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R40 behest, what's your take on minimum rank?Follow

#1 Feb 10 2011 at 10:13 AM Rating: Decent
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I've noticed that lately there have been many low ranks doing R40 behests and ruining SP party bonus for many of the higher ranks. I'm talking about ranks 30-35 people doing R40 behests. ****, as I type there is a rank 24 in the behest party at BW right now.

I realize and acknowledge that there is no minimum rank, and any player of any rank has the right to participate in any behest. But should there be an unwritten rule on decency about a minimum rank to join a certain behest? Personally, I didn't join R40 behests until I was 38+. I think 35+ is alright. 30-34 seems a bit low (and cancels out party bonus for anyone ranked 40+), 24 is just ridiculous.

As I said, I know that everyone has the right to participate...but should they?

What's your take on this matter?

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#2 Feb 10 2011 at 10:15 AM Rating: Good
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But should there be an unwritten rule on decency about a minimum rank to join a certain behest?


There should be a written rule, encoded in to the game to force people not to do this. SE put too much faith in their players to wear the correctly ranked gear, do the correctly ranked events for their range, etc.
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#3 Feb 10 2011 at 10:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Since they are obviously badass enough to party with the big boys, make them tank.
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#4 Feb 10 2011 at 10:19 AM Rating: Good
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Transmigration wrote:
Quote:
But should there be an unwritten rule on decency about a minimum rank to join a certain behest?


There should be a written rule, encoded in to the game to force people not to do this. SE put too much faith in their players to wear the correctly ranked gear, do the correctly ranked events for their range, etc.


Obviously I agree with this. What I meant was in this current state where there is no code, should people have the decency to "know where to play"?
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#5 Feb 10 2011 at 10:19 AM Rating: Good
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Anyone who is r33 or below shouldn't even be getting invited to r40 behest. They won't get decent sp, they will ***** up SP for everyone else, and they are just being stupid. A rank 24, really? That's just absolutely ridiculous. Realistically, I agree that 35 should be the cutoff. I'd also like to comment on people who are far too HIGH a rank doing the wrong behest, as that actually irritates me even more. Nothing is worse than seeing an r40 player doing an r30 behest and completely ruining the SP for everyone. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who just absolutely don't get it, and unless you spell it out for them, they still won't.

I'd say let those people know. Explain that they are doing the wrong behest and that they would get MUCH better SP doing one at their level. If they still don't listen, boot them from the party. We shouldn't have to suffer poor SP in Behest because someone is ignorant.
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#6 Feb 10 2011 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
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Threx wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
Quote:
But should there be an unwritten rule on decency about a minimum rank to join a certain behest?


There should be a written rule, encoded in to the game to force people not to do this. SE put too much faith in their players to wear the correctly ranked gear, do the correctly ranked events for their range, etc.


Obviously I agree with this. What I meant was in this current state where there is no code, should people have the decency to "know where to play"?


Yes.

I think the community needs to start being more tough on it's players, like some other gaming communities out there. It seems when people repeatedly make mistakes in behest (not just during one run, but for multiple days on end) everyone just shrugs it off. If some guy is wearing R50 armor and weapons on his R20, no one says anything. . At the risk of sounding childish, I think we should make fun of these people and kick them from our groups. I've tried to be polite about it before and I got a kind of ********** off I'll do what I want response". So if I guy pulls AoE 3 or 4 times in a behest and grabs yellow mobs, kick him and have everyone point and laugh. If someone is using a way overly ranked weapon, tell them how ****** their damage is.
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#7 Feb 10 2011 at 10:25 AM Rating: Good
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If a behest is goign off in a rank 20 area and no one is around I usually just solo it for fun.

But I got some heat doing this the other day because some rank 14 con was doing it at the last minute and started /tell ing me off for stealing the mobs..

So I let him take one and he promptly died... I hate people sometimes.
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#8 Feb 10 2011 at 10:27 AM Rating: Good
**** r40+ folks ruining my good skill points! There should be rank limit from 30 to 35!

