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Reopening Beta Test.Follow

#1 Mar 07 2011 at 1:42 AM Rating: Good
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How many of you who purchased CE or SE will be against of SE making the client available for download and playing until they start charging for the service?
(Of course, that people will need to purchase a license to keep playing after that)

I think it could breath some life to our servers and will give the chance to actual subscribers to share the game with all those friends who many not be willing to purchase a copy, besides groups will be easier to make outside of established linkshells.

What do you think?

Ken
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#2 Mar 07 2011 at 2:05 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
How many of you who purchased CE or SE will be against of SE making the client available for download and playing until they start charging for the service?


I think that's actually a decent idea, especially if all beta testers must have a SE account, and also if downloadable beta software must be purchased (unlocked with a registration code through the SE account interface) once the PS3 launch arrives.
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#3 Mar 07 2011 at 2:07 AM Rating: Good
That could actually work, would be one **** of an initial download thoughSmiley: lol

People might also be willing to put down the money for the game once it goes live if they have a character invested in it and possibly a linkshell with some friends. I mean we can't lie and say this isn't some sort of extended Beta, so while a few months ago I would have said you are insane I can see your point.
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#4 Mar 07 2011 at 2:08 AM Rating: Decent
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I think people should just buy the game. It acts as an initial filter to let people join who actually have a decent interest. If you open it free for download, then I don't think you'll get a breath of fresh air, but more likely a stench of trolls, people who have no interest in the game, "wow this game sucks" shout spamm and ofcourse the free reign of RMT and botters.
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#5 Mar 07 2011 at 2:08 AM Rating: Default
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kenage wrote:
How many of you who purchased CE or SE will be against of SE making the client available for download and playing until they start charging for the service?
(Of course, that people will need to purchase a license to keep playing after that)

I think it could breath some life to our servers and will give the chance to actual subscribers to share the game with all those friends who many not be willing to purchase a copy, besides groups will be easier to make outside of established linkshells.

What do you think?

Ken


If S-E did this, I would hope a full refund for everyone who purchased the CE or SE would be forthcoming... otherwise I think I'll be talking to a lawyer about a lawsuit. It's one thing to keep the game in what is essentially a beta state, requiring people to purchase a copy of the game in order to participate in the beta... it's quite another thing to charge people for a copy of the game and then later start giving the game away to whoever wants to download it.

If S-E wants to refund the money I paid for the C-E, they can do as they want. If they do make the client freely available and they don't refund the money I paid, I'll be filing a lawsuit.
#6 Mar 07 2011 at 2:09 AM Rating: Good
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Not a bad idea but some problems might occur

For example, an unlimited amount of accounts can be made, but unlike real beta, there won't be a wipe at the end so expect gold farmers to go nuts and also people creating multiple accounts for the sake of doing something they're not supposed to
#7 Mar 07 2011 at 2:14 AM Rating: Decent
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oberonqa wrote:
If S-E did this, I would hope a full refund for everyone who purchased the CE or SE would be forthcoming... otherwise I think I'll be talking to a lawyer about a lawsuit. It's one thing to keep the game in what is essentially a beta state, requiring people to purchase a copy of the game in order to participate in the beta... it's quite another thing to charge people for a copy of the game and then later start giving the game away to whoever wants to download it.

If S-E wants to refund the money I paid for the C-E, they can do as they want. If they do make the client freely available and they don't refund the money I paid, I'll be filing a lawsuit.


Once FFXIV reaches Square's standards, anyone who wants to continue playing will have to buy the game anyways.

But indeed one of CE's main selling point was to be able to play early, wish i had just bought a standard edition.
#8 Mar 07 2011 at 2:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Love this idea.

@Vic: what about if we create separate servers for those running the open beta client?
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#9 Mar 07 2011 at 3:13 AM Rating: Good
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Honestly I don't think it would attract many new people. The people who wanted to play this game already bought it. It's not like it got glowing reviews to make people who traditionally wouldn't play this game try it.

It would probably just cause more problems than it would help such as people playing 2 chars at once.
#10 Mar 07 2011 at 3:43 AM Rating: Good
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They did imply a big "welcome back" campaign in one of the interviews last week. I'd agree with the idea, but only after the game has seen substantial improvement. Right now, it just wouldn't be worth it.
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#11 Mar 07 2011 at 3:52 AM Rating: Good
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Is the 30k active subs not enough to give them feedback? Why would they let people play a game that needs months and months of development for even them to consider 'finished' so early? What exactly do they gain from it? Why are you people in such a rush?
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#12 Mar 07 2011 at 4:11 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
How many of you who purchased CE or SE will be against of SE making the client available for download and playing until they start charging for the service?


