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Feature that surpise you! NO SMN BURN for you!Follow

#1 Feb 14 2011 at 7:32 AM Rating: Sub-Default
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I just notice, FFXIV just surprised me with the new engagement system.

I think everyone should know about it and thank SE for it. Why? It completely eliminated a powerlevel-technique that exist in the tradition MMORPG.

Mass AOE for experience.

The current engagement system works this way.

Monster come in "packs"/"group", you can only earn SP base on the "claimed monster in red" Any dmg dealt to yellow/normal monster will not be count even when you kill blow them.

If you dmg or someone dmg enough on the yellow monster, when you "claim" it, you will only earn percentage experiences base on what HP remain you took off the monster, if the monster is claim @ 50% hp, you will get 50% SP.

This "pack" engagement system, completely eliminate powerleveling because

You can not gain experience on other pack of monster even when you cast AOE killing 100 monsters in the radius.

Therefore, no SMN burn any longer.

If you don't know what a SMN burn, go google it. (P.S, SMN burn used to let players to level any job from 1-75 within 2-3 days worth of playing)

This powerleveling technique has been used in many MMORPG, include wow, daoc, AO...etc one way or another. SE just completely eliminated it.

Of course, time will tell what new power level way we players will invent.

Edited, Feb 14th 2011 8:34am by wrongfeifong
#2 Feb 14 2011 at 8:54 AM Rating: Default
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You can still "power level" in this game. In fact it' an intended mechanic. You can do it via leve linking. I got 70k sp in 90 minutes the other night.

Watch me hit 50 GLA in two days. :P

Edited, Feb 14th 2011 9:55am by Jefro420
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#3 Feb 14 2011 at 9:50 AM Rating: Good
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That's actually the major problem.

Many classes are built around AoE like Mrd. The problem is I lose SP from mobs by damaging them before they are claimed.

This means half of my skills of useless on a class that's built for mobbing.
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#4 Feb 14 2011 at 3:00 PM Rating: Decent
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I thought mana burn parties were based on killing 1 mob every cool down cycle by having 5 players use their big CD simultaneously. Not aoeing.

For example as bard I used to pull a crawler and then 5 black mages would use freeze at once and kill it in one hit. I would ballad and sleep it. Thus we would chain IT mobs and no one gets hit. I assumed SmN parties were the same
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#5 Feb 14 2011 at 3:10 PM Rating: Good
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KhaneOfRagnarok wrote:
I thought mana burn parties were based on killing 1 mob every cool down cycle by having 5 players use their big CD simultaneously. Not aoeing.

For example as bard I used to pull a crawler and then 5 black mages would use freeze at once and kill it in one hit. I would ballad and sleep it. Thus we would chain IT mobs and no one gets hit. I assumed SmN parties were the same

There were three styles of manaburn parties. The first is what you mentioned: timed manaburn parties that took advantage of a BLM's high spike damage output. Once you gained more levels however, a second form of manaburn parties (and solos) became possible due to BLMs gaining access to even more potent spike damage. In these parties, blms would "fire when ready", killing the mob long before it got near the party, meaning no need for coordinated strikes. The third type, however, was used generally only by BLMs who knew eachother well, and it was AoE manaburning, which was similar to the first method, but a BRD would pull several mobs at once, allowing BLMs to gain exp very quickly.

Of course, SMN Burns were something else entirely, as they directly exploited the claiming system. In a SMN burn, a high level "tank" (in quotes because it's more of a holder) would be outside of the party - and thus get no exp. He/she and several pullers would exploit the linking system to gather all of the monsters in the area around the tank. Then a party of low level SMNs (usually about 14) would use 2HR Astral Flows to kill all of the mobs at the same time. It would take several attacks, but due to the fact that Avatars disappeared after using an Astral Flow and all hate from an Astral Flow was directed at the Avater, not the SMN, the party of SMNs could continue attacking without fear of gaining any hate from the mobs. I am not an expert, but from my feeble recollections, on average, a SMN burn would accumulate approximately enough exp to bring a level 14 to level 25(ish) in around 10 minutes every 2HRs (unless you had a COR).

