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Poll: Repair systemFollow

#1 Feb 11 2011 at 2:00 PM Rating: Good
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Based on this thread. Someone wanted a poll and I'm on the case.

Which of these most closely resembles your opinion on durability/repairs?
I dislike it and think it should be completely removed. No amount of changes or fixes would be enough for me to want it around in any capacity.:60 (31.2%)
I dislike it and I think it needs a lot of work/major overhauls before I would be willing to just deal with it.:26 (13.5%)
I dislike it, but with work/overhauls, I might like it. :25 (13.0%)
I don't dislike or like it; it is tolerable. No amount of changes will alter my opinion.:5 (2.6%)
I don't dislike or like it; it is tolerable. With changes, I might like it.:34 (17.7%)
I like it as-is, but with changes, I might end up thinking it's great.:32 (16.7%)
I like it as-is and do not want to see it changed at all.:10 (5.2%)
Total:192
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#2 Feb 11 2011 at 2:01 PM Rating: Decent
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I hate to say it, but polls like this do not work. You already know the results before you put it up.

Given a choice between not having to ever repair, and having to deal with repairs, in ANY game, players will go with what benefits them, and that is not ever having to deal with a repair system.

Its like saying "hey im hungry, i need food" And being mad that you have to pay for it. If givenm the choice to never be hungry again and not having to deal with it(or having it always be free)....would you take that option or continue to pay for food?

Edited, Feb 11th 2011 12:04pm by Vedis
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#3 Feb 11 2011 at 2:04 PM Rating: Good
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Vedis wrote:
I hate to say it, but polls like this do not work. You already know the results before you put it up.

Given a choice between not having to ever repair, and having to deal with repairs, in ANY game, players will go with what benefits them, and that is not ever having to deal with a repair system.


It would seem that two people have voted for the bottom option already, so at least some people do like the repair system.

And if it's true that it's a system that players won't want to deal with, shouldn't that indicate that the system needs to be fixed in such a way that players -will- want to deal with it?
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#4 Feb 11 2011 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good
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I still think your polls really just obscure the options with redundant answers and never clearly show where the playerbase stands on it. You can bet that if changes are made they will either be nominal or drastic - it would nice to see how folks divide up without watering down the choices so heavily.
#5 Feb 11 2011 at 2:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Torrence wrote:
I still think your polls really just obscure the options with redundant answers and never clearly show where the playerbase stands on it. You can bet that if changes are made they will either be nominal or drastic - it would nice to see how folks divide up without watering down the choices so heavily.


I like to do multiple options in incremental variations where each one is slightly different, because if I just water it down to "I like it" and "I don't like it" then you don't factor in how strongly people feel about their choice. For example, I would note a major difference between the first two options or even the last three in terms of opinion.
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#6 Feb 11 2011 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
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But look at the results now - 1,1,0,1,1,3

How does that give us meaningful data on whether or not changes *really* need to be made to the system?

Edit: Fewer options means people really need to think about where they are placing their vote and where they stand.

Edited, Feb 11th 2011 3:13pm by Torrence
#7 Feb 11 2011 at 2:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Torrence wrote:
But look at the results now - 1,1,0,1,1,3

How does that give us meaningful data on whether or not changes *really* need to be made to the system?

Edit: Fewer options means people really need to think about where they are placing their vote and where they stand.

Edited, Feb 11th 2011 3:13pm by Torrence


This^^
#8 Feb 11 2011 at 2:17 PM Rating: Decent
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This is kind of silly poll in a way, I think.

It's like asking whether people think losing exp for dying in XI is "great" or whether you "like it". It's a system to balance the game's various mechanics, not to please the players.

Granted, it needs work before I think it'll be balanced for what it's trying to accomplish vs. what amount of inconvenience it brings to the playerbase.
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#9 Feb 11 2011 at 2:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think the replies will vary with overall playtime/experience, as well as personal experience with the "Seek Repairs" icon.

I'm not really sure what to answer. For a time, I avoided FFXIV all together in an effort to stop repairing my items so often (which is boring anyway you cut it). But after putting a couple items into "Seek Repair" and having them fixed so quickly - meh, not so big an issue.

However, casual players may not get past the initial "this sucks" phase. So it can't be ignored as an irritant if you are looking to provide casual users with a consistantly fun experience. More experienced players I think see this as a non-issue or a minor inconvenience.

Specifically, allowing player to repair without unequipping, AND players to Seek Repairs without unequipping, would probably be the end of it.

That said, I have no experience trying to repair a level 45 anything. A separate poll for high level players and casual players would be very interesting.