On a more serious note: Ive seen more r50 people doing behest and "stealing" a spot from someone who needs the exp.
#9 Feb 10 2011 at 10:27 AM Rating: Decent
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I think if you're not strong enough to get the leves from that camp, you shouldn't be allowed to run the behest for that camp. That would be a simple fix, and then people wouldn't get so mad. As far as a top level cap, maybe 10 levels above when you can get the leves...so for the r40 camps, you could be r33-43 in order to take place in the behest for that camp. I don't know. People won't like it no matter how you do it, I suppose. *shrug*
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#10 Feb 10 2011 at 10:30 AM Rating: Decent
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again, just make them tank, after they die, finish the mobs
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#11 Feb 10 2011 at 10:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Threx wrote:

I've noticed that lately there have been many low ranks doing R40 behests and ruining SP party bonus for many of the higher ranks. I'm talking about ranks 30-35 people doing R40 behests. ****, as I type there is a rank 24 in the behest party at BW right now.

I realize and acknowledge that there is no minimum rank, and any player of any rank has the right to participate in any behest. But should there be an unwritten rule on decency about a minimum rank to join a certain behest? Personally, I didn't join R40 behests until I was 38+. I think 35+ is alright. 30-34 seems a bit low (and cancels out party bonus for anyone ranked 40+), 24 is just ridiculous.

As I said, I know that everyone has the right to participate...but should they?

What's your take on this matter?



R30 will not lower the SP of the R40, unless he was the only one in the party with the R30. I went with r50 to kill dobs. I was r15 archer. Solo he got 77. With me in party he got 77. With a third member in the party @r45 he got 97. SP isn't affected, he just wouldn't get the party bonus for me since I'm >5 ranks up/down from him.

Sample Party:
Member 1: 33
Member 2: 37
Member 3: 42
Member 4: 47

Because of the way the system works, only Members 2 and 3 get a party bonus based on 3 people.

Members 1 and 4 only get a bonus based on 2 people since everyone else is >5 above/below them.

Where as party of 40's with a <35 person in the party would function in that the <35 person would only get solo experience, and the others would be calcuated based on the above example.

SE made some comments on this. The R30 wouldn't ***** over the SP for the R40 it would just mean he wouldn't get a party bonus for that member, but he WOULD for other members. I posted in another thread:
http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=152&mid=1297059550177482094&page=1&howmany=50#msg1297282945105344748

edit: I know they wouldn't hit the mobs well, they will die alot, but it's just a game and isn't going to hurt you in this case.

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 8:49am by Elionara
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#12 Feb 10 2011 at 11:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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AlothiaStarkwood wrote:
I think if you're not strong enough to get the leves from that camp, you shouldn't be allowed to run the behest for that camp. That would be a simple fix, and then people wouldn't get so mad. As far as a top level cap, maybe 10 levels above when you can get the leves...so for the r40 camps, you could be r33-43 in order to take place in the behest for that camp. I don't know. People won't like it no matter how you do it, I suppose. *shrug*


The problem is that people change jobs frequently so you can't tell at the moment they get into the party if they will actually play this class and rank.

Also, I did a low level behest the other day and there was another R48 with me. He invited me, I did not say a thing, then when the behest started he switched to a R10 job but we had lik 20 mobs to fight for just the 2 of us, the SP was insane. COuld it be that the number of mobs is adjusted with the cumulative number of ranks in the pt before behest starts?

In this case doing leves at your rank would be even more important

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 12:03pm by northernsky
#13 Feb 10 2011 at 11:03 AM Rating: Good
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Still though it does mess it up for those are within the appropriate range. i personally feel that SE should put min and max levels for every behest.

But this is what trolls and other foolish people will say


BUT THIS WON"T LET ME PLAY THE GAME THE WAY I WANT TO (insert other random gibberish here).

