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changing jobs on the spot? big fat lie.Follow

#52 Feb 16 2011 at 8:15 AM Rating: Default
LeilaniWildfire, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
I can't believe this is actually an issue... or maybe it is cos I don't play anything but mage jobs...

I actually haven't even noticed that it takes "oh so long" to change jobs... I think it actually takes no time at all.
If 1 minute 30 secs is too long to change your whole playstyle... Oh my dear god... Are you one of the MTV generation kids?


You did say it yourself, you play mostly mage jobs. Do you change a lot of abilities when you change from CON to THM? Or do you run pretty much the exact same thing? Because from what I have seen, I would most likely play both jobs the same (same ability set regardless of class). This alone reduces the time it takes to -truly- change classes.
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#53 Feb 16 2011 at 8:17 AM Rating: Decent
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reptiletim wrote:
Metin wrote:
The Mind boggles!

OMG its takes me a whole minute and a half to change jobs (and equipment and skills and specialise the job how I want) this is so broken! what a retarded peice of junk!


Well the way I like to play it takes a few seconds that is all and I can do it wherever and whenever I want. It is absolutely marvelous! I cannot believe how impatient people are. I'm NOT saying its perfect, it should remember your skills bars for each job.

The system isn't broken or retarded or lying to us. It needs a tweak, that is all.


WTF people? Is no one reading the ******* thread when they click that "Reply" button? I don't see anyone here so far saying they're going to quit the game over this. It's an inconvenience, yea, but come on. The complaints about this don't hold a candle to the complaints about the SP system as it was, market wards, and lack of content. Don't twist it, you're not Fox News.

Calling people whining children? Yea I guess we should all shut up and be thankful SE released the game at all, huh? Waiting over a minute using 4 macros to change job classes is so hardcore! My look at that e-peen grow! Troll harder folks. Don't blow the situation out of proportion to use as your personal soapbox about people that complain. It's easy to see that you're doing so to try and make yourself look important. You are not important and your gross exaggeration of the facts will only bring you negative attention.


If only you could follow your own advice....

Hugus wrote:
In regards to your comparison, if you don't want to take 1 and a half minutes unrapping a candy bar then just don't buy it. Buying it and then complaining about it just seems childlike.


As you can see, my coment about being childlike was in regards to a specific comparison and not to the game itself.

Quote:
Hydragyrum wrote:
I feel that I remember them mentioning they were working on "remembering" actions and traits upon class change.

Thinking about it now, I believe your right. This would at least ease the pain of changing on the fly.


I might be wrong but I think thia has been implemented. If I remember the before the first fixes everytime you changed between two DoH you needed to set all Godsend abilities even if both DoH had the same points available.

As it is at the moment if you change from a DoH with less available points (lower rank) to another with more points the abilities from the first will stay when u change to the higher rank DoH.
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#54 Feb 16 2011 at 8:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Hugus wrote:


Hugus wrote:
In regards to your comparison, if you don't want to take 1 and a half minutes unrapping a candy bar then just don't buy it. Buying it and then complaining about it just seems childlike.


As you can see, my coment about being childlike was in regards to a specific comparison and not to the game itself.


the point of which, by the way, you completely missed.

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#55 Feb 16 2011 at 8:30 AM Rating: Good
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LeilaniWildfire, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
I can't believe this is actually an issue... or maybe it is cos I don't play anything but mage jobs...

I actually haven't even noticed that it takes "oh so long" to change jobs... I think it actually takes no time at all.
If 1 minute 30 secs is too long to change your whole playstyle... Oh my dear god... Are you one of the MTV generation kids?


You did say it yourself, you play mostly mage jobs. Do you change a lot of abilities when you change from CON to THM? Or do you run pretty much the exact same thing? Because from what I have seen, I would most likely play both jobs the same (same ability set regardless of class). This alone reduces the time it takes to -truly- change classes.


Plaah, I knew my real point was going to be missed lol.
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#56 Feb 16 2011 at 8:34 AM Rating: Good
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The time it takes to switch jobs is not that big of deal for me...the problem is sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Too many times I have switched from DOL to DOW and its a crapshoot as to what abilities come over. Is it lag? Bad mechanics/coding? I do know we shouldn't have to babysit our macros and have to recheck things to make sure they are right. Its 2011...

Good news is...Yoshi has said its being addressed...so I guess we will see soon enough.
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#57 Feb 16 2011 at 8:37 AM Rating: Decent
LeilaniWildfire, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
LeilaniWildfire, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
I can't believe this is actually an issue... or maybe it is cos I don't play anything but mage jobs...

I actually haven't even noticed that it takes "oh so long" to change jobs... I think it actually takes no time at all.
If 1 minute 30 secs is too long to change your whole playstyle... Oh my dear god... Are you one of the MTV generation kids?


You did say it yourself, you play mostly mage jobs. Do you change a lot of abilities when you change from CON to THM? Or do you run pretty much the exact same thing? Because from what I have seen, I would most likely play both jobs the same (same ability set regardless of class). This alone reduces the time it takes to -truly- change classes.


Plaah, I knew my real point was going to be missed lol.


No I got your point, I was just curious about the mage thing because, I know it does effect a job change. Going from Tank > Melee DD > Archer > Mage any one of those changes takes some time. Macroing abilities shortens it, but it is just the simple fact that I have to make the macros, and even then I may not want those actions for my current situation.

