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Feeling less confident about the future of XIVFollow

#152 Feb 21 2011 at 2:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:

Yoshi hasn't done ANYTHING really - I mean, boosting SP was a good idea - but it doesn't really change anything. It doesn't give me content to do with my LS mates. If he has half the dev team working on pulling apart things that WORK already (instead of polishing them and making them work BETTER) then it will take twice as long for this game to be polished and twice as long for it to have fun content.


He did say his priority will be to fix things wrong with the game (fixing it.) which content doesn't fix the game. Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't care if I had unlimited things to do, if the game UI is too laggy or it still requires 3-5 seconds to fire off an ability after I click it occasionally I'm not going to have fun. Besieged in XI is a good example, some people can't do anything because of network lag, or they think they're doing something and they're actually not because the server doesn't recognize their actions till minutes later and they end up dead because they actually died at one point and didn't know. Content will come when it comes but he's mostly pushing out fixes which based on the chart is actually a lot of things XIV could and should've had if it wasn't rushed out the door.

So adding content ontop of an unoptimized base seems like the right thing to do on paper and keep the people wanting "things to do" happy, but in practice it will just make the foundational problems that much more apparent. Adding new content to answer feedback is actually worse than fixing older content based on feedback. Why should I have to play Musketeer to get my sense of job uniqueness when I fell in love with my Lancer and want THAT to feel unique?

I realistically wouldn't expect Gridania to get an overhaul even though it would actually be quite easy to do so, but generally new areas are always the answer to player feedback outside of stuff relating to stories because they generally introduce new leveling locations and the like.
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#153 Feb 21 2011 at 2:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Here, though? The only feature keeping single-class characters at least somewhat competitive was the physical level system. It wasn't perfect, but it was close to being that way with few small changes to close the gap between evenly distributed and specialized player. Right now they are going to strip that only advantage single-class players had in this game, making it even clearer that if you focus on only one class, you are going to be inferior. It is logical that someone who puts enough time into his character to level more than one class should be a stronger player than someone with only one class, but it's not always simply an issue of time- some people simply want to focus on a single class or playstyle.


This is like saying that players who level to 50 will always have an advantage over players who only level to 30: if the players at 30 don't like it, they can put the same effort in and level to 50.

MMOs give rewards to those who put the most time into the game, period. That's how it's always been and unless we get a true revolution in MMO design, that's the way it's going to stay.

Besides, is the advantage THAT huge? You can level all classes to 50 but you're still only ONE player. You're not going to be soloing NMs or anything like that because you have multiple 50s...

Mistress Theonehio wrote:
So adding content ontop of an unoptimized base seems like the right thing to do on paper and keep the people wanting "things to do" happy, but in practice it will just make the foundational problems that much more apparent. Adding new content to answer feedback is actually worse than fixing older content based on feedback.


Very well said.

Yoshi-P has been FIXING the game because, no matter how little the fleas of this game want to admit it, the game is broken as ****.

For the last time, people, slogging through terrible interface, laggy combat and mindlessly repetitive grinding does not make you special. It does not make you "hardcore". It means you were willing to put time and effort into something that you probably shouldn't have. Who in their right mind would wear that like a badge of honor?

Edited, Feb 21st 2011 3:47pm by TheRealDestian
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#154 Feb 21 2011 at 3:02 PM Rating: Default
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Mithsavvy wrote:

SE really doesn't care if they ailienate the existing play base as long as the capture a larger one.


As long as they capture a larger one.

And this is why I am feeling less confident about the future of XIV. I don't think destroying what the game does well by watering it all down with a mish-mash of mechanics decided by poll will actually capture a larger player base.

This strategy has fail written all over it.

In real life I work for an organization which has made decisions based on polls in the past. Those decisions were some of our biggest mistakes and they cost us dearly.

My experience has led me to having more confidence in a leader and a team with a vision versus making decisions by poll. I can only go with what I have seen in real life, and I've never seen a good decision made by following the whims of a poll. I understand people like to feel like they are being listened to, but often people don't know what they want. They know what they think they want, but in the end they get what they asked for and then they are unhappy.

I could be wrong, but anyway. This thread is less "omg SE is offending me I hate them and I am going to quit," and more "I am losing hope that this game will ever be profitable and that makes me sad because I had high hope for it."
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#155 Feb 21 2011 at 3:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's true. Sometimes, when you give people what they think they want, they don't like it. You have to give them what they never knew they wanted.

You aren't going to get 100% of people wanting the same thing anyway.

What has me most worried is the targeting and UI which still seems to "miss" button presses. The new Dev Team seems to be worried about major battle system design changes when they still haven't made the basics solid yet.

Pess button = something happens. This is a must.
#156 Feb 21 2011 at 3:23 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Mithsavvy wrote:

SE really doesn't care if they ailienate the existing play base as long as the capture a larger one.


As long as they capture a larger one.

And this is why I am feeling less confident about the future of XIV. I don't think destroying what the game does well by watering it all down with a mish-mash of mechanics decided by poll will actually capture a larger player base.


I think the direction of the game is kind of a no-brainer.

Polls will give Yoshi-P an idea of what players think they want, but unless he's an idiot, he won't fall into the trap of letting the players shape the game entirely.

I think he has a pretty good idea of what he wants to change. Any player with two braincells to rub together can play this game and see where it needs to be improved.

Quote:
This strategy has fail written all over it.


The game has already "failed". Had they left it pay to play for another month, it would've been dead already.

Yoshi-P could run the game into the ground and it still would be no worse than what had happened to it already.
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#157 Feb 21 2011 at 3:23 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Mithsavvy wrote:

SE really doesn't care if they ailienate the existing play base as long as the capture a larger one.


As long as they capture a larger one.

And this is why I am feeling less confident about the future of XIV. I don't think destroying what the game does well by watering it all down with a mish-mash of mechanics decided by poll will actually capture a larger player base.

This strategy has fail written all over it.

In real life I work for an organization which has made decisions based on polls in the past. Those decisions were some of our biggest mistakes and they cost us dearly.

My experience has led me to having more confidence in a leader and a team with a vision versus making decisions by poll. I can only go with what I have seen in real life, and I've never seen a good decision made by following the whims of a poll. I understand people like to feel like they are being listened to, but often people don't know what they want. They know what they think they want, but in the end they get what they asked for and then they are unhappy.

I could be wrong, but anyway. This thread is less "omg SE is offending me I hate them and I am going to quit," and more "I am losing hope that this game will ever be profitable and that makes me sad because I had high hope for it."


See I agree with most of your points on the idea, but I'm trying to be realistic.

If they move it towards the mainstream, they will likely lose the players who are head over heels in love with the game today. But there is a decent chance (would have been a good chance earlier, but competition is about to get stiff) they will get more players back. Similarly though, if they move more towards the 90s games, more partying, stiff curves etc, they will lose casual players to more casual games coming around. I feel, and I'm getting the impression that the people in charge agree, that they will benefit more from moving towards what other games are offering.

The whole reason for this debate is that from how SE is behaving, they are not happy with the current player base. For all intents and purposes, FFXIV went bust, and they're taking it back to see what they can do to release something people want. If the game was succeeding on its own merits, I'd be against any changes they made too. It would have been much easier to go "not for me, I'll move on". But that didn't happen, and now we have players being asked, and tugging the designers in 8 different directions.
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#158 Feb 21 2011 at 3:37 PM Rating: Default
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RufuSwho wrote:
Press button = something happens. This is a must.


Yeah, this is what I am talking about when I say they are wasting dev time pulling things (that work) apart that would be better used polishing what works.

Whether you like the current battle system or want auto-attack or whatever - there is no question that it works. It needs polish, yes, but it works. You can disagree with me on that but since people have gotten to rank 50 in their battle classes using it - IT WORKS. It isn't broken.

Again, just for emphasis - YOU not liking it doesn't make it broken.

Could it be better? Yes, it could be. But could a new system also be worse? Yep, most emphatically.


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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#159 Feb 21 2011 at 4:06 PM Rating: Good
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
RufuSwho wrote:
Press button = something happens. This is a must.


Yeah, this is what I am talking about when I say they are wasting dev time pulling things (that work) apart that would be better used polishing what works.

Whether you like the current battle system or want auto-attack or whatever - there is no question that it works. It needs polish, yes, but it works. You can disagree with me on that but since people have gotten to rank 50 in their battle classes using it - IT WORKS. It isn't broken.