Edited, Feb 11th 2011 3:23pm by RufuSwho
#10 Feb 11 2011 at 2:23 PM Rating: Good
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Torrence wrote:
But look at the results now - 1,1,0,1,1,3

How does that give us meaningful data on whether or not changes *really* need to be made to the system?

Edit: Fewer options means people really need to think about where they are placing their vote and where they stand.

Edited, Feb 11th 2011 3:13pm by Torrence


You wait until we have 100+ votes, not 10 :P the data doesn't take shape until you have a larger sample size.
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#11 Feb 11 2011 at 2:25 PM Rating: Good
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RufuSwho wrote:
I think the replies will vary with overall playtime/experience, as well as personal experience with the "Seek Repairs" icon.

I'm not really sure what to answer. For a time, I avoided FFXIV all together in an effort to stop repairing my items so often (which is boring anyway you cut it). But after putting a couple items into "Seek Repair" and having them fixed so quickly - meh, not so big an issue.

However, casual players may not get past the initial "this sucks" phase. So it can't be ignored as an irritant if you are looking to provide casual users with a consistantly fun experience. More experienced players I think see this as a non-issue or a minor inconvenience.

Specifically, allowing player to repair without unequipping, AND players to Seek Repairs without unequipping, would probably be the end of it.

That said, I have no experience trying to repair a level 45 anything. A separate poll for high level players and casual players would be very interesting.

Edited, Feb 11th 2011 3:23pm by RufuSwho


Im 50 and its the same ****.
#12 Feb 11 2011 at 2:37 PM Rating: Good
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It's not looking much different at 26 votes - 4,2,6,1,5,3,4

It's about even on both sides of the spectrum so we can either assume from this that it's a 50/50 split, or some people are making choices that they maybe would not have made had the poll forced them into taking a solid one side or the other.
#13 Feb 11 2011 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
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dnored wrote:

Im 50 and its the same sh*t.


Haha! Anything you have trouble finding repairs for? Some hard to obtain repair item required for essential equip?
#14 Feb 11 2011 at 2:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Torrence wrote:
It's not looking much different at 26 votes - 4,2,6,1,5,3,4

It's about even on both sides of the spectrum so we can either assume from this that it's a 50/50 split, or some people are making choices that they maybe would not have made had the poll forced them into taking a solid one side or the other.

I don't know, regardless of the plethora of options, the results look pretty polarized to me. With half saying they like it, half saying they dislike it, to varying degrees. There may be some ambiguity between the extremes of like and dislike, but if you just distill it down to the two extremes, the poll results are already pretty interesting.
#15 Feb 11 2011 at 2:58 PM Rating: Decent
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RufuSwho wrote:
dnored wrote:

Im 50 and its the same sh*t.


Haha! Anything you have trouble finding repairs for? Some hard to obtain repair item required for essential equip?


nope not really. Or i should say not that i own anyway. and i only carry one weapon. all you have to do is put your stuff up in the menders ward when you log. im telling you this is the best ward ever! not only for items that need repairs but for crafters as well! i walk in with my BSM and get like 15k every hour or so. People need to use their retainers better and the menders ward better then mab all the ******** will stop (wishfull thinking i know). Useing retainers for repairs is awesome.^^
#16 Feb 11 2011 at 2:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Putting aside whether people like the system or hate the system it seems (at least from the results so far) that everyone can agree that with tweaks/changes they might learn to tolerate/like the repair system.
#17 Feb 11 2011 at 2:59 PM Rating: Good
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A factor I failed to consider in my poll, one that occurs to me now, is that it doesn't take into account whether someone is able to repair or not. It might stand to reason that whether or not you can repair your own stuff or other peoples' stuff would affect your opinion on the system as well.
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#18 Feb 11 2011 at 3:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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I voted for dislike, but with overhauls it would be good.

I know that every MMO needs a penalty for death or for doing too much [insert class activity here], but it's a little too unintuitive and awkward in its current state. I also understand the reasoning behind only crafters being able to repair to 100%.

Perhaps if NPCs were allowed to repair to 100%, and then crafters allowed to repair to 125% using only one, single generic repair item X, it would be miles better. Or, simply allow crafters to create temporary item enhancements, like "Armor Plating - Absorbs X incoming damage" and we won't need to use crafters to repair items.
#19 Feb 11 2011 at 3:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
A factor I failed to consider in my poll, one that occurs to me now, is that it doesn't take into account whether someone is able to repair or not. It might stand to reason that whether or not you can repair your own stuff or other peoples' stuff would affect your opinion on the system as well.


