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AOEs, mobs that follow you and all that.Follow

#1 Feb 13 2011 at 10:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Problem
This is an AoE heavily based title with constant fights against multiple enemies.
The leve and behest system spawn mobs all through a field which is otherwise occupied by misc mobs, this causes an overlap which forbids players from using AoE skills in order to avoid random mobs that have nothing to do with their current activity.

Marauder suffers from this particulary as their weaponskills turn into AOE skills if they remain still for enough time.

Solution
bsphil wrote:

Make it so the AoE of players targeting Behest and leve mobs does not reach normal mobs.

If you're targeting a leve mob, even if you're surrounded by other mobs, the AoE will only hit the nearby leve mobs. If you're targeting a normal mob, the AoE will hit everything.



edit:
also whats up with goats? they are realistic enough to follow a player but not realistic enough to run away in fear when the player swings his axe violently against other mobs?

Edited, Feb 13th 2011 11:43am by MajidahSihaam

Edited, Feb 13th 2011 2:35pm by MajidahSihaam
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#2 Feb 13 2011 at 10:56 AM Rating: Decent
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MajidahSihaam wrote:
Make it so players can't interact with mobs outside the instance when engaged in behest and leves.


Well, instances so far seem to be easy enough such that anyone can solo a multi-person difficulty with 20 or 25 minutes to spare... so it's not like it would be that hard to lay off AoE skills when something is right next to you. Heck, I've yet to see a leve that I can't solo using only my basic attack/starting skill (of course I am only in the Rank 20s)!

Additionally, I would find it more annoying if I was tucked away in some impermeable instance bubble for most of my play time, unable to hit monsters outside of my "designated quest target;" the game feels fragmented enough with instant teleports to anywhere in the world, I think. XD

What you say about Marauder, though, does seem somewhat problematic, but rather than update instances, SE could just allow one to "trigger the AoE," like mages can already do.
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#3 Feb 13 2011 at 11:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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what I don't understand is why do we get less/0 exp for killing something outside the group we are fighting? They give us all these AOE abilities, surround us by monsters, and then penalize us if we use our AOEs.
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#4 Feb 13 2011 at 11:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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The real solution, IMO, is to get rid of the silly engagement system. Have all mobs be able to be attacked whether or not it's engaged and be rewarded in accordance to how much you or your group does in damage. Problem completely solved(and makes gameplay much better imo).

I'd rather have to deal with the potential person kill stealing than the current system.
#5 Feb 13 2011 at 11:44 AM Rating: Default
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KaneKitty wrote:
MajidahSihaam wrote:
Make it so players can't interact with mobs outside the instance when engaged in behest and leves.


Well, instances so far seem to be easy enough such that anyone can solo a multi-person difficulty with 20 or 25 minutes to spare... so it's not like it would be that hard to lay off AoE skills when something is right next to you. Heck, I've yet to see a leve that I can't solo using only my basic attack/starting skill (of course I am only in the Rank 20s)!

Additionally, I would find it more annoying if I was tucked away in some impermeable instance bubble for most of my play time, unable to hit monsters outside of my "designated quest target;" the game feels fragmented enough with instant teleports to anywhere in the world, I think. XD


In my persona experience there has been 0 times in which I have stopped willingly to kill something outside a leve or behest.
All the time it has been either 1- carefully avoiding AOEs so I dont hit anything or 2- spamming my AOEs in hope that the links all die and are weak enough not to take me down.

Feels wrong to have to deal with passive wandering mobs that have nothing to do just because the spawn spots overlap.

KaneKitty wrote:
What you say about Marauder, though, does seem somewhat problematic, but rather than update instances, SE could just allow one to "trigger the AoE," like mages can already do.


This is a pretty good idea. A button like the ones in spells that would only be enabled for clicking when being under steadfast.
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#6 Feb 13 2011 at 12:30 PM Rating: Good
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MajidahSihaam wrote:



edit:
also whats up with goats? they are realistic enough to follow a player but not realistic enough to run away in fear when the player swings his axe violently against other mobs?

Edited, Feb 13th 2011 11:43am by MajidahSihaam


That's what they do in that other game. We wouldn't want a clone now would we?

lol
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#7 Feb 13 2011 at 12:33 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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MajidahSihaam wrote:
Solution
Make it so players can't interact with mobs outside the instance when engaged in behest and leves.
How about:
Make it so the AoE of players targeting Behest and leve mobs does not reach normal mobs.

