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#202 Mar 06 2011 at 11:10 AM Rating: Decent
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
Note: It's not very easy to make cutscenes in FFXIV. Especially with the new motion capture technology they're using. To expect them to do all of that in the 3-7 weeks they had to make these quests is a little unreasonable, in my opinion.


Note: A company like SE should have an entire team dedicated to creating content, way before they released they should have had at least an outline of future story missions etc etc. Considering they had at the least 6 month's, is very unreasonable to think that they been doing NOTHING! Considering how abysmal the patches have been <.<

During the rift beta, people asked if they could get a party system that would automatically party them up, if there was a rift in their area, next day TRON released a full public party system from the ground up, meanwhile 6 months later at SE .......


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#203 Mar 06 2011 at 11:46 AM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
Note: A company like SE should have an entire team dedicated to creating content, way before they released they should have had at least an outline of future story missions etc etc. Considering they had at the least 6 month's, is very unreasonable to think that they been doing NOTHING! Considering how abysmal the patches have been <.<

During the rift beta, people asked if they could get a party system that would automatically party them up, if there was a rift in their area, next day TRON released a full public party system from the ground up, meanwhile 6 months later at SE .......


This is an important point that is lost on your basic stimulus-response fanboy, and I'm not sure why other than to surmise that most fanboys just aren't that bright. Square Enix is one of the greatest gaming companies to have ever graced the face of the Earth, and they have done almost nothing over the past 6 months. My only guess is that they had to scrap content that would've otherwise been implemented by now because their game (which SE itself admits) was so @#%^ed up and (still) sucks ***.

Another key point to remember is that employees in the video game industry are notoriously underpaid and treated like garbage (overworked). SE, as FFXIV has proven, is no exception. And without concrete numbers on the cost of production, it would not surprise me if the pre-release production budget had been staggeringly low (and is probably still staggeringly low). It's a fact that the game was rushed and my theory is that Tanaka was steamrolled by an unreasonable deadline coupled with insufficient resources. We see the skeleton of a great game, but absolutely no content and ****-poor UI and lore development.

My pet theory is that Tanaka was a sacrificial lamb for the corporate blunders of SE and is a scapegoat. Additionally, Yoshi-P is a classic example of a brand name, or ad campaign, similar to those that are launched by political parties (Obama and McCain as brand names). It's all style over substance to lull the dissatisfied masses into complacency and is a classic example of Bernaysian propaganda. The fanboys buy it. I don't.

EDIT: Keep in mind, this Tanaka is THE Tanaka, the legendary force behind Secret of Mana and FFXI, among other glorious titles. The man knows how to ******* make video games.

Edited, Mar 6th 2011 12:49pm by HardHotThrobbingAetherite
#204 Mar 06 2011 at 11:55 AM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
UltKnightGrover wrote:
Note: It's not very easy to make cutscenes in FFXIV. Especially with the new motion capture technology they're using. To expect them to do all of that in the 3-7 weeks they had to make these quests is a little unreasonable, in my opinion.


Note: A company like SE should have an entire team dedicated to creating content, way before they released they should have had at least an outline of future story missions etc etc. Considering they had at the least 6 month's, is very unreasonable to think that they been doing NOTHING! Considering how abysmal the patches have been <.<

During the rift beta, people asked if they could get a party system that would automatically party them up, if there was a rift in their area, next day TRON released a full public party system from the ground up, meanwhile 6 months later at SE .......




Exactly, and I agree with the poster above as well you highlighted your post. What people seem to keep doing is making excuses about how it takes a long time to program the basic stuff people are asking for. These people who are saying that no nothing of programming honestly. The Rift team makes major changes in one day to party systems, battle mechanics, whatever the user base is asking for.

Yoshi-P's team improves the level up animation by making it bigger (lol) and decides to make the monsters laughably big as well. Maybe they are trying to compensate for something?

The fact is, what this dev team is getting done is close to nothing. It takes them an extremely long time to release "side" quests that are really a pathetic afterthought that can't be compared to any quest that was ever released in XI or WoW for that matter. What's amazing to me is that since this is really more like a beta since we're not paying for it, you think changes SE would want to test would be released on a daily basis for testing. This is how almost every company running an MMO (especially in Beta) does things - see Rift/EQ2/WoW. They should be releasing daily patches and then if something doesn't work they should remove or correct the issue, but we know how SE works and we wait for these twice a month updates. It's just getting old that these updates have little to nothing in way of improvements to the game, and rather include things no one ever wanted to begin with.
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#205 Mar 06 2011 at 12:01 PM Rating: Good
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I read someone say they have 100 people working on FFXIV now lol No way, there are probably less than 10 people working on the actual game code/updates now, it's impossible to think anything else with the laughable updates they push out.
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#206 Mar 06 2011 at 12:04 PM Rating: Good
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novaryu wrote:
Exactly, and I agree with the poster above as well you highlighted your post. What people seem to keep doing is making excuses about how it takes a long time to program the basic stuff people are asking for. These people who are saying that no nothing of programming honestly. The Rift team makes major changes in one day to party systems, battle mechanics, whatever the user base is asking for.

Yoshi-P's team improves the level up animation by making it bigger (lol) and decides to make the monsters laughably big as well. Maybe they are trying to compensate for something?

The fact is, what this dev team is getting done is close to nothing. It takes them an extremely long time to release "side" quests that are really a pathetic afterthought that can't be compared to any quest that was ever released in XI or WoW for that matter. What's amazing to me is that since this is really more like a beta since we're not paying for it, you think changes SE would want to test would be released on a daily basis for testing. This is how almost every company running an MMO (especially in Beta) does things - see Rift/EQ2/WoW. They should be releasing daily patches and then if something doesn't work they should remove or correct the issue, but we know how SE works and we wait for these twice a month updates. It's just getting old that these updates have little to nothing in way of improvements to the game, and rather include things no one ever wanted to begin with.


Well said, especially putting it into context by relating it to other (and in the case of Trion, drastically smaller) game companies. Does anyone know if hard numbers exist on the pre-release FFXIV production budget, or the resources and total number of game developers working on FFXIV?

So glad I uninstalled!
#207 Mar 06 2011 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
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preludes wrote:
I read someone say they have 100 people working on FFXIV now lol No way, there are probably less than 10 people working on the actual game code/updates now, it's impossible to think anything else with the laughable updates they push out.

I remember hearing from SE that it was basically now "all hands on deck," that they were pulling all this talent from other projects to help save this game.. This flagship title of this major company..

They ask us what we most want in polls, and many answer "Quests." Finally comes the "Sidequest" patch, where it's clear they could only come up with one idea in all this time.. The idea of killing 8 'new' quest mobs. People have said these quests aren't repeatable, but I beg to differ. Aside from the flavor text changing, it's the same quest given 15~ times.