There's so many avenues to get stuff repaired that I think this might be a non-issue. As a previous poster mentioned, there's a whole ward dedicated to repairs, and generally most crafters will make a trip or two through that ward to repair gear. Also, I haven't had much trouble putting my stuff up for repair at camps along with an appropriate amount of gil/crystal/shards as a reward. If it's a rare repair mat, I'll usually put it up for sale in my bazaar and factor that into my repair reward.

Also, most people that belong to an LS will have at least a couple people who craft and can repair your gear---even better if you grind/leve-link with them. Then there is the option to rank up a craft on your own to repair gear. And as a last resort you can always use the NPC Repair which isn't advisable since they really like to gouge prices.
#20 Feb 11 2011 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
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SylOdinsdottir wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
A factor I failed to consider in my poll, one that occurs to me now, is that it doesn't take into account whether someone is able to repair or not. It might stand to reason that whether or not you can repair your own stuff or other peoples' stuff would affect your opinion on the system as well.


There's so many avenues to get stuff repaired that I think this might be a non-issue. As a previous poster mentioned, there's a whole ward dedicated to repairs, and generally most crafters will make a trip or two through that ward to repair gear. Also, I haven't had much trouble putting my stuff up for repair at camps along with an appropriate amount of gil/crystal/shards as a reward. If it's a rare repair mat, I'll usually put it up for sale in my bazaar and factor that into my repair reward.

Also, most people that belong to an LS will have at least a couple people who craft and can repair your gear---even better if you grind/leve-link with them. Then there is the option to rank up a craft on your own to repair gear. And as a last resort you can always use the NPC Repair which isn't advisable since they really like to gouge prices.


You're right, but it still doesn't detract from the fact that you have to go actively looking for someone to do the repair and you can't use your item until you find someone; it's not as simple as going to an NPC and clicking "Repair All" or I'm sure there wouldn't be as many complaining. It's the inconvenience of having to unequip the weapon or carry an extra weapon, then find someone to repair it or wait for them to find you, that seems to be the common complaint.
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#21 Feb 11 2011 at 3:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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I like the repair system. I think that weapons receive damage way too fast and it could be made more convenient to offer materials to to repairer, but i like how it gives a consistent level of importance to the crafting jobs and consumable items used for repair will always help keep the economy moving.
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#22 Feb 11 2011 at 3:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
You're right, but it still doesn't detract from the fact that you have to go actively looking for someone to do the repair and you can't use your item until you find someone; it's not as simple as going to an NPC and clicking "Repair All" or I'm sure there wouldn't be as many complaining. It's the inconvenience of having to unequip the weapon or carry an extra weapon, then find someone to repair it or wait for them to find you, that seems to be the common complaint.


Oh no doubt. I swear half the people complaining wouldn't complain if items could be repaired without having to go through the extra hassle of unequipping the item, putting it up in the bazaar/swapping to the craft class and selecting 'repair' from you inventory. Then making sure you have inventory space if you put it in your bazaar and clearing up space if you don't.

#23 Feb 11 2011 at 3:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Also I foresee the current system becoming a huge hindrance once very difficult content is brought into the game.

When your LS/Company is going to spend a whole night attempting a new boss or wiping, your gear is going to break. A lot. Running back to town is not going to be efficient at all. Neither is bringing a bunch of crafters to repair your gear on the spot, because of how many materials will be needed and how many DIFFERENT materials will be needed. And if your high quality/rare gear is going to require high quality/rare materials to repair, god help you.
#24 Feb 11 2011 at 3:45 PM Rating: Default
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so your trying to take into account people who play the game have jobs ranked up? How can you come to understand that if you do not play? I no i said i would not post to you ever but you asked in the last thread why is rank important and you answered your own question.

Not to start another debate (cause i just wont answer if you start to insult me again) but Im sorry but people who play the game have more weight to me then people who have not played since it dropped IMHO. Your allowed to post in threads because its a free world but if you have little experience in it you should not act like you know everything. Mab just mab if you took the time to use some of these systems you will enjoy it a little more.

You can write back i will read it but if you go crazy again dont expect a reply. Believe it or not im looking for a honest debate not a scream fest.
#25 Feb 11 2011 at 3:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
A factor I failed to consider in my poll, one that occurs to me now, is that it doesn't take into account whether someone is able to repair or not. It might stand to reason that whether or not you can repair your own stuff or other peoples' stuff would affect your opinion on the system as well.



so your trying to take into account people who play the game have jobs ranked up? How can you come to understand that if you do not play? I no i said i would not post to you ever but you asked in the last thread why is rank important and you answered your own question.