Really spending a couple minutes changing classes isn't a big deal compared to having to run back to my mog house, but you would think that SE would implement a action set memory for each individual class. It wouldn't effect gameplay in any significant way and would ease the stress put on some players. Instant gratification is fine as long as it doesn't effect game balance.
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#58 Feb 16 2011 at 8:41 AM Rating: Decent
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@Hugus: thankyou for pointing out what I was about to to reptiletim. I was about to get my big flamethrower out and point out that I was simply paraphrasing the OP and a few other people but thankfully someone else has in fact been reading along.

@reptiletim: try actually making a point worthwhile for the discussion instead of being completely hypocritical. I have read every single comment on this thread.

My point: changing jobs on the spot doesnt mean instantly (as someone already pointed out) stop being impatient. It could do with a tweak and isnt 'broken' or 'retarded' or 'lying to us'
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#59 Feb 16 2011 at 8:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Almalexia wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
Why can't your whole action bar just change when you equip your weapon to change your class to the last way it was set up?

The last time this suggestion came up, some **** ******* claimed it was a bad idea. I don't remember why.

Edit: fixed to avoid offending people who hate convenience

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 7:23am by Almalexia


This irritates me to no end. Are you really that limited in your vocabulary?
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#60 Feb 16 2011 at 8:49 AM Rating: Good
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How far would you get grinding in that one minute and 30 seconds?

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#61 Feb 16 2011 at 8:54 AM Rating: Decent
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MensoMicona wrote:
Hugus wrote:


Hugus wrote:
In regards to your comparison, if you don't want to take 1 and a half minutes unrapping a candy bar then just don't buy it. Buying it and then complaining about it just seems childlike.


As you can see, my coment about being childlike was in regards to a specific comparison and not to the game itself.


the point of which, by the way, you completely missed.



I would actually appreciate if you can clearly make your point.
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#62 Feb 16 2011 at 9:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Jefro420 wrote:
How far would you get grinding in that one minute and 30 seconds?



Grinding? Not sure that's really the point. Changing "on the fly" means you are in a situation that requires you to switch jobs so you can defend yourself should be an instant change. For example..I'm mining, and I get wacked by a dog. I should be able to switch jobs and defend myself. But I can't. I have to run around while my macros fill in or if not fill in I just keep running. Not a big deal...just another head scratcher as to what SE was thinking when they designed this.

Its just another thing SE needs to fix. Chances are its not at the top of the list.


Edited, Feb 16th 2011 10:03am by Simool
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#63 Feb 16 2011 at 9:15 AM Rating: Good
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I minutes and 30 seconds seems 'on the fly' enough to me. How long did it take you in XI to change jobs? Honestly, what exactly are you missing out on in that one minute and 30 seconds?

If not dieing while mining is that important to you, take a friend or two with you to clear out the mobs while you mine. You could even take turns on the mining node.

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 10:17am by Jefro420
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#64 Feb 16 2011 at 9:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Just to give my opinion about the job change: It is working pretty well and is less time consumming than having to run (or warp back) to the mog house to change job. The difference disappears when discussing about gear adapted to the job you want to change to: If you don't have them on you when you want to change to the said-job, you still need to go to your retainer to get them.
However, what bothers me the most (and it's no even fully related to job change per se) is that it takes too long for the macros to actually switch the gears. I liked the gear swap macros in FFXI to optimize a spell/weapon skill.
So, the biggest advantage of this system is when you actually have the gears on you and everything is macroed. It is then much faster than in FFXI and you can still spend a few minutes to think about which skills would be appropriate to the current situation: 5minutes between the NPC popping and the start of a behest, the minutes spent organizing the party for the NMs (although I still have no experience in the NMs in FFXIV so can't really say if you have that much time before the actual fight).
I agree that it could be improved but as said before, you CAN change job on the spot (doesn't mean you are going to be the most efficient at it on the spot) but it will take some minutes to optimize it for a given situation. This is still, in most cases, faster than having to run back to mog house or to have to log another 'toon' with the proper job but who might not be at the proper location. At least, it's innovative and deserves (in my opinion) to be improved, not to be accused of being a 'lie'.
Of course, I am also mostly ranking DoM jobs right now. First because I prefer casters :D. Second, to avoid inconveniencies with the stat reallocation thingy (which will not really be a problem in the ranking up process as the stats will be capped for quite some time but will be bothersome for endgame stuff when needed to change jobs fast and still be as most efficient as possible). Third, I can still start ranking the DoW once I'm done with the DoMs, I do not think I really need to change job everyday and even more change multiple times per day.
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#65 Feb 16 2011 at 9:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
All class change macros are marked as Glad, Thau, Arch, Smth, Gold, whatever so on and so forth.
I use a second macro set to properly equip them with gear which takes quite literally 7 seconds to do. And I use four macros to cover all 18 jobs with proper equipment. How can you not do it in 10 seconds? It is so simple and easy.


Either you are a massive liar, or completely oblivious to how long things actually take. Swapping an entire gearset takes FAR more than 7 seconds. Not to mention, you are stunlocked for the duration of the change. Swapping 3 bars worth of actions and traits also takes a ridiculous amount of time. If you are saying you swap all your gear, all your actions and traits, and are done in 10 seconds, I am saying you are completely and utterly full of sh*t.

And why the **** are so many people defending this? You all are fine with added time sinks for absolutely no reason? I'll tell you what, if any person here can give me a good REASON why changing classes should take a minute and a half to fully swap, other than "it's not a big deal", then I will concede that you are right. Unfortunately, there is no reason. They've already limited class changes to outside of combat and passive mode. That is restrictive enough. It is such a pain in the *** to swap between say glad and con, especially considering on glad I use heavy stab as my main attack, which completely screws up my action bars every time I swap back because for some ridiculous reason it NEEDS to put light slash on my toolbar, and then refuses to put guard in the appropriate slot.