If someone told me there has been one person working on this game's content (about 5 NMs and 15 Sidequests now since the game launched), I'd consider that believable. One.

Edited, Mar 6th 2011 1:51pm by Coyohma
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#208 Mar 06 2011 at 12:54 PM Rating: Good
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HardHotThrobbingAetherite wrote:

EDIT: Keep in mind, this Tanaka is THE Tanaka, the legendary force behind Secret of Mana and FFXI, among other glorious titles. The man knows how to @#%^ing make video games.

Edited, Mar 6th 2011 12:49pm by HardHotThrobbingAetherite


Some of those other glorious titles being Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross. I never understood the mudslinging that took place after Tanaka stepped down, especially considering his pedigree. It's not like it was his decision to release FFXIV in the state it was in.
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#209 Mar 06 2011 at 1:11 PM Rating: Good
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I see people are using my post out of context and trolling it/making conclusions that I'm a "fanboy", etc.

Honestly, I too did expect more out of these quests, just like everyone else. Am I disappointed that they didn't have even the slightest bit of cutscenes? Certainly. But I was making a point, cut-scenes aren't easy to create, especially in the small timeframe that they were given. Personally, I think they should have delayed the patch and give us a couple of CS's per quest. But I guess they assumed we wanted to give us quantity over quality.

Quest-wise, in September we were given quality over quantity, and people hated it. The storyline is great, but there's so little of it and so much grinding and dull content in between.

Now it's March, our voices of quests and content were heard, but now they're not quality.

What S-E needs to understand is we want quality AND quantity. The development team shouldn't be sacrificing one for the other or people are just going to complain about the other. We went from complaining to the lack of quantity to the lack of quality as far as the storyline is concerned.

But yeah, after making eleven great Final Fantasy titles and five poor ones, you think they would know by now that we like rich story-lines and memorable characters. Even side-quests in FFXI had memorable characters (Maat, that dude with the sheep in Selbina. General Zazarg!?) And FFXIV really lacks on these, sadly.


Edit: Now that I think about it, I feel like I'm playing a game of Twisted Metal. We wish for something, and we're given it, but in a massively different way that we would have liked it to be. And S-E is like some crazy Calypso.





Edited, Mar 6th 2011 11:14am by UltKnightGrover
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#210 Mar 06 2011 at 1:13 PM Rating: Decent
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HardHotThrobbingAetherite wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Note: A company like SE should have an entire team dedicated to creating content, way before they released they should have had at least an outline of future story missions etc etc. Considering they had at the least 6 month's, is very unreasonable to think that they been doing NOTHING! Considering how abysmal the patches have been <.<

During the rift beta, people asked if they could get a party system that would automatically party them up, if there was a rift in their area, next day TRON released a full public party system from the ground up, meanwhile 6 months later at SE .......


This is an important point that is lost on your basic stimulus-response fanboy, and I'm not sure why other than to surmise that most fanboys just aren't that bright. Square Enix is one of the greatest gaming companies to have ever graced the face of the Earth, and they have done almost nothing over the past 6 months. My only guess is that they had to scrap content that would've otherwise been implemented by now because their game (which SE itself admits) was so @#%^ed up and (still) sucks ***.

Another key point to remember is that employees in the video game industry are notoriously underpaid and treated like garbage (overworked). SE, as FFXIV has proven, is no exception. And without concrete numbers on the cost of production, it would not surprise me if the pre-release production budget had been staggeringly low (and is probably still staggeringly low). It's a fact that the game was rushed and my theory is that Tanaka was steamrolled by an unreasonable deadline coupled with insufficient resources. We see the skeleton of a great game, but absolutely no content and ****-poor UI and lore development.

My pet theory is that Tanaka was a sacrificial lamb for the corporate blunders of SE and is a scapegoat. Additionally, Yoshi-P is a classic example of a brand name, or ad campaign, similar to those that are launched by political parties (Obama and McCain as brand names). It's all style over substance to lull the dissatisfied masses into complacency and is a classic example of Bernaysian propaganda. The fanboys buy it. I don't.

EDIT: Keep in mind, this Tanaka is THE Tanaka, the legendary force behind Secret of Mana and FFXI, among other glorious titles. The man knows how to @#%^ing make video games.

Edited, Mar 6th 2011 12:49pm by HardHotThrobbingAetherite



The only part where i don't agree with you, is the part, where they scrapped content already under development, for the simple fact, that none of the changes they have brought online, affects any type of content they could have had underway, i mean UI fixes, and lag can only enhance the experience of content, i'm much more inclined to the notion that they just haven't dont **** for the past year.

Also i would take tanaka and his pedigree over yoshi and his card games <.<

I mean seriously the guy that made SOM, CT,CC etc etc over DOQMH ? REALLY ? Thats like picking the guy that made FFTA-1-2 over the guy that made FFT-Ogre battle Tactics <.<
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#211 Mar 06 2011 at 1:18 PM Rating: Good
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
... But I was making a point, cut-scenes aren't easy to create, especially in the small timeframe that they were given.

How many years was this game in development? How many months has it been since it was released? It is not in any way a small timeframe. They did not suddenly realize that quests were an option to put in their game when their poll closed.

You can work on these things before your game bombs and there's a public outcry for it, such an option was on the table. Which leads me back to: they're lazy. Or, lying about the human resources behind FFXIV.

Edited, Mar 6th 2011 2:22pm by Coyohma
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#212 Mar 06 2011 at 1:21 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
HardHotThrobbingAetherite wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Note: A company like SE should have an entire team dedicated to creating content, way before they released they should have had at least an outline of future story missions etc etc. Considering they had at the least 6 month's, is very unreasonable to think that they been doing NOTHING! Considering how abysmal the patches have been <.<

During the rift beta, people asked if they could get a party system that would automatically party them up, if there was a rift in their area, next day TRON released a full public party system from the ground up, meanwhile 6 months later at SE .......


This is an important point that is lost on your basic stimulus-response fanboy, and I'm not sure why other than to surmise that most fanboys just aren't that bright. Square Enix is one of the greatest gaming companies to have ever graced the face of the Earth, and they have done almost nothing over the past 6 months. My only guess is that they had to scrap content that would've otherwise been implemented by now because their game (which SE itself admits) was so @#%^ed up and (still) sucks ***.

Another key point to remember is that employees in the video game industry are notoriously underpaid and treated like garbage (overworked). SE, as FFXIV has proven, is no exception. And without concrete numbers on the cost of production, it would not surprise me if the pre-release production budget had been staggeringly low (and is probably still staggeringly low). It's a fact that the game was rushed and my theory is that Tanaka was steamrolled by an unreasonable deadline coupled with insufficient resources. We see the skeleton of a great game, but absolutely no content and ****-poor UI and lore development.

