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#1 Mar 04 2011 at 4:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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SE had years working on ffxi to work out whats good and whats not, right?

From 7 to 13 they know what they're doing.

11 in particular had NMs, quests, the hub of the AH, BCNMs, sub jobs, good balanced battle system, great gear at the right levels, a structured path to leveling, really varied locales, varied mob spread, awesome storyline, chatty playerbase, exciting drops, and most of all, a sense of 'adventure'.

I just don't get why 14 is so behind 11. This patch is bizarre too.

Nissan wouldn't spend 8 years making and tweaking a r34 GTR skyline then announce that they're bringing out a horse and cart saying, 'we'll put the engine, wheels and radio in next summer'.

I still just can't fathom what a mess this game is for the series and how on earth yoshi-p is going to turn it around. It's such a bloody shame as it has so much potential. I just don't get it.

As it's march with a new patch, does anyone think this game is release worthy yet?
#2 Mar 04 2011 at 4:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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KuroGawatwo wrote:
As it's march with a new patch, does anyone think this game is release worthy yet?
I sure hope not.
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#3 Mar 04 2011 at 4:37 AM Rating: Good
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They did set out to make a r34 GTR skyline but they ran out of time when they finished building the engine and so they slapped it on a horse and cart to pass it off as a r34 GTR skyline. So Yoshi has to break down the cart and kill the horse and build a proper car around the engine. The basis is there sure but it still needs a ******** of work. And IMO the game is not worth paying for just yet.
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#4 Mar 04 2011 at 5:04 AM Rating: Default
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That's a horrible analogy as building a car isn't even the same as building a video game.
What would be closer is saying sometimes even a programming giant screws up... look no futher than Windows Vista for an example.
Even better would be even great artists can sometimes make a **** painting. ect.
Even Beethoven had some ****** songs.
#5 Mar 04 2011 at 7:34 AM Rating: Good
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ok, by those analogies, this is like vista coming with no browser, no media player, no accessories and no drivers, and in black and white.

It's like Monet knocking out his water lillies then, announcing a new project, he paints a picture of a cat on a skateboard in felt tip.

Beethoven, after belting out his 9th symphony with tears of joy, decides to write 'who let the dogs out' under the fake name 'Baha Men'.

It doesn't make sense. Meh

#6 Mar 04 2011 at 7:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Just my personal opinion, but the way I see it, the original team created 5 years worth of mess and Yoshi-P has been charged with the task of sifting through and cleaning it up. I wouldn't expect him to clean it up overnight.
#7 Mar 04 2011 at 8:05 AM Rating: Good
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ThePacster wrote:
Just my personal opinion, but the way I see it, the original team created 5 years worth of mess and Yoshi-P has been charged with the task of sifting through and cleaning it up. I wouldn't expect him to clean it up overnight.


I'm not completely insensitive to that, but its not the customer's problem. Every one of us has the right to be upset about the state of the game and the speed its being fixed. Now its doubly bad because it happened to be one of the few products in the world its near impossible to get a refund for so the anger's compounded. SE really needs to kick things into high gear if they actually want to pull this around, It feels now like we're all just being strung along.
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#8 Mar 04 2011 at 8:21 AM Rating: Decent
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KujaKoF wrote:
It feels now like we're all just being strung along.


How are we being strung along? Aside from the initial investment of $30-$40, we're not paying a penny for the service being offered, they're trying their damnedest to please their fanbase as quickly as they can, and we have absolutely no obligations--social, contractual, whatever--keeping us here; SE isn't tugging on our arms and dragging us off to keep playing their game.
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Don't play that game anymore. :P
#9 Mar 04 2011 at 9:35 AM Rating: Good
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Quanta wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
It feels now like we're all just being strung along.


How are we being strung along? Aside from the initial investment of $30-$40, we're not paying a penny for the service being offered, they're trying their damnedest to please their fanbase as quickly as they can, and we have absolutely no obligations--social, contractual, whatever--keeping us here; SE isn't tugging on our arms and dragging us off to keep playing their game.


Why aside $30-40???? That's money! I paid for a game that was 0 content at release, we all know about it. You guys talk like SE was doing us a favor. SE sold at least 500k copies @ $40 each, that's $20M. And I should be grateful because...?
Let's clarify, SE earned $20M and we got nothing (at least nothing worth this amount).

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/35106/final-fantasy-xiv-online/
#10 Mar 04 2011 at 9:54 AM Rating: Decent
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cquintela wrote:
Quanta wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
It feels now like we're all just being strung along.


How are we being strung along? Aside from the initial investment of $30-$40, we're not paying a penny for the service being offered, they're trying their damnedest to please their fanbase as quickly as they can, and we have absolutely no obligations--social, contractual, whatever--keeping us here; SE isn't tugging on our arms and dragging us off to keep playing their game.


Why aside $30-40???? That's money! I paid for a game that was 0 content at release, we all know about it. You guys talk like SE was doing us a favor. SE sold at least 500k copies @ $40 each, that's $20M. And I should be grateful because...?
Let's clarify, SE earned $20M and we got nothing (at least nothing worth this amount).

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/35106/final-fantasy-xiv-online/


I suppose if you didn't play beta and/or completely missed all the negative feedback from testers, reviewers, and SE itself, then yeah, I could see how you would feel cheated out of $30-$40 because "OMG How could I have known?!".

If I somehow implied that we were supposed to be grateful, I apologize, because I never intended to do so. All I was saying was that everyone is here of their own free will, and isn't being forced into anything by anyone, SE especially. The fact that we're all still here means that we give enough of a **** about this **** game that we'll stick around and loudly complain about it until things change.

