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Hard Work Lost? The Potential Removal of Physical Levels Follow

#52 Feb 18 2011 at 7:14 AM Rating: Good
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I always thought that I gave myself an "advantage" so to speak by leveling many classes evenly instead of powering one class to 50. I typically have a higher physical level than my friends who are similar ranks.

That said, if it vanished I don't think I would really lose anything. Sure I might not have wasted time taking leatherworking up to 10 or so, but really who cares. I mean one day I might decide to take those classes higher and it won't be that much lost time if I don't.

If they do the game right, then there will be some mid level ability (if not high level) that we will want off of every class in the game, giving us incentive to want to level every class.

I think SE didn't realize the full ramifications of letting us tweak attributes so heavily. They basically removed 90% of the effectiveness of attributes in order to let us customize them. So whats the point? They may as well lock them if they don't mean anything. I just want stats to mean something again.
#53 Feb 18 2011 at 7:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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I wouldn't care at all if they get rid of Physical Level. I'd rather have the class rank determine the stats, then allocating them everytime I change my class just to be effective.

And you can't really talk of "Hard Work" for something thats just a byproduct of everything you do.
#54 Feb 18 2011 at 8:18 AM Rating: Decent
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I was thinking... Maybe they could make an easy and expert mode to Physical Level and Point Allotment.

Some people enjoy having so much control over where the points go.

The system falls apart when switching classes therefore if there was and easy mode, where stats and elementals were presets (just like the equaliser for music, e.g Rock, Bass, ect.) it would make life easier for someone with THM, PUG, WVR, ALC, MIN for example.

If you really wanted to get down and dirty, hit the expert mode, which would simply be the Reassign option with all the restrictions and benefits that come with having that control.

I currently switch between Botanist, Carpenter, Alchemist and Archer. I have ended up levelling out my points between STR,VIT,DEX and INT with MND and PEI not getting much love, which is okay for the four jobs i mentioned. (only using Main Hand stats for DoH.)

I get around not touching Point Allotment by carrying around 3 or 4 rings for each job. I use 3 STR +7 for my Botanist Main Hand and 3 INT +7 for Off Hand, Carpenter get the VIT rings and Alchemist get the INT rings with Archer just using Accuracy rings.

An easy mode would benefit me as when i switch jobs, point allotment would automatically adjust to one of the 'Preset' and if i decided to go all out on Archer with high Wind Elemental resistance then the option to specialise would still be there.
#55 Feb 18 2011 at 8:53 AM Rating: Decent
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IF YOU ARE PL 50 AND YOUR HIGEST RANK IS 30 THE STATS DO NOT MATTER ANYWAY.

There is a cap on stats people so if they do away with PL and link stats to rank guess what? your the same exact character with the same stats!..... PL is stupid as it is now so do away with it fast. The best idea is to give bonus points for EACH job so we can customize EACH job separately. At least that way i can play DoW DoL and DoM without a 6 hour stat reset (wow that is a dumb system)

I hope they do this soon.... it needs to be done fast.

#56 Feb 18 2011 at 9:14 AM Rating: Good
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dnored wrote:
IF YOU ARE PL 50 AND YOUR HIGEST RANK IS 30 THE STATS DO NOT MATTER ANYWAY.

There is a cap on stats people so if they do away with PL and link stats to rank guess what? your the same exact character with the same stats!..... PL is stupid as it is now so do away with it fast. The best idea is to give bonus points for EACH job so we can customize EACH job separately. At least that way i can play DoW DoL and DoM without a 6 hour stat reset (wow that is a dumb system)

I hope they do this soon.... it needs to be done fast.



Actually it does. The most significant impact is to your lower level classes, but you get exp so fast at those levels it doesn't matter much.

As an example I am PL47. Leveling Thm from 10 to 18 yesterday I was fighting mobs that gave me 1k sp in leves, and over 400 in normal combat. And this was with a decorated Sceptre, and zero gear (I didn't have the space for a third set of gear), Cure II, and spikes.

I could do this because for those levels all my stats are maxed. Why, because my physical level is high.

Strength 90 (90)
Vitality 90 (85)
Dexterity 89 (89)
Intelligence 60 (60)
Mind 70 (70)
Piety 60 (65)

With that setup, I am able to level every job to 20 without any concern to my stats, and still get to keep my gla stats. So, yes, it does make a difference to have a high physical level.

