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I'd welcome class name changes and roles...Follow

#1 Mar 01 2011 at 3:09 PM Rating: Decent
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I remember there being some general ire toward the notion of having the class names changed.

Personally, I'd welcome this. I'm not even a FF fan, but even I can identify the iconic classes that have been around since the beginning of the franchise.

What are people's thoughts on class renaming and potential sweeping changes to abilities and roles?
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#2 Mar 01 2011 at 3:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've grown used to the classes as they are, but I don't really care if they rename and/or swap abilities around.
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#3 Mar 01 2011 at 3:16 PM Rating: Good
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I wouldn't have had any problems with the names if they had set FFXIV in Ivalice, since they're the names for classes used in the FFTA series. Throwing them into Eorzea seems like they were trying to be different for the sake of being different.
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#4 Mar 01 2011 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
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I wouldn't mind that much.

They are "ok" as they are now, but I think more familiar names might make a more familiar game? I might prefer a more familiar game as far as class names.

Edit:
As far as abilities, I wouldn't mind too much. I'm holding off on leveling for quests and seeing what changes do take place. But, I'm sure a lot of other people would have some anger towards it.

Edited, Mar 1st 2011 4:24pm by SplatterPattern
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#5 Mar 01 2011 at 3:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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I like them as is. I think I would be a bit put off if names and abilities were changed around. That is just me though. I am sure many are like you who would welcome changes.
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#6 Mar 01 2011 at 3:35 PM Rating: Good
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I like them as is. I think I would be a bit put off if names and abilities were changed around. That is just me though. I am sure many are like you who would welcome changes.


It shouldn't be so strictly subjective. That means the change is as good as nothing in the long run.

That only applies to Western audience though, the Japanese names are objectively much worse than what Yoshida's come up with. So it's not a completely useless change.
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#7 Mar 01 2011 at 3:37 PM Rating: Decent
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I like everything how it is I just wish they would tweak or fix the underperforming abilities. There are roles in he game already. Tank, dd, healer. They are further broken down into evade tank, MIT tank, and what should be a parry based tank; evade an parry tanks aren't working. Dd could be melds dps, magic dps, physical ranged; these also aren working right as far as I'm concerned.

Why do people have to be told what to do and how to play? Freedom to design your own character is a good thing.
#8 Mar 01 2011 at 3:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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I wonder what monster size adjustment will mean :3

I'll be a sad owl if they get downsize Great Buffalo. Hopefully they'll make some of the lowlevel mobs bigger.
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#9 Mar 01 2011 at 3:41 PM Rating: Decent
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levelxplane wrote:
I wonder what monster size adjustment will mean :3

I'll be a sad owl if they get downsize Great Buffalo. Hopefully they'll make some of the lowlevel mobs bigger.





That would be cool.
#10 Mar 01 2011 at 4:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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If they want to keep some of the names, or make some new names for advanced jobs, I don't mind, but I think any FF needs a WHM BLM perhaps RDM, PLD. I would be in favor of changing the names and perhaps defining the abilities/roles a little more.
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#11 Mar 01 2011 at 4:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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I haven't played any other FF games, but I don't mind the idea of them changing the class. I am a little leery of changes to the actual abilities/roles that may accompany name changes, though. This will be especially prickly for the mage classes, I feel, as neither one really fits well into any of the classic FF Mage roles.

That's not to say that the mage classes couldn't be changed and still be equally good/useful as they were before. It is just that there's potential for people to suddenly be stuck having leveled a class that turned into something that they didn't want to play as. For example, I like being a healer, and am a THM. If THM becomes Black Mage, will I still be a great healer? And if CON became, say, White Mage, what about the CON's that chose the class to be awesome nukers? I will try to be open minded though. ^^

(I'm not overly familiar with the classic FF mage types, so these are just examples; my apologies if I have my mages mixed up lol)
#12 Mar 01 2011 at 6:51 PM Rating: Good
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I don't remember any characters in VI, VII, VIII, X, XII, XIII are called WHM/BLM/PLD/RDM etc. Performing the role, yes, being named as such, no. Name change, is it really necessary?
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#13 Mar 01 2011 at 7:32 PM Rating: Good
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I think at this point, actually changing class names would be a waste of time. The only reason for even changing class names would be to pretty much appeal to the FF franchise base in general, and from what I've read alot of them think there's bigger fish to fry...

