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Who here LIKES non-SP/Exp P-giving quests?Follow

#1 Mar 05 2011 at 9:24 AM Rating: Default
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I'm talking specifically about FFXIV.

I personally like the fact that the new quests don't give out SP and Experience points. It makes us use levequests and behests as a primary source of SP instead of dividing it to something else. :P
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#2 Mar 05 2011 at 9:37 AM Rating: Excellent
I was ok with it before I actually set out to do one. I'd like for them to give you a small but decent amount of SP, up until the point the quest objective is met, if you do it on level appropriate job. Obviously if you steamroll a rank 10 quest with your rank 50 Lancer I wouldn't expect big SP/XP. I picked up a rank 20 quest and the NPC along the way also had a rank 30 quest in that area to complete as well so I grabbed that one as well.

I initially intended to do the rank 20 quest on my THM which is around that level and the rank 30 quest with my rank 36 PUG. But as I was running out to the area to do said quests I realized that since I wouldn't be getting any SP for my troubles why bother regearing/setting my spells when I could do all of them on my PUG and call it good. It doesn't have to offer crazy amounts of SP/XP but it should at least offer an incentive to use a level appropriate job for the quest. Smiley: twocents
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#3 Mar 05 2011 at 9:52 AM Rating: Good
I hope that later on multi-part quests finish up with a small dose of SP or something other than a NQ item and a small bit of gil. I'm ok with the current leves not having anything worth writing home about, but long multi-parters need a significant reward system to make the extensive traveling worth while. I'd even be cool if quests netted Guild Marks for whatever class you chose from... or maybe a pull down menu with an assortment of rewards...

IE (these could all scale with the effort the quest required)

500-1000 GM for any Class
Some piece of rare-ish material
A cool looking but worthless piece of gear
A decently useful gear item
Access to a previously closed off area (even if it's as simple as a NPC shop or maybe a vendor that can grant higher than common support to any class)

The list goes on and on... I don't need SP (and I'd prefer the reward wasn't for the majority of quests, but some quests DO warrant a reward of SP), but there needs to be an appropriate carrot on an appropriate stick otherwise this donkey is gonna cause a ruccus.
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#4 Mar 05 2011 at 10:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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I am fine with quests that don't give SP (as they are side-quests after all) but I am not fine with the quests being of the same quality as in MMO's where you do get exp during them and after completing them. For it to be 'acceptable' the quest quality has to reflect the fact that they don't give SP.

That is my only prerequisite. If there are sidequests that don't give SP, they need to be good enough that they are done because they are fun and flesh out the lore enough to be interesting, and the carrot is acceptable (which gear should be once all the changes are done). I would much rather have this instead of simply implementing an SP reward to the quests and keeping them as-is. This game needs quality content that doesn't revolve around getting to the cap as soon as possible, and while these quests apply for the latter, they are not what I would consider quality content.

I think a thread should be made in the official forums about this particular issue as well. As it seems there are few different opinions about this issue, a debate should prove to be fruitful.
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#5 Mar 05 2011 at 10:44 AM Rating: Good
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GIVE US GIL, when reality appropriate. Not everyone has a piece of armor that they can give us to do a quest. Don't get me wrong, unused armor = gil, but I just like to feel alittle more immersed like a npc saying " I don't have much to pay you for finding my lost son. I will give you our families most prized heirloom (item A)" Then you use (item A) to start another quest from a different NPC. What they really need to implement is the trade system from FFXI where trading to NPCs can be done. This would really open up how quests can be done. Also like others said, add behaviors to NPCs. The ones can give quest would not just have the "hey come over here" behavior but actually various behaviors for different situations. Like if a NPC just lost her child to a mob of Ixal. We should see AND HEAR her on the floor sobbing and maybe yelling up in the air, pleaing for someone to help her. If A NPC just got laid off of his job at the docks, we should see him in and alley in a drunken sorrow (which talking to him would give us a quest to try to get his job back).

SE needs to expand our cities by opening up more doors and actually have explorable NPC housing districts. Yoshi stated that the world he is try to create will have the scenario of saving the world. All I ask him is to not forget about the simple parts of everyday life that NPCs should endure in FFXIV.


