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ZAM forums vs. Loadstone forums?Follow

#1 Feb 28 2011 at 12:54 PM Rating: Good
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If I read correctly, Loadstone will be hosting their very own player forums. I'm wondering if the nature of these forums will be such that they will deprecate the ZAM forums. I would assume that the average poster will likewise assume that their voice might be heard more clearly (and loudly) by posting on the Loadstone forums vs here.

Perhaps most of you aren't strict creatures of habit like myself. I tend to only go to one place and get stuck in a rut. Do most of you plan on regularly visiting both ZAM and the new Loadstone forums?

#2 Feb 28 2011 at 1:08 PM Rating: Excellent
As both a player and poster, I really only plan on visiting the Lodestone forums to see what the devs/community team are saying.

I already know what their general forums are going to be like. I'll be avoiding that at all costs.
#3 Feb 28 2011 at 1:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Preview of what the forums will be like:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/984270/
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#4 Feb 28 2011 at 1:14 PM Rating: Default
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Quanta wrote:
Preview of what the forums will be like:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/984270/

Sounds like they're going to be very active, with new players and veterans alike.
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#5 Feb 28 2011 at 1:24 PM Rating: Good
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Or very active, with new whiners and old whiners alike =p I think that's the joke they were making, anyways.
#6 Feb 28 2011 at 1:26 PM Rating: Decent
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If you were to judge by the official forums, WoW could be considered a dead game lol.

Like Osarion said, I go there to look for developer comments. Poor folk don't know what they're getting themselves into. Although I guess the Japanese forum won't be as... rough on the edges.
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#7 Feb 28 2011 at 1:31 PM Rating: Good
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In my experience, official game forums are almost always poorly regulated and as such end up full of nothing but trolls. Much worse than the zam forums were around release. If they are anything like the official beta forums were, and there is reason to believe that they will be, I will be staying far far away.
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#8 Feb 28 2011 at 1:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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I will visit both. It will be interesting to see how the forums change over time. I'm thinking over a 5 year span both forums will change dramatically.
#9 Feb 28 2011 at 1:46 PM Rating: Good
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Final Fantasy players are generally more on the nerd side, willing to put up maths discussions and the likes.. I think the official forum might become a great tool if handled correctly.
#10 Feb 28 2011 at 1:47 PM Rating: Good
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I will probably visit both. The lodestone will be interesting to see how the forums turn out and how active devs and whoever else answer and post to one another their responses. I will still come to ZAM too because there is some information here that you can't get from the lodestone.
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#11 Feb 28 2011 at 1:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Eeri wrote:
Final Fantasy players are generally more on the nerd side, willing to put up maths discussions and the likes.. I think the official forum might become a great tool if handled correctly.


You've never been to ElitistJerks, have you? :P
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Don't play that game anymore. :P
#12 Feb 28 2011 at 1:50 PM Rating: Good
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I will be supporting the arrangement regardless of the trolls. I'm not going to let a bunch of belligerent half-wits...let me rephrase, no-wits, have any sort of influence over my actions and/or emotions. I refuse to bend over and let them shove the proverbial pineapple up my ****. Unknowingly making me avoid something I would like to partake in is just as bad as telling me to stop doing something I enjoy. LET THE BATTLE BEGIN!!!

Edited, Feb 28th 2011 2:51pm by AtryxEtair
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#13 Feb 28 2011 at 2:02 PM Rating: Decent
If I read it right only players of the game will be able to post, a good thing sorta (well it'll be better once it's pay to play except for the F This I'm leaving posts).

So communities like ZAM, with moderation, will be able to report to the devs what the folks who may want to play the game but refuse to or can't want/expect.

I don't expect walk throughs and guides on the lodestone. I expect it to be somewhat similar to the EVE forums. Mostly build guides and random threads from the creators with very limited interaction due to language barrier. If they can pull it off ala EVE then sites like ZAM will flourish.

The big instant gratification news goes to lodestone. The in depth interviews with fleshed out explanations of said news goes to community sites.

The best info I got while playing EVE was links to community/fan sites.
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#14 Feb 28 2011 at 2:18 PM Rating: Good
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Quanta wrote:
Eeri wrote:
Final Fantasy players are generally more on the nerd side, willing to put up maths discussions and the likes.. I think the official forum might become a great tool if handled correctly.