I agree with the poster that said it should be like WoW (gasp, i know) in that changing specs will save your action bars. It's not asking for much.

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 11:06am by BartelX
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#66 Feb 16 2011 at 9:59 AM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:
Quote:
All class change macros are marked as Glad, Thau, Arch, Smth, Gold, whatever so on and so forth.
I use a second macro set to properly equip them with gear which takes quite literally 7 seconds to do. And I use four macros to cover all 18 jobs with proper equipment. How can you not do it in 10 seconds? It is so simple and easy.


Either you are a massive liar, or completely oblivious to how long things actually take. Swapping an entire gearset takes FAR more than 7 seconds. Not to mention, you are stunlocked for the duration of the change. Swapping 3 bars worth of actions and traits also takes a ridiculous amount of time. If you are saying you swap all your gear, all your actions and traits, and are done in 10 seconds, I am saying you are completely and utterly full of sh*t.


i just did a gear change macro, took 7 seconds to change all my gear....sounds accurate to me
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#67 Feb 16 2011 at 10:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Hugus wrote:
MensoMicona wrote:
Hugus wrote:


Hugus wrote:
In regards to your comparison, if you don't want to take 1 and a half minutes unrapping a candy bar then just don't buy it. Buying it and then complaining about it just seems childlike.


As you can see, my coment about being childlike was in regards to a specific comparison and not to the game itself.


the point of which, by the way, you completely missed.



I would actually appreciate if you can clearly make your point.


Dont really see the use of it because u already proven that ur not open to complaining but anyway; people should not be frowned upon if they are complaining about something that could be much better with marginal effort.

And about the 1 minute 30 thing; its not about the ******* length its just the fact that takes long because its a system that is flawed and could use some work.
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#68 Feb 16 2011 at 10:07 AM Rating: Good
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Vedis wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Quote:
All class change macros are marked as Glad, Thau, Arch, Smth, Gold, whatever so on and so forth.
I use a second macro set to properly equip them with gear which takes quite literally 7 seconds to do. And I use four macros to cover all 18 jobs with proper equipment. How can you not do it in 10 seconds? It is so simple and easy.


Either you are a massive liar, or completely oblivious to how long things actually take. Swapping an entire gearset takes FAR more than 7 seconds. Not to mention, you are stunlocked for the duration of the change. Swapping 3 bars worth of actions and traits also takes a ridiculous amount of time. If you are saying you swap all your gear, all your actions and traits, and are done in 10 seconds, I am saying you are completely and utterly full of sh*t.


i just did a gear change macro, took 7 seconds to change all my gear....sounds accurate to me


You are completely full of **** then. I just did mine, and it took 20 seconds to finish. And no it's not my computer or lag, I'm running a very high end comp and I did it in the middle of nowhere.
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#69 Feb 16 2011 at 10:09 AM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:
Vedis wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Quote:
All class change macros are marked as Glad, Thau, Arch, Smth, Gold, whatever so on and so forth.
I use a second macro set to properly equip them with gear which takes quite literally 7 seconds to do. And I use four macros to cover all 18 jobs with proper equipment. How can you not do it in 10 seconds? It is so simple and easy.


Either you are a massive liar, or completely oblivious to how long things actually take. Swapping an entire gearset takes FAR more than 7 seconds. Not to mention, you are stunlocked for the duration of the change. Swapping 3 bars worth of actions and traits also takes a ridiculous amount of time. If you are saying you swap all your gear, all your actions and traits, and are done in 10 seconds, I am saying you are completely and utterly full of sh*t.


i just did a gear change macro, took 7 seconds to change all my gear....sounds accurate to me


You are completely full of sh*t then. I just did mine, and it took 20 seconds to finish. And no it's not my computer or lag, I'm running a very high end comp and I did it in the middle of nowhere.


i dont know what to tell you then
are you using wait commands in there to stall it?
there has to be some reason you take 2-3 times the time to change gear then the rest of us
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#70 Feb 16 2011 at 10:12 AM Rating: Good
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No wait commands. Are you changing your rings too and all of your other equipment? To go from glad to con, I change out EVERY piece of gear besides undies, and that takes a long time. If you are changing all that, there is absolutely no way it is taking you 7 seconds. I know this firsthand because I've watched COUNTLESS other people do full gear swaps (you can tell because if you target them your head moves every time they equip a new piece) and for every one of them it takes 15 seconds minimum if they are changing out a full set. I just took a stopwatch to it, and it was just over 18.5 seconds.

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 11:13am by BartelX
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#71 Feb 16 2011 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
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My question still remains, what exactly are you missing out on in the time it takes you to change jobs that deserves this much complaint?

The fact remains that the armory system is really innovative for an MMO, yes it can be improved, gear and actions could be saved per class (which from what I understand is coming at some point) but the system is innovative and is working quite well as it stands.

You guys are making much to do about nothing.
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#72 Feb 16 2011 at 10:17 AM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:
No wait commands. Are you changing your rings too and all of your other equipment? To go from glad to con, I change out EVERY piece of gear besides undies, and that takes a long time. If you are changing all that, there is absolutely no way it is taking you 7 seconds. I know this firsthand because I've watched COUNTLESS other people do full gear swaps (you can tell because if you target them your head moves every time they equip a new piece) and for every one of them it takes 15 seconds minimum if they are changing out a full set. I just took a stopwatch to it, and it was just over 18.5 seconds.