Shops already lost a lot of money on copies of FXIV they had to sell cheap, if Square did this they would never stock the game again lol

Also this game is not in Beta, Beta is when you have the dev team still working on the game and fix/change things accoring to what beta players say. Right now the game has an update staff while the proper dev team have moved off onto other things projects, big big difference in what they can and will be able to do/change.

Doing what you say also implies they would be confident enough that what they offer is good enough to keep people onboard and not scoff at it and uninstall as quick as possible. If you care about population numbers, server merges are the answer but they won't do that for the message it gives.
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#13 Mar 07 2011 at 7:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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While this idea has only great intentions, I feel the law of unintended consequences would wreak havoc on this.
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#14 Mar 07 2011 at 7:54 AM Rating: Good
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As people have pointed out, it would bring in more RMT than anything. I kind of doubt that SE will make the game free to download for this reason alone. If they made separate servers with extremely limited options/content for those types of accounts, it would make allowing them to play free pointless unless they continued to sell the game in stores (or allowed codes to be purchased from the lodestone/SE store) for the entire time they had those servers open and allowed a free transfer once the game had been purchased.
#15 Mar 07 2011 at 8:45 AM Rating: Decent
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preludes wrote:
[quote]Also this game is not in Beta, Beta is when you have the dev team still working on the game and fix/change things accoring to what beta players say. Right now the game has an update staff while the proper dev team have moved off onto other things projects, big big difference in what they can and will be able to do/change.


And yet, far more has been done in the last 2 months than was during Beta. But by all means, please provide a source for your detailed knowledge of the make-up of Square enix's production teams.
#16 Mar 07 2011 at 9:21 AM Rating: Default
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#17 Mar 07 2011 at 10:20 AM Rating: Decent
Fabulous idea! RMT Happens. It just does. It wouldn’t matter if the game was a download or not. We already see them multi boxing on Selbina. What it does do is enable some who may have pc’s who can run the game but can’t install it because of duel layer to come back. Lucky for me my husband has a newer pc that was able to install the game. I was not buying a new drive for my frankenputer just to install one game.

What I would like to see if they do the download is some type of limitation on the “free” accounts. Possibly a level/rank limit and gold/trade limits. This at least forces the RMT to actually purchase the keys to do business and in the process makes them more track able by S.E. I would be shocked if they were not looking into some type of Warden program like the one that Warcraft runs.
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#18 Mar 07 2011 at 11:32 AM Rating: Decent
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I think they'd need to charge, just to keep RMTers out, but I think if they offered it for $10 or $20 as a download they'd get some takers. I might even be one of them.

I do think there are supply issues with the game; while obviously sales haven't been strong, we see places like Gamestop.com not selling the SE on-line. I've seen indications of limited quantities at other retailers as well, and both the SE and CE are back to full or near-full price at most shops; presumably this is due to supply, not demand, as no one is noticing servers being particularly full.

I'm just not willing to play full price for the game, and after reading a few threads about people's issues with buying it from cheaper retailers who gave them used serial numbers, I'm not willing to shop at a place I haven't used before, and all my standbys have FFXIV at full price. If I could buy it through Steam for $20 I would.

The problem, obviously, is that if the game does get good reviews down the road (not bloody likely), it'll be hard to ramp up prices. The solution, naturally, is an expansion pack.

Sell it on Steam for $10 or $20 now (they have FFXI on Steam, right?), sell a full-priced expansion pack later if they ever develop enough content to warrant one. If they don't, well, the game's dead anyway.
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#19 Mar 07 2011 at 11:51 AM Rating: Good
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I like the idea a lot, in principle.

But they already messed up the initial launch, don't you think they should wait for the game to be spit polished before reopening the gates to a large public?

I would not want them to burn an audience that was on the fence of playing or not the game once it's supposed to be finished
#20 Mar 07 2011 at 12:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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oberonqa wrote:

If S-E did this, I would hope a full refund for everyone who purchased the CE or SE would be forthcoming... otherwise I think I'll be talking to a lawyer about a lawsuit. It's one thing to keep the game in what is essentially a beta state, requiring people to purchase a copy of the game in order to participate in the beta... it's quite another thing to charge people for a copy of the game and then later start giving the game away to whoever wants to download it.

