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Would you blame SE if they scrapped FFXIV?Follow

#1 Mar 07 2011 at 3:42 AM Rating: Good
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How long can SE realistically keep these servers running for free?
How much will it cost them to finish the PS3 version?

It almost seems like SE has fallen into the sunk cost fallacy.

Honestly I think SE would have a better chance by starting anew on a new game rather than try to basically reshape this entire game. These changes are adding very little and at a very slow pace. Realistically this game might be ready for PS3 release by the end of 2012.

If SE came out tomorrow and stated that they were scrapping FFXIV, I honestly wouldn't even be mad. They've already came forward and admitted their mistakes and tried to fix it. The problem is its hard to make a game into something that it originally wasn't meant to be.

This failure hurt SE but I think it will help us supporters and SE in the long run. SE finally has woken up and realized that they need to do what the community wants, rather than what they want.
#2 Mar 07 2011 at 4:02 AM Rating: Good
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Even if they released a massive expansion and shocked everyone with lots of content WITH a PS3 release FFXIV would still not be able to recover wordlwide, it has a horrible impression on most players of being boring. When I think of games I've enjoyed there is a glimmer of excitment in the prospect of getting back into them, when I think of FFXIV it's totally the opposite. There is nothing at all, first impressions last(and in this games case 6 month impressions ingrained, actually 12 months since beta?).

I think they are best off trashing this game and concentrating on FFXI to make it last a few more years and put out a good successor to FFXI and this time making it more like FFXI (as it is now) because capturing that audience was the reason they made XIV in teh first place, they just made almost every decision wrong with it. If they had basically remade XI right as it is now they would of not only brought over all the XI players but brought back all the people that used to play and maybe took a big chunk of new ones too.

All FFXIV will ever hope to do, no matter how good it gets is to take a small % of the current XI playerbase(and most will be JP even then), it will never do better than that because to the MMO playerbase it's a joke and there are some truely awesome games coming out to fight it out.

I like FFXI and I know ultimately I will have to move on, I want the game I move onto to be another Square gaem but I wont let it be this crappy game.
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#3IlethiusTarraban, Posted: Mar 07 2011 at 4:08 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I don't think SE's shares could absorb the failure, the amount of money they have already spent means it would be cheaper to get the game into a playable state then to start off anew. Also doesnt FFXIII Versus release this year? If thats turns out to be a big seller then that would alleviate the cost of FFXIV.
#4 Mar 07 2011 at 4:27 AM Rating: Good
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IlethiusTarraban wrote:
I don't think SE's shares could absorb the failure, the amount of money they have already spent means it would be cheaper to get the game into a playable state then to start off anew. Also doesnt FFXIII Versus release this year? If thats turns out to be a big seller then that would alleviate the cost of FFXIV.

I dont think the Japanese do failure, they will continue with this game till the player base is zero.

Edited, Mar 7th 2011 5:09am by IlethiusTarraban


Oh the Japanese do failure. See Fantasy Earth Zero and Front Mission Online.

As for cutting it's losses and pulling the plug... honestly that may very well be what ends up happening. The updates this new dev-team are doing are slow to release and very lackluster. I would surmise that if you put the dev-team's changes into a patch, it would amount to basically three weeks of work, tops. This game is going on a year old (from the time the Closed Beta's first started) and we're still looking at basically the same game today that we had a year ago in Closed Beta. Oh sure it's a little less laggy and there's some new nifty (or not-so-nifty) UI elements... there's a search feature for the Market Wards. Ah yes, there's also a small handful of NM's for the endgame... and there's 15 or so "sidequests" that all revolve around the concept of "kill <x> number of <y>" for no xp/sp and only crappy vendor trash rewards for doing them.

At least if S-E pulled the plug now, they could move their manpower onto other projects that have a chance of pulling in a profit. Remember, every single day that FFXIV remains active, that is money spent on server upkeep, customer service/technical support staff, developer salaries, etc. FFXIV is a giant red mark on the quarterly reports and unless the so-called Magic Patch that has been sought after by the community since Closed Beta makes an appearance, there's little chance of FFXIV ever posting a positive.