They earned $20mil...on a game that probably cost 5-10x that. Do the math.
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Don't play that game anymore. :P
#11 Mar 04 2011 at 10:06 AM Rating: Decent
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cquintela wrote:
Quanta wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
It feels now like we're all just being strung along.


How are we being strung along? Aside from the initial investment of $30-$40, we're not paying a penny for the service being offered, they're trying their damnedest to please their fanbase as quickly as they can, and we have absolutely no obligations--social, contractual, whatever--keeping us here; SE isn't tugging on our arms and dragging us off to keep playing their game.


Why aside $30-40???? That's money! I paid for a game that was 0 content at release, we all know about it. You guys talk like SE was doing us a favor. SE sold at least 500k copies @ $40 each, that's $20M. And I should be grateful because...?
Let's clarify, SE earned $20M and we got nothing (at least nothing worth this amount).

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/35106/final-fantasy-xiv-online/


What I don't understand is why people who bought a relatively cheap product they don't like feel the need to come to public forums and continuously bash it for months upon months. Have you never bought a bad product before? Bought a movie you didn't like, spoiled food from the grocery store, a computer that didn't last as long as it should, etc.? Why is it that buyers remorse with an MMO is SO much stronger than it is for any other product?
#12 Mar 04 2011 at 10:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Hydragyrum wrote:
cquintela wrote:
Quanta wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
It feels now like we're all just being strung along.


How are we being strung along? Aside from the initial investment of $30-$40, we're not paying a penny for the service being offered, they're trying their damnedest to please their fanbase as quickly as they can, and we have absolutely no obligations--social, contractual, whatever--keeping us here; SE isn't tugging on our arms and dragging us off to keep playing their game.


Why aside $30-40???? That's money! I paid for a game that was 0 content at release, we all know about it. You guys talk like SE was doing us a favor. SE sold at least 500k copies @ $40 each, that's $20M. And I should be grateful because...?
Let's clarify, SE earned $20M and we got nothing (at least nothing worth this amount).

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/35106/final-fantasy-xiv-online/


What I don't understand is why people who bought a relatively cheap product they don't like feel the need to come to public forums and continuously bash it for months upon months. Have you never bought a bad product before? Bought a movie you didn't like, spoiled food from the grocery store, a computer that didn't last as long as it should, etc.? Why is it that buyers remorse with an MMO is SO much stronger than it is for any other product?


I'm not bashing the game, I just do not understand the mentality of buying something bad and be thankful to people who sold that to you. I never bashed the game on my post.
#13 Mar 04 2011 at 10:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Quanta wrote:
cquintela wrote:
Quanta wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
It feels now like we're all just being strung along.


How are we being strung along? Aside from the initial investment of $30-$40, we're not paying a penny for the service being offered, they're trying their damnedest to please their fanbase as quickly as they can, and we have absolutely no obligations--social, contractual, whatever--keeping us here; SE isn't tugging on our arms and dragging us off to keep playing their game.


Why aside $30-40???? That's money! I paid for a game that was 0 content at release, we all know about it. You guys talk like SE was doing us a favor. SE sold at least 500k copies @ $40 each, that's $20M. And I should be grateful because...?
Let's clarify, SE earned $20M and we got nothing (at least nothing worth this amount).

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/35106/final-fantasy-xiv-online/


I suppose if you didn't play beta and/or completely missed all the negative feedback from testers, reviewers, and SE itself, then yeah, I could see how you would feel cheated out of $30-$40 because "OMG How could I have known?!".

If I somehow implied that we were supposed to be grateful, I apologize, because I never intended to do so. All I was saying was that everyone is here of their own free will, and isn't being forced into anything by anyone, SE especially. The fact that we're all still here means that we give enough of a sh*t about this sh*t game that we'll stick around and loudly complain about it until things change.

They earned $20mil...on a game that probably cost 5-10x that. Do the math.


That game, on that release, cost $200M? Really? DO you believe on that? I mean, really?
Yeah, but $20M should give a good start.

And I here because: game is a **** right now, but I have hope on SE, simple like that. And yeah, I played the beta, but if I remember well, they promised content at end of December...


#14 Mar 04 2011 at 10:20 AM Rating: Good
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cquintela wrote:
Hydragyrum wrote:
cquintela wrote:
Quanta wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
It feels now like we're all just being strung along.


How are we being strung along? Aside from the initial investment of $30-$40, we're not paying a penny for the service being offered, they're trying their damnedest to please their fanbase as quickly as they can, and we have absolutely no obligations--social, contractual, whatever--keeping us here; SE isn't tugging on our arms and dragging us off to keep playing their game.


Why aside $30-40???? That's money! I paid for a game that was 0 content at release, we all know about it. You guys talk like SE was doing us a favor. SE sold at least 500k copies @ $40 each, that's $20M. And I should be grateful because...?
Let's clarify, SE earned $20M and we got nothing (at least nothing worth this amount).

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/35106/final-fantasy-xiv-online/


What I don't understand is why people who bought a relatively cheap product they don't like feel the need to come to public forums and continuously bash it for months upon months. Have you never bought a bad product before? Bought a movie you didn't like, spoiled food from the grocery store, a computer that didn't last as long as it should, etc.? Why is it that buyers remorse with an MMO is SO much stronger than it is for any other product?


I'm not bashing the game, I just do not understand the mentality of buying something bad and be thankful to people who sold that to you. I never bashed the game on my post.


I didn't say you specifically, sorry for implying that. You don't have to go far to see people who are no longer even playing bashing FFXIV though.