This system does coddle the players saying its ok to do what ever you want.
You want to use a weapon 30 ranks above you? SE sure its ok
You want to use armour 30 levels over ur rank? SE sure its ok
you want to do behest at 50 even though your 20? SE meh what do we care

why?
because this game has been tailored in those respects to being overly casual friendly.
I say keep mob challenge there, but with rewarding sp so solo'ers can have fun and progress
but don't easy mode a whole game because ppl whine and complain because they died and had to try something else.

I am with those ho think the system as a whole is far too loose. I love soloing to farm and have gil and exp reward and make progress. Great on SE but I would like to have 3-5 min solo fights not 60 seconds or less
#14 Feb 10 2011 at 11:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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(-_-)

If you haven't figured it out yet. You can start 40 leves at rank 33 solo (for your first class). This assumption that people need to be 40 to do behest at those camps is ridiculous...

The thing that is wrong right now is that there aren't any behests at the 50 camps so people close to 50 are stuck doing the one at 40 camps. Which creates the anger with the lower ranks. But both sides have the right to do that behest. Eventhough it's not optimal...
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#15 Feb 10 2011 at 11:31 AM Rating: Good
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i think a larger issue with behest is if/when population gets bigger the 15 person max. outside of ul'dah this is already an issue on selbina server. if exp/sp is less for having people of to high or low of a rank kills it then not being able to even get in really is s huge flaw. compare it to besiged in ffxi the limit was something like 400 people and that would fill up quite often now we have a total of 45 people per rank that can do behest this is not going to work. i have missed 2 already this morning so now when i do get in its gona be an AOE feast to try and deter people from doing behest so they make a bigger complaint to SE. call it selfish if you want but i call it making people complain about the way people act in behest so SE will fix things.

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 12:34pm by elevencharle
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#16 Feb 10 2011 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good
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Yes, 33 is the min for 40 behests. To repeat the sentiment two posts post above this one, I want a behest at camp Dragonhead **** it!

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 12:34pm by Jefro420
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#17 Feb 10 2011 at 11:43 AM Rating: Good
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FFXIV needs Trick Attack. :)
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#18 Feb 10 2011 at 11:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
FFXIV needs Trick Attack. :)

We need the opposite of Cover, Cower. With this skill you could grab the nearest party member and use them as a meat shield. In this case the r24 party member.

:P
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#19 Feb 10 2011 at 11:57 AM Rating: Good
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Jefro420 wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
FFXIV needs Trick Attack. :)

We need the opposite of Cover, Cower. With this skill you could grab the nearest party member and use them as a meat shield. In this case the r24 party member.

:P


Nah they will wait face down and continue to leach SP
#20 Feb 10 2011 at 12:07 PM Rating: Good
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northernsky wrote:
Jefro420 wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
FFXIV needs Trick Attack. :)

We need the opposite of Cover, Cower. With this skill you could grab the nearest party member and use them as a meat shield. In this case the r24 party member.

:P


Nah they will wait face down and continue to leach SP

That's probably true, but at least they would get a 3 minute penalty for stupidity.
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#21 Feb 10 2011 at 2:20 PM Rating: Default
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I still don't think letting someone leech sp while afk is much of a "penalty." While you feed the lowbies their sp, you might want to rethink who the "stupid" ones are.
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#22 Feb 10 2011 at 5:01 PM Rating: Good
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I have solo'd Bald Knoll and Iron Lake several times at rank 35 pug. So I am gonna have a hard time setting the minimum anywhere around 35.
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#23 Feb 10 2011 at 6:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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I can only conclude that I am an exceptionally wimpy player, as I certainly couldn't solo r20 camp tranquil behests at r20 (or even duo them with an r17, both of us mages) so I daresay a r40 behest would kick my r38 staff-wielding **** if I tried to solo it. xD

Personally, I think most people would say that anything 33 or higher is acceptable for a r40 behest, since that is when you can get the r40 leves. Though I hear there is no r50 behest (?), so IMHO until there are r50 behests it would be nice if people would wait a little longer than that to join r40 behests. I duo'd behest with a r49 the other day and it wasn't ideal for either of us but hey, not much to do about it and still better than soloing it anyway.