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 11:13am by BartelX


no im not changing rings

from what ive seen it takes 1 second per piece of gear or roughly that long to change so if you are changing 20 pieces...20 seconds sounds accurate, and is honestly nothing to complain about
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#73 Feb 16 2011 at 10:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Jefro420 wrote:
My question still remains, what exactly are you missing out on in the time it takes you to change jobs that deserves this much complaint?

The fact remains that the armory system is really innovative for an MMO, yes it can be improved, gear and actions could be saved per class (which from what I understand is coming at some point) but the system is innovative and is working quite well as it stands.

You guys are making much to do about nothing.


I'm guessing you had no complains about the market wards as they were on release since they were really innovative and also had room for improvement, right?
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#74 Feb 16 2011 at 10:25 AM Rating: Good
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The option to save stats and actions per class would make class changes much more efficient. Should be pointed out in the feedback forum though. Would avoid the this system sucks bit, however, and make it a constructive post on a way to improove efficiency for changing classes in the field.

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 11:28am by Spyrit178
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#75 Feb 16 2011 at 10:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
i just did a gear change macro, took 7 seconds to change all my gear....sounds accurate to me

Poor girl. Obviously, the only equipment she has is her LV 1 starter Belt.
Which she switches in and out all day. With her 1-liner macro. 24/7.

Quote:
no im not changing rings
from what ive seen it takes 1 second per piece of gear or roughly that long to change so if you are changing 20 pieces...20 seconds sounds accurate, and is honestly nothing to complain about

Say, you sure are flexible in your perception of reality.

On top of that some of us have more than a LV 1 Marauder tied to their
account, so you have to add ability and trait change macros as well.

I agree that it's not on top of the priority list at the moment, but
nonetheless, I consider it a daily hassle that has no right to exist
in a well-polished product (the likes of which SE used to produce
more than a decade ago).


Edited, Feb 16th 2011 11:39am by Rinsui
#76 Feb 16 2011 at 10:50 AM Rating: Decent
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MensoMicona wrote:
Hugus wrote:
MensoMicona wrote:
Hugus wrote:


Hugus wrote:
In regards to your comparison, if you don't want to take 1 and a half minutes unrapping a candy bar then just don't buy it. Buying it and then complaining about it just seems childlike.


As you can see, my coment about being childlike was in regards to a specific comparison and not to the game itself.


the point of which, by the way, you completely missed.



I would actually appreciate if you can clearly make your point.


Dont really see the use of it because u already proven that ur not open to complaining but anyway; people should not be frowned upon if they are complaining about something that could be much better with marginal effort.

And about the 1 minute 30 thing; its not about the ******* length its just the fact that takes long because its a system that is flawed and could use some work.


LOL

So first I missed your point and now that I asked you to make it clear so I can understand it you wont because I'm the one who is not open to other's points of view???????

At least I'm actually interested in understanding other's points of view even if I don't agree with them.

You apparently, just wanna keep hitting your head on the wall and scream I want I want I want.
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#77 Feb 16 2011 at 10:51 AM Rating: Good
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Vedis wrote:
BartelX wrote:
No wait commands. Are you changing your rings too and all of your other equipment? To go from glad to con, I change out EVERY piece of gear besides undies, and that takes a long time. If you are changing all that, there is absolutely no way it is taking you 7 seconds. I know this firsthand because I've watched COUNTLESS other people do full gear swaps (you can tell because if you target them your head moves every time they equip a new piece) and for every one of them it takes 15 seconds minimum if they are changing out a full set. I just took a stopwatch to it, and it was just over 18.5 seconds.

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 11:13am by BartelX


no im not changing rings

from what ive seen it takes 1 second per piece of gear or roughly that long to change so if you are changing 20 pieces...20 seconds sounds accurate, and is honestly nothing to complain about


Why is it nothing to complain about? In ffxi, swapping ANY amount of gear was instant. That game was released almost 10 years ago. Plus, since you did decide to nitpick my original comment and exclude the other 3 macros required to change classes, you are still missing the point that it takes almost 2 full minutes to swap classes. Oh btw, this doesn't even include if I want to reallocate my stats to go from gla to con. Add in another 3 minutes on top of that... so now we're talking almost 5 minutes to effectively change classes. Yep, that sure is working great.

The problem with so many people here is that instead of giving out constructive criticism on things, many people just say stuff like "it's not a big deal" or "it's not that bad", and then it ends up never getting fixed. I'm sorry if I want things to consistently improve and be more than just "acceptable", which to be quite honest, I don't even think can be said of the current class swap system. The armory system might be innovative, but when you bog it down with unnecessary time-sinks and chores like stat reallocation, it loses it luster very quickly.
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#78 Feb 16 2011 at 10:55 AM Rating: Decent
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If you are serious in wanting to make a relevant topic about something that should or needs to be change I'll tell you what I always say:

Take it to the Feedback forum, thats where it should be.
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#79 Feb 16 2011 at 10:57 AM Rating: Good
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pretty sure the devs have already talked about allowing people to save ability set-ups
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#80 Feb 16 2011 at 10:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hugus wrote:
If you are serious in wanting to make a relevant topic about something that should or needs to be change I'll tell you what I always say:

Take it to the Feedback forum, thats where it should be.


This.

If you post things in the main forum you are looking for attention, not change.
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#81 Feb 16 2011 at 10:58 AM Rating: Good
So I have a dog that took a **** in the kitchen floor, then stepped on it and ran around the whole god **** house so there was **** everywhere. BUT before I started cleaning up the mess I started to fix my toaster because the bread I was toasting the morning came out a bit burned.

This is such a minor thing in the scale of stuff that needs to be fixed on FFXIV, why it is getting people so worked up on?
Yeah, ok we could cut down let's say a minute of your gear swapping but for Gods sake, don't you think this is a bit stupid?