Not to start another debate (cause i just wont answer if you start to insult me again) but Im sorry but people who play the game have more weight to me then people who have not played since it dropped IMHO. Your allowed to post in threads because its a free world but if you have little experience in it you should not act like you know everything. Mab just mab if you took the time to use some of these systems you will enjoy it a little more.

You can write back i will read it but if you go crazy again dont expect a reply. Believe it or not im looking for a honest debate not a scream fest.

sorry for double post
#26 Feb 11 2011 at 3:47 PM Rating: Good
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Wolfums wrote:
Also I foresee the current system becoming a huge hindrance once very difficult content is brought into the game.

When your LS/Company is going to spend a whole night attempting a new boss or wiping, your gear is going to break. A lot. Running back to town is not going to be efficient at all. Neither is bringing a bunch of crafters to repair your gear on the spot, because of how many materials will be needed and how many DIFFERENT materials will be needed. And if your high quality/rare gear is going to require high quality/rare materials to repair, god help you.


Ah that is true, but the posts in Lodestone seem to indicate a large amount of fixes and tweaks to the rate of decline for a gear's durability as well as fixes to the repair system so it should hopefully be a lot better by then. I've found that a lot of mats can repair multiple tools/gear and there aren't that many weapons/armours/accessories that requires really specialized repair mats. Most of the high end gear and tools require the same basic square, ring, nugget, branch, or glue to repair as low ranked gear.

And you can always use down times between pops to repair at camp. With a lot of people choosing to rank both a craft job and a battle job it's not that far fetched that someone will be able to repair you gear. I'm not saying it's practical and efficient, but it's not like the system is so difficult to work with that people can't adapt.
#27 Feb 11 2011 at 3:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Wolfums wrote:
Also I foresee the current system becoming a huge hindrance once very difficult content is brought into the game.

When your LS/Company is going to spend a whole night attempting a new boss or wiping, your gear is going to break. A lot. Running back to town is not going to be efficient at all. Neither is bringing a bunch of crafters to repair your gear on the spot, because of how many materials will be needed and how many DIFFERENT materials will be needed. And if your high quality/rare gear is going to require high quality/rare materials to repair, god help you.


Good idea but i dont think it works that way. If you fight he same mob for an hour i think the weapons do not wear intill after the battle. i could be wrong but i have not repaired gear on my rank 50 MRD for 3 weeks cause all i do is fight NMS twice a week with it. Before the battle it was 100% but a half hour later it was 98% whereas if i do 6 leves in the same amount of time im almost at 80% lol.

Dont scream at me people if you find something esle but this is what i found. i never ever saw in the middle of a battle "so and so gear is damaged" only get that message after the battle but i could be wrong.
#28 Feb 11 2011 at 4:03 PM Rating: Good
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SylOdinsdottir wrote:
Ah that is true, but the posts in Lodestone seem to indicate a large amount of fixes and tweaks to the rate of decline for a gear's durability as well as fixes to the repair system so it should hopefully be a lot better by then. I've found that a lot of mats can repair multiple tools/gear and there aren't that many weapons/armours/accessories that requires really specialized repair mats. Most of the high end gear and tools require the same basic square, ring, nugget, branch, or glue to repair as low ranked gear.

And you can always use down times between pops to repair at camp. With a lot of people choosing to rank both a craft job and a battle job it's not that far fetched that someone will be able to repair you gear. I'm not saying it's practical and efficient, but it's not like the system is so difficult to work with that people can't adapt.


True about multiple people having multiple crafting classes. But my concern was more about when/if Limbus/Dynamis/Salvage type content is added. You know, the kind that's action packed from the first minute to the last minute; where you don't really have a chance to take your time to run back to repair and/or switch classes or whatever. Also when/if quested gear ala AF armor is introduced, and if it requires rare materials or high level crafting, it's going to be a pain under the current system. It's also a pain in the **** for LSes/Companies that don't have a specific crafting class available to repair a certain piece of gear.

This is all hypothetical, but it's worth keeping in mind.

dnored wrote:
Good idea but i dont think it works that way. If you fight he same mob for an hour i think the weapons do not wear intill after the battle. i could be wrong but i have not repaired gear on my rank 50 MRD for 3 weeks cause all i do is fight NMS twice a week with it. Before the battle it was 100% but a half hour later it was 98% whereas if i do 6 leves in the same amount of time im almost at 80% lol.

Dont scream at me people if you find something esle but this is what i found. i never ever saw in the middle of a battle "so and so gear is damaged" only get that message after the battle but i could be wrong.