If S-E wants to refund the money I paid for the C-E, they can do as they want. If they do make the client freely available and they don't refund the money I paid, I'll be filing a lawsuit.


Good luck with that one. When exactly were you promised that everyone in the future would pay the same as you, and how are you harmed by them getting it for free? Why didn't you sue when the price dropped to $30 on Amazon?

On the OP's suggestion, I think the game is better off laying low for now. It already has enough subscribers to adequately test content, so any new beta would just be a promotional measure. The game still isn't in a state to be promoted.

Now, a downloadable trial once the game is in better shape after the PS3 launch, that makes sense.
#21 Mar 07 2011 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent
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This thread is idiotic. You can't go back in time. You can't push a game from retail back into beta.
Learn to live with consequences.

SE could just start merging servers at most, but probably won't since then all players would be localized in just a few servers upon release. The only thing similar to a second release XIV is going to get is the PS3 version.

Edited, Mar 7th 2011 1:36pm by MajidahSihaam
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#22 Mar 07 2011 at 2:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Yes, you can. And apart from naming it as such, what we have now is nothing less than an extended beta test.
And if more people would join this second beta test, there would be a chance to drive away the gloom & doom
climate that infests not only the boards, but also the game itself.

I myself have a character in the 40s, but nonetheless, I would welcome a complete relaunch - if necessary
including a wipe. If there is just a small chance that after the wipe some fun will follow, that is.
#23 Mar 07 2011 at 7:09 PM Rating: Good
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Thanks for the answers.

One thing I didn't consider was the actual copies at the stores which will become almost useless if SE allow players to download the client for free.

Although the download version could be restricted in the same way the Open beta version was, and as someone has suggested they can restrict the gil storage/generation capabilities of those accounts to avoid the abuse of RMT.

The idea actually came because I'm having hard time to assembly a random group, and due my schedule I play on Japanese prime which means that most English speakers are sleeping.

Ken
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#24 Mar 10 2011 at 7:41 AM Rating: Good
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oberonqa wrote:
kenage wrote:
How many of you who purchased CE or SE will be against of SE making the client available for download and playing until they start charging for the service?
(Of course, that people will need to purchase a license to keep playing after that)

I think it could breath some life to our servers and will give the chance to actual subscribers to share the game with all those friends who many not be willing to purchase a copy, besides groups will be easier to make outside of established linkshells.

What do you think?

Ken


If S-E did this, I would hope a full refund for everyone who purchased the CE or SE would be forthcoming... otherwise I think I'll be talking to a lawyer about a lawsuit. It's one thing to keep the game in what is essentially a beta state, requiring people to purchase a copy of the game in order to participate in the beta... it's quite another thing to charge people for a copy of the game and then later start giving the game away to whoever wants to download it.

If S-E wants to refund the money I paid for the C-E, they can do as they want. If they do make the client freely available and they don't refund the money I paid, I'll be filing a lawsuit.


So, you would be willing to spend hundreds, if not thousands of dollars to recoup 60 bucks.... that you may re-spend on the game anyway? Nobody will be getting the game for free. A beta download is just that. I got my beta download for free, just like everyone else.
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#25 Mar 10 2011 at 8:16 AM Rating: Good
oberonqa wrote:
If they do make the client freely available and they don't refund the money I paid, I'll be filing a lawsuit.


Well I hope you live in Japan, because good luck finding a lawyer willing to sue a multi-national corporation over US$80.

Edited, Mar 10th 2011 9:16am by StateAlchemist2
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#26 Mar 10 2011 at 8:49 AM Rating: Good
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oberonqa wrote:
If they do make the client freely available and they don't refund the money I paid, I'll be filing a lawsuit.


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#27 Mar 10 2011 at 10:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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I've always found it amusing when people are allegedly willing to hire a lawyer over an issue wherein the court costs and filing fees alone would cost more than the amount of money they hope to get back, never mind the cost of the lawyer, never mind the opportunity cost of actually going to court.

Even if you won a default judgment, it's going to cost you a couple hundred dollars to get back your $60.

And honestly, games go down in price. I don't hear people who bought Maddden 10 for $60 two years complaining that I bought it for $20 last year. ****, I paid $40 for FFXI+RoZ, $30 for CoP, $30 for ToAU, $30 for WotG, $10 for ACP, for a total of $140, and I don't have ASA and MKE. Now all of these are available for under 20 bucks. Games go down in price, some sooner than others, some more steeply than others. You paid a price for a product and you got that product. The product does not warrant that prices will not change. If anything, and I'm not saying you actually would have a case here, but you'd have a better luck trying to get your money back under the notion that the product was not as advertised than under the notion that other people get the game for free.