As far as being "thankful", I don't think you've put cost of entertainment into perspective. For example:

A movie ticket, 2 hours: $10
A night at the bar/night club, 6 hours: $50
Dinner with significant other, 3 hours: $40
Single player video game, 1-2 weeks: $50

Even buying the CE on release date for $70 I've gotten months of entertainment from FFXIV. It is by far the best value for entertainment. Am I thankful that SE released a lacking game? Of course not. But I'm not going to go out and rant that my $70 was wasted, because it wasn't. As long as you've played for more than a few weeks you've gotten your money's worth.
#15 Mar 04 2011 at 10:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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KuroGawatwo wrote:

From 7 to 10 they know what they're doing.

fixed that for you
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#16 Mar 04 2011 at 10:31 AM Rating: Good
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cquintela wrote:
That game, on that release, cost $200M? Really? DO you believe on that? I mean, really?
Yeah, but $20M should give a good start.


Probably not $200mil, but I'd guess that $60-$100mil isn't out of the question. The point is that they were in the red at launch, and have remained there ever since, or they wouldn't have taken the measures they've taken.

Quote:
And I here because: game is a sh*t right now, but I have hope on SE, simple like that.


Exactly. Everyone is here out of faith, and faith alone. It's a gamble to spend money on faith, because we don't know what's going to happen. If you feel that your faith was misplaced, and your money wasted as a result, then accept that as true, suck it up, and move on. Or don't; it's up to you.

Quote:
And yeah, I played the beta, but if I remember well, they promised content at end of December...


Which they delivered on with various NMs and ****, as I recall. That was back when Tanaka thought he could just sit back and let the game proceed like FFXI did for years. He was replaced later that same month, as you may recall.
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#17 Mar 04 2011 at 10:36 AM Rating: Good
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Hydragyrum wrote:
What I don't understand is why people who bought a relatively cheap product they don't like feel the need to come to public forums and continuously bash it for months upon months. Have you never bought a bad product before? Bought a movie you didn't like, spoiled food from the grocery store, a computer that didn't last as long as it should, etc.? Why is it that buyers remorse with an MMO is SO much stronger than it is for any other product?


Because the angsty teens need to make sure everyone knows they're there. They need all the attention they can get even if it's negative. Also it's much easier for them to sit in front of their computer and whine than it is to say... Go gripe at the local movie theater for a month after seeing a bad movie.

As you said, this product is relatively cheap. The only people it may not be cheap for is the under ~15 crowd living at their parent's home with no income. For anyone else it's less than 1 day's work, and probably cheaper than one night out with the wife/girlfriend. Presumably it SHOULD offer more entertainment than a night out (aside from the end of the night of course), therefore a worthy purchase. Anyone who has played the game for 10+ hours has gotten their money's worth compared to nearly any other videogame out there or even if you went and saw 5 different movies.

Everyone thinks they're entitled to faster updates and more content with the faster updates just because one day they will have to pay to play the game. You're not entitled to anything. You're one of a million different people who bought the game. Granted, 90% probably still think the game needs work, but buying a game does not make you a shareholder of SE so stop demanding they fix the game faster or more tailored to you (you is directed towards any one of the people upset by the state of the game). Because of people's higher-than-should-have-been expectations for the game, and the lower-than-par state the game was released in, it's just asking for trouble. Most forums are more than 50% trolling, at least on ZAM it's less than that!

Rate me down if you want (lolkarma) but what I say is the truth even if I didn't say it in the nicest way
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#18 Mar 05 2011 at 5:28 AM Rating: Good
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Cadant wrote:
Hydragyrum wrote:
What I don't understand is why people who bought a relatively cheap product they don't like feel the need to come to public forums and continuously bash it for months upon months. Have you never bought a bad product before? Bought a movie you didn't like, spoiled food from the grocery store, a computer that didn't last as long as it should, etc.? Why is it that buyers remorse with an MMO is SO much stronger than it is for any other product?


Because the angsty teens need to make sure everyone knows they're there. They need all the attention they can get even if it's negative. Also it's much easier for them to sit in front of their computer and whine than it is to say... Go gripe at the local movie theater for a month after seeing a bad movie.

As you said, this product is relatively cheap. The only people it may not be cheap for is the under ~15 crowd living at their parent's home with no income. For anyone else it's less than 1 day's work, and probably cheaper than one night out with the wife/girlfriend. Presumably it SHOULD offer more entertainment than a night out (aside from the end of the night of course), therefore a worthy purchase. Anyone who has played the game for 10+ hours has gotten their money's worth compared to nearly any other videogame out there or even if you went and saw 5 different movies.

Everyone thinks they're entitled to faster updates and more content with the faster updates just because one day they will have to pay to play the game. You're not entitled to anything. You're one of a million different people who bought the game. Granted, 90% probably still think the game needs work, but buying a game does not make you a shareholder of SE so stop demanding they fix the game faster or more tailored to you (you is directed towards any one of the people upset by the state of the game). Because of people's higher-than-should-have-been expectations for the game, and the lower-than-par state the game was released in, it's just asking for trouble. Most forums are more than 50% trolling, at least on ZAM it's less than that!

Rate me down if you want (lolkarma) but what I say is the truth even if I didn't say it in the nicest way


It's not about price, is about respect for the fans. Compare a game series that have a lot of fans and a long background history to a night at the club it's just not right...
#19 Mar 05 2011 at 5:55 AM Rating: Decent
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KuroGawatwo wrote:
ok, by those analogies, this is like vista coming with no browser, no media player, no accessories and no drivers, and in black and white.

It's like Monet knocking out his water lillies then, announcing a new project, he paints a picture of a cat on a skateboard in felt tip.

