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Reduction Full PT , 15 to 8 Follow

#1 Feb 17 2011 at 4:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Pro: Possible future NM and quest will be release upon ideal 8 members / 4 members.

Con: No more massive leve link grind. Optimal up to 8 members, right?




Edited, Feb 17th 2011 5:50pm by austergogo
#2 Feb 17 2011 at 4:44 PM Rating: Good
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From the sound of it, they don't want players SPing in groups larger than 8. Also the 8 and 4 member groups seemed like they were for instances and such. I don't think they said anywhere than 15 people could not join the same party.
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#3 Feb 17 2011 at 4:45 PM Rating: Decent
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It was just for exp gain, you can still go for 15 just fine...

Regardless of getting less exp is made of fail, you're making it sound worse than it is.
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#4 Feb 17 2011 at 4:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Either they simply optimize exp for 8-man groups or we can form alliances. Either way it's an improvement for sure.
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#5 Feb 17 2011 at 4:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Adjustment has been made to the amount of party bonuses on skill and experience points for a party with 8 or more members.
Amount of party bonuses awarded per player will now be capped once the number of party members reaches 8 and will decrease by having more members.


This is from the update notes. It won't be limited to 8 man, just ideal for SP parties.
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#6 Feb 17 2011 at 4:48 PM Rating: Decent
Alkerr wrote:
This is from the update notes. It won't be limited to 8 man, just ideal for SP parties.


Exaclty, 8 for optimal SP 8+ for "farming"
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#7 Feb 17 2011 at 4:53 PM Rating: Good
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Parties weren't reduced in size, skill points from party members after the 8th give no bonus and actually reduce the SP gains. This creates the incentive for people to stick to parties of less than 8 but leaves the option open for more. Unless I completely misunderstood the patch notes.

In all honesty, this seemed to happen anyway. I found that previously 6 - 8 was already the optimal party size. This change just sets that in stone.

Edited, Feb 17th 2011 5:55pm by Jefro420
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#8 Feb 17 2011 at 5:30 PM Rating: Good
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imo they should just force it on the players tbh, there is absolutely no coordination between party members right now except fro NM fights, they need smaller SP parties in order to have some structure to party play.
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#9 Feb 17 2011 at 6:07 PM Rating: Good
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I did a 4 person party this week and it was the best fun I've had partying... so yeah, I don't mind them giving incentives for smaller parties
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#10 Feb 17 2011 at 6:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
I did a 4 person party this week and it was the best fun I've had partying... so yeah, I don't mind them giving incentives for smaller parties



I too enjoy the smaller groups, maybe 3-6. I don't mind the change, but I think it would be really neat to see some multi-party/raid style NM fights/content.
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#11 Feb 17 2011 at 6:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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15 man parties are impersonal and require as much strategy as determining when's a good time to auto-follow and cook dinner. I believe 4 and 8 man parties were focused around maximum leve link (4 combined leves) so the number is appropriate. Still, here's hoping he scales the difficulty up and installs SP chains so we can get a challenge at least on the level of FFXI.
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#12 Feb 17 2011 at 8:22 PM Rating: Good
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Hopefully this will push parties to other camps.
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#13 Feb 17 2011 at 8:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
From the sound of it, they don't want players SPing in groups larger than 8. Also the 8 and 4 member groups seemed like they were for instances and such. I don't think they said anywhere than 15 people could not join the same party.


From the new Producer Letter.
Quote:
Of course, we're still on the fence a bit about balancing the degree of difficulty for fifteen-member parties, but I personally am of the opinion that everyone playing together is what makes the game fun. And so that is the direction in which I would like to take the game, and take it as quickly as possible. It was for that reason that I opted to balance the skill and experience points rewards first, with the intention of later tackling the difficulty level, rather than vice versa. Further balancing adjustments are ongoing, and are being based on the new designs in place for a maximum party size of eight members, as well as the smaller four-member party, both of which I've added to our list of intended changes.


The change hasn't happened yet, but its happening soon. The SP change was to make the eventual change less jarring by making people more comfortable with a 4-8 setup.
#14 Feb 17 2011 at 9:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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So in summary

Current:
Max Party = 15
Optimal Party = 8

I don't see this as a huge obstacle at this point in time as currently in my LS our leve grinding parties or leveling parties are rarely more than 8 anyway. The onyl time we have more would be when we are doing NMs and you killt hem for drops, not SP.

