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I don't understand the new era of communication!Follow

#1 Feb 21 2011 at 7:41 AM Rating: Good
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I follow the Lodestone religiously as tragically it's the most interesting way to find out about the lore of Eorzea.

Full disclosure: English is not my primary language, but I like to think that I understand it pretty well considering that all the books I read are in English and I work in a company where English is the most common language.

Lately though my understanding skills have met their match in the form of Lodestone. (dun dun DUNN!)

It started slowly at first but when they published the Players' Poll 2 it hit me that I have no clue what these questions are and thus I haven't been able to answer them.

I followed several threads on Zam and other XIV forums where people are trying to break down questions about physical levels and instances. Surprisingly I couldn't find people or at least a consensus between players on what these questions mean.

Thus sadly I haven't answered the poll yet even though I really want to.

It's not only the poll either.
In the latest "Ask the Devs" the devs are asked:
"Q.

Does this mean that the optimal rank is used for determining the repair rank for non-synthesized items? (id est, items without a synthesis rank)?
A.

That is precisely what this means.
"



I'm really sorry but... WHAT!??!

"Letters from the Producer" have the same theme of confusion in their wording.

I used to think that "Current Tasks" are a list of features present in the next update but after the last week's big disappointment this clearly isn't the case.

Does anyone else wonder what the point of showing this excel sheet is? Maybe it's just a vague progress report of things being worked on?

Like apparently many other players I thought that they are giving us a content update this month. Actually based on the Lodestone post from the producer I thought that update would be online from the beginning of this month. I looked up that post again and again and I honestly don't think I "jumped into conclusions" based on what's written there.

"In line with the above results, we will be bringing quests and miniquests to Eorzea sometime after the beginning of February."


Technically Xmas is still after the beginning of February but considering what they are trying to communicate it seems like an incredibly mysterious way of announcing that feature.




I'm sorry if this post is full of grammatical errors. I'm sure some of you will find that ironic considering the topic I'm writing about =)

#2 Feb 21 2011 at 8:40 AM Rating: Decent
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seiferdincht wrote:
It's not only the poll either.
In the latest "Ask the Devs" the devs are asked:
"Q.

Does this mean that the optimal rank is used for determining the repair rank for non-synthesized items? (id est, items without a synthesis rank)?
A.

That is precisely what this means.
"



I'm really sorry but... WHAT!??!

"Letters from the Producer" have the same theme of confusion in their wording.

I used to think that "Current Tasks" are a list of features present in the next update but after the last week's big disappointment this clearly isn't the case.

Does anyone else wonder what the point of showing this excel sheet is? Maybe it's just a vague progress report of things being worked on?


What the question about optimal rank means that if you do not meet the crafting rank to repair gear, if your crafting rank is over the optimal rank of the gear you will still have a better chance of repairing it, example, if you have goldsmith rank 20, an dthe optimal rank of gear is 19 you will have more chance of repairing it than a rank 15 goldminth.

Also in the letters from the producer current tasks means, beleave it or not what they are currently working on, no neccecrily the next patch, and the point of it is to show they are being alot more open than they used to be. In ffxi we had no idea what they were working on, but now with ffxiv they are telling us exactly whats planned.
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#3 Feb 21 2011 at 8:52 AM Rating: Good
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I don't see how any of this would be hard to understand, depending on your English comprehension skills of course.

Quote:
Q.

Does this mean that the optimal rank is used for determining the repair rank for non-synthesized items? (id est, items without a synthesis rank)?
A.

That is precisely what this means.


Not all the items in the game are produced through synthesis. For these items, the optimal rank determines the repair rank, not the synthesis rank.

Quote:
I used to think that "Current Tasks" are a list of features present in the next update but after the last week's big disappointment this clearly isn't the case.


Current tasks are the tasks the development team is currently working on. It has nothing to do with the patches. They will be implemented once they are ready. Some features take longer than the others, this is obvious.

Quote:
"In line with the above results, we will be bringing quests and miniquests to Eorzea sometime after the beginning of February."


This was a fail on their part. It may have gotten delayed for all we know, but the wording definitely leaves them some room for that. He shouldn't have included that bit in his post if he wasn't certain they were going to make it though. But that's something we need to live with if we want them to talk more about the development process. They are either not going to talk as much as they do now or they are not going to give 100% accurate information all the time, because they simply can't look into the future, especially this early on. It's one or the other.

Edited, Feb 21st 2011 5:54pm by Hyanmen
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#4 Feb 22 2011 at 2:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think I understand the repair rank now. The rank refers to the rank required to fix the item right?