If you're targeting a leve mob, even if you're surrounded by other mobs, the AoE will only hit the nearby leve mobs. If you're targeting a normal mob, the AoE will hit everything.

Edited, Feb 13th 2011 12:34pm by bsphil
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#8 Feb 13 2011 at 1:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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this isn't a problem, just learn when to and when not to use aoe.
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#9 Feb 13 2011 at 1:28 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
MajidahSihaam wrote:
Solution
Make it so players can't interact with mobs outside the instance when engaged in behest and leves.
How about:
Make it so the AoE of players targeting Behest and leve mobs does not reach normal mobs.

If you're targeting a leve mob, even if you're surrounded by other mobs, the AoE will only hit the nearby leve mobs. If you're targeting a normal mob, the AoE will hit everything.

Edited, Feb 13th 2011 12:34pm by bsphil


I think this is a much better idea. I always kill random mobs while doing a leve. I like to see what they drop. Or if I happen to see some mobs that drop something I know I need, I will kill them on my way to my target.

edit: grammar is my friend

Edited, Feb 13th 2011 2:28pm by Rekia
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#10 Feb 13 2011 at 1:32 PM Rating: Good
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I personally enjoy diving into a crowd of helpless animals and swinging my axe around violently. I believe that's what Marauders are supposed to be doing besides. I would agree to get rid of the engagement system for everything except quest specific enemies, such as those found in levequests and Notorious Monsters.

I also don't think it's particularly hard to use single target attacks during a levequest, or, in my special case, to just kill everything that gets in my way.
#11 Feb 13 2011 at 1:32 PM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
MajidahSihaam wrote:
Solution
Make it so players can't interact with mobs outside the instance when engaged in behest and leves.
How about:
Make it so the AoE of players targeting Behest and leve mobs does not reach normal mobs.

If you're targeting a leve mob, even if you're surrounded by other mobs, the AoE will only hit the nearby leve mobs. If you're targeting a normal mob, the AoE will hit everything.

Edited, Feb 13th 2011 12:34pm by bsphil


^ this sounds even better.

Jefro420 wrote:
this isn't a problem, just learn when to and when not to use aoe.


Do you know whats steadfast? A marauder gains AOE automatically after standing still for a while.
Marauder is pretty much an AOE based job, you can aoe voke with warmonger, pop defender, use your AOE basic attack to gather a ******** of TP and your AOE weaponskills to fight many enemies at once.
To even avoid AOEing you'd have to keep moving just to work the game's mechanics.

Also a lot of mages can nuke and survive against multiple mobs but their chances are lowered greatly when disabling the AOE.

Why would should we have to decide between hampering our power and claiming a bunch of random mobs?
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#12 Feb 13 2011 at 3:18 PM Rating: Decent
Jefro420 wrote:
this isn't a problem, just learn when to and when not to use aoe.


Shhhh stategy and skill can be bad words depending on the topic.

I find that my biggest problem as a mage is forgetting to turn AoE back on. I'm getting better though and pretty much switch on the fly. The only oops I've had was when I was mid cast for AoE and next group popped in range but my spell was going off before I could cancel it. Otherwise I find I'm enjoying the skill required to turn AoE on and Off, it makes up for the easy mode AoE healing (which I think I'd rather have unless party sizes were reduced slightly).
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#13 Feb 13 2011 at 5:41 PM Rating: Good
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IIRC it used to be in alpha/early beta you could cast an AOE and it would only hit the group associated with the mob you are targeting. Sure wish they'd bring that back, I've got 92872893472394 rams following me 90% of the time :(
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#14 Feb 13 2011 at 6:15 PM Rating: Decent
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idk, i agree with mobs following you as being a big problem because there are so many mobs that do follow lol rams all follow, dodos, coblyns, and im sure im missing a few others.
there are way too many times in thanalan where im literally having a blast.... then a ******* goat decides to waltz on over and stare me in the face for the **** of it.
so i then (since im a mage) have to let out a big sigh IRL and sitch over to single target casting and hope i dont die.
if im able to aoe leve mobs successfully then im also able to heighten the difficulty, but too many times have i had to lower a leves difficulty due to my lame roadies and fans while soloing. so yes i think its somewhat of a problem but not game breaking atm.
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#15wrongfeifong, Posted: Feb 13 2011 at 6:57 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I am more **** about the AOE of the level II spells are double the radius of the first tier.
#16 Feb 13 2011 at 8:30 PM Rating: Good
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I find this rather irritating as well, and I really feel for the marauders out there! I don't really have issues with the whole "mobs following you" thing, since Thaumaturge AOE doesn't hit anything behind you, but boy would I like to have some visual representation of what exactly my AOE will be hitting. Sometimes I'll wonder, is that doe/dormouse/etc far enough away that I won't hit it? Or will I wind up with 4-5 mobs beating on me instead of just the 3 that are really hard for me as is?