It makes me wonder if in behests, people will split up into 2 parties - one party of 8 and one of 7 to maximise SP. I can only imagine the confusion and fights that would ensue as each group would be competing with the other

Future?:
Quote:
Further balancing adjustments are ongoing, and are being based on the new designs in place for a maximum party size of eight members, as well as the smaller four-member party, both of which I've added to our list of intended changes.

Change in design to make make 8 max party number
Change in design to create bonus for even smaller partys of max 4

Quote:
Not surprisingly, the maximum number of members and levels of difficulty for behests were less than ideal.
-NEW- Adjustments to degrees of difficulty and bonuses for behests for full parties (8 members)

Change in max number of participants in behest
Addition of level restrictions to behests

Quote:
-NEW– Adjustments to period of time between behest resets

Increase in number of behest per hour to compensate for lower participants.
Perhaps multiple behests run at the same time?
#15 Feb 17 2011 at 9:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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after doing behest a few times, its not really a big deal. the SP was a little lower with more people but not enough to really make a big difference.
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#16 Feb 18 2011 at 12:46 AM Rating: Decent
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I did a behest with 7 people and a full 15 (after nerf). The 15 had almost 1/2 the SP gain (6k compared to 11k).
#17 Feb 18 2011 at 2:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm afraid people will start saying "Oh, we're at 8. I won't invite anyone else."

then the remaining 7 will create a new party, and then mobs will be cut in half, ruining it for everyone.

they should have just put a limit on behest.
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#18 Feb 18 2011 at 3:38 AM Rating: Decent
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levelxplane wrote:
I'm afraid people will start saying "Oh, we're at 8. I won't invite anyone else."

then the remaining 7 will create a new party, and then mobs will be cut in half, ruining it for everyone.

they should have just put a limit on behest.



I can see this happening :/
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#19 Feb 18 2011 at 7:16 AM Rating: Good
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They need to balance leve difficulty now or people won't bother doing anything harder than 3* stars (time invested to kill mobs versus reward/sp).
They also have to limit behests to 8 people. They did mention, if I'm right, that they're going to adjust behest reset times but unless they actually limit behest groups to 8, all I can see is that it's going to cause inevitable frustrations :/
On the other hand, people might opt for some other behest spots of the same rank range now, which I think is good as so many camps are empty all the time.
#20 Feb 18 2011 at 10:43 AM Rating: Decent
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I hate this nerf and yes it is a nerf.

Like going with less people and have difficult fights? What was stopping you before? Go with less up the stars.

Like going with a large group from your linkshell? TO BAD. I missed out on the LS SP party last night because it got filled up too fast.

Going with 8 people doesn't make the leve's any more challenging than 15 don't kid yourself.

There's no content to get any decent SP without being in a full leve party with links.
Less people means less links which also means less SP.

We bring 15 man parties to the crystal with multiple runs with max links and everyone wins.
Now you've got only 1 run maybe two of dunesfolk/Revaries without max links, and your now doing the crap leve's with less links making those leves even more unbearable.

Tuesdays reset I as averaging 100k per leve grind session. 3ish hrs. Last night I made around HALF that.
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#21 Feb 18 2011 at 10:48 AM Rating: Default
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SabastianSeraph wrote:
I hate this nerf and yes it is a nerf.

Like going with less people and have difficult fights? What was stopping you before? Go with less up the stars.

Like going with a large group from your linkshell? TO BAD. I missed out on the LS SP party last night because it got filled up too fast.

Going with 8 people doesn't make the leve's any more challenging than 15 don't kid yourself.

There's no content to get any decent SP without being in a full leve party with links.
Less people means less links which also means less SP.

We bring 15 man parties to the crystal with multiple runs with max links and everyone wins.
Now you've got only 1 run maybe two of dunesfolk/Revaries without max links, and your now doing the crap leve's with less links making those leves even more unbearable.

Tuesdays reset I as averaging 100k per leve grind session. 3ish hrs. Last night I made around HALF that.