They can't even convert the game to a F2P model, as there just isn't enough content in the game to warrant the kind of long-term investment that the F2P model needs in order to be successful. Your average social game on Facebook has more staying power than FFXIV at this point.

So to answer the OP's question... I wouldn't be upset and/or blame S-E for scrapping FFXIV. Heck... I'm amazed they haven't done so already to be honest. S-E is a publicly traded company after all. Products that don't earn any money don't get support, as support = cost. And even if S-E makes lots of money from other products, there's still that glaring red mark on the quarterly report.... and even the densest shareholder will eventually start asking the question "how much money would we be making if we didn't have this giant red mark on every quarterly report?" And when that question starts popping up at the Board of Director's meeting, that's when S-E will pull the plug. Because there really is no sound business reason to throw money away on a lost cause. Even if your company makes $5 billion dollars a year.... if your loosing $1.5 billion a year due to supporting a lost cause, that's $1.5 billion dollars of lost revenue.
#5 Mar 07 2011 at 4:32 AM Rating: Good
What was their initial investment in this game, 30,000,000$? I don't know why that number comes to mind, I must of read something along those lines somewhere. So right now they're keeping servers, paying staff to work on the game, so the hole just keeps getting bigger, not to mention game sales probably earned them 2-3 million at the most. If you figure there will be about 30,000 active users come subscription time, that's 390,000/mth, so per year 4.7mil. Now of course that user base is expected to climb once ps3 see's it's release, so that number could climb quite high, and realistically triple.

Would I be surprised if SE scrapped XIV, very, would I be upset? Not really, I've put more hours into XIV then I do with most other games I paid 70$ for. Either way though, SE's lost a lot of money and needs quite a bit of time to make that money up and make this game profitable. I'm actually quite curious to see what happens with this game over the next year or so. Cause fact is, if it wasn't for the SE name attached to this game, it would have flopped a long time ago.
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#6 Mar 07 2011 at 5:03 AM Rating: Default
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You guys realize that FFXI was a failure at first?

I mean, get real, FFXI has been under 500k subscriber for 3 years.

It was not until TOAU release that they announce a 1 million break through.

For those who played jp beta, you think the game was easy?

Hey, who remember where to level from 30-50? It was **** as well.

and what content you think it was available for the japanese to keep playing the game for almost 1 years and half. Pretty much nothing was in.

Let's face it, MMORPG isn't all about the beginning, this isn't HALO or call of duty, the game change, people come and goes.
#7 Mar 07 2011 at 5:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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wrongfeifong wrote:
You guys realize that FFXI was a failure at first?

I mean, get real, FFXI has been under 500k subscriber for 3 years.

It was not until TOAU release that they announce a 1 million break through.

For those who played jp beta, you think the game was easy?

Hey, who remember where to level from 30-50? It was **** as well.

and what content you think it was available for the japanese to keep playing the game for almost 1 years and half. Pretty much nothing was in.

Let's face it, MMORPG isn't all about the beginning, this isn't HALO or call of duty, the game change, people come and goes.


This argument would hold water if not for the fact that when FFXI launched in Japan, it got some pretty extensive patches during the first six months of it's release. Check out this link for a pretty detailed breakdown of the first year of FFXI's life:

http://www.jpbutton.com/?p=157

As for what content was available to the Japanese when the game came out in May 2002 up to the release of Rise of the Zilart one year after the launch of FFXI.... let's see...

