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Unberstanding ContentFollow

#1 Feb 23 2011 at 4:52 PM Rating: Default
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This is my opinion, so i'm not right or i'm not wrong.


If they add something to the game, not tweak it but add it, that is also considered content. Lets say for example when they added the Market Wards search function before it existed, Ya that's content. Content isn't just Quest/story line but new features that didn't exist before.

Now if they tweak something that is allready in the game that's not content. As of now SE is thinking about ways to tweak the Fighting. When they do ( because everything points toward they are) that will not be content but tweaks (maybe major tweaks) to the exitsing content.

This is once again my view on Content.
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#2 Feb 23 2011 at 4:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think when people say they want content they are asking for stuff to do in game. Improved market wards is not something to do.

People want their chocobo quest and bcnms.

I think your confusing Features for Content though. They are adding new features, the market ward search I would say is a feature, not content.
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#3 Feb 23 2011 at 5:01 PM Rating: Good
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IMO
content is things u can do with your character (ie. quests/bosses to kill/storyline/places to explore/items to make). Search function is just that.. a function(ality) and I dont think that should be called content. Like adding an index to a book, its not content to the book, its just a thing to make the book more accessible.
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#4 Feb 23 2011 at 5:03 PM Rating: Excellent
Really? You should know better. How many discussions are there on this topic already? Oh sorry you probably searched Unberstanding and that's why you didn't see those countless other threads. No worries I always have problems searching a thread to necropost in and thus create my own (honestly with horrible typos in the thread title as well).

Seriously though, this is not a dead horse, it's a rotting equine corpse.
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#5 Feb 23 2011 at 5:14 PM Rating: Default
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I understand what people want, **** I want more to do also ingame.

If you read the Letters from producers III they say they added all the content for this month, First sentence second paragraph. So from SE they did add content to the game in February.

Whether you call it Features or SE calls it Content its still content to SE.

This is something that can be debated to no end. People who play the game would like to have more to do, we can all agree on that.

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#6 Feb 23 2011 at 5:23 PM Rating: Good
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Actually, the improved search with pricing made it possible to actually buy and sell things somewhat efficiently....

New Content => Shopping (something to do :) )


I think what the OP points out of value is that the developer's understanding of the word 'content' and the communities' understanding of the word 'content' could very well be different.

Edited, Feb 23rd 2011 6:25pm by NayliaMR
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#7 Feb 23 2011 at 5:35 PM Rating: Good
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flavvor wrote:
This is my opinion, so i'm not right or i'm not wrong.


Great way to start a thread. Now that I know about how open minded you are and how interested you are in discussing this topic, please go on and express your opinion. I will absolutely read it and care about what you have to say.
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#8 Feb 23 2011 at 9:24 PM Rating: Good
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All i can say is I know how to start a thread...lol

But here's to March showing up with some content, wink...wink. I guess i should say Quest's and or story line or other battle related goals. Really anything new is good for me that improves the game.
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#9 Feb 23 2011 at 10:10 PM Rating: Default
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flavvor wrote:
This is my opinion, so i'm not right or i'm not wrong.


If they add something to the game, not tweak it but add it, that is also considered content. Lets say for example when they added the Market Wards search function before it existed, Ya that's content. Content isn't just Quest/story line but new features that didn't exist before.

Now if they tweak something that is allready in the game that's not content. As of now SE is thinking about ways to tweak the Fighting. When they do ( because everything points toward they are) that will not be content but tweaks (maybe major tweaks) to the exitsing content.

This is once again my view on Content.


Sorry.

Your opinion is faulty and incorrect, ergo you are wrong.
#10 Feb 23 2011 at 10:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Pankatron, yes please.

I want to do some pokemon battles in ffxiv too.
#11 Feb 23 2011 at 10:59 PM Rating: Default
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What is this content you speak off ? Oh! That thing this game does not has ? 6 months after release ? What about it ?
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#12 Feb 24 2011 at 12:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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You know a game is severely lacking content when you have to have a "what is content" discussion about it.
#13 Feb 24 2011 at 1:30 AM Rating: Good
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Enough is enough.

I've worked for many of the major publishers in the videogame industry and there is just no justification for a thread like this to even exist.

If a publisher asks for more content in the game NONE OF THE THINGS IN THIS MONTHS UPDATES WOULD BE ANYWHERE NEAR TO BEING EVEN CONSIDERED AS A CONTENT. If the tweaks were suggested as content everybody would laugh over that funny joke and move on with the discussion.

When more content is asked for it's un-necessary to describe what that means. Even all the interns know what can be considered as content.

Quote:
Patch 1.15a went live with all of the intended content (resulting in a bit of behest-induced fever on some forums, hehe), and the dev team is now on the next step in improving the game.



There are only 2 explanations to this kind of comment. Either it's translated wrong or mr.Yoshida is high and wasted while writing this.

It's not "IMO" thing and it's not subjective in any way. We have not had added content this month in the game.SE does not get to define their own meaning for this word and explaining it on their behalf is a fools errand.