I can't believe I'm having trouble with these after learning the ropes of XI of all things.


The rest is still a mystery to me.
I think showing the time table on the things being worked on is confusing with no actual deadlines set to when we should expect to see these in the game.

Another thing I was wondering this morning that if the previous team had continued to work on the game would they be on track to publish the big company-update they promised last year? Not saying that I don't like the new team, just something that I was thinking.

Now that I look at the "current tasks" list some of it like introduction of classic ff jobs sound sound like very distant possible future.

Since I already confessed that some of this is hard to understand I might as well throw in the fact that some of the skill descriptions in the game are so high-flying, abstract and tailored for very specific moments that I've found myself just ignoring some of them.

At least in XI when I bought a new spell I immediately knew what it does.

The questions in the poll are still as vague as I first saw them. They aren't exactly giving us a lot of examples what the instanced content would be like. The point allotment system questions is just as mysterious. Apparently they want to avoid "like or different to XI" descriptions at all costs even though a lot of XIV player base are old residents of Vana'Diel. I can understand that non-XI players wouldn't understand such clarifications but the current debate on what these questions mean make me think that no explanation at all probably isn't that much better.

I like story driven instanced unique content but if I log into XIV next year and it feels like Phantasy Star Online then I can probably only blame myself and other players for wanting it "as much as possible" since SE has their behinds covered by not giving us too much info.
#5 Feb 23 2011 at 4:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Mmmm, see if this helps for the Rank:

All gear has an optimal Rank for equip, this is the first rank where when you equip it, you get full stats.

When repairing an item, the crafting rank of the repair action is often determined by the crafting rank of making the item. If the item is never made via synthesis, then it is determined by the optimal equip rank.

Does that help?
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#6 Feb 23 2011 at 5:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Zagaroth wrote:
Mmmm, see if this helps for the Rank:

All gear has an optimal Rank for equip, this is the first rank where when you equip it, you get full stats.

When repairing an item, the crafting rank of the repair action is often determined by the crafting rank of making the item. If the item is never made via synthesis, then it is determined by the optimal equip rank.

Does that help?


Lol thank you, like I said earlier I thought I already understood this point but your comment makes me doubt that now =D

So in items that can't be crafted the optimal equip rank s also the rank at which the crafting class to repair the item should be to have a good chance of doing a successful repair?

So now I think I understand the logic behind this issue. I won't lie it really made my head spin. I wish they'd add elemental benefits to days like in XI so they could literally blow my mind with the complexity. I like deep systems like that. =)
#7 Feb 23 2011 at 6:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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Zagaroth wrote:
Mmmm, see if this helps for the Rank:

All gear has an optimal Rank for equip, this is the first rank where when you equip it, you get full stats.

When repairing an item, the crafting rank of the repair action is often determined by the crafting rank of making the item. If the item is never made via synthesis, then it is determined by the optimal equip rank.

Does that help?


Nope.

It is either the optimal rank to equip the item or the rank required to craft the item, which ever is the lower will be selected.

For example:
R36 Silver Magnifier can be repaired at R26, even though the recipe is R48 (You need to be R38 to first able to attempt it). Optimal R is lower than Recipe R, hence Optimal R is used.
R43 Ice Brand can be repaired at R15, because the recipe is R25. Recipe R is lower than Optimal R, hence Recipe R is used.
In case of item that you don't have recipe, it's obvious the Optimal R is used because, well, it's lower!
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#8 Feb 23 2011 at 6:58 AM Rating: Good
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As an aside, for English not being your primary language you have a very good grasp of it.
#9 Feb 23 2011 at 7:15 AM Rating: Good
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seiferdincht wrote:
Another thing I was wondering this morning that if the previous team had continued to work on the game would they be on track to publish the big company-update they promised last year? Not saying that I don't like the new team, just something that I was thinking.

Now that I look at the "current tasks" list some of it like introduction of classic ff jobs sound sound like very distant possible future.


You're not the only one bothered by this table. They use three columns with time-related titles (Planned, Current, Future), and yet there seems to be no relation to when items in the table are actually implemented. Some Planned items are done, some seem to be far off. The current items are more complete than planned items, yet it comes after "Planned". Future tasks seem to be mostly analysis of previous additions, and yet there is at least one concrete item that is already implemented.

It's nice to see what they're considering with the future of FFXIV, but that table lacks any sense of logical organization with respect to time.
#10 Feb 23 2011 at 8:21 AM Rating: Good
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Hydragyrum wrote:
seiferdincht wrote:
Another thing I was wondering this morning that if the previous team had continued to work on the game would they be on track to publish the big company-update they promised last year? Not saying that I don't like the new team, just something that I was thinking.