And since CEs come with buddy passes, other people ALREADY ARE getting the game for free, so there goes that.
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#28 Mar 10 2011 at 12:49 PM Rating: Good
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Since the game is basically in a post-release beta status anyway, I'd be totally fine with him opening up the game to people without the box version.

Perhaps develop some sort of small incentive that can be distributed to players who do buy the game and use a retail key? It would both encourage people to come back and see what changes FFXIV is offering and simultaneously encourage users content with the game to purchase the retail version. Maybe that should wait until some more significant and larger changes have rolled out, most likely with actual content to give players something to do other than level. That could mark the beginning of a resurgence campaign to pull customers into the "new" FFXIV.

Sounds win-win to me, so it'll probably not happen.
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#29 Mar 10 2011 at 1:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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If they were to do something like this, give them their own temporary servers, to help test the game and when its time to pay, make them buy a copy of the game. Its simply not fair to the stores still holding copies of the game to start giving it away for free.
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#30 Mar 10 2011 at 3:26 PM Rating: Default
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oberonqa wrote:
If they do make the client freely available and they don't refund the money I paid, I'll be filing a lawsuit.


You should have read the EULA.

Let me make you a short version.

"SE reserve the right to change or cancel the service at any time for any reason, change the price and whatever they want to do. Like it or not."

Anyhow, it would not be the first MMO to go free to play after a not so successful launch... then close.

#31 Mar 10 2011 at 3:36 PM Rating: Excellent
Just something for you guys still complaining that you want a lolrefund to mull around.
9-23 to 10-23: free trial month
10-23 to 11-23: $12.99 (or more)
11-23 to 12-23: $12.99
12-23 to 1-23: $12.99
1-23 to 2-23: $12.99
2-23 to 3-23: $12.99 (we would be in this billing cycle)

At present, that is $64.95 in monthly charges we've not had to pay.
There's almost no way they're going to start charging in April, so bring that total up to $77.94.
#32 Mar 10 2011 at 4:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Just something for you guys still complaining that you want a lolrefund to mull around.
9-23 to 10-23: free trial month
10-23 to 11-23: $12.99 (or more)
11-23 to 12-23: $12.99
12-23 to 1-23: $12.99
1-23 to 2-23: $12.99
2-23 to 3-23: $12.99 (we would be in this billing cycle)

At present, that is $64.95 in monthly charges we've not had to pay.
There's almost no way they're going to start charging in April, so bring that total up to $77.94.


Except no one would have played this game if they charged. I would like to point out that just because they could have charged doesn't mean that they can just decide to release the game for free after they charged other players for it. In fact I don't understand how that even logically connects to their argument of "they charged me but now they are giving it away for free."

Also The fact that you are pretty much belittling someones opinion with "lolrefund" as an admin does not make you look good.
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#33 Mar 10 2011 at 11:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Just something for you guys still complaining that you want a lolrefund to mull around.
9-23 to 10-23: free trial month
10-23 to 11-23: $12.99 (or more)
11-23 to 12-23: $12.99
12-23 to 1-23: $12.99
1-23 to 2-23: $12.99
2-23 to 3-23: $12.99 (we would be in this billing cycle)

At present, that is $64.95 in monthly charges we've not had to pay.
There's almost no way they're going to start charging in April, so bring that total up to $77.94.


Seriously? they released a product that they later apologized for. They came out and said "sorry, its not very good, we will try and make it better". And they have yet to actually do that, so no, I don't think its crazy to want a refund. Any company who actually wanted to regain some goodwill, would have actually refunded people's money if they'd wanted. But computer games are a crappy product from the customer service side, people pretty much go in knowing that, so there's nothing anyone can do. Doesn't mean I still won't hold it against them.
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#34 Mar 11 2011 at 12:08 AM Rating: Good
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oberonqa wrote:
If S-E wants to refund the money I paid for the C-E, they can do as they want. If they do make the client freely available and they don't refund the money I paid, I'll be filing a lawsuit.


If a judge were to play this game in its current state they'd probably order SE to refund everyone anyway. You would be awarded your refund, but only because the game isn't fit to pay for. Actually, the judge would probably refund everyone BUT you because you're so selfish. This game is dying and any last ditch effort to salvage or possibly increase the population should be a welcomed change to you. Why it is not, I don't quite understand. Perhaps you want the game all to yourself?