However, the problem, outside of people doing these odd and nearly (if not completely) worthless min/max setups. But, meh, who knows. I am curious to see how they do it, and I am ok with it at this point to try. If it works yay, if not, it will be time to hang it up. Either way, I will wait and see.
#57 Feb 18 2011 at 9:26 AM Rating: Decent
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It seems like, if you're striving for realism, that "physical" jobs would boost a physical level, and "mental" jobs would boost a mental level - and maybe crafting/gathering jobs are mix of the two.

For example, Steven Seagal is in top physical condition (hypothetically, of course!) because of his years of martial arts training. If he decided to get into boxing, he'd have a leg up on, say, Stephen Hawking. If Stephen Hawking, with his years of dedication to astrophysics, decided to get into botany, presumably he'd learn it faster than, say, Allakhazam, who hasn't spent his life sharpening his mind.

It just seems silly to take Mike Tyson and give him a sword and watch him hit as hard as the kid from Harry Potter.
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#58 Feb 18 2011 at 9:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Phys Level is a joke.

It requires no work to level, exp gains are MUCH higher than SP gains and it has meager contributions to your stats / skills. Plus, if all your stats are capped because you maxed phy level, what is the point?

If i wanted to max my phys level, I just level all jobs 1 - 15 and get 2k+ exp per kill on star marmots..
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#59 Feb 18 2011 at 10:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Am I upset about losing my physical levels? No, I'm excited at the potentials for improvements that they are doing. Whatever it is. And I agree with others, I didn't sweat gaining Physical Levels whatsoever. In fact, there were times, when I got a rank up and didn't even know it lol.
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#60 Feb 18 2011 at 10:39 AM Rating: Default
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rfolkker wrote:
dnored wrote:
IF YOU ARE PL 50 AND YOUR HIGEST RANK IS 30 THE STATS DO NOT MATTER ANYWAY.

There is a cap on stats people so if they do away with PL and link stats to rank guess what? your the same exact character with the same stats!..... PL is stupid as it is now so do away with it fast. The best idea is to give bonus points for EACH job so we can customize EACH job separately. At least that way i can play DoW DoL and DoM without a 6 hour stat reset (wow that is a dumb system)

I hope they do this soon.... it needs to be done fast.



Actually it does. The most significant impact is to your lower level classes, but you get exp so fast at those levels it doesn't matter much.

As an example I am PL47. Leveling Thm from 10 to 18 yesterday I was fighting mobs that gave me 1k sp in leves, and over 400 in normal combat. And this was with a decorated Sceptre, and zero gear (I didn't have the space for a third set of gear), Cure II, and spikes.

I could do this because for those levels all my stats are maxed. Why, because my physical level is high.

Strength 90 (90)
Vitality 90 (85)
Dexterity 89 (89)
Intelligence 60 (60)
Mind 70 (70)
Piety 60 (65)

With that setup, I am able to level every job to 20 without any concern to my stats, and still get to keep my gla stats. So, yes, it does make a difference to have a high physical level.

However, the problem, outside of people doing these odd and nearly (if not completely) worthless min/max setups. But, meh, who knows. I am curious to see how they do it, and I am ok with it at this point to try. If it works yay, if not, it will be time to hang it up. Either way, I will wait and see.

#61 Feb 18 2011 at 12:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Rekia wrote:


TempLoop wrote:
i agree with people that don't really care about their physical levels and would do away with them for the sake of making the game better, but people below physical level 40 stop posting and saying that it is just a 'side thing' or it isn't very hard because well, what would you know?


Because my physical level is 32 and not 40+ I have no idea what I'm talking about? Obviously within those last 8 ranks I will get some kind of magical insight that will change my view on the matter? I mean really? I guess I'll go level up alchemy a little like I had planned and then come back here and see if I still feel the same...

Edited, Feb 17th 2011 7:37pm by Rekia


it would be like a virgin getting a hand job and then giving *** advice...
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#62 Feb 18 2011 at 12:37 PM Rating: Decent
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timmyofalex wrote:
I am against removal of physcial level.
Not only it greatly reduce the attraction to lvl other class (be benifit by the high physical lvl,or actually lvling physical lvl), remove part of charater's progress, and it would make a vet adventurer excatly same as a new adventuer on a new job, which is totally illogical.


I agree, I like the fact that my character's strength is the same no matter what class I am. It never made sense to go from STR 70 to STR 5 when changing jobs in XI, I'm still in the same body dammit! They should still be capped to some extent, but a GLA 1 Physical 1 should not have the exact same stats as a GLA 1 Physical 50, just like a WAR 18 with no sub wouldn't have the same stats as a WAR 18/MNK 9.
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#63 Feb 18 2011 at 12:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Nainz wrote:
timmyofalex wrote:
I am against removal of physcial level.
Not only it greatly reduce the attraction to lvl other class (be benifit by the high physical lvl,or actually lvling physical lvl), remove part of charater's progress, and it would make a vet adventurer excatly same as a new adventuer on a new job, which is totally illogical.