Now that I look at the "current tasks" list some of it like introduction of classic ff jobs sound sound like very distant possible future.


You're not the only one bothered by this table. They use three columns with time-related titles (Planned, Current, Future), and yet there seems to be no relation to when items in the table are actually implemented. Some Planned items are done, some seem to be far off. The current items are more complete than planned items, yet it comes after "Planned". Future tasks seem to be mostly analysis of previous additions, and yet there is at least one concrete item that is already implemented.

It's nice to see what they're considering with the future of FFXIV, but that table lacks any sense of logical organization with respect to time.


The whole table is stupid. They tried to get too detailed. A simple list of items they are working on and a list of items they are considering would have been perfect.

One big problem with SE is that they seem to feel complelled to hide their motives. I don't konw why though. Most other developers will just tell you like it is.

"Hey, we don't want an AH because we are trying ot make this game be unique and stand out a little bit. Please give us some time because we have ideas about how to build on the retainer system and we really think you will like it a lot in the end."

Or, "We currently don't have a player search feature implemented because we don't want people getting the wrong impression about the server populations and creating mass hysteria. It isn't a matter of programming. The system is complete and we will be implementing in the near future"

Or, "We have lots of content already created, however, based on some of the changes we have made to the UI, Markets, Battle System, etc we have had to go back and fix/update things within that content. Also, the storyline of the game was initially designed to progress in a certain linear fahsion, which corresponds to the planned content expansions. So everything is bottlenecked by the fist big content release, which we are almost done fixing."

Or, "Many of you are wondering why Chocobos still have not been implemented. I don't want to give anything away, but once they are implemented you will understand why it took so long. They are built into the storyline and lore and it would not make sense to implement that feature until a couple of other things are implemented first."

Or, "Regarding the companies, we are still working on that feature and plan on releasing it as soon as we are finished. If I had to estimate right now I would guess that it will be two months before that content is ready."

I could go on all day. There are so many things they could share with us in a very straight-forward fashion. They don't understand that by not saying aything at all, most of us assume the worst. Even if they give us bad news about their delays and haing to go back and fix and change things, I don't think most of us would hold it against them. Its must better to let us know that things are delayed but coming soon, rather than these long drawn-out mysterious delays on "promised" updates.

I appreciate the fact that he is trying to do a better job communicating, but it still comes accross as speaking in riddles. No other game has this many post-announcement threads utilizing sentence diagrams to decipher what we should be expecting based on the announcement.




Edited, Feb 23rd 2011 8:25am by Mithsavvy
#11 Feb 23 2011 at 8:27 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Some Planned items are done, some seem to be far off. The current items are more complete than planned items, yet it comes after "Planned". Future tasks seem to be mostly analysis of previous additions, and yet there is at least one concrete item that is already implemented.


You don't seem to understand the table. Planned-row is simply the general feature they are working on. The row next to it (current tasks) are the tasks they are currently working on that are based on the feature in the planned-row. The future tasks are tasks that are linked to the feature in the planned-row, but their development has not yet been started.

It took me a minute to understand, but seriously, it's not rocket science.

Quote:
One big problem with SE is that they seem to feel complelled to hide their motives. I don't konw why though. Most other developers will just tell you like it is.


What "motives" are they hiding? "Chocobos are not coming yet because I thought they are not as important as the features currently in this list."

Really, Yoshida?! Thank God you told us that, we wouldn't have been able to know otherwise!

Edited, Feb 23rd 2011 5:29pm by Hyanmen
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#12 Feb 23 2011 at 10:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Some Planned items are done, some seem to be far off. The current items are more complete than planned items, yet it comes after "Planned". Future tasks seem to be mostly analysis of previous additions, and yet there is at least one concrete item that is already implemented.


You don't seem to understand the table. Planned-row is simply the general feature they are working on. The row next to it (current tasks) are the tasks they are currently working on that are based on the feature in the planned-row. The future tasks are tasks that are linked to the feature in the planned-row, but their development has not yet been started.

It took me a minute to understand, but seriously, it's not rocket science.


Regardless if you understand it, this table is overly complicated for no good reason.

Planned Items: Of course they're planned. This table does not contain any "un-planned" items, therefore this entire column is unnecessary. This is further evident in that most of the items in the planned column are repeated or re-worded in the other two columns.

