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No penalties upon death.Follow

#152 Feb 23 2011 at 11:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Iren wrote:
My two cents:

As a conjurer and former whm, without a death penalty raise just seems useless. Helping people by raising them in 11 was so cool 'cause I knew I had saved them lots exp. Now I just save them from an inconvenience.

People are talking about how having no penalty makes it less frustrating but there's two sides to that coin. It also makes it less exciting.


IMO, excitement should come from the fights themselves, rather than the fear of death. Challenging fights, interesting mechanics, limited resources for the players to manage, and death for the entire group should you fail. No Reraise casts during combat, only one Reraise per CON at any given time, make Reraise a CON-exclusive spell to avoid abuse. Long cast time on Raise during combat, short cast when out of combat, res sickness debuff when cast during combat that prevents a 2nd combat res during that particular fight, non-CONs can't cast Raise during combat.

By doing something like this, deaths will matter more and more as the fight continues and resources run scarce, though it may place far more importance on CONs than is probably necessary.

MajidahSihaam wrote:
Spyrit178 wrote:
Show of hands, how many crafters would go out into the field with a raid and risk loosing sp? How many would rank up a gathering class knowing you could risk loosing your sp?

As long as crafting and gathering are classes sp debt doesn't fit into the mechanic of the game. It would be completely unbalanced to crafters and gatherers, to the point no one would want to waste time and money on sp debt. Gear damage on the other hand is balanced for all 3 roles.


I don't see the lack of balance here. In XI mining required a lot of sneaking around. DoL could hire DoW to clean the palce for a few hours and so on in any case.


I can only assume that the reason gathering in XI required so much investment in alchemy or WHM levels was because the original intent of the developers was for players to wander around in groups either killing **** and harvesting the occasional node, or actually gathering materials as a group, and players ruled that such a concept was ******* insane, like many other things that were in XI.

What's even more insane is the expectation that you should have to hire someone to clear an area of hostiles so that you can gather in safety. How much should a DoW/DoM even charge for something like that? 500k? 1mil? More? Is such a thing even remotely reasonable?

Quote:
TheRealDestian wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
I've read this argument made by people way smarter than me, but I'll try. Adding a harsh death penalty doesn't make the content more challenging, just more frustrating.


This.

Make the content better and harder and we won't even care.


I'm sorry but this isn't how it works. And no one is saying it will suddenly become more challenging. What we are saying is that if there were a death penalty, then you'd play differently. You'd care more about everything you do. You'd care to find a safespot to afk. You'd care to stay alive even if you knew your friends could kill the thing after you go down.

In other words, everything would be more involving.


I disagree. I think people would play far more conservatively and take way fewer risks as a consequence, just as they did in XI. XI monsters, for the most part, were little more than scenery pieces that would kill you dead if you ****** them off, and many monster families had spells and abilities that made them too much of a hassle to kill. As such, people avoided most of them, made camps near clusters of mobs that were considered easy and "safe", and then spent hours there, ignoring the rest of the world. Why try and kill Morbols and deal with random status ailments when there's a hare somewhere nearby that dies faster, isn't nearly as annoying, and gives the same exp per kill as the Morbol?
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