I agree, I like the fact that my character's strength is the same no matter what class I am. It never made sense to go from STR 70 to STR 5 when changing jobs in XI, I'm still in the same body dammit! They should still be capped to some extent, but a GLA 1 Physical 1 should not have the exact same stats as a GLA 1 Physical 50, just like a WAR 18 with no sub wouldn't have the same stats as a WAR 18/MNK 9.


May I ask why you're applying real-world logic to a video game?
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#64 Feb 18 2011 at 12:56 PM Rating: Decent
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I never saw the point of physical level anyways. Level 50 physical with level 5 pugilist still gets owned by the same dodo that owns physical level 5 newbie with level 5 pugilist.
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#65 Feb 18 2011 at 1:11 PM Rating: Good
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legendof7th wrote:
I never saw the point of physical level anyways. Level 50 physical with level 5 pugilist still gets owned by the same dodo that owns physical level 5 newbie with level 5 pugilist.


while this is true, its cuz dodos are WAY higher then 5

now take a level 10 and fight a dodo at 10 phys vs 50 phys and you will see a difference
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#66 Feb 18 2011 at 1:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Actually yes, dodos are actually decent around lvl 12ish solowise.

Hmm, on second thought, I was probably wrong. I think I actually like the idea of a physical level. I really disliked the idea of having my lvl75 vet suddenly becoming lvl 5 and being killed by the same crap mobs that I was farming for mats.

However, what I do find annoying is that when changing from a melee job to a mage job, all of a sudden I need all those str relocated to int and the reallocation feature stinks.

Edited, Feb 18th 2011 2:44pm by legendof7th
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#67 Feb 18 2011 at 1:43 PM Rating: Good
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dnored wrote:
rfolkker wrote:
dnored wrote:
IF YOU ARE PL 50 AND YOUR HIGEST RANK IS 30 THE STATS DO NOT MATTER ANYWAY.

There is a cap on stats people so if they do away with PL and link stats to rank guess what? your the same exact character with the same stats!..... PL is stupid as it is now so do away with it fast. The best idea is to give bonus points for EACH job so we can customize EACH job separately. At least that way i can play DoW DoL and DoM without a 6 hour stat reset (wow that is a dumb system)

I hope they do this soon.... it needs to be done fast.



Actually it does. The most significant impact is to your lower level classes, but you get exp so fast at those levels it doesn't matter much.

As an example I am PL47. Leveling Thm from 10 to 18 yesterday I was fighting mobs that gave me 1k sp in leves, and over 400 in normal combat. And this was with a decorated Sceptre, and zero gear (I didn't have the space for a third set of gear), Cure II, and spikes.

I could do this because for those levels all my stats are maxed. Why, because my physical level is high.

Strength 90 (90)
Vitality 90 (85)
Dexterity 89 (89)
Intelligence 60 (60)
Mind 70 (70)
Piety 60 (65)

With that setup, I am able to level every job to 20 without any concern to my stats, and still get to keep my gla stats. So, yes, it does make a difference to have a high physical level.

However, the problem, outside of people doing these odd and nearly (if not completely) worthless min/max setups. But, meh, who knows. I am curious to see how they do it, and I am ok with it at this point to try. If it works yay, if not, it will be time to hang it up. Either way, I will wait and see.


I'm sorry, but I don't think I understand what you are saying by bolding that line. Below Rank 30 Physical level has the greatest impact. Even based on what you are saying. It's when you start getting above 30 that physical level becomes less important, as your stats begin to balance against your character level, and you can have weaknesses and strengths...

Or maybe I am misunderstanding something...
#68 Feb 18 2011 at 1:56 PM Rating: Decent
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LOL what hard work??? Leveling physical is a side bonus from all the crafting you've been doing, not to mention the grinding you do to rank up. So I fail to see your point.
#69 Feb 18 2011 at 2:00 PM Rating: Decent
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CURRENT SYSTEM! I like my customization and people QQing about stats.
#70 Feb 18 2011 at 2:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Honestly, how many of you out there have Phy Lv50 and are still 10-20 ranks away from seeing Rank 50?


