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Crafting too much part of the game?Follow

#1 Feb 11 2011 at 6:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Right now crafting feels like 80% of the game. You need to craft to make money and to make gear, but if you just want to lvl a discipline of war class you can't because there's no cheap simple standardized gear. There should be sub par gear/weapons from 1-50 so if you just want to level a discipline of war class, so you're not getting the crap beaten out of you with level 6 weapon/armor at 20. Where the game sits right now there's not enough population to sustain a fair and equal price for the gear sold. Even if you save up the money from levequest it doesn't equal out the price of one piece of armor someone or a NPC is selling.
#2 Feb 11 2011 at 6:10 AM Rating: Decent
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tc2982 wrote:
Even if you save up the money from levequest it doesn't equal out the price of one piece of armor someone or a NPC is selling.


Stop trying to buy R50/NM gears at R1.
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#3 Feb 11 2011 at 6:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Khornette wrote:
tc2982 wrote:
Even if you save up the money from levequest it doesn't equal out the price of one piece of armor someone or a NPC is selling.


Stop trying to buy R50/NM gears at R1.


stop trolling.
im lvl 15, and i have hard times finding my equips, crafting i can forget about it...
On the market, well i try to find random stuff cheap but still, im missing about 40% of my equips...
Having a NPC with basic gears will be nice, they do have some, but not what i need or can buy, i dont know yet how much repair cost via npc or crafting
#4 Feb 11 2011 at 7:04 AM Rating: Good
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I actually do not see the problem either.

When the game was new, there were less mobs and more people competing for them. Yet we were all still able to easily make money. At the end of week 2 I had a million.

The only armour I bought from an NPC was lvl 9 bronze armour for 40K which is a rip off.

Given the fact the wards were horrendous to use then with no search function, I still managed to buy all the items I needed. I will grant it took a very long time though. We also paid way more for crafted armour then than we are now - Iron Hauby 500k not any more lol

Sadly, this is an FF game and they are crafter focused.

I am however amazed that you are currently having a problem getting gear. On our server Uldah currently seems to be the hub and people treat it like jeuno. I suspect the same is also true for your server.

I would check the wards there, never use the repair npc and place things on retainer in repair wards.

Also, try shouting for a crafter i'm sure you will get a reply
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#5 Feb 11 2011 at 7:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Sell some Shards and Crystals, in particular those you don't urgently need for crafting. That piles up money in an instant, and you can easilly get more from mobs.
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#6 Feb 11 2011 at 7:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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tc2982 wrote:
Right now crafting feels like 80% of the game.


The other 20% is farming up the mats for the crafting. I got burnt out by crafting/farming so I took a break. I'm still on that break. :D
#7 Feb 11 2011 at 8:39 AM Rating: Decent
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tc2982 wrote:
Right now crafting feels like 80% of the game. You need to craft to make money and to make gear, but if you just want to lvl a discipline of war class you can't because there's no cheap simple standardized gear. There should be sub par gear/weapons from 1-50 so if you just want to level a discipline of war class, so you're not getting the crap beaten out of you with level 6 weapon/armor at 20. Where the game sits right now there's not enough population to sustain a fair and equal price for the gear sold. Even if you save up the money from levequest it doesn't equal out the price of one piece of armor someone or a NPC is selling.


have you actually played ffxiv? I have no craft above 16. I only level two jobs: thaumaturge and marauder. How much gil do I have? 5 million.


Edited, Feb 11th 2011 9:40am by MajidahSihaam
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#8 Feb 11 2011 at 9:15 AM Rating: Decent
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MajidahSihaam wrote:
tc2982 wrote:
Right now crafting feels like 80% of the game. You need to craft to make money and to make gear, but if you just want to lvl a discipline of war class you can't because there's no cheap simple standardized gear. There should be sub par gear/weapons from 1-50 so if you just want to level a discipline of war class, so you're not getting the crap beaten out of you with level 6 weapon/armor at 20. Where the game sits right now there's not enough population to sustain a fair and equal price for the gear sold. Even if you save up the money from levequest it doesn't equal out the price of one piece of armor someone or a NPC is selling.


have you actually played ffxiv? I have no craft above 16. I only level two jobs: thaumaturge and marauder. How much gil do I have? 5 million.


Edited, Feb 11th 2011 9:40am by MajidahSihaam


I agree. you do not HAVE to craft but this game makes crafting more then a side job you must admitt. So it is more important and people just dont like it. i think since i have NEVER crafted before in my life in any MMO but this game i have lots of jobs (crafts) near 30 that SE did a great thing. not only do i have lots of fighting jobs to rank i can also rank up crafting and know that it will make me money. thats a lot of replayability which is what a MMO is suppose to bring.

