*t nonsense every time they have to respond and feel the need to falsify a game. I don't play WoW anymore, for various reasons, but one thing I cannot tolerate are people trying to stir things up with blatantly false information about any game. Handful of zones? So, you mean two continents with 45 zones (21 + 24) along with 17 dungeon crawlers are a handful? You need to learn how to count (and there's probably a few I missed in not trying to count anything added before the first major patch).

The rest of your post is just nonsensical drivel about that game and what sounds like poor conceptions and play abilities. Quite possibly that isn't so, but that's how you come across as.

Italicized part = foolish belief. History's shown in the MMO world that games in this genre that launch to a rocky start simply DON'T ever pick back up beyond their launch size. Players simply don't have the patience (nor should they) to stick around with a game where the developers didn't bother to put their best foot forward. The ONLY reason Square-Enix even has a snowball's chance is due to the re-release on the PS3.

Do I want the game to fail? No, as I already paid for the copy and would appreciate a game that's still 'newish' and not years old that I can enjoy. In the meantime, I'll simply enjoy the Wii/360 until SE gets their sh*t straightened out and logging in itself isn't such a chore.

Edited, Feb 11th 2011 1:41pm by StrijderVechter


Well I am sorry I offended you. I usually don't get flamed so much because I try to keep my posts impersonal and polite. Also I try to stay positive instead of being all like "THE END IS NEAR, REPENT, REPENT!!". But I guess it's my fault for not choosing my words more carefully. I suppose what I really meant to say was "A handful of zones when compared to the current state of the game" or even "A bunch of zone with boring similar content" maybe I should edit it to "A handful of types of zones" to be more clear.

I am also sorry that my anecdote is pointless drivel to you, but personally I like to try to illustrate a point with a little story or example. It makes it easier to understand what I am trying to say.

Quote:
Games that get off to a rough start take longer to really shine.


I suppose what I was thinking of when I wrote that was Turbine's recent success with their previously unpopular MMOs: LOTRO and DDO. It took them a while to figure it out, they had to re adapt their entire games to a "free to play" model, but those games have never been more popular. Turbine was able to add a bunch of great content and updates to Dungeons and Dragons online since they changed the business model and all these great updates are free to subscribers too (probably LOTRO too but I haven't really been following that one as much). There are many more games that also have taken a similar approach and come back from the brink.

There's nothing wrong with trying to stay positive about a game I want to see succeed, and if believing in something is foolish, then color me foolish.
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#66 Feb 11 2011 at 3:30 PM Rating: Default
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Rekia wrote:


That quote is a tiny bit out of context like that. The whole point to that post was that if you compare FFXIV brand new, how it released, to WoW, brand new, how it released, (really you could compare it to any major MMO at the day of release, God anyone remember how buggy EQ was? haha) you will see that both were an unfinished product at the time. And that you can't compared how FFXIV is right now to a game that has come so far and grown so much since that initial release.

I guess I need to start putting "TL;DR" summaries on my posts :\

The original point I was trying to make I guess was talking about WoW:
Quote:
Even before the first expansion the game was completely different from the version at release.


Meaning that the game had grown a lot from it's initial release. I am hoping that this game will grow too.



here, you're wrong. and so is everyone else comparing FFXIV to WoW and EQ. What a fallacy. If you're going to compare, compare XIV to other contemporary MMOs, not some crap from 8 years ago or whatever. compare it to rift, since that is the most contemporary triple A title.
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