Beethoven, after belting out his 9th symphony with tears of joy, decides to write 'who let the dogs out' under the fake name 'Baha Men'. It doesn't make sense. Meh



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uX-6XfK62c



Edited, Mar 5th 2011 6:56am by UncleRuckusForLife
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#20 Mar 05 2011 at 7:22 AM Rating: Good
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I think we have a classic example of the new development mentality of just "patch after release" that severely backfired in S-E's face. I do feel that this specific example was caused by the higher ups, not the original Dev team however.
We're seeing this more and more; Fallout New Vegas was a TERRIBLY glitchy game that really ****** a lot of people off, until it was patched about 2 months after it released.

I think the reason we keep seeing people so upset about this game is being an MMO, its more of an INVESTMENT than any other game. Fallout NV could be rushed through and traded back to Game Stop, but an MMO is a 1-10 year commitment. While i agree with a lot of what people are saying on here, I do think that people saying there was no content at launch is a bit ridiculous. There are 7 combat classes to level, a ton of gathering and crafting professions, and the full set of storyline quests were implemented through level 50. Yeah, there were no instances or end-game content, but I think had the game been released when it should have been (like now or in a couple months), we'd be seeing more focus on endgame content instead of fixing bugs and issues.
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#21 Mar 05 2011 at 7:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I think we have a classic example of the new development mentality of just "patch after release" that severely backfired in S-E's face. I do feel that this specific example was caused by the higher ups, not the original Dev team however.


I don't know if it's even that, it's 6 months later and the game is still terrible. I think it was more trying to make the game as cheap as possible, and they still are...even when they are trying to fix it they are doing it cheap. The rate they are working it will take literally years to get it up to standard and by then FFXIV will look very old and the competition will be really too strong and new to pull many back.

Edited, Mar 5th 2011 8:36am by preludes
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#22 Mar 05 2011 at 7:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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I have to admit, I'm disappointed in this game. Honestly, I bought a $2300 computer just to play this game.

I have serious doubts that they can turn this game around, simply because of the very essence of the game, which is so crafting concentric. I know some people love the crafting aspect, but to me, in it's current form, it's incredibly tedious, repetitive, boring. While they have taken strides to improve the crafting routine, there is just nothing fun about pounding out 350 yew half masks for R43 carpenter, and I have 7 levels, 623,000 SP remaining to get to R50). To complicate this, there is no economic incentive for this, as gil is essentially worthless. So, aside from being able to make the items you want/need, or repair your own armor/weapons, what's the driving force? Also, they really need to take some of the random aspect from the crafting code out. I swear yew half masks were just as miserable to make @ R42 as they were @ R35. Constant fails, more than every other synth going unstable, using every ability I have just to make these, more often than not.

I bet if they took a player poll between battle and crafting, 75-85% of players would chose battle over craft. Hopefully, we'll see. Unless SE addresses this soon, they should prepare for massive server consolidation. All the mechanical fixes, UI improvements, screen cosmetics, and yes, even content don't amount to much other than lipstick on the proverbial pig.

The other main ingredient severely lacking is the social aspect. Other than a quick party up for behest, and a "See you again." ten minutes later, or a few nice people I've met that helped me with an item synth or repair, I've made zero friends in this game, unlike ffxi where I had literally hundreds of friends. No mail or message capability, no LS messages, no LS sacks (my LS is comprised of primarily ffxi friends, who, essentially have all quit. In the meantime, we can't even pearl new members. They say they're coming back, we'll see.)

I'm truly saddened when I run thru the empty streets of Gridania or LL, or I see a brand new player just beginning this game. Little does he know.

All that said, how many of you were around for the introduction of ffxi? I don't mean the U.S. release either - the true JP introduction. I doubt many. I can only imagine that game had major issues, as well. I don't ever recall SE being particularly sensitive to players' input. I'm very impressed with Yoshi and his team, and the receptiveness and openess they have demonstrated. Don't count this team out. I'm not. I believe they'll get it right in the long haul. In the meantime, I'm not knocking myself out playing this game. A few leves, a little crafting and some logging. When I've had enough, I log out.

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#23 Mar 05 2011 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good
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All fair arguments guys.

I guess I'm still just disappointed in it all, and feel it's such a shame that SE got it so wrong. I accept people ***** up, that's life, but it's very strange for a vastly experienced team to ****** up the core elements so badly. 8 or so years perfecting and tweaking FFXI really should have taught them how not to do it second time round. But that argument is done and dusted so i'll shut up now.

Gotta keep looking to the future. Here's hoping 'the coming danger' or whatever it is they keep going on about kicks the game into life.

I also really think creating level requirements for gear is a massively underestimated change they need to make asap. It's one of those subconscious things that makes you go, 'just one more hour and I'll be there... then I can look pimp as f@uk and get out out of these leather shorts'.
#24 Mar 05 2011 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
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I think their biggest mistake was trying not to make it 'ffxi like'. personally I would have been ok with a structure like ffxi. I mean the game was successful for a reason right?

All in all, I think the game is going in the right direction and will be buying it this week. SE has acknowledged there mistake and now they have no choice but to clean it up no matter how much money or time it will cost. Why? Because they're SE and they have a reputation to uphold. And right now it's on the line.
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#25 Mar 05 2011 at 4:40 PM Rating: Good
One of the many things I have to see before I return to the game is those Chocobos and Airships activated. Before that happens, though, they have to have somewhere to actually take you.
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#26 Mar 05 2011 at 4:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Not one single MMO is complete at launch. The whole point is that they evolve.

The only tragedy is the unrealistic expectations due to the instant gratification culture that exists today.

Was this game perfect at launch? By no means. Does it need work? Of course. Are they actively working on it? You betcha.

I agree, this game was released 6 months too early. Since then, it's come a long way. If they launched with the current state of the game, I certainly wouldn't complain.