Open beta is a good indicator of how a game will play at release. You're basically asking for a refund for something everyone was invited to take a free trial for. Laughable. If you weren't satisfied, in fact; if you were so disappointed with the game then AND now, why do you continue to play? Any sensible consumer would have tried to return their purchase within the reasonable 30 day period most products like this afford.


Fun fact: 95% of these people who would ask for a refund will still be playing this game months from now when it is still F2P. The fact that they'd rather be playing alone rather than enjoying their adventures with other people is a bit alarming...

Edited, Mar 11th 2011 1:15am by FilthMcNasty
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#35 Mar 11 2011 at 4:21 AM Rating: Default
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
oberonqa wrote:
If S-E wants to refund the money I paid for the C-E, they can do as they want. If they do make the client freely available and they don't refund the money I paid, I'll be filing a lawsuit.


If a judge were to play this game in its current state they'd probably order SE to refund everyone anyway. You would be awarded your refund, but only because the game isn't fit to pay for. Actually, the judge would probably refund everyone BUT you because you're so selfish. This game is dying and any last ditch effort to salvage or possibly increase the population should be a welcomed change to you. Why it is not, I don't quite understand. Perhaps you want the game all to yourself?

Open beta is a good indicator of how a game will play at release. You're basically asking for a refund for something everyone was invited to take a free trial for. Laughable. If you weren't satisfied, in fact; if you were so disappointed with the game then AND now, why do you continue to play? Any sensible consumer would have tried to return their purchase within the reasonable 30 day period most products like this afford.


Fun fact: 95% of these people who would ask for a refund will still be playing this game months from now when it is still F2P. The fact that they'd rather be playing alone rather than enjoying their adventures with other people is a bit alarming...

Edited, Mar 11th 2011 1:15am by FilthMcNasty


News flash for you, my good sir/madam.... I haven't really "played" since December. I log in every patch for about an hour, just to see what has changed... but I would hardly consider that to be playing.

As for returning the product within a reasonable 30 day period, I strongly believed that S-E would have some good stuff up it's sleeves when the game launched. In fact, I was one of the many people who was expecting a rather sizable patch the day the game went live (aka the magic patch). When that patch didn't materialize, I continued playing, knowing full well thanks to FFXI's patch history that within 3 months, there would be measurable changes to the game (most notably... CONTENT).

But when the magic patch didn't appear in December, I stopped playing the game. I felt giving the game (and S-E) three months after launch to provide something tangible was more than enough time. Unfortunately, this also put me 60 days over the standard 30-day return policy offered by most companies. So basically, my patience is what screwed me out of returning the game.

Furthermore, I would be able to sue Square-Enix USA (since the game I purchased was published and distributed by the US branch of S-E... therefore the legal jurisdiction is not in Japan, but the US) in the lovely court of small claims. Such lawsuits cost relatively little (just the cost of filing the paperwork) and I can even represent myself. Since I would only be suing for the purchase cost of the product (which is $80), this fits perfectly within the small claims system.

As for the commentary about products being reduced in price all the time, this is very true. However, when you purchase a product, you expect it to have some kind of value attached to it, be it sentimental or monetary. Since people who play FFXIV, even in it's F2P state, must purchase a copy of the game, the value is maintained. Even if the purchase price of the game is 10% of the price I paid for it, there is still a monetary value on the product. By simply allowing the game to be downloaded by anyone and everyone, that monetary value would be reduced to $0. And since S-E has yet to charge a monthly fee for accessing the service, this would show a court that the product they have charged customers for is not worth the cost of purchase, which, when combined with making the client freely available for download with no purchase cost, would make a pretty ironclad case for a court-ordered refund.

You can call me selfish all you want... but the simple fact of the matter is, I would have gotten my refund if I returned the game within 30 days. No paying customer should be punished for giving S-E the benefit of the doubt and then getting the shaft by S-E allowing anyone to download the client for free.

And lastly, if I got a refund, I would not be playing the game until I repurchased it (if ever). The game is, in my opinion, just barely in a playable state and I would not play it even if it made a permanent transition to the F2P model. In response to the accusation that I would rather play the game alone than with other adventurers, this is a false assumption and I find it highly presumptuous of you to make such a bold assumption.