Sorry for the rambling BTW
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#6 Mar 05 2011 at 10:47 AM Rating: Good
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I guess I don't mind it, but honestly I think they misunderstood what we wanted.

I don't mind EXP/SP coming from monsters related to a quest, but I didn't want quests where we were rewarded with it at the end of the quest. (Ie: an NPC giving us 500 EXP as a quest reward)
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#7 Mar 05 2011 at 11:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
I am fine with quests that don't give SP (as they are side-quests after all) but I am not fine with the quests being of the same quality as in MMO's where you do get exp during them and after completing them. For it to be 'acceptable' the quest quality has to reflect the fact that they don't give SP.

That is my only prerequisite. If there are sidequests that don't give SP, they need to be good enough that they are done because they are fun and flesh out the lore enough to be interesting, and the carrot is acceptable (which gear should be once all the changes are done). I would much rather have this instead of simply implementing an SP reward to the quests and keeping them as-is. This game needs quality content that doesn't revolve around getting to the cap as soon as possible, and while these quests apply for the latter, they are not what I would consider quality content.

I think a thread should be made in the official forums about this particular issue as well. As it seems there are few different opinions about this issue, a debate should prove to be fruitful.


I almost never agree with you, but I agree with this. Well said.
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#8 Mar 05 2011 at 12:12 PM Rating: Good
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FFXI has good quality quests that give no XP.
Other games have poor quality quests that do give XP.

FFXIV has poor quality quests that give no xp.

Hmm...
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#9 Mar 05 2011 at 12:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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ViKtoricus wrote:
I'm talking specifically about FFXIV.

I personally like the fact that the new quests don't give out SP and Experience points. It makes us use levequests and behests as a primary source of SP instead of dividing it to something else. :P


From the point of view of a DoW&M that is true. Crafters and Gatherers don't get behest every hour, perhaps they need the Battlewardens to give out assignments to crafters and gathers too. Fortify and resupply tasks.
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#10 Mar 05 2011 at 1:00 PM Rating: Good
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I also feel like quests in this are less sentimental. The only npc i can remember are Claroise and Banga Zhango because tehy're dialogue is so unique. In FFXi, i felt like quest NPCs were more "real"
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#11 Mar 05 2011 at 2:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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What is it about these quest marmots that makes them not give me sp like the exact same kind of mobs next to it?! I don't get it. I have to say my motivation to do these quests is pretty much gone after I realized there are no cutscenes to them like in XI.
#12 Mar 05 2011 at 2:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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IF "fame" is hidden and exists like in XI, I have no problems with the no xp system.

If Fame does not exist, the no SP system is simply filler for better content.
#13 Mar 05 2011 at 2:51 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
FFXI has good quality quests that give no XP.
Other games have poor quality quests that do give XP.

FFXIV has poor quality quests that give no xp.

Hmm...


You said it perfectly Mikhalia.

These quests are like WoWs quests, except without EXP.
I love questing in FFXI but I feel no desire to do these quests. I'm still glad they were added, as I said in a previous thread poor content is still content.

I think these side quests should give exp. Minimally though, what's really wrong with 500 SP? There would never be a good way to level on these but its still nice to see that little bump because you accomplished something. A sheepskin subligar doesn't make you feel like you accomplished something.

I know a lot of MMOs have this, but what's wrong with showing your fame increase as well?
If you do a quest in gridania I don't think theres something materially wrong with saying "Your standing with the citizens of Gridania has increased" to know who noticed your actions. Faction messages are not new, and not from WoW, everquest I had them, as have lots of oldschool RPGs. FFXI had its faction (called Fame) but you didn't know you were receiving it initially.

I like seeing that my quests progress or advanced my character, not just a copper ore reward and +1 unknown fame that you didn't know you were getting until you get to Jeuno and other players tell you about it.


Also ... if quests don't give exp, the mobs you kill should. In what roleplay sense does it make sense to kill a tough mob for no apparent reason and get stronger, but killing the same (perhaps stronger) mob to save someone, or protect, or gather something, does not make you stronger or better at your trade? I'd also be ok with Quests being sorta like leves, where the mobs give somewhat increased exp.