Again, just for emphasis - YOU not liking it doesn't make it broken.

Could it be better? Yes, it could be. But could a new system also be worse? Yep, most emphatically.



The only wasted development time was before yoshi was handed this job.

Again for emphasis, YOU liking certain aspects of the game doesnt mean they dont need improvment or a complete overhaul.


This game is bleeding money right now and just like in the real world its either adapt or die. would you rather see it dead than use a system the majority of the population would prefer?

you mention going back to FFXI or even WoW....if yoshi turns this game into a combination of the two? huh? honestly, if the servers went down tomorrow where would you go next? chances are a game that has the same features you are thinking about leaving this one for.
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#160 Feb 21 2011 at 4:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
RufuSwho wrote:
Press button = something happens. This is a must.


Yeah, this is what I am talking about when I say they are wasting dev time pulling things (that work) apart that would be better used polishing what works.

Whether you like the current battle system or want auto-attack or whatever - there is no question that it works. It needs polish, yes, but it works. You can disagree with me on that but since people have gotten to rank 50 in their battle classes using it - IT WORKS. It isn't broken.

Again, just for emphasis - YOU not liking it doesn't make it broken.

Could it be better? Yes, it could be. But could a new system also be worse? Yep, most emphatically.


The flip side to that coin, Olo, is that you thinking it works doesn't make it not broken. Sure there may be functionality when you press your button, but that doesn't make it ok. I could ride a horse from NYC to LA. I mean, it works, right? But I'll be damned if I'm going to do it. My *** is getting on a plane. In my opinion, the reason SE is overhauling the battle system is because, even though something does in fact happen when you press your 1, the overall system is so repulsive to the potential player base that it inhibits the progress of the game. Your posts in this and other threads have clearly indicated that you prefer the battle system to remain largely unchanged, but the unfortunate truth is that you are grossly in the minority on this. We now have 2 official SE polls and a handful of unofficial ones on these forums to back up this assertion. I'm afraid you're swimming upstream, my friend.
#161 Feb 21 2011 at 4:43 PM Rating: Good
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theSubligaravenger wrote:
if the servers went down tomorrow where would you go next? chances are a game that has the same features you are thinking about leaving this one for.


Right back to Air Rivals or Rappelz myself Smiley: grin
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#162 Feb 21 2011 at 4:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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I just want to play FFXIV. I want it to work better. I want other people to like it so there is always people to enjoy my playtime with. I want it to become financially succesful so SE has the resources they need to create and publish expansions.

I think Olo is saying that the direction they are heading doesn't seem to be the required direction to make this happen.

User friendly game controls and additional content > reworking the underlying game mechanics.

If you have a game with janky targeting that is lacking content, who cares if there is Physical Level or not?

Auto-attack? Meh. I need to target the nearest enemy. Not the furthest.

On a side note: The scheduling between the PS3 release and the release of the Star Wars MMO could very well be a make or break decision for the future of FFXIV. If they try to rush out PS3 release to beat some other MMO schedule that would be disasterous. If I was on the marketing team, I would vote to let Star Wars release and the initial fervor die down before going round #2 with FFXIV.
#163 Feb 21 2011 at 5:30 PM Rating: Excellent
RufuSwho wrote:
I just want to play FFXIV. I want it to work better. I want other people to like it so there is always people to enjoy my playtime with. I want it to become financially succesful so SE has the resources they need to create and publish expansions.

I think Olo is saying that the direction they are heading doesn't seem to be the required direction to make this happen.

User friendly game controls and additional content > reworking the underlying game mechanics.

If you have a game with janky targeting that is lacking content, who cares if there is Physical Level or not?

Auto-attack? Meh. I need to target the nearest enemy. Not the furthest.

On a side note: The scheduling between the PS3 release and the release of the Star Wars MMO could very well be a make or break decision for the future of FFXIV. If they try to rush out PS3 release to beat some other MMO schedule that would be disasterous. If I was on the marketing team, I would vote to let Star Wars release and the initial fervor die down before going round #2 with FFXIV.


the great thing about having a development team is that the team as a whole can work on the entire game while working in smaller sub teams. reading the planned updates you can easily see they are in fact working on auto attack and many more improvements and changes to the UI as well as content.

I dont see how this can be seen as taking the wrong direction. the game currently is an utter failure, the only way to go is forward.



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#164 Feb 21 2011 at 5:30 PM Rating: Default
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Well, as many of you know I've been a pretty staunch supporter for this game in general, all the way back since open beta. And truly, other than a lack of story-based content, I genuinely enjoy this game.

However, the last letter from Yoshi-P has me feeling less confident than ever about the future. Things like marking quest NPCs (thereby taking the joy of discovery out of the game), the hint of things being heavily instanced, the possible scrapping of skill point allotment, and the possible addition of auto-attack, all combine to leave me thinking I should just quit and go back to XI or WoW now, before I get any more invested in my character.

I know a lot of people voted for radical change in the first poll, but then again - most of the people who voted don't play. Truth be told, I am skeptical even half of them would EVER play this game again, even if Yoshi turns this game into the mutant child of WoW and XI that it looks like it is shaping up to be.

So meanwhile, players like me, that genuinely enjoy the game as it is, are supposed to not care if they scrap everything we like about it? Yeah I know some people will come on here and call me down for liking the game as is, but whatever. There is no accounting for taste - we all like different things - that shouldn't be a point of contention.

Yoshi promised that we wouldn't lose any of our progress - but if they change things so much that what we invested in doesn't work the same at all -- like if they made conjurer into a white mage - and I got to keep my ranks but lost all the skills that I ranked up the class TO GET... well it is almost the same as wiping you. Keeping ranks alone doesn't cut it. I've ranked up a lot of jobs not for the job but for the cross-classable skills. If all of the sudden I can't cross class those skills - or those skills are on a different class - or they are totally gimped by new restrictions - I am losing what I worked for.

So yeah, I admit it. I am totally depressed about this game. I had high hopes for it but I am starting to think I would be better off letting go now, before they ruin everything I like about this game - before they mess up my character and take away my skills - or replace the combat I enjoy with an auto-attack snooze-fest.

That, and the fact that we are still waiting to hear when the content patch is... well I am tired of it - tired of being taken for granted - because although I haven't paid a monthly fee yet, my time is a currency in itself - and without the people that are currently playing - even for free - SE WOULD HAVE NOTHING - NO HOPE FOR THIS GAME - yet the people who are actually holding this game together - and GIVING NEW PLAYERS A REASON TO BUY THE BOX are being treated like mushrooms - kept in the dark and fed bullsh1t.

I think that people who love this game should have a greater voice at the table than people who badmouth it... but instead it seems like the opposite - and I know the haters will come out and say "well they need to get us people to play" and I would say NO - they need to get more people to play - but they should be reaching out to those who haven't already decided they hate everything about the game as it is.

What this game needs is not to get pulled apart - NO! It is a waste of dev time. It needs content. Content! Content! Them wasting time adding auto-attack will do nothing to draw new people in. It will do nothing to keep existing players like myself.

I'm feeling less confident about the future of XIV.

*THIS*! I got exactly the same feelings after last Yoshi-P letter... I was in love since closed alpha stages with this game but now, I'm just uncertain, i hope it still will be good and all... I'm worried as **** :/
#165 Feb 21 2011 at 5:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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RufuSwho wrote:
On a side note: The scheduling between the PS3 release and the release of the Star Wars MMO could very well be a make or break decision for the future of FFXIV. If they try to rush out PS3 release to beat some other MMO schedule that would be disasterous. If I was on the marketing team, I would vote to let Star Wars release and the initial fervor die down before going round #2 with FFXIV.

Any idea what kind of following Star Wars has in Japan? Seems Japan is where the PS3 release of FFXIV would have the biggest numbers and those are the people SE will mostly plan around. If there isn't a huge Star Wars following there than I wouldn't think there's too much to worry about.
#166 Feb 21 2011 at 5:52 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
The main issue for me is that they need to get the game back into a playable state until April-May time.

This is when SW:TOR is (roughly) set to be released.


Not to split hairs/derail here, but there's no way TOR will be released in April or May. EA just recently announced in fact that they're expecting it in the "late 2011 calendar year". There would be announcements, or heck even an open beta by now if it were to be released in nearly two months time.
#167 Feb 21 2011 at 6:16 PM Rating: Good
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theSubligaravenger wrote:
the great thing about having a development team is that the team as a whole can work on the entire game while working in smaller sub teams. reading the planned updates you can easily see they are in fact working on auto attack and many more improvements and changes to the UI as well as content.