BUT I WANT TO CHANGE RIGHT NOW, NOT 2 MINUTES LATER... NOOWWWW!!!! Smiley: lol
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#82 Feb 16 2011 at 11:03 AM Rating: Good
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MajidahSihaam wrote:
Jefro420 wrote:
My question still remains, what exactly are you missing out on in the time it takes you to change jobs that deserves this much complaint?

The fact remains that the armory system is really innovative for an MMO, yes it can be improved, gear and actions could be saved per class (which from what I understand is coming at some point) but the system is innovative and is working quite well as it stands.

You guys are making much to do about nothing.


I'm guessing you had no complains about the market wards as they were on release since they were really innovative and also had room for improvement, right?

Not at all, I had a huge list of complaints about the market wards. But it took over an hour in some cases to find a particular piece of gear, in that case the additional time was cutting into my play time in a significant way. A few extra seconds changing jobs, is not even an issue by comparison.

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 12:11pm by Jefro420
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#83 Feb 16 2011 at 11:03 AM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:
Vedis wrote:
BartelX wrote:
No wait commands. Are you changing your rings too and all of your other equipment? To go from glad to con, I change out EVERY piece of gear besides undies, and that takes a long time. If you are changing all that, there is absolutely no way it is taking you 7 seconds. I know this firsthand because I've watched COUNTLESS other people do full gear swaps (you can tell because if you target them your head moves every time they equip a new piece) and for every one of them it takes 15 seconds minimum if they are changing out a full set. I just took a stopwatch to it, and it was just over 18.5 seconds.

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 11:13am by BartelX


no im not changing rings

from what ive seen it takes 1 second per piece of gear or roughly that long to change so if you are changing 20 pieces...20 seconds sounds accurate, and is honestly nothing to complain about


Why is it nothing to complain about? In ffxi, swapping ANY amount of gear was instant. That game was released almost 10 years ago. Plus, since you did decide to nitpick my original comment and exclude the other 3 macros required to change classes, you are still missing the point that it takes almost 2 full minutes to swap classes. Oh btw, this doesn't even include if I want to reallocate my stats to go from gla to con. Add in another 3 minutes on top of that... so now we're talking almost 5 minutes to effectively change classes. Yep, that sure is working great.

The problem with so many people here is that instead of giving out constructive criticism on things, many people just say stuff like "it's not a big deal" or "it's not that bad", and then it ends up never getting fixed. I'm sorry if I want things to consistently improve and be more than just "acceptable", which to be quite honest, I don't even think can be said of the current class swap system. The armory system might be innovative, but when you bog it down with unnecessary time-sinks and chores like stat reallocation, it loses it luster very quickly.


wait you could swap out every piece of gear in 11 in a single instant? i sure as **** dont remember that
and im not excluding your ability macros either, but you seriously need 3 bars of abilities for every class? i just dont see how anyone needs THAT MANY abilities. Sure I can understand a few swaps, but everything sounds a bit overkill.

but lets face it, in the end, and this is the main point i wanna get at.....how many games let you change classes at all, let alone have it take even a minute or 2 in the field, anywhere in the game for that matter, just because you feel like changing your job? name them, please name them all.
the minute or so it takes you to change it may seem like its a hassle, but in fact, the entire system itself is a bonus that only this game can bring you, not everything can be all peaches and cream and you have to take some bad with the good(personaly, i dont see the minute changing as a bad thing, its a friggin minute, i mean come on)


as to those who feel like tossing insults around in this thread (you know who you are) grow up, some of us are having a more civilized conversation here and discussing the topic itself.
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#84 Feb 16 2011 at 11:08 AM Rating: Default
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Hugus wrote:
MensoMicona wrote:
Hugus wrote:
MensoMicona wrote:
Hugus wrote:


Hugus wrote:
In regards to your comparison, if you don't want to take 1 and a half minutes unrapping a candy bar then just don't buy it. Buying it and then complaining about it just seems childlike.


As you can see, my coment about being childlike was in regards to a specific comparison and not to the game itself.


the point of which, by the way, you completely missed.



I would actually appreciate if you can clearly make your point.


Dont really see the use of it because u already proven that ur not open to complaining but anyway; people should not be frowned upon if they are complaining about something that could be much better with marginal effort.

And about the 1 minute 30 thing; its not about the ******* length its just the fact that takes long because its a system that is flawed and could use some work.


LOL

So first I missed your point and now that I asked you to make it clear so I can understand it you wont because I'm the one who is not open to other's points of view???????

At least I'm actually interested in understanding other's points of view even if I don't agree with them.

You apparently, just wanna keep hitting your head on the wall and scream I want I want I want.


"people should not be frowned upon if they are complaining about something that could be much better with marginal effort."

is what i meant with the comparison you mongrel.
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#85 Feb 16 2011 at 11:09 AM Rating: Good
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Vedis wrote:


wait you could swap out every piece of gear in 11 in a single instant? i sure as **** dont remember that
and im not excluding your ability macros either, but you seriously need 3 bars of abilities for every class? i just dont see how anyone needs THAT MANY abilities. Sure I can understand a few swaps, but everything sounds a bit overkill.

but lets face it, in the end, and this is the main point i wanna get at.....how many games let you change classes at all, let alone have it take even a minute or 2 in the field, anywhere in the game for that matter, just because you feel like changing your job? name them, please name them all.
the minute or so it takes you to change it may seem like its a hassle, but in fact, the entire system itself is a bonus that only this game can bring you, not everything can be all peaches and cream and you have to take some bad with the good(personaly, i dont see the minute changing as a bad thing, its a friggin minute, i mean come on)


as to those who feel like tossing insults around in this thread (you know who you are) grow up, some of us are having a more civilized conversation here and discussing the topic itself.