/

THM34, CON32, GSM28, ALC24, WVR23, BSM21, CRP21, MIN18, BOT18, FSH14 (all to the best of my recollection)

Physical level: 50

I'm physical 50 and I'm not that close to Rank 50 on any particular job. It wasn't "hard work" to get my physical to 50, but there was certainly a considerable investment of time leveling that many jobs horizontally. I definitely earned my "physical 50", and if SE is going to just arbitrarily take it away from me, there better be something offered in consideration as a return on the investment of time.

Cash, prizes, attribute points, bonus items in-game, large sums of gil...I'll entertain any reasonable offer. If you just take away my "physical 50" without giving me something in return, we are going to have a problem.
#71 Feb 18 2011 at 2:35 PM Rating: Good
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thejones wrote:
Quote:
Honestly, how many of you out there have Phy Lv50 and are still 10-20 ranks away from seeing Rank 50?


/

THM34, CON32, GSM28, ALC24, WVR23, BSM21, CRP21, MIN18, BOT18, FSH14 (all to the best of my recollection)

Physical level: 50

I'm physical 50 and I'm not that close to Rank 50 on any particular job. It wasn't "hard work" to get my physical to 50, but there was certainly a considerable investment of time leveling that many jobs horizontally. I definitely earned my "physical 50", and if SE is going to just arbitrarily take it away from me, there better be something offered in consideration as a return on the investment of time.

Cash, prizes, attribute points, bonus items in-game, large sums of gil...I'll entertain any reasonable offer. If you just take away my "physical 50" without giving me something in return, we are going to have a problem.


Except the argument is that no effort is applied specifically to Physical Level 50: its leveling up is a consequence of the ranking system that's currently in place. Regardless of what job you rank up, or how, you gain exp, which affects your physical level and causes it to go up, completely beyond your means to control. Why should players be compensated for something that's automatic?
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Maglyn - 81 Gnome Protection Warrior - <Flaming Bunnies>


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#72 Feb 18 2011 at 6:23 PM Rating: Good
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I can already see the flames as I write, but this is what forums are for right?

I like the idea of PL:
1. Some of us would not have leveled several of the jobs we did if it had no effect on PL. To say that it is not a waste because the person has ranks in a job they don't want is like saying a person who got the wrong order at a restaurant should be happy because they still got food.
2. It's somewhat realistic to life. A person who changes their job in real life brings more to the table then someone with no job xp.
3. Call me a freak, I actually cap DEX on my LNC. As far as I can tell I don't miss often and about 1 in 5 hits is a crit. So I like the ability to customize my job and I accept/compensate for the disadvantages on my other jobs. There is no point in any customization if the only thing that is acceptable is the absolute min/max. The customization/ability to do things differently is what makes this a mmoRPG not mmoACTION game. That and perfer to find what works best for me by "playing" as opposed to simply looking up a build on "playgamethisway.com".
4. To me PL is the closest MMO equivalent to New Game +. How many people have played Wow or whatnot and just got sick of replaying the newbie level once for each character/job?
5. They set up this system to avoid fatigue and it's working, if the only thing that goes towards my lancer is my actual time on lancer then I'm about to see a lot more fatigue.

Personally, I suggested to SE that they expanded the system so you could have a template for each job instead of the current system. (To me this would be the best of both worlds combined. So a PL50 who never touched his archer would have some advantage and could, if they wanted, rush through those early levels or they could level it with their low level friend and still be on the same keel.

Now I do agree with the person who said that they should make stats matter more... If I could, I'd take off the level-stat caps. If a person wants to put all their points in nothing but STR, let them. Everyone will figure what works best for them. If they can get away if only hitting once in 10 swings but that hit is a 1 shot kill then Yay for them.

So will I care if they take it away? That depends entirely on what they replace it with. If they go to leveling you like in FFXI then I absolutely will care. I don't play MMOs so I can be the best on them. I play so I can be me (or at least some escapist version of me) on them. In short, whatever they replace it with I'd like to see at least the same level of customization.
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#73 Feb 18 2011 at 6:47 PM Rating: Good
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Quanta wrote:
thejones wrote:
Quote:
Honestly, how many of you out there have Phy Lv50 and are still 10-20 ranks away from seeing Rank 50?


/

THM34, CON32, GSM28, ALC24, WVR23, BSM21, CRP21, MIN18, BOT18, FSH14 (all to the best of my recollection)

Physical level: 50

I'm physical 50 and I'm not that close to Rank 50 on any particular job. It wasn't "hard work" to get my physical to 50, but there was certainly a considerable investment of time leveling that many jobs horizontally. I definitely earned my "physical 50", and if SE is going to just arbitrarily take it away from me, there better be something offered in consideration as a return on the investment of time.

