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Try this - change of attitudeFollow

#1 Mar 03 2011 at 10:13 AM Rating: Good
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I'm probably gonna go down in a flaming ball of rate-downs for this, but hear me out.

I tried a little experiment over the past week and didn't visit ZAM or any other discussion forums. My web use for FFXIV included only looking up recipes, NPC sale prices, and profiles and Yoshida's letters on Lodestone. I played alot this week, including getting 8 jobs to 20 or 30 and unlocking those level quests. I did the quests without guides, just exploring and actually reading the journal entries, and it was a blast. I partied, did a ton of behest, did a ton of leves with random strangers, fished, and crafted. Guess what? I had a tremendous amount of fun without the bias of what so many of you post here and elsewhere.

Today, I came back to the General Discussion forum to find the usual - nothing but ********* complaining, QQing, threats to quit, etc. Frankly, it disgusts me. It actually bothers me and makes me sad - technology is wonderful but the anonymity of the web has turned humanity into a bunch of whiners. Don't just look here for evidence, go anywhere there is a message board including major news websites and you'll see what I mean. SE will never win - many of you will complain about anything and everything. I look at Yoshida's letters and see that he is really trying (even if his humor is a little strange lol). I respect that. Keep in mind that he can't satisfy everyone, especially when different regions often have different criteria that we want.

So I'm out. Not from the game but from the forums. The game has its flaws, certainly, but alot of the stuff is minor and wouldn't have even bothered me if I hadn't come here and read a 3-page flamefest that only serves to remind me of the flaw and magnify it. My advice? Quit complaining, quit worrying about what everyone else is thinking, and just play the game. You might actually have a good time.
#2 Mar 03 2011 at 10:18 AM Rating: Good
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/Signed

This game can only get better. They'd have to try extremely hard to make it worse.

TBH Zam has always been like this.
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#3 Mar 03 2011 at 10:21 AM Rating: Decent
You touch on a good point. People will complain for the sake of complaining. If the apple is red, people will complain and say they want blue apples. After a while they decided to change apples to blue, and then all of a sudden people are saying "Blue apples are stupid. Apples have been red forever, why would you do such a thing!?"

Unfortunately, there is absolutely nothing that will ever change that.
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#4 Mar 03 2011 at 10:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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I've found that the Internet has only decreased my enjoyment of games, both MMOs and otherwise. I used to feel great about playing Final Fantasy, discovering as many secrets as I could, until after I beat it I check out forums and find people bragging about beating it without leveling any characters past 10 or something--then I don't feel quite so heroic.

With MMOs it's worse; take the most popular MMO on the planet, read about in the forums and you'd wonder why on earth anyone plays it--nothing but QQ 24/7/365. All of a sudden the game's flaws become abundantly apparent and difficult to ignore.

That was my experience with Aion. It was my first MMO, I loved it--until I started checking out the forums during work hours to get my fix. Then all I saw were complaints, and the problems with Aion just stuck out like a sore thumb every time I logged in. I felt like I was playing dead game (even though it still continues to make money AFAIK, and its expansion got decent reviews), so I gave it up for WoW.

Even in WoW, I was loving leveling my arcane mage until I checked out the mage forums and learned that my spec was dead with the latest patch. Then I read all the QQing about LFD queues for DPS players, the lack of endgame content, etc., and now I can hardly be bothered to log into WoW any more.

Now I'm pretty much just playing America's Army, at least until I start spending more time on its forums.
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#5 Mar 03 2011 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
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I'm really optimistic about the future of the game, especially with Senior Yoshi at the helm.

I was quite surprised when I first tried the game, based on the fact that I only had comments to go on from here and a couple of other sites. I picked it up for super cheap off of Amazon so it was more of a whim than a long-term commitment. That said I really enjoyed my time playing fairly casually and meeting lots of people.

Can't wait to see how things turn out in the next couple of months.
#6 Mar 03 2011 at 12:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, I come here looking for any news from Yoshi-P and to see if anything interesting or useful pops up, but the attitude is so bad that I visit less and less. It's a shame, because this site is a great resource - zam in general - but as with ANY forum, the people who can do nothing but complain (not constructively criticize but simply ***** ***** *****) make me avoid visiting with any regularity.
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#7 Mar 03 2011 at 1:36 PM Rating: Good
Loris wrote:
Today, I came back to the General Discussion forum to find the usual - nothing but ********* complaining, QQing, threats to quit, etc. Frankly, it disgusts me.


While I understand your point completely, there are some usefull tidbits to be found here.

For some reason, how Party SP is distributed is not nearly as popular a thread as the other threads you have mentioned. It's a mystery. I guess people enjoy complaining.