This this, a thousand times this.

There are far bigger fish to fry in terms of future development on this game than this (non)issue. We've been told the annoyances with the current system will be fixed. For all we know the changes could be in the next patch.
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#86 Feb 16 2011 at 11:13 AM Rating: Decent
Vedis wrote:
wait you could swap out every piece of gear in 11 in a single instant? i sure as **** dont remember that
and im not excluding your ability macros either, but you seriously need 3 bars of abilities for every class? i just dont see how anyone needs THAT MANY abilities. Sure I can understand a few swaps, but everything sounds a bit overkill.

but lets face it, in the end, and this is the main point i wanna get at.....how many games let you change classes at all, let alone have it take even a minute or 2 in the field, anywhere in the game for that matter, just because you feel like changing your job? name them, please name them all.
the minute or so it takes you to change it may seem like its a hassle, but in fact, the entire system itself is a bonus that only this game can bring you, not everything can be all peaches and cream and you have to take some bad with the good(personaly, i dont see the minute changing as a bad thing, its a friggin minute, i mean come on)


as to those who feel like tossing insults around in this thread (you know who you are) grow up, some of us are having a more civilized conversation here and discussing the topic itself.

Yes, you -could- swap out up to seven pieces instantly. There was no requirement for the /wait command between /equip commands. Because it was -instant- it was actually worthwhile to use -more- gear per class than you could actually wear at any one time, swapping Store TP for STR on Samurai right before using a weapon skill is a great example. Do you think I would have bothered if it took 7-20 seconds to change gear? Gear changes made a huge difference in how effective a job could be. Maybe this isn't important now, but in the future I can see gear changes being important. And so far not being able to change gear while in active mode is not very appealing either.

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 12:14pm by StateAlchemist2

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 12:14pm by StateAlchemist2

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 12:15pm by StateAlchemist2
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#87 Feb 16 2011 at 11:16 AM Rating: Decent
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462 posts
I'm shocked at the amount of "White Knighting" that is occuring in this thread...

I too was misled by the "Changing jobs on the spot" that we were promised... I think I was anticipating that I could be mid fight as my Lancer... and OHNO! The tank died!! and switch roles immediatly to the tank and pick up hate control~

To me- that sounds fun, exciting, interactive... instead.. we just have a system where I can choose a job for a fight before hand.....

Which is okay!! but I do wish the changes were quicker...
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#88 Feb 16 2011 at 11:21 AM Rating: Decent
MaverickBG wrote:
I too was misled by the "Changing jobs on the spot" that we were promised... I think I was anticipating that I could be mid fight as my Lancer... and OHNO! The tank died!! and switch roles immediatly to the tank and pick up hate control~


^This

*is someone really being a rate down troll? my previous post was in no way offensive or any thing else besides explaining an answer that someone didnt understand, if that warrents me being rated down, I think id rather be sub-default and helpful, then excellent and rude*

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 12:23pm by StateAlchemist2
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#89 Feb 16 2011 at 11:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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800 posts
Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:

Yes, you -could- swap out up to seven pieces instantly. There was no requirement for the /wait command between /equip commands. Because it was -instant- it was actually worthwhile to use -more- gear per class than you could actually wear at any one time, swapping Store TP for STR on Samurai right before using a weapon skill is a great example. Do you think I would have bothered if it took 7-20 seconds to change gear? Gear changes made a huge difference in how effective a job could be. Maybe this isn't important now, but in the future I can see gear changes being important. And so far not being able to change gear while in active mode is not very appealing either.


Doesn't this tell you that SE does not want us to be swapping gear to the extent that FFXI took it? You have to admit that gear swaps were a bit on the ridiculous side in FFXI when mages were concerned. I remember having 3-4 different pieces of gear per slot for my RDM, not counting staves, wands, etc. FFXI is the only game I've played where gear swapping mid-fight was allowed much less required for difficult content.

I see gear swapping being important in that you may have a set for one particular event (NM), and another set for a totally different event (grind party). But for the simple fact that we cannot change gear while in active mode shows how gear swapping is fundamentally different than in FFXI. I can understand that it may be difficult to adjust, but remember that this is a different game. There are different mechanics at work.
#90 Feb 16 2011 at 11:24 AM Rating: Good
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6,898 posts
Hugus wrote:
If you are serious in wanting to make a relevant topic about something that should or needs to be change I'll tell you what I always say:

Take it to the Feedback forum, thats where it should be.


I've done that. Several times. I'm commenting in someone elses thread, which happens to be in the main forum. Don't tell me where I can and can't post. If you know ANYTHING about me, you'd know that I quite regularly post in forum feedback with suggestions and improvements, and have done so on this matter.

I love how people think it's "stupid" to want improvements to a system. Will this make or break the game? Certainly not. Am I demanding that it be rectified or I'll quit? Nope. Do I feel that this should be something that gets improved upon or corrected? **** straight I do.

Vedis wrote:
wait you could swap out every piece of gear in 11 in a single instant? i sure as **** dont remember that
and im not excluding your ability macros either, but you seriously need 3 bars of abilities for every class? i just dont see how anyone needs THAT MANY abilities. Sure I can understand a few swaps, but everything sounds a bit overkill.

but lets face it, in the end, and this is the main point i wanna get at.....how many games let you change classes at all, let alone have it take even a minute or 2 in the field, anywhere in the game for that matter, just because you feel like changing your job? name them, please name them all.
the minute or so it takes you to change it may seem like its a hassle, but in fact, the entire system itself is a bonus that only this game can bring you, not everything can be all peaches and cream and you have to take some bad with the good(personaly, i dont see the minute changing as a bad thing, its a friggin minute, i mean come on)


as to those who feel like tossing insults around in this thread (you know who you are) grow up, some of us are having a more civilized conversation here and discussing the topic itself.