I am sorry that this offends your feeling but I really don't want to sugar coat it as I'm afraid that will make it sound like an "opinion". It is not this is how all the devs view content and I'm willing to bet money that SE knows this too. They know they haven't delivered what they promised.

I really am rooting for SE to get the content ready to be published as much as the next guy but no matter how you spin it that has NOT happened yet.
#14 Feb 24 2011 at 1:37 AM Rating: Decent
Yeah, unfortunately content and features tend to get mixed up. There is only three kind of updates: Content (something to do); Features (things added to the game that you interact with); and patches (fixing bugs, adjusting mechanics.

THats at least how I see it. for now my plate is full anyway, so im content with leveling alchemy/botany. oh well.
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#15 Feb 24 2011 at 1:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Content is... what I did in XI today...

-First I did a whole bunch of tuitorial quests
-then I did some book quests (FoV)-(sort of like less flashy/ungated leves (if people don't know)
-then I found a mog tablet and delivered it to Jeuno for a fancy pants exp ring
-delivered supplies to an outpost to unlock a warp point
-did some more pages
-after getting to level 18 some friends helped me get items for my subjob quest
-did another supply quest to unlock another warp point
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#16 Feb 24 2011 at 2:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Content is... what I did in XI today...

-First I did a whole bunch of tuitorial quests
-then I did some book quests (FoV)-(sort of like less flashy/ungated leves (if people don't know)
-then I found a mog tablet and delivered it to Jeuno for a fancy pants exp ring
-delivered supplies to an outpost to unlock a warp point
-did some more pages
-after getting to level 18 some friends helped me get items for my subjob quest
-did another supply quest to unlock another warp point



I think that is a good practical way of saying it. The only thing I have to disagree on is FoV being less flashy than a floating rock. =) You can't buy cookies from rocks now can you? Cookies win!
#17 Feb 24 2011 at 3:44 AM Rating: Good
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So for example the UI is content, the music is content, the character models are content and so on. People know exactly what content means but generally refer to things to do as the definition because like the word "epic" has been skewered many times in terms of MMORPGs.
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#18 Feb 24 2011 at 7:47 AM Rating: Decent
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then stop just saying you want more content and spell out what you would like to see in-game. If SE considers new features content, then tell them we want quests not just "content".
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#19 Feb 24 2011 at 2:34 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Content is... what I did in XI today...

-First I did a whole bunch of tuitorial quests
-then I did some book quests (FoV)-(sort of like less flashy/ungated leves (if people don't know)
-then I found a mog tablet and delivered it to Jeuno for a fancy pants exp ring
-delivered supplies to an outpost to unlock a warp point
-did some more pages
-after getting to level 18 some friends helped me get items for my subjob quest
-did another supply quest to unlock another warp point


oh then I died to a lower level nm I had never seen before, took the ferry, ran to another starting city, started the star onion brigade quest, got a nice necklace I will be able to use for 20 levels or so, and I also triggered three different cut scenes (not including star onion CS or starting CS) during my 1 evening of play.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#20 Feb 24 2011 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
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FFXI didn't have FOV, Mog tablets, outpost warps or any of that stuff six months after launch. Most of what you mentioned came much later.
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#21 Feb 24 2011 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
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superdupernuker wrote:
FFXI didn't have FOV, Mog tablets, outpost warps or any of that stuff six months after launch. Most of what you mentioned came much later.


Yes, and SE should have learned about what players like from their long long long experience with XI. They thought that in 2010 people would be satisfied with an unfinished shell of a game. Well.. I guess they were wrong.

Would have been cheaper to just keep it in development till they had implemented content.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#22 Feb 24 2011 at 2:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, at least they ditched some of the more irritating things about FFXI for FFXIV (No more experience loss, no more: You move and interrupt your aim. or accidentally interrupting your spell.) Don't get me wrong, I would have liked more stuff that is already in FFXI to be implemented in FFXIV, but it took time to get that stuff in FFXI, as it will take time to get that stuff into FFXIV. Should it have been more polished before release? 9/10 people say yes, including me.
I don't know if there's any truth to the rumor that they spent the majority of the five years FFXIV supposedly spent in development creating the Crystal Tools engine, but if it is true, than it's actually pretty impressive what they got accomplished in ~2 years.
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#23 Feb 24 2011 at 4:18 PM Rating: Good
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jPuff wrote:
You know a game is severely lacking content when you have to have a "what is content" discussion about it.


Well now that all depends on what your definition of the word is is.
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#24 Feb 24 2011 at 4:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't unberstand what the OP is saying.
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#25 Feb 24 2011 at 5:03 PM Rating: Good
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He's basically saying that anything new added to the game is 'content'. While most people look at 'content' as "substantive creative material" such as quests, battle types, areas...not just a new system capability like a Looking For Group icon by your name.

My comment above was that from the way SE sometimes uses the word he may be on to something, as I think SE may sometimes misuse the phrase 'content' in their communication to mean anything that is not a bug fix. So Patch 1.15a was all 'content', and 1.15b was 'fixes' or 'tweaks'.

I'm not saying that I think this is how the words should be defined, or are defined, but how they may come through across language barriers.