My pet theory is that Tanaka was a sacrificial lamb for the corporate blunders of SE and is a scapegoat. Additionally, Yoshi-P is a classic example of a brand name, or ad campaign, similar to those that are launched by political parties (Obama and McCain as brand names). It's all style over substance to lull the dissatisfied masses into complacency and is a classic example of Bernaysian propaganda. The fanboys buy it. I don't.

EDIT: Keep in mind, this Tanaka is THE Tanaka, the legendary force behind Secret of Mana and FFXI, among other glorious titles. The man knows how to @#%^ing make video games.

Edited, Mar 6th 2011 12:49pm by HardHotThrobbingAetherite



The only part where i don't agree with you, is the part, where they scrapped content already under development, for the simple fact, that none of the changes they have brought online, affects any type of content they could have had underway, i mean UI fixes, and lag can only enhance the experience of content, i'm much more inclined to the notion that they just haven't dont sh*t for the past year.

Also i would take tanaka and his pedigree over yoshi and his card games <.<

I mean seriously the guy that made SOM, CT,CC etc etc over DOQMH ? REALLY ? Thats like picking the guy that made FFTA-1-2 over the guy that made FFT-Ogre battle Tactics <.<



You mean Yasumi Matsuno? The only title in that list he wasn't involved in was FFTA2, and that pretty much uses FFTA's engine (which he was involved with.)
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#213 Mar 06 2011 at 1:22 PM Rating: Good
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Shoulda just licensed another engine

Its taking them four times as long to do anything because of this

Zzzz
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#214 Mar 06 2011 at 1:24 PM Rating: Default
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Coyohma wrote:

How many years was this game in development?


3 Physically.

Coyohma wrote:
How many months has it been since it was released?


6.

Coyohma wrote:
It is not in any way a small timeframe.


It's not a small timeframe, but the fact of the matter is they have to FIX the game before they can expand it. I can promise you no one would deal with content if the game still played as sluggishly as it did at CE launch and still suffers from latency issues at times with the UI even today. It's a sad fact but with the game being rushed out and them admittedly wanting to make XIV as different from XI as possible..well here we are.

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#215 Mar 06 2011 at 1:24 PM Rating: Decent
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
I see people are using my post out of context and trolling it/making conclusions that I'm a "fanboy", etc.

Honestly, I too did expect more out of these quests, just like everyone else. Am I disappointed that they didn't have even the slightest bit of cutscenes? Certainly. But I was making a point, cut-scenes aren't easy to create, especially in the small timeframe that they were given. Personally, I think they should have delayed the patch and give us a couple of CS's per quest. But I guess they assumed we wanted to give us quantity over quality.

Quest-wise, in September we were given quality over quantity, and people hated it. The storyline is great, but there's so little of it and so much grinding and dull content in between.

Now it's March, our voices of quests and content were heard, but now they're not quality.

What S-E needs to understand is we want quality AND quantity. The development team shouldn't be sacrificing one for the other or people are just going to complain about the other. We went from complaining to the lack of quantity to the lack of quality as far as the storyline is concerned.

But yeah, after making eleven great Final Fantasy titles and five poor ones, you think they would know by now that we like rich story-lines and memorable characters. Even side-quests in FFXI had memorable characters (Maat, that dude with the sheep in Selbina. General Zazarg!?) And FFXIV really lacks on these, sadly.


Edit: Now that I think about it, I feel like I'm playing a game of Twisted Metal. We wish for something, and we're given it, but in a massively different way that we would have liked it to be. And S-E is like some crazy Calypso.

Edited, Mar 6th 2011 11:14am by UltKnightGrover


I dont belive people hated the quality over quantity in september, it was more of the fact that, besides said quest's, there was nothing to do in the game except grinding, now 6 months later there is yet nothing to do besides grinding.

I understand when people say, that this is an MMO and is a given that overtime it will evolve and specially on this case, FFXIV "Could" only get better with time, but they are going to slow to little for anybody's taste, take the wow vanilla launch, it had horrible server issues, lag etc etc, but they had so much content to do, that when you where online and could play, you dint care if the server lagged a bit, or it went off, because when it came back up, you knew you where doing something other than grinding, meanwhile in FFXIV you had horrible lag, ui lag, horrible ui settings, and little next to nothing to do, even after they have fixed most of the lag and ui issues, there is still NOTHING TO DO! :)

Big difference between the two.
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#216 Mar 06 2011 at 1:29 PM Rating: Good
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Coyohma wrote:
UltKnightGrover wrote:
... But I was making a point, cut-scenes aren't easy to create, especially in the small timeframe that they were given.

How many years was this game in development? How many months has it been since it was released? It is not in any way a small timeframe. They did not suddenly realize that quests were an option to put in their game when their poll closed.

Edited, Mar 6th 2011 2:19pm by Coyohma


I seriously doubt they had anything done quest-wise when Yoshi-P took over and did the first poll. All we know is that there were rank 52 and 54 quests planned in the .Dats involving Titan, and three class quests for each class. .

If FFXI's development has anything to say of that about XIV, this is not the first time Tanaka's gotten away with releasing something half-assed, this is only the biggest case, and I guess he thought he could get away with it in XIV given what he did with XI's last two main expansion packs.

Treasures of Aht Urhgan came out with only 8 missions (that contained only cutscenes) 3 jobs, a handful of zones, and besieged, and stayed like that for 4-5 months.

Wings of the Goddess released with 3 missions, 2 jobs, a bunch of copied zones, and a new campaign system and stayed like that for roughly the same amount of time. They showed pictures of the end-game area back in the trailer of 2007, it didn't release until late 2010.

I doubt they really changed on their business model until Yoshi-P took over. They have (and had tendencies) to release stuff when they had a foundation and continue working on it while we do play.









Edited, Mar 6th 2011 11:30am by UltKnightGrover
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#217 Mar 06 2011 at 1:30 PM Rating: Good
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Mistress Theonehio wrote:
Coyohma wrote:

How many years was this game in development?


3 Physically.

Coyohma wrote:
How many months has it been since it was released?


6.

Coyohma wrote:
It is not in any way a small timeframe.


It's not a small timeframe, but the fact of the matter is they have to FIX the game before they can expand it. I can promise you no one would deal with content if the game still played as sluggishly as it did at CE launch and still suffers from latency issues at times with the UI even today. It's a sad fact but with the game being rushed out and them admittedly wanting to make XIV as different from XI as possible..well here we are.