-> Jobs at Launch: Warrior, Monk, Thief, White Mage, Red Mage, Black Mage, Paladin, Dark Knight, Beastmaster, Bard, Ranger
-> Craft Skills at Launch: Smithing, Goldsmithing, Woodworking, Bonecrafting, Weaving, Cooking, Fishing
-> Rank 1-5 Nation Missions (including the Shadow Lord fight, which was capped at level 50)
-> AF1 Weapon Quest for all launch jobs.
-> Working Quest System (which rewarded gil and fame and were of-times repeatable) with numerous start NPC's strewn around Vana'diel.
-> Conquest and Garrison Systems
-> Beastmen Seal BCNM fights
-> Ronfoere Region (East/West Ronfoere, King Ramperre's Tomb, Ghelsba Outpost, Fort Ghelsba, Yugutt Grotto)
-> Gustaburg Region (North/South Gustaburg, Palborough Mine, Dangruff Wadi, Zehrumn Mine)
-> Sarutabaruta Region (East/West Sarutabaruta, Inner/Outer Horototo Ruins, Giddeus)
-> Kolshushu Region (Tarongi Canyon, Buburimu Penninsula, Mhuara, Maze of Shakrami, Labyrinth of Onzozo)
-> Araganeu Region (Meriphitaud Mountains, Castle Oztroja, Saraumugue Champaign, Garlaige Citadel)
-> Derfland Region (Rolanberry Fields, Crawlers Nest, Pashaw Marshlands, Beadeaux)
-> Norvallen Region (Batilla Downs, Eldeime Necropolis, Jugner Forest, Davoi)
-> Zulkeim Region (La Theine Plataeu, Valkrum Dunes, Konchetat Highlands, Gusgen Mine, Ordelle's Caves, Selibina)
-> Fauregandi Region (Beaucidine Glacier, Ranguemont Pass, Fei'Yin)
-> Valdeaunia Region (Xarcabard, Castle Zvahl Baileys, Castle Zvahl Keep)
-> Qufim Region (Qufim Island, Lower/Middle/Upper Delkfutt Tower)
-> San d'Oria (North/South/Chateau d'Oraganneu/Port San d'Oria)
-> Bastok (Port, Markets, Metalworks, Mines)
-> Windurst (Walls, Waters, Woods, Port, Heavens Tower)
-> Jeuno (Ru'Lude Gardens, Upper/Lower/Port Jeuno)

I'd say there was quite a lot of stuff for the Japanese to do for the year between when vanilla FFXI came out and when Rise of the Zilart came out.

And now compare all this with what we've gotten with FFXIV during the first six months. Doesn't hold a candle, does it?
#8 Mar 07 2011 at 6:20 AM Rating: Decent
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We are only 6 months in.

Compare the first 3 months to the last 3 months?

The improvement with the new team has been drastic and positive. Almost everything they have included in these patches has been well recieved. Yes they are missing a load of content, but with each patch we are getting positive additions and mostly based on good player feedback.

The current team are working on several fonts at once. Today we have official forums going in, another huge step towards providing valuable dev interaction with the gamin community.

Given the performance since the new team took over I would say FFXIV is leaps and bounds ahead of where it was at launch and at the moment SE would be foolish to not give them at least up until a year from launch to see if they can make it a subscribable game.
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FFXIV : Khaap Keha : THM(Bodhum) In progress and enjoying it so far.
FFXI : Khaap : 75BLM, 75NIN Retired (sadly and it was purely down to graphics)



#9 Mar 07 2011 at 6:22 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
And now compare all this with what we've gotten with FFXIV during the first six months. Doesn't hold a candle, does it?


Overall at this point, they're pretty much even. I can see XIV come far ahead in the next 6 months though, in both content and gameplay. XI didn't have to deal with a team restructure, which as much as some people want to deny did affect the development in the short-term quite a bit.

Not that it would be enough. It will definitely get ahead of XI but more than that needs to be done. Right now things are looking pretty good though, taking into account what the game has been through and what Yoshida said about the battle system upgrades in the coming Spring.

Quote:
We are only 6 months in.


Frankly, a lot more should have been done in 6 months. There is a good reason for it, though. Yoshida is still mainly talk and little action, but it is changing little by little as the development on the larger changes approaches the finish line.

If it wasn't for the team restructuring, with so few updates in 6 months the game would be as good as dead.

