Forum Settings
       
This Forum is Read Only

Feeling less confident about the future of XIVFollow

#402 Feb 23 2011 at 3:59 PM Rating: Excellent
A simple timeline to consider:

-January 21st - 1st Letter From the Producer with 1st Players' Poll results.
* Battle, Combat, and Overhaul to Fundamental Gameplay Aspects were voted top priority.
I believe that significant changes to the battle system are necessary to create a style of combat that lends itself to the enjoyment of quests and miniquests. Following that logic one step further, it is equally necessary to bring about significant changes to the user interface to create a UI that lends itself to the enjoyment of the battle system.

* Story based quests/Mini-quests voted what players want implemented first.
The issue that players would first like to see addressed is a general lack of game content, followed by changes to the battle system. Looking further, it seems that the type of content most strongly desired is quests and miniquests, accounting for about 40% of the responses.

In line with the above results, we will be bringing quests and miniquests to Eorzea sometime after the beginning of February. Along with this, all of the changes being worked on during the end of last year and the beginning of this year to improve the games playability and user-friendliness will also be released around the same time.


* 85% of players polled voted in favor of change that would drastically alter the rules already set in Eorzea
This is something that will be in the forefront of my mind when making decisions concerning future updates to the game.

What I gather from this is that they acknowledge that players want more content worked on first. However, the players desire to overhaul the battle system is also being taken into account. They seem to want to have the changes to the battle system in place first, so as to lend themselves to the upcoming quests/side quests/etc. Keep in mind this letter from Yoshi-P was released just a hair over 1 month ago. Sweeping changes of the magnitude SE knows the players want simply cannot occur in a months time.

We've seen some nice improvements to the SP system, and more incentive to engage in party play. This seems to be the groundwork for further battle changes they have planned.

- February 1st: 2nd Letter from the Producer
* Bigger outline of current/planned/future tasks
My next post will be dealing specifically with the battle system, and I am planning to conduct another players’ poll on the subject. I would very like much to hear all of your opinions again.

- February 2nd: 1.15a goes live

- February 17th: 1.15b goes live as well as the 3rd Letter from the Producer and 2nd Players' Poll.
* Observations on 1.15a
Patch 1.15a went live with all of the intended content (resulting in a bit of behest-induced fever on some forums, hehe), and the dev team is now on the next step in improving the game.

Of course, we're still on the fence a bit about balancing the degree of difficulty for fifteen-member parties, but I personally am of the opinion that everyone playing together is what makes the game fun. And so that is the direction in which I would like to take the game, and take it as quickly as possible. It was for that reason that I opted to balance the skill and experience points rewards first, with the intention of later tackling the difficulty level, rather than vice versa.

Therefore, in the coming days we'll be looking into further improvements to bonuses awarded when participating in groups of nine or more. For now, I'd be happy to think that we've already taken care of some balancing issues that relate directly to future content.

* New/Updated game improvement schedule
We've also completed our examination of the balancing and placement of freely roaming enemies, and are in the midst of holding meetings now to begin implementing the planned changes. Also, the routes players take when traveling through areas must also be adjusted so as not to have a negative influence on quest balance. All told, we'll be making changes of this sort up until the onset of spring.

We are also in the process of putting together a new workflow to handle the development of new quests and sidequests. Though we will begin releasing these in the next patch, it will be difficult to release a large number of them at once

The tasks laid out for the overhaul of the battle system are being divided up and divvied out, and the office is a maelstrom as we try to settle upon the final specs for the system itself.


Hopefully, we'll be able to get all of our ducks in a row, hammer out an engaging battle system, and bring a slew of new and exciting challenges to all of you soon!


Again, it looks as if their primary focus is on the battle system and getting it prepared for future content, which is simultaneously being worked on. These two things being what the players have voiced as being most important.

Today is the last day for the Battle System poll. They will, of course, review the feedback, hold meetings, make plans etc etc and adjust the game accordingly. This will not happen overnight. Again, it sounds like they really want their new battle system in place for the majority of the upcoming content.

The game is in dire need of change. The current popularity of the game is enough to make this plainly obvious. These changes will not please everyone (as the saying goes...) Yoshida is trying to steer the game in the direction that will make it a larger over-all success, and more of a fun, Final Fantasy experience. Again, a little over a month has passed from his first letter.

Keep giving SE your feedback, guys. We've got the Feedback Forum here on ZAM for that, and there's also a direct feedback option to voice your opinions to SE.


Edited, Feb 23rd 2011 2:02pm by Osarion
#403 Feb 23 2011 at 4:01 PM Rating: Good
**
291 posts
Quote:
XIV's failure has nothing to do with "being mainstream". It has all to do with releasing the game too early. FF13 was hardly a failure.


I agree it has to do with releasing too early. I said so myself.

I think there are a lot of factors why the game wasn't finished, though, and one of them is that instead of trying to appeal to who they knew it would appeal to (FF fans, XI players) they tried to capture a wider audience. They boasted things that they didn't deliver on. They attempted to make a game that could compete with WoW (despite denying it was their intention) and honestly should have known better that a game released in the state XIV was in wouldn't even compete with a finished product like XI.

Maybe I'm making it too complicated. I agree, the #1 problem is that it was an unfinished game.

I also didn't mean FF13 was a financial failure. I mean it was a failure of a game. People bought it, sure - because it looks awesome. Then you play it and it's a giant ****.

Oh well. We can strike my "mainstream" post from the record, but I do feel that SE trying to reach a wider audience is only shooting them in the foot and alienating people who truly enjoy(ed) their (J)RPG games.
____________________________
Battle Mage Kiru
#404 Feb 23 2011 at 4:04 PM Rating: Excellent
***
2,202 posts
Kirutaru wrote:
Quote:
The current player base is irrelevant in the grand schemes of things,


If this is true (and you don't know it is) then this is what upsets us! You're talking about me! You're saying SE doesn't care about me. I've played ever FF since I was 7 years old. I imported 3 & 5! I majored in Japanese! Holy Christ - if I don't matter, what have I been doing the last 30 years?!

Anyway joking/drama aside, SE certainly making me feel like they don't care about me. People who actually like their game are being used to test new ideas rather than SE giving us a pat on the back and telling us "don't worry. We'll take care of our faithful."

Trust me. I know SE don't care about me, anymore. They made that clear with FF13.

I still see this as a flaw in their plan. As was said "Final Fantasy" is a niche and the harder they strive to make it more mainstream the harder they fail. Can we all agree that FF13 and FF14 as "mainstream" attempts are failures? They're just ******* off their fans as they try desperately to gain new (larger group) of fans.

This is what we don't like (as fans).