AOE heals and buffs only seem to work on party members, so it'd be nice if AOE attacks only worked on mobs that you were engaged with.

#17 Feb 13 2011 at 8:44 PM Rating: Good
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How is AE hard to deal with?

Oh my, I can't spam any ability I feel like?!?!?!
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#18 Feb 14 2011 at 12:48 AM Rating: Good
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Noooooo, I don't really have a problem with it, it adds more challenge to the game. I like the game to be REALLY HARD AND FRUSTRATING FOR OTHER PEOPLE. ;p

Maybe ignorance is bliss having been raised in an environment where most kids were 'winners' at the games and activities they participated in during early child development?? iono j/k

But for me, I like most things that make the game more difficult.




Edited, Feb 14th 2011 1:48am by BadJoRed
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#19 Feb 14 2011 at 2:01 AM Rating: Good
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I wish I could toss a piece of food in a random direction so the mob that's following would just go eat it and leave my side.

That's what I do with my dog when I don't want him near me for a few seconds.

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#20 Feb 14 2011 at 2:14 AM Rating: Default
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Seems like everyone who sees no problem with it have never played an MRD. It's damned annoying to be forced to look up and make sure if I can use my WS and if not, I have to move, wait a few more seconds for Steadfast to go away then use my basic WS. At least let us turn off AoE like caster classes.
Tankue wrote:
How is AE hard to deal with?

Oh my, I can't spam any ability I feel like?!?!?!

This guy especially doesn't know what he's talking about.
#21 Feb 14 2011 at 2:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Just don't use aoe. it is simple. I say get rid of aoe cures makes the game way to easy.


Edited, Feb 14th 2011 3:16am by irnick1985
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#22 Feb 14 2011 at 2:19 AM Rating: Default
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irnick1985 wrote:
Just don't use aoe. it is simple. I say get rid of aoe cures makes the game way to easy.


Edited, Feb 14th 2011 3:16am by irnick1985

MRDs don't have a choice.
#23 Feb 14 2011 at 2:44 AM Rating: Good
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As others have said, change the engagement system. I've lost count of the number of mobs I've killed on my THM for zero Sp and no drops because of the way the engagement system works.

I love to AOE, it brings an extra degree of difficulty and reward to fighting mobs, and can be beneficial when using the various drain spells, but now with the engagement system you are getting no extra SP or drops even though you have chosen to increase the difficulty by engaging all the mobs.

All Behest / Leve mobs are locked to you already so there is no issue of kill stealing.

Outside of Leve / Behest keep the current one mob claimed. This is vital as high levels could claim an entire area of mobs just to force someone out and sit there holding the mobs.

On remaining mobs not claimed SP should be proportioned according to damage done.
Drops could either go to the kill shot (yes you will get kill stealers but lets be honest is it really an issue, when if a kill stealer is there you can just switch to single target spells for a bit)
or drops could go to the most damage done (preferred), again kill stealers but if they managed to knock out the most damage on a mob then they did the brunt of the work. Either way someone should be getting SP and Drops. Ideally drops proportioned to damage done but that could be really complex programming wise.
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#24 Feb 14 2011 at 7:22 AM Rating: Default
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Khaap wrote:
As others have said, change the engagement system. I've lost count of the number of mobs I've killed on my THM for zero Sp and no drops because of the way the engagement system works.

I love to AOE, it brings an extra degree of difficulty and reward to fighting mobs, and can be beneficial when using the various drain spells, but now with the engagement system you are getting no extra SP or drops even though you have chosen to increase the difficulty by engaging all the mobs.

All Behest / Leve mobs are locked to you already so there is no issue of kill stealing.

Outside of Leve / Behest keep the current one mob claimed. This is vital as high levels could claim an entire area of mobs just to force someone out and sit there holding the mobs.

