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changing jobs on the spot? big fat lie.Follow

#102 Feb 16 2011 at 11:46 AM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:
Just curious why someone feels the need to rate down all my posts? Am I being offensive or something? I actually thought we were having a relatively civil discussion here that didn't require rating people down over an opinion. I'm sorry you don't agree with me, that doesn't mean you need to karma camp my posts.


we are having a relatively good conversation/discussion right now, but personaly, i just ignore the karma system, who cares what people think

as far as me using your posts as quotes, its probly cuz your one of the few dicsussing the issue rather then doing a 1 post "i hate it or i think people need to shut up and live with it" type posts, those obviously add nothing to contribute

its easier to speak with someone who speaks back civily after all
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#103 Feb 16 2011 at 11:49 AM Rating: Default
Vedis wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Just curious why someone feels the need to rate down all my posts? Am I being offensive or something? I actually thought we were having a relatively civil discussion here that didn't require rating people down over an opinion. I'm sorry you don't agree with me, that doesn't mean you need to karma camp my posts.


we are having a relatively good conversation/discussion right now, but personaly, i just ignore the karma system, who cares what people think

as far as me using your posts as quotes, its probly cuz your one of the few dicsussing the issue rather then doing a 1 post "i hate it or i think people need to shut up and live with it" type posts, those obviously add nothing to contribute

its easier to speak with someone who speaks back civily after all


Yes, although there have been some epic one-liners. Unfortunately, few and far in-between.
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#104 Feb 16 2011 at 11:52 AM Rating: Good
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Vedis wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Just curious why someone feels the need to rate down all my posts? Am I being offensive or something? I actually thought we were having a relatively civil discussion here that didn't require rating people down over an opinion. I'm sorry you don't agree with me, that doesn't mean you need to karma camp my posts.


we are having a relatively good conversation/discussion right now, but personaly, i just ignore the karma system, who cares what people think

as far as me using your posts as quotes, its probly cuz your one of the few dicsussing the issue rather then doing a 1 post "i hate it or i think people need to shut up and live with it" type posts, those obviously add nothing to contribute

its easier to speak with someone who speaks back civily after all


Agreed, and tbh, I don't think our opinions are really ALL that much different. I completely agree it is nowhere CLOSE to the most important thing that needs to be fixed/added. I also understand that it DOES technically work as is and that it is more of an annoyance than a game-ending issue (like the lack of content). However, I do think it is something that they should improve. I definitely do not think it is perfectly fine as is, and cannot understand how anyone WOULD think that. The system isn't perfect, sorry. It needs a lot of work, much like everything else in this game. Defending it for not needing change is just being content w/ mediocrity or worse in my opinion.

Edit: As to the karma issue, the system for this site has always intrigued me. I honestly don't really care about my karma THAT much, or else I wouldn't be posting something that I KNOW someone will rate down. I'd just make my posts all fluff like a lot of people here and be basking in guru status. But when I feel I'm getting rated down for something that is an opinion and has no flaming, I'm always curious as to why. Rarely will someone actually to admit to it and explain why, but when they do it's quite nice so I can know what I say/do that offends people.

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 12:54pm by BartelX
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#105 Feb 16 2011 at 11:53 AM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:
Jefro420 wrote:
There is nothing to sink in, you guys are complaining about a few extra seconds changing classes, which is ridiculous.


Why is it ridiculous? Because you're content, everyone else should be? Sorry, that's not how the world works buddy.
It's ridiculous because it's a few seconds (OK maybe a minute) that you are complaining about. Tell me what you are going to accomplish in that minute that can't wait?

Personally, I don't think we should be able to swap gear mid-battle. So maybe that will help you to understand where I'm coming from.



Edited, Feb 16th 2011 12:55pm by Jefro420
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#106 Feb 16 2011 at 11:53 AM Rating: Decent
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LeilaniWildfire, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
So I have a dog that took a sh*t in the kitchen floor, then stepped on it and ran around the whole god **** house so there was sh*t everywhere. BUT before I started cleaning up the mess I started to fix my toaster because the bread I was toasting the morning came out a bit burned.

This is such a minor thing in the scale of stuff that needs to be fixed on FFXIV, why it is getting people so worked up on?
Yeah, ok we could cut down let's say a minute of your gear swapping but for Gods sake, don't you think this is a bit stupid?

BUT I WANT TO CHANGE RIGHT NOW, NOT 2 MINUTES LATER... NOOWWWW!!!! Smiley: lol


Did you really step in dog doody? Poopfoot? Gross!
#107 Feb 16 2011 at 11:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jefro420 wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Jefro420 wrote:
There is nothing to sink in, you guys are complaining about a few extra seconds changing classes, which is ridiculous.