Quote:
if SE does not get another player and only stay's with what they have right now, the game is dead, is that simple, the people playing now, have no say in the future of this game, because right now, the game has no future, no hope, nothing, IS DEAD!!!!


You don't know this. There's no proof. Even if it is true, though, maybe if they stopped squandering resources making pieces of crap and started making Final Fantasy games that are true to their roots - they would gain "another player" meaning all the niche players they ****** off who went back to play XI.

There's many ways to gain players. Don't pretend there's only one.

-----

Aside: Ostia I'm rating up most of your posts, though. I feel like you need a high-five for actually having posts that are well thought out and not telling me how many people are subscribed to WoW. :)

Rinsui, too, is refreshing to see write in paragraphs rather than 1-2 lines of sarcasm (Though I usually laugh at the 1-2 lines of sarcasm). It's nice to see you guys actually voice real opinions - even when we don't exactly agree.

Edited, Feb 23rd 2011 4:46pm by Kirutaru


Hey! I feel you, i own every FF that has come to the state's(YES EVEN MYSTIC ******* QUEST!) i have been a loyal customer to Squaresoft for many years, but SE! Does not care's, this game at release was proof enough, they had months of feedback and beta testing, of the game's glaring faults and bugs, and they said: Whatever our fan base is loyal, they will buy this game, even if it does not even installs" and we did, and now you guys endure and endure and you get shoved aside for it :)

Teach them a lesson :) Organize, make a post that the player base will not play this broken game, for a week if SE does not get their head out of their ***, i mean for the most part you guys just loathe wow players, but you can learn from them, when they dont like something or where something is going, they *****, and when that does not work, they cancel their subscription, and what does blizzard do ? Oh they reach out and we all agree on a middle ground, does not work always, but hey, unlike blizzard SE cant lose anybody :P
____________________________
MUTED
#405 Feb 23 2011 at 4:05 PM Rating: Decent
***
3,416 posts
Quote:
Again, a little over a month has passed from his first letter.


We shouldn't be looking at the first letter, we should be looking at the date the last Tanaka-patch was implemented (mid-December). It's been almost 2 and a half months since then. They should be well into implementing most of these features by now. We already know what Tanaka got done in a 2 months timeframe, and Yoshida is currently lagging behind. March patch needs to pick up the pace considerably.

Quote:
I mean it was a failure of a game. People bought it, sure - because it looks awesome. Then you play it and it's a giant ****.


Every FF game can be considered "a failure of a game". They ride on their story (aimed at teens), graphics, characters and music. XIII is no different. Many liked it, many hated it. In this case it's as subjective as it gets. The game's metacritic score is 85. That does not translate to "a giant ****". And as we can see from XIV the media is not afraid to trash a Final Fantasy game if it deserves it. Your perception does not translate to it being some objective truth we should all agree to. It's the opposite, really. It's a good game that didn't meet the extremely high standards and received a respectable score and sales while dividing the fanbase (just like XII and to some part XI did). It's not a sign of a failure in any meaning of the word.

Edited, Feb 24th 2011 1:10am by Hyanmen
____________________________
SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#406 Feb 23 2011 at 4:09 PM Rating: Good
***
2,202 posts
TheFirst109 wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Verecund wrote:
TheFirst109 wrote:
Ostia wrote:
So i just came back from winning Tol Barad in an epic back and forth for 25 minutes, what have you guys been doing ? Still killing coblyns and dodos 6 months after release ? Or are you guys crafting gear to kill the mobs you just killed w/o crafted gear ? My my some of you guy's have the patience of Saints!





Out of all the things to do in WoW to make FFXIV look bad, you come in with your Tol Barad victory? Really? Talk about a waste of time...

What did you get like 180 honor for winning that fight? And it took you 25 mins to do so? Fail so hard.


The obvious point you failed to notice was that it was fun, entertaining, and felt replayable.


Touche


Besides kicking the alliance ***, lets see, i got 300 honor, and killed argaloth, yeah totally fail.

But then again considering what i could be doing in FFXIV...... Nah there is nothing to do in FFXIV XD!


Meh, some people still find doing guild leves or behests fun. That doesn't mean either is right or wrong one way or another which is fun or not.

You chose to blatantly bash FFXIV for something you see as repititious and extremely boring, and while im inclined to agree with you about that fact, the event in WoW you chose to highlight as your fun experience is notorious for having been one of the worst implementations of PvP in any game ever, and it only took them over 6 years to still fail at creating that scenario (even after having practice with Wintergrasp). They still haven't successfully balanced Tol Barad fully, one would think they would just stop trying to create an open zone pvp area.

WoW has much more to offer than the boring and horribly implemented TB, which is why I was wondering why you would ever choose that. You could have at least highlighted the fact that the instances they've come out with in this xpac are some of the best.


They have actually balanced tol barad a whole lot more, like i said it was a back and forth, not a one sided thing like at release, either way, the point was to point out, that even the most broken thing in WOW(PVP IMO) is 100x more fun than anything in this game, and is true, as for if blizzard learned of not, no they have not, and they probably will not ever XD!
____________________________
MUTED
#407 Feb 23 2011 at 4:13 PM Rating: Decent
**
435 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
I am only against sweeping changes that do not benefit the game at all.


Then write Yoshi-P a letter and stop spamming up the forums over nothing.

There's really nothing else to be said here.

Edited, Feb 23rd 2011 5:17pm by TheRealDestian
____________________________

#408 Feb 23 2011 at 4:15 PM Rating: Good
**
291 posts
I get what you're illustrating, Osarion.
And I know with any change some people will be unhappy.

I think the point some of us are making The point I'm trying to illustrate is if 50% of that "85%" are people playing Rift and they say (to Yoshida) I want this game to have battle system similar to Rift because they really nailed it. Yoshida then goes, "I see. Many of our potential customers prefer a Rift battle system. I'll work on it."

A Rift-like Battle System is slapped into a game that wasn't initially designed for it. People come back. They are like "Yes! Battle is great." (Too bad everything else is now broken!) "But honestly, I like Rift's system so much, I'll just go play Rift instead."

50% of that 85% still fail to come back and be paying customers. The other 50% didn't want Rift battle system. They just wanted the game's battle system to be turned into something that worked better/faster & more like Tanaka said it would be in his pre-game hype website.

Now that 50% is stuck with a system they don't like. They leave to go play XI.

XIV dies.

^ How is this not a relevant fear?

I think this scenario is just as likely as "new battle system" = HUGE SUCCESS.
FFXIV goes on to live a thriving life of 20 years and has multiple babies with XI.