On remaining mobs not claimed SP should be proportioned according to damage done.
Drops could either go to the kill shot (yes you will get kill stealers but lets be honest is it really an issue, when if a kill stealer is there you can just switch to single target spells for a bit)
or drops could go to the most damage done (preferred), again kill stealers but if they managed to knock out the most damage on a mob then they did the brunt of the work. Either way someone should be getting SP and Drops. Ideally drops proportioned to damage done but that could be really complex programming wise.


If you didn't notice, the engagement system is base on groups.

SP only NOT given if you engage something outside of the "group" If the group have 3 dodo,, aoe the 3 dodo will give you 3 set of SP.

But if you AOE a 4th dodo that isn't part of the group, you don't get SP.

The engagement system works this way because it is a way to prevent "summoner" burns from FFXI, of course "summoner" burns are also used in MANY mmorpg in other form, include DAOC, WoW, AC and many more.

Now the other issue is already fixed before your post. Monster that isn't under RED engagement is now non-xp. But when you engage it, the XP is base on the percentage of what it has remain.

for example 100% red engage give 500. but when you hit it under yellow for 50% hp and when you claim it red @ 50% will only net you 50% SP.

I think the engagement system is amazing in the sense of preventing CHEATER/Powerleveler.
#25 Feb 14 2011 at 7:43 AM Rating: Good
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[quote=Seikninkuru]The real solution, IMO, is to get rid of the silly engagement system. Have all mobs be able to be attacked whether or not it's engaged and be rewarded in accordance to how much you or your group does in damage. Problem completely solved(and makes gameplay much better imo). [quote]

Totaly!!

[quote=irnick1985]Just don't use aoe. it is simple. I say get rid of aoe cures makes the game way to easy. [quote]

get rid of AOE heal?? never! with the current party size and the lack of being able to target members quickly no aoe heal would make me stop playing! now reduce the party size so we can use the F keys again, single target cure here i come!!!
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#26 Feb 14 2011 at 8:09 AM Rating: Good
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Ugh yes let's make this game even easier, because it's just too **** hard to avoid those pesky stalker mobs. If something takes skill it should be removed.

Marauder even gets two types of aoe. One for going nuts and one for being more precise in more delicate situations for when you got a stalker on your back.

Seriously if you don't like effort or skill stop playing this game.
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#27 Feb 14 2011 at 8:32 AM Rating: Default
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RedGalka wrote:
Ugh yes let's make this game even easier, because it's just too **** hard to avoid those pesky stalker mobs. If something takes skill it should be removed.

Marauder even gets two types of aoe. One for going nuts and one for being more precise in more delicate situations for when you got a stalker on your back.

Seriously if you don't like effort or skill stop playing this game.


lack of design isn't a challenge to brave with skill. its just lack of design.
and having mobs overlap because you designed an instanced system for missions should have a design in order to avoid this overlapping. its not like SE is saying oh yeah, lets see how they handle getting their AOEs screwed up and if they rise to the challenge of dealing with minor annoyances!
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#28 Feb 14 2011 at 8:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yep, I do know marauder does AOE attacks when standing still. I also know that when playing marauder if I don't want to AOE, I should move around a bit. Problem solved. The solution is to use tactics, not nerf AOE.
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#29 Feb 14 2011 at 10:04 AM Rating: Good
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I sincerely believe that SE thinks that the roaming mobs = challenge. The only thing in this game that remotely resembles a challenge or promoted strategic gameplay is when you kite or pull a pack of leve mobs away from the roamers so that you can AoE them.

Unfortunately, I think it's for the better that the game is laughably easy. Last night I was doing 5-star rank 30 leves with a group of about 10. The leve required us to kill multiple mobs that were grouped in pairs. In theory, I would Dark Seal + Sleep one mob and the rest of the group would single-target DPS. Invariably, every single time we attempted to execute this advanced strat, someone would hit the slept mobbed. No matter what symbols we put above the targets, it was just too impossible and complicated for this group to grasp.

Explaining the strat to this group was like trying to teach your dog how to drive a car. It was an exercise in futility and insanity. I'm pretty sure that roaming mobs is the extent of the "challenge" that most of the player base can deal with.
#30 Feb 14 2011 at 11:15 AM Rating: Good
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I see that the OP plays or played FFXI too.
What do you do in FFXI if you want to fight a mob that's surrounded by other mobs? You pull it.
What do 95% of all exp parties do? Set up a camp and pull the mobs there.