Evaluation: We don't need to know what they plan on evaluating. Lets just assume that after they implement a feature they're not going to ignore it for the rest of time. Telling us what they're going to evaluate is again unnecessary.

Current vs. Future: Many of the features that FFXIV needs are continuous features (quests) and not one-time fixes. Separating Current vs. Future features is, again, redundant. If they're working on quests currently, I would hope they'll also continue to work on quests in the future. Likewise battle-related balancing will be on on-going endeavor as content is added. Also, there's a glaring inconsistency between the chronology of "Current" and "Future". Some "Current" items are quick fixes, some are the addition of entirely new concepts. These clearly will not be added at the same time, so why put them in the same category? Likewise some "Future" items are already completed. There seems to be no connection between the table's columns and when the features will actually be implemented.

This table could be condensed to about a third of the size without losing any important information. Long-windedness and comedy are fine in the text, but when supplying a table with the intent to convey a point, brevity is important. I know Yoshi-P commented on how he isn't happy with the table either, but in that case it probably would have been better to not include it at all. I don't mean to be overly critical, but communicating more doesn't mean 6-page long tables with redundant and unnecessary information.
#13 Feb 23 2011 at 1:14 PM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Some Planned items are done, some seem to be far off. The current items are more complete than planned items, yet it comes after "Planned". Future tasks seem to be mostly analysis of previous additions, and yet there is at least one concrete item that is already implemented.


You don't seem to understand the table. Planned-row is simply the general feature they are working on. The row next to it (current tasks) are the tasks they are currently working on that are based on the feature in the planned-row. The future tasks are tasks that are linked to the feature in the planned-row, but their development has not yet been started.

It took me a minute to understand, but seriously, it's not rocket science.

Quote:
One big problem with SE is that they seem to feel complelled to hide their motives. I don't konw why though. Most other developers will just tell you like it is.


What "motives" are they hiding? "Chocobos are not coming yet because I thought they are not as important as the features currently in this list."

Really, Yoshida?! Thank God you told us that, we wouldn't have been able to know otherwise!

Edited, Feb 23rd 2011 5:29pm by Hyanmen



People love this argument. "I understand it, therefore it's perfectly fine"

You are completely missing the point and I suspect your mindset is consistent with theirs (SE).
#14 Feb 23 2011 at 1:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Planned Items: Of course they're planned. This table does not contain any "un-planned" items, therefore this entire column is unnecessary.


The naming of the column is off, it's there to help in categorizing the current tasks into features they are a part of. For example "Quest-related system changes" include everything pertaining to adjusting quests, and is different from "Public company quests" which is a different feature altogether, with it's own additions and tweaks. Thus we are not confused by thinking "Addition of icons to make quest NPC's more recognizable" somehow relates to "Planning of public companies and related quests in Limsa Lominsa, Ul'dah, and Gridania" just because those changes are back-to-back in the table. Here, the "planned"-column specifies that the aforementioned adjustment relates to every quest, not just public company quests.

Quote:
Evaluation: We don't need to know what they plan on evaluating. Lets just assume that after they implement a feature they're not going to ignore it for the rest of time.


Some features they are not going to evaluate if the demand from the playerbase is not high enough. Some features they are going to keep tweaking even after implementing them by default. I don't think it's useless to mention that, because we will know that even if the feature ends up being less polished, they are still going to be working on it.

Quote:
Some "Current" items are quick fixes, some are the addition of entirely new concepts. These clearly will not be added at the same time, so why put them in the same category?


The point of the table is not to tell us what will be added at the same time. The point is to tell us what they are working on at the moment. They are working on a jump feature and minimap additions simultaneously, which is why they are both in the same category. Simple.

Quote:
Likewise some "Future" items are already completed.


Elaborate?

Quote:
I don't mean to be overly critical, but communicating more doesn't mean 6-page long tables with redundant and unnecessary information.


Too bad you don't find this table informative, I do. It tells exactly what I wanted to know, and is simpler to read than 6 line paragraphs with little bits of information here and there.

Edited, Feb 23rd 2011 10:27pm by Hyanmen
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#15 Feb 23 2011 at 2:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Likewise some "Future" items are already completed.


Elaborate?


Their analysis of item stack sizes in under "future tasks" and yet it is greyed out indicating that it is complete. Also, implementation of mini-map changes are both completed and "Future". This still shows that their "timing" isn't logical. Future tasks cannot already be completed, else they wouldn't exist in the future.

Hyanmen wrote:
Too bad you don't find this table informative, I do. It tells exactly what I wanted to know, and is simpler to read than 6 line paragraphs with little bits of information here and there.