I can't say I've fought NMs yet. What happens if you die multiple times per fight?
#29 Feb 11 2011 at 4:10 PM Rating: Good
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dnored wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
A factor I failed to consider in my poll, one that occurs to me now, is that it doesn't take into account whether someone is able to repair or not. It might stand to reason that whether or not you can repair your own stuff or other peoples' stuff would affect your opinion on the system as well.



so your trying to take into account people who play the game have jobs ranked up? How can you come to understand that if you do not play? I no i said i would not post to you ever but you asked in the last thread why is rank important and you answered your own question.

Not to start another debate (cause i just wont answer if you start to insult me again) but Im sorry but people who play the game have more weight to me then people who have not played since it dropped IMHO. Your allowed to post in threads because its a free world but if you have little experience in it you should not act like you know everything. Mab just mab if you took the time to use some of these systems you will enjoy it a little more.

You can write back i will read it but if you go crazy again dont expect a reply. Believe it or not im looking for a honest debate not a scream fest.

sorry for double post


Listen:

What I said in the part you quoted was that the options do not take into account whether someone can repair their own gear or others. How did you interpret that as what you said? My rank has nothing to do with whether someone can repair their own gear. Whether I'm rank 5 or rank 50, I don't need to rank up to know that some people can repair their own gear and some can't. Your post doesn't even make sense.

Furthermore, you go on to act like you're gracing me with the right to reply to me in a thread that I started. If you're going to act like I need to somehow earn the lofty honor of being responded to by you, the least you could do is write intelligibly.
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#30 Feb 11 2011 at 4:12 PM Rating: Good
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Wolfums wrote:
SylOdinsdottir wrote:
Ah that is true, but the posts in Lodestone seem to indicate a large amount of fixes and tweaks to the rate of decline for a gear's durability as well as fixes to the repair system so it should hopefully be a lot better by then. I've found that a lot of mats can repair multiple tools/gear and there aren't that many weapons/armours/accessories that requires really specialized repair mats. Most of the high end gear and tools require the same basic square, ring, nugget, branch, or glue to repair as low ranked gear.

And you can always use down times between pops to repair at camp. With a lot of people choosing to rank both a craft job and a battle job it's not that far fetched that someone will be able to repair you gear. I'm not saying it's practical and efficient, but it's not like the system is so difficult to work with that people can't adapt.


True about multiple people having multiple crafting classes. But my concern was more about when/if Limbus/Dynamis/Salvage type content is added. You know, the kind that's action packed from the first minute to the last minute; where you don't really have a chance to take your time to run back to repair and/or switch classes or whatever. Also when/if quested gear ala AF armor is introduced, and if it requires rare materials or high level crafting, it's going to be a pain under the current system. It's also a pain in the **** for LSes/Companies that don't have a specific crafting class available to repair a certain piece of gear.

This is all hypothetical, but it's worth keeping in mind.


Yeah, it's a very good point; you might have to keep crafters in your group to repair items in teh middle of events, which would be extremely inconvenient to say the least.

Wolfums wrote:
dnored wrote:
Good idea but i dont think it works that way. If you fight he same mob for an hour i think the weapons do not wear intill after the battle. i could be wrong but i have not repaired gear on my rank 50 MRD for 3 weeks cause all i do is fight NMS twice a week with it. Before the battle it was 100% but a half hour later it was 98% whereas if i do 6 leves in the same amount of time im almost at 80% lol.

Dont scream at me people if you find something esle but this is what i found. i never ever saw in the middle of a battle "so and so gear is damaged" only get that message after the battle but i could be wrong.


I can't say I've fought NMs yet. What happens if you die multiple times per fight?


Yeah, many fights in XI had people die and reraise midfight. Or worse, what if you wipe and have to start over but everyone's gear is broken?
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#31 Feb 11 2011 at 4:14 PM Rating: Good
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Wolfums wrote:
True about multiple people having multiple crafting classes. But my concern was more about when/if Limbus/Dynamis/Salvage type content is added. You know, the kind that's action packed from the first minute to the last minute; where you don't really have a chance to take your time to run back to repair and/or switch classes or whatever. Also when/if quested gear ala AF armor is introduced, and if it requires rare materials or high level crafting, it's going to be a pain under the current system. It's also a pain in the **** for LSes/Companies that don't have a specific crafting class available to repair a certain piece of gear.

This is all hypothetical, but it's worth keeping in mind.


You've got a point, and I agree, it would be a hassle to break the rhythm from raids/boss fights to repair gear. Going by the current trend I don't think we'll see a lot of rare mats for high ranked gear. High level crafting yes, but not rare mats. I mean looking at the repair mats for most high end gear right now, and for the most part it's all basic repair mats. There are one or two that need relatively rare materials like the Jade Hora for example but most of it is pretty basic. That being said, I'm all up for tweaking the current system. I think it still needs improvement and a bit more streamlining before people are satisfied with/tolerate it.