Edited, Mar 11th 2011 2:26am by oberonqa
#36 Mar 11 2011 at 10:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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the major problem i have with expanding a second beta with a free download is the game at this point is dying. if you bring in more people with a free download at this point you will bring back alot of the people that have already left and anyone else that is thinking of getting the game in the future. if those that have left come back and see the game is technically no better than it was when they left they will leave again and won't come back again in the future. the same goes for the people that are talking/thinking about getting it in the future. if the game is bad do not try to bring an influx of people to the game until you have a game worth them playing to come to unless you want to kill the possible this game could have.

i don't want to be a pessimist, but the game is really no better now than it was on release. the thing that is missing is quality ingame content that people expect to be in a final fantasy title. if you tell someone there's new content come back to the game do you really think the new side quests will make them happy enough to stay?
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#37 Mar 11 2011 at 2:22 PM Rating: Decent
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4,146 posts
oberonqa wrote:
As for returning the product within a reasonable 30 day period, I strongly believed that S-E would have some good stuff up it's sleeves when the game launched. In fact, I was one of the many people who was expecting a rather sizable patch the day the game went live (aka the magic patch). When that patch didn't materialize, I continued playing, knowing full well thanks to FFXI's patch history that within 3 months, there would be measurable changes to the game (most notably... CONTENT).


Again, games generally remain the same with minor changes between the final beta(open) and release. I can't blame you for not having participated in the alpha testing. Had you been able to see the changes the game underwent over those 5 months, you'd have placed much less faith in SE's ability to pull off a miracle patch.

If anything, the value of this product would increase if the client moved to a free download. It gives people who haven't tried it for whatever reason a chance to play and would likely increase the number of players. More people playing means more grouping, questing and NM hunting... overall more fun(value) for the users. I'm not sure you'd be able to argue against that.

Quote:
You can call me selfish all you want... but the simple fact of the matter is, I would have gotten my refund if I returned the game within 30 days.

Why didn't you return it? Oh yeah, you took it on faith that SE would patch some sort of value into the game for you to feel that it was worth it. I tell you what.. if you agree to film the proceedings, I'll pay your court costs. The sheer entertainment of the lulz carrying you out of the courtroom would be worth it.

I would like to retract my prior statement of you being selfish. I made this assumption figuring you actually still play. Now I come to find out that you haven't logged in for months. That just makes you look like an *******.

Quote:
The game is, in my opinion, just barely in a playable state and I would not play it even if it made a permanent transition to the F2P model. In response to the accusation that I would rather play the game alone than with other adventurers, this is a false assumption and I find it highly presumptuous of you to make such a bold assumption.

Your opinion here has been echoed for months by many of the players. I'm part of a small few who didn't bother to shell out the money for a box and disc. Others bought the game and have since moved on to bigger and better. They were willing to plunk down the money in hopes that the game would improve, but it hasn't.

You are a special breed of troll. You believe that people should be forced to pay as much as you did even though you admit that the 'value' of the game is not where it should be. The majority of us, including SE, feel that F2P is a good place to be at least for now. Now, 6 months after your purchase, you threaten to sue SE if they reduce the price of the box? **** off.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#38 Mar 11 2011 at 2:49 PM Rating: Good
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118 posts
FilthMcNasty wrote:
oberonqa wrote:
As for returning the product within a reasonable 30 day period, I strongly believed that S-E would have some good stuff up it's sleeves when the game launched. In fact, I was one of the many people who was expecting a rather sizable patch the day the game went live (aka the magic patch). When that patch didn't materialize, I continued playing, knowing full well thanks to FFXI's patch history that within 3 months, there would be measurable changes to the game (most notably... CONTENT).


Again, games generally remain the same with minor changes between the final beta(open) and release. I can't blame you for not having participated in the alpha testing. Had you been able to see the changes the game underwent over those 5 months, you'd have placed much less faith in SE's ability to pull off a miracle patch.

If anything, the value of this product would increase if the client moved to a free download. It gives people who haven't tried it for whatever reason a chance to play and would likely increase the number of players. More people playing means more grouping, questing and NM hunting... overall more fun(value) for the users. I'm not sure you'd be able to argue against that.