What's there not to get? MMOs take work and are about working with the community, both as a player and as a game developer. If you want to start a game maxed out with the best equipment, maybe you should dust off your Game Genie or download a PS emulator and crack some ROMs.
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#27 Mar 05 2011 at 4:56 PM Rating: Good
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volta1 wrote:
Not one single MMO is complete at launch. The whole point is that they evolve.

The only tragedy is the unrealistic expectations due to the instant gratification culture that exists today.

Was this game perfect at launch? By no means. Does it need work? Of course. Are they actively working on it? You betcha.

I agree, this game was released 6 months too early. Since then, it's come a long way. If they launched with the current state of the game, I certainly wouldn't complain.

What's there not to get? MMOs take work and are about working with the community, both as a player and as a game developer. If you want to start a game maxed out with the best equipment, maybe you should dust off your Game Genie or download a PS emulator and crack some ROMs.


SE released this game as it was exactly because of people like you. If you're content with so little and willing to bend over backwards to excuse the biggest MMO joke of the decade (maybe ever?), more power to you.

But really, the expectation that no matter how incomplete, ill-conceived, half-baked the game would be, people like you would preach tolerance and understanding of poor SE and its Herculean efforts... they expected everyone to be like you.

"It's Final Fantasy on the box. They'll play it no matter what."
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#28 Mar 05 2011 at 5:00 PM Rating: Default
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hexaemeron wrote:
"It's Final Fantasy on the box. They'll come complain on fansites even though they don't like or play the game."

Fixed for you.
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#29 Mar 05 2011 at 5:02 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Ever since alpha I've wondered why FFXIV failed to implement some of the basic, enjoyable features that had been present in FFXI for years. Does SE just never learn from their previous games what people do and do not like?
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#30 Mar 05 2011 at 5:04 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Not one single MMO is complete at launch. The whole point is that they evolve.

The only tragedy is the unrealistic expectations due to the instant gratification culture that exists today.

Was this game perfect at launch? By no means. Does it need work? Of course. Are they actively working on it? You betcha.

I agree, this game was released 6 months too early. Since then, it's come a long way. If they launched with the current state of the game, I certainly wouldn't complain.

What's there not to get? MMOs take work and are about working with the community, both as a player and as a game developer. If you want to start a game maxed out with the best equipment, maybe you should dust off your Game Genie or download a PS emulator and crack some ROMs.


People do not accept this level of mediocrity anymore, that's the reality of business. FF14 was made cheaply and it shows. If a new resaurant opens people don't let it slide if the meals are not cooked properly, taste horrible or the cutlery is all dirty. "We just laucned" doesn't cut it, a new MMO lauching so unforgivably poorly when there are so many other companies begging for the subscribers that try harder for them is not acceptable and they are payng for their arrogance.
Quote:


I agree, this game was released 6 months too early.


It's 6 months since launch, the game is still far far off launch quality.
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#31 Mar 05 2011 at 5:05 PM Rating: Good
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volta1 wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:
"It's Final Fantasy on the box. They'll come complain on fansites even though they don't like or play the game."

Fixed for you.


You're absolutely right. I don't like the game. At all. You know why?

I've played it.

And if you'll notice from my signature, I do, in fact, own the game. (I bought it for $19.99 on clearance) and I've checked in after every patch to keep abreast of progress. I'm STOKED for you that you're enjoying killing the same mob thousands of times over and over again with a cutscene here and there. Seriously, I'm wetting my panties for you because you're having a blast.

However, the vast majority of people who are interested in MMOs, interested in FFMMOs and past FFXI players think this game is dead, boring, flat, devoid of anything dynamic or remotely entertaining.

But hey, it's almost fully-functional. Congrats on that.
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#32 Mar 05 2011 at 5:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Veagan wrote:
I think their biggest mistake was trying not to make it 'ffxi like'. personally I would have been ok with a structure like ffxi. I mean the game was successful for a reason right?

All in all, I think the game is going in the right direction and will be buying it this week. SE has acknowledged there mistake and now they have no choice but to clean it up no matter how much money or time it will cost. Why? Because they're SE and they have a reputation to uphold. And right now it's on the line.


People still complain that SE recycled FFXI's races and just changed the names. Making it even more FFXI-like would likely only garner far more ******** and moaning than we're already seeing (even if the game would be in a better state).
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#33 Mar 05 2011 at 5:14 PM Rating: Decent
They had years to develop this game with so much knowledge from older titles. They created the worst FF ever and the problem is not about aesthetics fixes. The game core is bad. Maps are lots of bland. There might be a fix for this in 5 years but not now, not in 1 year or 2.

Half year passed and there's no chocobo. I applaud you guys for believing in the game still. Either you are true fans of FF or Square or naive as ****.

Anyway i'm not pleased at all since i bought a retail copy. What really drives me mad is that FFXI doesn't accept normal international cards or use this click and buy feature. I would be back to FFXI for more 5 years considering how bad FF14 is. But that stupid secure card crap and never accepting american express really makes square a ****** in MMORPG gaming.

Even crap MMOs accept american express or non secure CCs. Why I cant pay to FF11 the same way I paid ff14???

**** you Square.
#34 Mar 05 2011 at 5:22 PM Rating: Decent
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preludes wrote:
Quote:
Not one single MMO is complete at launch. The whole point is that they evolve.

The only tragedy is the unrealistic expectations due to the instant gratification culture that exists today.

Was this game perfect at launch? By no means. Does it need work? Of course. Are they actively working on it? You betcha.

I agree, this game was released 6 months too early. Since then, it's come a long way. If they launched with the current state of the game, I certainly wouldn't complain.

What's there not to get? MMOs take work and are about working with the community, both as a player and as a game developer. If you want to start a game maxed out with the best equipment, maybe you should dust off your Game Genie or download a PS emulator and crack some ROMs.