I think SE has found a balance. its certainly not 80-20 thats a huge exaggeration but it actually helps a lot to rank up some crafts. First game that crafting is importanat IMO and thats not all that bad

Lastly you can get to rank 30 craft easy for FREE in this game by just keeping up with local leves. Crafting plays a bigger role in this game but they also give you the means which to rank it. I dont see it as being a huge problem. Then you can also not craft like lots have and use the menders ward when you log off. its simple and easy.
#9 Feb 11 2011 at 9:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Same here. I startted crafting for the simple reason that I didn't want to pay for repairs
indefinitely. I don't like it. But I feel it's sort of a requirement.
Possibly I'm wrong, but it somehow feels like that.
#10 Feb 11 2011 at 10:15 AM Rating: Good
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I actually do feel like the crafting system is a bit over-done in the game. I'm sure some like it more than others, but it's a little too complex for my tastes. I can sort of understand where the OP is coming from. When I first started, I was a little annoyed at the repair system. I know SE said it wants to change the rate at which durability is lost in some upcoming patches, but I actually don't like the idea of durability at all. It probably comes from being spoiled by FFXI, where one could resell armor and weapons through the auction house when they were done using them. For example, the Seer's set, or the Eisen set. Both were very useful for a decent amount of levels. But once I got the upgrades, I liked being able to sell them back and get money, (sometimes even a profit depending on the market), for the next set I wanted to buy. It's possible to do this in XIV, but items can only be sold or traded at 100% durability. Honestly, my gear deteriorates so quickly that I don't even bother to repair it anymore. (This frustrates my Gladiator friend, because he can't quite get away with that. I know that makes me gimpy, but as long as I heal him, I doubt he'll really care). I just feel like the ease in trading gear made for a smoother game. (For the record, I'm not complaining about "auction house." For all intensive purposes, we have an equivalent, and I'm happy as can be with it). The very basic point is that I didn't have to be distracted by a blatant time-sink. I could play the game and be happy and cheerful completing all the other, less obvious time sinks. (Isn't that what an MMO really is anyway? I guess as long as it's interesting and shiny, I'll have fun!)

What does bother me about the crafting system is how much attention one has to pay to it. I realize many think this is a great feature, as it adds some actual skill to crafting. A mini-game in an MMO is kind of a neat idea. But I felt it wore out its "neat" factor after about the tenth synthesis. It was a cool idea, but I don't think it was executed in a great way. I think when it comes to any MMO, crafting is a side-job. It's a chore we do to either make some extra money, or make something better for ourselves. I don't think it was meant to be a "class" that could be leveled like any other class. I appreciate that the crafting system isn't quite as ridiculous as FFXI, (moon phase, day of week, direction faced), but I still feel like it could have been a lot better. I'm sure some people will read this to be, "I want things handed to me." Please don't. What I'm really trying to say is that I am playing the game to have adventures in strange places with new friends that I meet along the way. I think the crafting system takes far too much time away from actually playing the game. I want to be able to run to town, make a new staff or repair my old one, and get back to the front lines. The crafting system as is simply takes away from the other, more fun parts of the game. That's just my opinion....

But I wonder: Does anyone else feel like the crafting system is too cumbersome? I feel like SE decided that players obviously love to repetitively craft objects that can be used by another craft to make something else that can eventually become a finished product, rather than explore a vivid fantasy world with interesting and unique geographical features, flora, and fauna, (and mobs!)

I just wonder who down at SE came up with this fantastically elaborate way to get players to stop leveling jobs that could see actual content, (har-har...), by making the game focus so much on crafting. I've always felt crafting was a side-job. But someone was actually creative enough to get me to believe that it should actually be a main goal.... Huh.

Obviously, this becomes less true with the advent of content, and the recent changes to the SP mechanics. But I still feel that crafting was made in such a complex way that "supports player communication," (which I seem to hear that most people just level multiple crafts to avoid the hassle anyway...), that it really does require an abnormal amount of time from the player. The game was advertised as catering to a "causal" gaming audience. This crafting system is anything but. Sure, you could make a few parts in a couple of minutes. But how long does it take to get the parts from other crafts if they aren't being sold / being gouged on the Market House?

Side-rant: I was leveling alchemy in Ul'dah, and I have a Rank 1 leve, and I have to deliver it to Camp Bluefog. This would be fine if it weren't for the scary birds and scorpions that are still red to me at rank 30.... Why would you do this to me SE? Don't you love me anymore?