In alot of past FFs, there have been either distinguishing classes or schools of magic (i.e. "black magic", "white magic", "blue magic", etc.). However, this game, like some other FFs, have broken this mold by not really specificly referring to magic as classified by a school... there's just "Thaumaturge" and "Conjurer." I hope that if they decide to introduce a new Wizard-style class, it will somehow be its own entity (or at least have some awesome magical-oriented tools to compliment well).

Edited, Mar 1st 2011 8:37pm by Verecund
#14 Mar 01 2011 at 7:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Khornette wrote:
I don't remember any characters in VI, VII, VIII, X, XII, XIII are called WHM/BLM/PLD/RDM etc. Performing the role, yes, being named as such, no. Name change, is it really necessary?


If you'd name the roles after those games then you'd get names like; Allround Main Guy (Cloud,Squall etc.) Older Badass Dude (Barrett,Auron,Balthier), Teenage Girly Girl (Rikku,Penelo) and No Way Those Are Real (Tifa,Lulu) :p
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#15 Mar 01 2011 at 11:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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MensoMicona wrote:
Khornette wrote:
I don't remember any characters in VI, VII, VIII, X, XII, XIII are called WHM/BLM/PLD/RDM etc. Performing the role, yes, being named as such, no. Name change, is it really necessary?


If you'd name the roles after those games then you'd get names like; Allround Main Guy (Cloud,Squall etc.) Older Badass Dude (Barrett,Auron,Balthier), Teenage Girly Girl (Rikku,Penelo) and No Way Those Are Real (Tifa,Lulu) :p


You forgot the I Can Tell She's Evil Because She Wears Black And Has A Shower Curtain Attached To Her Back from VIII

Obviously people have trouble with SE trying to balance the game by making the classes have different roles. I just think people who complain are very short sighted because even if their leveled class changes it's going to make the game a lot more balanced and better for everyone on the long run.

I'm a MAR and I wouldn't mind if every single skill was adjusted or changed. When I play my LNC class or PUG they all feel exactly the same.

In XI I'm starting to lvl new classes just because I might enjoy the difference they bring to gameplay. XIV classes blur into approximately two classes when it comes to gameplay. The physical and mage classes. While I'm at it I might add that crafting feels like 2 classes too. Well at least to me they do.
#16 Mar 01 2011 at 11:41 PM Rating: Default
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Could always stay in Xi, just sayin' brah.
#17 Mar 01 2011 at 11:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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seiferdincht wrote:
I'm a MAR and I wouldn't mind if every single skill was adjusted or changed. When I play my LNC class or PUG they all feel exactly the same.

In XI I'm starting to lvl new classes just because I might enjoy the difference they bring to gameplay. XIV classes blur into approximately two classes when it comes to gameplay. The physical and mage classes. While I'm at it I might add that crafting feels like 2 classes too. Well at least to me they do.
I have all battlecraft classes at 25 (Archer at 38), and I don't feel the same way.

Pugilist makes me feel like an evasive damage dealer, Lancer lets me make melee attacks at a further range, Gladiator feels like a tank to me, and Archer obviously gives a very different feel.

I'm concerned about Marauder, as its main aspect (imo) is the fact that is has so many close range, conal abilities. And yet, the game doesn't reward you for using them unless you're fighting groups during a leve.

Thaumaturge and Conjurer could definitely use work on specialization though.

Edited, Mar 1st 2011 10:57pm by Kirby
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#18 Mar 02 2011 at 1:42 AM Rating: Good
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Kirby the Eccentric wrote:
seiferdincht wrote:
I'm a MAR and I wouldn't mind if every single skill was adjusted or changed. When I play my LNC class or PUG they all feel exactly the same.

In XI I'm starting to lvl new classes just because I might enjoy the difference they bring to gameplay. XIV classes blur into approximately two classes when it comes to gameplay. The physical and mage classes. While I'm at it I might add that crafting feels like 2 classes too. Well at least to me they do.
I have all battlecraft classes at 25 (Archer at 38), and I don't feel the same way.

Pugilist makes me feel like an evasive damage dealer, Lancer lets me make melee attacks at a further range, Gladiator feels like a tank to me, and Archer obviously gives a very different feel.

I'm concerned about Marauder, as its main aspect (imo) is the fact that is has so many close range, conal abilities. And yet, the game doesn't reward you for using them unless you're fighting groups during a leve.

Thaumaturge and Conjurer could definitely use work on specialization though.