It's also one thing for storyline quests to not give exp. Their reward is progression, and gil, and ... cinematics!
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#14 Mar 05 2011 at 3:44 PM Rating: Decent
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AnnabelleCloud wrote:
ViKtoricus wrote:
I'm talking specifically about FFXIV.

I personally like the fact that the new quests don't give out SP and Experience points. It makes us use levequests and behests as a primary source of SP instead of dividing it to something else. :P


From the point of view of a DoW&M that is true. Crafters and Gatherers don't get behest every hour, perhaps they need the Battlewardens to give out assignments to crafters and gathers too. Fortify and resupply tasks.

this is the exact reason why i dont like it, i suppose our views are exact polar opposites.
i dont believe any quest should give SP/EXP rewards, however no SP/EXP from mobs is out of this world to me. i believe getting SP/EXP from NPC quest mobs adds veriety and since there is a limited amount of quests per rank, it wouldnt mean anyone would be able to exploit them for ranking progression. plus anyone who played FFXI would say that not every quest involves fighting mobs so again its not like it would make people skip behests and levequests because theyre doing so well in NPC questing. plus even if a quest did involve fighting mobs, why not just make the amount of mobs there are limited are gimp theyre exp, i just dont want to spend 20 minutes walking and fighting mobs with nothing but the resolution of the NPCs dilemma.
to me there should be several different ways to encounter mobs to add to your exp bar, whether it be dungeon crawls, fetch qusts via floating rocks or blank gazers, behest, or any other battle event.
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#15 Mar 05 2011 at 4:01 PM Rating: Default
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When i first read the Side-quest outline in the patch notes i noticed no quest monsters give SP/eXP. Initially i thought; "Ok, that must mean they are rewarding it at the end".

Unfortunately (not that i even ask for SP/EXP from quests), is that you get NEITHER. I understand they don't want us to exploit the abundance of quest monsters some of these quests have for SP/EXP.
(So now here's another problem that SE needs to address, and fast)

These are nothing more than a waste of time unless you're a complete newb with not much armor/gil.

They asked us not to expect much and to "wait" for more & more patches to add on to these. Now it's time to logout and wait for the rest of the March patch. Since they seem so confident about the rest of the lolContent coming.

Edited, Mar 5th 2011 5:05pm by Xivectro
#16 Mar 05 2011 at 4:30 PM Rating: Good
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i wouldn't mind getting at least a little bit of exp for quests. just don't make it the main way to get exp.

besides, it does make more sense to get exp from actually adventuring then randomly making certain mobs go extinct.
#17 Mar 05 2011 at 5:02 PM Rating: Good
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I'm willing to bet when the quest mobs begin to yield SP/EXP (patch 1.16b maybe?) like normal mobs their level should, people will complain that's too little SP/EXP. I will throw one Lala'fellskin subligar as the bet.
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#18 Mar 05 2011 at 5:22 PM Rating: Decent
AnnabelleCloud wrote:
ViKtoricus wrote:
I'm talking specifically about FFXIV.

I personally like the fact that the new quests don't give out SP and Experience points. It makes us use levequests and behests as a primary source of SP instead of dividing it to something else. :P


From the point of view of a DoW&M that is true. Crafters and Gatherers don't get behest every hour, perhaps they need the Battlewardens to give out assignments to crafters and gathers too. Fortify and resupply tasks.

THat is actually a very good idea! :o
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#19 Mar 05 2011 at 5:49 PM Rating: Decent
Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
THat is actually a very good idea! :o


30 minutes after the Battlewarden appears, the Battlecraft Warden appears. At this time it would be best for those needing repairs to gather near as well because there's nothing better to do in the 4ish minute window before the behest begins. Sounds like a win win to me.

Should be very entertaining to see the coding required for that :p The Behest currently AFIAK take into account the amount of people and possibly the ranks of said people and then spits out a set of mobs. It doesn't have to take into account what classes make up the party and it doesn't have to decide what mats to disperse to who etc... Still I'd really like to see something similar to that implimented in some fashion.
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#20 Mar 05 2011 at 9:41 PM Rating: Good
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ViKtoricus wrote:
I'm talking specifically about FFXIV.

