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Sidequests: not very goodFollow

#252 Mar 07 2011 at 10:10 AM Rating: Decent
I'm thinking the bulk of the reasources are going to a full size expansion. We will get the high-rank dungeons first in an update, as well as companies. But they are surely saving something big for PS3 release/subscription time. They have to be working on all this continually as other teams try to provide fixes and NOW content.

Point is, they have been doing something for 6 months but we have not seen it yet.
#253 Mar 07 2011 at 10:15 AM Rating: Good
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Wanted to chime in on sidequests here.

I had a blast doing them last night.

Made me actually go to LL and explore La Noscea. Visited a few aethryte gates I've never been too. Got killed trying to get the south bloodshore and the one north of bloodshore that has the goobue's. Was fun to go exploring and adventuring. Looking very much forward to where the quests go from here, but it reminded me of my early FFXI days: exploring cities, visiting new places.

Kudos to SE. Also dinged 50 physical and 40 pugilist so I had a great weekend.
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#254 Mar 07 2011 at 10:29 AM Rating: Good
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Very awesome comparing an almost 10 years running game on a new (and rushed) one.



You really don't want to compare a game that just came out with an excelent launch to ffxiv either. so where does that leave us?
#255 Mar 07 2011 at 10:35 AM Rating: Good
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SmashingtonWho wrote:
I'm thinking the bulk of the reasources are going to a full size expansion. We will get the high-rank dungeons first in an update, as well as companies. But they are surely saving something big for PS3 release/subscription time. They have to be working on all this continually as other teams try to provide fixes and NOW content.

Point is, they have been doing something for 6 months but we have not seen it yet.


I really really really want to believe this! I'm still here, and I won't bail anytime soon.
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#256 Mar 07 2011 at 10:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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Most people seem to forget that SE announced way back in 2005 that they had already begun work on "Rapture" (which was the code name for ffxiv).

Six years later, this is how far they have gotten with it.

This fact seems noteworthy when we keep giving them such a generous "startup" development curve.




Edited, Mar 7th 2011 10:46am by Mithsavvy
#257 Mar 07 2011 at 11:11 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I'm thinking the bulk of the reasources are going to a full size expansion. We will get the high-rank dungeons first in an update, as well as companies. But they are surely saving something big for PS3 release/subscription time. They have to be working on all this continually as other teams try to provide fixes and NOW content.

Point is, they have been doing something for 6 months but we have not seen it yet.


I am just not convinced of this honestly. I felt like they had something magical that would change from beta to launch as well (as did many others), but almost nothing happened. IF you are wrong (I hope you aren't wrong) and they can't release a large amount of content or a comprehensive expansion...I am pretty much done.
#258 Mar 07 2011 at 1:09 PM Rating: Good
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WhtxKorean wrote:
Quote:
I'm thinking the bulk of the reasources are going to a full size expansion. We will get the high-rank dungeons first in an update, as well as companies. But they are surely saving something big for PS3 release/subscription time. They have to be working on all this continually as other teams try to provide fixes and NOW content.

Point is, they have been doing something for 6 months but we have not seen it yet.


I am just not convinced of this honestly. I felt like they had something magical that would change from beta to launch as well (as did many others), but almost nothing happened. IF you are wrong (I hope you aren't wrong) and they can't release a large amount of content or a comprehensive expansion...I am pretty much done.



I think even thinking about developing content for an expansion at this point would be waste of money if there are no players to buy it. Sadly I think this is the horribly slow speed at which SE develops stuff.
#259 Mar 07 2011 at 2:13 PM Rating: Decent
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oberonqa wrote:
Yatsuda, for example, has FFXII.


No.

Quote:
I personally liked FFXII. But the player community as a whole kind of derails FFXII for it's MMO-like approach to gameplay.


Here, check out this link to see what over 20k people on gamespot alone who have rated FFXII gave it: http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/rpg/finalfantasy12/index.html?tag=result%3Btitle%3B0

Out of 21,850 voters the game got on average a 9.1/10 score. How is that a negative reaction by the community? or are you basing that off of GameFAQs numbers that has like at most 1000-2000 voters?? they are considered the minority in this case. The game was well received, but as evident with many games the vocal minority is loud because they have nothing better to do but complain.