All in all, I am avoiding the crafting system. For the OP: it is still possible to make a decent amount of money through gathering, or farming monsters. And honestly, leves, behest, and quests give enough money that it shouldn't be an issue. Even if you run out of leves, or there are too many people doing behest in your level bracket, you can go off and find a nice camp. Collect a few bits of hide, and sell them to the leather workers. (Or whatever else you find, to the appropriate crafter).

And if that doesn't work out, you can always Taru-taru dance for money....
#11 Feb 11 2011 at 10:32 AM Rating: Good
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OP, I'm confused why you can't afford NPC armor. If you do 8 leve quests, you can make about 40k gil with gil rewards alone. Add in junk drops that you sell to NPC, crafting drops that you sell in the wards, and shards that sell very fast in the wards, you can easily make over 50k gil per leve reset. That's enough for any piece of rank 10ish gear. Two or Three leve resets are enough for any rank 20ish piece of gear. And that's just leve quests. Try farming marmots for their furs if you want quick cash, they NPC for almost 500 gil each. Affording NPC gear isn't too hard, you just need to put some effort into it.

The reason crafters don't make low rank gear is because it's not worth the time, especially since most people use rank 20+ gear on their rank 1 character anyhow. I could make rank 30 gear for 50k and earn skill points as a bonus, or make rank 10 gear for 10k and earn no skill points. It's not really a hard choice.
#12 Feb 11 2011 at 10:38 AM Rating: Good
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I love crafting, it makes the pain go away XD
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#13 Feb 11 2011 at 10:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Not the pain in my "standard synth" thumb.

Edited, Feb 11th 2011 11:49am by Rinsui
#14 Feb 11 2011 at 11:01 AM Rating: Decent
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602 posts
Once they rehaul the entire crafting UI I'll craft more.
Currently its not so much as I hate crafting, but I hate having to go through like ten windows for each single craft.
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FFXIV: Majidah Sihaam. (Besaid)
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#15 Feb 11 2011 at 11:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm the kind of person who always tries to level like every tradeskill in a game. So I absolutely love crafting. It's actually one of the major draws this game has for me. Imagine a game where the stuff I crafted is actually needed! I do agree with some of the previous posters that the UI is overly complicated and they can stand to shorten the amount of windows I have to click through each time. But isn't a new UI what they are working on right now anyway?

I am pretty new to this game, I just came back to playing it a couple weeks ago. I also had a lot of trouble finding gear to level my archer. On Besaid I've been trying to sell some low level gear to help out with this problem, but as it stands now, there is not a lot to buy under 30. Once the game gets more balanced, there will be more people and more things to buy, but right now, there's isn't a lot to buy for a new person and it can be a little frustrating.

Also some advice for the OP, eventually I did find some decent level 19 gear. I just had to keep checking the Ul'dah market ward. It might also not be a bad thing to just see if someone would be interested in trading the necessary materials for the item you want. The number one reason why a heavy emphasis on crafting is a good thing in a game is that it drives the player economy. It forces us to buy and sell from each other (instead of just doing that one dungeon over and over until our item drops) and it forces us to talk and do business with each other.
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#16 Feb 11 2011 at 12:09 PM Rating: Good
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This is not such a big problem when the market wards are working properly. Since the market wards stopped crashing all the time, it's become a lot easier to do shopping at a variety of ranks. So hopefully you can now find your rank appropriate gear. When the wards suck and get reset and boot the retainers it can be difficult and feels like you need to craft.

If you're on Lindblum I'd be happy to make you r10-r25 weapons or tools.
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#17 Feb 11 2011 at 12:18 PM Rating: Good
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It could just be my Linkshell, but I would think that a more active linkshell that includes crafters would alleviate most of the repair pains. But from my experience crafting and gil making, while can go hand in hand, don't have to. Battle leves give so much gil that it doesn't take much effort at all to make 1 million gil. And considering the price of armor from either NPCs or the wards, by rank 20 you should be able to afford decent armor and weapons without any issue.

I am currently holding at 1 million gil simply because every time I hit the 1 mill mark, I go on a buying spree, and spend about 1/2 of it on either a new set of armor, or some crafting ingredients.

With that being said, I do agree that right now, the art of getting an item repaired can be a pain. Especially since we (and maybe it's just me) don't have a good handle on the cost of some of the goods outside of personal expectations (I imagine non-crafters have even less of an understanding).
#18 Feb 11 2011 at 12:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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no...

I just got a new dodoskin subligar for 10K, a canvas shepherds tunic for like 30K, a dodoskin shepherds belt +1 for 10K, etc. That is less money than I would get in a round of R20 leves - and it is almost an entire outfit! It is a few ranks above my PUG but not so much that I worry about it.