Quote:
Final Fantasy XIV, previously codenamed Rapture (ラプチャー, Rapuchā?),[20] was first mentioned in August 2005, when Square Enix announced they had begun working on a new MMORPG, but neither confirmed nor denied that it was a sequel to Final Fantasy XI, or that it was Final Fantasy-related.[21] Hiromichi Tanaka, producer of the MMORPG Final Fantasy XI, stated in April 2006 that developers were working to make Rapture a worldwide release for the PlayStation 3 and Windows Vista,[22] before announcing in February 2007 that the game was being developed for Xbox 360 and Windows PC, and that it could be brought to the PlayStation 3 at some stage as well.[23] Square Enix announced at GDC 2008 that the new MMO was being targeted at all aforementioned systems and hinted that Mac and Linux clients would not be out of the question.[24]


Yeah from 2005-2010 is 3 YEARS! :)

And on your last point, vanilla wow, had horrible horrible problems at launch, server lag, server crash, sometimes servers where down DAYS :) But they had lots and lots of content and look at them today :)
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#218 Mar 06 2011 at 1:32 PM Rating: Decent
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
Ostia wrote:
HardHotThrobbingAetherite wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Note: A company like SE should have an entire team dedicated to creating content, way before they released they should have had at least an outline of future story missions etc etc. Considering they had at the least 6 month's, is very unreasonable to think that they been doing NOTHING! Considering how abysmal the patches have been <.<

During the rift beta, people asked if they could get a party system that would automatically party them up, if there was a rift in their area, next day TRON released a full public party system from the ground up, meanwhile 6 months later at SE .......


This is an important point that is lost on your basic stimulus-response fanboy, and I'm not sure why other than to surmise that most fanboys just aren't that bright. Square Enix is one of the greatest gaming companies to have ever graced the face of the Earth, and they have done almost nothing over the past 6 months. My only guess is that they had to scrap content that would've otherwise been implemented by now because their game (which SE itself admits) was so @#%^ed up and (still) sucks ***.

Another key point to remember is that employees in the video game industry are notoriously underpaid and treated like garbage (overworked). SE, as FFXIV has proven, is no exception. And without concrete numbers on the cost of production, it would not surprise me if the pre-release production budget had been staggeringly low (and is probably still staggeringly low). It's a fact that the game was rushed and my theory is that Tanaka was steamrolled by an unreasonable deadline coupled with insufficient resources. We see the skeleton of a great game, but absolutely no content and ****-poor UI and lore development.

My pet theory is that Tanaka was a sacrificial lamb for the corporate blunders of SE and is a scapegoat. Additionally, Yoshi-P is a classic example of a brand name, or ad campaign, similar to those that are launched by political parties (Obama and McCain as brand names). It's all style over substance to lull the dissatisfied masses into complacency and is a classic example of Bernaysian propaganda. The fanboys buy it. I don't.

EDIT: Keep in mind, this Tanaka is THE Tanaka, the legendary force behind Secret of Mana and FFXI, among other glorious titles. The man knows how to @#%^ing make video games.

Edited, Mar 6th 2011 12:49pm by HardHotThrobbingAetherite



The only part where i don't agree with you, is the part, where they scrapped content already under development, for the simple fact, that none of the changes they have brought online, affects any type of content they could have had underway, i mean UI fixes, and lag can only enhance the experience of content, i'm much more inclined to the notion that they just haven't dont sh*t for the past year.

Also i would take tanaka and his pedigree over yoshi and his card games <.<

I mean seriously the guy that made SOM, CT,CC etc etc over DOQMH ? REALLY ? Thats like picking the guy that made FFTA-1-2 over the guy that made FFT-Ogre battle Tactics <.<



You mean Yasumi Matsuno? The only title in that list he wasn't involved in was FFTA2, and that pretty much uses FFTA's engine (which he was involved with.)


I dont belive yasumi matsuno was involved in chrono trigger or cross, i know he was in FFXII, Ogre battle tactics, FFT etc etc, and yeah he had no doing in FFTA :)

Btw Vagrant story was epic just saying XD!
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#219 Mar 06 2011 at 1:35 PM Rating: Default
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Ostia wrote:

Yeah from 2005-2010 is 3 YEARS! :)


As I wrote:
3 Physically.


They said they didn't begin actual production of the game (aka physical) till the end of 2007.

Edit:

Also if you played FFXI, it became blatantly obvious in 2007 is when XIV kicked into high production because XI started going through a "drought".

Edited, Mar 6th 2011 11:36am by Theonehio
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#220 Mar 06 2011 at 1:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
Coyohma wrote:

How many years was this game in development?


3 Physically.

Coyohma wrote:
How many months has it been since it was released?


6.

Coyohma wrote:
It is not in any way a small timeframe.


It's not a small timeframe, but the fact of the matter is they have to FIX the game before they can expand it. I can promise you no one would deal with content if the game still played as sluggishly as it did at CE launch and still suffers from latency issues at times with the UI even today. It's a sad fact but with the game being rushed out and them admittedly wanting to make XIV as different from XI as possible..well here we are.



Quote:
Final Fantasy XIV, previously codenamed Rapture (ラプチャー, Rapuchā?),[20] was first mentioned in August 2005, when Square Enix announced they had begun working on a new MMORPG, but neither confirmed nor denied that it was a sequel to Final Fantasy XI, or that it was Final Fantasy-related.[21] Hiromichi Tanaka, producer of the MMORPG Final Fantasy XI, stated in April 2006 that developers were working to make Rapture a worldwide release for the PlayStation 3 and Windows Vista,[22] before announcing in February 2007 that the game was being developed for Xbox 360 and Windows PC, and that it could be brought to the PlayStation 3 at some stage as well.[23] Square Enix announced at GDC 2008 that the new MMO was being targeted at all aforementioned systems and hinted that Mac and Linux clients would not be out of the question.[24]


Yeah from 2005-2010 is 3 YEARS! :)

And on your last point, vanilla wow, had horrible horrible problems at launch, server lag, server crash, sometimes servers where down DAYS :) But they had lots and lots of content and look at them today :)



It is likely that they were still working on the Crystal Tools engine well into 2007. FFXIII and FFXIV use the same graphics engine, and it is likely that they were waiting for XIII's team (the one that actually made the graphics engine XIV runs on - Yoshinori Kitase's name is in the XIV credits for producing the graphics) to finish it before development could actually start on XIV. This is most likely the reason why we got a tech demo of Rapture and nothing else for several years.
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#221 Mar 06 2011 at 1:42 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:

I dont belive yasumi matsuno was involved in chrono trigger or cross, i know he was in FFXII, Ogre battle tactics, FFT etc etc, and yeah he had no doing in FFTA :)




Yeah, he did.
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#222 Mar 06 2011 at 1:46 PM Rating: Good
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
I seriously doubt they had anything done quest-wise when Yoshi-P took over and did the first poll. All we know is that there were rank 52 and 54 quests planned in the .Dats involving Titan, and three class quests for each class. .

Two points. One, even if what you say is true, it is no valid excuse. They did not fire everyone working on FFXIV - many of the people working on it then are still working on it now.

Secondly, Yoshida took over in mid-December. We're almost at the 3 month mark with him leading things. Even if we were judging from scratch (which we shouldn't), this is still a failure.