I dont see how this can be seen as taking the wrong direction. the game currently is an utter failure, the only way to go is forward.


I wonder what the actual size of the Team for FFXIV (total) is?

I just can't grasp the entirety of what is required in man power, and how the FFXIV team compares to that requirement in simple personnel numbers.
#168 Feb 21 2011 at 6:16 PM Rating: Decent
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theSubligaravenger wrote:


you mention going back to FFXI or even WoW....if yoshi turns this game into a combination of the two? huh? honestly, if the servers went down tomorrow where would you go next? chances are a game that has the same features you are thinking about leaving this one for.


Well... if I wanted to play WoW or XI - I would play WoW or XI... that is what I am getting at. At this point I'm pretty sure I am going to go back to XI if I can get the payment worked out. Really too bad I can't use my crysta to pay for that. I'm going to desub my char however, and hold the crysta till this game gets better - or until I can pay for XI with crysta.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#169 Feb 21 2011 at 6:42 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
RufuSwho wrote:
Press button = something happens. This is a must.


Yeah, this is what I am talking about when I say they are wasting dev time pulling things (that work) apart that would be better used polishing what works.

Whether you like the current battle system or want auto-attack or whatever - there is no question that it works. It needs polish, yes, but it works. You can disagree with me on that but since people have gotten to rank 50 in their battle classes using it - IT WORKS. It isn't broken.

Again, just for emphasis - YOU not liking it doesn't make it broken.

Could it be better? Yes, it could be. But could a new system also be worse? Yep, most emphatically.


The battle system occasionally not registering button presses is a HUGE problem (and yes, it DOES have this issue).

Players who want to play FFXIV and attempt to do so are going to drop this game like a sack of potatoes when the battle system starts missing their button presses.

Really, the baseline stuff NEEDS to be fixed before people will start paying to play this game...
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#170 Feb 21 2011 at 6:53 PM Rating: Good
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*************************Quote below*******************************
I think they should be using player feedback to make new content more than rework old content. Current jobs are not unique enough? Make new jobs which are more unique. Gridania is ugly? Make a new forest zone which conforms to player feedback. I would rather have more to choose from than spend another six months having them pull crap apart and put it back together.

Yoshi hasn't done ANYTHING really - I mean, boosting SP was a good idea - but it doesn't really change anything. It doesn't give me content to do with my LS mates. If he has half the dev team working on pulling apart things that WORK already (instead of polishing them and making them work BETTER) then it will take twice as long for this game to be polished and twice as long for it to have fun content.

*************************Quote above**********************************


You're 100% right here. At this point, SE should be just dumping as much new stuff in as they can. Later on they can think about poilishing up the copy and paste. Adventurers will determine if something is successful, and those elements can be developed upon. More VARIETY IN EVERYTING SE. Come on.


To Olonus,
sorry to hear you are feeling down onn the game. Chin up Adventurer. Every adventure ends up through s#it at some point. But I get what you are feeling. My mission since launch was to obtain certain skills I wanted (Quickstride, Leg Sweep, Absorb). Crafting was to get all crafts to a guildmark level. I am now at that point, and have all (or at least most) of the best armour avalible to me. I am now kind of at a loss for what to do. If SE was kind enough to give more inventory slots (lol - I know we already have a lot - just a fat chocobo or something) I'd venture more to craft interesting stuff. As it stands right now, I have only enough inventory space to have collected all my rare components of interesting stuff :S It's just so hard to npc all that +3 junk i've collected. And noone really seems to know the value of any. Oh well - I'll just keep hanging onto it. But I'm beginning to wonder that SE didn't actually mean the fatigue system was intended for RL. I gotta say, I played a lot more than a normal human ever should have, and I never hit the prophosied wall. It seems now I have everything I need to start adventuring - and everything in Eorzea is at peace. ..

Hey - didnt that new SE chap I've been hearing about say something about things being too peaceful?!


Edited, Feb 21st 2011 9:43am by Olorinus [/quote]


Edited, Feb 21st 2011 8:10pm by WolfOak

Edited, Feb 21st 2011 8:13pm by WolfOak
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#171 Feb 21 2011 at 7:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well was'nt it something like 85% of players voted for drastic changes to the game? I play this game maybe 1-2 times a week for a couple of hours, but its just in the hope that this game gets fixed and becomes good. I think there are probably a lot of people like me around that dont play much but are desperatly hoping yoshi-p can salvage the game, and to be frank the games mechanics need fixed before content is added.

It really is terrible at the moment, i've been playing almost every type of game for over 20 years and im sorry but everything about this one just feels unfinished and/or wrong. While some people may be enjoying the game, the fact is 85% of SE's customers who bought the game are not. Content needs to be added desperatly but while the people who have stuck around for 6 months have learned how to use the clunky ui and battle system are beggining to enjoy themselves, most people who pick up the game wont be prepaired to play that long when there is plenty of other competition in the MMO market, because atm all that XIV has going for it is the graphics, and even then you'll need a pretty good pc to run it.

I had great hopes for this game before release, and like almost everyone was shocked at the state of it. The management change gave us all a lot of hope, but now i'm really starting to think this game is years away from being complete, and it really feels like no-one has a clear sense of direction as to where XIV is going and were just making it up as we go along. SE wont let XIV die thats for sure, but it's gonna need a miracle to be as good as people were expecting this time last year.

Edited, Feb 21st 2011 8:15pm by Eskeran
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#172 Feb 21 2011 at 7:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm actually really shocked to see that people are stating that they enjoy the game so much in it's current state... but yeah, each to their own. More power to you all :3

I'm actually very hopeful about what efforts Yoshi-P and team are making and the future of FFXIV. In it's current state, however... I simply can't play this game. It's like a Korean MMO... pretty but nothing to do. The community isn't there. I've been playing a certain BETA (won't name names) recently that has me flabbergasted about how FFXIV was released. It has:

An auction house
Mounts
In-game mailing system
Quests
Instances
Constant world events to break up the grind (I've not had grind even once!)
Highly customizable UI
Responsive community
Etc.

FFXIV had none of these things on release, much less BETA. It should never have been released, even as it is today. The developers should have been allowed more time to make this game truly epic.

Now, I understand that FFXIV will have it's own flavor and some people don't want all of the things listed above. In all honesty, I don't care what they do as long as they make the game FUN. In it's current state, the game is not playable by most standards (again, if you like it as it stands that's ok - what if it were BETTER? :3). FFXI was an amazing game but it just took too much time to play... I couldn't pick up the game for an hour and get anything meaningful done. Hence why I quit years ago (after getting 4 jobs to 75. It was painful /cry). However, it was still the best MMO I played because of the challenge it offered, the community that was there and the synergy of combat (SC + MB, not WS-spampage that it became).

WoW is(was) too easy (not so much with Cata, I hear) and the community BLOWS (I mean astoundingly horrible)
Aion was boring... too much of a grind and crafting was frustrating
Warhammer... good idea but not enough people to keep it alive
Age of Conan... meh

I would absolutely love if FFXIV became the hybrid of challenging and semi-casual friendly (and by all means reward those who play it like a second job - why not!?). I'm saddened by the fact that I simply cannot bring myself to play it, but am hopeful for what may come.

Yoshi-P and team, please keep working. I REALLY want to play FFXIV again. I will patiently wait months upon months for it to happen... just don't disappoint.
#173 Feb 21 2011 at 7:27 PM Rating: Decent
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
theSubligaravenger wrote:


you mention going back to FFXI or even WoW....if yoshi turns this game into a combination of the two? huh? honestly, if the servers went down tomorrow where would you go next? chances are a game that has the same features you are thinking about leaving this one for.


Well... if I wanted to play WoW or XI - I would play WoW or XI... that is what I am getting at. At this point I'm pretty sure I am going to go back to XI if I can get the payment worked out. Really too bad I can't use my crysta to pay for that. I'm going to desub my char however, and hold the crysta till this game gets better - or until I can pay for XI with crysta.


thats just it though...
FFXIV will NEVER be FFXI or WOW no matter how many features it borrows from either game. what happened to all the talk of this lore stuff i keep hearing about? while they update things like the UI, battle system, job system ans leveling structure they will also be expanding on the world itself.

They will finally be adding things to the game that will make it a real Final Fantasy game.