In ffxi, with windower you could do it instantly w/ 1 macro. Without windower it took 2 macros and *gasp* 2 seconds.

As for abilities, yes I do need 3 bars, and I use them all. If you don't, that's fine, but if I have the action points, I will put them to good use. I can give you a rundown of every action I have equipped on my bar and how often I use them if ya want.

And once again, it's not the "minute or so". It's the minute and a half JUST for abilities and gear, and the 3+ mins for stat reallocation. Yes I could go without reallocating my stats, but since my main job is a glad and I try and max out my VIT and STR, it makes my CON pretty pathetic when I swap if I don't reallocate. So now, we are talking almost 5 minutes to do my job at a decent level on each class.


Vedis wrote:
There are far bigger fish to fry in terms of future development on this game than this (non)issue. We've been told the annoyances with the current system will be fixed. For all we know the changes could be in the next patch.


Why is this not sinking in? I'm not saying this is the biggest concern for the devs. But saying it is a non-issue is just ridiculous. It is a pain in the *** to swap classes currently. Yes its awesome that we are able to do it at all... but improving it will only make that even BETTER. Just because it's not the number 1 concern for the devs doesn't mean we should ignore it.
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#91 Feb 16 2011 at 11:26 AM Rating: Good
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462 posts
Hydragyrum wrote:
Doesn't this tell you that SE does not want us to be swapping gear to the extent that FFXI took it? You have to admit that gear swaps were a bit on the ridiculous side in FFXI when mages were concerned. I remember having 3-4 different pieces of gear per slot for my RDM, not counting staves, wands, etc. FFXI is the only game I've played where gear swapping mid-fight was allowed much less required for difficult content.

I see gear swapping being important in that you may have a set for one particular event (NM), and another set for a totally different event (grind party). But for the simple fact that we cannot change gear while in active mode shows how gear swapping is fundamentally different than in FFXI. I can understand that it may be difficult to adjust, but remember that this is a different game. There are different mechanics at work.


Oh without a doubt!

Personally- I liked the "switching"... I felt that it added a much different touch to the style of game.... but again.. its a different game.. different mechanics like you said, and I'm 100% okay with accepting that!!

I was thinking about this the other day actually- and if they could just switch all your gear in one burst.. I think things would go easier than the line by line thing thats happening now...

But like many people pointed out- this is realistically a pretty minor thing.... I think the OP's major concern is that he isn't able to seamlessly hop between classes- which I think is a legit issue- so take it to the feedback forum!!
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#92 Feb 16 2011 at 11:26 AM Rating: Default
Hydragyrum wrote:
Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:

Yes, you -could- swap out up to seven pieces instantly. There was no requirement for the /wait command between /equip commands. Because it was -instant- it was actually worthwhile to use -more- gear per class than you could actually wear at any one time, swapping Store TP for STR on Samurai right before using a weapon skill is a great example. Do you think I would have bothered if it took 7-20 seconds to change gear? Gear changes made a huge difference in how effective a job could be. Maybe this isn't important now, but in the future I can see gear changes being important. And so far not being able to change gear while in active mode is not very appealing either.


Doesn't this tell you that SE does not want us to be swapping gear to the extent that FFXI took it? You have to admit that gear swaps were a bit on the ridiculous side in FFXI when mages were concerned. I remember having 3-4 different pieces of gear per slot for my RDM, not counting staves, wands, etc. FFXI is the only game I've played where gear swapping mid-fight was allowed much less required for difficult content.

I see gear swapping being important in that you may have a set for one particular event (NM), and another set for a totally different event (grind party). But for the simple fact that we cannot change gear while in active mode shows how gear swapping is fundamentally different than in FFXI. I can understand that it may be difficult to adjust, but remember that this is a different game. There are different mechanics at work.


Yeah, there were a few times when I got a bit tired of it, especially the stain on inventory space it caused. At the same time I thought it was kind of cool too, because it allowed you to really get the most out of all your abilitys and such. I guess it has to be one or the other. I am not really sure what they plan to do with the battle system, so I don't wanna say I want it changed, or that I don't like it, because there is really no reason for any gear swaps currently.
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#93 Feb 16 2011 at 11:27 AM Rating: Good
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There is nothing to sink in, you guys are complaining about a few extra seconds changing classes, which is ridiculous.
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#94 Feb 16 2011 at 11:28 AM Rating: Good
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Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
MaverickBG wrote:
I too was misled by the "Changing jobs on the spot" that we were promised... I think I was anticipating that I could be mid fight as my Lancer... and OHNO! The tank died!! and switch roles immediatly to the tank and pick up hate control~


^This

*is someone really being a rate down troll? my previous post was in no way offensive or any thing else besides explaining an answer that someone didnt understand, if that warrents me being rated down, I think id rather be sub-default and helpful, then excellent and rude*

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 12:23pm by StateAlchemist2


I rated you back up. I think it's the people who don't actually post that do most of the rating down. The rest of us realize this is a civil discussion that doesn't require red arrows.
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#95 Feb 16 2011 at 11:28 AM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:
Vedis wrote:
There are far bigger fish to fry in terms of future development on this game than this (non)issue. We've been told the annoyances with the current system will be fixed. For all we know the changes could be in the next patch.