You've never been to ElitistJerks, have you? :P


Nope xD
I mean the Official Forums might make it easier for us to show SE that we probabily know their games' mechanics better then them xD
#15 Feb 28 2011 at 2:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Eeri wrote:
Quanta wrote:
Eeri wrote:
Final Fantasy players are generally more on the nerd side, willing to put up maths discussions and the likes.. I think the official forum might become a great tool if handled correctly.


You've never been to ElitistJerks, have you? :P


Nope xD
I mean the Official Forums might make it easier for us to show SE that we probabily know their games' mechanics better then them xD


Perhaps. More than likely, however, is that most theorycrafting will get lost in a deluge of noise from people ******** and complaining about other **** while other people try and suck up to SE and zealously defend their every action.
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Maglyn - 81 Gnome Protection Warrior - <Flaming Bunnies>


Don't play that game anymore. :P
#16 Feb 28 2011 at 2:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Gather around fireplace kids, it's storytime!

*Opens the book of WoW*
WoW has official forums. In the beginning the developers wanted to interact with the players. The players felt like their voices were being heard and more and more thought they owned the game. Demanding stuff, fights in threads with Blizzard employees, drama over and over. And then there was silence(from Blizzard's end). The players raged, huffed and puffed and raged some more and grew tired. The forums you see today are just a ruins of something that once was, no flavor, bland. THE END
*Closes the book of WoW and throws it away in the fireplace*
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#17 Feb 28 2011 at 2:42 PM Rating: Good
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RedGalka wrote:
Gather around fireplace kids, it's storytime!

*Opens the book of WoW*
WoW has official forums. In the beginning the developers wanted to interact with the players. The players felt like their voices were being heard and more and more thought they owned the game. Demanding stuff, fights in threads with Blizzard employees, drama over and over. And then there was silence(from Blizzard's end). The players raged, huffed and puffed and raged some more and grew tired. The forums you see today are just a ruins of something that once was, no flavor, bland. THE END
*Closes the book of WoW and throws it away in the fireplace*

WoW isn't the only game with forums like this. You've just described every official game forum I've ever read.
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#18 Feb 28 2011 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
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No offense to the ZAM team and as refreshing as these forums are, I hope that the FFXIV official forms are less strict than the ZAM ones.

The WOW forums contain some excellent discussions with the devs and community reps (and a ton of idiotic posts), which I feel would happen a lot less on a stricter forum. I can take the flood of idiots if I can see some good dev/rep posts several times per week like the WOW forums.
#19 Feb 28 2011 at 3:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Wolfums wrote:
No offense to the ZAM team and as refreshing as these forums are, I hope that the FFXIV official forms are less strict than the ZAM ones.

The WOW forums contain some excellent discussions with the devs and community reps (and a ton of idiotic posts), which I feel would happen a lot less on a stricter forum. I can take the flood of idiots if I can see some good dev/rep posts several times per week like the WOW forums.


The only thing that's going to make me sad is that, unless Yoshi-P is fluent in English, we'll never get to interact with him in a direct fashion, like the old days of WoW with Ghostcrawler.
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Maglyn - 81 Gnome Protection Warrior - <Flaming Bunnies>


Don't play that game anymore. :P
#20 Feb 28 2011 at 3:23 PM Rating: Decent
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When I was active in 11, I used three different Forums. With 14, I have only monitored Zam. I can differently see going to both places for information. Just hoping that there is something more to post about than updates and future speculation.
#21 Feb 28 2011 at 4:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wolfums wrote:
No offense to the ZAM team and as refreshing as these forums are, I hope that the FFXIV official forms are less strict than the ZAM ones.

The WOW forums contain some excellent discussions with the devs and community reps (and a ton of idiotic posts), which I feel would happen a lot less on a stricter forum. I can take the flood of idiots if I can see some good dev/rep posts several times per week like the WOW forums.


I'm having a hard time figuring out how Zam's forums are "strict".
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#22 Feb 28 2011 at 4:31 PM Rating: Decent
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
I'm having a hard time figuring out how Zam's forums are "strict".


Because responsible Scholars and above nuke irresponsible posts?
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#23 Feb 28 2011 at 4:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Maybe I'm just burned by SE in general, but I'm seeing this as another means to ignore their players instead of a place for them to conveniently listen to player feedback. These guys worked very closely with the community sites back in the FFXI days, and yet still bugs didn't get fixed, jobs weren't balanced, and player outcry was met with silence. There was even a SE Community Rep user who posted on the FFXI ZAM forums like 5 times total.