Edited, Mar 6th 2011 2:52pm by Coyohma
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#223 Mar 06 2011 at 1:49 PM Rating: Decent
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
Ostia wrote:

I dont belive yasumi matsuno was involved in chrono trigger or cross, i know he was in FFXII, Ogre battle tactics, FFT etc etc, and yeah he had no doing in FFTA :)




Yeah, he did.


Well i guess one horrible game, in a list of mostly epic masterpieces is ok <.<
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#224 Mar 06 2011 at 1:53 PM Rating: Good
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Coyohma wrote:
UltKnightGrover wrote:
I seriously doubt they had anything done quest-wise when Yoshi-P took over and did the first poll. All we know is that there were rank 52 and 54 quests planned in the .Dats involving Titan, and three class quests for each class. .

Two points. One, even if what you say is true, it is no valid excuse. They did not fire everyone working on FFXIV, from what we were told it was more of shifting people around aside from Yoshida.

Secondly, Yoshida took over in mid-December. We're almost at the 3 month mark with him leading things. Even if we were judging from scratch (which we shouldn't), this is still a failure.


I'm not disagreeing with you on the first part. It's not a valid excuse, but with a new team comes a new direction. Even stated in one of the previous letters, Yoshi stated they the original team had planned on releasing companies and then working on the company content after it was introduced. He believed this to be in reverse and wants to release companies only after he knows it has enough content.

However, I disagree with you on that your opinion that it is a failure. The quests itself aren't a bad start, per se, but yes it does lack substance and I call it a disappointment in those regards, but I guess in hindsight we got what we asked for. We wanted quests now and we got quests now, with a lack of polish, uniqueness and quality.

If they take too long with development, we lose out because people get impatient (keep in mind, I'm with the players on this one, I too want more stuff to do in Eorzea), if they try and release quickly, we get these quests instead.
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#225 Mar 06 2011 at 1:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Mistress Theonehio wrote:
Ostia wrote:

Yeah from 2005-2010 is 3 YEARS! :)


As I wrote:
3 Physically.


They said they didn't begin actual production of the game (aka physical) till the end of 2007.

Edit:

Also if you played FFXI, it became blatantly obvious in 2007 is when XIV kicked into high production because XI started going through a "drought".

Edited, Mar 6th 2011 11:36am by Theonehio


They also said, they would compete with wow and that star wars game <.< Then they toke it back <.<

But lets say they Physically started the game production 3 years ago, thats still 3 years, you mean to tell me, they are so inept at doing their job, that they dint even had a plan for content before the game went into production ? and it toke them 3 years to develop the **** we got at release ?

Serious question here, how many people are actually working on this project ? Yoshi and 3 monkey's ?
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#226 Mar 06 2011 at 2:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:


But lets say they Physically started the game production 3 years ago, thats still 3 years, you mean to tell me, they are so inept at doing their job, that they dint even had a plan for content before the game went into production ? and it toke them 3 years to develop the sh*t we got at release ?



Not likely.

Again, using FFXI as an example. Under Tanaka's leadership, they really just do the areas, NPCs, and battle system and some introductory content, but nothing further than that. They most likely were going to plan on developing content and story while we were paying monthly subs for it. Needless to say, that failed miserably.

Edited, Mar 6th 2011 12:02pm by UltKnightGrover
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#227 Mar 06 2011 at 2:02 PM Rating: Decent
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I hate to put it like this but

ITT: People who thing they know everything about how the behind the scenes development works in all MMOs even though they are totaly clueless.


Seriously people, you dont work in the industry, dont act like you know how it works behind the scenes.
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#228 Mar 06 2011 at 2:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Vedis wrote:
I hate to put it like this but

ITT: People who thing they know everything about how the behind the scenes development works in all MMOs even though they are totaly clueless.


Seriously people, you dont work in the industry, dont act like you know how it works behind the scenes.


Smiley: dubious

As the hip kids say:

Common Knowledge is Common.

Or something.
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#229 Mar 06 2011 at 2:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Mistress Theonehio wrote:
Vedis wrote:
I hate to put it like this but

ITT: People who thing they know everything about how the behind the scenes development works in all MMOs even though they are totaly clueless.


Seriously people, you dont work in the industry, dont act like you know how it works behind the scenes.


Smiley: dubious

As the hip kids say:

Common Knowledge is Common.

Or something.


its not common though
people assume they know everything, and justify it with false facts and pretending they are important and know it all
this isnt the first time ive seen it and it wont be the last


and i find it funny ostia is STILL in these threads preaching how bad everything is, when the **** is she gonna move on?
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#230 Mar 06 2011 at 2:19 PM Rating: Good
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Vedis wrote:

and i find it funny ostia is STILL in these threads preaching how bad everything is, when the **** is she gonna move on?


Never, there's people that are actually rating her up. Too bad that most of those people don't know how big of a troll she is.
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#231Odentius, Posted: Mar 06 2011 at 4:18 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Here some cheese to go with the whine.
#232 Mar 06 2011 at 5:57 PM Rating: Decent
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
Now that I think about it, I feel like I'm playing a game of Twisted Metal. We wish for something, and we're given it, but in a massively different way that we would have liked it to be. And S-E is like some crazy Calypso.


My name is Yoshi-P, and I thank you for playing Twisted XIV.
#233 Mar 06 2011 at 6:03 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I hate to put it like this but

ITT: People who thing they know everything about how the behind the scenes development works in all MMOs even though they are totaly clueless.


Seriously people, you dont work in the industry, dont act like you know how it works behind the scenes.


I don't have to know much about making an MMO. All I need to do is look at the most recent MMO that has been released(Rift), a game made by a much much smaller company. An almost perfect technical launch, a well made, finished for launch game. A genuinly well done launch and game, you don't see Rift forums full of annoyed customers do you? because there was very little to actually complain about. FFXIV on the other hand is nothing but stuff to complain about, it's terrible. You don't see Rift scared to charge a monthly fee or indeed a playerbase unwilling to pay it.

I don't have to know the intricacies of creating game/content for an MMO to know they suck at it. The new director is doing as bad a job as the guy before him in every area except talk.

If you wanna take a look at how different the playerbase is and how generally happy they almost all are checking out the Zam Rift forums below. Compare that to the FFXIV players.

http://www.zam.com/forum.html?forum=222

Edited, Mar 6th 2011 7:21pm by preludes
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#234 Mar 06 2011 at 6:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Some of those other glorious titles being Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross. I never understood the mudslinging that took place after Tanaka stepped down, especially considering his pedigree. It's not like it was his decision to release FFXIV in the state it was in.


Regardless, there were plenty of actively bad decisions made in XIV that were clearly not just unfinished.

Frankly it's embarrassing that he piqued at Chrono Trigger.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#235 Mar 06 2011 at 6:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
They also said, they would compete with wow and that star wars game <.< Then they toke it back <.<

But lets say they Physically started the game production 3 years ago, thats still 3 years, you mean to tell me, they are so inept at doing their job, that they dint even had a plan for content before the game went into production ? and it toke them 3 years to develop the sh*t we got at release ?