While I sort of agree with you here, I think instead of upsetting the players who have paid for the game, it would be more feasible and smart to implement some sort of ranking limit on the said free client. For example, download for free, have the ability to rank to 20 with restrictions towards certain events/items/content, and allow them to shell out $20-$30 for a full download provided they like the trial. Or whatever. I don't really care anymore and am probably going to cut down my play time for the next little while as I've almost exhausted the entertainment I can get from this game. Although I do have faith that it will be (eventually) brought into a playable state, I'm thinking with the pace of changes and player input involved, that this won't happen til early-autumn/mid-winter.
#39 Mar 11 2011 at 4:49 PM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:

Again, games generally remain the same with minor changes between the final beta(open) and release. I can't blame you for not having participated in the alpha testing. Had you been able to see the changes the game underwent over those 5 months, you'd have placed much less faith in SE's ability to pull off a miracle patch.


I did participate in the alpha/beta testing. It was inconceivable to myself and a lot of people that S-E would release the game in the same shoddy state as was present in the alpha/beta tests. Actually, not only was it inconceivable, it made NO SENSE to release the game in the same state.

FilthMcNasty wrote:

If anything, the value of this product would increase if the client moved to a free download. It gives people who haven't tried it for whatever reason a chance to play and would likely increase the number of players. More people playing means more grouping, questing and NM hunting... overall more fun(value) for the users. I'm not sure you'd be able to argue against that.


So you don't want the client moved to a free download to help improve testing... you want it moved to a free download to inflate the servers so the people who are still playing can have more fun via grouping/questing/NM hunting. And yet I'm the one who is supposed to be the selfish one....

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I would like to retract my prior statement of you being selfish. I made this assumption figuring you actually still play. Now I come to find out that you haven't logged in for months. That just makes you look like an @#%^.


You fail at reading comprehension. I DO login every patch for about an hour to see what has changed. Did you not see that? Or did you just ignore it, since it doesn't fit into your views? You seem to make a lot of assumptions. Have you, by chance, ever heard of the old saying "assuming makes an *** out of you and me"? I don't know if you're an *** (though, to be honest, your lack of reading comprehension certainly points to the option that you MIGHT be an ***), but I sure as heck know I'm not an ***. So please stop making assumptions.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
Your opinion here has been echoed for months by many of the players. I'm part of a small few who didn't bother to shell out the money for a box and disc. Others bought the game and have since moved on to bigger and better. They were willing to plunk down the money in hopes that the game would improve, but it hasn't.


So you didn't even pay for the game and instead got a buddy pass from someone who did. That actually explains quite a bit. You have NOTHING tangible invested in this game except time, which everyone who plays has invested. The difference between you and I is I actually paid for my copy of the game. Perhaps you would feel differently if you had paid for it instead of getting a buddy pass.

FilthMcNasty wrote:

You are a special breed of troll. You believe that people should be forced to pay as much as you did even though you admit that the 'value' of the game is not where it should be. The majority of us, including SE, feel that F2P is a good place to be at least for now. Now, 6 months after your purchase, you threaten to sue SE if they reduce the price of the box? @#%^ off.


Again, you fail at reading comprehension. I stated that as long as something is charged, even if it is 10% of the price I originally paid, there is still some monetary value attached to the client. What that basically means, is even if S-E charges $8 for the game (10% of $80), there is still monetary value attached to the game. I am OK with S-E charging $8 for the game. Heck.... I'm OK with S-E charging $0.01 for the game.

EDIT: Whoops! Fixed a spelling error. Wouldn't want anyone to put on their spelling **** hats and tear into my post because of a grammatical error!

EDIT2: I missed one... thank you bsphil :)

Edited, Mar 11th 2011 2:51pm by oberonqa

Edited, Mar 11th 2011 6:42pm by oberonqa
#40 Mar 11 2011 at 8:33 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
oberonqa wrote:
EDIT: Whoops! Fixed a spelling error. Wouldn't want anyone to put on their spelling **** hats and tear into my post because of a grammatical error!
It also helps to show that you care about what you're saying. A little effort goes a long way. I appreciate it, at least.

However,
oberonqa wrote:
I don't know if your an ***
you're*.


oberonqa wrote:
So you didn't even pay for the game and instead got a buddy pass from someone who did. That actually explains quite a bit. You have NOTHING tangible invested in this game except time, which everyone who plays has invested. The difference between you and I is I actually paid for my copy of the game. Perhaps you would feel differently if you had paid for it instead of getting a buddy pass.
I cancelled my limited edition preorder and came across someone willing to share a buddy key. I don't really have anything invested in it either other than time. Then again, I was playing since alpha as well, which is why I didn't buy it, particularly because:

oberonqa wrote:
It was inconceivable to myself and a lot of people that S-E would release the game in the same shoddy state as was present in the alpha/beta tests. Actually, not only was it inconceivable, it made NO SENSE to release the game in the same state.