This promise of more communication is a very tall order from a company that has set a reputation for under-delivering. I'm hopeful, but very wary of promises so far. Yoshi-P has made progress, but I'm waiting to see him deliver on the promises.
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#24 Feb 28 2011 at 4:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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PerrinofSylph, ****** Superhero wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
I'm having a hard time figuring out how Zam's forums are "strict".


Because responsible Scholars and above nuke irresponsible posts?


And irresponsible Scholars and above nuke responsible posts that they simple disagree with.

But regardless of whether you think the karma system is working as intended or broken, if you set your default post rating to show all posts, then the green and red arrows don't mean anything.

I very very rarely see admins lock or nuke a thread that I think didn't deserve it. If anything, I've seen plenty of posts and threads that I'm surprised don't get locked, especially when you consider some other FFXIV forums which are way more strict in terms of nuking anything they don't want to see or hear.
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#25 Feb 28 2011 at 5:05 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:

I'm having a hard time figuring out how Zam's forums are "strict".

Same, there's a lot that goes on here that definitely would not fly on any forums I've run .
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#26 Mar 01 2011 at 1:52 AM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Wolfums wrote:
No offense to the ZAM team and as refreshing as these forums are, I hope that the FFXIV official forms are less strict than the ZAM ones.

The WOW forums contain some excellent discussions with the devs and community reps (and a ton of idiotic posts), which I feel would happen a lot less on a stricter forum. I can take the flood of idiots if I can see some good dev/rep posts several times per week like the WOW forums.


I'm having a hard time figuring out how Zam's forums are "strict".


This.

Zam runs one of the least strict gaming forums I've seen. What rules they do have here are generally enforced fairly and equitably. Some, if not most, of the admin post here just to say something they're thinking -- not in any official capacity. ****, I like the site enough to actually whitelist it for AdBlock. There are very few sites that I'm willing to do that for.


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#27 Mar 01 2011 at 1:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm having a hard time figuring out how Zam's forums are "strict".


It's Pikko's fault... she's scary!
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#28 Mar 01 2011 at 2:06 AM Rating: Excellent
Thayos wrote:
Quote:
I'm having a hard time figuring out how Zam's forums are "strict".


It's Pikko's fault... she's scary!


You fool! Now she's onto us!

Oh hey Pikko, how's it... what's that power drill f... omg run Thayos!
#29 Mar 01 2011 at 9:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Once the Lodestone Board goes live I'm outta here!
I may check for "good" info every now and then, but I expect the good info to be posted on the Lodestone Board as well...so meh.
#30 Mar 01 2011 at 10:51 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm actually hoping that the official forums will take in all the cryers, haters and whinners..

Maybe the ZAM forum will then retain the constructive critics (whether positive or negative) and actual information provided by the comunity. If "Ask the Devs" and FFXI is anything to go by (and I'm not saying it is with Yoshi-P at the helm) 99% of usefull information in regards FFXIV will still come from the comunity!
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#31 Mar 01 2011 at 3:59 PM Rating: Default
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Hugus wrote:
I'm actually hoping that the official forums will take in all the cryers, haters and whinners..

Maybe the ZAM forum will then retain the constructive critics (whether positive or negative) and actual information provided by the comunity. If "Ask the Devs" and FFXI is anything to go by (and I'm not saying it is with Yoshi-P at the helm) 99% of usefull information in regards FFXIV will still come from the comunity!


To be honest, I'm expecting it to be the other way around. Lodestone should and probably will have the most constructive critic compiled, simply because it's an official board which is read and responded to by the developers and/or people who compile the ufesul stuff for the developers. So the lodestone board will be the only viable way of knowing your voice is heard.

So I'd rather have the whiners, haters and everyone close to that stay here and let the "good" people go to the lodestone board.
#32 Mar 01 2011 at 5:01 PM Rating: Good
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No contest for me I hate using my token to enter a site for scraps when I can get the same if not better info at ZAM with one click.
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#33 Mar 01 2011 at 5:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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If its anything like the EU beta forums, it wont be so bad.
However I'm told the US ones got quite messy towards the end.

The problem is, those forums had absolutely NO moderation at all, they didn't even seem to care about people openly discussing small tweak hacks like windower, hardware mouse enabling and ****, even they even ignored it when people started discussing the soundtrack which got leaked.

From what Yoshi says, it'll be different though I hope, I just pray we don't have to wait over a day for translations every time a developer posts something

It's probably definately not gonna have much of a social aspect to it, there'll probably be a lack of "fun and whitty" threads that you see here, leaving ZAM almost untouched as far as page-hits are concerned.