Why is this not sinking in? I'm not saying this is the biggest concern for the devs. But saying it is a non-issue is just ridiculous. It is a pain in the *** to swap classes currently. Yes its awesome that we are able to do it at all... but improving it will only make that even BETTER. Just because it's not the number 1 concern for the devs doesn't mean we should ignore it.


the thing is some of us arent fighting to say its fine as is, it needs no improvement
we are just amazed at all the people talking about how fail it is, how the game sucks more because of it etc etc
they dont see any good in the system at all and thereforejust must bash every little thing they can find and take it out of proprortions

there is no denying the fact that there is ALWAYS room for improvement in everything every game puts out, but there comes a point when the complaining about every little thing people can find like its some game breaking bug just gets out of hand if ya know what i mean
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#96 Feb 16 2011 at 11:30 AM Rating: Good
I want to be able to teleport to Nodes without having to go to camp first because it will save me time to change my job!!!!!
lol

(yes, I am just bored)
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#97 Feb 16 2011 at 11:31 AM Rating: Default
MaverickBG wrote:
I was thinking about this the other day actually- and if they could just switch all your gear in one burst.. I think things would go easier than the line by line thing thats happening now...


The only reason I think it does the "line-by-line" thing is -because- a slight /wait is built-in between lines (unlike ffxi). Sicne there was no /wait built-in in FFXI and you didn't have to put one in yourself all the /equips triggered near simultaneously, so the character model only disappeared once to load the new stuff. But now that there is a micro-wait in between macro lines, it can't trigger all of the /equips at the same time, so it reads /equip and executes it before it gets a chance to read the second /equip.
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#98 Feb 16 2011 at 11:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
MaverickBG wrote:
I was thinking about this the other day actually- and if they could just switch all your gear in one burst.. I think things would go easier than the line by line thing thats happening now...


The only reason I think it does the "line-by-line" thing is -because- a slight /wait is built-in between lines (unlike ffxi). Sicne there was no /wait built-in in FFXI and you didn't have to put one in yourself all the /equips triggered near simultaneously, so the character model only disappeared once to load the new stuff. But now that there is a micro-wait in between macro lines, it can't trigger all of the /equips at the same time, so it reads /equip and executes it before it gets a chance to read the second /equip.


this makes alot of sense amd i understand why they did it on some levels

having to put wait in between everything in 11 was annoying
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#99 Feb 16 2011 at 11:38 AM Rating: Decent
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6,898 posts
Jefro420 wrote:
There is nothing to sink in, you guys are complaining about a few extra seconds changing classes, which is ridiculous.


Why is it ridiculous? Because you're content, everyone else should be? Sorry, that's not how the world works buddy.

Vedis wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Vedis wrote:
There are far bigger fish to fry in terms of future development on this game than this (non)issue. We've been told the annoyances with the current system will be fixed. For all we know the changes could be in the next patch.


Why is this not sinking in? I'm not saying this is the biggest concern for the devs. But saying it is a non-issue is just ridiculous. It is a pain in the *** to swap classes currently. Yes its awesome that we are able to do it at all... but improving it will only make that even BETTER. Just because it's not the number 1 concern for the devs doesn't mean we should ignore it.


the thing is some of us arent fighting to say its fine as is, it needs no improvement
we are just amazed at all the people talking about how fail it is, how the game sucks more because of it etc etc
they dont see any good in the system at all and thereforejust must bash every little thing they can find and take it out of proprortions

there is no denying the fact that there is ALWAYS room for improvement in everything every game puts out, but there comes a point when the complaining about every little thing people can find like its some game breaking bug just gets out of hand if ya know what i mean


Then perhaps your argument is not with me. I certainly don't think the system is fail, just slightly flawed. I'd like improvements to make it better. But when people say stuff like this:

Quote:

I want to be able to teleport to Nodes without having to go to camp first because it will save me time to change my job!!!!!
lol

(yes, I am just bored)


See, now this is the kind of comment that just irritates me. It's an extremist comment and is completely unneccessary. It's these people who think that because someone wants small improvements in something, they must just want the game to be easy mode and have everything given to them on a platter. Sorry, that's not the case and it's comments like these that just exacerbate the argument.

What I'm asking for is the reduction of a useless time sink. It does nothing to imbalance the game. You still wouldn't be able to change classes mid battle, and tbh, changing gear mid battle still wouldn't be necessary (or viable since it would still carry a stun lock).


Edited, Feb 16th 2011 12:38pm by BartelX
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#100 Feb 16 2011 at 11:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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Anything of real difficulty should require a good proper point / gear / skill assignment otherwise you are just watering down the content to make it easier for lazy or hybrid builds. This choice they are then forced with either destroys the challenge or ruins the armory system. And they are mutually exclusive you can't have booth.

Why can't they just adjust your stats based on jobs & lvl automatically then balance the content afterwards to suit a player with proper gear. This is the heart of SE's fail in FFXIV, they try to make it good for everything, wear anything you want at any lvl with little penalty use any stat assignment on any job with little impact, use any skill on any job at any time to make every class able to solo. This all equaled a mother effin epic fail of a launch. I pray that Yoshi-P knows this and fixes the problems.

Content would be great and there is plenty of it in the works I'm sure but basic game mechanics needs to start rolling in fast. The party SP rate fix helped a lot now give me my job classes back.
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#101 Feb 16 2011 at 11:43 AM Rating: Good
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Just curious why someone feels the need to rate down all my posts? Am I being offensive or something? I actually thought we were having a relatively civil discussion here that didn't require rating people down over an opinion. I'm sorry you don't agree with me, that doesn't mean you need to karma camp my posts.
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