I personally like the fact that the new quests don't give out SP and Experience points. It makes us use levequests and behests as a primary source of SP instead of dividing it to something else. :P


I don't think you necessarily should get SP as a Quest Reward, but you should still get the normal amount of SP for killing the monster! And if you are agianst getting 100 SP and think that is some kind of massive bonus you are really masochistic.
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#21 Mar 05 2011 at 10:30 PM Rating: Default
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NayliaMR wrote:
ViKtoricus wrote:
I'm talking specifically about FFXIV.

I personally like the fact that the new quests don't give out SP and Experience points. It makes us use levequests and behests as a primary source of SP instead of dividing it to something else. :P


I don't think you necessarily should get SP as a Quest Reward, but you should still get the normal amount of SP for killing the monster! And if you are agianst getting 100 SP and think that is some kind of massive bonus you are really masochistic.


I don't mind getting points from quest monsters, but what I DON'T like is when the developers decide to EVENLY DIVIDE OVERALL POINTS GAINED FROM QUESTS, GUILDLEVES, AND BEHESTS. If the SP gains in quests become existent, that is fine for me, but I don't want SE to sabotage guildleve and behest points for an attempt to balance things out...
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#22 Mar 05 2011 at 10:46 PM Rating: Good
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I think it's stupid, personally. It's one thing to not add an additional bonus, but removing normal benefits of gameplay draws attention to what they are deliberately removing. In a game that already suffers from progression that is generally too slow, it's a total miss.
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#23 Mar 06 2011 at 3:35 AM Rating: Good
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I think people wouldn't complain about the no sp rule if the quests themselves were rewarding like the ones in XI.
You always got fame, maps, scrolls or something important for completing them. Most importantly the quest cutscenes and storylines were the main reason to see the storylines unfold. To me that was the biggest reward. Gear and scrolls could be bought and sold anyway but the memories were for life.
#24 Mar 06 2011 at 3:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
You always got fame, maps, scrolls or something important for completing them.


What am I reading..........

This, though, is what should be improved if they want to retain the no SP rule:

Quote:
Most importantly the quest cutscenes and storylines were the main reason to see the storylines unfold.


If we got 18 quests of this kind of quality in one patch, I'd rather have 6 quests or 3x the quality that build up over-time.
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#25 Mar 06 2011 at 3:50 AM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
You always got fame, maps, scrolls or something important for completing them.


What am I reading..........

This, though, is what should be improved if they want to retain the no SP rule:

Quote:
Most importantly the quest cutscenes and storylines were the main reason to see the storylines unfold.


If we got 18 quests of this kind of quality in one patch, I'd rather have 6 quests or 3x the quality that build up over-time.



I'm saying that quest rewards in XI were more important to the player than a pair of weathered lvl10 pants.

I fully agree with you that I'd rather have just few well made quests with cutscenes than a dozen filler ones.
At least they would give me hope of what's to come because
if this is any indication of what's to come the quests are going to be so meaningless that they're not enough to keep me playing. And quests ARE the main reason I like XI people can throw around words like "mini" or "side" but XI quests are well made, many of them are just as compelling as the storyline missions.
#26 Mar 06 2011 at 4:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'm saying that quest rewards in XI were more important to the player than a pair of weathered lvl10 pants.


Well, yes, the few that gave good rewards..

I mean I wouldn't say 'never' because that's just as false but it was definitely closer to never than always. Or simply too situational. For a large part it was okay though, because they were well-crafted otherwise.
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#27 Mar 06 2011 at 8:54 AM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
I'm saying that quest rewards in XI were more important to the player than a pair of weathered lvl10 pants.


Well, yes, the few that gave good rewards..

I mean I wouldn't say 'never' because that's just as false but it was definitely closer to never than always. Or simply too situational. For a large part it was okay though, because they were well-crafted otherwise.


Some of the most valuable items can only be gained through quests that were unlockable only through high fame.
Even when turning in a bastore sardine in windy the fame-up was a bigger reward than whatever the current quests are offering.