I don't see any problem in the current system. It's just not advisable to nuke into a group of mobs using AoE spells or abilities. Seperate them, then you can do whatever you want.

Btw, every class got a ranged attack too, but only very few players use it.
And not all MRD attacks turn into AoE attacks. Your base attack is single target and Trunksplitter is single target too. For some others you just have to make a step to turn them to single target again and there even is a skill specifically for moving while under the effect of Steadfast.
Why should there be such a skill if MRD wasn't meant to move during fights?

The OP's solution just removes the need for the little bit of skill currently involved when fighting.
If people don't learn to manage such simple situations in behests or leves I don't want to know what will happen once we get real content.

Quote:
lack of design isn't a challenge to brave with skill. its just lack of design.

What else, if not situations where you have to consider many things and use some strategy, would require skill or be a challenge in your opinion?
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#31 Feb 14 2011 at 11:22 AM Rating: Good
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RidingBean wrote:

What else, if not situations where you have to consider many things and use some strategy, would require skill or be a challenge in your opinion?

this



[sarcasm]
I know, maybe we can have skills all made so that we can't just equip them on anything we want. That way every class has to do the same fixed set of actions every fight completely eliminating the need for strategy and forethought. Yes, that would be awesome!
[sarcasm]
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#32 Feb 14 2011 at 11:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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RidingBean wrote:
What else, if not situations where you have to consider many things and use some strategy, would require skill or be a challenge in your opinion?


+1

Just because you don't want to manage AoE skills when you're fighting amidst non-engaged mobs doesn't mean it's not a challenge. In fact it's just the opposite; you're admitting that you cannot overcome that challenge. You can either re-evaluate what skills you use and how you use them in order to avoid hitting non-engaged mobs, or you can pull your target mobs away from roamers so you can freely use AoE. Doing neither and complaining that it's too hard just shows that you're unwilling to try a new strategy.
#33 Feb 14 2011 at 12:50 PM Rating: Default
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Hydragyrum wrote:
RidingBean wrote:
What else, if not situations where you have to consider many things and use some strategy, would require skill or be a challenge in your opinion?


+1

Just because you don't want to manage AoE skills when you're fighting amidst non-engaged mobs doesn't mean it's not a challenge. In fact it's just the opposite; you're admitting that you cannot overcome that challenge. You can either re-evaluate what skills you use and how you use them in order to avoid hitting non-engaged mobs, or you can pull your target mobs away from roamers so you can freely use AoE. Doing neither and complaining that it's too hard just shows that you're unwilling to try a new strategy.


-What- challenge? This game provides no challenge or room for strategy when fighting most regular enemies.
You can pretty much kill anything yellow by spamming attacks and healing spells. The roaming mobs are rarely (if ever) stronger than the mobs you are fighting in the leve.

@#%^, casting debuffs proves pretty meaningless considering how fast the mobs go down. Even picking the right defensive skills or finding the right elemental weaknesses is quite redundant.

You want strategy? Make the enemies stronger, the battles longer and make them require more strategy. Don't just make some {decent} mobs pop on top of random {too weak to be worthwhile} passive enemies and claim that's the challenge. When its really nothing more than a minnor annoyance.

And I can't believe some people claimed that looking whether steadfast is on or not before using skull sunder is considering to have "skill". Seriously? To take a step to the side because SE was too lazy to make it more polished is what you consider that makes you a skilled player? Haha!

Half the time I don't give a flying @#%^ if steadfast is on because I know that if I just spam through my AOE skills the irrelevant mobs will end up dying as they are weaker than my actual target (by the way, this fills your TP bar in just a few AOE basic attacks which results in faster weaponskills and shorter battles, mister strategy guys). But the point is that I shouldn't have to deal with that.

Edited, Feb 14th 2011 1:52pm by MajidahSihaam

Edited, Feb 14th 2011 1:53pm by MajidahSihaam
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#34 Feb 14 2011 at 1:05 PM Rating: Good
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I guess I don't see what your problem is then. What's the point of this thread? You complain that mobs are too tightly bunched together so that using AoE skills will frequently hit non-engaged mobs, yet you also complain that those non-engaged mobs are so weak that you don't care if you AoE them.

Sure, doing a rank 30 leve is easy and the roaming mobs don't provide a challenge to a gang of 15 people. But I have a feeling when you get to a higher rank and do leves in dungeons or other higher level areas the roaming mobs will suddenly become something to avoid lest they kill you.