EXACTLY! There was nothing stopping you before from making smaller groups, I leveled to 44 in nothing but 3-5 man groups. Now, however, that I am in a larger linkshell I get boned if I'm the 9th guy to want to join a group.

It's *** backwards. I could see if they wanted to promote smaller parties if the content was there or even rolled out at the same time. It's not. You have very limited activities in this game to partake in, now you're penalized for doing it together.
#22 Feb 18 2011 at 10:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Seikninkuru wrote:
SabastianSeraph wrote:
I hate this nerf and yes it is a nerf.

Like going with less people and have difficult fights? What was stopping you before? Go with less up the stars.

Like going with a large group from your linkshell? TO BAD. I missed out on the LS SP party last night because it got filled up too fast.

Going with 8 people doesn't make the leve's any more challenging than 15 don't kid yourself.

There's no content to get any decent SP without being in a full leve party with links.
Less people means less links which also means less SP.

We bring 15 man parties to the crystal with multiple runs with max links and everyone wins.
Now you've got only 1 run maybe two of dunesfolk/Revaries without max links, and your now doing the crap leve's with less links making those leves even more unbearable.

Tuesdays reset I as averaging 100k per leve grind session. 3ish hrs. Last night I made around HALF that.



EXACTLY! There was nothing stopping you before from making smaller groups, I leveled to 44 in nothing but 3-5 man groups. Now, however, that I am in a larger linkshell I get boned if I'm the 9th guy to want to join a group.

It's *** backwards. I could see if they wanted to promote smaller parties if the content was there or even rolled out at the same time. It's not. You have very limited activities in this game to partake in, now you're penalized for doing it together.


This would make perfect sense on why they did it they way that they are doing it. You can still do the 15 person parties, but they are working towards making it 8. By reducing the comfort level of large parties, when they have the 4-8 person content people are not completely up in arms. But, meh, there is no way it will satisfy everyone, and this is definitely one of those hard decisions that I am hopeful is more beneficial than painful. So far, I feel that has been true of what's happened in the past month... But I will continue to wait and see.
#23 Feb 18 2011 at 11:01 AM Rating: Decent
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rfolkker wrote:
Seikninkuru wrote:
SabastianSeraph wrote:
I hate this nerf and yes it is a nerf.

Like going with less people and have difficult fights? What was stopping you before? Go with less up the stars.

Like going with a large group from your linkshell? TO BAD. I missed out on the LS SP party last night because it got filled up too fast.

Going with 8 people doesn't make the leve's any more challenging than 15 don't kid yourself.

There's no content to get any decent SP without being in a full leve party with links.
Less people means less links which also means less SP.

We bring 15 man parties to the crystal with multiple runs with max links and everyone wins.
Now you've got only 1 run maybe two of dunesfolk/Revaries without max links, and your now doing the crap leve's with less links making those leves even more unbearable.

Tuesdays reset I as averaging 100k per leve grind session. 3ish hrs. Last night I made around HALF that.



EXACTLY! There was nothing stopping you before from making smaller groups, I leveled to 44 in nothing but 3-5 man groups. Now, however, that I am in a larger linkshell I get boned if I'm the 9th guy to want to join a group.

It's *** backwards. I could see if they wanted to promote smaller parties if the content was there or even rolled out at the same time. It's not. You have very limited activities in this game to partake in, now you're penalized for doing it together.


This would make perfect sense on why they did it they way that they are doing it. You can still do the 15 person parties, but they are working towards making it 8. By reducing the comfort level of large parties, when they have the 4-8 person content people are not completely up in arms. But, meh, there is no way it will satisfy everyone, and this is definitely one of those hard decisions that I am hopeful is more beneficial than painful. So far, I feel that has been true of what's happened in the past month... But I will continue to wait and see.