People do not accept this level of mediocrity anymore, that's the reality of business. FF14 was made cheaply and it shows. If a new resaurant opens people don't let it slide if the meals are not cooked properly, taste horrible or the cutlery is all dirty. "We just laucned" doesn't cut it, a new MMO lauching so unforgivably poorly when there are so many other companies begging for the subscribers that try harder for them is not acceptable and they are payng for their arrogance.
Quote:


I agree, this game was released 6 months too early.


It's 6 months since launch, the game is still far far off launch quality.


hexaemeron wrote:
volta1 wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:
"It's Final Fantasy on the box. They'll come complain on fansites even though they don't like or play the game."

Fixed for you.


You're absolutely right. I don't like the game. At all. You know why?

I've played it.

And if you'll notice from my signature, I do, in fact, own the game. (I bought it for $19.99 on clearance) and I've checked in after every patch to keep abreast of progress. I'm STOKED for you that you're enjoying killing the same mob thousands of times over and over again with a cutscene here and there. Seriously, I'm wetting my panties for you because you're having a blast.

However, the vast majority of people who are interested in MMOs, interested in FFMMOs and past FFXI players think this game is dead, boring, flat, devoid of anything dynamic or remotely entertaining.

But hey, it's almost fully-functional. Congrats on that.


I've played too. I have not grinded the same mobs over and over as you imply, or I would've hit 50 a long time ago. I find the game fun. You clearly don't, and that's cool, no one forces you to or thinks any less of you. You're entitled to your opinion, but I find it comical how you won't "tolerate" the game, yet take time out of your day to come complain about it. It's a game - nothing more. If you don't like it, that's fine, but why are you here, lobbing insults at the people who do?

What other MMOs (that haven't overtly ripped off every single innovation Blizzard has made in the past 8 years) were even close to remotely successful, at launch or otherwise? Let me give you a hint: none. So just relax, and please don't infringe upon people who are having a good time. Cheers
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#35 Mar 05 2011 at 5:26 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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volta1 wrote:
What other MMOs (that haven't overtly ripped off every single innovation Blizzard has made in the past 8 years) were even close to remotely successful, at launch or otherwise?
volta1 wrote:
implying Blizzard didn't just rip off EQ and put the same concepts into a more recognizable IP to attract a non-traditional MMO crowd to the genre

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If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
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#36 Mar 05 2011 at 5:31 PM Rating: Decent
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volta1 wrote:
preludes wrote:
Quote:
Not one single MMO is complete at launch. The whole point is that they evolve.

The only tragedy is the unrealistic expectations due to the instant gratification culture that exists today.

Was this game perfect at launch? By no means. Does it need work? Of course. Are they actively working on it? You betcha.

I agree, this game was released 6 months too early. Since then, it's come a long way. If they launched with the current state of the game, I certainly wouldn't complain.

What's there not to get? MMOs take work and are about working with the community, both as a player and as a game developer. If you want to start a game maxed out with the best equipment, maybe you should dust off your Game Genie or download a PS emulator and crack some ROMs.


People do not accept this level of mediocrity anymore, that's the reality of business. FF14 was made cheaply and it shows. If a new resaurant opens people don't let it slide if the meals are not cooked properly, taste horrible or the cutlery is all dirty. "We just laucned" doesn't cut it, a new MMO lauching so unforgivably poorly when there are so many other companies begging for the subscribers that try harder for them is not acceptable and they are payng for their arrogance.
Quote:


I agree, this game was released 6 months too early.


It's 6 months since launch, the game is still far far off launch quality.


hexaemeron wrote:
volta1 wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:
"It's Final Fantasy on the box. They'll come complain on fansites even though they don't like or play the game."

Fixed for you.


You're absolutely right. I don't like the game. At all. You know why?

I've played it.

And if you'll notice from my signature, I do, in fact, own the game. (I bought it for $19.99 on clearance) and I've checked in after every patch to keep abreast of progress. I'm STOKED for you that you're enjoying killing the same mob thousands of times over and over again with a cutscene here and there. Seriously, I'm wetting my panties for you because you're having a blast.

However, the vast majority of people who are interested in MMOs, interested in FFMMOs and past FFXI players think this game is dead, boring, flat, devoid of anything dynamic or remotely entertaining.

But hey, it's almost fully-functional. Congrats on that.


I've played too. I have not grinded the same mobs over and over as you imply, or I would've hit 50 a long time ago. I find the game fun. You clearly don't, and that's cool, no one forces you to or thinks any less of you. You're entitled to your opinion, but I find it comical how you won't "tolerate" the game, yet take time out of your day to come complain about it. It's a game - nothing more. If you don't like it, that's fine, but why are you here, lobbing insults at the people who do?

What other MMOs (that haven't overtly ripped off every single innovation Blizzard has made in the past 8 years) were even close to remotely successful, at launch or otherwise? Let me give you a hint: none. So just relax, and please don't infringe upon people who are having a good time. Cheers


I was very excited for this game. Ridiculously so. Until I actually touched it in Open Beta. So yeah, I freely admit sour grapes here to an extent.

That being said, this wasn't a case of "We misjudged the public interest" -- This was "We didn't give a crap about the public interest" to the point of shouting it from the rooftops that the developers didn't play other MMOs, didn't know or care what anyone else was doing. Which is great if you're offline FF developer Square-Enix. However, not only were they so wildly off the mark to have careened off the road and over a cliff with this game, they compounded this by releasing the game only to beat Cataclysm and get the box sales into their FY annual earnings reporting. They would ABSOLUTELY have charged for this game if the justified crapstorm backlash over the state of the game hadn't happened and only THEN decided to go into damage control mode.