Edited, Feb 14th 2011 4:13pm by Hulan
#6 Feb 14 2011 at 3:14 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
That's actually the major problem.

Many classes are built around AoE like Mrd. The problem is I lose SP from mobs by damaging them before they are claimed.

This means half of my skills of useless on a class that's built for mobbing.

Just move around so you don't get steadfast, or equip different skills. If you're loosing SP because of your abilities, you need to adjust your play style.
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#7 Feb 14 2011 at 3:16 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, this is a terrible system and causes headaches in many situations. You can't even do a SMN burn without the very specific way hate is distributed for SMN avatars, so it's not like anything broken is being prevented.

Edited, Feb 14th 2011 4:17pm by Omena
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#8 Feb 14 2011 at 3:49 PM Rating: Decent
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wrongfeifong wrote:
I just notice, FFXIV just surprised me with the new engagement system.

I think everyone should know about it and thank SE for it. Why? It completely eliminated a powerlevel-technique that exist in the tradition MMORPG.

Mass AOE for experience.

The current engagement system works this way.

Monster come in "packs"/"group", you can only earn SP base on the "claimed monster in red" Any dmg dealt to yellow/normal monster will not be count even when you kill blow them.

If you dmg or someone dmg enough on the yellow monster, when you "claim" it, you will only earn percentage experiences base on what HP remain you took off the monster, if the monster is claim @ 50% hp, you will get 50% SP.

This "pack" engagement system, completely eliminate powerleveling because

You can not gain experience on other pack of monster even when you cast AOE killing 100 monsters in the radius.

Therefore, no SMN burn any longer.

If you don't know what a SMN burn, go google it. (P.S, SMN burn used to let players to level any job from 1-75 within 2-3 days worth of playing)

This powerleveling technique has been used in many MMORPG, include wow, daoc, AO...etc one way or another. SE just completely eliminated it.

Of course, time will tell what new power level way we players will invent.

Edited, Feb 14th 2011 8:34am by wrongfeifong


Big reason why 99% of SMNs were fing garbage in ffxi.
#9 Feb 14 2011 at 4:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Wow never did the astral burn. Did use the bomb fight with carby. Would get about double the exp some time max. Before TRAOU
#10wrongfeifong, Posted: Feb 14 2011 at 4:42 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Well some people *cough* me for example use SMN burn to bring my DRK up to 75 in a week *cough*.
#11 Feb 14 2011 at 4:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'd rather they allow SMN burns than have the current system in place.
The current system is god awful especially since so many classes are designed to use AOEs.
If 1 out of 100 members exploit the system so what, when 100 out of 100 people are punished that's stupid.

Especially during behest. By your reasoning AOEs shouldn't exist in the first place.
Marauder has a ton of AOEs, none of which can be used. AOEs should go well with the Risk vs Reward system, the more mobs you hit, the more you have to fight and kill. Mobs already give way less EXP the lower level they are, so your left to either AOE several weak mobs at <120 a kill, or fight tougher mobs for >300 a kil. It's all about pacing, except right now you can't use the aoe method.

The other problem with the current system is that exp awarded is based on the % of the HP remaining when the mob is claimed. So, say you get two mobs, you aoe them down, one dies, then you finish off the second. You fought the same mobs, but one will give full XP the other will give about a quarter of it. Why is that right?

I feel a sub default coming for this thread :P

Edited, Feb 14th 2011 5:46pm by Eadieni
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#12 Feb 14 2011 at 5:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jefro420 wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
That's actually the major problem.

Many classes are built around AoE like Mrd. The problem is I lose SP from mobs by damaging them before they are claimed.

This means half of my skills of useless on a class that's built for mobbing.

Just move around so you don't get steadfast, or equip different skills. If you're loosing SP because of your abilities, you need to adjust your play style.


Trammel II says hello.

Steadfast is supposed to be an advantagous buff, not a detriment. Don't try to tell me that I should be cancelling my buff. Mrd was meant to be a strong hitter with no maneuverability. So I guess also, I should be giving up my increased parry rate and put away my parry related abilities?

Steadfast is one of the few things that makes Mrd unique. Please don't try to defend the claim system, it's not working properly and anyone who does behest on Mrd knows this frustration.
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