Edited, Mar 1st 2011 10:57pm by Kirby


Well if these three classes were jobs in XI everybody would cry bloody mary because they're the same class and no ifs or buts would justify their cheapness.

It's all relative. in XIV they might appear different because the weapons and animations look different but the gameplay and strategy are exactly the same (hit 1 until the key breaks).

If you compare a THF to a PUP or a BRD or a BST or a BLM or you name it, the way you approach battles is completely different figuratively and literally speaking.

Also the mix of JOBs in a XI pt makes every pt experience slightly different as you have to consider the hate, mp/tp consumption rates, the def stat differences, the buffs and debuffs other characters can do or have on at the time and so forth.

Note that I'm not saying they should copy those exact features to make the battles and classes of XIV interesting and fun but there should be at least the same amount of depth to make the masses keep playing.

No matter how casual of a player one is, if there's nothing new to learn about the intricacies of the mechanics then they probably aren't willing to stay in the shallow end of the kiddie pool forever.

How many times have you milked a cow in Farmville until you realized that's all there is to it?
#19 Mar 02 2011 at 1:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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seiferdincht wrote:
It's all relative. in XIV they might appear different because the weapons and animations look different but the gameplay and strategy are exactly the same (hit 1 until the key breaks).
I'm really starting to hate people who mention the dreaded "1" key.
I have never felt like I only press one key during battles, unless you count the first 10 or so levels on most jobs. But that's too be expected, really.
FFXI wasn't much better in that regard.

seiferdincht wrote:
If you compare a THF to a PUP or a BRD or a BST or a BLM or you name it, the way you approach battles is completely different figuratively and literally speaking.
I feel the same way about the Classes (I don't know why that bugs you so much) in FFXIV.

On Pugilist, I'm trying to not take damage at all by evading attacks, and returning Haymakers, while debuffing mobs with things like Concussive Blow and Moonrise.
On Gladiator, I'm making sure my shield is always up, and taking full advantage of Phalanx. Curing myself when Aegis Boon is active.
On Archer, I aim to make fights as short as possible, taking advantage of Archer's massive spike damage.
On Lancer, it's all about the TP generation, Stamina use, and what weaponskills you use when you have the TP built up.
On Marauder, honestly, it just feels like I have a lot of HP, and can do AoE damage sometimes. I don't feel particularly special using this class.


That's not to say I don't want improvements and further specialization for the classes we have; I just don't see this massive lack of differentiation that I've seen others talk about.
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#20 Mar 02 2011 at 2:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Even if it was strictly cosmetic, I would welcome the name changes in a heart beat. Pugilist? Wheres my boxing gloves and ring? Gladiator? I guess that will be more apt when we get to use the Colosseum and have to fight other people... and maybe lions.

Dunno, not going to brow beat this but as aforementioned I would welcome changes with open arms by a simplistic measure (name changes) and more substantial ones that actually make the roles (mage and combat) more unique. A name is a name? Not sure one can fairly say that so dismissively since sadly (and I don't say this sardonically)the game is living mostly off its Final Fantasy name right now.

It would help - if even just a little.
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#21 Mar 02 2011 at 2:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kirby the Eccentric wrote:
seiferdincht wrote:
It's all relative. in XIV they might appear different because the weapons and animations look different but the gameplay and strategy are exactly the same (hit 1 until the key breaks).
I'm really starting to hate people who mention the dreaded "1" key.
I have never felt like I only press one key during battles, unless you count the first 10 or so levels on most jobs. But that's too be expected, really.
FFXI wasn't much better in that regard.

seiferdincht wrote:
If you compare a THF to a PUP or a BRD or a BST or a BLM or you name it, the way you approach battles is completely different figuratively and literally speaking.
I feel the same way about the Classes (I don't know why that bugs you so much) in FFXIV.

On Pugilist, I'm trying to not take damage at all by evading attacks, and returning Haymakers, while debuffing mobs with things like Concussive Blow and Moonrise.
On Gladiator, I'm making sure my shield is always up, and taking full advantage of Phalanx. Curing myself when Aegis Boon is active.
On Archer, I aim to make fights as short as possible, taking advantage of Archer's massive spike damage.
On Lancer, it's all about the TP generation, Stamina use, and what weaponskills you use when you have the TP built up.
On Marauder, honestly, it just feels like I have a lot of HP, and can do AoE damage sometimes. I don't feel particularly special using this class.