Cash, prizes, attribute points, bonus items in-game, large sums of gil...I'll entertain any reasonable offer. If you just take away my "physical 50" without giving me something in return, we are going to have a problem.


Except the argument is that no effort is applied specifically to Physical Level 50: its leveling up is a consequence of the ranking system that's currently in place. Regardless of what job you rank up, or how, you gain exp, which affects your physical level and causes it to go up, completely beyond your means to control. Why should players be compensated for something that's automatic?


Personally I like crafting, but if a person only crafted to get xp no amount of sp is going to make that feel better. The results of leveling a job is automatic, but the decision to level a job you might not care for to get the xp benefit is not.

The thing to remember is PL was explained as the trade off benefit for fatigue (check the fatigue video or any early FFXIV previews). "No you can't just level your LNC up to 50, but you can level several different jobs and through your PL you can give bonuses to your LNC (and in addition, almost every skill you learn from another job you can use as your LNC). It was described as a feature. Now if someone said, "we found a security glitch in your automatic locks that make your car unsafe so we're going to take them out of your car." You'd have some reservations about it or want some compensation possibly both. I could give examples all day, but the heart of it is that the feeling of entitlement does not come from what we the players do, but from what SE says its doing or is going to do.

SE promised us free service until they got the game into shape. Do we deserve it? You could argue it either way until you're blue in the face. But I promise you if they started charging before that chart of Yoshi-P's is complete, there would be forum anarchy because it goes against SE's promise. The same with PL. They sold it as a benefit of the game and for those people who like it, its simply customer service not to take it away without something in it's place.
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#74 Feb 18 2011 at 10:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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rfolkker wrote:
dnored wrote:
rfolkker wrote:
dnored wrote:
IF YOU ARE PL 50 AND YOUR HIGEST RANK IS 30 THE STATS DO NOT MATTER ANYWAY.

There is a cap on stats people so if they do away with PL and link stats to rank guess what? your the same exact character with the same stats!..... PL is stupid as it is now so do away with it fast. The best idea is to give bonus points for EACH job so we can customize EACH job separately. At least that way i can play DoW DoL and DoM without a 6 hour stat reset (wow that is a dumb system)

I hope they do this soon.... it needs to be done fast.



Actually it does. The most significant impact is to your lower level classes, but you get exp so fast at those levels it doesn't matter much.

As an example I am PL47. Leveling Thm from 10 to 18 yesterday I was fighting mobs that gave me 1k sp in leves, and over 400 in normal combat. And this was with a decorated Sceptre, and zero gear (I didn't have the space for a third set of gear), Cure II, and spikes.

I could do this because for those levels all my stats are maxed. Why, because my physical level is high.

Strength 90 (90)
Vitality 90 (85)
Dexterity 89 (89)
Intelligence 60 (60)
Mind 70 (70)
Piety 60 (65)

With that setup, I am able to level every job to 20 without any concern to my stats, and still get to keep my gla stats. So, yes, it does make a difference to have a high physical level.

However, the problem, outside of people doing these odd and nearly (if not completely) worthless min/max setups. But, meh, who knows. I am curious to see how they do it, and I am ok with it at this point to try. If it works yay, if not, it will be time to hang it up. Either way, I will wait and see.


I'm sorry, but I don't think I understand what you are saying by bolding that line. Below Rank 30 Physical level has the greatest impact. Even based on what you are saying. It's when you start getting above 30 that physical level becomes less important, as your stats begin to balance against your character level, and you can have weaknesses and strengths...

Or maybe I am misunderstanding something...


From what I understand let's say you are a level 10 gladiator with PL 40. Assuming equal distribution in all stats your stats will be maxed. Now let's say you are a level 10 gladiator with PL 50. Even if you spend all the additional points of those 10 levels, your stats will be exactly the same as it was at PL 40.

But as another poster pointed out, PL does matter but only for new players. Obviously a Rank 10 Gladiator with PL 10 will be out done by a Rank 10 Gladiator with PL 50 even if his stats are capped since at PL 10 you won't have enough points to max your stats.

This gives more experienced players a slight advantage over new players similar to subjobs in FFXI but in this case PL is a joke to obtain and so the effect is greatly diminished.

On topic, losing physical levels would really be no loss at all. Switching from melee to caster or from DoL to DoH involves a lot of hassle in switching stats around if you like to min/max. Possibly we can keep physical levels but be given actual BONUS stat points instead, like 1 or 2 stats per physical level that you can tack on to any of your stats already granted by your current rank which can be reassigned at will. This still gives more experienced players a slight advantage.