They knew very well the state of the game and didn't care if their loyal customers were happy with it. So, with all of that, it continues to confound me that anyone can defend SE or this game.

Really, would you even remember this game if it didn't have the Final Fantasy name in it? Would you even know of it? Would you play it?

I'll give you a hint. No. No to ALL of those.

Besides, it really says something when pimpslapping fanbois is more fun than actually logging in and playing the game in question.

Edited, Mar 5th 2011 6:32pm by hexaemeron
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#37 Mar 05 2011 at 5:32 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
volta1 wrote:
What other MMOs (that haven't overtly ripped off every single innovation Blizzard has made in the past 8 years) were even close to remotely successful, at launch or otherwise?
volta1 wrote:
implying Blizzard didn't just rip off EQ and put the same concepts into a more recognizable IP to attract a non-traditional MMO crowd to the genre



I didn't write that second quote.

In any event, I know what you're getting at. What I should've said "what other MMOs since WoW..."

Yes, EQ was successful. But what use is it in comparing a "2010 MMO" to a "2000 MMO". I always read how this launch wasn't acceptable for "2010 standards". Having only played 2 MMOs ever (and the first was not FFXI) I come with what I feel is a much cleaner slate.

This game isn't horribly bad, and it's certainly a whole lot better than it was at launch. It's hard for me to understand how anyone can be anything but excited in the progress that's been made and what's been announced to come. If anything, I'm fearing being let down by companies, airships, instanced content, revamped battle mechanics, and everything else Yoshida has been hyping. But that point hasn't come yet.

So either enjoy the game for what it is or what it might be, or don't. What's worse, someone who likes a "bad" game, or someone who has nothing better to do than complain about one?
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#38 Mar 05 2011 at 5:34 PM Rating: Good
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hexaemeron wrote:

Besides, it really says something when pimpslapping fanbois is more fun than actually logging in and playing the game in question.


Now there's something I can agree with - it certainly does say something! What it says, though, I'm sure we'll continue to disagree on.
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#39 Mar 05 2011 at 5:37 PM Rating: Decent
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volta1 wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:

Besides, it really says something when pimpslapping fanbois is more fun than actually logging in and playing the game in question.


Now there's something I can agree with - it certainly does say something! What it says, though, I'm sure we'll continue to disagree on.


Nothing about the rest huh? Shock. Utter, naked shock. ;)
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#40 Mar 05 2011 at 5:45 PM Rating: Good
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hexaemeron wrote:
volta1 wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:

Besides, it really says something when pimpslapping fanbois is more fun than actually logging in and playing the game in question.


Now there's something I can agree with - it certainly does say something! What it says, though, I'm sure we'll continue to disagree on.


Nothing about the rest huh? Shock. Utter, naked shock. ;)


I actually agree with a lot of the other points in your last post. Namely. that they rushed the game out the door in a horribly failed attempt to preempt Cata and to recognize some revenue in FY2010. That much is clear, and I could even dig up a post of mine from September where I posted as much. I also agree that touting their development team's 'originality' is nothing more than hubris.

But that's the past. SE appears to have recognized the errors of their ways and is doing everything they can to fix it. Again, I didn't play XI, so I'm not jaded or otherwise biased by past experiences with SE in the MMO arena. I'm taking what they're telling us at face value, for better or worse.

I was just as excited as you were about XIV before it was launched. So as you obviously know, they worked on it for about 5 years. Everyone acknowledges the launch was less than ideal by a long shot, so why does anyone expect them to be able to correct 5 years of work overnight? Or in less than 6 months for that matter?

I'll reiterate - just relax.

I'm going out now so don't delude yourself into thinking my lack of a response is a 'victory' on your part. I'm glad to see though that your subsequent posts were at least somewhat constructive to an actual discussion.
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#41 Mar 05 2011 at 5:56 PM Rating: Decent
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volta1 wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:
volta1 wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:

Besides, it really says something when pimpslapping fanbois is more fun than actually logging in and playing the game in question.


Now there's something I can agree with - it certainly does say something! What it says, though, I'm sure we'll continue to disagree on.


Nothing about the rest huh? Shock. Utter, naked shock. ;)


I actually agree with a lot of the other points in your last post. Namely. that they rushed the game out the door in a horribly failed attempt to preempt Cata and to recognize some revenue in FY2010. That much is clear, and I could even dig up a post of mine from September where I posted as much. I also agree that touting their development team's 'originality' is nothing more than hubris.

But that's the past. SE appears to have recognized the errors of their ways and is doing everything they can to fix it. Again, I didn't play XI, so I'm not jaded or otherwise biased by past experiences with SE in the MMO arena. I'm taking what they're telling us at face value, for better or worse.

I was just as excited as you were about XIV before it was launched. So as you obviously know, they worked on it for about 5 years. Everyone acknowledges the launch was less than ideal by a long shot, so why does anyone expect them to be able to correct 5 years of work overnight? Or in less than 6 months for that matter?

I'll reiterate - just relax.

I'm going out now so don't delude yourself into thinking my lack of a response is a 'victory' on your part. I'm glad to see though that your subsequent posts were at least somewhat constructive to an actual discussion.


I'm playing Rift and LOTRO now in my spare time. I don't game much but I do get a few hours here and there. I'm not worried. Honestly, now, this is like watching the trainwreck in slo-mo. I just can't look away.
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#42 Mar 05 2011 at 6:22 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm excited about the future, however I can't help but feel a bit underwhelmed by the patches we've gotten so far. Everything seems to be going very slowly. What they need to do is exceed everyone's expectations by giving us something major. Something unexpected. Not just patches with a few system/UI changes.