That's not to say I don't want improvements and further specialization for the classes we have; I just don't see this massive lack of differentiation that I've seen others talk about.



Now that you mention it you only press one button to do all actions in XI too. Well at least if you're a controller user.I guess that's just semantics as I think it's the lack of tactics people refer to by mentioning that. (at least I do)

My "problem" is that while what you mentioned about the difference of XIV classes sounds all well and good on paper I don't feel it in the game. At all.

Once again I'd like to mention that it's all relative. Sure they have differences but I guess what I should have said is they're not different enough to make any substantial difference to gameplay.
#22 Mar 02 2011 at 3:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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seiferdincht wrote:
Now that you mention it you only press one button to do all actions in XI too. Well at least if you're a controller user.I guess that's just semantics as I think it's the lack of tactics people refer to by mentioning that. (at least I do)

Once again I'd like to mention that it's all relative. Sure they have differences but I guess what I should have said is they're not different enough to make any substantial difference to gameplay.
I'll agree with you, for a different reason.

I really think it's a problem with the difficulty of encounters, not so much that classes are "too similar". If monsters weren't so laughably easy, or capable of two-shotting a player, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

On one hand, you need not do anything but your basic attack to win. On the other, you use more most effective, damaging abilities to quickly end fights. There is no balance when it comes to strategy at all right now.

Hopefully tweaks to monsters and the battle system will fix this, while they continue to work on touching up classes.
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#23 Mar 02 2011 at 5:07 AM Rating: Good
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I'd love name changes. I never could quite figure out what a Thaumaturge was supposed to be anyhow.

Regardless, all these strange abilities and weird-named spells really do not make it feel like a Final Fantasy game right now. I feel a lot of those names will have to be changed too.

And while we're at it. Roeg -> Galka, and Miqu'ote (however the crap you write that) -> Mithra.

I've gotten really tired of all the na'mes that were bro'ken up by an apostrophe ever since XIII :x There's no reason to name things diffirently for the same of being diffirent, if you use the same models, characters and monsters...
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#24 Mar 02 2011 at 5:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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"A Rose by any other name will smell as sweet" - Or something like that!

Name changes by themselves will do nothing to improve the game and as such should not really be looked into as the people that already play the game will always associate these classes to their original names even if they change (the names that is).

Changing the names and abilities will cause a whole lot of trouble as a lot of people ranked up specific classes for a specific ability or other and if it does happen that by chance SE changes/removes that ability which was the only reason for people to rank that class then uproar will erupt.

to me, the most viable option is to include the classic classes from FF as advanced classes and have this classes possess abilities which we are unable to use on other classes.

As an example, by either doing a quest or by getting CON and GLA to a certain rank your character is able to get the class PLD (Paladin). On PLD you are able to use any ability from basic classes so you should be able to use cure, protect, sentinel and so forth but in adition to it you also get access to abilities like Invencible or Blink which can only be used as PLD.

This would result in the classic classes/jobs making their appearance and finally get the uniqueness for each class (at least advanced/new ones)
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#25 Mar 02 2011 at 2:05 PM Rating: Decent
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seiferdincht wrote:
Note that I'm not saying they should copy those exact features to make the battles and classes of XIV interesting and fun but there should be at least the same amount of depth to make the masses keep playing.

No matter how casual of a player one is, if there's nothing new to learn about the intricacies of the mechanics then they probably aren't willing to stay in the shallow end of the kiddie pool forever.


Excellent points.

I personally don't feel like there's enough variety in the classes, and certainly not how they're played (aka mash 1 until the mob dies, heal if necessary).

Massive differences in how each class plays will only serve to lengthen the amount of time a player will spend playing the game as each class feels like a different experience then.
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#26 Mar 03 2011 at 3:40 AM Rating: Good
I'm just throwing this out there.

Is there any chance that we are just not fighting hard enough enemies? Surely someone has made a party with a bad *** 50 VIT/DEF Tank (I'm talking Capped VIT (174), Defender, Provoke, Taunt, Ward Drums. Punishing Barbs, Sentinel, etc. everything else an awesome tank would want) focused on enmity and shield usage, and a full variety of 50 DD/support/mages, maybe even one of every class, and gone looking for the single highest level mob that they could handle?

No way did the party I'm describing use basic attacks only. By definition, that is NOT the party I'm describing.

Would anyone care to describe how this went for you?
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