XI rewards: xp-through farming some quest items, fame, maps, cutscenes with beautiful music and compelling dialogue, scrolls, access to new quests and areas and so forth
XIV rewards: semi-useless gear, no sp when killing enemies that are exactly like every other mob that gives sp, no cutscenes, sub-par writing that you don't even have to read because you can just follow the arrows pointing to next destination, no music, no cutscenes

It's just very frustrating to see these issues after the critique the public and the press have given for XIII and XIV.

I know much of the XI plot was written by Xenogears and Chrono-series writer and better writing in general is a lot to ask, but can't they just hire THAT guy?! A scenario director to make some camera pans would be a good investment too.

Gah it's just so frustrating, like trying to make a fat boy do ballet. You can make him jump but you can't make him do it in a way that pleases anyone.
#28 Mar 06 2011 at 9:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Some of the most valuable items can only be gained through quests that were unlockable only through high fame.


Well, yes, XI had both extremes as far as reward (and the effort to obtain them) went. XIV is more of the stable type (yet is only getting better with multiple choices of item rewards coming). Aside from the quality of storytelling, XI quests were never anything amazing (although the rewards tended to get slightly better as time went on).

More importantly, XI team could focus on content while the XIV team is rehauling aspects of the game one couldn't even think of being possible in XI. That is the most obvious reason why the quests of 1.16 are what they are, whether we like it or not. Before they are done, you can always expect better quests but they are not coming. The only way is to decrease the amount of total quests in any given patch for the sake of more resources available per a single quest. They will no doubt get better at this once they've done it long enough but only when they're done with rehauling the game itself are you going to see a real increase in the quality.

There is nothing particularly surprising about this. Nobody is telling you to play the game before they are done with whatever they are about to do. The quest quality will increase as the result, there is no doubt about it and there is no reason why it wouldn't.

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Edited, Mar 6th 2011 6:08pm by Hyanmen
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#29 Mar 08 2011 at 7:33 AM Rating: Decent
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When killing regular mobs you can only kill them one at a time or you risk decreasing/negating the EXP/SP on the mobs other than your main target. This forces you to make sure you just fight the mobs one at a time.

With the quests you're required to acquire multiple items which drop off mobs. By removing the EXP/SP rewards from these mobs they've encouraged AoE farming of them.
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#30 Mar 08 2011 at 7:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Personally I think that leves give us enough of both SP/EXP and Gil and as such was not expecting any of these as quest rewards. I was expecting to get SP from fighting the quest mobs but not very concerned we dont get that either.

From the little that I've seen the quest rewards aren't that memorable and since these appear to be the only rewards I'm a bit disapointed with them. I was really hoping for some kind of fame ladder that we could climb with these quests.
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#31 Mar 08 2011 at 8:07 AM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
FFXI has good quality quests that give no XP.
Other games have poor quality quests that do give XP.

FFXIV has poor quality quests that give no xp.

Hmm...


Agreed. Give me some reason to do the quest. if its not XP, give me quality rewards. Give me a decent story along the way. Give me more interesting objectives than levequests.
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#32 Mar 08 2011 at 10:36 AM Rating: Good
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When I can get nearly 1k SP from a single mob in a leve soloing, I have absolutely no need for quests to give SP.

However, with that being said, I would like to see more quests that are more then kill-quests. And as people have pointed out, some cut-scenes, and a little more back-story. The Class Quests are more inline with what I am hoping for in future quests.
#33 Mar 08 2011 at 10:50 AM Rating: Default
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Who likes quests that give no rewards?

Asians, role players, huge nerds, cosplay furries, and the OP.

I thought this was America?
#34 Mar 08 2011 at 12:49 PM Rating: Good
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I don't need SP, nor a good item at the end. The main reason I enjoyed quests in XI was for the cutscenes....

The ones we now have in XIV are.... disappointing, to say the least. I did one 'regularly', reading all the text. Got disappointed, looked info on quest locations on the net, picked every one & finished them while zooming through useless text at a lightspeed. Funny how some silly cinematic can make all the difference.

In my opinion, the devs are still doing it wrong with the whole -immersion- issue that people have been stressing about and which the devs said they acknowledged.
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