Edited, Mar 7th 2011 3:16pm by SolidMack
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#260 Mar 07 2011 at 2:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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SolidMack wrote:
oberonqa wrote:
Yatsuda, for example, has FFXII.


No.

Quote:
I personally liked FFXII. But the player community as a whole kind of derails FFXII for it's MMO-like approach to gameplay.


Here, check out this link to see what over 20k people on gamespot alone who have rated FFXII gave it: http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/rpg/finalfantasy12/index.html?tag=result%3Btitle%3B0

Out of 21,850 voters the game got on average a 9.1/10 score. How is that a negative reaction by the community? or are you basing that off of GameFAQs numbers that has like at most 1000-2000 voters?? they are considered the minority in this case. The game was well received, but as evident with many games the vocal minority is loud because they have nothing better to do but complain.

Edited, Mar 7th 2011 3:16pm by SolidMack


I am amazed at the perception that the various incarnations of Final Fantasies past have not been well received by critics or players. One person didn't like something about it and they are convinced everyone else had to have felt the same way. Personally, I couldn't stand FF8, but lo and behold, it's one of the top rated games of all time for the PS1 (and heck, even the PSP).

If there's one thing FFXIV "accomplished" is what a real Final Fantasy bomb looks like. Every other game in the series looks like they're from a Golden Age in comparison.
#261 Mar 07 2011 at 2:40 PM Rating: Decent
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ForceOfMeh wrote:


If there's one thing FFXIV "accomplished" is what a real Final Fantasy bomb looks like. Every other game in the series looks like they're from a Golden Age in comparison.


I agree. FFXIV even makes FFXIII look good.
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#262 Mar 07 2011 at 2:48 PM Rating: Good
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I agree. FFXIV even makes FFXIII look good.


That's because FFXIII is good...just because its linear doesn't make it a bad game. It had interesting characters, a pretty good storyline and fun game play. Again, here's a link to Gamespot to see what these people rated it: 8418 voters gave it an 8.4 on the PS3 and 2694 voters gave it an 8.1 on the Xbox 360 averaging it out to 8.3 more or less which is 83%...pretty good if you ask me. In fact it was so well received apparently that they're even making a sequel to the game (it seems they dissolved the Fabula Nova Crystallus series..Agito has become a trilogy in its own and they're now making Type-0, 1, and 2 and now with FFXIII, kinda odd if you ask me but meh I don't care as long as I get my FF fix). Links below:

(360) http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/rpg/finalfantasy13/index.html
(PS3) http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/rpg/finalfantasy13/index.html

Edited, Mar 7th 2011 3:49pm by SolidMack
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#263 Mar 07 2011 at 5:03 PM Rating: Good
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SolidMack wrote:
That's because FFXIII is good...just because its linear doesn't make it a bad game. It had interesting characters, a pretty good storyline and fun game play.


This. It's like, for an FF, if it's not everything somebody wanted they think it deserves an "F." Sure XIII could have benefited from being less linear, but it's not like there are even a dozen games made within the last several years (at least not that I personally can think of) that are better.

That's the problem with high-profile games: they incite nerd-rage when people are soul-crushed at the prospect of a product that's "only" above average. >_<;
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#264 Mar 07 2011 at 5:22 PM Rating: Decent
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oberonqa wrote:
Ruisu wrote:

On the topic of Tanaka, I recognize the guy's involvement in some of the best games Square ever produced. At the same time, I recognize that he nor game design as a whole are what they used to be. Things change and people age, you know.


Sad but true. Every great designer has at least one steaming **** in his/her resume. Yatsuda, for example, has FFXII. Sakaguchi has The Spirits Within (not technically a game, I know... but it was Sakaguchi's brainchild nontheless). Miyamoto has Mario Paint. Garriot has Tabula Rasa. Romero has Diakatana. Molyneoux has Black & White 2.

Pegigree and past experience does not preclude a game designer from fouling things up from time to time. However, pedigree and past experience does tend to determine just how long said foul up is remembered. Most people wouldn't consider Molyneoux a bad designer just because Black & White 2 was a flop... anymore than Miyamoto for the travesty that was Mario Paint.

I'm sure Tanaka will weather the storm just fine. He may take a back seat for a year or two, or perhaps share directorial duties with another designer on his next game... but I'm sure he'll be back in the drivers seat in no time at all.