Edited, Mar 7th 2011 3:25pm by Hyanmen
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#10 Mar 07 2011 at 7:00 AM Rating: Default
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oberonqa wrote:
wrongfeifong wrote:
You guys realize that FFXI was a failure at first?

I mean, get real, FFXI has been under 500k subscriber for 3 years.

It was not until TOAU release that they announce a 1 million break through.

For those who played jp beta, you think the game was easy?

Hey, who remember where to level from 30-50? It was **** as well.

and what content you think it was available for the japanese to keep playing the game for almost 1 years and half. Pretty much nothing was in.

Let's face it, MMORPG isn't all about the beginning, this isn't HALO or call of duty, the game change, people come and goes.


This argument would hold water if not for the fact that when FFXI launched in Japan, it got some pretty extensive patches during the first six months of it's release. Check out this link for a pretty detailed breakdown of the first year of FFXI's life:

http://www.jpbutton.com/?p=157

As for what content was available to the Japanese when the game came out in May 2002 up to the release of Rise of the Zilart one year after the launch of FFXI.... let's see...

-> Jobs at Launch: Warrior, Monk, Thief, White Mage, Red Mage, Black Mage, Paladin, Dark Knight, Beastmaster, Bard, Ranger
-> Craft Skills at Launch: Smithing, Goldsmithing, Woodworking, Bonecrafting, Weaving, Cooking, Fishing
-> Rank 1-5 Nation Missions (including the Shadow Lord fight, which was capped at level 50)
-> AF1 Weapon Quest for all launch jobs.
-> Working Quest System (which rewarded gil and fame and were of-times repeatable) with numerous start NPC's strewn around Vana'diel.
-> Conquest and Garrison Systems
-> Beastmen Seal BCNM fights
-> Ronfoere Region (East/West Ronfoere, King Ramperre's Tomb, Ghelsba Outpost, Fort Ghelsba, Yugutt Grotto)
-> Gustaburg Region (North/South Gustaburg, Palborough Mine, Dangruff Wadi, Zehrumn Mine)
-> Sarutabaruta Region (East/West Sarutabaruta, Inner/Outer Horototo Ruins, Giddeus)
-> Kolshushu Region (Tarongi Canyon, Buburimu Penninsula, Mhuara, Maze of Shakrami, Labyrinth of Onzozo)
-> Araganeu Region (Meriphitaud Mountains, Castle Oztroja, Saraumugue Champaign, Garlaige Citadel)
-> Derfland Region (Rolanberry Fields, Crawlers Nest, Pashaw Marshlands, Beadeaux)
-> Norvallen Region (Batilla Downs, Eldeime Necropolis, Jugner Forest, Davoi)
-> Zulkeim Region (La Theine Plataeu, Valkrum Dunes, Konchetat Highlands, Gusgen Mine, Ordelle's Caves, Selibina)
-> Fauregandi Region (Beaucidine Glacier, Ranguemont Pass, Fei'Yin)
-> Valdeaunia Region (Xarcabard, Castle Zvahl Baileys, Castle Zvahl Keep)
-> Qufim Region (Qufim Island, Lower/Middle/Upper Delkfutt Tower)
-> San d'Oria (North/South/Chateau d'Oraganneu/Port San d'Oria)
-> Bastok (Port, Markets, Metalworks, Mines)
-> Windurst (Walls, Waters, Woods, Port, Heavens Tower)
-> Jeuno (Ru'Lude Gardens, Upper/Lower/Port Jeuno)

I'd say there was quite a lot of stuff for the Japanese to do for the year between when vanilla FFXI came out and when Rise of the Zilart came out.

And now compare all this with what we've gotten with FFXIV during the first six months. Doesn't hold a candle, does it?


Ok let's compare with you here.