Your thread is actually more complaining. Complaining about complainers. It's a forum staple. No forum would be complete without it. Maybe you could try posting in this thread:

http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=152&mid=129825896925054776&page=1

This thread is about current FFXIV gameplay mechanics and attempts to provide useful information to players.

Perhaps the majority of people are not interested in the specifics regarding ranking up in FFXIV. Perhaps they do not need to know how to make an effective party, or would rather interpret the patch notes in their own way without the benefit of testing or experience.

Perhaps !'s and the possibility of future instanced content is a more pressing matter.

Next time you get fed up with the quality of post on ZAM, I would urge you post a quality thread of your own. This thread does not fit the bill, even though, once again, I completely agree with it's content.

Edited, Mar 3rd 2011 2:38pm by SmashingtonWho
#8 Mar 03 2011 at 1:38 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Guess what? I had a tremendous amount of fun without the bias of what so many of you post here and elsewhere.


I know I'm walking into the lions den here, but you touched a nerve with me, so by all means, gnash thy teeth, oh lions of the pit! I would say don't take it personally, but that would be dishonest of me, because my gripe here is with the very core of what you're saying, on almost all accounts, in your OP.

You can take your advice and shove it. Seriously. If people didn't enjoy the game, they wouldn't bother complaining about the things they dislike about it, right? They wouldn't care if things were improved or not, they'd just give up on it and go find something else to occupy their time.

What really ticks me off about your OP, though... change of attitude? What, you mean "smile till you feel better?" "Fake it till you make it?" "Lie to yourself and pretend everything's ok?"

Or just "shut up, you're bad vibes are messing with me?"

How arrogant of you. Downright narcissistic, to chastise others for their "biases" as if your own oppinions were somehow more objectively formed than the people you don't agree with.

Your skin is apparently so thin (by your own admission) that your moods and oppinions hinge on what other people are saying on an internet forum, but you're going to come here and admonish other people to quit worrying about what everyone else is saying?

You dislike all of the negative vibes, all of the complaining, all of the threats to quit. So naturally you come to make a post where you ***** about what you dislike, and even throw in an "I quite (from the forums)."

Your hubris astounds me. Good riddance.
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#9 Mar 03 2011 at 1:40 PM Rating: Good
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Agreed, I've been coming here less and less (mostly because of work) and have noticed the same thing. Nothing but negativity when I do read through the forums. Even in the face of such an exciting update as today's.

This game has improved vastly since beta, but the ******** and complaining has stayed about at the same level.
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#10 Mar 03 2011 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
EDIT: Providing some useful information is even more effective then complaining about the lack of it.



Edited, Mar 3rd 2011 3:15pm by SmashingtonWho
#11 Mar 03 2011 at 1:57 PM Rating: Default
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Yea, i think im gonna cut out ZAM from my bookmarks. Think i will stick with Loadstone and Official Forums when they come out next week. Will probably still read eorzeapedia and ffxivcore but at a lesser rate.
#12 Mar 03 2011 at 2:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'm probably gonna go down in a flaming ball of rate-downs for this, but hear me out.

I tried a little experiment over the past week and didn't visit ZAM or any other discussion forums. My web use for FFXIV included only looking up recipes, NPC sale prices, and profiles and Yoshida's letters on Lodestone. I played alot this week, including getting 8 jobs to 20 or 30 and unlocking those level quests. I did the quests without guides, just exploring and actually reading the journal entries, and it was a blast. I partied, did a ton of behest, did a ton of leves with random strangers, fished, and crafted. Guess what? I had a tremendous amount of fun without the bias of what so many of you post here and elsewhere.

Today, I came back to the General Discussion forum to find the usual - nothing but ********* complaining, QQing, threats to quit, etc. Frankly, it disgusts me. It actually bothers me and makes me sad - technology is wonderful but the anonymity of the web has turned humanity into a bunch of whiners. Don't just look here for evidence, go anywhere there is a message board including major news websites and you'll see what I mean. SE will never win - many of you will complain about anything and everything. I look at Yoshida's letters and see that he is really trying (even if his humor is a little strange lol). I respect that. Keep in mind that he can't satisfy everyone, especially when different regions often have different criteria that we want.

So I'm out. Not from the game but from the forums. The game has its flaws, certainly, but alot of the stuff is minor and wouldn't have even bothered me if I hadn't come here and read a 3-page flamefest that only serves to remind me of the flaw and magnify it. My advice? Quit complaining, quit worrying about what everyone else is thinking, and just play the game. You might actually have a good time.


I'm so sick of the chronic complaining you have no idea. You captured my sentiments entirely. Thank you for posting this.
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#13 Mar 03 2011 at 2:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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I am having trouble understanding how reading other peoples gripes about the game draw from your enjoyment. You can tell me DDO sucks all day long, I'm still going to play it. My personal tastes have precedent over anyone else's opinions.