I do find it informative. My point is that it could be equally informative while being one third the length. Just look at how much explaining you had to do to defend this table. A simple table should NOT need to be defended. It should be clear and concise, which this table most definitely is not.

Edited, Feb 23rd 2011 2:13pm by Hydragyrum
#16 Feb 23 2011 at 2:19 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Their analysis of item stack sizes in under "future tasks" and yet it is greyed out indicating that it is complete.


Ah, yes. Looks like their examination finished sooner than they thought and they could implement it earlier. That was their current task at the time the letter was posted. Pretty cool.

Quote:
Just look at how much explaining you had to do to defend this table. A simple table should NOT need to be defended. It should be clear and concise, which this table most definitely is not.


Yet it's pretty easy to understand. I don't know why you have trouble. Although considering how many people have trouble with something as simple as using a computer... sure, theres always people who just don't get it. No matter how simple things are made for them. You ever worked in customer service before?

Really, what I'm saying is it's good enough. No need for "this coffee is hot" and "this bag of peanuts may include nuts"-manuals.
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#17 Feb 23 2011 at 2:26 PM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Their analysis of item stack sizes in under "future tasks" and yet it is greyed out indicating that it is complete.


Ah, yes. Looks like their examination finished sooner than they thought and they could implement it earlier. That was their current task at the time the letter was posted. Pretty cool.


No, it was a "Future" task at the time, not "Current". That means they're currently working on "Future" tasks. Don't you see the contradiction?

Hyanmen wrote:

Really, what I'm saying is it's good enough. No need for "this coffee is hot" and "this bag of peanuts may include nuts"-manuals.


Yes, I'm nitpicking. But why does SE need to make things harder on themselves by making up a convoluted table of "Current" and "Future" tasks (which apparently have no logical meaning) when all they need is a "We're working on this" column and cut out over half of the redundant information. Their communication with non-Japanese players has always struggled. Why make it worse? Remember that this thread is about SE's communication.
#18 Feb 23 2011 at 2:34 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
No, it was a "Future" task at the time, not "Current". That means they're currently working on "Future" tasks. Don't you see the contradiction?


Yes, when posting that letter their current task was examination of increased stack sizes. That's what they were doing. After the letter was posted, they moved on to actually implementing said changes faster than they probably thought. If they had known it wouldn't take as long as they thought, they would have included the future task as the current task. They were faster than they thought they would be, don't think there's any point to be upset about that. This list is a generalization after all, obviously.

Quote:
But why does SE need to make things harder on themselves by making up a convoluted table of "Current" and "Future" tasks (which apparently have no logical meaning)


I just explained the meaning and yes, it is logical. At the time of the letter, the current tasks are the tasks they are working on, and the future tasks come after the current tasks are done. It, and I repeat once again, tells us nothing about what will be included in the specific patches. It's not supposed to. It gives us a rough idea and the direction of the game for the few upcoming months, as it should.

There's no redundant information in that table, maybe it goes a little too much into detail and the naming of some parts is off but I have no qualms with that considering it was the opposite for long time.



Edited, Feb 23rd 2011 11:36pm by Hyanmen
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#19 Feb 23 2011 at 3:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Yes, when posting that letter their current task was examination of increased stack sizes. That's what they were doing.


I wasn't talking about the "examination" of stack sizes, but rather the "Implementation" of stack sizes which has always been in the "Future" category. The wording stays the same between letter II and letter III, but the "Implementation" is greyed out in letter III, indicating it is complete. Even you, who claims to understand the table, are confused by it.

Hyanmen wrote:
There's no redundant information in that table, maybe it goes a little too much into detail and the naming of some parts is off but I have no qualms with that considering it was the opposite for long time.


We must have different definitions of redundant. Look under the "Quests" section of the table. They list 4 categories of quests as well as changes to (assuming) current quests. This is all that was needed to get their point across. Instead, they further detailed that they're actually going to plan and implement the quests they just mentioned, (As if we were assuming they were pulling our leg in the "Planned" column.) followed by the future introduction of more quests (as if the addition of more quests is something new to MMOs and needs specific mention). Half of the text in the "Quests" section could be eliminated without losing any information. They repeat "Implementation of additional quests" four times for crying out loud. How many times throughout the table do they say things like "Further examination of XYZ". Redundant.

Yes, the table has lots of good information, but you have to sift through meaningless repeated comments like "Announcements of further changes as they arise". That is not concise.