Edited, Feb 18th 2011 11:38pm by Redscare
#75 Feb 19 2011 at 12:40 AM Rating: Default
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If you guys read the poll correctly you are not loseing anything just the physical level itself the the points will be yours to allocate to the ranks separately instead of a single governing physical level that's how I saw it.
#76 Feb 19 2011 at 1:44 AM Rating: Default
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I can understand why other players might think of it as "losing" something they earned. But I was actually pleasantly surprised when I read this in the poll. And here is why:

The idea behind the design of the game was such that leveling multiple jobs would progress the character forward in many ways, rather than just the linear way that MMO's tend to do. Getting abilities from other classes, and cross classing them would make your character more unique, and would allow for different styles of play.

The reality of the design is beyond laughable. There is almost no call for cross-classing a skill. There are a few exceptions, for example buffs from conjurer if one was playing a thaumaturge. But the problem is that if another conjurer is the party, then they will have a stronger buff, and it won't take them as long to cast it. There really isn't a call for cross-classing skills in a party. For anyone trying to make a make-shift paladin... why would you waste a slot on your Gladiator for Cure? That's the Conjurer's job anyway. In a dynamic group environment, everyone would play their role to the greatest extent that they could. I know that there are probably a few of you that might call me "uncreative" or "elitist," but the reality simply is that even in solo play, there are very few skills that would be worth cross-classing. Most of these skills fall under the Disciples of War, anyway. The only ones I can think off the top of my head that would be worth anything are Raging Strikes, Bloodbath, Second Wind, and.... Huh. I'm sure that there are others. I know I want quick-stride / chameleon for my healer, but I don't feel like leveling archer that high to get something I'd only use for getting around the game quicker.

Anywho... The point being, physical level was designed for us to feel that sense of linear growth in a character. I honestly feel that it was more or less there to make players feel pacified with the fatigue system. That way we wouldn't feel like SE was forcing us to start over all the time in the beginning. Because who doesn't love playing the first ten levels of the game over and over?

On top of that, stat allocation is annoying as ****. I'm sure some of you remember reading about the game features, or "A Day in the Life of an Adventurer," or whatever it was called. I remember thinking it would be really cool to go from being a Gladiator to a Thaumaturge to go help some friends. It just seemed so convenient. And in many ways, it is. But I've been leveling my Thaumaturge, and I wanted to level my Pugilist a bit more. I have a static party, and I know the LS is going to need some good healers for whenever any content comes out. Being that I want to be the best little mage that I can be, I put most of my stats into MND, PIE, and INT. Well let me tell you... all that INT comes in real handy when you're punching crap in the face. Yes, I know... "reassign your stats." Honestly, this is just a pain in the ****, I want to optimize my character for whatever role they are in. I don't want to have to choose between being really good at one job, and sucking at the others. I also don't like that when I switch from putting all my stats into INT/MND/PIE -> STR/DEX/VIT, that when I reassign them again, it takes points from every stat.... It's just frustrating, because before I got fatigued on both THM and CON, I had a very potent mage. Now, it would take me several "reassignments" to get my stats back into an optimal order.

I just think having physical level separated from rank is just not a practical idea. I liked it at first, when I thought that what SE was advertising was going to be worthwhile. Don't get me wrong. They're completely correct that we can change on the fly, redo -(to an extent)- your stats, and mix and match abilities to be whatever we want to be. What they were wrong about was how useful and efficient these things would be.

Question for you guys: On the polls, there was a question about if you had "felt the effects of the fatigue system." Was anyone else looking for the third option of, "Yes, I have experienced it. Please remove this 'feature,' as you call it, so I can actually level my character for more than two hours a week!"? I am so tired of this "feature" that I honestly stop playing for days because I can't do anything about it. I get on my main job and in one night I have accomplished just about all I am going to get to do. It's gotten to the point where I don't even try to power through the first few bits anymore. Don't worry. I've seen the neat little video on Youtube about how innovative this idea is. But to be blunt, this is a forced time sink. This was designed because SE didn't want players to level too quickly, and feel like the game was too easy. But the reality is, it would still take a decent amount of time to level a character to rank 50 without the fatigue system. I really don't feel like paying for weapons and armor sets for every single job in the game.... I just want to sit down and play the game without worrying if I have gotten too much experience at a time. I just feel it is redundant that the game tells the player to stop playing.