Why is it ridiculous? Because you're content, everyone else should be? Sorry, that's not how the world works buddy.
It's ridiculous because it's a few seconds (OK maybe a minute) that you are complaining about. Tell me what you are going to accomplish in that minute that can't wait?

Personally, I don't think we should be able to swap gear mid-battle. So maybe that will help you to understand where I'm coming from.


Well, I could be running to a camp. I could be activating a leve. I could be joining a behest. I could be getting my leves from the leve-quest NM. A minute is still a minute. And when I might only have 30 mins to play, that minute is pretty significant. Of course, since I'm ACTUALLY talking about almost 5 minutes and NOT just a minute, perhaps you can see a bit more why I wouldn't mind it being changed?

I actually agree about no gear swaps in battle, and I don't think that would ever be an issue because of the stun lock that changing gear puts on you (which I do NOT think should be removed). In fact, as far as I'm concerned, they should make it so you CAN'T swap gear in battle. But outside of battle, I'd really like it instant.
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#108 Feb 16 2011 at 12:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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The rate downs appear to be coming from people who disagree, which is an unfortunate side effect of the karma system.

Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Hugus wrote:
If you are serious in wanting to make a relevant topic about something that should or needs to be change I'll tell you what I always say:

Take it to the Feedback forum, thats where it should be.


This.

If you post things in the main forum you are looking for attention, not change.


Smiley: inlove
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#109 Feb 16 2011 at 12:02 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
The rate downs appear to be coming from people who disagree, which is an unfortunate side effect of the karma system.


Honestly, I don't mind being rated down if someone will at least tell me why. Even if it's simply "I rated you down because I don't like the tone of your posts", at least then I know why. Sometimes I feel like people just rate without even READING the post though, and that's what I don't like.
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#110 Feb 16 2011 at 12:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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BartelX wrote:
Wint wrote:
The rate downs appear to be coming from people who disagree, which is an unfortunate side effect of the karma system.


Honestly, I don't mind being rated down if someone will at least tell me why. Even if it's simply "I rated you down because I don't like the tone of your posts", at least then I know why. Sometimes I feel like people just rate without even READING the post though, and that's what I don't like.


I think the anonymity brings out the worst in people. I would love to see what would happen if you guys could see what I see, namely the names of people who have rated each post and whether it was up or down. Would be interesting to see if rating would be so prevalent.
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#111 Feb 16 2011 at 12:08 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Wint wrote:
The rate downs appear to be coming from people who disagree, which is an unfortunate side effect of the karma system.


Honestly, I don't mind being rated down if someone will at least tell me why. Even if it's simply "I rated you down because I don't like the tone of your posts", at least then I know why. Sometimes I feel like people just rate without even READING the post though, and that's what I don't like.


I think the anonymity brings out the worst in people. I would love to see what would happen if you guys could see what I see, namely the names of people who have rated each post and whether it was up or down. Would be interesting to see if rating would be so prevalent.


How do you rate down so I can rate down the post above me?
#112 Feb 16 2011 at 12:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Seikninkuru wrote:
Wint wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Wint wrote:
The rate downs appear to be coming from people who disagree, which is an unfortunate side effect of the karma system.


Honestly, I don't mind being rated down if someone will at least tell me why. Even if it's simply "I rated you down because I don't like the tone of your posts", at least then I know why. Sometimes I feel like people just rate without even READING the post though, and that's what I don't like.


I think the anonymity brings out the worst in people. I would love to see what would happen if you guys could see what I see, namely the names of people who have rated each post and whether it was up or down. Would be interesting to see if rating would be so prevalent.


How do you rate down so I can rate down the post above me?


You need at least 15 (possibly 30) posts, and a karma score over a certain number (that I can see and you can't). And the post can't be from an admin.

If you are just razzing me, then Smiley: tongue
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#113 Feb 16 2011 at 12:17 PM Rating: Good
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I DO NOT WANT instant blink changing gear. Then you will be expected to have a peices of gear to optimize every single skill and you will have a party of blinking characters for every event. Holding onto 60 peices of gear to equip ONE class would not be any improvement.

Because of this, I like the fact the you have to be in passive mode to change equip.

Speeding up the speed it takes to cycle through 10 slots of /equip lines seems to be a reasonable request. You cannot deny that 1 minute 30 seconds is a huge improvement over FFXI job change times.

The part where the macros miss equip at times is not acceptable.

The part where Gaurd and Refill fall on the first empty spot is a pain. If you want it to land in the second spot just start off every macro with /eaction 2.

Example:

/eaction 2
/equip main "Iron Short Sword"
/equip sub "Iron Scutum"

Then Gaurd will always land in the second spot. Requesting the Gaurd and Refill become movable is fine by me.