- War Job at beginning: DoW+M: 7 jobs
- Crafting job DoH: 8 jobs DoL: 3 jobs
- Story mission 3 nations 1 mission per 5 level each until 30, i think 35,40,45,50 are one route (not sure what is the total afterward But more then rank 1-5 (which is 3 quests rank 1,2,3 and 4, and 5 is large one there)
- Working quests- Guild mark quest, 3 for EACH jobs Total of 19 x 3 quests available.
- Leve job system for EACH job.
- Behest system for EACH nodes.
- Faction system.
- Retainer system - hold your stuff i guess... which is same as mog house.
***Areas: actually i don't explore much but from wiki up there there is 5 areas, 6 dungeons.
- Region: "I am too lazy to type the names"
- Region: "I am too lazy to type the names"
- Region: "I am too lazy to type the names"
- Region: "I am too lazy to type the names"
- Region: "I am too lazy to type the names"
- Cities: "I am too lazy to type the names"
- Cities: "I am too lazy to type the names"
- Cities: "I am too lazy to type the names"
Note*** Remember 1 region = @least 4-5 maps of a FFXI REGION or bigger and additing 2 dungeons each region so making it 6-7 FFXI MAPS.

Others:
What else? i forgot.
-I am pretty sure there are MORE monster types then FFXI At beginning to speak
-More Emotes
-Bigger maps
-more weather effects?
-more sound/music ? I mean FFXI OST got 1 CD vs FFXI OST got 2 CD.
-Got a singer :P
-More RACES-look. You got a white taru and a black taru...

Please don't say the game is empty, FFXIV itself have plenty of contents, Garrison (actually garrison was added later on) and conquest is just "numbers on a map", those aren't really contents, you don't have to do anything to get conquest beside, killing whatever you grind or giving crystal to the guard or items.

And WTF, stop rating me down for being positive already. Are all the reader negative lover here?

OH let me also List what is the CHANGED added in after release, the list above is PACKED with the game
Changes include

- 3d TEXT
- Bigger size monster ~
- SIDE QUEST
- removed collession
- added a Market wards + search functions
- Reduced anima use
- Link-leve (was this new or something i am not sure)
- Changed the UI speed and looks (FFXI never changed it @ all)
- Added new recipe/fixed some
- NMs
- job adjustment
- Addition retainer (even mog house wasn't expanded)
- Added more icon for "stupid players who doesn't learn which monster is aggressive by now"
- Added more leves (let's consider more quests in this sense)

...what else?

Edited, Mar 7th 2011 8:06am by wrongfeifong
#11 Mar 07 2011 at 7:24 AM Rating: Decent
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I cant answer your questions except for the one in the thread title; I wouldnt blame them if they did because its understandable that you want to scrap failure but the PS3 relaunch of the game has much potential to turn it all around. So they will at least finish and launch the PS3 version. IF the reception is again as bad as the PC launch (which is IMO improbable since that was just about rock bottom) then i'd expect SE to drop FF14 like a bad habit.
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#12 Mar 07 2011 at 8:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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Who else would we blame?! Ourselves for playing?

Edited, Mar 7th 2011 9:15am by SabastianSeraph
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#13 Mar 07 2011 at 8:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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SabastianSeraph wrote:
Who else would we blame?! Ourselves for playing?

Edited, Mar 7th 2011 9:15am by SabastianSeraph


I think he meant whether you would understand SE's decision to scrap FF14 if they would indeed make that decision in the near future.
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#14 Mar 07 2011 at 8:30 AM Rating: Decent
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I won't blame them at all. See what I did there?
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#15 Mar 07 2011 at 8:37 AM Rating: Good
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No, I'll blame Tanaka & crew.
#16 Mar 07 2011 at 8:48 AM Rating: Default
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Realistically, they can keep the servers running forever. You're forgetting that SE isn't some one-hit wonder like many of the smaller game companies, and in addition to making their own wildly popular games, publishes for smaller studios. It takes less than a million a year to run fifty separate worlds with full pay for the staff, so they can easily afford to take a little profit hit to keep up their PR and eventually rake in more cash once they finish fixing the game up.
#17 Mar 07 2011 at 8:52 AM Rating: Decent
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oberonqa wrote:

This argument would hold water if not for the fact that when FFXI launched in Japan, it got some pretty extensive patches during the first six months of it's release. Check out this link for a pretty detailed breakdown of the first year of FFXI's life:

http://www.jpbutton.com/?p=157

As for what content was available to the Japanese when the game came out in May 2002 up to the release of Rise of the Zilart one year after the launch of FFXI....