Final Fantasy XII Was great, it had tons of things to do other than go kill X and have a cutscene, i spent 200 hours in my first play, just killing everything, doing every quest etc etc, and i can put the disc back in and still do it all over again, now i do agree that the game lacked a lot of story based missions or content so to say, the story itself went to quick, but it is my opinion that FFXII was meant to have a sequel, i mean they gave us this huge known world, and only let us play in 2 country's <.<
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#265 Mar 07 2011 at 5:31 PM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
SolidMack wrote:
That's because FFXIII is good...just because its linear doesn't make it a bad game. It had interesting characters, a pretty good storyline and fun game play.


This. It's like, for an FF, if it's not everything somebody wanted they think it deserves an "F." Sure XIII could have benefited from being less linear, but it's not like there are even a dozen games made within the last several years (at least not that I personally can think of) that are better.

That's the problem with high-profile games: they incite nerd-rage when people are soul-crushed at the prospect of a product that's "only" above average. >_<;


FFXIII was ways and ways off any other FF before it, the battle system was good, i liked the fast paced of it, but it made battles a one hit button for the larger part of the game, the story was interesting for about the first hour, then it was more of a "Meh! lets hope it picks up" kinda thing, the characters where horrible seriously, worst cast of FF chars i seen, and it was way way to linear for me, going from FFXII open world scenario to this was just a WTF moment for me, now the game was not OMGAWFULL, but it was not what i was expecting of a FF.
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#266 Mar 07 2011 at 5:33 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
oberonqa wrote:
Ruisu wrote:

On the topic of Tanaka, I recognize the guy's involvement in some of the best games Square ever produced. At the same time, I recognize that he nor game design as a whole are what they used to be. Things change and people age, you know.


Sad but true. Every great designer has at least one steaming **** in his/her resume. Yatsuda, for example, has FFXII. Sakaguchi has The Spirits Within (not technically a game, I know... but it was Sakaguchi's brainchild nontheless). Miyamoto has Mario Paint. Garriot has Tabula Rasa. Romero has Diakatana. Molyneoux has Black & White 2.

Pegigree and past experience does not preclude a game designer from fouling things up from time to time. However, pedigree and past experience does tend to determine just how long said foul up is remembered. Most people wouldn't consider Molyneoux a bad designer just because Black & White 2 was a flop... anymore than Miyamoto for the travesty that was Mario Paint.

I'm sure Tanaka will weather the storm just fine. He may take a back seat for a year or two, or perhaps share directorial duties with another designer on his next game... but I'm sure he'll be back in the drivers seat in no time at all.


Final Fantasy XII Was great, it had tons of things to do other than go kill X and have a cutscene, i spent 200 hours in my first play, just killing everything, doing every quest etc etc, and i can put the disc back in and still do it all over again, now i do agree that the game lacked a lot of story based missions or content so to say, the story itself went to quick, but it is my opinion that FFXII was meant to have a sequel, i mean they gave us this huge known world, and only let us play in 2 country's <.<


Oh I'm right there with you. I devoured XII when I got it and still have fond memories of fighting Yazmat. However, I acknowledge that there are opinions and viewpoints other than my own. I'm not going to sit there and take the stance that because I got so much enjoyment out of XII, then everyone who didn't have the same experience must be doing something wrong.

I also enjoyed XIII for pretty much the same reason. I got a real kick out of Gran Pulse (which is when the game really opens up, similar to how X opened up after you beat Yunalesca in Zanarkand). Neither XII or XIII are without their flaws, but I was still able to have an enjoyable experience.

Whereas with XIV, I just don't seem to have much fun playing it. I acknowledge that there are people who do genuinely have fun playing FFXIV. I don't pretend to understand it... but I do acknowledge it. It's a shame that more people cannot respect the viewpoints of others.