Serious question here, how many people are actually working on this project ? Yoshi and 3 monkey's ?


What the **** is a toke? You need to stop playing video games immediately and go back to school. Honestly, I'm being serious here, I'm not playing grammar police but the economy might take a hit soon and you wont have a job because you barely even have an education...seriously. But on topic, and for the record, SE actually said they *didn't* want to compete with WoW or SW and good thing too because that would've been even more embarrassing.

EDIT: please don't rate me down! Smiley: cry

Edited, Mar 6th 2011 7:37pm by SolidMack
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#236 Mar 06 2011 at 6:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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preludes wrote:
I don't have to know much about making an MMO. All I need to do is look at the most recent MMO that has been released(Rift), a game made by a much much smaller company. An almost perfect technical launch, a well made, finished for launch game. A genuinly well done launch and game, you don't see Rift forums full of annoyed customers do you? because there was very little to actually complain about. FFXIV on the other hand is nothing but stuff to complain about, it's terrible. You don't see Rift scared to charge a monthly fee or indeed a playerbase unwilling to pay it.


Eh. Rift got lucky, in my opinion.

It's not to disparage their accomplishment in a successful launch, but I think part of their success has to do with Blizzard's refusal to create a WoW2 (instead opting for their remake-the-world Cataclysm approach). Combining their build-on-WoW's-success cloning / evolution, and a vast WoW population looking for the "next stage" in an MMO created a perfect storm for a game like Rift. The fact they had their ducks in a row with content and networking sealed the deal. The only question is if they can hold on to their momentum (which is a good problem to have).

FFXIV didn't want to create the next WoW, and I'm okay with that. I'm not a fan of a WoW-style MMO. But by ignoring it completely, they overlooked many conventions PC gamers have to come to expect. Their other mistake was focusing way too much on quality graphics (cutscenes, etc.), and not enough on the fundamentals of gameplay and content and even rudimentary features like a functioning marketplace. It was all hype and no fun. Next time, let's hope they get their priorities straight.
#237 Mar 06 2011 at 7:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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So basically we're just supposed to wait another 6 months for Yoshi-P and crew to come out with enough content and whatnot to justify playing the game?

Don't get me wrong when I say this... but that's too much time to wait. Aside from the addition of these sidequests, we're still looking at the exact same content we had in September 2010. Which, for those of you who seem to have forgotten, is the same content we had during the Open Beta. Honestly, how much time are we going to give S-E?

I was one of the many people that was counting on a day-1 patch that added a bunch of stuff. I was disappointed. I still wait for that magic patch that adds a bunch of stuff to the game... and every patch leaves me disappointed.

Call me a troll if you want, but it seems to me we're all a bunch of chumps for giving S-E so much time and leniency. When I did the last poll, there was a comments/suggestions box at the bottom of the poll. You want to know what I put in that box?

"Port FFXI in it's entirety to the FFXIV engine and make the existing FFXIV content an expansion. Wrap it all up and call it FFXI-2. That's what most of your playerbase was expecting as evidenced by the number of FFXI-vets."

Seriously.... I don't even know what S-E is doing at this point. I spend far more time playing FFXI than I do FFXIV. Why? Because FFXI is actually fun to play. I don't have to sit there and rationalize/justify my time playing FFXI. I don't have to sit there and convince myself it's only a matter of time before the game I'm playing becomes as fun to play as it is to look at. Sure FFXI isn't as graphically pleasing as FFXIV, but at least it has the gameplay down in spades. Something that FFXIV has been sorely lacking since it's Open Beta... and I find myself wondering more and more often if it will ever be as fun to play as FFXI.
#238 Mar 06 2011 at 7:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
So basically we're just supposed to wait another 6 months for Yoshi-P and crew to come out with enough content and whatnot to justify playing the game?


I'd say by November so yea about 8 to 9 months before PS3 version is released so imo if you're planning on giving this game another chance, by November it should be either really good or the servers will have shut down by then.
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#239 Mar 06 2011 at 7:51 PM Rating: Good
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SolidMack wrote:
But on topic, and for the record, SE actually said they *didn't* want to compete with WoW or SW and good thing too because that would've been even more embarrassing.

EDIT: please don't rate me down! Smiley: cry


http://www.develop-online.net/news/33514/Final-Fantasy-XIV-a-serious-WoW-rival-says-Wada

Asked if he thought Final Fantasy XIV was a serious rival to World of Warcraft’s throne, Wada said “yes, but the flipside is that they are a tough competition.”

Edited, Mar 6th 2011 8:52pm by Zorvan
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#240 Mar 06 2011 at 7:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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SolidMack wrote:
Quote:
So basically we're just supposed to wait another 6 months for Yoshi-P and crew to come out with enough content and whatnot to justify playing the game?


I'd say by November so yea about 8 to 9 months before PS3 version is released so imo if you're planning on giving this game another chance, by November it should be either really good or the servers will have shut down by then.


So by November we'll have that magic patch that everyone (myself included) has been waiting for since the CE launched. I remember when the game launched, all the CE people (again, I include myself in this, since I am a "proud" CE owner) expected a magic patch when the CE head-start was over. That came and went and we moved the expectation date to December. After all, S-E gives major content updates to FFXI every three months... so surely December would be the month the magic patch came. December came and went... and no magic patch. But that's ok... we all figured the magic patch would come when the PS3 version launched in March. At least, that was the thinking until S-E fired Tanaka and put Yoshi-P on-board. Now the PS3 version is in limbo (I have seen nothing from S-E that states the PS3 version is still slated to come out... only a date on Amazon which also lists the PC version of Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood as having come out on February 22 when in fact it got pushed back until March 22... Amazon isn't a reliable source) and aside from some relatively small fixes and some "side-quests", we're still looking at the exact same game we had almost a year ago when the Closed Beta started.

But that's ok. The magic patch will be around November so we all just gotta hang in there until the game is technically a year and a half old. I used to say the exact same thing and it wasn't until I started playing FFXI again that I realized just how much of a chump I was for playing leapfrog with S-E in regards to FFXIV. I don't begrudge the people who have fun playing FFXIV... but I honestly believe those people would be having the time of their lives if they gave FFXI another go. At least, that's how it went with me.

Edited, Mar 6th 2011 6:08pm by oberonqa
#241 Mar 06 2011 at 8:00 PM Rating: Good
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SolidMack wrote:
Ostia wrote:
They also said, they would compete with wow and that star wars game <.< Then they toke it back <.<

But lets say they Physically started the game production 3 years ago, thats still 3 years, you mean to tell me, they are so inept at doing their job, that they dint even had a plan for content before the game went into production ? and it toke them 3 years to develop the sh*t we got at release ?

Serious question here, how many people are actually working on this project ? Yoshi and 3 monkey's ?