Finally, if they do make it so skills are remembered by class that would be great.

Saying that changing jobs on the spot it is a big fat lie is a bit strong. The innovation of the Armoury system cannot be so easily dismissed. To say that no improvements could be made is not entirely correct. As always, specific example of what you want to be improved sent directly to SE would be your best bet.

Would you rather they tweak this system or work on more content?
Content!:17 (85.0%)
I need to change jobs faster now. Make skills remembered by class.:3 (15.0%)
I need to change jobs faster now. Make the cycle time of macros faster.:0 (%)
Total:20

#114 Feb 16 2011 at 12:22 PM Rating: Decent
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MensoMicona wrote:
Hugus wrote:
MensoMicona wrote:
Hugus wrote:
MensoMicona wrote:
Hugus wrote:


Hugus wrote:
In regards to your comparison, if you don't want to take 1 and a half minutes unrapping a candy bar then just don't buy it. Buying it and then complaining about it just seems childlike.


As you can see, my coment about being childlike was in regards to a specific comparison and not to the game itself.


the point of which, by the way, you completely missed.



I would actually appreciate if you can clearly make your point.


Dont really see the use of it because u already proven that ur not open to complaining but anyway; people should not be frowned upon if they are complaining about something that could be much better with marginal effort.

And about the 1 minute 30 thing; its not about the ******* length its just the fact that takes long because its a system that is flawed and could use some work.


LOL

So first I missed your point and now that I asked you to make it clear so I can understand it you wont because I'm the one who is not open to other's points of view???????

At least I'm actually interested in understanding other's points of view even if I don't agree with them.

You apparently, just wanna keep hitting your head on the wall and scream I want I want I want.


"people should not be frowned upon if they are complaining about something that could be much better with marginal effort."

is what i meant with the comparison you mongrel.


I never said that this isn't somehting the shouldnt be looked into.

I made 2 initial points which were that first there are other things which are much more important and in need to be fixed months ahead od this system, (as it it this is an extra which other games don't even have), lets actually look into important things that need to be fixed.

Secondly my point was that the more game producers bent to the will of gamers and change the most important things, whether they need changes or not, the more inconsequental things will be brought up by the gaming comunity to a point that we might as well all play the same game.

To be honest this thread has stopped being an adult, constructive discution a good few posts so I'm gonna just go ahead and leave, enjoy.
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#115 Feb 16 2011 at 12:31 PM Rating: Default
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Wint wrote:
Seikninkuru wrote:
Wint wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Wint wrote:
The rate downs appear to be coming from people who disagree, which is an unfortunate side effect of the karma system.


Honestly, I don't mind being rated down if someone will at least tell me why. Even if it's simply "I rated you down because I don't like the tone of your posts", at least then I know why. Sometimes I feel like people just rate without even READING the post though, and that's what I don't like.


I think the anonymity brings out the worst in people. I would love to see what would happen if you guys could see what I see, namely the names of people who have rated each post and whether it was up or down. Would be interesting to see if rating would be so prevalent.


How do you rate down so I can rate down the post above me?


You need at least 15 (possibly 30) posts, and a karma score over a certain number (that I can see and you can't). And the post can't be from an admin.

If you are just razzing me, then Smiley: tongue


Wint!! Why can't I rate people yet?!
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#116 Feb 16 2011 at 12:36 PM Rating: Good
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Hugus wrote:
Secondly my point was that the more game producers bent to the will of gamers and change the most important things, whether they need changes or not, the more inconsequental things will be brought up by the gaming comunity to a point that we might as well all play the same game.

To be honest this thread has stopped being an adult, constructive discution a good few posts so I'm gonna just go ahead and leave, enjoy.


And the less that game producers change, the faster this game will hemorrhage players. If you haven't noticed, this game ain't doing all that great. Sure the SP changes helped, but every person I know who came back because of that has left again because of STILL no content, most of whom will probably not give the game another shot.

For like the third time now, I'm not asking that they do anything that would change the core mechanics of gameplay. I'm asking them to remove all the delays and worthless time sink when swapping equip/actions outside of battle. And maybe have set builds for reallocation so that I don't have to keep swapping points every time and wasting another 3 mins.

But, since this thread isn't adult enough for ya, I'm sure you're not even reading this (yeah... sure). Not sure how people debating different sides of an argument logically and rationally isn't adult, but hey, whatever.

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 1:37pm by BartelX
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#117 Feb 16 2011 at 12:37 PM Rating: Decent
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RufuSwho wrote:
I DO NOT WANT instant blink changing gear. Then you will be expected to have a peices of gear to optimize every single skill and you will have a party of blinking characters for every event. Holding onto 60 peices of gear to equip ONE class would not be any improvement.