I dunno, I never have much trouble finding gears. When I don't see something I want for sale - I go online - look up the recipe, gather the mats and pay a crafter to make whatever I can't make myself. Even if that means taking bronze nugs to a blacksmith to make me nails or whatever. I do the work tracking down the mats and crafters.

I spent about 3 hours one night getting stuff together and seeking crafters for a canvas acton. I could have waited (I've seen them on the market since then) but I wanted one immediately so I did the leg work.

To be honest, given the lack of content in the game, working to get gears made has actually been one of the few things that leaves me with a sense of accomplishment. (Yes, that is a problem - I realize that there needs to be more things that offer a sense of accomplishment in the game if it is to survive in the long run)

I like crafting because it is a nice thing to do while waiting for behest or for people to arrive to do leves or just at lunch time when I don't have a lot else going on. I think one of the things this game does well is giving us lots of things to squeeze into those less productive minutes.
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#19 Feb 11 2011 at 7:57 PM Rating: Good
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Crafting is one of the things that keeps me playing. I like the game as it is and I like then potential it still has and hopefully will use in the future. But the major thing is, crafting isd ahuge part of the economy, and this is why I enjoy it that much.

There are not even a hand full of MMORPGs out there that have such a huge "neccesity" for crafts, as FFXI and XIV do. And I like it...I like the fact that most of the current equipment, or rather each piece, is crafted, not dropped.
I wouldn't mind if later endgame mobs drop finished items, but right now, the huge dependancy on crafting is a huge plus for me.

PS: If you have trouble finding equip for your rank, just send a tell to a crafter high enough to synth the stuff you need, get the mats(or at least the raw materials to let the crafter turn them into the mats) and I can promise you, you will have your gear in a matter of hours.
#20 Feb 11 2011 at 9:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Shezard wrote:

PS: If you have trouble finding equip for your rank, just send a tell to a crafter high enough to synth the stuff you need, get the mats(or at least the raw materials to let the crafter turn them into the mats) and I can promise you, you will have your gear in a matter of hours.


This is utterly true.

And I've found most crafters are pretty happy to help you out. I've never had anyone demand a price for anything - for the most part people will argue if you try to offer them any substatial reward.

It is actually funny, when I was trying to make my canvas acton I shouted for awhile - I was having trouble finding yellow cotton cloth - I bought the moss and made the dye myself because there was none on the market - then I called for a crafter to make the yellow cloth. Someone hailed me right away - they were way overranked for the synth, but they did it anyway then they did the sleeves (which I had all the parts for) and asked for nothing in return (I traded them a bunch of lightning crystals for the synth as my tip).

Anyway after all that was done someone sent me a bunch of tells offering to do the synth (which was already done) for free. They were quite insistent and I almost felt bad telling them I didn't need the synth anymore. I mean the person was totally excited about helping me. It was awesome.

Well I got a wolf hide and some formic acid (I needed wolf fur for the synth and none was on the market) and shouted for a leatherworker. The weaver who made my sleeves and yellow cotton cloth replied and offered to do the next step - and the chestguard synth and the final acton synth.

And they did. Again - they asked nothing for the synth and I tipped them with a bunch of lightning crystals.

I guess what I am trying to say is that crafters have always been pretty willing to help me - but I always try to show respect to them for doing so.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#21 Feb 13 2011 at 1:03 AM Rating: Good
2 posts
Looks like I was wrong I wasn't looking in the right places for gear. I got the game when it first came out and stopped playing for awhile for them to update it and was unaware Ul'dah became the Jeuno/WG of this game. Found good equipment at good prices and I'm now geared.

Also wanted to add that I do enjoy the crafting system it's unique, fun, and sometimes intense. It was just a bit more daunting when I thought I had to craft to level the jobs I wanted.

Thanks for everyone who replied, if you didn't I don't know how much longer I would've be playing.
#22 Feb 13 2011 at 11:49 AM Rating: Decent
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120 posts
Heartflame wrote:
I actually do feel like the crafting system is a bit over-done in the game. I'm sure some like it more than others, but it's a little too complex for my tastes. I can sort of understand where the OP is coming from. When I first started, I was a little annoyed at the repair system. I know SE said it wants to change the rate at which durability is lost in some upcoming patches, but I actually don't like the idea of durability at all. It probably comes from being spoiled by FFXI, where one could resell armor and weapons through the auction house when they were done using them. For example, the Seer's set, or the Eisen set. Both were very useful for a decent amount of levels. But once I got the upgrades, I liked being able to sell them back and get money, (sometimes even a profit depending on the market), for the next set I wanted to buy. It's possible to do this in XIV, but items can only be sold or traded at 100% durability. Honestly, my gear deteriorates so quickly that I don't even bother to repair it anymore. (This frustrates my Gladiator friend, because he can't quite get away with that. I know that makes me gimpy, but as long as I heal him, I doubt he'll really care). I just feel like the ease in trading gear made for a smoother game. (For the record, I'm not complaining about "auction house." For all intensive purposes, we have an equivalent, and I'm happy as can be with it). The very basic point is that I didn't have to be distracted by a blatant time-sink. I could play the game and be happy and cheerful completing all the other, less obvious time sinks. (Isn't that what an MMO really is anyway? I guess as long as it's interesting and shiny, I'll have fun!)