EDIT: Forgot to point out the main reason why I enjoyed XII was the Gambit system. It allowed a great degree of customization and flexibility in regards to NPC behavior. As for XIII, I enjoyed the battle system and the Crystarium. :)

Edited, Mar 7th 2011 3:36pm by oberonqa
#267 Mar 07 2011 at 6:20 PM Rating: Decent
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These quests are well done. Most of them are useless and a waste of time just like every other sidequest of every other MMO. However, they are put together quite well and the rewards seem to be inline for such simple quests.
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#268 Mar 07 2011 at 7:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Obiar wrote:
These quests are well done. Most of them are useless and a waste of time just like every other sidequest of every other MMO. However, they are put together quite well and the rewards seem to be inline for such simple quests.
As I've mentioned elsewhere, I don't think this is what people were expecting. People like me were expecting the beginning of an alternative mode of leveling. Yes, that got struck down by the "THIS GAME SHOULD TAKE NO LESSONS FROM WOW111!1!one" crowd, but as I said I do know a person or two that like that more than putting together a party to grind mobs.

At the same time, I do realize that given the amount of time they've had to put this together, it wasn't gonna surmount to much (part of why I was not expecting cut scenes, for example). For me the bottom line is that I did not want more of "oh well nothing to do tonight so I'll do some quests". Which is sadly what they seem to be bent on giving us.
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#269 Mar 07 2011 at 10:40 PM Rating: Good
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Obiar wrote:
These quests are well done. Most of them are useless and a waste of time just like every other sidequest of every other MMO.


What is this I don't even...
#270 Mar 07 2011 at 11:23 PM Rating: Good
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ForceOfMeh wrote:
Obiar wrote:
These quests are well done. Most of them are useless and a waste of time just like every other sidequest of every other MMO.


What is this I don't even...


I almost a whole Chocobo.
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#271 Mar 08 2011 at 4:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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You said it was a necessary part of the game. I'm saying it is completely optional.


Yeah, it's completely optional. That's not what his gripe is though, unless you want to ignore the substance of his complaint and harp on the semantics. His gripe is that the game is now giving him information that he doesn't want, and this information is tied to a part of the UI that contains information he does want to see. Hence, he's in a bind. There's a conflict there that your suggestion doesn't really address.

In any case, if he doesn't want to take your advice, then what's it matter to you? You had a reasonable suggestion, he had a reasonable motive for not taking it.
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#272 Mar 08 2011 at 4:48 AM Rating: Default
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Obiar wrote:
These quests are well done. Most of them are useless and a waste of time just like every other sidequest of every other MMO. However, they are put together quite well and the rewards seem to be inline for such simple quests.



XI's quests aren't useless waste of time and I think that's pretty much the quality people where expecting.

If this is the quality of some other MMOs the I definitely don't want to try those ever. Could you name some names so I can avoid them?
#273 Mar 08 2011 at 11:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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seiferdincht wrote:

If this is the quality of some other MMOs the I definitely don't want to try those ever. Could you name some names so I can avoid them?


I would, but your fame isn't high enough. Bring me 1,000 Yagudo Necklaces and 10,000 Boyahda Moss and we'll talk.
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#274 Mar 08 2011 at 12:40 PM Rating: Default
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superdupernuker wrote:
seiferdincht wrote:

If this is the quality of some other MMOs the I definitely don't want to try those ever. Could you name some names so I can avoid them?


I would, but your fame isn't high enough. Bring me 1,000 Yagudo Necklaces and 10,000 Boyahda Moss and we'll talk.


This is your example? try harder. FFXI might not have had the amazing quests people are making them out to be but you chose repeatable quests to make your point? of course those are lame, anything is after repeating it a million times. In general, I remember FFXI having better quests than what FFXIV has today but that's not to say they were amazing, they barely pulled me in to be honest, but they were definitely not bad.
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#275 Mar 08 2011 at 4:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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superdupernuker wrote:
seiferdincht wrote:

If this is the quality of some other MMOs the I definitely don't want to try those ever. Could you name some names so I can avoid them?


I would, but your fame isn't high enough. Bring me 1,000 Yagudo Necklaces and 10,000 Boyahda Moss and we'll talk.


Gating quests behind fame levels like that was so awful. They really should have bumped the fame rewards from doing non-repeatable quests.
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#276 Mar 08 2011 at 4:38 PM Rating: Decent
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SolidMack wrote:
superdupernuker wrote:
seiferdincht wrote:

If this is the quality of some other MMOs the I definitely don't want to try those ever. Could you name some names so I can avoid them?


I would, but your fame isn't high enough. Bring me 1,000 Yagudo Necklaces and 10,000 Boyahda Moss and we'll talk.