I think thats what most of us are sticking around for, even if we dont play.








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#174 Feb 21 2011 at 7:53 PM Rating: Default
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Kirby the Eccentric wrote:
LeilaniWildfire, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
What comes to the physical level being removed... go ahead, I never really saw what was the point of it anyway Smiley: rolleyes
It gave some players the opportunity to be a bit creative with how their character performs in battle.

Like my Archer. It has 100 STR, 100 DEX, 100 VIT, 79 MND and 79 PIE. Surely I would be doing more damage, evading more attacks, taking less damage and have more HP if I didn't bother to put points into MND and PIE.
I wanted my Archer to be able to successfully debuff mobs in small groups, and duos, seeing as the people I play with don't often play on Conjurer or Thaumaturge.
I also enjoy having a decent amount of magic defense and resistance, and being able to keep up my MP flow with Siphon MP (Piety being a major attribute).

I prefer flexibility and versatility when I play. Others may not. The point is, we were given a choice on how we play.
I hope SE implements Option #2 on this particular issue.[/
quote]

Yeah, people who only want to be the best at a very narrow range of things don't like physical level because they want to be the "best" on every job so they hate the skill point attribute cool downs. It is neither right nor wrong but I prefer to choose what I am going to be best at... and how I want to play my job


Well said. I agree very much so. That was a huge selling point for me. My husband is the type of person that is like "***** tanking let me swing a big ol' axe and smash some skulls!" Well, I'm a mage...and if he's not voking of taunting the mob, guess that leaves me, the mage to fend for myself. So I need to be able to not be as squishy. So I have to be thoughtful in how I spread out my PL points if I want to survive. And TBH, I like it that way. This game was pitched as something that could be flexible for somoene who is a casual gamer. Hard Core gamers could be hardcore, and someone like me wouldn't be left in the dust.

Olorinus the Vile wrote:
JanesAnsible wrote:
SE has no interest in retaining this small base when they have the opportunity to reach more subscribers by changing the game.


Let's be clear. I understand that if this game doesn't get more subscribers, it will go offline. Obviously, given the fact I like the game, I don't want that to happen.

So, now that we have that out of the way, let's get down to brass tacks.

SE needs as many customers as possible, period. They can't afford to sacrifice ANYONE who is playing at this point. They need to get people to pick up the game, and they need to keep the people playing, playing. Anyone who thinks it is a winning business strategy to drive off people who have invested their time and money into this game, is out of their mind. They need to keep people playing.

Yes, they need to bring more people in, but ******* around with things that work will not do that. Polishing the existing content/mechanics while developing new engaging, fun content will bring people in and keep them playing. An in-game casino, tetra-master, chocobo breeding, player-made companies, player/linkshell housing, new jobs, new areas, new equipment, new NMs... these things will get people playing.Anyone who thinks SE is going to keep this free-to-play for a year or more, is outta their mind. The fact is - if Yoshi-P keeps down this path, and keeps fiddling with what we have instead of giving us MORE... well the game is probably doomed.

I can see it now, they add in auto-attack, it breaks the combat system completely - people quit the game once and for all... and the servers go down.

Frankly if they can't even fix the basic crap we have, I don't have confidence in their ability to remake the whole game on a tight schedule unless they give up on content completely.


Exactly. Yes, there are some bugs that could be fixed as of now, however, what this game really lacks is depth and richness in content and story. To fiddle around with something that works, and that grabbed a lot of subscribers in the first place is not what needs to be tampered with. The PL works, the SP works...content...not so much :/ Iron out the bugs, and you'll maybe get some more subscribers, but you have to entice many with what could be "lurking" around the corner :) Give them a reason to want to play..."Damsel in distress! I'll save you!" "Kingdom under attack! Not on my watch!" "Oh a baby chocobo needs a Mom :)"...
Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
SE needs as many customers as possible, period. They can't afford to sacrifice ANYONE who is playing at this point. They need to get people to pick up the game, and they need to keep the people playing, playing. Anyone who thinks it is a winning business strategy to drive off people who have invested their time and money into this game, is out of their mind. They need to keep people playing.


That's where you are mistaken. Many of those who are playing at the moment are - sorry if this offends - resilient hardcore nerds and FF devotees who invested an unusual lot of their time in a sub-par game and now, naturally, don't want to lose the "advantage" they gained by grinding through a game system that the majority of potential customers considers unappealing. If SE wants to attract new customers, why should it stick to a system that is unappealing to all but a few? Btw, don't you think a significant and hard-to-catch-up advantage for the remaining players would turn off a lot of potential newcomers?


Yeah that is a bit offensive. Yes I've played a lot of final fantasy games...but that doesn't make me a hardcore FF devoted nerd. I enjoy TES series, I enjoy Baoynetta, I enjoy Atelier Rorona...and I could go on and on and on...however my passion is cooking. I can whip up a mean cassarole! Also, I <3 to crochet! And damnit they got rid of heros...sorry not all of us are devoted FF zombies...so please don't say such things. Many of us play because it has managed to capture something that we like about this game. That is all. And many of us hope it's gets better.

TheRealDestian wrote:
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Mithsavvy wrote:

SE really doesn't care if they ailienate the existing play base as long as the capture a larger one.


As long as they capture a larger one.

And this is why I am feeling less confident about the future of XIV. I don't think destroying what the game does well by watering it all down with a mish-mash of mechanics decided by poll will actually capture a larger player base.


I think the direction of the game is kind of a no-brainer.

Polls will give Yoshi-P an idea of what players think they want, but unless he's an idiot, he won't fall into the trap of letting the players shape the game entirely.

I think he has a pretty good idea of what he wants to change. Any player with two braincells to rub together can play this game and see where it needs to be improved.

[quote]This strategy has fail written all over it.


The game has already "failed". Had they left it pay to play for another month, it would've been dead already.

Yoshi-P could run the game into the ground and it still would be no worse than what had happened to it already.


Olorinus the Vile wrote:
theSubligaravenger wrote:


you mention going back to FFXI or even WoW....if yoshi turns this game into a combination of the two? huh? honestly, if the servers went down tomorrow where would you go next? chances are a game that has the same features you are thinking about leaving this one for.


Well... if I wanted to play WoW or XI - I would play WoW or XI... that is what I am getting at. At this point I'm pretty sure I am going to go back to XI if I can get the payment worked out. Really too bad I can't use my crysta to pay for that. I'm going to desub my char however, and hold the crysta till this game gets better - or until I can pay for XI with crysta.


I have never played WOW, so I can't say that...however if this starts turning into XI, you bet in a heartbeat I will quit. I Left XI so I could play something different. I do not feel like putting my flag up LFP for hours on end only to be disappointed that I can't play because {Refresh} {Can I have it?} {Please, forgive me.} {/logoff} Q_Q....no thank you.

As long as I can duo with my sweetie, have my character be as flexible as I need her to be so I can play something worthwhile, then I am cool...***** that up and I am outta here. I sympathize with the OP, very much so.

You can't put a crappy product out and expect it to sell, I get that. HOwever, if you bait and switch, you will lose valuable clients, who would most likely never return...I would rather deal with a crappy product and have it fixed correctly than deal with crooked company any day. I know, I have it happen already...


Edited, Feb 21st 2011 8:55pm by LillithaFenimore
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#175 Feb 21 2011 at 8:08 PM Rating: Decent
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All this crap cause patch 1.15b didnt have content? Jesus have a little patience, the game is f2p for that reason and ****, programming and fixing a game is not a quick and easy task. If your upset about the 20-60$ you spent on ff14 then your poor as **** and instead of posting here on zam maybe you should look for a job and if you updated your rig b4 trying the game thats your problem. Give Yoshi some time to do what he has planned, now that SE is communicating w/ their players you are bashing the **** out of them, just be patient.
#176 Feb 21 2011 at 8:35 PM Rating: Good
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Abhy wrote:
All this crap cause patch 1.15b didnt have content? Jesus have a little patience, the game is f2p for that reason and sh*t, programming and fixing a game is not a quick and easy task. If your upset about the 20-60$ you spent on ff14 then your poor as sh*t and instead of posting here on zam maybe you should look for a job and if you updated your rig b4 trying the game thats your problem. Give Yoshi some time to do what he has planned, now that SE is communicating w/ their players you are bashing the sh*t out of them, just be patient.