While the idea that 'content' doesn't mean New Stuff To Do may disturb some people (or a lot of people), I think that it's a valid concern that that is how SE is defining things.

Edited, Feb 24th 2011 6:05pm by NayliaMR
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#26 Feb 24 2011 at 5:09 PM Rating: Good
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seiferdincht wrote:
Quote:
Patch 1.15a went live with all of the intended content (resulting in a bit of behest-induced fever on some forums, hehe), and the dev team is now on the next step in improving the game.



There are only 2 explanations to this kind of comment. Either it's translated wrong or mr.Yoshida is high and wasted while writing this.


Very valid concern...or that they are using an alternative definition in that a patch is a "container" for software functionality of any type and that anything in said patch are the 'content' or 'contents' of the patch.
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#27 Feb 24 2011 at 5:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Content is... what I did in XI today...

-First I did a whole bunch of tuitorial quests
-then I did some book quests (FoV)-(sort of like less flashy/ungated leves (if people don't know)
-then I found a mog tablet and delivered it to Jeuno for a fancy pants exp ring
-delivered supplies to an outpost to unlock a warp point
-did some more pages
-after getting to level 18 some friends helped me get items for my subjob quest
-did another supply quest to unlock another warp point


oh then I died to a lower level nm I had never seen before, took the ferry, ran to another starting city, started the star onion brigade quest, got a nice necklace I will be able to use for 20 levels or so, and I also triggered three different cut scenes (not including star onion CS or starting CS) during my 1 evening of play.


You are making it SOOO hard to not reactivate... I planned to reactivate in March but you're making that wait so unbearable!

Edited, Feb 24th 2011 6:15pm by Louiscool
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#28 Feb 25 2011 at 7:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Louiscool wrote:
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Content is... what I did in XI today...

-First I did a whole bunch of tuitorial quests
-then I did some book quests (FoV)-(sort of like less flashy/ungated leves (if people don't know)
-then I found a mog tablet and delivered it to Jeuno for a fancy pants exp ring
-delivered supplies to an outpost to unlock a warp point
-did some more pages
-after getting to level 18 some friends helped me get items for my subjob quest
-did another supply quest to unlock another warp point


oh then I died to a lower level nm I had never seen before, took the ferry, ran to another starting city, started the star onion brigade quest, got a nice necklace I will be able to use for 20 levels or so, and I also triggered three different cut scenes (not including star onion CS or starting CS) during my 1 evening of play.


You are making it SOOO hard to not reactivate... I planned to reactivate in March but you're making that wait so unbearable!

Edited, Feb 24th 2011 6:15pm by Louiscool



Amen to that.

My favorite part about XI is probably the traveling especially on lower levels when you don't have the access to the airship or chocobos yet.

Even on higher levels when you plan on making money and minimizing trips you have to at least in some form think of a long term strategy on how you use your time in Vana'diel most efficiently.

Grab a few rock salts while dropping off those bat wings to the NPC and then activate the warp that takes you to Jeuno where you can sell the items you crafted in that guild in Windy.

To me that is wonderful immersion and the way all these locations are scattered throughout the world is content in itself and what's wonderful about it is that everyone can approach it in their own way without timers or automatic crafting mats.

I know content like that will never happen in XIV because it's all about "zap into everywhere do your stuff so you can log out sooner to do your grown up life-stuff", but I hope they add content that can somehow make the world feel alive like the world of XI feels.

Shouldn't be too much to ask for as 99% of Vana'diel is a burnt down dead endless lonely wasteland! =)


#29 Feb 25 2011 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
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NayliaMR wrote:
seiferdincht wrote:
Quote:
Patch 1.15a went live with all of the intended content (resulting in a bit of behest-induced fever on some forums, hehe), and the dev team is now on the next step in improving the game.



There are only 2 explanations to this kind of comment. Either it's translated wrong or mr.Yoshida is high and wasted while writing this.


Very valid concern...or that they are using an alternative definition in that a patch is a "container" for software functionality of any type and that anything in said patch are the 'content' or 'contents' of the patch.


Yeah, back when people first started saying "We need content!", I expressed a concern of "When we say 'content', and SE says 'content', are we talking about the same thing here?"

I've used this example before:

Windower - A program that allows us to alt tab and use plugins
What we asked SE: We want a Windower.
What SE gave us: The [clunky] ability to play in a Window. Still can't alt-tab. Still no plug-ins.

If you ask SE for a million bucks, you are more likely to get trampled by a bunch of deer than become rich.

So I'm strongly believing that SE does not understand content on the same level we are trying to infer it. Perhaps, to them, holiday events and bells are "content", or more recipes are "content".

The only "content" in the game right now is NMs and guildleves. And I'm sure that some would argue that they don't consider one or either of these to be "content".

The question is: If we're asking for content, and SE doesn't know what we want when we ask for "content", how many patches are we going to get without "content" before someone at SE figures out: "Hey, they're still unhappy. Maybe we need to ask for a little clarification here?" and actually begins implementing -content- in the way we want to see it.
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