It's all just speculation - and it has two sides. Some people just seem obstinately insist that one side is right and the other side has no merit.
____________________________
Battle Mage Kiru
#409 Feb 23 2011 at 4:15 PM Rating: Good
*****
16,959 posts
TheRealDestian wrote:
[quote=Hyanmen]I am only against sweeping changes that do not benefit the game at all./quote]

Then write Yoshi-P a letter he can ignore and stop spamming up the forums over nothing.

There's really nothing else to be said here.
If you really want to spam it up, there's always my journal.

Edited, Feb 23rd 2011 3:15pm by Kirby
____________________________
MyAnimeList FFXIV Krystal Spoonless
#410 Feb 23 2011 at 4:18 PM Rating: Decent
***
3,416 posts
Quote:
Do NOT question my GOD.

There's really nothing else to be said here.


"Over nothing" indeed. I mean, yes, why should we strive to make the game better. That's only rude to Yoshi-P who has a vision.

Let's have patience and see what he can do and believe in him as he has a greater plan.

Ugh, was that a deja vu? It almost felt like I went back in time to read the beta threads talking about Tanaka. ****.
____________________________
SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#411 Feb 23 2011 at 4:18 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
36 posts
Hyanmen wrote:


We shouldn't be looking at the first letter, we should be looking at the date the last Tanaka-patch was implemented (mid-December). It's been almost 2 and a half months since then. They should be well into implementing most of these features by now. We already know what Tanaka got done in a 2 months timeframe, and Yoshida is currently lagging behind. March patch needs to pick up the pace considerably.

Edited, Feb 24th 2011 1:10am by Hyanmen


The problem with this statement is this. Tanaka had 4+ years of development, 3/4 Months of Beta, and 4 Months after launch. Yoshi-P has BARELY had 2 months. How can you possible compare and contrast what the two directors accomplished with the amount of time they were given?

Not to mention that with a new director comes a new vision. Currently they are re-thinking the whole system. That means they have to go back and re-imagine EVERYTHING the previous Dev Team was working on.
#412 Feb 23 2011 at 4:19 PM Rating: Good
**
291 posts
Quote:
The game's metacritic score is 85.


LOL Really? I stand corrected then.

I honestly would have believed it to be 50 or less.

This is what people do when they're wrong and someone proves it to them. Rare on the internet I know.
____________________________
Battle Mage Kiru
#413 Feb 23 2011 at 4:21 PM Rating: Good
**
435 posts
Kirutaru wrote:
I get what you're illustrating, Osarion.
And I know with any change some people will be unhappy.

I think the point some of us are making The point I'm trying to illustrate is if 50% of that "85%" are people playing Rift and they say (to Yoshida) I want this game to have battle system similar to Rift because they really nailed it. Yoshida then goes, "I see. Many of our potential customers prefer a Rift battle system. I'll work on it."

A Rift-like Battle System is slapped into a game that wasn't initially designed for it. People come back. They are like "Yes! Battle is great." (Too bad everything else is now broken!) "But honestly, I like Rift's system so much, I'll just go play Rift instead."

50% of that 85% still fail to come back and be paying customers. The other 50% didn't want Rift battle system. They just wanted the game's battle system to be turned into something that worked better/faster & more like Tanaka said it would be in his pre-game hype website.

Now that 50% is stuck with a system they don't like. They leave to go play XI.

XIV dies.

^ How is this not a relevant fear?

I think this scenario is just as likely as "new battle system" = HUGE SUCCESS.
FFXIV goes on to live a thriving life of 20 years and has multiple babies with XI.

It's all just speculation - and it has two sides. Some people just seem obstinately insist that one side is right and the other side has no merit.


And then there are those of us who don't feel that Yoshida has the IQ of a grapefruit and wouldn't make stupid mistakes like that.

What exactly do you hope to accomplish through kvetching on the forum like this? He's not reading this forum so you're basically just spinning your wheels for the sake of spinning your wheels.

Why do you persist in doing this?
____________________________

#414 Feb 23 2011 at 4:22 PM Rating: Excellent
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Again, a little over a month has passed from his first letter.


We shouldn't be looking at the first letter, we should be looking at the date the last Tanaka-patch was implemented (mid-December). It's been almost 2 and a half months since then. They should be well into implementing most of these features by now. We already know what Tanaka got done in a 2 months timeframe, and Yoshida is currently lagging behind. March patch needs to pick up the pace considerably.


The last major patch was released 21 days ago. We should be looking at the previous regime's last patch, why, exactly?

Yoshida has already stated that the announced set of changes by Tanaka are not being scrapped per se, but are being individually reviewed while they work on their new priorities. A good number of those changes have already been implemented, anyway. Furthermore, many of those changes are currently being worked on by Yoshida.

Either way... new management, new priorities, new tasks. Forget Tanaka, he doesn't run the show anymore.
#415 Feb 23 2011 at 4:23 PM Rating: Good
***
3,416 posts
Quote:
The problem with this statement is this. Tanaka had 4+ years of development, 3/4 Months of Beta, and 4 Months after launch. Yoshi-P has BARELY had 2 months. How can you possible compare and contrast what the two directors accomplished with the amount of time they were given?

Not to mention that with a new director comes a new vision. Currently they are re-thinking the whole system. That means they have to go back and re-imagine EVERYTHING the previous Dev Team was working on.


Honestly? I care about the results. So far the man has not delivered. Tanaka had 2 months after the release to release the November patch. Yoshida had 1½ months after he was given the lead to release the 1.15a patch, and half a month to release the 1.15b patch. Unfair or not he needs to do better than he has done. Only the results matter, nobody cares whether this is so unfair to him or not. That's not an excuse to people waiting.

Quote:
The last major patch was released 21 days ago. We should be looking at the previous regime's last patch, why, exactly?


Because that determines whether the new regime is doing a good or bad job. Everything Yoshida does should be compared to Tanaka, so we'll see whether the change in management was beneficial for this game or not. Maybe Yoshida's new development structure catches up to Tanaka's later if he managed to optimize the development process. Maybe it doesn't. I sure hope for his sake that it does. Doesn't mean he should get a free pass though.

Edited, Feb 24th 2011 1:26am by Hyanmen
____________________________
SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#416 Feb 23 2011 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
**
435 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
"Over nothing" indeed. I mean, yes, why should we strive to make the game better. That's only rude to Yoshi-P who has a vision.

Let's have patience and see what he can do and believe in him as he has a greater plan.

Ugh, was that a deja vu? It almost felt like I went back in time to read the beta threads talking about Tanaka. ****.


Yeah, because ******* and moaning on a forum he doesn't read gets so much accomplished.

This is like watching a guy cut himself over and over again, screaming "DO YOU SEE THIS, YOSHIDA!?! DO YOU SEE WHAT YOU'RE DOING TO ME!!?!?"