#32 Feb 11 2011 at 4:18 PM Rating: Decent
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SylOdinsdottir wrote:
Wolfums wrote:
True about multiple people having multiple crafting classes. But my concern was more about when/if Limbus/Dynamis/Salvage type content is added. You know, the kind that's action packed from the first minute to the last minute; where you don't really have a chance to take your time to run back to repair and/or switch classes or whatever. Also when/if quested gear ala AF armor is introduced, and if it requires rare materials or high level crafting, it's going to be a pain under the current system. It's also a pain in the **** for LSes/Companies that don't have a specific crafting class available to repair a certain piece of gear.

This is all hypothetical, but it's worth keeping in mind.


You've got a point, and I agree, it would be a hassle to break the rhythm from raids/boss fights to repair gear. Going by the current trend I don't think we'll see a lot of rare mats for high ranked gear. High level crafting yes, but not rare mats. I mean looking at the repair mats for most high end gear right now, and for the most part it's all basic repair mats. There are one or two that need relatively rare materials like the Jade Hora for example but most of it is pretty basic. That being said, I'm all up for tweaking the current system. I think it still needs improvement and a bit more streamlining before people are satisfied with/tolerate it.


Yeah, that's a big question: Will endgame gear require stupidly expensive and rare mats to maintain?
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#33 Feb 11 2011 at 4:34 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
[Yeah, that's a big question: Will endgame gear require stupidly expensive and rare mats to maintain?


Isn't that kinda the idea to keep the DoL busy? Remove the repair system and now only crafters need mats.

Currently, EVERYONE needs mats.
#34 Feb 11 2011 at 4:34 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Yeah, that's a big question: Will endgame gear require stupidly expensive and rare mats to maintain?


Most of the current r50 gear don't need anything extremely rare or extremely expensive to repair, the bigger problem is finding crafters high ranked enough to repair rather than finding the materials for repair. Of course the current gear is nowhere near 'end-game' but it's the only thing I have to compare.
#35 Feb 11 2011 at 5:02 PM Rating: Good
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SylOdinsdottir wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Yeah, that's a big question: Will endgame gear require stupidly expensive and rare mats to maintain?


Most of the current r50 gear don't need anything extremely rare or extremely expensive to repair, the bigger problem is finding crafters high ranked enough to repair rather than finding the materials for repair. Of course the current gear is nowhere near 'end-game' but it's the only thing I have to compare.


Yeah, that's what I'm saying; wasn't FFXI's original level cap at 50 as well until it was increased to 75? The level 50 gear for the time wasn't super crazy in terms of items needed to craft it, but most of the level 75 gear that was good came from NM drops. Imagine if you needed D Cloth and D Ingot and A Ingot and V Claw to repair items on a daily basis in FFXI; how absurd the game would have gotten.

Edited, Feb 11th 2011 6:03pm by Mikhalia
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#36 Feb 11 2011 at 5:12 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Yeah, that's what I'm saying; wasn't FFXI's original level cap at 50 as well until it was increased to 75? The level 50 gear for the time wasn't super crazy in terms of items needed to craft it, but most of the level 75 gear that was good came from NM drops. Imagine if you needed D Cloth and D Ingot and A Ingot and V Claw to repair items on a daily basis in FFXI; how absurd the game would have gotten.

Edited, Feb 11th 2011 6:03pm by Mikhalia


Ah you have a point. As a gatherer though, it means I can continue to profit so I don't mind. ^_~

All joking aside, I still remember when pre-November patch some repairs were a nightmare due to the impossibly difficult and rare repair mats. The current trend seems to be a departure from that, but who knows? With the introduction of new content and new synthesis recipes we might end up returning to the old rare/difficult mats to repair system. I'm hoping it doesn't come to that, but it's all speculation at this point. That being said, unless S-E slows the rate of durability loss on tools and weapons this system no matter how many times it gets tweaked will continue to be a huge pain. Maybe even increase the durability of HQ items (if they aren't already. I don't pay attention to the values) so there will be a push for HQ gear aside from the increase in stats.

Some kind of incentive for the system besides SP and money/social interaction not that that's a bad thing. I'm just greedy for more.
#37 Feb 11 2011 at 5:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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<shameless plug>

If crafters were given recipes for temporary enchants like I suggested, then DOL classes would still have a reason to collect materials for DOH classes.