Because of this, I like the fact the you have to be in passive mode to change equip.

Speeding up the speed it takes to cycle through 10 slots of /equip lines seems to be a reasonable request. You cannot deny that 1 minute 30 seconds is a huge improvement over FFXI job change times.

The part where the macros miss equip at times is not acceptable.

The part where Gaurd and Refill fall on the first empty spot is a pain. If you want it to land in the second spot just start off every macro with /eaction 2.

Example:

/eaction 2
/equip main "Iron Short Sword"
/equip sub "Iron Scutum"

Then Gaurd will always land in the second spot. Requesting the Gaurd and Refill become movable is fine by me.

Finally, if they do make it so skills are remembered by class that would be great.

Saying that changing jobs on the spot it is a big fat lie is a bit strong. The innovation of the Armoury system cannot be so easily dismissed. To say that no improvements could be made is not entirely correct. As always, specific example of what you want to be improved sent directly to SE would be your best bet.

Poll Removed: No more than one per thread, please!


This is silly. Fixing the skills/equipment isn't going to take the whole development team. Its a quick fix at most.
The options in this poll are basically "what would you rather have, to have your molar fixed or an AIRPLANE!?"

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 1:38pm by MajidahSihaam

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 1:38pm by MajidahSihaam
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#118 Feb 16 2011 at 12:42 PM Rating: Good
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MajidahSihaam wrote:
RufuSwho wrote:
I DO NOT WANT instant blink changing gear. Then you will be expected to have a peices of gear to optimize every single skill and you will have a party of blinking characters for every event. Holding onto 60 peices of gear to equip ONE class would not be any improvement.

Because of this, I like the fact the you have to be in passive mode to change equip.

Speeding up the speed it takes to cycle through 10 slots of /equip lines seems to be a reasonable request. You cannot deny that 1 minute 30 seconds is a huge improvement over FFXI job change times.

The part where the macros miss equip at times is not acceptable.

The part where Gaurd and Refill fall on the first empty spot is a pain. If you want it to land in the second spot just start off every macro with /eaction 2.

Example:

/eaction 2
/equip main "Iron Short Sword"
/equip sub "Iron Scutum"

Then Gaurd will always land in the second spot. Requesting the Gaurd and Refill become movable is fine by me.

Finally, if they do make it so skills are remembered by class that would be great.

Saying that changing jobs on the spot it is a big fat lie is a bit strong. The innovation of the Armoury system cannot be so easily dismissed. To say that no improvements could be made is not entirely correct. As always, specific example of what you want to be improved sent directly to SE would be your best bet.

Poll Removed: No more than one per thread, please!


This is silly. Fixing the skills/equipment isn't going to take the whole development team. Its a quick fix at most.
The options in this poll are basically "what would you rather have, to have your molar fixed or an AIRPLANE!?"

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 1:38pm by MajidahSihaam

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 1:38pm by MajidahSihaam


The answer is obvious. My molar fixed as I don't know how to fly an airplane.
#119 Feb 16 2011 at 12:42 PM Rating: Good
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Also Rufus, that poll is INSANELY misleading. Obviously most people wants content first. No one is even debating that here. But your other options are trying to pit it AGAINST the job change. Realistically, there should be an option for "I want content changes but do NOT want changes to equip/action time", "I want both content AND equip/action time changes", and "I want equip/action changes first! Then worry about content".

Had you made it more like this, the poll would be a lot more balanced. As is, it's pretty pointless to see that almost EVERYONE is going to pick content first, which was never the issue.

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 1:44pm by BartelX
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#120 Feb 16 2011 at 1:44 PM Rating: Good
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I tried to cover each one of legitimate concerns stated within this thread about the class changing process. I agree with many of the ideas stated by the OP.

(Edited for brevity.)

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 3:39pm by RufuSwho
#121 Feb 16 2011 at 1:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Why the spatial term "on the spot" related to time is beyond reason.


Time and space are essentially two expressions of the same concept, so I wouldn't call it beyond reason. How do we rate speed? Feet/meters per second, miles/kilometers per hour, etc.

When someone asks you "How far is it to the restaurant?" You usually say something like "It's about twenty minutes away if you take the interstate." Rarely do people say "about 25 miles" or the like. It's because instinctively we relate distance with the speed at which we cross it, and velocity encompasses both direction and time.

Quote:
I would much rather have access to all my class abilities, and no one elses, save maybe 1 "sub" or perhaps have a completely seperate point system for adding other class abilities. (idk.) i hate having to choose, between 1 million abilities and knowing i cant even have all of my OWN classes abilities at once. Seems a bit unfair.