Thoughts on this? So far everyone I've talked to about this in game has given me the consensus that fatigue needs to go. It just doesn't have a practical function. But I want to know what people thought about the wording of the question. The poll only asked if we had felt the effect of fatigue.... Maybe that's the joke? That I'm so fatigued over the system that I want to call it quits? I'm just wondering what the real odds are that Yoshi-P will be awesome and remove this "feature."

Lets hope for some bright skies ahead!
#77 Feb 19 2011 at 5:00 AM Rating: Good
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Re: the poll and fatigue
No matter what we answer, SE can take a measure of ranks across all characters on all servers and determine whether their fatigue system worked as anticipated. If the Lodestone is available to us, SE surely has its own, more organized and sophisticated character data system.

For this reason, I doubt the question is a trap. It's asking for a more subjective response, "have you felt the effects of fatigue in such a way that has an impact on your gaming experience, or have you not noticed them at all?" As opposed to, "have you been cockslapped by our fatigue system yet? Y/N"

Edited, Feb 19th 2011 6:00am by Almalexia
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#78 Feb 19 2011 at 8:00 AM Rating: Decent
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OMG lose what hard work exactly.

Physical XP was gained at an insanely quick rate - getting to lvl 50 is anything but an achievment. It is meerly an indication that you have done a certain amount of activities in game. Crafting gave insane physical XP.

Just LOL at loss of hard work - I mean really come on!!!!! Hard......work!!!!!

Right!!!!
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#79 Feb 19 2011 at 7:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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This has been an informative thread, lots of interesting opinions and thoughts!

I am conflicted on the matter. On one hand, I really like that when I hop onto my R20 CON, thanks to my PL 46 I have way more HP and greater survivability than I did the "first time around" when I was a newbie ranking up my THM (hooboy, did I get my **** kicked by those forest funguars!). And it is nice to be able to play around with lower level DoW classes without having to worry too about stat reallocation.

On the other hand . . . I'm thinking of ranking my GLA from 20 up to 28 for Red Lotus II, but I really don't want to deal with stat reallocation. So if I do then let's just say I won't be tanking for anyone and will be doing more casting than I should. ^^; And it'd be nice if I had separate stats for my GLD, since as someone who focuses on DoM I don't really need a large amount of DEX.

So, if SE does do away with PL, I won't necessarily mind, so long as they don't make me feel like I've had something taken away from me or been made weaker.
#80 Feb 19 2011 at 10:41 PM Rating: Default
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TempLoop wrote:
i really enjoyed having something special because of the amount of time i put into the game


You still have "something special" from playing: it is known collectively as items, as money, as guild marks, and as other classes' ranks.

As I have said before, you get physical levels automatically; it's not taking away progress because there was nothing that only gave physical experience... anytime you were getting physical experience, you were ranking up, and possibly even getting gil, items, and marks while doing so. Removing physical levels from the game does not take anything from you because there was no way to not get it. Anybody who had a couple Rank ~30 classes was capped simply by virtue of that fact.

It's not like anybody tried to grind physical levels - at least nobody I've ever spoken to. Heck, stats barely do anything how it is, and they're capped based upon your level!

Stop acting like physical levels were some special achievement that took you far out of your way to gain; stop acting like you sacrificed so much just to get some physical levels at the cost of doing other things.


Edited, Feb 19th 2011 11:45pm by KaneKitty
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#81 Feb 19 2011 at 11:33 PM Rating: Good
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You people DO realize you are not loseing NOTHING! Just the physical level itself the points will be available to be re-allocated based on rank so now it seems instead of a governing physical level defining all ranks each rank will now have it's own attribute stats YOU will be able to re-allocate said points at your discretion. This is a much better approach to what we currently have and can open the door to actual skills defining our actions! I am all for this go Yoshi-P!

Edited, Feb 20th 2011 12:36am by Rankin657
#82 Feb 20 2011 at 4:09 AM Rating: Good
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Physical levels are stupid anyway
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#83 Feb 20 2011 at 11:04 PM Rating: Good
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leveling physical lvl is hard work? o: to me it just kinda happend
#84 Feb 21 2011 at 10:33 AM Rating: Decent
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I wouldn't feel that I wasted a lot of time if they decide to take out physical level because it's not very difficult to get to 50. I leveled a bunch of classes because of the fatigue system, and I also wanted to try a bunch. Before I knew it, I was level 50.