</shameless plug>
#38 Feb 11 2011 at 5:52 PM Rating: Good
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If it were the same sytem as most games where you can just run up to an NPC and click a hammer real quick for 100% repair costing a normal amount like say.. 5k for everything and they fix the rate at which weapons break, it could be a great gil sink which is necessary for a healthy economy. If they make me level a gathering class randomly just to get a twig that no one is selling to repair my bow, then no I don't want it anymore. I see where they were goin with it, but I don't like it one bit the way it is.
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#39 Feb 11 2011 at 6:36 PM Rating: Good
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voting trends are very interesting... it's almost even across the board.
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#40 Feb 11 2011 at 7:57 PM Rating: Good
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Transmigration wrote:
If it were the same sytem as most games where you can just run up to an NPC and click a hammer real quick for 100% repair costing a normal amount like say.. 5k for everything and they fix the rate at which weapons break, it could be a great gil sink which is necessary for a healthy economy. If they make me level a gathering class randomly just to get a twig that no one is selling to repair my bow, then no I don't want it anymore. I see where they were goin with it, but I don't like it one bit the way it is.


I like SE to completely remove it but something like ^this^ would work fine. I just really hate the way they implemented it.
#41 Feb 11 2011 at 11:45 PM Rating: Decent
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I never liked degrading gear in games. It makes me feel like I have to wash the dishes after eating. I don't want to do that in a game, any sort of mandatory cleanup / repair / upkeep is annoying. Plus if you keep using it to 0% your to hit goes down sure but it doesn't break. Seems like to have a useful system it has to have a real impact. I would REALLY hate it if that happened, just sayin...
#42 Feb 12 2011 at 12:36 AM Rating: Good
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I don't like repair in games unless I can fix it myself (or someone else can fix it easily). I get kind of OCD about repairs in games like WoW where the only way to repair is in town at the repair NPC. I either click the guy five or six times while going about my business in town, thinking "oh god, don't forget to repair... oh I already did", or I completely forget to do it and join a party with almost broken stuff and everyone gets mad. I would hate to see the repair system become something like that.

I picked that I don't necessarily like it, but I could with fixes.
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#43 Feb 12 2011 at 12:45 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
I dislike it, but with work/overhauls, I might like it. :


This was my choice. Weapons break down way too fast, and the repair NPC is too expensive. I like the concept, but repairs shouldn't be so tedious that they get in the way of the rest of the game.
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#44 Feb 12 2011 at 4:34 AM Rating: Good
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I chose "I dislike it, but with work/overhauls, I might like it"

And really, it would only take one simple change to make me like it...

Repair kits!!

Let crafters make stackable repair kits, that can be used by any class, regardless of craft levels, to repair an item to say 90% or so. You'd still need a crafter to fix it if you wanted to sell it, but for personal use, it'd be fine.

I understand all the stuff SE was trying to do with the repair system and such... But it boils down to one simple fact... Either you level every craft to 40, which is an astronomical pain in the ***, or you deal with broken gear at times, at which point you may as well run around naked. What's the point of even having gear at that point?

I didn't really get into crafting until after I capped my con. Basically, what I did, was pick out some pretty pink canvas gear, not paying any attention at all to the optimal rank, and wore that, usually broken gear, until 50. I got it fixed now and then, and around 40ish I got weaver high enough to repair canvas, but for the most part, my leather/gold/crp stuff was still usually busted, so meh.

Now, thanks to friends in my shell which I always party with who also have crafts, we tend to keep everything in good repair and have gear that's actually suitable for our level... And though I never ever solo a battle job unless farming, which there's no need for atm, if I did... I'd say ***** repairs, and just buy 10 copies of my weapon rather than taking crp to 40+, and skip jewelry/leather items unless they were 30 ranks below my job.

That's just dumb, and is not conducive to gaming at all... If we had repair kits, people could gear how they wanted without first thinking "Hmmm, how much of a pain in the *** will this be?"

Want another example? Look at the Jade Hora +1 pgl weapon.. It requires a +1 jadite to repair... Yeah, have fun with that. Basically, what it means, is that for most cases, the HQ weapon is a far worse choice then the NQ... Kind of feels the opposite of what should be the case...
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#45 Feb 12 2011 at 4:43 AM Rating: Good
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The repair system might be another needless sink, but it's something im well used to by now having played many MMOs with similar features. I don't hate it, but then I don't really enjoy it either. I personally feel that the NPCs need to have their fees reduced and that they should be able to accomodate jewellery repairs as well as your main equipment.