Um, try to read posts before responding, okay? And if that is too taxing for your little head, then perhaps you are better off not responding at all. I didn't mention patch 1.15b anywhere in my post(s), first of all. Second of all, I bought the CE and I bought $60 in crysta, and I built a new rig to play this game, however, I am not "upset" about that, either. I don't blame SE for my purchasing decisions, and I am happy to have a new computer (that I built myself). The fact that this game got me to build my own computer for the first time is probably the best thing to come of this whole debacle so far.

I am "upset" because I like this game, I would like to see it succeed, and I am not particularly confident that it will succeed and/or be improved. I could very likely be in the minority in some or all of these feelings, but they are what they are. Being in the minority doesn't make them less valid, nor does majority taste equal good taste.

I've been patient for about six months, I think I have every right to express my misgivings.

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#177 Feb 21 2011 at 8:46 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:

I am "upset" because I like this game, I would like to see it succeed, and I am not particularly confident that it will succeed and/or be improved. I could very likely be in the minority in some or all of these feelings, but they are what they are. Being in the minority doesn't make them less valid, nor does majority taste equal good taste.

I've been patient for about six months, I think I have every right to express my misgivings.



100% with you here ^^~

Sakaguchi Can i have it ? --->>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hironobu_Sakaguchi

FF Fanboy Bolt!!!
#179 Feb 21 2011 at 9:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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mannyfresher wrote:
First of all, I highly doubt the majority of people voting for changes don't play the game. That being said, if you want things to be the same as they are now battle wise, quest wise, class wise, you are definitely in the minority.

You say if they make these planned changes they're going to lose customers? I say if they keep things anything like they are now they're going to be losing a lot more.

Face it, the game is broken and these changes are a breathe of fresh air for people like me who are playing for future end game/future content. Which I think is what the majority of players are doing. Very few are actually playing because they whole heartedly enjoy it.

I know the only reason I am staying is because I like what I'm seeing in these letters. I think a lot of people can agree.


100% agree

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#180 Feb 21 2011 at 9:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Granted, adding content is something that has to be done. And preferably soon. However, there are LOTS of other issues to be dealt with as well. Yoshi-P is doing what he can to keep the Titanic from sinking. And, frankly, he's doing an amazing job. If anyone can save this game, its him.


OP is saying that he doesn't think that Yoshi-P is doing an amazing job, and you really said nothing to counter that. Except that you think he's doing an amazing job.

This whole thread exists because some people don't think he can save this game, and the concerns are not without any validity.

It makes me question how long some people here have been around. It's like we have these same topics we had last year, and back then any sign of negativity was met with rate downs and ridiculing. And you can see where it got us. Hating commens brought fanboy comments. Fanboy comments brought hating comments. It was a vicious cycle.

And now it's happening again. With less rate downs and trolls which is good, but the blind faith is still there, and it is not helping the game at all. If there is something wrong with Yoshida's plans and something can be done about it, we should not stay silent and simply take what's coming to us. The man has a lot of good changes coming, and a lot of questionable changes coming. And we need to question those questionable changes before it's too late to do so.

Edited, Feb 21st 2011 1:29pm by Hyanmen


While its true that he's saying he doesn't think Yoshi-P is doing a great job, his point was that he wants content. And he also doesn't want things that he enjoys about the game. While I completely understand where he's coming from, he's not likely to see a lot of new content soon. Nor is he likely to keep the things that he likes because most gamers don't like it. As I outlined in my original post, SE needs to actually sell things to make money. Having a game that most people won't buy, is not the way to do that.

Blind faith on my part? Hardly. Yoshi-P has outlined what SE's plan for the game is. If SE is able to do everything they said (which is all possible to do), then FFXIV is likely to improve dramatically. Given that Yoshi-P and SE want the game to do well, I think its likely that they'll at least attempt to follow through on this. This isn't faith in SE (which I have very little in these days); Its simply common sense that a company will attempt to fix its flagship product so that it makes money.

Will it happen? I don't know. Time will tell.
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#181 Feb 21 2011 at 9:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Abhy wrote:
All this crap cause patch 1.15b didnt have content? Jesus have a little patience, the game is f2p for that reason and sh*t, programming and fixing a game is not a quick and easy task. If your upset about the 20-60$ you spent on ff14 then your poor as sh*t and instead of posting here on zam maybe you should look for a job and if you updated your rig b4 trying the game thats your problem. Give Yoshi some time to do what he has planned, now that SE is communicating w/ their players you are bashing the sh*t out of them, just be patient.

First.. I have to kind of chuckle because it's sort of ironic that you'd say that to her (think it was her) considering they were once one of the people trying to find the positive in things and saying be patient from time to time.

Second.. I think some concerns are valid. I don't exactly agree with the OP and kind of feel the opposite about a lot of what was posted but the direction of the game is sort of up in the air now. It could be for the better or it could make it much worse. Hopefully things will become more clear soon. I see things differently than the OP but also have to wonder if they will attempt to be everything to everyone and end up ostracizing the people they have now as well as not even get/keep the new players they hope for.

Third.. I think I spent around $80 for the CE but it's not about the money. I've wasted far more money and gotten far less from some other things so it's not about that. IMO it has a lot more to do with companies thinking they can walk all over their loyalist customers. That it's OK to release a game that seems like it was released before anyone had even decided what direction it should go in. That the loyal fans will just suck it up so it's alright to treat them like foot stools.
#182 Feb 21 2011 at 10:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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I really don't want to see anything that invalidates the ranking up we've done to get other abilities, or the removal of cross-job abilities. Personally for me, it's one of the stand-out things about XIV. It actually forces everyone to accidently learn and understand the ins and outs of the other jobs in their party. sh*t there were people that played XI for 7 years that still had no idea what a Red Mage needed as far as cool-downs and MP management, or that the tank only had so many options to keep the hate off of that e-peen DPS dude in the party that only seemed to be concerned with putting up the highest numbers, etc.

I really don't see a need for auto-attack either. The new system is a refreshing change from the old auto-attack, throw out a few abilities, WS, grab a drink, repeat of XI.
To be perfectly honest, I don't spam 1111111 at my level, and I don't know too many jobs that do. Maybe in the not-so-distant past when everyone was soloing coblyns, but leves and NM's aren't really spam fests in my personal experience, you actually need to use a set of specific abilities, and manage your stamina. Are the fights in XIV strategy heavy yet? No, I'll agree with that, but neither is AA -> JA -> WS -> grab a drink.

I also don't want to see NPC's with neon MMOs for Dummies punctuation marks floating above their heads. It's not in tune with FF, and all the "the other mmos do it and it works" talk aside (and there ARE some things I agree could be emulated from other MMO's that are good solid concepts), this IS a FF mmo. NPCs don't have flags over their heads pointing you every step of the way in FF, part of the FF experience is discovery and following the clues along the current storyline. While admittedly XI was awful with the quest clues (to the point of bringing a whole new level to the word obtuse), this particular game (XIV) would look incredibly awkward with marked NPCs. We already have a journal that updates - complete with a map that shows the next location you should go to -and the guild linkpearls that help guide us. I've never been stuck on a quest and I've done multiple jobs and main storyline quests.

We need content, travel options (and as has been stated there's no need for anima and teleporting if we have real options. The "poof you're there" method should be reserved for returning to home points and specific jobs that can teleport people), and to get away from the nerf bat way of handling everything (see: "let's just arbitrarily cut the party member cap by 50%!")
Got lots else to say, but I already have to apologize for the wall o'text.


Edited, Feb 26th 2011 10:53am by Restyoneck
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#183 Feb 21 2011 at 10:11 PM Rating: Good
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Olo wrote:
I am "upset" because I like this game, I would like to see it succeed, and I am not particularly confident that it will succeed and/or be improved. I could very likely be in the minority in some or all of these feelings, but they are what they are. Being in the minority doesn't make them less valid, nor does majority taste equal good taste.


The irony here is that, were the game left in its current state (the state where you like it) it will die.

And no, the game is not fine. The framework is not perfect and ready for new content to be added. The game is currently a gigantic mess, both system-wise and challenge curve-wise.

The battle system is iffy at best. Just because people can level to 50 doesn't mean there's nothing wrong with it, especially when you have masochistic players out there willing to trudge through anything. It's a laggy system that sometimes misses button presses, lacks the twitch elements to make player reaction meaningful (other than heal, heal, heal), and has little to no strategy beyond "tank n' spank". There are tons of worthless skills that could be axed, battle regimens only work maybe half the time and there's no clear challenge gradient, where some mobs are hard to kill on blue and some reds can be soloed.