I don't want them to remove the current system though. I'm currently leveling conj(49) and pugilist(39). I do think it's inconvenient to have to wait for stat reset to play my other class well, but maybe that's how things should be. It's really the only limit to the current system, and you can get by it if you have the stat traits from other classes. This gives us another reason to level other disciplines. Of course you have to sacrifice your trait action points just to get your stats up, but that's a small penalty for obtaining the ability to bring a lot of roles to a fight. I wouldn't mind them removing the physical level, but I think they should keep the reallocation system with the long cooldowns; it somewhat forces each character to have one main discipline.

A lot of people are saying that stats don't really do much, but it's so much easier to rank up low rank classes if you have a high physical level. I think one reason we feel like stats don't do much is because we pretty much do the same amount of damage from rank 1 to rank 50 on mobs at our current rank. It's not like other games where as we rank up, mobs get more HP by insane amounts, and therefore we have to do a lot more damage every time we rank up. In other words, "good damage" on a weaponskill or nuke against a mob at your current rank is always going to be about 300-400 (without battle regimen) regardless of rank. In order to keep doing this kind of damage as we rank up, we need to keep our stats and equipment current/optimal.
#85 Feb 21 2011 at 10:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Well I think physical levels have gone far away from their original value and purpose.
I think the intention was for it to be what your ranked by, "Oh he's a level 50!" and be more like Ultima Online, where your level is a benchmark and your skills make up your overall class.

This kind of lost its meaning when they took HP and MP away from Physical Levels (they used to be their own stats in Alpha).
The problem is that your skills became your classes, rather than letting your make your class.
The only way to fix physical levels I think, would be to get rid of all ability requirements (Like Axe only, or Conj only, not level reqs) and give you access to all abilities, as long as you have AP. (Also, AP would have to be based on your physical level, not your class rank).

Short of doing that, which is not going to happen, Physical Levels have no value and could easily be done away with.

So, to fix Physical Levels, I think they'd have to give AP for physical levels. Right now I vote for the removal of them because the only way to make them have a true value would break the current FFXIV I feel.
#86 Feb 21 2011 at 10:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Onionthiefx wrote:
Is anyone upset about the prospect of losing their levels?


No.

Physical levels are only acquired through leveling other jobs anyway. It's "tacked on" exp that determines how many stat points you have in the god-awful stat point system we have now that makes it impossible to enjoy the full freedom the armory system was supposed to grant players.

Since they're going to be removing that horrible system (thank god), we won't need physical levels anymore. There's nothing you could do that would raise JUST your physical level so what's the concern?
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#87 Feb 21 2011 at 12:02 PM Rating: Decent
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
Perhaps I may be in the minority, but I wouldn't like it if S-E scrapped the idea of physical levels.

If anything, I saw it as an achievement to promote leveling different classes. Not to mention it was much easier to rank up new classes with a high physical level. Scrapping the system would make it feel too much like FFXI, and while that's a great game in its own right, I just don't like the idea of feeling like I'm starting over every time I play a new class.

That's just my two gil though, I voted for the first option where they have auto stat allocation for each physical level.

Edit: I also want to say that I'm not defending the idea that it's 'hard' work, but the system in place really reminds me of Final Fantasy V, and I absolutely loved that game and its job system. Only difference between this and that is that we have (soon, had) control over our stat growth, and FFV's system had Physical level/job rank separated as well but with auto stat allocation from the physical level.

Edited, Feb 18th 2011 1:44am by UltKnightGrover



The curve on the physical levels was too low. If anything SE should keep the physical levels but make it so it takes like 5 r50 jobs to get it capped. That way it will give players another reason as to why level several jobs, make it easier for players to level new jobs, implement another time sink, and so on.

I wouldn't be mad if they scaled our current rank to the new curve's if that were the case.
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#88 Feb 21 2011 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not sure how losing your physical levels is losing progress or "Hard work". You get it by doing...anything else. I doubt theres a single person who ventured out for the sole purpose of leveling up the Physical level. I'm sure the mindset of "I wanna try Archer/Tanner/Conjurer/ETC now" is much more likely.
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#89 Feb 21 2011 at 1:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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The majority of "hours" of work we put in to our physical level was mainly done leveling low easy to level classes and wasn't that hard. If they get rid of it you'll have the stats of what ever class you play and they'll fit your class.

This really doesn't make any difference.
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#90 Feb 21 2011 at 2:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Kitprower wrote:
I'm not sure how losing your physical levels is losing progress or "Hard work". You get it by doing...anything else. I doubt theres a single person who ventured out for the sole purpose of leveling up the Physical level. I'm sure the mindset of "I wanna try Archer/Tanner/Conjurer/ETC now" is much more likely.


Personally I got all my crafts above 10 just for the physical points, but I'd hardly call that hard work.
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