I'd say there was quite a lot of stuff for the Japanese to do for the year between when vanilla FFXI came out and when Rise of the Zilart came out.

And now compare all this with what we've gotten with FFXIV during the first six months. Doesn't hold a candle, does it?


It doesn't compare, but XI wasn't rushed out compared to XIV but they did share similar issues and XIV even did better on a technical level compared to XI's initial launch.
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#18 Mar 07 2011 at 9:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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wrongfeifong wrote:
oberonqa wrote:
wrongfeifong wrote:
You guys realize that FFXI was a failure at first?

I mean, get real, FFXI has been under 500k subscriber for 3 years.

It was not until TOAU release that they announce a 1 million break through.

For those who played jp beta, you think the game was easy?

Hey, who remember where to level from 30-50? It was **** as well.

and what content you think it was available for the japanese to keep playing the game for almost 1 years and half. Pretty much nothing was in.

Let's face it, MMORPG isn't all about the beginning, this isn't HALO or call of duty, the game change, people come and goes.


This argument would hold water if not for the fact that when FFXI launched in Japan, it got some pretty extensive patches during the first six months of it's release. Check out this link for a pretty detailed breakdown of the first year of FFXI's life:

http://www.jpbutton.com/?p=157

As for what content was available to the Japanese when the game came out in May 2002 up to the release of Rise of the Zilart one year after the launch of FFXI.... let's see...

-> Jobs at Launch: Warrior, Monk, Thief, White Mage, Red Mage, Black Mage, Paladin, Dark Knight, Beastmaster, Bard, Ranger
-> Craft Skills at Launch: Smithing, Goldsmithing, Woodworking, Bonecrafting, Weaving, Cooking, Fishing
-> Rank 1-5 Nation Missions (including the Shadow Lord fight, which was capped at level 50)
-> AF1 Weapon Quest for all launch jobs.
-> Working Quest System (which rewarded gil and fame and were of-times repeatable) with numerous start NPC's strewn around Vana'diel.
-> Conquest and Garrison Systems
-> Beastmen Seal BCNM fights
-> Ronfoere Region (East/West Ronfoere, King Ramperre's Tomb, Ghelsba Outpost, Fort Ghelsba, Yugutt Grotto)
-> Gustaburg Region (North/South Gustaburg, Palborough Mine, Dangruff Wadi, Zehrumn Mine)
-> Sarutabaruta Region (East/West Sarutabaruta, Inner/Outer Horototo Ruins, Giddeus)
-> Kolshushu Region (Tarongi Canyon, Buburimu Penninsula, Mhuara, Maze of Shakrami, Labyrinth of Onzozo)
-> Araganeu Region (Meriphitaud Mountains, Castle Oztroja, Saraumugue Champaign, Garlaige Citadel)
-> Derfland Region (Rolanberry Fields, Crawlers Nest, Pashaw Marshlands, Beadeaux)
-> Norvallen Region (Batilla Downs, Eldeime Necropolis, Jugner Forest, Davoi)
-> Zulkeim Region (La Theine Plataeu, Valkrum Dunes, Konchetat Highlands, Gusgen Mine, Ordelle's Caves, Selibina)
-> Fauregandi Region (Beaucidine Glacier, Ranguemont Pass, Fei'Yin)
-> Valdeaunia Region (Xarcabard, Castle Zvahl Baileys, Castle Zvahl Keep)
-> Qufim Region (Qufim Island, Lower/Middle/Upper Delkfutt Tower)
-> San d'Oria (North/South/Chateau d'Oraganneu/Port San d'Oria)
-> Bastok (Port, Markets, Metalworks, Mines)
-> Windurst (Walls, Waters, Woods, Port, Heavens Tower)
-> Jeuno (Ru'Lude Gardens, Upper/Lower/Port Jeuno)

I'd say there was quite a lot of stuff for the Japanese to do for the year between when vanilla FFXI came out and when Rise of the Zilart came out.