#20 Feb 23 2011 at 3:23 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
I wasn't talking about the "examination" of stack sizes, but rather the "Implementation" of stack sizes which has always been in the "Future" category. The wording stays the same between letter II and letter III, but the "Implementation" is greyed out in letter III, indicating it is complete. Even you, who claims to understand the table, are confused by it.


Huh? I am not confused by the table. Between letters two and three (or rather, one and three) they moved from examining the stack sizes to implementing them. At the time the letter one was made, they were still examining the change, not implementing it, thus it was posted as the "current" task. They were simply fast in moving on in this case.

There is nothing confusing about it at all. Rather, it's a pleasant surprise.

Quote:
They list 4 categories of quests as well as changes to (assuming) current quests. This is all that was needed to get their point across.


More than likely it is there to stay in line with the rest of the post, to not make it seem broken down and to keep the wording consistent. Maybe quests did not need more info to get the point across, but lots of things in that list did. Consistency is good, otherwise the table would become confusing.

Quote:
Yes, the table has lots of good information, but you have to sift through meaningless repeated comments like "Announcements of further changes as they arise". That is not concise.


Yes, it is. That means they are still not sure about what exactly they are going to do, and state it as such. If they end up doing something else instead of what the current tasks led us to believe, that is the announcement of the change as it arose. It's good to know that this is a possibility, especially if you still want to affect the development of said feature by voicing your opinion about it.
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#21 Feb 23 2011 at 3:24 PM Rating: Good
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I see what Hydragyrum is saying. Certainly the chart conveys some good information, but it could have been done MUCH more simply and efficiently. As an HCI grad student (Human Computer Interaction), this is the exact kind of thing we look at on a daily basis: the formatting and layout of information and it's ease of access. This chart was NOT laid out well, nor were the column headings well thought out, and neither was the idea to to make a 3 column, 60 row chart in the first place. Nothing frustrates people more than not being able to understand or find information due to poor wording or layout. This thread is a perfect example of that, and clearly there IS an issue with it, or people would not be arguing over it in the first place.
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#22 Feb 23 2011 at 3:33 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
This thread is a perfect example of that, and clearly there IS an issue with it, or people would not be arguing over it in the first place.


Today I went to drink a cup of coffee, but there was no warning in the mug that the drink would be hot!

You can find people with a problem to understand anything no matter how simply it is laid out for them. This table isn't perfect, but it does it's job. If I can understand it in 5 minutes none of you should have trouble with it.
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SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#23 Feb 23 2011 at 9:03 PM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
This thread is a perfect example of that, and clearly there IS an issue with it, or people would not be arguing over it in the first place.


Today I went to drink a cup of coffee, but there was no warning in the mug that the drink would be hot!

You can find people with a problem to understand anything no matter how simply it is laid out for them. This table isn't perfect, but it does it's job. If I can understand it in 5 minutes none of you should have trouble with it.


As I already stated, the chart DOES convey some good information, but in a very poor format. I'm glad you think it's all peachy keen, but as someone who works on interfaces all the time, I can assure it is very poor. If someone in one of my classes created something like that, they would be torn a new ******* by the professor. Regardless of if the chart itself FUNCTIONS, it could have been done much more efficiently.
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#24 Feb 23 2011 at 9:40 PM Rating: Good
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English is my second language as well, and although I understand it more than my native language, some of the posts on Lodestone leave me scratching my head too. I think it's just their style to try to be a little more poetic or eloquent, but it comes off as confusing a lot of the time.
#25 Feb 24 2011 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
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568 posts
Just wanted to tune in after reading all the replies to this post.

I have to say after reading that arguing it's safe to assume that I'm not the only one having a problem at understanding what they're trying to say.

Here's another quote from the list that "briefly outlines the content slated for release in the forthcoming patch."

Quote:
Examination of dramatic effects when a new rank or level is attained


Ok so let the questimation begin!

With the current string of underwhelming patches I think it's safe to assume that the "content" (coughnotcough) mentioned here is not part of the patch. It's just around that time the patch is due somebody at SE is looking into the mentioned event and probably doing some concepts of possible replacements or enhancements to these effects and if they decide to implement them we'll probably see them in-game after the beginning of March (= SE-speak for mid-April).
#26 Feb 24 2011 at 10:15 AM Rating: Default
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3,416 posts
Quote:
With the current string of underwhelming patches I think it's safe to assume that the "content" (coughnotcough) mentioned here is not part of the patch. It's just around that time the patch is due somebody at SE is looking into the mentioned event and probably doing some concepts of possible replacements or enhancements to these effects and if they decide to implement them we'll probably see them in-game after the beginning of March (= SE-speak for mid-April).