Honestly I don't think the system is set up all that great now. I always found it somewhat awkward at certain ranks, it may just be me though. At r36, I couldn't do a lot of r40 leves without help (not always available, especially at some camps), and still got good SP from r30 leves and behest, so why would I want to move on to the r40 camps? Yet many people would tell me that I should move on to r40 behests then so as not to mess up the SP for the r23 folks.
#24 Feb 10 2011 at 6:47 PM Rating: Good
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I say r33+ is acceptable. If it wasn't then they wouldn't give us new leves and encourage you to go to the next camps.
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#25 Feb 10 2011 at 10:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Honestly, I think its okay as long as they are at least 33. I realize it may kill your exp for behest(I don't like it either) but, 40 behest is very doable for a rank 33 and they also have access to 40 leves at 33. So, if they are doing leves at that camp, I don't really expect them to run over to a 30 camp just for behest.

I mean really, exp is so easy to get, you can just spend a couple minutes soloing and get that "loss" exp back that was caused by the lower rank people in behest.
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#26 Feb 10 2011 at 10:43 PM Rating: Good
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Perhaps one of these R40s should post a guide about the popular behests and the recommended rank range so we're all in the loop. I know I'd like to know when I can gtfo of Horizon/Bloodshore and Wells/Cedarwood.

As for why players in their mid R30s going to higher behests, it probably has a lot to do with them being so easy. I wonder what a group of skillful R30s would get for SP from a R40 behest, probably make more sense to go to the higher ranked behests to be honest if not for the SP then for the challenge.
#27 Feb 11 2011 at 12:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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R20 Camps -> R13 to R22 players
R30 Camps -> R23 to R32 players
R40 Camps -> R33 to R42 players

Add behest/leves somewhere else for the R43-R49 players....
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#28 Feb 11 2011 at 2:52 PM Rating: Good
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I witnessed a r1 pugilist participating in my r20 behest in horizon. It was a ridiculous sp sink. I went on with my day, but the next day, the same guy was back, as his pug, rank 10... Everyone asked why he was behesting here, or if he could change to a 25ish job. He wouldnt do it, so the group decided to boot him. He then proceeded to change to his r50 gla and demolished half of the targets himself.

I dont know if everyone in the game will be mature enough to respond to "codes of conduct" so to speak, but i wish it would happen, because its getting frustrating.

the said player is Tadakatsu Arn, on kashuan server.

he is known for doing things like this constantly.
#29 Feb 11 2011 at 3:23 PM Rating: Good
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Elionara wrote:
Threx wrote:

I've noticed that lately there have been many low ranks doing R40 behests and ruining SP party bonus for many of the higher ranks. I'm talking about ranks 30-35 people doing R40 behests. ****, as I type there is a rank 24 in the behest party at BW right now.

I realize and acknowledge that there is no minimum rank, and any player of any rank has the right to participate in any behest. But should there be an unwritten rule on decency about a minimum rank to join a certain behest? Personally, I didn't join R40 behests until I was 38+. I think 35+ is alright. 30-34 seems a bit low (and cancels out party bonus for anyone ranked 40+), 24 is just ridiculous.

As I said, I know that everyone has the right to participate...but should they?

What's your take on this matter?



R30 will not lower the SP of the R40, unless he was the only one in the party with the R30. I went with r50 to kill dobs. I was r15 archer. Solo he got 77. With me in party he got 77. With a third member in the party @r45 he got 97. SP isn't affected, he just wouldn't get the party bonus for me since I'm >5 ranks up/down from him.

Sample Party:
Member 1: 33
Member 2: 37
Member 3: 42
Member 4: 47

Because of the way the system works, only Members 2 and 3 get a party bonus based on 3 people.