The stat point system is also horrendous. Reallocating stat points equates sitting there, clicking on the same arrow button 50 times, and if you ***** up, you can't go back: you need to start the whole thing over again. Then there's the fact that stat points are absolutely vital for maximizing your character's abilities, yet reallocating your points to effectively switch classes takes 5 hours to do in totality, completely defeating the alleged freedom of the armory system.

You can dislike the changes all you like, but the ironclad fact of the matter is that everyone playing the game right now is NOT enough to sustain it were it pay to play.

Either Yoshi-P makes changes to this game or it's going to die anyway.

Edited, Feb 22nd 2011 10:52am by TheRealDestian
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#184 Feb 21 2011 at 10:43 PM Rating: Default
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MrTalos wrote:
Abhy wrote:
All this crap cause patch 1.15b didnt have content? Jesus have a little patience, the game is f2p for that reason and sh*t, programming and fixing a game is not a quick and easy task. If your upset about the 20-60$ you spent on ff14 then your poor as sh*t and instead of posting here on zam maybe you should look for a job and if you updated your rig b4 trying the game thats your problem. Give Yoshi some time to do what he has planned, now that SE is communicating w/ their players you are bashing the sh*t out of them, just be patient.

First.. I have to kind of chuckle because it's sort of ironic that you'd say that to her (think it was her) considering they were once one of the people trying to find the positive in things and saying be patient from time to time.

Second.. I think some concerns are valid. I don't exactly agree with the OP and kind of feel the opposite about a lot of what was posted but the direction of the game is sort of up in the air now. It could be for the better or it could make it much worse. Hopefully things will become more clear soon. I see things differently than the OP but also have to wonder if they will attempt to be everything to everyone and end up ostracizing the people they have now as well as not even get/keep the new players they hope for.

Third.. I think I spent around $80 for the CE but it's not about the money. I've wasted far more money and gotten far less from some other things so it's not about that. IMO it has a lot more to do with companies thinking they can walk all over their loyalist customers. That it's OK to release a game that seems like it was released before anyone had even decided what direction it should go in. That the loyal fans will just suck it up so it's alright to treat them like foot stools.


lol my post was rather sarcastic, and it was not directed at the OP just ppl in general, patience is needed, this game wont be fixed in 2 weeks worth of work, almost every aspect of the game, UI, classes, battle etc needs to be completely revamped as the above poster said.
#185 Feb 21 2011 at 10:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've been following this thread from time to time since it was started and I think it encompasses the thoughts of the FFXIV community as a whole.

On one hand, you've got people enjoying the game as it is who don't really want to see any substantial changes. They just want SE to tweak a bit here and there and then focus on adding more. It should be abundantly apparent by now that that is not the solution.

Then you've got people who are enjoying certain aspects of the game who are open to rather substantial changes just to get a solid foundation in place upon which SE can add to as time goes on and hopefully make for a game that is entertaining across a variety of activities. That's probably the most realistic attitude to have.

And of course you've got those who think the game is utter garbage and feel that the only way to salvage it is to gut it and start over and while there may be some merit to that line of thinking, the bottom line is that there isn't nearly enough time to be make changes on such a universal scale.

FFXIV was not a niche MMO developed on a niche budget. It's a AAA title developed on a AAA budget and volunteering to have it remain as a niche within a niche isn't going to cut it. The niche that doesn't like icons over NPCs to denote said NPC has a quest for them might just need to buck up and deal with it, because the only thing less immersive than having icons over heads is to have to find your quest on a fansite database. I know, I know, 1 in 50 people actually liked running around in FFXI talking to every NPC every few levels/ranks/whatever to see if there were any new quests to be had, but let's just get real. Sites like ZAM had robust, frequently used quest databases for a reason.

So maybe Yoshi-P could get a little creative and instead of icons he could go for something like NPC animations. Like maybe they wave at you to try and get your attention. Something like that. And one thing MMO communities are notorious for is screaming about problems but not offering practical solutions or creating a general outcry over a concept as a whole without offering constructive alternatives that would produce a similar outcome only in a different way. Because I can tell you straight up that quests are an MMO staple and without them FFXIV will suffer. If word gets around that there are all these quests now in the game but you'd better be prepared to run around talking to every NPC you can find if you want to get these quests or have a quest database bookmarked in your browser of choice, people aren't going to come back.

Auto-attack. What a mess. I hope at least some of you realize by now that "just add auto-attack" isn't as simple as it sounds. The entire combat system would have to be reworked to account for that one "simple" change. If all SE did was add a mechanic to the combat system where you automatically attack your target with basic attacks if you are within range for your weapon type, the stamina system as it currently exists would be broken as ****. They'd have to completely rework the stamina system or remove it altogether and just have everything on a cooldown. Not to mention the critical thumping SE would get from people who suddenly realize that without triggering basic attacks manually, gameplay as a melee character has suddenly become another FFXI-style "hurry up and wait" kind of combat system. Worked for FFXI, won't work for FFXIV. People expect more. So in order to preserve the interactive style of combat, SE would have to add more abilities. What I think a lot of people who denounce "button mashing" (what a ridiculous term) don't realize is that the trend in MMO gaming is for more real-time, more interactive combat. Not less. And if SE is going to go in the opposite direction, they have to do something pretty spectacular with their game to justify it. Which they have not done. And which they don't have time to do.

Dramatic change isn't just necessary, it's inevitable. Right now it's just a question of whether or not the changes Yoshi-P makes will bring in more people than those who will leave as a result of those changes.

Edited, Feb 21st 2011 8:51pm by Aurelius
#186 Feb 21 2011 at 10:52 PM Rating: Good
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2,202 posts
Abhy wrote:
MrTalos wrote:
Abhy wrote:
All this crap cause patch 1.15b didnt have content? Jesus have a little patience, the game is f2p for that reason and sh*t, programming and fixing a game is not a quick and easy task. If your upset about the 20-60$ you spent on ff14 then your poor as sh*t and instead of posting here on zam maybe you should look for a job and if you updated your rig b4 trying the game thats your problem. Give Yoshi some time to do what he has planned, now that SE is communicating w/ their players you are bashing the sh*t out of them, just be patient.

First.. I have to kind of chuckle because it's sort of ironic that you'd say that to her (think it was her) considering they were once one of the people trying to find the positive in things and saying be patient from time to time.

Second.. I think some concerns are valid. I don't exactly agree with the OP and kind of feel the opposite about a lot of what was posted but the direction of the game is sort of up in the air now. It could be for the better or it could make it much worse. Hopefully things will become more clear soon. I see things differently than the OP but also have to wonder if they will attempt to be everything to everyone and end up ostracizing the people they have now as well as not even get/keep the new players they hope for.

Third.. I think I spent around $80 for the CE but it's not about the money. I've wasted far more money and gotten far less from some other things so it's not about that. IMO it has a lot more to do with companies thinking they can walk all over their loyalist customers. That it's OK to release a game that seems like it was released before anyone had even decided what direction it should go in. That the loyal fans will just suck it up so it's alright to treat them like foot stools.


lol my post was rather sarcastic, and it was not directed at the OP just ppl in general, patience is needed, this game wont be fixed in 2 weeks worth of work, almost every aspect of the game, UI, classes, battle etc needs to be completely revamped as the above poster said.


It's been half a year already......
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#187 Feb 21 2011 at 10:55 PM Rating: Good
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TheRealDestian wrote:
RufuSwho wrote:
I am "upset" because I like this game, I would like to see it succeed, and I am not particularly confident that it will succeed and/or be improved. I could very likely be in the minority in some or all of these feelings, but they are what they are. Being in the minority doesn't make them less valid, nor does majority taste equal good taste.


The irony here is that, were the game left in its current state (the state where you like it) it will die.

And no, the game is not fine. The framework is not perfect and ready for new content to be added. The game is currently a gigantic mess, both system-wise and challenge curve-wise.

The battle system is iffy at best. Just because people can level to 50 doesn't mean there's nothing wrong with it, especially when you have masochistic players out there willing to trudge through anything. It's a laggy system that sometimes misses button presses, lacks the twitch elements to make player reaction meaningful (other than heal, heal, heal), and has little to no strategy beyond "tank n' spank". There are tons of worthless skills that could be axed, battle regimens only work maybe half the time and there's no clear challenge gradient, where some mobs are hard to kill on blue and some reds can be soloed.