I say this all the time on these forums, but I can never understand this mode of thinking. How can more options be a bad thing? How can being able to custom fit your class to your play style be a downside to the game? I like the fact, personally, that you can't access all of your abilities, because it means you have to put some thought into how you construct your build rather than simply what subjob gives you the most useful abilities. I also like being able to set almost any of the abilities I've learned, rather than being locked into a single subjob where half the abilities are utterly useless because they get capped out at half-level effectiveness (and the other half are more effective for a different job using that job as a sub, because they aren't half-level effectiveness).
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#122 Feb 16 2011 at 2:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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MaverickBG wrote:
Wint!! Why can't I rate people yet?!


Let's just say your average karma...needs some work Smiley: smile
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#123 Feb 16 2011 at 2:01 PM Rating: Good
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GailC wrote:

I say this all the time on these forums, but I can never understand this mode of thinking. How can more options be a bad thing? How can being able to custom fit your class to your play style be a downside to the game? I like the fact, personally, that you can't access all of your abilities, because it means you have to put some thought into how you construct your build rather than simply what subjob gives you the most useful abilities. I also like being able to set almost any of the abilities I've learned, rather than being locked into a single subjob where half the abilities are utterly useless because they get capped out at half-level effectiveness (and the other half are more effective for a different job using that job as a sub, because they aren't half-level effectiveness).


I agree so hard with you here. I love the customization. I mean seriously, EVERY OTHER game on the market (that I've heard of anyway) forces you to choose out of a few pre-determined paths/specs. It is refreshing to have this level of customization available, and honestly, if SE does away with it, I will probably give up on the game.
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#124 Feb 16 2011 at 2:20 PM Rating: Decent
Sorry, it is just my "I didn't think FFXIV would be so drastically different from FFXI" feelings creeping up again.
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#125 Feb 16 2011 at 3:08 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
Seikninkuru wrote:
Wint wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Wint wrote:
The rate downs appear to be coming from people who disagree, which is an unfortunate side effect of the karma system.


Honestly, I don't mind being rated down if someone will at least tell me why. Even if it's simply "I rated you down because I don't like the tone of your posts", at least then I know why. Sometimes I feel like people just rate without even READING the post though, and that's what I don't like.


I think the anonymity brings out the worst in people. I would love to see what would happen if you guys could see what I see, namely the names of people who have rated each post and whether it was up or down. Would be interesting to see if rating would be so prevalent.


How do you rate down so I can rate down the post above me?


You need at least 15 (possibly 30) posts, and a karma score over a certain number (that I can see and you can't). And the post can't be from an admin.

If you are just razzing me, then Smiley: tongue



Of course I was kidding, there is too much serious on this forum. Apparently someone rated me down for it though. :<
#126 Feb 16 2011 at 3:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
MaverickBG wrote:
Wint!! Why can't I rate people yet?!


Let's just say your average karma...needs some work Smiley: smile


Wint, is it the same *BEEP* who is downrating every single *BEEP* post I *BEEP* make? Because I don't mind people rating down based on that they disagree (even though its total BS), but posts in this thread like my last one are being rated down even though the people replying agree with them.

edit: case in point, someone just downrated this very same post.

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 4:19pm by MajidahSihaam
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#127 Feb 16 2011 at 3:18 PM Rating: Good
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MajidahSihaam wrote:

Wint, is the same *BEEP* who is downrating every single *BEEP* post I *BEEP* make? Because I don't mind people rating down based on that they disagree (even though its total BS), but posts in this thread like my last one are being rated down even though the people replying agree with them.

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 4:10pm by MajidahSihaam


All your threads make simple issues out to be a huge calamity.

We all know there are issues with the game.
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#128 Feb 16 2011 at 3:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Tankue wrote:
MajidahSihaam wrote:

Wint, is the same *BEEP* who is downrating every single *BEEP* post I *BEEP* make? Because I don't mind people rating down based on that they disagree (even though its total BS), but posts in this thread like my last one are being rated down even though the people replying agree with them.

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 4:10pm by MajidahSihaam


All your threads make simple issues out to be a huge calamity.

We all know there are issues with the game.


First of all, my threads don't make simple issues to be huge calamities. They point out the issues and open discussion on how to solve them and whether it also bothers other people (and guess what, it does). If you're a white knight who can't take constructive criticism that's not my problem.
Second, I am not talking about the threads themselves (two of my last three threads had "excellent" rating until a few days ago and hot thread status AND are still active thank you) but about every simple post I make replying to other people.


Edited, Feb 16th 2011 4:24pm by MajidahSihaam
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#129 Feb 16 2011 at 3:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Replying in a condescending manner, such as this:
MajidahSihaam wrote:
If you're a white knight who can't take constructive criticism that's not my problem.
might be one reason why you get rate downs. The good old grade-school saying of "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" goes a long ways with the karma system. I notice that snarky posts tend to get rated down while polite posts are rated up.