It does make me wonder, seeing as this game apparently has over 100 people working on it, what exactly they're doing. Especially when I keep hearing that they're "working night and day" to make this game good.
#43 Mar 05 2011 at 6:59 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
People still complain that SE recycled FFXI's races and just changed the names. Making it even more FFXI-like would likely only garner far more ******** and moaning than we're already seeing (even if the game would be in a better state).


No, I think the opposite of this is true, man.

FFXIV should have been its own game. It should have no ties to XI. The reason they simply copy/pasted races was to entice XI players to have a brand new adventure using their familiar character in a new world. While I understand that marketing device, I totally disagree with it.

It led people to the assumption that XIV would be a lot like XI. I mean, the first thin you notice is all the races are completely the same! Not even a single hairstyle is different! I think this sets up the expectation that XIV would be a lot like XI. (Why wouldn't it?)

If they had 2-3 new races as well as familiar ones it would have at least been attempting to lure XI players as well as be saying "It's a brand new world to explore! Complete with new races to play!"

It's kind of like they couldn't make a solid decision on whether or not to make XIV stand alone on its own or blend elements with XI - and they should have either made XI-2 or XIV. Not the pseudo-hybrid crap they came up with.

So the problem is they added too much XI without adding the good parts of XI.
The expectation may be different if there was absolutely nothing similar to XI at all.
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#44 Mar 05 2011 at 8:02 PM Rating: Decent
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KuroGawatwo wrote:
SE had years working on ffxi to work out whats good and whats not, right?

From 7 to 13 they know what they're doing.

11 in particular had NMs, quests, the hub of the AH, BCNMs, sub jobs, good balanced battle system, great gear at the right levels, a structured path to leveling, really varied locales, varied mob spread, awesome storyline, chatty playerbase, exciting drops, and most of all, a sense of 'adventure'.

I just don't get why 14 is so behind 11. This patch is bizarre too.

Nissan wouldn't spend 8 years making and tweaking a r34 GTR skyline then announce that they're bringing out a horse and cart saying, 'we'll put the engine, wheels and radio in next summer'.

I still just can't fathom what a mess this game is for the series and how on earth yoshi-p is going to turn it around. It's such a bloody shame as it has so much potential. I just don't get it.

As it's march with a new patch, does anyone think this game is release worthy yet?


First you also have to remember that FFXI didn't come out with all the stuff it has now. I didn't get to play it when
it first came out in the US but my roommate at the time did and he still plays XI to this day.

I know that SE was working on their new engine that is used for XIV but even then there could have been another team working
on the actual game itself. Also as another person pointed out the original developers did not look at other MMO's or even
played any. That is not a good way to design a game.

Also now that they are trying to fix things it is going to end up costing them more than the original game cost them. I honestly
just don't understand what they were thinking.
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#45 Mar 05 2011 at 8:03 PM Rating: Good
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Kirutaru wrote:
Quote:
People still complain that SE recycled FFXI's races and just changed the names. Making it even more FFXI-like would likely only garner far more ******** and moaning than we're already seeing (even if the game would be in a better state).


No, I think the opposite of this is true, man.

FFXIV should have been its own game. It should have no ties to XI. The reason they simply copy/pasted races was to entice XI players to have a brand new adventure using their familiar character in a new world. While I understand that marketing device, I totally disagree with it.

It led people to the assumption that XIV would be a lot like XI. I mean, the first thin you notice is all the races are completely the same! Not even a single hairstyle is different! I think this sets up the expectation that XIV would be a lot like XI. (Why wouldn't it?)

If they had 2-3 new races as well as familiar ones it would have at least been attempting to lure XI players as well as be saying "It's a brand new world to explore! Complete with new races to play!"

It's kind of like they couldn't make a solid decision on whether or not to make XIV stand alone on its own or blend elements with XI - and they should have either made XI-2 or XIV. Not the pseudo-hybrid crap they came up with.

So the problem is they added too much XI without adding the good parts of XI.
The expectation may be different if there was absolutely nothing similar to XI at all.


Oh by all means I think XIV should be its own game and want it to be. I didn't want to play a prettier clone of XI. I more meant that SE should have borrowed more of the things that made XI so enjoyable instead of substituting poorly thought out or implemented alternatives. It feels like they were trying too hard to be different for the sake of being different, instead of being different to give XIV a real sense of identity. I pretty much meant what you said in not so many words.
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Naiya | Mithra | Windurst | Rank 10 | 1st Lieutenant | Ragnarok
WAR: 75 MNK: 75 SAM: 66
RotZ: O | CoP: O | ToAU: O | Apoch Nigh: O

WoW
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Doubleday | B.Elf | 85 Paladin | Stormscale


#46 Mar 05 2011 at 8:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Kirutaru wrote:


The reason they simply copy/pasted races was to entice XI players to have a brand new adventure using their familiar character in a new world.


While that might have been a side benefit, I doubt it was the main reason. I believe it was simply S-E attempting to take the cheapest shortcut they could after wasting over 75% of their dev time and money on new engine. This belief is reinforced after looking at what was done with this recent patch. The "cheap shortcut" philosophy of development still appears to be in full effect.
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#47 Mar 05 2011 at 9:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Zorvan wrote:
Kirutaru wrote:


The reason they simply copy/pasted races was to entice XI players to have a brand new adventure using their familiar character in a new world.


While that might have been a side benefit, I doubt it was the main reason. I believe it was simply S-E attempting to take the cheapest shortcut they could after wasting over 75% of their dev time and money on new engine. This belief is reinforced after looking at what was done with this recent patch. The "cheap shortcut" philosophy of development still appears to be in full effect.


I'm honestly inclined to agree here.
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