The stat point system is also horrendous. Reallocating stat points equates sitting there, clicking on the same arrow button 50 times, and if you ***** up, you can't go back: you need to start the whole thing over again. Then there's the fact that stat points are absolutely vital for maximizing your character's abilities, yet reallocating your points to effectively switch classes takes 5 hours to do in totality, completely defeating the alleged freedom of the armory system.

You can dislike the changes all you like, but the ironclad fact of the matter is that everyone playing the game right now is NOT enough to sustain it were it pay to play.

Either Yoshi-P makes changes to this game or it's going to die anyway.


Hey now, you quoted the wrong person here.
#188 Feb 21 2011 at 11:05 PM Rating: Default
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90 posts
Ostia wrote:
Abhy wrote:
MrTalos wrote:
Abhy wrote:
All this crap cause patch 1.15b didnt have content? Jesus have a little patience, the game is f2p for that reason and sh*t, programming and fixing a game is not a quick and easy task. If your upset about the 20-60$ you spent on ff14 then your poor as sh*t and instead of posting here on zam maybe you should look for a job and if you updated your rig b4 trying the game thats your problem. Give Yoshi some time to do what he has planned, now that SE is communicating w/ their players you are bashing the sh*t out of them, just be patient.

First.. I have to kind of chuckle because it's sort of ironic that you'd say that to her (think it was her) considering they were once one of the people trying to find the positive in things and saying be patient from time to time.

Second.. I think some concerns are valid. I don't exactly agree with the OP and kind of feel the opposite about a lot of what was posted but the direction of the game is sort of up in the air now. It could be for the better or it could make it much worse. Hopefully things will become more clear soon. I see things differently than the OP but also have to wonder if they will attempt to be everything to everyone and end up ostracizing the people they have now as well as not even get/keep the new players they hope for.

Third.. I think I spent around $80 for the CE but it's not about the money. I've wasted far more money and gotten far less from some other things so it's not about that. IMO it has a lot more to do with companies thinking they can walk all over their loyalist customers. That it's OK to release a game that seems like it was released before anyone had even decided what direction it should go in. That the loyal fans will just suck it up so it's alright to treat them like foot stools.


lol my post was rather sarcastic, and it was not directed at the OP just ppl in general, patience is needed, this game wont be fixed in 2 weeks worth of work, almost every aspect of the game, UI, classes, battle etc needs to be completely revamped as the above poster said.


It's been half a year already......


Since Yoshi took over? Mind showing me the those facts of when he took control over the game? And yah non-patience is why this game failed at release, Don't wanna rush quick fixes and make ppl happy for what a month?
#189 Feb 21 2011 at 11:06 PM Rating: Good
35 posts
Aurelius wrote:
So maybe Yoshi-P could get a little creative and instead of icons he could go for something like NPC animations. Like maybe they wave at you to try and get your attention. Something like that.


Oh no! I'd have to train myself to look at something other than the stamina bar? loljk...

Aurelius wrote:
What I think a lot of people who denounce "button mashing" (what a ridiculous term) don't realize is that the trend in MMO gaming is for more real-time, more interactive combat. Not less.


I'd be all for the button mashing IF... It involved something more interactive. Such as high/center/low normal attacks and defenses, and you had to adjust your attack and defense based on the MOB stance. That is just a very simple representation of what could be fun, it'd still have to be more intricate than that though. I'm not sure though how a battle system so involved would scale past the 100,000th kill. Might get a bit sick of being glued to the screen after you master the system.

Too bad you can't sniper headshot from 1000 yalms...
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#190 Feb 21 2011 at 11:07 PM Rating: Good
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291 posts
I stands all I can stands and I can't stands no more.

First - I feel similarly to Olo and she knows it. I'm not going to get into it, but I agree with OP.

Second
Quote:
The battle system is iffy at best. Just because people can level to 50 doesn't mean there's nothing wrong with it, especially when you have masochistic players out there willing to trudge through anything. It's a laggy system that sometimes misses button presses, lacks the twitch elements to make player reaction meaningful (other than heal, heal, heal), and has little to no strategy beyond "tank n' spank". There are tons of worthless skills that could be axed, battle regimens only work maybe half the time and there's no clear challenge gradient, where some mobs are hard to kill on blue and some reds can be soloed.


No one said anything about XIV was perfect. Not a single person in this thread didn't tack on the obligatory "everything needs work" so to say it's "iffy at best" doesn't really do much to contradict what anyone else said.

It is laggy and frustrating when button presses don't adequately happen on the screen - but this is kinda far and few between. I play a healer so I am (horrifically) aware when something I push doesn't actually happen and I admit even once is bad, but this is a problem that can (theoretically?) be fixed.

Strategy beyond tank & spank? How many strategies do you want in your grind? I mean, you can't be talking about Leves (which you can also solo) - and you COULD be talking about NMs but there's so few to really see any potential developments of strategy there. They're like end-game for babies. (BTW, I saw 3 THM defeat Dodore, so I guess that was Tank x3 and DOT-Spank? IDK. Looked strategic, although I don't really condone current "end-game" being solo-able, it was impressive to watch).

There are tons of skills that most players don't even begin to understand. Take for example Lancer's ability to regulate TP on NMs (if they weren't all obsessed with obscenely high damage instead of serving a practical function). The skills are diverse and situational. People deciding their job is meant to DPS rather than learning their potential is really the fault of "tons of skills" falling to the wayside.

Battle Regiment works every time. Period. I thought it didn't work at launch(?) and maybe they fixed it, or maybe I just didn't understand it. There's nothing iffy about it. If the members involved don't miss, the BRs always work. Obsessionally I've seen BRs glitch up and freeze without being able to initiate, but I've only seen this happen once and it was on a leve at Broken Water (aka Lag City; Horizon 3.0).

So what are you saying really? Most players don't bother to understand their roles and use a more defined strategy even though the game gives them the tools to do so? I dunno. That's pretty iffy statement.

The battle system needs work. It needs polish. It could use some shiny animations. It's far from completely broken, though, and it certainly didn't need a complete overhaul. It's not the greatest, but it is working.
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#191lostshroomie, Posted: Feb 21 2011 at 11:10 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) This game is fail till they redo the battle system lol.. I went back to XI! Alot of new content and fun stuff to do most of you should try it and stop ******** about this game. it sucks everyone knows wait 6 months till they fix it and come back!
#192lostshroomie, Posted: Feb 21 2011 at 11:13 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) This game is fail till they redo the battle system lol.. I went back to XI! Alot of new content and fun stuff to do most of you should try it and stop ******** about this game. it sucks everyone knows wait 6 months till they fix it and come back!
#193 Feb 22 2011 at 12:47 AM Rating: Good
35 posts
Aurelius wrote:

~snip~ the trend in MMO gaming is for more real-time, more interactive combat. Not less. And if SE is going to go in the opposite direction, they have to do something pretty spectacular with their game to justify it. Which they have not done. And which they don't have time to do.

I agree with you, but as an aside, I suspect most of the companies pursuing this more interactive combat also make an effort or at least have some intention to place server clusters at least on the same continent, if not within a couple thousand miles, of major concentrations of players.
I have doubts how well such a system would work in FFXIV, given the double whammy of insisting on keeping all game servers in Japan, and their apparent inability to code a functional and responsive UI.
#194 Feb 22 2011 at 12:55 AM Rating: Good
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123 posts
Kirutaru wrote:
Strategy beyond tank & spank? How many strategies do you want in your grind?



TBH having tank and spank as the only strategy is as bad as the grind and to me it means this game probably won't have any real PvP in it. My basic opinion is if the game isn't teaching you something new and making you learn something before the endgame, there's no point to it at all. To me that means simple strategies, or having only one option, makes things useless.

Role of the pre-endgame: making sure you know enough about the game to play the endgame.
Role of the endgame: make you use the things you've learned about the game; the sadboxier this part is, the better.

That's one thing I liked about GW:P, the pre-endgame had 4 pve missions that basically showed you what PvP strategies you'd need. Originally GW was designed as a PvP game with PvE added on top of it. So you had a mission for runners and dealing with runners. You had a go fetch mission. You had a defend the guild lord mission. You had a kill the GL mission. And you had a defend the fort mission at the end of THK, which was kinda hard for PvE back before all the expansions, now it's just an hour of pointlessness and boredom.