Yeesh...

Edited, Feb 23rd 2011 5:25pm by TheRealDestian
____________________________

#417 Feb 23 2011 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
Sage
***
1,675 posts
Kirutaru wrote:
Quote:
The game's metacritic score is 85.


LOL Really? I stand corrected then.

I honestly would have believed it to be 50 or less.

This is what people do when they're wrong and someone proves it to them. Rare on the internet I know.



Every time I see that Metacritc score for FFXIII I'm blown away.

(It's actually 82 on Xbox and 6.7 User Score, so I take some solace in that)
#418 Feb 23 2011 at 4:28 PM Rating: Good
***
3,416 posts
Quote:
Yeah, because ******* and moaning on a forum he doesn't read gets so much accomplished.


It has been quite constructive so far really, and frankly, I don't do this to convince him but to convince the community that he is no God people claim him to be. He is a guy with his own strengths and weaknesses, and just because they differ from Tanaka's doesn't mean they don't exist. His strengths will make the game better, and we can help him in overcoming his weaknesses. Only you are against this, who knows why honestly.

Quote:
(It's actually 82 on Xbox and 6.7 User Score, so I take some solace in that)


Honestly, it's the fan reaction. DA2 seemed good to me (I'm not really a fan of the series or anything) but the fans are ripping the game a new one and complaining about pointless things. It's the way things work. The more established the franchise, the more fanatic the fans will be over any changes.

Edited, Feb 24th 2011 1:29am by Hyanmen
____________________________
SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#419 Feb 23 2011 at 4:31 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
36 posts
Well you are welcome to your opinion, but that is all it is. There was a reason why Tanaka was taken off the project and it was because of the game he delivered over the course of the ENTIRE project, not the 2 months he had after the game was released. Players were complaining about the battle-system since he has come on board. He knew he had to change it, which he has. And the reason he had to do it first is because it wouldn't make sense to create content for a battle system that wouldn't be the same in a month's time.
#420 Feb 23 2011 at 4:31 PM Rating: Decent
**
435 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
IIt has been quite constructive so far really, and frankly, I don't do this to convince him but to convince the community that he is no God people claim him to be. He is a guy with his own strengths and weaknesses, and just because they differ from Tanaka's doesn't mean they don't exist. His strengths will make the game better, and we can help him in overcoming his weaknesses. Only you are against this, who knows why honestly.


I'm against it because you took:

"I like the changes he's making and I think he'll do a better job than Tanaka."

Into...

"YOSHI-P IS THE ALMIGHTY GOD! THOSE WHO DO NOT WORSHIP HIM ARE INFIDELS!!!!"
____________________________

#421 Feb 23 2011 at 4:33 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
119 posts
Hyanmen wrote:

How many times have I pointed out that I am not against sweeping changes to the game, I am only against sweeping changes that do not benefit the game at all. 4th time, 5th time I say this? I want them to use their limited resources to the best of their ability (whether that has to do with sweeping changes or small changes), this does not suddenly translate to killing the game. How dare I.


Considering Yoshida hasn't posted anything that wouldn't benefit the game or refocus the vision of a FF game series I don't think we have anything to worry about.

Quote:
Instead of changing class names they could be fleshing out the existing classes even further- that sure does sound like a plan to kill this game indeed!


This is already being worked on. >.>

-Changes to actions for Disciplines of War & Magic classes
-Further changes to enhance class uniqueness

#422 Feb 23 2011 at 4:39 PM Rating: Decent
***
3,416 posts
Quote:
I'm against it because you took:

"I like the changes he's making and I think he'll do a better job than Tanaka."

Into...

"YOSHI-P IS THE ALMIGHTY GOD! THOSE WHO DO NOT WORSHIP HIM ARE INFIDELS!!!!"


Read between the lines. I haven't said anything unreasonable yet you keep defending him without question, and the more the discussion progresses the more sensitive you get about the subject. "So you are against all sweeping changes?? So you just want to nitpick??? Why do you hate him??" and such.

You can think he'll do a better job than Tanaka, but nothing so far points that way. He does good things and he does less good things. Pointing out the less good things doesn't make me a criminal, and does not warrant your behaviour. You have a problem with me pointing out the flaws? Defend them or deal with it. "You shouldn't mess with Yoshida's vision" as the excuse is as worshipping as it gets. Not good enough.

Quote:
This is already being worked on. >.>

-Changes to actions for Disciplines of War & Magic classes
-Further changes to enhance class uniqueness


Notice the words "even further". The time it takes to change class names could be used to make even more changes to enhance class uniqueness. If they focused all of their efforts on the right thing there would be no problem, but they aren't.


Edited, Feb 24th 2011 1:42am by Hyanmen
____________________________
SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#423 Feb 23 2011 at 5:09 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
119 posts
Quote:
Notice the words "even further". The time it takes to change class names could be used to make even more changes to enhance class uniqueness. If they focused all of their efforts on the right thing there would be no problem, but they aren't.


This is why they have different teams working on these things? Even further means they are currently working on it and more will come. Even further does not mean wasting efforts on something else.
#424 Feb 23 2011 at 7:04 PM Rating: Decent
**
435 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
Read between the lines. I haven't said anything unreasonable yet you keep defending him without question, and the more the discussion progresses the more sensitive you get about the subject. "So you are against all sweeping changes?? So you just want to nitpick??? Why do you hate him??" and such.


Read between the lines: me saying that I think Yoshida will do a better job doesn't automatically mean he's infallible. He could still bungle this royally, but I think he's doing fine so far.

Quote:
You can think he'll do a better job than Tanaka, but nothing so far points that way.


The fact that he wasn't the jackass who shipped the game like this dramatically improves his chances.

Beyond that, Osarion pointed out a massive list of what he's doing and it all looks fine to me. He's been working on the game for two months and you're already whining that he's not doing enough.

Does that mean the game is saved? Of course not, but at least he's going to try.

Edited, Feb 23rd 2011 8:07pm by TheRealDestian
____________________________

#425 Feb 23 2011 at 7:33 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,576 posts
Kirutaru wrote:
Quote:
He's also at the helm of a sinking ship where his best bet to succeed is to fall back on proven concepts. Gambling on innovation is something a developer can afford to do pre-launch. SE did just that. We know the outcome. Now is not the time to be gambling. Now is the time to be fixing. You can deny all you like.


How is this entire blurb not your personal opinion?

Here let me write the same blurb with my point of view. We can disagree, but it's just opinions. There's no fact or evidence of fact in anything you're saying. Here I go.