Members 1 and 4 only get a bonus based on 2 people since everyone else is >5 above/below them.

Where as party of 40's with a <35 person in the party would function in that the <35 person would only get solo experience, and the others would be calcuated based on the above example.

SE made some comments on this. The R30 wouldn't ***** over the SP for the R40 it would just mean he wouldn't get a party bonus for that member, but he WOULD for other members. I posted in another thread:
http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=152&mid=1297059550177482094&page=1&howmany=50#msg1297282945105344748

edit: I know they wouldn't hit the mobs well, they will die alot, but it's just a game and isn't going to hurt you in this case.

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 8:49am by Elionara


This post looks into the actual loss of SP alleged in the OP.

WE NEED TESTING.

At what level under the level of behest do players start to suffer SP loss?

Does a R24 in R40 behest actually cause SP loss for R40+ players?

I joined a Broken Water Behest yesterday at rank 25 just to see what would happen. 20~50 SP per mob is what happened. Did I hose that SP for everyone else? I don't understand the mechanics yet.

Elionara, do you mean that the only penalty to having lower levels is they do not receive the party bonus? Then how did ny SP get to 20~50. Was it because there were level 47's in the behest?

A clear explination would probably do wonders for everyone invloved.
#30 Feb 11 2011 at 3:27 PM Rating: Good
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NayliaMR wrote:
R20 Camps -> R13 to R22 players
R30 Camps -> R23 to R32 players
R40 Camps -> R33 to R42 players

Add behest/leves somewhere else for the R43-R49 players....


Do you have any reasoning to share for these numbers? Just from experience? They look right but I'd like to know how you came up with them.

Deciding if game should force this Rank restriction on players is a secondary topic to how differing levels effect SP rewards.

Edited, Feb 11th 2011 4:28pm by RufuSwho
#31 Feb 11 2011 at 3:32 PM Rating: Good
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RufuSwho wrote:
NayliaMR wrote:
R20 Camps -> R13 to R22 players
R30 Camps -> R23 to R32 players
R40 Camps -> R33 to R42 players

Add behest/leves somewhere else for the R43-R49 players....


Do you have any reasoning to share for these numbers? Just from experience? They look right but I'd like to know how you came up with them.

Deciding if game should force this Rank restriction on players is a secondary topic to how differing levels effect SP rewards.

those are the ranks at which those camps become available to the player.
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#32 Feb 11 2011 at 3:33 PM Rating: Good
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RufuSwho wrote:
NayliaMR wrote:
R20 Camps -> R13 to R22 players
R30 Camps -> R23 to R32 players
R40 Camps -> R33 to R42 players

Add behest/leves somewhere else for the R43-R49 players....


Do you have any reasoning to share for these numbers? Just from experience? They look right but I'd like to know how you came up with them.

Deciding if game should force this Rank restriction on players is a secondary topic to how differing levels effect SP rewards.

Edited, Feb 11th 2011 4:28pm by RufuSwho


Those are the minimum rank you get the battlecraft leves for said camp. r13 unlocks r20 leves, r23 unlocks r30 leves and r33 unlocks r40 leves. Personally, I usually operate with the fieldcraft leves as my benchmark for when to join a behest at a camp which are unlocked on 15, 25, and 35 respectively but that's because I'm usually ranking DoL at the camps too.
#33 Feb 11 2011 at 4:38 PM Rating: Decent
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The Rank where Leves become available for a camp has nothing at all to do with the effect of differing Behest party member Ranks on SP gains.

It may be a good rule of thumb, but I think everyone could benefit more from actual Rank vs. Behest level SP results.
#34 Feb 11 2011 at 11:40 PM Rating: Good
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I'm all for a +5/-5 limit to behests. With the exception of the 40 ones being +9, of course.

What about preventing 50s from behests alltogether? Y/N?
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