I realize you'll probably think we have a thin skin or take things too personally, but that's not it at all. It's really just a matter of respect.
#130 Feb 16 2011 at 3:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Hydragyrum wrote:
Replying in a condescending manner, such as this:
MajidahSihaam wrote:
If you're a white knight who can't take constructive criticism that's not my problem.
might be one reason why you get rate downs. The good old grade-school saying of "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" goes a long ways with the karma system. I notice that snarky posts tend to get rated down while polite posts are rated up.

I realize you'll probably think we have a thin skin or take things too personally, but that's not it at all. It's really just a matter of respect.


Again. How is it wrong to place the question whether or not he is a white knight regarding XIV when he obviously has an issue with threads that open up for discussion some of the game's issues and offer possible solutions?
Most my threads are even divided with sub titles "problem", "issue", "proposed solution". It does not get any more neutral and constructive than that regarding criticism.

Asking for me to be "less snarky" when at least five of my last ten post have -in some moment- hit default status (a lot of them were voted up afterwards) when this person is actually trying to justify this kind of behaviour seems pretty unreasonable.

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 4:46pm by MajidahSihaam
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#131 Feb 16 2011 at 3:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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MajidahSihaam wrote:
Hydragyrum wrote:
Replying in a condescending manner, such as this:
MajidahSihaam wrote:
If you're a white knight who can't take constructive criticism that's not my problem.
might be one reason why you get rate downs. The good old grade-school saying of "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" goes a long ways with the karma system. I notice that snarky posts tend to get rated down while polite posts are rated up.

I realize you'll probably think we have a thin skin or take things too personally, but that's not it at all. It's really just a matter of respect.


Again. How is it wrong to place the question whether or not he is a white knight regarding XIV when he obviously has an issue with threads that open up for discussion some of the game's issues and offer possible solutions?
Most my threads are even divided with sub titles "problem", "issue", "proposed solution". It does not get any more neutral and constructive than that regarding criticism.

Asking for me to be "less snarky" when at least five of my last ten post have -in some moment- hit default status (a lot of them were voted up afterwards) when this person is actually trying to justify this kind of behaviour seems pretty unreasonable.

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 4:46pm by MajidahSihaam


The problem is calling people white knights is a condescending and rude term to use. Its an insult and its some peoples ways of trying to tell others that their opinion doesnt matter.
Do not use that term, do not look down on others opinions, and youll find it much easier to not get karma camped.

Is that easy to understand?
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#132 Feb 16 2011 at 4:25 PM Rating: Good
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Hydragyrum wrote:
It's really just a matter of respect.


Yes.

In some cases, residual emnity from previous posts and arguments can have long term effects. There are posters who do not post at all, but simply form an opinion of other posters and then rate them up/down - sometimes regardless of the content of their posts. This can easily be confused with the latest poster having rated you down, even if they simply stated a casual disagreement.

It's a fascinating system to me. It's like a little slice of accountability in an otherwise anonomous world.

How many threads have devolved into a debate about the karma system usage?
#133 Feb 16 2011 at 4:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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RufuSwho wrote:
Hydragyrum wrote:
It's really just a matter of respect.


Yes.

In some cases, residual emnity from previous posts and arguments can have long term effects. There are posters who do not post at all, but simply form an opinion of other posters and then rate them up/down - sometimes regardless of the content of their posts. This can easily be confused with the latest poster having rated you down, even if they simply stated a casual disagreement.

It's a fascinating system to me. It's like a little slice of accountability in an otherwise anonomous world.

How many threads have devolved into a debate about the karma system usage?


I'm half tempted to start a thread about karma and see if someone will derail it to be about FFXIV.
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#134 Feb 16 2011 at 5:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:

I'm half tempted to start a thread about karma and see if someone will derail it to be about FFXIV.


Do it.
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#135 Feb 16 2011 at 5:12 PM Rating: Good
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Seconded! (Don't forget the obligatory poll.)
#136 Feb 16 2011 at 5:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Saying that the inability to quickly change classes on the fly is a non-issue is an incredibly short-sighted statement.

The armory system is pretty much the single most appealing thing this game has to offer from a gameplay perspective. When something that important suffers from a lack of polish, it leaves a bad taste in your mouth and sets up the expectation that plenty of other things will suffer from a similar lack of polish. And you know what? You won't be wrong.

People need to look at this from the perspective of new and returning players. How many of them will know how to setup macros?

Answer: None of them. That one minute of dealing with slow macro execution will turn to five. They will be setting abilities manually one by one. They will be allocating their stat points one by one while not knowing how these stats affect their characters. They will find out that attempting to reassign those stat points has some random restriction that prevents them from doing it again from scratch.

