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Party SP ChartFollow

#1 Feb 20 2011 at 9:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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This guy is my hero. Actual SP testing and results in a easy to read table.

Kaeko wrote:
I have a table that I would still consider a work in progress, but is for the most part complete that maps out the reduction of SP for each party size and # of members in range -10/+5.


Party SP Table
Party SP


Kaeko wrote:
In the situation described earlier where someone mentioned having a group of 8 all in range, then adding a 9th in range, you should see roughly a 10-11% drop-off (from 65% to 58%, where 58/65~=89% of previous).

If you're interested in seeing how SP is actually calculated more precisely in game, here is my data collection and results:

Part I
http://kanican.livejournal.com/51730.html

Part II
http://kanican.livejournal.com/52445.html

Hope this helps.


Hats off sir. I hope you don't mind me putting this in its own thread so everyone can find it!

Edited, Feb 20th 2011 10:30pm by RufuSwho
#2 Feb 20 2011 at 9:52 PM Rating: Good
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This is amazingly well put together. I like the information in the links also.

/bookmark
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#3Rankin657, Posted: Feb 20 2011 at 9:55 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) A very nice chart but ultimately meaningless considering how often they change values in sp a chart like this would be great once they get to a point where their not changing stuff every month
#4 Feb 20 2011 at 9:57 PM Rating: Excellent
Added this thread to the sticky.
#5 Feb 20 2011 at 10:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Glad you found this useful enough to sticky.

Regarding the fact that SE changes this every patch, I had an older version of this chart pre-1.15b and was able to update it to the one that's being posted in the OP now in about 3 hours. As long as they don't change the underlying variables in the formulae, it's very easy to see what they did and refigure out the new patterns.
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#6 Feb 20 2011 at 10:49 PM Rating: Default
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Where does everyone get the -10/+5 from? SE's official statement was that party bonus only applies to those +/-5 together. If someone was 36 and the other person was 31, no one would get a party bonus.

I confirmed this myself. On Doblyns Copperbell I was 30 archer and the pug was 36. I got 113 and he got 75. The moment I leveled to 31 I got 225 and he was getting 150.
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#7 Feb 20 2011 at 10:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elionara wrote:
Where does everyone get the -10/+5 from? SE's official statement was that party bonus only applies to those +/-5 together. If someone was 36 and the other person was 31, no one would get a party bonus.

I confirmed this myself. On Doblyns Copperbell I was 30 archer and the pug was 36. I got 113 and he got 75. The moment I leveled to 31 I got 225 and he was getting 150.


These patch notes are what I based the assumption on. I verified it as well since sometimes SE can make mistakes.

Quote:
The rank range that allows for bonus skill and experience point within a party has been expanded from ±5 to +5/-10.
Ex. In a party of three players, ranks 10, 15, and 20, the rank 10 player receives bonuses equivalent to that of a two-person party, as only one of the other players is within the rank range. From the perspectives of the rank 15 and 20 players, however, both of the other two party members fall within the rank range. They will therefore both receive bonuses equivalent to a three-person party.


Edited, Feb 20th 2011 11:58pm by Kaeko
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#8 Feb 20 2011 at 11:03 PM Rating: Good
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Props to you, Kaeko, for all your number crunching in FFXI and FFXIV. I can't speak for everybody, but you've definitely both helped and inspired me.
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#9 Feb 20 2011 at 11:06 PM Rating: Good
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Oh awesome, so it's the bottom people that get the shortend per say :P That makes some more sense then. Thanks!
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http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=18309
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Like Final Fantasy XI, the game specs will be extremely high for the time, but in about 5 years, an average machine can run it on max settings with little to no issues. Tanaka also expressed interest in making a benchmark program available.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I endorse this thread.
#10 Feb 21 2011 at 2:05 AM Rating: Good
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Great find!


Edited, Feb 21st 2011 2:06am by Threx
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#11 Feb 21 2011 at 3:41 AM Rating: Good
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This is very impressive!

I thoroughly read through both part I and part II (skipping straight to the charts and formulae would not be doing enough justice to your hard work). The scientific process of observation -> hypothesis -> proposing model -> testing is explained very well. and the best part, the formulae will be very easily tested and verified by others.

I am at work now so I cant test this yet, but so far I think my experience matches your results very well. Since it can be tested so easily, I am sure your formula is correct. Good work!!
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#12 Feb 21 2011 at 7:42 AM Rating: Good
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So basicly, the panic people have been putting up over this has been over absolutely nothing.

The reductions past the 8th member are so incredibly minor, they might as well not have existed at all.

Lets go back to our 15 member parties, guys. Spread the word!
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#13 Feb 21 2011 at 8:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
So basicly, the panic people have been putting up over this has been over absolutely nothing.

The reductions past the 8th member are so incredibly minor, they might as well not have existed at all.