"He's also at the helm of a sinking ship where his best bet to succeed is to take everything that makes the game unique and interesting and get them up to "finished product" standards. Gambling on changing entire systems is something a developer can afford to do pre-launch. SE didn't bother to do that. Instead they gambled on releasing an unfinished game they planned to finish while we paid for it and we know the outcome. Now is not the time to be gambling. Now is the time to be fixing. You can deny all you like."

We can all disagree about what they "should" do. That's fine. I don't disagree with your right to think they should do [what you think will be better]. I just don't understand how you're all passing it off as facts that it will succeed or that it would be any better than just making the game a finished product (as intended).

The game failed because it was not finished. It didn't fail because the battle is unappealing or there isn't an Auction House. It failed because the battle didn't really work well due to UI & latency (plus it wasn't what they promised it would be) and the Retainer system didn't provide any method of selling or buying items without hours upon hours of searching. If it had functioned as well as an Auction House there would have been considerably less complaining (like there is now - and it's still not quite there yet). It didn't fail because it was "too different." It failed because different wasn't functional.


When you've been around the genre for a while and have played games where the developers actually engage in frank discussion with their players around why they do what they do, you start to recognize the difference between good systems that were poorly implemented and bad systems that were...implemented. Well or poorly. Doesn't matter. XIV is full of bad systems. It's full of bad ideas. It's full of Tanaka's overbearing social engineering projects for people who apparently can't make friends on their own and need to be shoved into social situations around gameplay that is so dull you NEED people to chat with or you lose your ******* mind.

FFXIV didn't fail because it was "too different." It failed because it was different, and the differences were bad. Streamline the UI. Put in an AH. Eliminate the client crashes. People still won't come back in sufficient numbers to keep the game afloat.
#426 Feb 23 2011 at 7:48 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
46 posts
Aurelius wrote:
FFXIV didn't fail because it was "too different." It failed because it was different, and the differences were bad. Streamline the UI. Put in an AH. Eliminate the client crashes. People still won't come back in sufficient numbers to keep the game afloat.


There'll probably be enough playing to keep the game barely afloat, but they won't be speaking any English (^-^*)
#427 Feb 23 2011 at 7:52 PM Rating: Good
***
2,202 posts
Verecund wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
FFXIV didn't fail because it was "too different." It failed because it was different, and the differences were bad. Streamline the UI. Put in an AH. Eliminate the client crashes. People still won't come back in sufficient numbers to keep the game afloat.


There'll probably be enough playing to keep the game barely afloat, but they won't be speaking any English (^-^*)


No there is not, FFXIV does not even has 100K players AND ITS FREE!

This game dint cost 5 million to produce <.< It costed around 25million w/o the cost of the crystal tools added to that :) And it dint sold the 800K that they initially shipped, War/Aion/AOC sold a million or more boxes on release, and well we all know how great they are doing <.<
____________________________
MUTED
#428 Feb 23 2011 at 7:59 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
46 posts
I'll admit it was more satire than fact...
#429 Feb 23 2011 at 8:20 PM Rating: Good
**
429 posts
Ostia wrote:
This game dint cost 5 million to produce <.< It costed around 25million w/o the cost of the crystal tools added to that :) And it dint sold the 800K that they initially shipped, War/Aion/AOC sold a million or more boxes on release, and well we all know how great they are doing <.<


FYI Aion is the world's 2nd largest subscription based MMO.
#430 Feb 23 2011 at 9:02 PM Rating: Excellent
***
2,202 posts
Wolfums wrote:
Ostia wrote:
This game dint cost 5 million to produce <.< It costed around 25million w/o the cost of the crystal tools added to that :) And it dint sold the 800K that they initially shipped, War/Aion/AOC sold a million or more boxes on release, and well we all know how great they are doing <.<


FYI Aion is the world's 2nd largest subscription based MMO.

FYI Aion counts box sales not currently active accounts so if they lost lets say a mil, they still count 3mil instead of 2 :) Or to put it in FFXIV perspective SE claims they have 600K players, when in reality they dont have 100k even lol
____________________________
MUTED
#431 Feb 23 2011 at 9:16 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
597 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
The problem with this statement is this. Tanaka had 4+ years of development, 3/4 Months of Beta, and 4 Months after launch. Yoshi-P has BARELY had 2 months. How can you possible compare and contrast what the two directors accomplished with the amount of time they were given?

Not to mention that with a new director comes a new vision. Currently they are re-thinking the whole system. That means they have to go back and re-imagine EVERYTHING the previous Dev Team was working on.


Honestly? I care about the results. So far the man has not delivered. Tanaka had 2 months after the release to release the November patch. Yoshida had 1½ months after he was given the lead to release the 1.15a patch, and half a month to release the 1.15b patch. Unfair or not he needs to do better than he has done. Only the results matter, nobody cares whether this is so unfair to him or not. That's not an excuse to people waiting.

Quote:
The last major patch was released 21 days ago. We should be looking at the previous regime's last patch, why, exactly?


Because that determines whether the new regime is doing a good or bad job. Everything Yoshida does should be compared to Tanaka, so we'll see whether the change in management was beneficial for this game or not. Maybe Yoshida's new development structure catches up to Tanaka's later if he managed to optimize the development process. Maybe it doesn't. I sure hope for his sake that it does. Doesn't mean he should get a free pass though.

Edited, Feb 24th 2011 1:26am by Hyanmen


The difficulty in the comparison--at least, from my perspective--is that you're comparing the former head honcho, who was already well established and likely had his plan set for several months, to the new guy, and the additional staff that he brought on board with him, who have to settle into their new positions, go over the last guy's plan to see what can be salvaged and what can be scrapped (i.e. what they're doing right now), and then have him work together with his new staff to formulate a plan of their own. Additionally, the transition started during the Christmas season, so I'd imagine that most of the staff was on holiday during that time, and wouldn't be back and ready to tackle the project until the new year.

Also, maybe I'm just naive of how large projects are run, but I would imagine that switching all of the team and project leads in the middle of a development cycle is going to translate to **** getting done at a reduced rate. Perhaps someone more familiar with software development could chime in on this?
____________________________
WoW - Andorhal
Darkkiwi - 85 Gnome Unholy Death Knight - <Flaming Bunnies>
Lightkiwi - 72 Gnome Disc Priest - <Flaming Bunnies>
Kwanita - 82 Gnome Frost Mage - <Flaming Bunnies>
Maglyn - 81 Gnome Protection Warrior - <Flaming Bunnies>


Don't play that game anymore. :P
#432 Feb 23 2011 at 9:37 PM Rating: Excellent
*
53 posts
I do share some of the concerns with the OP and have no idea what to expect from what the devs might bring. At this point, I will just prepare, and do my best through my poll, and see how it goes. If it sux (future patches), at least I enjoyed what I did on here, and leave this future WoW/XI clone in the dust, to other things.
____________________________


#433 Feb 23 2011 at 9:48 PM Rating: Decent
**
435 posts
Quanta wrote:
Also, maybe I'm just naive of how large projects are run, but I would imagine that switching all of the team and project leads in the middle of a development cycle is going to translate to sh*t getting done at a reduced rate. Perhaps someone more familiar with software development could chime in on this?