These forums have been a TREMENDOUS help to me and my LS mates. And normally I dont contribute to complaining posts, but I felt like sharing. xD

If you let other peoples opinions bother your enjoyment of anything, you will be let down lots.
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#15 Mar 03 2011 at 4:32 PM Rating: Good
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lawl... 50% of people agree with OP, the other 50% complain about him. His point justified?
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#16 Mar 03 2011 at 4:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Your (OP) bit about doing the quests with only the journal as your guide got me.

I've never understood the QQ about needing more hints for quests in-game. I've done many job quests and all but the last available storyline with only the journal. When I say only the journal, I don't mean that I muddled through it, the journal and NPC linkpearls provided MORE than enough info.

I've ******* about more than my share of things I thought were not well designed, but that complaint always confused me.
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#17 Mar 03 2011 at 8:59 PM Rating: Good
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SabastianSeraph wrote:
TBH Internet has always been like this.


Fix'd
#18 Mar 03 2011 at 9:35 PM Rating: Decent
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It's the GIFT

EDIT: Actually it's not just "bad" games. It's everything. I've been to miniature wargames forum, FPS videogames forums, MMORPGS forums. If the demographic is male age 13-30, there will be complaint. I agree with OP that if you already enjoy your opinion and activity, you'll be better off not visiting forums. Like I recently picked up Battlefield: Bad Company 2, and the moment I go into the forums I see nothing but complaining (especially about snipers, apparently), so I give up and read only a few guide articles, then resume playing the game to my best ability.

We would like to come to forums because it's one of the first place for rumors and news, but sometimes the threads in the "General" topics are just beckoning. Or we're just bored and want something to read.

I'll try not visiting forums for a few weeks, and see what happens.

Edited, Mar 3rd 2011 10:43pm by Enfid
#19 Mar 03 2011 at 9:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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AkumaOokami wrote:
GailC wrote:
Quote:
Guess what? I had a tremendous amount of fun without the bias of what so many of you post here and elsewhere.


I know I'm walking into the lions den here, but you touched a nerve with me, so by all means, gnash thy teeth, oh lions of the pit! I would say don't take it personally, but that would be dishonest of me, because my gripe here is with the very core of what you're saying, on almost all accounts, in your OP.

You can take your advice and shove it. Seriously. If people didn't enjoy the game, they wouldn't bother complaining about the things they dislike about it, right? They wouldn't care if things were improved or not, they'd just give up on it and go find something else to occupy their time.

What really ticks me off about your OP, though... change of attitude? What, you mean "smile till you feel better?" "Fake it till you make it?" "Lie to yourself and pretend everything's ok?"

Or just "shut up, you're bad vibes are messing with me?"

How arrogant of you. Downright narcissistic, to chastise others for their "biases" as if your own oppinions were somehow more objectively formed than the people you don't agree with.

Your skin is apparently so thin (by your own admission) that your moods and oppinions hinge on what other people are saying on an internet forum, but you're going to come here and admonish other people to quit worrying about what everyone else is saying?

You dislike all of the negative vibes, all of the complaining, all of the threats to quit. So naturally you come to make a post where you ***** about what you dislike, and even throw in an "I quite (from the forums)."

Your hubris astounds me. Good riddance.


Antharl wrote:
I am having trouble understanding how reading other peoples gripes about the game draw from your enjoyment. You can tell me DDO sucks all day long, I'm still going to play it. My personal tastes have precedent over anyone else's opinions.

These forums have been a TREMENDOUS help to me and my LS mates. And normally I dont contribute to complaining posts, but I felt like sharing. xD

If you let other peoples opinions bother your enjoyment of anything, you will be let down lots.


Going into things with a positive attitude will actually make things more enjoyable. He/She has a point. You can be having a wonderful day and when some people come along with negativity it can put a damper on how you're feeling, you can look anywhere and find this.

But, it's very arrogant and narcissitic of you to tell him/her how to feel and act. Hypocrisy?

Though, you make a point, if the forums are bringing him/her down, then she shouldn't look at it, and that's exactly what she did, so your point is kind of moot. And to take a stab at someone who just renounced using the forums is just full of cowardice.
And yes, the forums are a TREMENDOUS help, like you said, however the complaining is a TREMENDOUS fail.
Complaining for reasonable things is acceptable, but most of the whining is about stuff that doesn't matter much to overall playability.
"ZOMG the NM has a FIFTY percent drop rate?! That's bullsh*t!"
No, you're QQing is bull.

i agree that while constant complaints dont help, this crying about an nm with a 50% drop rate made me laugh. I wish the people on these forums had things like drop rate to complain about. This would mean the game was healthy. However the complaints are almost all about core mechanics of the game, and the overall attitude of disliking them. A minority likes the game yes and you are all entitled to that, However most of the whining on these forums are justified, MOST NOT ALL. People say that the whiners are impeding on their fun, well frankly, the game is impeding on most of their fun. So i suppose by the minoritys logic they are the only ones aloud to have fun since they are the only ones who like the game.
#20 Mar 04 2011 at 12:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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thegalk wrote:
AkumaOokami wrote:
GailC wrote:
Quote:
Guess what? I had a tremendous amount of fun without the bias of what so many of you post here and elsewhere.