I'm sure that almost everyone here had a negative reaction when they encountered these problems. Even if most of us have learned to deal with it, it is still a very frequent annoyance. I will usually change classes a couple times in a 30-min timespan. 2-3 of those 30 min are lost on setting abilities and changing gear. So 5-10% of my playtime is spent struggling against the UI.

It's been said countless times before, but why does SE always take a step back whenever they take one step forward?

The armory system overall is more convenient than job changing in ffxi. This is due to the fact that travel time is not required and inventory restrictions are not as harsh. In return though, we have to deal with ~1 second wait time between every macro line and the need to customize from scratch every single time.

The ability to equip multiple linkshells is great. In return, we lost the ability to see where linkshell members are or kick them.

We gained the ability to invite a player from anywhere in the world, but we lost an individual player search function.

Everyone can teleport to any camp using anima, but we lost the chocobos and airships.

SE doesn't need people defending the good things they have done thus far and they don't need to be reminded of the major issues like the incredibly vague and elusive "content". They do however need to be alerted or reminded of specific issues that cause players frustration - especially new players. The typical player of a new game is fickle. If he encounters poor design and becomes inconvenienced very early on into the game, he is very unlikely to stick around for much longer.

So to summarize: Quit being a bunch of white-knighting smurfs and maybe SE can actually get some feedback and fix this game.

Watch the language. - Fleven

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 4:15pm by Fleven
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#137 Feb 16 2011 at 6:07 PM Rating: Good
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Honestly I don't think job changing takes that long. Gee. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.
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#138 Feb 16 2011 at 6:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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kronohofsylph wrote:
So to summarize: Quit being a bunch of white-knighting smurfs and maybe SE can actually get some feedback and fix this game.


You lost all credibility with what would have otherwise been a very well thought out and aptly put post with this one line. Not only did you use a relatively harmless (but still demeaning) label that isolated to FFXIV, you had to go and use a derogatory term twice which is far more insulting. Grow up.

Edit: Edited out the quoted language to match Fleven's edit.



Edited, Feb 16th 2011 6:17pm by Hydragyrum
#139 Feb 16 2011 at 6:56 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Honestly I don't think job changing takes that long. Gee. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.


I'm glad that you and some others feel that way. A lot of others don't. Doesn't mean 1 side is right or wrong, just means we see it from different perspectives. Just as you think it's "making a mountain out of a molehill", I think a lot of you are being too forgiving of a system that's "not that bad" when it could so much more. That said, I absolutely hate the term white-knight. It is misused so often to generalize a group of people, and it's just unnecessary.
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#140 Feb 16 2011 at 7:21 PM Rating: Default
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kronohofsylph wrote:
Saying that the inability to quickly change classes on the fly is a non-issue is an incredibly short-sighted statement.

The armory system is pretty much the single most appealing thing this game has to offer from a gameplay perspective. When something that important suffers from a lack of polish, it leaves a bad taste in your mouth and sets up the expectation that plenty of other things will suffer from a similar lack of polish. And you know what? You won't be wrong.

People need to look at this from the perspective of new and returning players. How many of them will know how to setup macros?

Answer: None of them. That one minute of dealing with slow macro execution will turn to five. They will be setting abilities manually one by one. They will be allocating their stat points one by one while not knowing how these stats affect their characters. They will find out that attempting to reassign those stat points has some random restriction that prevents them from doing it again from scratch.

I'm sure that almost everyone here had a negative reaction when they encountered these problems. Even if most of us have learned to deal with it, it is still a very frequent annoyance. I will usually change classes a couple times in a 30-min timespan. 2-3 of those 30 min are lost on setting abilities and changing gear. So 5-10% of my playtime is spent struggling against the UI.

It's been said countless times before, but why does SE always take a step back whenever they take one step forward?

The armory system overall is more convenient than job changing in ffxi. This is due to the fact that travel time is not required and inventory restrictions are not as harsh. In return though, we have to deal with ~1 second wait time between every macro line and the need to customize from scratch every single time.

The ability to equip multiple linkshells is great. In return, we lost the ability to see where linkshell members are or kick them.

We gained the ability to invite a player from anywhere in the world, but we lost an individual player search function.

Everyone can teleport to any camp using anima, but we lost the chocobos and airships.

SE doesn't need people defending the good things they have done thus far and they don't need to be reminded of the major issues like the incredibly vague and elusive "content". They do however need to be alerted or reminded of specific issues that cause players frustration - especially new players. The typical player of a new game is fickle. If he encounters poor design and becomes inconvenienced very early on into the game, he is very unlikely to stick around for much longer.

So to summarize: Quit being a bunch of white-knighting smurfs and maybe SE can actually get some feedback and fix this game.