Yes.

Given how difficult software development can be, the fact that he even has a solid plan he's following in two months time is absolutely amazing.

Plus, it sounds like he's creeping up on revamping the battle system fairly soon, but we'll see how that turns out.
____________________________

#434 Feb 23 2011 at 10:07 PM Rating: Decent
3 posts
You need to start reading the players warning before you log in, and chill the **** out.

Totally hate feeding you, but your post seems like a woe is me, console me, I need attention so I can justify staying sort of BS that often litters the intertubes. Go see a psychologist, that's what you really need.


And crap people, FFXI was heavily instanced. FFXI had a lot of instanced situations before WoW was released. Stop whining and crying about instanced content, it has it's place and is an important part of any successful MMO at this point. FFXI was good about having a nice mix of instanced and open world content, why can't you just assume that we can have both instead of crying mommy?
#435 Feb 23 2011 at 10:59 PM Rating: Excellent
**
465 posts
I'm feeling less confident about XIV, but it's less about what I'm seeing as planned as much as what the game currently is. Doing NMs tonight again, it's just not close to how fun these sort of fights were in XI. Battle Regimens aren't fun to me.. It's slow to respond, and really gets monotonous. It looks like they just had someone spend an afternoon figuring how to display the BR stack, and they came up with this bare-bones look.

I could go on about how targetting is a problem, or how there's nothing I can do about missing attacks (this I would hope is taken care of as they give meaning to stats in the future), but it all just doesn't feel right to me. I do want to see how Yoshi and Co. end up implementing the changes they've listed, but I do not see myself playing this game long term.. And I'm someone who has logged in pretty much every day since launch.
____________________________
Lodestone
#436 Feb 23 2011 at 11:01 PM Rating: Good
**
291 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
We shouldn't be looking at the first letter, we should be looking at the date the last Tanaka-patch was implemented (mid-December). It's been almost 2 and a half months since then. They should be well into implementing most of these features by now. We already know what Tanaka got done in a 2 months timeframe, and Yoshida is currently lagging behind. March patch needs to pick up the pace considerably.


I've been contemplating this same thing. Seems like we were making more progress in November/December with the 3 updates we got then.
____________________________

#437 Feb 24 2011 at 1:19 AM Rating: Decent
NayliaMR wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
We shouldn't be looking at the first letter, we should be looking at the date the last Tanaka-patch was implemented (mid-December). It's been almost 2 and a half months since then. They should be well into implementing most of these features by now. We already know what Tanaka got done in a 2 months timeframe, and Yoshida is currently lagging behind. March patch needs to pick up the pace considerably.


I've been contemplating this same thing. Seems like we were making more progress in November/December with the 3 updates we got then.


Yoshida and his team are currently working on every apsect of the game. Unlike the previous dev team, they wont release unfinished or unpolished crap. They have PLANS at the very least and are letting us know exactly what those plans are.

Tanaka had years of dev time to grab those nov/dec updates from when he needed them, Yoshida started with a mess that takana called a game. so if you ask me Yoshida is miles ahead.
____________________________

Does hating a game I wanted to love make me a troll?
or does trying to love a game I hate make me a white knight?
#438 Feb 24 2011 at 1:29 AM Rating: Excellent
****
9,526 posts
Coyohma wrote:
I'm feeling less confident about XIV, but it's less about what I'm seeing as planned as much as what the game currently is. Doing NMs tonight again, it's just not close to how fun these sort of fights were in XI.


Restarted XI today. Had a party... and you know what, even with the auto attack (and the fact I didn't even engage since I was rdm in dunes) and even though it was pretty much as low as content gets (first day back) I felt more engaged and challenged in party than I have the whole time I've played XIV. There are a lot of things that XIV actually does better than XI - I think less mp micro-management is a plus, for example - but when it comes to players working together, XI does it better.

I also felt like part of something, got a mog tablet (good luck!) and then needed to run it to Jeuno. In a way it was tedious, but I felt like I was part of a story again, and though travel is a pain in the ****, I think the nearly infinite warping has caused almost as many problems as it has solved.

Also the skill animations are way better.

Anyway, yeah, I think anyone who is concerned about the future of this game has a right to be. They really ****** it royally, and I don't think it was made better by shaking up the development teams. We will see, and I will definately give the game a chance once they do some more patches - but right now it is looking grim.
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#439 Feb 24 2011 at 1:38 AM Rating: Good
***
3,416 posts
Quote:
The difficulty in the comparison--at least, from my perspective--is that you're comparing the former head honcho, who was already well established and likely had his plan set for several months, to the new guy, and the additional staff that he brought on board with him, who have to settle into their new positions, go over the last guy's plan to see what can be salvaged and what can be scrapped (i.e. what they're doing right now), and then have him work together with his new staff to formulate a plan of their own.


Yes, I can see why he would have a harder time.

No, that's not a good excuse. Results matter, and nobody, especially the potential playerbase, is going to care why things are taking more time than they should. The fact is that they are, and that's what matters. Yoshida has an uphill battle to prove himself and the new team but I do hope none of you thought he wouldn't.

Quote:
Yoshida and his team are currently working on every apsect of the game. Unlike the previous dev team, they wont release unfinished or unpolished crap. They have PLANS at the very least and are letting us know exactly what those plans are.


Eh, dunno about you, but both Nov. and Dec. patches seemed quite polished to me. Very few bugs and such. And lol, we knew about the old team's plans back in October for the next 6 months (while the new team only lists updates for maybe 3 months timeframe), so stop acting like they didn't have them. And those plans were all sensible and would have all benefited the game, there was nothing useless or pointless in there. While Yoshida is changing the class names.

It doesn't matter whether Tanaka failed with the pre-launch. All that matters is the recovery process, and so far Yoshida hasn't been any better at it.

Quote:
but when it comes to players working together, XI does it better.


It's called encounter difficulty, and yes, XIV is too easy.

Edited, Feb 24th 2011 10:40am by Hyanmen
____________________________
SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#440 Feb 24 2011 at 3:04 AM Rating: Decent
2 posts
I find it delightful that people believe that any of these changes are going to bring in anyone new...