Edited, Mar 11th 2011 8:45pm by bsphil
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#41 Mar 11 2011 at 8:40 PM Rating: Decent
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1,189 posts
bsphil wrote:
oberonqa wrote:
EDIT: Whoops! Fixed a spelling error. Wouldn't want anyone to put on their spelling **** hats and tear into my post because of a grammatical error!
It also helps to show that you care about what you're saying. A little effort goes a long way. I appreciate it, at least.

However,
oberonqa wrote:
I don't know if your an ***
you're*.

Edited, Mar 11th 2011 8:35pm by bsphil


Ah thank you - I missed that one. :)
#43 Mar 11 2011 at 10:55 PM Rating: Decent
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4,146 posts
@Deadkings
That would keep the paid players happy, but I don't think it'd be nearly as effective as just opening up the client as is. The game is still F2P with no hint of subscription fees in the near future. People would play up to rank 20 and probably hang it up. Players who have been live since release are beyond that level cap and would only notice more hustle and bustle in towns. They really wouldn't benefit other than possibly selling off the metric crap ton of low level synths stashed away on their retainers.

oberonqa wrote:
I did participate in the alpha/beta testing. It was inconceivable to myself and a lot of people that S-E would release the game in the same shoddy state as was present in the alpha/beta tests.

Now you have cemented the fact that you have no excuse for purchasing this game and wanting a refund. You saw it struggle through alpha/beta and still made the purchase? That's like buying a used car off a lot after you'd seen it involved in an accident where it was nearly totaled.

oberonga wrote:
So you don't want the client moved to a free download to help improve testing... you want it moved to a free download to inflate the servers so the people who are still playing can have more fun via grouping/questing/NM hunting. And yet I'm the one who is supposed to be the selfish one....

Please re-read what you quoted. I never stated that I wanted anything for this game. As I said before, I don't currently nor have I ever played this game beyond testing. The idea is to add players who are probably already somewhat interested, but reluctant to play due to all of the issues and negativity swirling around FFXIV. I simply pointed out the obvious benefits to the people who currently play. This group does not include myself so no, I'm not being selfish.

oberonga wrote:
But when the magic patch didn't appear in December, I stopped playing the game.


FilthMcNasty wrote:
I made this assumption figuring you actually still play.


Oberonga wrote:
You fail at reading comprehension. I DO login every patch for about an hour to see what has changed.


Yeah, ok.

There is a difference between playing the game and logging in to check updates for an hour. If you're gonna call me on comprehension, you should probably realize that in a genre of game that people generally spend hours a day on, your hour every other month doesn't quite qualify you as a player.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I'm part of a small few who didn't bother to shell out the money for a box...

oberonga wrote:
So you didn't even pay for the game and instead got a buddy pass from someone who did. That actually explains quite a bit.

Go look into a mirror and re-state your earlier post.
oberonga wrote:
You fail at reading comprehension.

Feel better? I do.

I said before that I didn't bother to play beyond alpha/beta. In simpler terms, I have not played a day beyond early release. Capeesh? Had I been given a key, I probably wouldn't be bothered to download the client anyway. The only thing I invested in this game was hope that it would be something that my friends and I could enjoy. That hope started fading in April and was completely gone by August of last year. Had I gone through the testing and still decided to pay for this game I would probably feel(as I'm sure many people here have) like a sucker. You can say that it should have been better than it was, but you absolutely cannot say that you didn't see it coming.

oberonga wrote:
What that basically means, is even if S-E charges $8 for the game (10% of $80), there is still monetary value attached to the game.

I'm arguing that you wouldn't have a case in court that would stand. You paid for the contents of a box. Journal, in-game item and whatever else comes along with that including access to the client. With each post you make, you sound as if you knew exactly what you'd be receiving and you're bitter about it. I honestly can't blame you for being upset, but you used the service regularly through december and you still check in to see what progress has been made. How do you justify wanting a refund after all this time?






Edited, Mar 11th 2011 11:57pm by FilthMcNasty
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#44 Mar 11 2011 at 11:30 PM Rating: Decent
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69 posts
They should really start selling a digital download.... i mean...wtf we aren't in 1992 anymore.

I know people who had to buy a cdkey in a gil site because they couldn't buy the game in their country,lame.
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