If your "fix" is to make roaming mobs so difficult that they're a challenge to a 15 person party, I feel sorry for any soloer who accidentally AoEs one. This is the thing called "balance" when you have solo content and large group content occupy the same landscape.

I think you just don't want to deal with AoE at all. In that case, I question why you chose to level Marauder, a highly AoE centered class in the first place.
#35 Feb 14 2011 at 1:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Hydragyrum wrote:
I guess I don't see what your problem is then. What's the point of this thread? You complain that mobs are too tightly bunched together so that using AoE skills will frequently hit non-engaged mobs, yet you also complain that those non-engaged mobs are so weak that you don't care if you AoE them.


mar 36 = no problem.
thm 33 = its a *****.

I was speaking about marauder as a bunch of people claimed that looking at steadfast required "skill", which is a luaghable statement.
On the other hand, it gets a lot nastier when you don't need the TP from extra mobs and when you don't have enough defense to endure it.

That aside, the current claim mode does not support this unpolished system. And I'm pretty sure no one can argue with that.

And finally, the mobs shouldn't be oblivious to the fight. Half the passive ones just wander into the AOE range like nothing's going on. But who needs game immersion, this is XIV.

Edited, Feb 14th 2011 2:15pm by MajidahSihaam
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#36 Feb 14 2011 at 2:16 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
-What- challenge? This game provides no challenge or room for strategy when fighting most regular enemies.

People in this thread seem to be struggling with occasionally taking a step to the left to avoid doing unintentional AoE attacks. Apparently, that is a challenge.

I agree that the system auto-triggering Steadfast isn't ideal. I also agree it's not a problem. Keeping a MRD's AoE in check is so painfully easy that it's just not something that should be a issue for anyone.
#37 Feb 14 2011 at 3:18 PM Rating: Good
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Caesura wrote:
Keeping a MRD's AoE in check is so painfully easy that it's just not something that should be a issue for anyone.

QTF

I know at least on my keyboard, the a and d keys still work while I'm tapping the number keys occasionally. I don't see what the big deal is.
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#38 Feb 14 2011 at 3:41 PM Rating: Default
33 posts
lols @ people thinking annoyances are challenges. Probably the same people who grind blues in behests because they're so hardcore and skilled.
#39 Feb 14 2011 at 3:54 PM Rating: Excellent
23 posts
ArchBlegan wrote:
irnick1985 wrote:
Just don't use aoe. it is simple. I say get rid of aoe cures makes the game way to easy.


Edited, Feb 14th 2011 3:16am by irnick1985

MRDs don't have a choice.


MRDs DO have a choice. Use your discretion when using Skull Sunder and Brutal Swing.

MRD decision tree:
1. Am I surrounded by monsters?
......NO - You can safely use Skull Sunder.
......YES - Am I under the effect of steadfast?
..........NO - You can safely use Skull Sunder.
..........YES - Use another WS like Trunksplitter. OR Take a step to the left or right so that you're not under steadfast.

It's not rocket science. Just be aware of your surroundings.
#40 Feb 14 2011 at 3:56 PM Rating: Default
33 posts
LadyDeathstrikeXIV wrote:
ArchBlegan wrote:
irnick1985 wrote:
Just don't use aoe. it is simple. I say get rid of aoe cures makes the game way to easy.


Edited, Feb 14th 2011 3:16am by irnick1985

MRDs don't have a choice.


MRDs DO have a choice. Use your discretion when using Skull Sunder and Brutal Swing.

MRD decision tree:
1. Am I surrounded by monsters?
......NO - You can safely use Skull Sunder.
......YES - Am I under the effect of steadfast?
..........NO - You can safely use Skull Sunder.
..........YES - Use another WS like Trunksplitter. OR Take a step to the left or right so that you're not under steadfast.

It's not rocket science. Just be aware of your surroundings.

How would the casters like it if every 5 seconds, their AoEs turned on and they needed to turn it off every time?

EDIT: And by the way, there isn't another WS "like" Trunksplitter until Maim.

Edited, Feb 14th 2011 4:56pm by ArchBlegan
#41 Feb 14 2011 at 4:22 PM Rating: Good
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ArchBlegan wrote:
lols @ people thinking annoyances are challenges. Probably the same people who grind blues in behests because they're so hardcore and skilled.