...when the game doesn't even provide a free trial.
#441 Feb 24 2011 at 3:07 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
2,153 posts
Shh. Whatever the case, Yoshida chose to face a serious challenge.
In a way, I think he will have to risk ******* off the remaining
playerbase to some extent. For a successful relaunch on the PS3
- which requires the impetus and fanfare of many new and old players
joining at once and sweeping/surprising changes to warrant a
re-evaluation by the media - he needs to feed the current playerbase
just enough grain and water to let them (barely) survive.

If he really released everything he has as soon as it's finished,
there will be no "wow! look at this!" effect, if you get what I mean.
A simple "the game has somewhat improved steadily" is not enough
to draw the attention of the masses.

****, even the currently active playerbase is already on its way
to forget how much, e.g,. the UI and the market wards have already
improved from their original shape. The buzz an innovation creates
has a very short half-life (no pun intended). Naturally, since the
in-*nov*-ation part becomes the new standard (*nov = new).

Realistically, the best thing he can do now is to abuse the current
playerbase to test a lot of the "technical" improvements (like the
battle system, UI changes, SP adjustments, party size etc.), and
save up enough story content (which doesn't require extensive testing)
to build a big, loud surprise for the relaunch.

If I understand his desperate gamble right, I would be very, very
surprised if the long-expected miracle content patch arrived any sooner.
#442 Feb 24 2011 at 3:37 AM Rating: Good
****
9,526 posts
Vigtyr wrote:
I find it delightful that people believe that any of these changes are going to bring in anyone new...

...when the game doesn't even provide a free trial.


Why would they provide a "free trial" to a game that they don't believe they can justify charging a subscription for? Why the **** would they offer a free trial to a product that has already alienated the majority of people who have tried it?

When they are ready to charge subs - then they will probably have a free trial. The point of a free trial is to get someone into a game, not to scare them away from it.
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#443 Feb 24 2011 at 3:43 AM Rating: Good
***
3,416 posts
Quote:
If I understand his desperate gamble right, I would be very, very
surprised if the long-expected miracle content patch arrived any sooner.


The moment he laid out his development plan it became apparent that there would be no such thing. You don't make miracles in a month's worth of development.

Not that I mind him doing it this way. It keeps me entertained to see the game evolve constantly, at least.

Edited, Feb 24th 2011 12:44pm by Hyanmen
____________________________
SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#444 Feb 24 2011 at 5:13 AM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
**
597 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
The difficulty in the comparison--at least, from my perspective--is that you're comparing the former head honcho, who was already well established and likely had his plan set for several months, to the new guy, and the additional staff that he brought on board with him, who have to settle into their new positions, go over the last guy's plan to see what can be salvaged and what can be scrapped (i.e. what they're doing right now), and then have him work together with his new staff to formulate a plan of their own.


Yes, I can see why he would have a harder time.

No, that's not a good excuse. Results matter, and nobody, especially the potential playerbase, is going to care why things are taking more time than they should. The fact is that they are, and that's what matters. Yoshida has an uphill battle to prove himself and the new team but I do hope none of you thought he wouldn't.


Certainly. If he doesn't do something quick, people are going to leave, and/or upper management is going to kill the project. I think March is going to be the month that matters most, seeing as that's when Tanaka had originally planned the next big update to the game, and it'll have given Yoshida a decent amount of time to settle in and get something done. We'll have a better idea in a couple of weeks.
____________________________
WoW - Andorhal
Darkkiwi - 85 Gnome Unholy Death Knight - <Flaming Bunnies>
Lightkiwi - 72 Gnome Disc Priest - <Flaming Bunnies>
Kwanita - 82 Gnome Frost Mage - <Flaming Bunnies>
Maglyn - 81 Gnome Protection Warrior - <Flaming Bunnies>


Don't play that game anymore. :P
#445 Feb 24 2011 at 5:14 AM Rating: Decent
**
291 posts
Quote:
When you've been around the genre for a while and have played games where the developers actually engage in frank discussion with their players around why they do what they do, you start to recognize the difference between good systems that were poorly implemented and bad systems that were...implemented. Well or poorly. Doesn't matter. XIV is full of bad systems. It's full of bad ideas. It's full of Tanaka's overbearing social engineering projects for people who apparently can't make friends on their own and need to be shoved into social situations around gameplay that is so dull you NEED people to chat with or you lose your @#%^ing mind.

FFXIV didn't fail because it was "too different." It failed because it was different, and the differences were bad. Streamline the UI. Put in an AH. Eliminate the client crashes. People still won't come back in sufficient numbers to keep the game afloat.


So what you're saying is ... you play games? So you're an expert on games?

I play games, too. Are we going to whip out our epeen right here? Over this?

You're making speculations based on your "experiences" playing games. So am I.
Yours isn't better than mine arbitrarily.
Don't have to play high & mighty know it all.

Just admit (as you have) slapping in a new battle system and an Auction House (even if they could whip them up in 6 months time) isn't any more likely to "save" FFXIV then if they just call it a day and try to make it appeal to their "niche" FF fan(boy)s or whomever and hope it pays for server costs.

Don't just say "they can't afford a niche game" like you're their accountant.
You don't know what they can afford. Obviously they can "afford" to keep the game free for 6 months or more. They're clearly willing to take some loss. You don't know how much. You can't tell me (unless you're their accountant) they will just shut the game off if they can't get 1mil subscripts on their NGE attempts. Maybe they can live with 100k or 200k (assuming they can lure back their loyal fans, if they stop ******* in their faces). You just don't know.

They're just two sides of a coin. They are both risks.
They both have a good chance of ending in disaster.

How many successful MMOs have you built? How many have you brought back from the bring of disaster? How many have you successfully marketed?

As for me, the answer is none. I just know what I want from a game and like to think I know what makes a [niche] game popular, but apparently FF13 got a 85 on Metacritic so I'm starting to think maybe I should just hang up my hat. I do still know what I want from a game, however. I just wonder if games I want to play are still going to be made anymore. They are getting father and fewer between.

Edited, Feb 24th 2011 6:21am by Kirutaru
____________________________
Battle Mage Kiru
#446 Feb 24 2011 at 5:51 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
597 posts
Kirutaru wrote:
Quote:
When you've been around the genre for a while and have played games where the developers actually engage in frank discussion with their players around why they do what they do, you start to recognize the difference between good systems that were poorly implemented and bad systems that were...implemented. Well or poorly. Doesn't matter. XIV is full of bad systems. It's full of bad ideas. It's full of Tanaka's overbearing social engineering projects for people who apparently can't make friends on their own and need to be shoved into social situations around gameplay that is so dull you NEED people to chat with or you lose your @#%^ing mind.

FFXIV didn't fail because it was "too different." It failed because it was different, and the differences were bad. Streamline the UI. Put in an AH. Eliminate the client crashes. People still won't come back in sufficient numbers to keep the game afloat.