For FF14, I have to ask myself what is the endgame and what is the content I'm seeing now supposed to be teaching me about it or is it grind? If SE thinks a game is just a collection of features, there's nothing they can do for it; there's no real vision involved and nothing really to work towards. It's aimless. The game becomes completely pointless and as such there's no way it has a chance of really succeeding. Not in this environment.

I think this is what worries me about the ask the fans bit the most... SE is more focused on adding features instead of asking the fans the most important thing: what do you want out of FF14?
#195 Feb 22 2011 at 12:57 AM Rating: Good
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11,576 posts
KurisimasDay wrote:
Aurelius wrote:

~snip~ the trend in MMO gaming is for more real-time, more interactive combat. Not less. And if SE is going to go in the opposite direction, they have to do something pretty spectacular with their game to justify it. Which they have not done. And which they don't have time to do.

I agree with you, but as an aside, I suspect most of the companies pursuing this more interactive combat also make an effort or at least have some intention to place server clusters at least on the same continent, if not within a couple thousand miles, of major concentrations of players.
I have doubts how well such a system would work in FFXIV, given the double whammy of insisting on keeping all game servers in Japan, and their apparent inability to code a functional and responsive UI.


I agree, which is why I wouldn't expect SE to ever go the route of a true "action" MMORPG like Tera or DCUO unless they were also willing to set up servers local to the regions in which their game is played. I just think that if the goal is to attract more players to the game in order to make it financially viable so that the people currently playing it can still be playing it a year from now, SE needs to be moving forwards or at least maintaining the status quo, not moving backwards because the extreme end of the minority scale decides that's what they want to see.
#196 Feb 22 2011 at 1:26 AM Rating: Good
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3,416 posts
Quote:
Blind faith on my part? Hardly. Yoshi-P has outlined what SE's plan for the game is. If SE is able to do everything they said (which is all possible to do), then FFXIV is likely to improve dramatically.


But the point of this thread is that with the dramatic improvements come dramatic changes... that don't affect the status-quo whatsoever. They simply don't have the time to sidetrack and make changes to the game that aren't going to benefit it in the long run.

We can just keep shut and say "Yoshida works in mysterious ways, he has a plan for all of us" or we can question his choices and make him see the flaws and act accordingly. He is not perfect.

If his auto-attack plans come with other changes that make it logical to remove the push-to-attack system from the game, then good. Right now it does not look like it. If we vote for "spamming attacks" to be the greatest flaw of this combat system, and he goes and takes all the involvement out of it as the result.. it's not going to end up well. He has to have some kind of point to this change.

Is he just going to remove push-the-attack and leave the system as-is, making us play MSN Fantasy XIV? Is he going to remove push-the-attack and make it so we'll use abilities much more frequently than currently (which results in us spamming once again)? Is he going to do something about the positioning and direction having a great role in the combat, making up for the lack of spamming attacks with that kind of mobile involvement? Before we know these things, we should question his choices.

Edited, Feb 22nd 2011 10:32am by Hyanmen
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SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#197 Feb 22 2011 at 1:27 AM Rating: Good
40 posts
mannyfresher wrote:
First of all, I highly doubt the majority of people voting for changes don't play the game. That being said, if you want things to be the same as they are now battle wise, quest wise, class wise, you are definitely in the minority.

You say if they make these planned changes they're going to lose customers? I say if they keep things anything like they are now they're going to be losing a lot more.

Face it, the game is broken and these changes are a breathe of fresh air for people like me who are playing for future end game/future content. Which I think is what the majority of players are doing. Very few are actually playing because they whole heartedly enjoy it.

I know the only reason I am staying is because I like what I'm seeing in these letters. I think a lot of people can agree.



Agreed, and well said. Rate up

I myself was baffled at this forum. Yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but stating, "half the voters dont play the game," and "SE is going to lose all of its loyal players", makes you sound idiotic, and takes away all of your credibility in this post. Not sure where you are coming up with these assumptions, but I can assure you, you are in the minority. The best way to fix something is to give the people what they want. Up until now, we have not been given anything, not informed about changes, or included in how things are changed. This is why the player base is complete and utter ****. Excuse my French. I am pretty optomistic, and love the game as well as you, but definately know it can, and needs to be improved, even things aside from content. (I do not want to do a bunch of easy and repeatable quests with more jobs and a bunch of button mashing, no thankyou. As of now I would say it is more forming to WoW), what the game NEEDS is what the people voted for, changes to battlesystems, etc. This would make the game much more enticing and challenging.

As of now, there is nothing challenging about this MMO. Tedious, maybe. But once you just grind to a certain level, everything is easy. Adding more content will just make it the same way. The battle systems and such need to be changed to fix these issues before they add new content.

If you are that upset about the direction the game is moving, then quit or take a break from the game. If you do not want to play it, then don't. You are welcome to give your word but don't preach and act as if you are speaking for half the community base.

Overall it seems your main issue is that changing these aspects of the game will "lose the current player." What you forget to include is that this game has virtually no player base. You cannot mess up something that is already low to begin with. Why would you expect them to move in the same direction and keep the same things in the game that led players to stray away to begin with? Yoshi P. is doing a great job thus far, and has alot on his plate. Give the guy a break and wait to see what he can come up with before criticizing him. Giving the players what they want and fixing these changes is the only hope that this game has. I for one know plenty of people who are already starting to come back because they are given feedback, and their votes are being used. Keep up the good work Yoshi!
#198 Feb 22 2011 at 1:44 AM Rating: Good
40 posts
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
RufuSwho wrote:
Press button = something happens. This is a must.


Yeah, this is what I am talking about when I say they are wasting dev time pulling things (that work) apart that would be better used polishing what works.

Whether you like the current battle system or want auto-attack or whatever - there is no question that it works. It needs polish, yes, but it works. You can disagree with me on that but since people have gotten to rank 50 in their battle classes using it - IT WORKS. It isn't broken.

Again, just for emphasis - YOU not liking it doesn't make it broken.

Could it be better? Yes, it could be. But could a new system also be worse? Yep, most emphatically.




Your statement is incorrect. It is broken... That is what you are failing to see. Just because people HAVE hit 50, does not mean that it is not a horrible system. You can disagree, but most of the player base agrees that the terrible action bar and button mashing is not working.

"a new system also be worse?"- yes, it could. Anything SE adds into the game could be worse. But chances are it won't be. And if it is, they take the feedback given from the players, which is what they are doing and work to perfect that system.

You act as if they are polishing well worked systems. NO. They are redesigning horribly worked systems. If for one, you like the current systems, then that is unfortunate, but ultimately it will help the game as a whole, as they will be pleasing more players.

Adding more content into a broken system is not going to make the game better, but only make the problems more apparent, and add more **** that people DONT want to do. Grinding in this game is terrible. Yes grinding in any game is bad, but it is especially bad when it requires no focus on your part, and is painfully simple.

And by the way, adding in huge vocabulary to your posts in no way makes you seem more convinving, how about think about what you have to post before you do so, because your responses in this whole forum are not very well thought out.
#199 Feb 22 2011 at 1:47 AM Rating: Good
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9,526 posts
simbaseraph wrote:

And by the way, adding in huge vocabulary to your posts in no way makes you seem more convinving, how about think about what you have to post before you do so, because your responses in this whole forum are not very well thought out.


I wasn't trying to be convinving but I will take your advice into consideration.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#200 Feb 22 2011 at 1:48 AM Rating: Good
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3,416 posts
Quote:
"a new system also be worse?"- yes, it could. Anything SE adds into the game could be worse. But chances are it won't be. And if it is, they take the feedback given from the players, which is what they are doing and work to perfect that system.


Then, I ask- why are they making a new system instead of taking the feedback given from the players and perfect the existing system (which is not beyond any hope, the opposite really)? It's so counterproductive it's not even funny.
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Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#201 Feb 22 2011 at 1:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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16,959 posts
simbaseraph wrote:
I myself was baffled at this forum. Yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but stating, "half the voters dont play the game," and "SE is going to lose all of its loyal players", makes you sound idiotic, and takes away all of your credibility in this post.
Hmm, really... And then you turn around and say this directly afterward:
simbaseraph wrote:
Not sure where you are coming up with these assumptions, but I can assure you, you are in the minority.
Is this based off the poll? If so, I guess your conclusion would make sense.
Note though, that at least a third of the posts in this thread are people agreeing with the OP, or having doubts with the direction that the game is taking.

Edited, Feb 22nd 2011 12:49am by Kirby
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