Still, like it or lump it we're presently stuck with it. Might as well try my hand at earning some gil for armor repairs.
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#46 Feb 12 2011 at 6:03 AM Rating: Good
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I don't like the fact that repairs fail. Considering most people don't even offer what the repair item is worth, failing 3 or 4 times is obnoxious.
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#47 Feb 12 2011 at 6:32 AM Rating: Good
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Tiger228 wrote:
I didn't really get into crafting until after I capped my con. Basically, what I did, was pick out some pretty pink canvas gear, not paying any attention at all to the optimal rank, and wore that, usually broken gear, until 50. I got it fixed now and then, and around 40ish I got weaver high enough to repair canvas, but for the most part, my leather/gold/crp stuff was still usually busted, so meh.

I don't get why you have to be around 40ish to repair your canvas gear. I can repair almost all canvas gear by the time I'm r28 Weaver. With the rule being 10 ranks below optimal item rank, and not needing any extra ranks for HQ gear, you can comfortably cap all your crafts at r40 if you're so inclined to, although most gear can be repaired in the upper 30s already.

Quote:
Want another example? Look at the Jade Hora +1 pgl weapon.. It requires a +1 jadite to repair... Yeah, have fun with that. Basically, what it means, is that for most cases, the HQ weapon is a far worse choice then the NQ... Kind of feels the opposite of what should be the case...

I haven't had to use an +HQ repair mat to repair HQ weapons, so I'm not sure if it's just in this particular case?
#48 Feb 12 2011 at 7:27 AM Rating: Good
Tiger228 wrote:

Want another example? Look at the Jade Hora +1 pgl weapon.. It requires a +1 jadite to repair... Yeah, have fun with that. Basically, what it means, is that for most cases, the HQ weapon is a far worse choice then the NQ... Kind of feels the opposite of what should be the case...


I don't think that's the case - as long as you have the repair mat, you can repair any piece of gear, be it HQ or not. I've repaired a Bronze Dagger +2 with one NQ Bronze Nugget, as well as other +1 Weapons with no HQ materials.

Not to incite any flames here, but may I ask where you got that example from?

EDIT - I'm sorry if people misunderstood the last line, I'm just curious as to where Tiger got the information that the +1 Jade Hora DOES require a +1 Jadeite to repair, since I've never heard of that specificity.


Edited, Feb 12th 2011 9:57am by GuiltyBoomerang
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#49 Feb 12 2011 at 8:28 AM Rating: Good
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GuiltyBoomerang wrote:
Tiger228 wrote:

Want another example? Look at the Jade Hora +1 pgl weapon.. It requires a +1 jadite to repair... Yeah, have fun with that. Basically, what it means, is that for most cases, the HQ weapon is a far worse choice then the NQ... Kind of feels the opposite of what should be the case...


I don't think that's the case - as long as you have the repair mat, you can repair any piece of gear, be it HQ or not. I've repaired a Bronze Dagger +2 with one NQ Bronze Nugget, as well as other +1 Weapons with no HQ materials.

Not to incite any flames here, but may I ask where you got that example from?

Edited, Feb 12th 2011 8:30am by GuiltyBoomerang



http://ffxiv.yg.com/item/jade-hora?id=4020007
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#50 Feb 12 2011 at 8:54 AM Rating: Excellent
SWSeeker wrote:
[quote=GuiltyBoomerang][quote=Tiger228]]
http://ffxiv.yg.com/item/jade-hora?id=4020007


Alright, I understand that that is a Pugilist weapon, but what I meant was where Tiger got the information that a +1 Hora needed a +1 Jadeite to repair at all?
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#51 Feb 12 2011 at 9:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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I've played a lot of games with repairs. Most of them are offline and single player and I don't understand what about the game mechanic is fun and interesting and exciting and groundbreaking. It seems like just an excuse to take some of my in game cash/supplies or some of my irl time away from me in order to extend lacking content.

Exactly what is the 'benefit' of this system? I don't see people in group going 'Woot! My gear finally broke, now I can go back to town!!!' and everyone else going 'Grats!!!! I was hoping for a break, everyone stop having fun while Catrim gets his stuff fixed'. It's not like it's a complex minigame that could be fun in order to get your stuff fixed. "Find your way through the maze and get your crap fixed" or something stupid like that... at least it would be somewhat 'fun'.

It's just a constant and all too often recurring 'time tax' that I have to pay irl every few leves. It doesn't make me feel more immersed at all, it feels like I'm having to fight the game in order to achieve the very basics of combat effectiveness.

Don't you want me to spend as much time in game having the greatest time possible, SE?

It might sound lazy, and I can agree with that. But I *am* lazy. So I'm true to form here. I'm sure all the people who leveled crafting for the sole reason of repairing their own gear would be ****** OFF at having put all that work into it if the system was just yanked out and thrown away. But in my limited/lazy opinion... yank it out and throw it away.

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