Lets go back to our 15 member parties, guys. Spread the word!


It has been already verified that the chart or his post is not accurate past the 8th member. The difference is quite noticeable and not "minor".
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#14 Feb 21 2011 at 9:29 AM Rating: Default
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KojiroSoma wrote:
So basicly, the panic people have been putting up over this has been over absolutely nothing.

The reductions past the 8th member are so incredibly minor, they might as well not have existed at all.

Lets go back to our 15 member parties, guys. Spread the word!


Also this chart was made before SE updated to reduce exp after 8 members. Party sizes WILL be capped at 8 down the road, so we should only pay attention and care about the first 8 members right?
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http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=18309
Quote:
Like Final Fantasy XI, the game specs will be extremely high for the time, but in about 5 years, an average machine can run it on max settings with little to no issues. Tanaka also expressed interest in making a benchmark program available.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I endorse this thread.
#15 Feb 21 2011 at 9:44 AM Rating: Good
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Elionara wrote:
Also this chart was made before SE updated to reduce exp after 8 members. Party sizes WILL be capped at 8 down the road, so we should only pay attention and care about the first 8 members right?


The chart was updated after the patch. The reduction in SP goes at a sharper rate, -7% instead of -5%, for each member over 8. Vedis had reported something along these lines, 20% reduction at the ninth member, which is steeper then the 7% shown in the table.

This thread is a great place to post your own testing. You cannot simply add a ninth memeber and kill another mob without verifying the mobs level is the same as the mob before. A large sample group is neceesary. Con Checks from all party members can sometimes discover if one mobs is higher level then another. Very hard to verify that two mobs are identical.

I think it's worth noting that there is no penalty for duoing!

#16 Feb 21 2011 at 3:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elionara wrote:
KojiroSoma wrote:
So basicly, the panic people have been putting up over this has been over absolutely nothing.

The reductions past the 8th member are so incredibly minor, they might as well not have existed at all.

Lets go back to our 15 member parties, guys. Spread the word!


Also this chart was made before SE updated to reduce exp after 8 members. Party sizes WILL be capped at 8 down the road, so we should only pay attention and care about the first 8 members right?


Hyanman wrote:
It has been already verified that the chart or his post is not accurate past the 8th member. The difference is quite noticeable and not "minor".


I have a chart for post-1.15b party changes. The one linked in the OP is correct.

In fact, I even grayed out the part 9 to 15. If you look at the values themselves, you'll notice you receive no bonus for having more than 8 players within your range. This is what they mean by no bonus past 8 - you are still penalized for having additional players in the party, but are not credited for additional players in range over 8.

I am not aware of any other testing post-1.15b that would contradict the chart on my site. Besides the values I collected on my own, there were also a couple on BG that fit the chart as well at 15 members. I do consider it still a work in progress only due to rounding error verification. You are of course free to believe what you want to believe though.

Edited, Feb 21st 2011 4:32pm by Kaeko

Edited, Feb 21st 2011 4:33pm by Kaeko
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#17 Mar 02 2011 at 5:22 PM Rating: Excellent
Time to bump this.

Parties still seem to think that 8 is now a magic number for party size. If anything I would say 3 is a magic number. Those patch notes were simply misleading. I have players qouting from the patch notes all the time.

"Oh but you don't get any party bonus after 8 blah blah."

Vedis expalined it best, you don't get a reduction in party penalty after 8. One guy has taken the time to do ACTUAL TESTING and the results are clear.

Dou = No penalty.

3 man = 90% SP

4, 5, 6, 7, 8 = -5% SP per member (in the -10/+5 range)

9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 = -7% SP per member (in the -10/+5 range)

You DO NOT need to wait around shouting for an 8th member to make the perfect party. If you can handle the mobs, the only thing the eighth man does for you is %70 to %65 SP.

Well, you can always test for yourself and come back with data if you disagree.

Further, the 9th man reduces SP from 65% to 58% which is not exactly a deal breaker. Don't leave out your LS mate because the party is "full".

Edited, Mar 2nd 2011 6:29pm by SmashingtonWho
#18 Mar 02 2011 at 7:27 PM Rating: Good
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The party sp chart and the formula are completely correct. I've been able to use it and calculate exactly how many sp i am going to get before hitting the mob.

From my personal experience, 4 to 6 people is usually the magic number. The party is still strong enough to efficiently kill mobs 10 ranks higher for 3x base sp, and the party reduction is 15%-25% (i.e. you get 85%-75%). For leve parties tho, you also need to take into account the number of leves available. With 6 people, you get ~1055sp per mongrel in a max link dunesfolk for dinner leve, but usually there's only enough leves to do it two times. With a 8-man party, there should be enough leves to repeat dunesfolk for dinner three times, but you do get less sp per kill.

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