This is your example? try harder. FFXI might not have had the amazing quests people are making them out to be but you chose repeatable quests to make your point? of course those are lame, anything is after repeating it a million times. In general, I remember FFXI having better quests than what FFXIV has today but that's not to say they were amazing, they barely pulled me in to be honest, but they were definitely not bad.


I was just making a joke, yo. Although I agree with Kuja's point.
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#277 Mar 09 2011 at 7:23 AM Rating: Decent
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KujaKoF wrote:
superdupernuker wrote:
seiferdincht wrote:

If this is the quality of some other MMOs the I definitely don't want to try those ever. Could you name some names so I can avoid them?


I would, but your fame isn't high enough. Bring me 1,000 Yagudo Necklaces and 10,000 Boyahda Moss and we'll talk.


Gating quests behind fame levels like that was so awful. They really should have bumped the fame rewards from doing non-repeatable quests.


Repeatable quests were put in place for those who didn't bother doing the non repeatable ones.

I've only turned in few bastore sardines but I've never had to "grind" quests because there's always enough quests available in any given city to bump your fame to the next level.

I think this is a mute point as it's a sign that you were too lazy to do the quests in the first place and then you complain about a system that helps people like you.

Odd.

Anyway it doesn't change the fact that XI quests are better.
#278 Mar 09 2011 at 4:27 PM Rating: Good
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It figures. I think I'm just going to let this one go. FFXI was great, but SE isn't going to hit the mark again most likely.

On a side note: some people mentioned try Rift. I gave that one a go too and I actually liked it for a few days and thought I'd play it for a while. Got into the 30s and realized it was most of the things that suck about warcraft mixed with warhammer; a game I couldn't stand.

Oh well back to WoW. It's unfortunate but at least I enjoy myself. Toodaloo FFers.

Edited, Mar 9th 2011 5:27pm by Transmigration
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#279 Mar 10 2011 at 3:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Most people seem to forget that SE announced way back in 2005 that they had already begun work on "Rapture" (which was the code name for ffxiv).

Six years later, this is how far they have gotten with it.


And what is included within those '6 years', we don't know. We know that the basic development schedule for an SE game is two years. We know that the development of their flagship titles was delayed considerably due to problems with the Crystal Tools engine. We know that XI and XIV were developed simultaneously side-by-side. We know that XI's development was cut by a huge margin at around the end of 2007 or so. It would not be far-fetched to assume that during that time SE started developing XIV at full force, giving them roughly 2+ years to get where they are currently.

Quote:
This fact seems noteworthy when we keep giving them such a generous "startup" development curve.


A) The only fact is that they had begun to do something regarding their new MMO back in 2005. Figuring out concepts, building the Crystal Tools, sitting on a round table tossing ideas at each other.

B) Their development did "start" from scratch with the change in development. You don't have to agree with Wada's decision but it doesn't change the fact that there is a perfect explanation for the developers to get anywhere in the last 6 months. If it wasn't for the fact that they had to start from the scratch and assign new internal policies and teams to handle the new form of development they would be further in development than they are right now. That's just how it is, whether you agree with the decision or not.
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#280 Mar 10 2011 at 9:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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seiferdincht wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
superdupernuker wrote:
seiferdincht wrote:

If this is the quality of some other MMOs the I definitely don't want to try those ever. Could you name some names so I can avoid them?


I would, but your fame isn't high enough. Bring me 1,000 Yagudo Necklaces and 10,000 Boyahda Moss and we'll talk.


Gating quests behind fame levels like that was so awful. They really should have bumped the fame rewards from doing non-repeatable quests.


Repeatable quests were put in place for those who didn't bother doing the non repeatable ones.

I've only turned in few bastore sardines but I've never had to "grind" quests because there's always enough quests available in any given city to bump your fame to the next level.

I think this is a mute point as it's a sign that you were too lazy to do the quests in the first place and then you complain about a system that helps people like you.

Odd.

Anyway it doesn't change the fact that XI quests are better.


if it was intended or not, they ended up being there so that people could "buy" fame. It wasnt so much a matter of lazy to me, as it was more efficient. I liked having the option there, but I would rather have seen 3-5 regular quests give as much fame as 15-20 repeats.

Actually my biggest issue was reputations like tenshodo (the norg guys), who were basically impossible to rep up without repeatable.
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