Harhar.

The patch outline specifies the content of the patch in question (1.15a, 1.16, etc.). That's the purpose of the outline, and it does what it's supposed to do. And the same goes for the producer's letter: it gives us a rough outline of things to come in the coming months, with no specific dates (because they can't give us anything specific information for that far to the future. If you have trouble grasping why, it's because no one at SE has a crystal ball as good as yours is). Why people are having so much trouble with this concept remains a greater mystery.

Edited, Feb 24th 2011 7:16pm by Hyanmen
____________________________
SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#27 Feb 24 2011 at 10:52 AM Rating: Decent
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2,285 posts
The OP made me think of this,

http://bitsandpieces.us/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/imageswoodchuck-translation_small.jpg

SE patch notes/information is never originally written in english, so is confusing at best.
#28 Feb 24 2011 at 11:07 AM Rating: Good
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568 posts
Purplenv wrote:
The OP made me think of this,

http://bitsandpieces.us/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/imageswoodchuck-translation_small.jpg

SE patch notes/information is never originally written in english, so is confusing at best.


Quote:
SE says: 1. patchIt is in a state that I am new, and 16 brings most with the various kinds of improvement to a search, user interface more, and it is planned I am raw, and to go in the beginning of March!


... o_O()

let's try that again:

Quote:
1. So that nation and 16 enter the opening in March in order that the search of the various kinds of the kind that I by the improvement to a user that interface and I that patchIt is new don't become ripe still more bring most people is planned and I am inside!


Dude leave the opening alone were all ripe enough right now thank you. >__>

Few rounds through translation.babylon.com tool makes everything slightly better =)
#29 Feb 24 2011 at 7:20 PM Rating: Good
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6,898 posts
Quote:
Why people are having so much trouble with this concept remains a greater mystery.


Why you're having so much trouble understanding that a poorly designed chart is poor is a greater mystery to me.
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Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
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#30 Feb 25 2011 at 2:42 AM Rating: Default
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3,416 posts
Quote:
Why you're having so much trouble understanding that a poorly designed chart is poor is a greater mystery to me.


Aye. I was just talking about this same issue to a friend of mine. I mean, coffee mugs do not give you any indicator that the liquid in it is hot or cold. They should at the very least make the mug glow in red or blue so we can prepare. Why do we have to deal with such poorly designed mugs?

"But Hyan, the mug does it's job well enough, so that sounds like more of a silly nitpicking more than anything."

But I have a huge issue with the mug! I can't function without any kind of indicator. I may even go to the popular mug-forums to complain about this. Don't ridicule me!
____________________________
SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#31 Feb 25 2011 at 7:55 AM Rating: Good
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800 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Why you're having so much trouble understanding that a poorly designed chart is poor is a greater mystery to me.


Aye. I was just talking about this same issue to a friend of mine. I mean, coffee mugs do not give you any indicator that the liquid in it is hot or cold. They should at the very least make the mug glow in red or blue so we can prepare. Why do we have to deal with such poorly designed mugs?

"But Hyan, the mug does it's job well enough, so that sounds like more of a silly nitpicking more than anything."

But I have a huge issue with the mug! I can't function without any kind of indicator. I may even go to the popular mug-forums to complain about this. Don't ridicule me!


I've learned that arguing opinions is about as silly as it gets. The only thing sillier is using improper analogies to argue opinions.

Yes, we get that you think the chart is grand. Why can't you understand that many of us don't find the chart as useful as it could be? The whole problem with SE's communication style is that they always aim for something other than the information itself. Whether it's comedy, poetry, excessive charts and graphs, they always go over the top when a simple to-the-point analysis would function better.
#32 Feb 25 2011 at 10:08 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Yes, we get that you think the chart is grand.


Oh, not at all. I think that it does it's job and that complaining about it is silly. I'm sure it can be done better, I say it's pointless. There's no need for Coffee Mug 2000 Turbo. Especially when the 'improvements' don't change anything really. You take away the planned column, the message of the chart stays the same. They remove some of the repeated tasks, the message is the same.

They simply don't give a crap because they have better things to do and the chart is functional. Their 'chart designers' are currently working on the game (or the forums). Thats what matters.

Edited, Feb 25th 2011 7:08pm by Hyanmen
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SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#33 Feb 25 2011 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
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6,898 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Why you're having so much trouble understanding that a poorly designed chart is poor is a greater mystery to me.