I don't really feel people need to be "trained" in how to play. I see more exclusion from this change, not more inclusion. I'm not going to invite a ninth member to my party for an SP hit. That person is the odd man out. This will help more groups form? No it won't, not until people stop being stubborn and use the party search feature or form pugs. It happens, just much too few and far between. I agree you can't satisfy anyone, but as I said, it's rolled out in a backwards fashion. They basically took away without anything to counter balance what they took away. So you're stuck doing the same things you've been doing, but can't include all your friends. I see that as a step backwards. Hopefully you're right that it's a good change, but I've not experienced anything enjoyable from it as of yet(only been one day so who knows :D).
#24 Feb 18 2011 at 2:13 PM Rating: Good
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Seikninkuru wrote:

I don't really feel people need to be "trained" in how to play. I see more exclusion from this change, not more inclusion. I'm not going to invite a ninth member to my party for an SP hit. That person is the odd man out. This will help more groups form? No it won't, not until people stop being stubborn and use the party search feature or form pugs. It happens, just much too few and far between. I agree you can't satisfy anyone, but as I said, it's rolled out in a backwards fashion. They basically took away without anything to counter balance what they took away. So you're stuck doing the same things you've been doing, but can't include all your friends. I see that as a step backwards. Hopefully you're right that it's a good change, but I've not experienced anything enjoyable from it as of yet(only been one day so who knows :D).

I completely disagree. The one thing people most need to make grouping "mainstream" is standardization. It's so hard to measure group strength and find the correct mobs when you can have anything from a trio to a 15-man clustermug. When everyone knows that 8-man is the way to go, mapping camps/encounters becomes much more manageable and you can actually start building PUGs.

Also, the party seek function needs to be inverted. The party leader really needs to be able to pick and choose the members, not the other way around.
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#25 Feb 18 2011 at 2:23 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Adjustment has been made to the amount of party bonuses on skill and experience points for a party with 8 or more members. Amount of party bonuses awarded per player will now be capped once the number of party members reaches 8 and will decrease by having more members.



Read this very carefully.

The bonus is reduced over 8 members.

That means that there is still a bonus to 9,10,11 etc. but it is less than the bonus for 4,5,6,7,8. This does not mean that the optimal party size is 8.

This is really quite simple to test. Let's get some facts up in here.


#26 Feb 18 2011 at 2:25 PM Rating: Good
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Does the 9th man actually lower SP for anyone? Doubtful.



#27 Feb 18 2011 at 2:27 PM Rating: Decent
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RufuSwho wrote:

That means that there is still a bonus to 9,10,11 etc. but it is less than the bonus for 4,5,6,7,8. This does not mean that the optimal party size is 8.

This is really quite simple to test. Let's get some facts up in here.

Good observation, though if I had a hat, I'd eat it if 8-man wasn't at least intended to be optimal.
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#28 Feb 18 2011 at 2:28 PM Rating: Good
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RufuSwho wrote:
Quote:
Adjustment has been made to the amount of party bonuses on skill and experience points for a party with 8 or more members. Amount of party bonuses awarded per player will now be capped once the number of party members reaches 8 and will decrease by having more members.



Read this very carefully.

The bonus is reduced over 8 members.

That means that there is still a bonus to 9,10,11 etc. but it is less than the bonus for 4,5,6,7,8. This does not mean that the optimal party size is 8.

This is really quite simple to test. Let's get some facts up in here.




there is more to it then that even alot of people dont realize and never have
the "bonus" as it is, was only to offset the penalty for having more people int he group in general
for those who dont understand this, a basic example


you get 300 SP for killing a mob solo
you get 150 for killing it with 2 people, but the SP bonus brings it up to 250, thus you get a quicker kill for less SP
with 3 people it oes down to 100 per kill, but the bonus brings it up to 200

and so on and so forth


all that is happening "now" is that past 8 people the bonus isnt going to be as large, the reduction in SP per extra party member was always there, the bonus just offset it from killing the SP completely
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#29 Feb 18 2011 at 3:11 PM Rating: Good
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Vedis wrote:
RufuSwho wrote:
Quote:
Adjustment has been made to the amount of party bonuses on skill and experience points for a party with 8 or more members. Amount of party bonuses awarded per player will now be capped once the number of party members reaches 8 and will decrease by having more members.



Read this very carefully.

The bonus is reduced over 8 members.

That means that there is still a bonus to 9,10,11 etc. but it is less than the bonus for 4,5,6,7,8. This does not mean that the optimal party size is 8.