What does bother me about the crafting system is how much attention one has to pay to it. I realize many think this is a great feature, as it adds some actual skill to crafting. A mini-game in an MMO is kind of a neat idea. But I felt it wore out its "neat" factor after about the tenth synthesis. It was a cool idea, but I don't think it was executed in a great way. I think when it comes to any MMO, crafting is a side-job. It's a chore we do to either make some extra money, or make something better for ourselves. I don't think it was meant to be a "class" that could be leveled like any other class. I appreciate that the crafting system isn't quite as ridiculous as FFXI, (moon phase, day of week, direction faced), but I still feel like it could have been a lot better. I'm sure some people will read this to be, "I want things handed to me." Please don't. What I'm really trying to say is that I am playing the game to have adventures in strange places with new friends that I meet along the way. I think the crafting system takes far too much time away from actually playing the game. I want to be able to run to town, make a new staff or repair my old one, and get back to the front lines. The crafting system as is simply takes away from the other, more fun parts of the game. That's just my opinion....

But I wonder: Does anyone else feel like the crafting system is too cumbersome? I feel like SE decided that players obviously love to repetitively craft objects that can be used by another craft to make something else that can eventually become a finished product, rather than explore a vivid fantasy world with interesting and unique geographical features, flora, and fauna, (and mobs!)

I just wonder who down at SE came up with this fantastically elaborate way to get players to stop leveling jobs that could see actual content, (har-har...), by making the game focus so much on crafting. I've always felt crafting was a side-job. But someone was actually creative enough to get me to believe that it should actually be a main goal.... Huh.

Obviously, this becomes less true with the advent of content, and the recent changes to the SP mechanics. But I still feel that crafting was made in such a complex way that "supports player communication," (which I seem to hear that most people just level multiple crafts to avoid the hassle anyway...), that it really does require an abnormal amount of time from the player. The game was advertised as catering to a "causal" gaming audience. This crafting system is anything but. Sure, you could make a few parts in a couple of minutes. But how long does it take to get the parts from other crafts if they aren't being sold / being gouged on the Market House?

Side-rant: I was leveling alchemy in Ul'dah, and I have a Rank 1 leve, and I have to deliver it to Camp Bluefog. This would be fine if it weren't for the scary birds and scorpions that are still red to me at rank 30.... Why would you do this to me SE? Don't you love me anymore?

All in all, I am avoiding the crafting system. For the OP: it is still possible to make a decent amount of money through gathering, or farming monsters. And honestly, leves, behest, and quests give enough money that it shouldn't be an issue. Even if you run out of leves, or there are too many people doing behest in your level bracket, you can go off and find a nice camp. Collect a few bits of hide, and sell them to the leather workers. (Or whatever else you find, to the appropriate crafter).

And if that doesn't work out, you can always Taru-taru dance for money....


Of course crafting is overdone in the game. I know this game is gonna go over serious changes and I remember someone saying something like "If you like that game currently the way it is know, your idea of fun is false" and I agree. I'm not saying crafting should be put away, I enjoy crafting myself but like I said last time, you gotta look at the game in a pessimists point of view. Will it attract the casual players? Will it bring back the old people who quit? Will it attack the PS3 people? Also PS3 release is the chance to revive FF14 am I right? Al though it's hard to win this argument because people playing this game at the moment and going through this forum probably loves this game or has high hopes. But people don't look at both sides of the coin in disussions like this. They say "Oh I like it so go F yourself" or "Then don't play the game" Well keep that up and let's see how FF14 is in PS3 release. I have high hopes for this game. And speak your god **** mind people! I'm getting tired of people who are like "I dont wanna get rated down because my avatar's E-Reputation will be bad boo hoo" It's a video game forum people.

Like I said, I have high hopes for this game and I'm loving this new director. Will this game make a come back? I hope so. Atm this game is just like what IGN said at the beginning of release: "It's not fun, it's work"


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