You're right that it's not challenging per say, (as in not brain surgery) but you have to admit it's more of a challenge than just standing in one spot spamming AOE.
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#42 Feb 14 2011 at 4:24 PM Rating: Good
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ArchBlegan wrote:

How would the casters like it if every 5 seconds, their AoEs turned on and they needed to turn it off every time?


If it's truly that hard for you to take a step to the left or right when you shouldn't be using AOE, maybe you should give more thought to weather or not you should be playing MRD. Just a thought.
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#43 Feb 14 2011 at 4:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
How would the casters like it if every 5 seconds, their AoEs turned on and they needed to turn it off every time?


Macros, please check them out.
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#44 Feb 14 2011 at 9:30 PM Rating: Good
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And if they fixed it so you could aoe everything you wanted with no penalty how long would it take before people were crying that mages were scooping up all the mobs in an area and blasting them to shreds. I'm a mage, and I have 0 issue with the current system. My only gripe is that I wish people weren't mentally disabled and knew wtf was going on during a behest.
#45 Feb 14 2011 at 9:59 PM Rating: Good
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Jefro420 wrote:
Yep, I do know marauder does AOE attacks when standing still. I also know that when playing marauder if I don't want to AOE, I should move around a bit. Problem solved. The solution is to use tactics, not nerf AOE.


That really isn't the problem. The problem is you get 0exp/sp for killing stuff with AOE outside of the group you are fighting. Why should people be penalized for killing things with an ability the game gives us? Why give us AOE abilities and then penalize us for using them?

Edited, Feb 14th 2011 11:01pm by Scape13
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#46 Feb 15 2011 at 2:26 AM Rating: Default
12 posts
ArchBlegan wrote:
irnick1985 wrote:
Just don't use aoe. it is simple. I say get rid of aoe cures makes the game way to easy.


Edited, Feb 14th 2011 3:16am by irnick1985

MRDs don't have a choice.


I am sorry. They need an aoe button.
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#47 Feb 15 2011 at 2:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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wrongfeifong wrote:
If you didn't notice, the engagement system is base on groups.

SP only NOT given if you engage something outside of the "group" If the group have 3 dodo,, aoe the 3 dodo will give you 3 set of SP.

But if you AOE a 4th dodo that isn't part of the group, you don't get SP.

The engagement system works this way because it is a way to prevent "summoner" burns from FFXI, of course "summoner" burns are also used in MANY mmorpg in other form, include DAOC, WoW, AC and many more.

Now the other issue is already fixed before your post. Monster that isn't under RED engagement is now non-xp. But when you engage it, the XP is base on the percentage of what it has remain.

for example 100% red engage give 500. but when you hit it under yellow for 50% hp and when you claim it red @ 50% will only net you 50% SP.

I think the engagement system is amazing in the sense of preventing CHEATER/Powerleveler.


I'm perfectly aware of how the engagement system works, but thanks.

It doesnt stop power levelling at all. You can powerlevel 14 characters with one high level character as the game currently stands. All the way into the 20's without too much issue. I'm assuming you are calling anyone that powerlevels a cheater so again it doesnt prevent this.

So all the engagement system does is annoy me when I've chosen a playstyle of AOE.

Maybe if the entire macro system was changed so instead of relying on AOE ON / AOE OFF we could

/ac "Dia II" <t> AOE

I would be more inclined to agree, but trying to manage AOE cures, and single target spells means massive pauses and repeated key presses to make sure all lines of a macro fired, or trying to check text.

Aside from that I dont see why I can't get SP proportional to damage dealt on non claimed mobs. I'm not asking to claim them, just to get SP for the damage I have dealt.

Edited, Feb 15th 2011 3:53am by Khaap

Edited, Feb 15th 2011 3:55am by Khaap
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#48 Feb 15 2011 at 3:42 AM Rating: Decent
33 posts
Jefro420 wrote:
ArchBlegan wrote:
lols @ people thinking annoyances are challenges. Probably the same people who grind blues in behests because they're so hardcore and skilled.

You're right that it's not challenging per say, (as in not brain surgery) but you have to admit it's more of a challenge than just standing in one spot spamming AOE.

Except I'm not spamming AoE, I'm using the most popular WS in the game, Skull Sunder. I don't know how many times that after I look up, see no Steadfast, ready Skull Sunder on a single mob and right as my stamina bar fills up enough to execute the skill, steadfast pops and I aggro some goat. I shouldn't have to wiggle my joystick, wait a few seconds for the laggy server to register my movement and get out of position every single time I want to use a 500TP WS that any other DoW class can use without any issues, that's ridiculous.