This is really quite simple to test. Let's get some facts up in here.




there is more to it then that even alot of people dont realize and never have
the "bonus" as it is, was only to offset the penalty for having more people int he group in general
for those who dont understand this, a basic example


you get 300 SP for killing a mob solo
you get 150 for killing it with 2 people, but the SP bonus brings it up to 250, thus you get a quicker kill for less SP
with 3 people it oes down to 100 per kill, but the bonus brings it up to 200

and so on and so forth


all that is happening "now" is that past 8 people the bonus isnt going to be as large, the reduction in SP per extra party member was always there, the bonus just offset it from killing the SP completely


My Kingdom for a SP chart, based on a fixed SP reward, showing the final SP reward value for party sizes 1 through 15.


#30 Feb 18 2011 at 3:28 PM Rating: Good
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RufuSwho wrote:
Does the 9th man actually lower SP for anyone? Doubtful.





It did last night for us, 20% reduction in SP gains from the 9th member. I suggest checking it out for yourselves. :)
#31 Feb 18 2011 at 3:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Omena wrote:
Seikninkuru wrote:

I don't really feel people need to be "trained" in how to play. I see more exclusion from this change, not more inclusion. I'm not going to invite a ninth member to my party for an SP hit. That person is the odd man out. This will help more groups form? No it won't, not until people stop being stubborn and use the party search feature or form pugs. It happens, just much too few and far between. I agree you can't satisfy anyone, but as I said, it's rolled out in a backwards fashion. They basically took away without anything to counter balance what they took away. So you're stuck doing the same things you've been doing, but can't include all your friends. I see that as a step backwards. Hopefully you're right that it's a good change, but I've not experienced anything enjoyable from it as of yet(only been one day so who knows :D).

I completely disagree. The one thing people most need to make grouping "mainstream" is standardization. It's so hard to measure group strength and find the correct mobs when you can have anything from a trio to a 15-man clustermug. When everyone knows that 8-man is the way to go, mapping camps/encounters becomes much more manageable and you can actually start building PUGs.

Also, the party seek function needs to be inverted. The party leader really needs to be able to pick and choose the members, not the other way around.



I disagree. The only thing causing the supposed problem of standardization is the way in which the mobs were designed. I don't need training wheels to tell me to do the content with 8 people if that's how it was designed. I guess you don't really understand my point so let me reiterate.

There has been no added content other than NMs(this is irrelevant because you don't hunt NMs for SP)

The group size is 15(IMO the only reason this wasn't had capped at 8 is because it is easier to leave in the ability to create what they deem a "raid" rather than a system in which two(or more) groups link together to form a "raid".

Previously you could run in groups of 3-15 and enjoy a similar pace of progression, with the smaller groups having tougher fights overall, but more SP rewarded per(since there was less split).

Now you are doing the same thing, but lose out on anything above 8. The only thing that has changed is the ability to include more friends in your adventures. There was no new content added to make eight person parties better, just an algorithim to punish you for going over that.

Now sure, there is probably something planned down the road for that party size. That is great! I just fail to see how this change adds anything beneficial to the current product. Someone said it very well, "Taking back the Christmas gifts".

Who knows maybe the patch on the 21st will have content, I'm not expecting it to as from what I read it is the patch they are implementing with increased account service protection.

Also, whether or not the party search feature sucks seems quite silly to me. Yes it would be good to have the ability to seek a party in addition to what we currently have, but there is also no reason not to use what we have now to make grouping easier.


Edit: I didn't mean to post back to back like this but I'm still learning the ins and outs of this forum + how to use it on my phone. Sorry :)

Edited, Feb 18th 2011 4:42pm by Seikninkuru
#32 Feb 18 2011 at 3:48 PM Rating: Good
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Seikninkuru wrote:
RufuSwho wrote:
Does the 9th man actually lower SP for anyone? Doubtful.





It did last night for us, 20% reduction in SP gains from the 9th member. I suggest checking it out for yourselves. :)


Right on, thanks for the reply! Will do.
#33 Feb 18 2011 at 3:56 PM Rating: Decent
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RufuSwho wrote:
Seikninkuru wrote:
RufuSwho wrote:
Does the 9th man actually lower SP for anyone? Doubtful.





It did last night for us, 20% reduction in SP gains from the 9th member. I suggest checking it out for yourselves. :)


Right on, thanks for the reply! Will do.