So what you're saying is ... you play games? So you're an expert on games?

I play games, too. Are we going to whip out our epeen right here? Over this?

You're making speculations based on your "experiences" playing games. So am I.
Yours isn't better than mine arbitrarily.
Don't have to play high & mighty know it all.


What he's saying is that, thanks to developers communicating directly with their players and explaining what they do and why, it's given him a greater insight into the development process. He is then able to take that insight and apply it to the development of other projects. However, that doesn't factor in whether he reads trade publications like Gamasutra or Game Developer, or books on game design, or whether or not he follows what comes out of places like GDC, which would also add to his knowledge pool if he stops thinking like a gamer for 5 seconds and focuses on the development aspect.
____________________________
WoW - Andorhal
Darkkiwi - 85 Gnome Unholy Death Knight - <Flaming Bunnies>
Lightkiwi - 72 Gnome Disc Priest - <Flaming Bunnies>
Kwanita - 82 Gnome Frost Mage - <Flaming Bunnies>
Maglyn - 81 Gnome Protection Warrior - <Flaming Bunnies>


Don't play that game anymore. :P
#447 Feb 24 2011 at 7:12 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
119 posts
Quote:
Don't just say "they can't afford a niche game" like you're their accountant.
You don't know what they can afford. Obviously they can "afford" to keep the game free for 6 months or more. They're clearly willing to take some loss. You don't know how much. You can't tell me (unless you're their accountant) they will just shut the game off if they can't get 1mil subscripts on their NGE attempts. Maybe they can live with 100k or 200k (assuming they can lure back their loyal fans, if they stop ******* in their faces). You just don't know.


Assume 150 jobs over 5-6 years each getting paid a salary of 80-100k. Perform a cost analysis. Find initial sales figures. What was their ROI at release? Likely negative. All of this doesn't even approach costing at an operations level (Energy, Building maint, all that other stuff you usually don't think about). Now assume you use 200k subscriptions at the expected 13$+3(+1 char). With some gross estimation the return will take approximately 10-12 years(higher with operations costing) to finally see a return on worst case with 100k fanatics/subscribers. However considering your bleeding out subscribers constantly some how I get this odd feeling they cannot afford a niche game lest they have some extremely patient shareholders...

    Short version

If they can double the subscription by making changes they will be in a much better position to seeing a positive ROI years earlier.

Edited, Feb 24th 2011 8:12am by MippsCat

Edited, Feb 24th 2011 8:29am by MippsCat
#448 Feb 24 2011 at 7:20 AM Rating: Decent
6 posts
While we're on the topic metascores, here's FFXIV's

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/final-fantasy-xiv-online

would love to see this game come out on top, but we know it won't. Sadly, I don't think any amount of content patches or updates will bring it out of that. SE built a foundation for FFXIV, the same foundation that the PS3 version will be built on. I'm calling it right now, the PS3 release will not have a metascore higher than 65-70...and that's being generous.

First impressions, please. They mean everything. Teenager Johnny becomes interested in MMOs because he got a new computer. He checks out some reviews and researches current gen MMOs and he'll see FFXIV on the bottom of the list with all the flak its received since launch.
#449 Feb 24 2011 at 9:23 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
597 posts
Kirutaru wrote:
I also didn't mean FF13 was a financial failure. I mean it was a failure of a game. People bought it, sure - because it looks awesome. Then you play it and it's a giant ****.


What was wrong with FF13? I mean, I know that it's linear as all **** and certainly not the best game in the series, but it's not a particularly bad game.
____________________________
WoW - Andorhal
Darkkiwi - 85 Gnome Unholy Death Knight - <Flaming Bunnies>
Lightkiwi - 72 Gnome Disc Priest - <Flaming Bunnies>
Kwanita - 82 Gnome Frost Mage - <Flaming Bunnies>
Maglyn - 81 Gnome Protection Warrior - <Flaming Bunnies>


Don't play that game anymore. :P
#450 Feb 24 2011 at 10:20 AM Rating: Decent
**
435 posts
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Restarted XI today. Had a party... and you know what, even with the auto attack (and the fact I didn't even engage since I was rdm in dunes) and even though it was pretty much as low as content gets (first day back) I felt more engaged and challenged in party than I have the whole time I've played XIV. There are a lot of things that XIV actually does better than XI - I think less mp micro-management is a plus, for example - but when it comes to players working together, XI does it better.

I also felt like part of something, got a mog tablet (good luck!) and then needed to run it to Jeuno. In a way it was tedious, but I felt like I was part of a story again, and though travel is a pain in the ****, I think the nearly infinite warping has caused almost as many problems as it has solved.

Also the skill animations are way better.

Anyway, yeah, I think anyone who is concerned about the future of this game has a right to be. They really @#%^ed it royally, and I don't think it was made better by shaking up the development teams. We will see, and I will definately give the game a chance once they do some more patches - but right now it is looking grim.


I agree: FFXIV feels like half a game right now. The combat is generally unenjoyable, a lot of the world is copy-pasted and the player progression system is dodgy at best (I do like the crafting system, though. I think giving the game an entire crafting subculture was the one thing they did right).

But if you feel the future is grim, why then oppose ANY changes? The game is in a pretty sad state at present, hence why sweeping changes can only come as a good thing in my mind. Even if they somehow made the game worse than what it was when it launched, they haven't doomed it to any worse a fate than if it hadn't been changed at all.

Vigtyr wrote:
I find it delightful that people believe that any of these changes are going to bring in anyone new...

...when the game doesn't even provide a free trial.


The game itself is a free trial, and SE is just trying to bring back the people who bought the game and then stopped playing before they try for more beyond that.
____________________________

#451 Feb 24 2011 at 10:56 AM Rating: Decent
***
2,202 posts
Quanta wrote:
Kirutaru wrote:
I also didn't mean FF13 was a financial failure. I mean it was a failure of a game. People bought it, sure - because it looks awesome. Then you play it and it's a giant ****.


What was wrong with FF13? I mean, I know that it's linear as all **** and certainly not the best game in the series, but it's not a particularly bad game.


IMO the worst FF ****** to date, linear as ****, boring, uninmersive(sp), while the combat system was really fast paced, there was no real need for a strategy(Until you got to the planet) the characters where horrible(Except the negro, he was the saving grace of the game) the difficulty spikes where horrible, you went from owning everything with auto attack, to WTF i died in 3 seconds <.<

Sure it sold, but i would like to see a report of how many people returned the game XD! i know i did and i own every single FF ****** (EVEN MYSTIC GOD DAMMED QUEST!)
____________________________
MUTED
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 20 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (20)