I know I'm walking into the lions den here, but you touched a nerve with me, so by all means, gnash thy teeth, oh lions of the pit! I would say don't take it personally, but that would be dishonest of me, because my gripe here is with the very core of what you're saying, on almost all accounts, in your OP.

You can take your advice and shove it. Seriously. If people didn't enjoy the game, they wouldn't bother complaining about the things they dislike about it, right? They wouldn't care if things were improved or not, they'd just give up on it and go find something else to occupy their time.

What really ticks me off about your OP, though... change of attitude? What, you mean "smile till you feel better?" "Fake it till you make it?" "Lie to yourself and pretend everything's ok?"

Or just "shut up, you're bad vibes are messing with me?"

How arrogant of you. Downright narcissistic, to chastise others for their "biases" as if your own oppinions were somehow more objectively formed than the people you don't agree with.

Your skin is apparently so thin (by your own admission) that your moods and oppinions hinge on what other people are saying on an internet forum, but you're going to come here and admonish other people to quit worrying about what everyone else is saying?

You dislike all of the negative vibes, all of the complaining, all of the threats to quit. So naturally you come to make a post where you ***** about what you dislike, and even throw in an "I quite (from the forums)."

Your hubris astounds me. Good riddance.


Antharl wrote:
I am having trouble understanding how reading other peoples gripes about the game draw from your enjoyment. You can tell me DDO sucks all day long, I'm still going to play it. My personal tastes have precedent over anyone else's opinions.

These forums have been a TREMENDOUS help to me and my LS mates. And normally I dont contribute to complaining posts, but I felt like sharing. xD

If you let other peoples opinions bother your enjoyment of anything, you will be let down lots.


Going into things with a positive attitude will actually make things more enjoyable. He/She has a point. You can be having a wonderful day and when some people come along with negativity it can put a damper on how you're feeling, you can look anywhere and find this.

But, it's very arrogant and narcissitic of you to tell him/her how to feel and act. Hypocrisy?

Though, you make a point, if the forums are bringing him/her down, then she shouldn't look at it, and that's exactly what she did, so your point is kind of moot. And to take a stab at someone who just renounced using the forums is just full of cowardice.
And yes, the forums are a TREMENDOUS help, like you said, however the complaining is a TREMENDOUS fail.
Complaining for reasonable things is acceptable, but most of the whining is about stuff that doesn't matter much to overall playability.
"ZOMG the NM has a FIFTY percent drop rate?! That's bullsh*t!"
No, you're QQing is bull.

i agree that while constant complaints dont help, this crying about an nm with a 50% drop rate made me laugh. I wish the people on these forums had things like drop rate to complain about. This would mean the game was healthy. However the complaints are almost all about core mechanics of the game, and the overall attitude of disliking them. A minority likes the game yes and you are all entitled to that, However most of the whining on these forums are justified, MOST NOT ALL. People say that the whiners are impeding on their fun, well frankly, the game is impeding on most of their fun. So i suppose by the minoritys logic they are the only ones aloud to have fun since they are the only ones who like the game.


There are plenty of XI NMs that I would -kill- to have a 50% drop rate on.
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#22 Mar 04 2011 at 3:17 AM Rating: Good
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Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
You touch on a good point. People will complain for the sake of complaining. If the apple is red, people will complain and say they want blue apples. After a while they decided to change apples to blue, and then all of a sudden people are saying "Blue apples are stupid. Apples have been red forever, why would you do such a thing!?"

Unfortunately, there is absolutely nothing that will ever change that.


Your analogy doesn't really apply in this case. It's not so much a matter of aesthetics as much as it is a matter of taste(content). I'd eat a puce apple if it tasted better than the blue or red apple. This is the same reason I haven't picked up FFXIV in 7 months. It's beautiful, but leaves a rather bad taste in my mouth.
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#23 Mar 04 2011 at 3:36 AM Rating: Decent
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There will always be an element of this on any forum, for FFXIV it's particularly bad atm (I notice is especially on Eorzeapedia forums - ZAM has always been *cough* quirky :p). Point is, until the population stabalises there will be a bunch of new FF MMO players coming in from playing other games and proclaiming that this game is sh*t compared to blah blah blah and then just stick around for the wind up. Most will go away eventually. As for the others, just ignore them (or play with them) until they get bored and sod off.
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