Please post back your results when you get a chance as I'm interested in hearing them. Maybe it was a late night flub on our parts due to levels? :)
#34 Feb 18 2011 at 4:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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I haven't posted on ZAM in awhile, but perhaps some of this information can help you guys out regarding the SP changes to party.

I've done a bit of observation and data collection over the last week regarding the SP system, including right after the 1.15b patch. It seems that what they did was 'cap' the number of players within the -10/+5 rank range that you can receive a bonus from. For instance, if you have 10 people in party and all 10 are in the -10/+5 range, you will still only receive credit for 8 of those. In fact, if you take 2 situations - one with 10/10 in range and one with 9/10 in range, both situations will yield the exact same SP if you try it out.

I have a table that I would still consider a work in progress, but is for the most part complete that maps out the reduction of SP for each party size and # of members in range -10/+5.

Party SP Table

In the situation described earlier where someone mentioned having a group of 8 all in range, then adding a 9th in range, you should see roughly a 10-11% drop-off (from 65% to 58%, where 58/65~=89% of previous).

If you're interested in seeing how SP is actually calculated more precisely in game, here is my data collection and results:

Part I
Part II

Hope this helps.

Edited, Feb 18th 2011 5:05pm by Kaeko
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#35 Feb 19 2011 at 1:28 AM Rating: Decent
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My leve static had 7-11 people each night. After this nerf only the first 8 people that arrive get to do the leve's. So people get left out and can't get as much SP w/o the full group. I hope the Japanese are complaining about it so maybe they do something to make it better.
#36 Feb 19 2011 at 1:48 AM Rating: Excellent
If more than eight people show up, why not have two groups of four and five people? That way, everyone can still be involved.
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#37 Feb 19 2011 at 2:19 AM Rating: Default
they nerfed behest and big parties

basically cut their own throat for group play

the sp gain in 15 party behest with all member within +/- 5 ranks is roughly about 40% less

i can understand this if there is content to support it.
and so i await until monday to see if there is
but as is
this last update is a nerfdate.

i think yoshi wanted to introduce more stragety to party play to stop large groups just nuking mobs on grinds on behests.

but he does so by punishing the player.
instead what he really should do is make the mobs and especially the bosses in behests harder.

this is very lazy game design.

and i hope they change it back soon because this is a mistake
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#38 Feb 19 2011 at 4:35 AM Rating: Decent
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RufuSwho wrote:
Vedis wrote:
RufuSwho wrote:
Quote:
Adjustment has been made to the amount of party bonuses on skill and experience points for a party with 8 or more members. Amount of party bonuses awarded per player will now be capped once the number of party members reaches 8 and will decrease by having more members.



Read this very carefully.

The bonus is reduced over 8 members.

That means that there is still a bonus to 9,10,11 etc. but it is less than the bonus for 4,5,6,7,8. This does not mean that the optimal party size is 8.

This is really quite simple to test. Let's get some facts up in here.




there is more to it then that even alot of people dont realize and never have
the "bonus" as it is, was only to offset the penalty for having more people int he group in general
for those who dont understand this, a basic example


you get 300 SP for killing a mob solo
you get 150 for killing it with 2 people, but the SP bonus brings it up to 250, thus you get a quicker kill for less SP
with 3 people it oes down to 100 per kill, but the bonus brings it up to 200

and so on and so forth


all that is happening "now" is that past 8 people the bonus isnt going to be as large, the reduction in SP per extra party member was always there, the bonus just offset it from killing the SP completely


My Kingdom for a SP chart, based on a fixed SP reward, showing the final SP reward value for party sizes 1 through 15.




ill see what i can do about testing group size vs sp on various mobs
finding a group of people willing to take the time to do this is the hard part
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#39 Feb 19 2011 at 4:39 AM Rating: Good
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*Sorry double post.

Edited, Feb 19th 2011 5:40am by TerraSonicX
#40 Feb 19 2011 at 4:39 AM Rating: Good
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Vedis wrote:

ill see what i can do about testing group size vs sp on various mobs
finding a group of people willing to take the time to do this is the hard part


Someone already beat you to it. Read Kaeko's post.
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#41 Feb 19 2011 at 7:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Well.
If less people in a PT means more necessity for elaborate tactics and coordination,
and less zerg, I'm all for it.