Watch the language. - Fleven

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 4:15pm by Fleven


Its pretty funny the one on-topic responce gets voted down to default while all the off-topic ones get pushed up to good or excellent. (yes I'm aware that I too become derailed for a bit)

Anyway, I agree with this guy and pretty much sums up what I think about new and returning players.
I'm pretty much against any system that requires for someone to learn commands such as "/eaction" and so. I think FF XII and XIII were a pretty good examples of how a good UI can make setting macros into an easy thing without requiring for the player to learn the game's coding language.
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#141 Feb 16 2011 at 8:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Seikninkuru wrote:
Wint wrote:
Seikninkuru wrote:
Wint wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Wint wrote:
The rate downs appear to be coming from people who disagree, which is an unfortunate side effect of the karma system.


Honestly, I don't mind being rated down if someone will at least tell me why. Even if it's simply "I rated you down because I don't like the tone of your posts", at least then I know why. Sometimes I feel like people just rate without even READING the post though, and that's what I don't like.


I think the anonymity brings out the worst in people. I would love to see what would happen if you guys could see what I see, namely the names of people who have rated each post and whether it was up or down. Would be interesting to see if rating would be so prevalent.


How do you rate down so I can rate down the post above me?


You need at least 15 (possibly 30) posts, and a karma score over a certain number (that I can see and you can't). And the post can't be from an admin.

If you are just razzing me, then Smiley: tongue



Of course I was kidding, there is too much serious on this forum. Apparently someone rated me down for it though. :<


That particular post only has rate ups.

MajidahSihaam, I think you'll find that in general, talking about karma either good or bad, is a natural magnet for rating, and usually ends up in the negative category. Not saying that's fair, but is just what seems to happen.
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#142 Feb 16 2011 at 8:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Found the last thread on this topic.

http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=152&mid=1292096819305498549

And here is the bold argument against action bar memory:

Some jackwagon--in retrospect Expletive Deleted-- wrote:
Classes are able to perform more than 1 'function.' For example, if your pugilist is in a group with several tanks, you will simply be expected to be DD. However, there will be times when you will need to tank yourself. You will then need max abilities set in your ******* for defense, evasion, and overall survival. Having the game 'remember' your last set of actions will not work and would be a nuisance.

You will NEED to sometimes set different actions, depending on what your role is at the time. If a GLA was not expected to tank, they could set a LOT of different actions than they normally would to give them a higher DPS.

But yeah, we need like 30 line macros... I already have to use 3 macros for my GLA...

To which I responded:
I wrote:
I cannot think of a single instance in which remembering my last known ability set would be less convenient than the current wipe-it-all-from-slot-30-backwards-until-you-hit-current-AP-maximum system.

Your skill set is much more likely to need a small adjustment than a complete overhaul--for example, going from solo to PT on a PGL, you might want to add Taunt. That's it.

Remembering equipment between classes would be nice, too (FFXI did it).

Perhaps FFXIV is so wonderfully diverse and complex, and I am too stupid to see it.

Admin Note - Unless it's in the Asylum, don't use that word again. It's derogatory and offensive and has no place on these forums.

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 9:49pm by Vlorsutes
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#143 Feb 16 2011 at 8:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalexia wrote:


Some jackwagon--in retrospect, not a ****** at all--


Could you watch your language? That's just not cool at all man.
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#144 Feb 17 2011 at 12:20 AM Rating: Good
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The whole remembering settings on a job basis is a fairly obvious progression in the game design. It will come. I don't think anyone thinks it's the most important issue ever, just one that can be annoying. Especially if you like to play a variety of classes.

There is always this feeling that if someone isn't complaining about an issue it might get swept under the rug, and no one wants that. I don't think many people would consider this a bad idea. Those who somehow feel offended because it's not as important as other things, relax.
#145 Feb 17 2011 at 2:26 PM Rating: Good
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Vapes wrote:
The whole remembering settings on a job basis is a fairly obvious progression in the game design. It will come. I don't think anyone thinks it's the most important issue ever, just one that can be annoying. Especially if you like to play a variety of classes.

There is always this feeling that if someone isn't complaining about an issue it might get swept under the rug, and no one wants that. I don't think many people would consider this a bad idea. Those who somehow feel offended because it's not as important as other things, relax.


Yes. Yes. And yes.

I was thinking myself that this is a fairly obvious improvement, just not the highest priority at the moment.
#146 Feb 17 2011 at 3:00 PM Rating: Decent
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The ability to save two attribute point setups with a 36hour cooldown would go a long way in making the switch between classes more seamless. Savings abilities per class is also something that shouldn't be to hard to implement but the auto gear swap would be to difficult to manage but at least making macro length long enough to account for every equitable slot would fix that.
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