What the **** is a toke? You need to stop playing video games immediately and go back to school. Honestly, I'm being serious here, I'm not playing grammar police but the economy might take a hit soon and you wont have a job because you barely even have an education...seriously. But on topic, and for the record, SE actually said they *didn't* want to compete with WoW or SW and good thing too because that would've been even more embarrassing.

EDIT: please don't rate me down! Smiley: cry

Edited, Mar 6th 2011 7:37pm by SolidMack


Considering my first language is spanish and not english, and the only word that was wrongly written was took, well seems to me you are a very angry person XD!

Oh and :http://www.develop-online.net/news/33514/Final-Fantasy-XIV-a-serious-WoW-rival-says-Wada

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#242 Mar 06 2011 at 8:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
SolidMack wrote:
Ostia wrote:
They also said, they would compete with wow and that star wars game <.< Then they toke it back <.<

But lets say they Physically started the game production 3 years ago, thats still 3 years, you mean to tell me, they are so inept at doing their job, that they dint even had a plan for content before the game went into production ? and it toke them 3 years to develop the sh*t we got at release ?

Serious question here, how many people are actually working on this project ? Yoshi and 3 monkey's ?


What the **** is a toke? You need to stop playing video games immediately and go back to school. Honestly, I'm being serious here, I'm not playing grammar police but the economy might take a hit soon and you wont have a job because you barely even have an education...seriously. But on topic, and for the record, SE actually said they *didn't* want to compete with WoW or SW and good thing too because that would've been even more embarrassing.

EDIT: please don't rate me down! Smiley: cry

Edited, Mar 6th 2011 7:37pm by SolidMack


Considering my first language is spanish and not english, and the only word that was wrongly written was took, well seems to me you are a very angry person XD!

Oh and :http://www.develop-online.net/news/33514/Final-Fantasy-XIV-a-serious-WoW-rival-says-Wada



"took" and "monkey's" (it would be monkeys in that context). Just trying to help I'm not angry at all :) Anywayyyy back on topic I had no idea SE said that and its a little funny to be completely honest. I hate WoW but FFXIV is nowhere near.
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#243 Mar 06 2011 at 9:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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oberonqa wrote:


But that's ok. The magic patch will be around November so we all just gotta hang in there until the game is technically a year and a half old. I used to say the exact same thing and it wasn't until I started playing FFXI again that I realized just how much of a chump I was for playing leapfrog with S-E in regards to FFXIV. I don't begrudge the people who have fun playing FFXIV... but I honestly believe those people would be having the time of their lives if they gave FFXI another go. At least, that's how it went with me.



This was/is me too. I thought there was no way in **** I would enjoy rerolling on XI.... then I got to talking about how BST could work with the armory system... then I realized how much I missed playing BST... now I am a BST 37 (it took two weeks including getting rdm to 30 to unlock it )... and I feel like a chump for spending six months to get 2 jobs into the 30s and a handful of jobs into the 20s in XIV... even though it is supposedly the "casual" game (which is why it needs hideous icons, right? So the poor stupid casuals don't have to try too hard, amirite?)

I killed 5 nms today, got a bunch of drops, and did a couple of repeatable quests (no cut scenes or anything special but working up my fame)... and I can't for the life of me figure out why SE couldn't have just added a Spiny Spipi or Tokoko or Ghillie Dhu or eight, I mean is it really that hard to rename a mob add a few neat items? I don't get it.

When they announced NMs were coming I thought they meant they were adding something I could do right then - not a handful of nms I would need to work for another four months to do. When they said they were adding quests... well what people are describing isn't what I was hoping for. It is really too bad, I am still hoping for the miracle patch ... but I am also glad I made the decision to walk away for a bit. At least if things do improve I won't be so utterly burned out on it that I can't enjoy it.

Edited, Mar 6th 2011 7:54pm by Olorinus
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#244 Mar 06 2011 at 10:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:

I killed 5 nms today, got a bunch of drops, and did a couple of repeatable quests (no cut scenes or anything special but working up my fame)... and I can't for the life of me figure out why SE couldn't have just added a Spiny Spipi or Tokoko or Ghillie Dhu or eight, I mean is it really that hard to rename a mob add a few neat items? I don't get it.

When they announced NMs were coming I thought they meant they were adding something I could do right then - not a handful of nms I would need to work for another four months to do. When they said they were adding quests... well what people are describing isn't what I was hoping for. It is really too bad, I am still hoping for the miracle patch ... but I am also glad I made the decision to walk away for a bit. At least if things do improve I won't be so utterly burned out on it that I can't enjoy it.

Edited, Mar 6th 2011 7:54pm by Olorinus


They mainly wanted to give the people near cap/at cap something else to do with those NMs, but a lot of the reason comes with them wanting to go away from XI initially, which is why us "Make FFXIV XI-2" people mean build off of XI because they did so much more right with XI than wrong, and only thing wrong with XI was drop rates for some end-game events or 1/829,200 chance of a NM popping by to say "Sup" from a gate NM in salvage.

Edited, Mar 6th 2011 8:52pm by Theonehio
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#245 Mar 07 2011 at 3:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Very awesome comparing an almost 10 years running game on a new (and rushed) one.
Btw try some abyssea party as leecher. in 1 full day you'll be 72 at least. in 2 days 90 with half merits capped. in 3 full merit and another job running :|
that's more disappointing of wasting 6 moths for a couple of 30 and some 20 in my point of view. Also i don't understand the problem of icon on aggresive mob. Nowday every agressive mob in every other game have red names, and nobody complain. Seriusly ladies and gentlemens, ffxi is awesome but this is ridiculos, this is flamming on ANYTHING
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#246 Mar 07 2011 at 3:56 AM Rating: Good
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Minamimoto wrote:
Very awesome comparing an almost 10 years running game on a new (and rushed) one.
Btw try some abyssea party as leecher. in 1 full day you'll be 72 at least. in 2 days 90 with half merits capped. in 3 full merit and another job running :|
that's more disappointing of wasting 6 moths for a couple of 30 and some 20 in my point of view. Also i don't understand the problem of icon on aggresive mob. Nowday every agressive mob in every other game have red names, and nobody complain. Seriusly ladies and gentlemens, ffxi is awesome but this is ridiculos, this is flamming on ANYTHING


Unless you have friends or are extremely lucky, you won't be able to leech in Abyssea. And let's not forget the Limit Break quests that must be completed every 5 levels after level 50 for the new players coming to FFXI.

The only people that can successfully and effectively leech in Abyssea are the people who already are established in the server community. No one (at least, none that I have seen on Gilgamesh) simply allows random leeches into their Abyssea parties. You either have to know someone in the party or you have to be willing to keywhore (which requires Cruor, which requires prior Abyssea runs).