I guess that was what the Duck was aiming at: real party play.
Currently, in 15-man parties, you do no have party play.
You have melee guys spamming weaponskills and healers spamming
AOE heals (on each other sometimes).
#42 Feb 19 2011 at 7:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
healers spamming
AOE heals


[imo]

God I hope they do something about this. AoE heals are something so broken at this point.

[/imo]
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#43 Feb 19 2011 at 9:53 AM Rating: Good
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Kaeko wrote:
I haven't posted on ZAM in awhile, but perhaps some of this information can help you guys out regarding the SP changes to party.

I've done a bit of observation and data collection over the last week regarding the SP system, including right after the 1.15b patch. It seems that what they did was 'cap' the number of players within the -10/+5 rank range that you can receive a bonus from. For instance, if you have 10 people in party and all 10 are in the -10/+5 range, you will still only receive credit for 8 of those. In fact, if you take 2 situations - one with 10/10 in range and one with 9/10 in range, both situations will yield the exact same SP if you try it out.

I have a table that I would still consider a work in progress, but is for the most part complete that maps out the reduction of SP for each party size and # of members in range -10/+5.

Party SP Table

In the situation described earlier where someone mentioned having a group of 8 all in range, then adding a 9th in range, you should see roughly a 10-11% drop-off (from 65% to 58%, where 58/65~=89% of previous).

If you're interested in seeing how SP is actually calculated more precisely in game, here is my data collection and results:

Part I
Part II

Hope this helps.

Edited, Feb 18th 2011 5:05pm by Kaeko


This is super awesome. Please print this info it poster size so I can hang on my wall. Thank you.
#44 Feb 19 2011 at 10:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Kaeko wrote:

If you're interested in seeing how SP is actually calculated more precisely in game, here is my data collection and results:

Part I
Part II

Excellent work.
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#45 Feb 19 2011 at 10:44 AM Rating: Good
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blueazaka wrote:
My leve static had 7-11 people each night. After this nerf only the first 8 people that arrive get to do the leve's. So people get left out and can't get as much SP w/o the full group. I hope the Japanese are complaining about it so maybe they do something to make it better.



You guys actually would make a 9th or 10th person sit out and not be allowed to participate? That's awfully rude and elitist sounding to me. Jeez, we can easily get 400-900 exp per kill in leves now and some people area actually bogarting the exp if others want to join? By the exp loss by adding a few people, you can easily get all of that back by soloing for 5-10 minutes.

I rather have fun with more people then make others feel left out and have less people, just so I could get a few more exp per kill.

I saw people in behest doing this too. How retarded can they really be? So, they wont accept anyone over 8 members, so they rather a 2nd party take half of their mobs. People are so fixated on seeing "big" numbers for exp that they are willing to make things even worse just to see a few bigger numbers.

Edited, Feb 19th 2011 12:40pm by Scape13
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#46 Feb 19 2011 at 1:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Scape13 wrote:
blueazaka wrote:
My leve static had 7-11 people each night. After this nerf only the first 8 people that arrive get to do the leve's. So people get left out and can't get as much SP w/o the full group. I hope the Japanese are complaining about it so maybe they do something to make it better.



You guys actually would make a 9th or 10th person sit out and not be allowed to participate? That's awfully rude and elitist sounding to me. Jeez, we can easily get 400-900 exp per kill in leves now and some people area actually bogarting the exp if others want to join? By the exp loss by adding a few people, you can easily get all of that back by soloing for 5-10 minutes.

I rather have fun with more people then make others feel left out and have less people, just so I could get a few more exp per kill.

I saw people in behest doing this too. How retarded can they really be? So, they wont accept anyone over 8 members, so they rather a 2nd party take half of their mobs. People are so fixated on seeing "big" numbers for exp that they are willing to make things even worse just to see a few bigger numbers.

Edited, Feb 19th 2011 12:40pm by Scape13


Lets not forget that the 3 extra people also arent contributing their leves by making them sit out too
having everyone to a complete extra run fully linked of the leve can actualy end up being more sp overall then when you make them sit out.

and in the end, alot of people who run statics(my shell) do so as a group activity, so we wont be making them sit out, especialy if its a LS thing.
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