Aye. I was just talking about this same issue to a friend of mine. I mean, coffee mugs do not give you any indicator that the liquid in it is hot or cold. They should at the very least make the mug glow in red or blue so we can prepare. Why do we have to deal with such poorly designed mugs?

"But Hyan, the mug does it's job well enough, so that sounds like more of a silly nitpicking more than anything."

But I have a huge issue with the mug! I can't function without any kind of indicator. I may even go to the popular mug-forums to complain about this. Don't ridicule me!


Your arguments seem to get more ridiculous every time you post. I'm not going to point out the unbelievable discrepancies in your analogy here, as I think it's pretty obvious to anyone reading.

...comparing a coffee mug to an information chart... that's so cute. =P
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#34 Feb 25 2011 at 10:43 AM Rating: Default
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Your arguments seem to get more ridiculous every time you post. I'm not going to point out the unbelievable discrepancies in your analogy here, as I think it's pretty obvious to anyone reading.


Okay.. can I ask you a question?

If you had absolutely nothing of value to say, why did you post that last reply?

I mean, usually people just hit the red button when they can't be ***** to actually debate but still want to express their disagreement. That usually works just fine.

Edited, Feb 25th 2011 7:45pm by Hyanmen
____________________________
SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#35 Feb 25 2011 at 1:03 PM Rating: Good
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6,898 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Your arguments seem to get more ridiculous every time you post. I'm not going to point out the unbelievable discrepancies in your analogy here, as I think it's pretty obvious to anyone reading.


Okay.. can I ask you a question?

If you had absolutely nothing of value to say, why did you post that last reply?

I mean, usually people just hit the red button when they can't be ***** to actually debate but still want to express their disagreement. That usually works just fine.

Edited, Feb 25th 2011 7:45pm by Hyanmen


Mainly to keep myself entertained. Also, because had I listed out the insanely flawed logic of your analogy, it would have just fueled an even more ridiculous argument where you would have tried to justify your analogy as accurate, and to be quite honest, even the comedic value of that isn't worth it to me.
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Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
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#36 Feb 25 2011 at 1:15 PM Rating: Good
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3,178 posts
Khornette wrote:
It is either the optimal rank to equip the item or the rank required to craft the item, which ever is the lower will be selected.
For example:
R36 Silver Magnifier can be repaired at R26, even though the recipe is R48 (You need to be R38 to first able to attempt it). Optimal R is lower than Recipe R, hence Optimal R is used.
R43 Ice Brand can be repaired at R15, because the recipe is R25. Recipe R is lower than Optimal R, hence Recipe R is used.
In case of item that you don't have recipe, it's obvious the Optimal R is used because, well, it's lower!


If only you were the translator for the Lodestone. I finally understnad what should have been easy thanks to your post.

Thank you.
#37 Feb 25 2011 at 1:41 PM Rating: Default
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3,416 posts
Quote:
Also, because had I listed out the insanely flawed logic of your analogy, it would have just fueled an even more ridiculous argument where you would have tried to justify your analogy as accurate, and to be quite honest, even the comedic value of that isn't worth it to me.


Too bad, really. It would have been entertaining. Hiding behind a kindergarten speech is simply disappointing.
____________________________
SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#38 Feb 25 2011 at 7:44 PM Rating: Good
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6,898 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Also, because had I listed out the insanely flawed logic of your analogy, it would have just fueled an even more ridiculous argument where you would have tried to justify your analogy as accurate, and to be quite honest, even the comedic value of that isn't worth it to me.


Too bad, really. It would have been entertaining. Hiding behind a kindergarten speech is simply disappointing.


I'd say it's about the same level as trying to bate someone into an argument with insults. ^^
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Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#39 Feb 26 2011 at 11:00 AM Rating: Decent
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3,416 posts
Quote:
I'd say it's about the same level as trying to bate someone into an argument with insults. ^^


Oh, who would do such thing? Ohh

Quote:
had I listed out the insanely flawed logic of your analogy


That's just not a nice thing to saya at all, I completely agree, although it's not that much of an insult.
____________________________
SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#40 Feb 26 2011 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
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6,898 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
I'd say it's about the same level as trying to bate someone into an argument with insults. ^^


Oh, who would do such thing? Ohh

Quote:
had I listed out the insanely flawed logic of your analogy


That's just not a nice thing to saya at all, I completely agree, although it's not that much of an insult.


That wasn't an insult, just me pointing out flawed reasoning in a demonstrative way. Of course, your tiny brain probably can't even fathom that...

...see now THAT's an insult, but really just a joke since I don't really mean it. God, I suck at insulting people.

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