Not that Abyssea leeching is even necessary anymore, to be honest. The last update brought the removal of the Field of Valor timer, so you can spam FoV pages as much as you want (you will get xp for spamming, but will only get gil and tabs once per game-day). Couple that with the increase in xp given from all mobs (you get 100-120 for EP, 140-160 for DC, 180-220 for EM, 240-280 for T, 300-360 for VT, and 380-440 for IT) and the presence of XP rings like the Empress Band, why on earth would someone even WANT to leech in Abyssea even if they could?
#247 Mar 07 2011 at 4:58 AM Rating: Good
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ForceOfMeh wrote:
It's not to disparage their accomplishment in a successful launch, but I think part of their success has to do with Blizzard's refusal to create a WoW2 (instead opting for their remake-the-world Cataclysm approach). Combining their build-on-WoW's-success cloning / evolution, and a vast WoW population looking for the "next stage" in an MMO created a perfect storm for a game like Rift. The fact they had their ducks in a row with content and networking sealed the deal. The only question is if they can hold on to their momentum (which is a good problem to have).
On the WoW end, everyone I know who was raiding and an active player during wrath of the lich king hates most of the changes tossed in with cataclysm. This ranges from class mechanics all the way down to synergy between classes and new itemization and even some of the dungeons. You have openly accessible content that is a lot harder than its WotLK equivalent, which worsened the searches for tanks and healers due to them becoming overly picky of who they take to do instances due to the smaller room for error. The 2% won that battle, much to my chagrin (AKA the no lifers that blew through the game in a week and cried that it was too easy while those of us with jobs and lives outside the game happily trudged along, nowhere near the finish line). That's not mentioning how much of a mess PvP has become (again).

That's where I think a lot of the numbers for rift are coming from. Well, that and honestly curious people that chose to give the game a try. If they keep their game in check, I think they'll be able to retain the surge of players they've gotten since launch.

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On the topic of Tanaka, I recognize the guy's involvement in some of the best games Square ever produced. At the same time, I recognize that he nor game design as a whole are what they used to be. Things change and people age, you know.
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#248 Mar 07 2011 at 5:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Ruisu wrote:

On the topic of Tanaka, I recognize the guy's involvement in some of the best games Square ever produced. At the same time, I recognize that he nor game design as a whole are what they used to be. Things change and people age, you know.


Sad but true. Every great designer has at least one steaming **** in his/her resume. Yatsuda, for example, has FFXII. Sakaguchi has The Spirits Within (not technically a game, I know... but it was Sakaguchi's brainchild nontheless). Miyamoto has Mario Paint. Garriot has Tabula Rasa. Romero has Diakatana. Molyneoux has Black & White 2.

Pegigree and past experience does not preclude a game designer from fouling things up from time to time. However, pedigree and past experience does tend to determine just how long said foul up is remembered. Most people wouldn't consider Molyneoux a bad designer just because Black & White 2 was a flop... anymore than Miyamoto for the travesty that was Mario Paint.

I'm sure Tanaka will weather the storm just fine. He may take a back seat for a year or two, or perhaps share directorial duties with another designer on his next game... but I'm sure he'll be back in the drivers seat in no time at all.
#249 Mar 07 2011 at 5:18 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Yatsuda, for example, has FFXII.


If critically and commercially successful product counts as a **** for this guy, he might just be the best director out there.

Nothing but subjective opinions make this game a '****' for a select group of people. I wouldn't even consider mentioning it together with objectively bad games like the others you mentioned. Ridiculous.

It's part of the same mindset that considers XI a 'failed game SE should have learnt from' because it was an MMO and therefore not a 'troo fainl fantsy gaem'.

Edited, Mar 7th 2011 2:19pm by Hyanmen
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#250 Mar 07 2011 at 5:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Yatsuda, for example, has FFXII.


If critically and commercially successful product counts as a **** for this guy, he might just be the best director out there.

Nothing but subjective opinions make this game a '****' for a select group of people. I wouldn't even consider mentioning it together with objectively bad games like the others you mentioned. Ridiculous.

It's part of the same mindset that considers XI a 'failed game SE should have learnt from' because it was an MMO and therefore not a 'troo fainl fantsy gaem'.

Edited, Mar 7th 2011 2:19pm by Hyanmen


I personally liked FFXII. But the player community as a whole kind of derails FFXII for it's MMO-like approach to gameplay. Then again, I also enjoyed FFXIII... so there is indeed a difference between commercially successful and critically successful. However, even among Yatsuda fans, FFXII is generally considered to be the weakest of his titles, especially considering his previous works (most notably Final Fantasy Tactics and Vagrant Story).

However, you cannot apply the same logic to John Romero, Peter Molyneoux, Shigeru Miyamoto, and Richard Garriot. The titles I listed for these designers were critical and commercial failures.
#251 Mar 07 2011 at 9:58 AM Rating: Decent
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HardHotThrobbingAetherite wrote:
During the rift beta, people asked if they could get a party system that would automatically party them up, if there was a rift in their area, next day TRON released a full public party system from the ground up, meanwhile 6 months later at SE .......

This is an important point that is lost on your basic stimulus-response fanboy, and I'm not sure why other than to surmise that most fanboys just aren't that bright. Square Enix is one of the greatest gaming companies to have ever graced the face of the Earth, and they have done almost nothing over the past 6 months. My only guess is that they had to scrap content that would've otherwise been implemented by now because their game (which SE itself admits) was so @#%^ed up and (still) sucks ***.

Another key point to remember is that employees in the video game industry are notoriously underpaid and treated like garbage (overworked). SE, as FFXIV has proven, is no exception. And without concrete numbers on the cost of production, it would not surprise me if the pre-release production budget had been staggeringly low (and is probably still staggeringly low). It's a fact that the game was rushed and my theory is that Tanaka was steamrolled by an unreasonable deadline coupled with insufficient resources. We see the skeleton of a great game, but absolutely no content and ****-poor UI and lore development.

My pet theory is that Tanaka was a sacrificial lamb for the corporate blunders of SE and is a scapegoat. Additionally, Yoshi-P is a classic example of a brand name, or ad campaign, similar to those that are launched by political parties (Obama and McCain as brand names). It's all style over substance to lull the dissatisfied masses into complacency and is a classic example of Bernaysian propaganda. The fanboys buy it. I don't.

EDIT: Keep in mind, this Tanaka is THE Tanaka, the legendary force behind Secret of Mana and FFXI, among other glorious titles. The man knows how to @#%^ing make video games.



This is a very intelligent post OP. I give you alot of credit, it was well formed and well thought out. My fear, as a fanboy, is that you are correct. I don't like to admit it and try to deny it myself, but in the end, I fear this is true. Its more about money than substance, and they lost big time. It's pretty typical, the higher you ascend, the harder the fall. The problem now, is correcting this mess, because in the end, I really want to like, enjoy and play this game.

Edited, Mar 7th 2011 11:02am by lurex
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