Plus, I rely on increased parry I get from steadfast because I'm normally solo'ing mobs well above my level. And SE gives MRDs no alternative to increase their parry otherwise, the only stat to not gain benefits from HQs and I've yet to see any piece of armor that adds parry. Fracture is also useless without steadfast minus the one time I get to use it after popping Foresight. I'm not being followed by goats all the time, but...

Do you really think MRDs having the ability to turn off AoE would turn this game into easy-mode or are you just one of those guys who's of the douche variety? Because I'm not going to admit it's more challenging because its not, anyone with common sense could figure that out, in fact it makes MRD less challenging because I might as well not bother with fracture because I get so few partial parries and it's back to the same old 1,1,2,1,1,2 with a little more wiggling of the joystick.
RedGalka wrote:
Quote:
How would the casters like it if every 5 seconds, their AoEs turned on and they needed to turn it off every time?


Macros, please check them out.

You should learn how to follow a conversation.
#49 Feb 15 2011 at 5:28 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
It doesnt stop power levelling at all. You can powerlevel 14 characters with one high level character as the game currently stands. All the way into the 20's without too much issue. I'm assuming you are calling anyone that powerlevels a cheater so again it doesnt prevent this.


Lol if you want to seriously discuss powerleveling then let's raise the cap a bit higher then 20, because SE is forcing the skill points down everyone's throat until 24~31.

Quote:
RedGalka wrote:

Quote:
How would the casters like it if every 5 seconds, their AoEs turned on and they needed to turn it off every time?

Macros, please check them out.

You should learn how to follow a conversation.


True I should be more carefull. Rushing to read and respond to Zam threads, while waiting for the next groupleve to start, does indeed make me a bit sloppy.
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#50 Feb 15 2011 at 6:19 AM Rating: Excellent
46 posts
[/quote]

edit:
also whats up with goats? they are realistic enough to follow a player but not realistic enough to run away in fear when the player swings his axe violently against other mobs?

Edited, Feb 13th 2011 11:43am by MajidahSihaam

Edited, Feb 13th 2011 2:35pm by MajidahSihaam [/quote]

I lol'd at this...but it's true. I don't mind the mobs following me, it makes the leves more of a challenge, but I can see how many people would hate it because sometimes it becomes annoying.

Im not sure how much programming would go into it, but I would love to see nannygoats run in fear as soon as I unsheathe my great axe.
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#51 Feb 15 2011 at 8:11 AM Rating: Decent
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602 posts
ArchBlegan wrote:
Jefro420 wrote:
ArchBlegan wrote:
lols @ people thinking annoyances are challenges. Probably the same people who grind blues in behests because they're so hardcore and skilled.

You're right that it's not challenging per say, (as in not brain surgery) but you have to admit it's more of a challenge than just standing in one spot spamming AOE.

Except I'm not spamming AoE, I'm using the most popular WS in the game, Skull Sunder. I don't know how many times that after I look up, see no Steadfast, ready Skull Sunder on a single mob and right as my stamina bar fills up enough to execute the skill, steadfast pops and I aggro some goat. I shouldn't have to wiggle my joystick, wait a few seconds for the laggy server to register my movement and get out of position every single time I want to use a 500TP WS that any other DoW class can use without any issues, that's ridiculous.

Plus, I rely on increased parry I get from steadfast because I'm normally solo'ing mobs well above my level. And SE gives MRDs no alternative to increase their parry otherwise, the only stat to not gain benefits from HQs and I've yet to see any piece of armor that adds parry. Fracture is also useless without steadfast minus the one time I get to use it after popping Foresight. I'm not being followed by goats all the time, but...

Do you really think MRDs having the ability to turn off AoE would turn this game into easy-mode or are you just one of those guys who's of the douche variety? Because I'm not going to admit it's more challenging because its not, anyone with common sense could figure that out, in fact it makes MRD less challenging because I might as well not bother with fracture because I get so few partial parries and it's back to the same old 1,1,2,1,1,2 with a little more wiggling of the joystick.


^This. God this. People who claim it involved skill need to read this sp freaking bad.


Edited, Feb 15th 2011 9:11am by MajidahSihaam
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