I can't see it being that bad though really. If this were still the old SE, then yes I'd have every doubt that these forums would be pointless, but today I have so much more hope.
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#34 Mar 01 2011 at 7:28 PM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
If you were to judge by the official forums, WoW could be considered a dead game lol.

Like Osarion said, I go there to look for developer comments. Poor folk don't know what they're getting themselves into. Although I guess the Japanese forum won't be as... rough on the edges.


You meant it won't turn into... 2chan?
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#35 Mar 02 2011 at 2:01 PM Rating: Good
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ZAM Pros:
-Surprisingly reasonable admins: I've seen some admins on other sites who redefine "terror".
-Site loads quickly.

ZAM Cons:
-Zealous FFXIV "fans" who make life **** for people trying to suggest game improvements.
-Karma system allows for the hive-mind mentality to snuff out unpopular ideas.

I'd frankly take trolls over mock-fans because they're easier to spot and easier to deal with. There's nothing worse than suggesting something that will universally improve the game for everyone who plays it (like faster load times) and being told that it's "not that bad" and to "deal with it".
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#36 Mar 02 2011 at 2:26 PM Rating: Excellent
TheRealDestian wrote:
ZAM Pros:
-Surprisingly reasonable admins: I've seen some admins on other sites who redefine "terror".
-Site loads quickly.

ZAM Cons:
-Zealous FFXIV "fans" who make life **** for people trying to suggest game improvements.
-Karma system allows for the hive-mind mentality to snuff out unpopular ideas.

I'd frankly take trolls over mock-fans because they're easier to spot and easier to deal with. There's nothing worse than suggesting something that will universally improve the game for everyone who plays it (like faster load times) and being told that it's "not that bad" and to "deal with it".


Try not to get too discouraged Destian. There is a visible turn-over in people who actually come to post on an almost weekly bases. Even when someone disagrees with a suggestion you make, and even if that rate you down, that idea still gets out there. The same person may come back a few weeks later talking about how it's a great idea and they should have implemented it that way at release. I know I am guilty of this and will be again!

According to the Views column, for every 1 poster who responds, about 20 people have read your idea.

Letting the karma system quell inspiration is counter productive, possibly the best argument against the system itself. I do find the validation of the Excellent rating to be as equally supportive as the rate-downs are discouraging. Not to mention those who rate for no reason without a care for the topic.

Basically, keep the ideas coming TheRealDestian. Thoughtful posts such as yours are the biggest draw to the site. Reasonable posters can disagree and still rate you up for bringing up a good point.

Let's hope the posters that have the most to offer in terms of stimulating discussions remain as FFXIV moves forwrd.
#37 Mar 02 2011 at 4:16 PM Rating: Good
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Shezard wrote:
Hugus wrote:
I'm actually hoping that the official forums will take in all the cryers, haters and whinners..

Maybe the ZAM forum will then retain the constructive critics (whether positive or negative) and actual information provided by the comunity. If "Ask the Devs" and FFXI is anything to go by (and I'm not saying it is with Yoshi-P at the helm) 99% of usefull information in regards FFXIV will still come from the comunity!


To be honest, I'm expecting it to be the other way around. Lodestone should and probably will have the most constructive critic compiled, simply because it's an official board which is read and responded to by the developers and/or people who compile the ufesul stuff for the developers. So the lodestone board will be the only viable way of knowing your voice is heard.

So I'd rather have the whiners, haters and everyone close to that stay here and let the "good" people go to the lodestone board.

And that's exactly why there will still be "whiners, haters and everyone close" there. Anyone playing the game who wants to feel like SE is hearing their concerns or complaints will be there. There will be drama and conflict and everything else that's presently here.
#38 Mar 02 2011 at 4:18 PM Rating: Good
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Currently, I plan to stay on Zam and just lurk on the lodestone forums

If I have to use my security token to log into the official forums, then I won't even be doing that.
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#39 Mar 02 2011 at 5:11 PM Rating: Excellent
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Currently, I plan to stay on Zam and just lurk on the lodestone forums

If I have to use my security token to log into the official forums, then I won't even be doing that.


IIRC with their beta forums, you did have to log in with your Square Enix Account. However, you could save the username/password fields and just have to enter your 1 time password (which beats having to type in a username/password I guess). However you're probably going to have to log in for each session, knowing SE's zealotry regarding account security. Which isn't an entirely bad thing.
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