And now compare all this with what we've gotten with FFXIV during the first six months. Doesn't hold a candle, does it?


Ok let's compare with you here.

- War Job at beginning: DoW+M: 7 jobs
- Crafting job DoH: 8 jobs DoL: 3 jobs
- Story mission 3 nations 1 mission per 5 level each until 30, i think 35,40,45,50 are one route (not sure what is the total afterward But more then rank 1-5 (which is 3 quests rank 1,2,3 and 4, and 5 is large one there)
- Working quests- Guild mark quest, 3 for EACH jobs Total of 19 x 3 quests available.
- Leve job system for EACH job.
- Behest system for EACH nodes.
- Faction system.
- Retainer system - hold your stuff i guess... which is same as mog house.
***Areas: actually i don't explore much but from wiki up there there is 5 areas, 6 dungeons.
- Region: "I am too lazy to type the names"
- Region: "I am too lazy to type the names"
- Region: "I am too lazy to type the names"
- Region: "I am too lazy to type the names"
- Region: "I am too lazy to type the names"
- Cities: "I am too lazy to type the names"
- Cities: "I am too lazy to type the names"
- Cities: "I am too lazy to type the names"
Note*** Remember 1 region = @least 4-5 maps of a FFXI REGION or bigger and additing 2 dungeons each region so making it 6-7 FFXI MAPS.

Others:
What else? i forgot.
-I am pretty sure there are MORE monster types then FFXI At beginning to speak
-More Emotes
-Bigger maps
-more weather effects?
-more sound/music ? I mean FFXI OST got 1 CD vs FFXI OST got 2 CD.
-Got a singer :P
-More RACES-look. You got a white taru and a black taru...

Please don't say the game is empty, FFXIV itself have plenty of contents, Garrison (actually garrison was added later on) and conquest is just "numbers on a map", those aren't really contents, you don't have to do anything to get conquest beside, killing whatever you grind or giving crystal to the guard or items.

And WTF, stop rating me down for being positive already. Are all the reader negative lover here?

OH let me also List what is the CHANGED added in after release, the list above is PACKED with the game
Changes include

- 3d TEXT
- Bigger size monster ~
- SIDE QUEST
- removed collession
- added a Market wards + search functions
- Reduced anima use
- Link-leve (was this new or something i am not sure)
- Changed the UI speed and looks (FFXI never changed it @ all)
- Added new recipe/fixed some
- NMs
- job adjustment
- Addition retainer (even mog house wasn't expanded)
- Added more icon for "stupid players who doesn't learn which monster is aggressive by now"
- Added more leves (let's consider more quests in this sense)

...what else?

Edited, Mar 7th 2011 8:06am by wrongfeifong


Sorry about the size of the quotes but I want to point something out here.

Look at the quality of each point made here. The quality of each point wrongfeifong made versus each point oberonqa made. Where FFXI got some a variety of zones FFXIV got copy/paste terrain for miles. Bigger isn't better here. Jobs in FFXI were also clearly defined with different play styles, where jobs in FFXIV all feel relatively the same and play very similar to each other. I mean we can compare points all day and FFXI will always come out ahead because FFXIV has no flavor to it. It has nothing except the armory system to define itself and it's implemented poorly at that.

I've always felt like SE wanted to milk the players from FFXI too much and this is what we got. SE took a lot of shortcuts in the development of FFXIV (outsourcing world development being one that caused a lot of controversy) and ot come back to bite them. Actually, FFXIV is just a mountain of failures.


Now, I wouldn't mind them scrapping FFXIV at all, just give me my FFVI remake!
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#19 Mar 07 2011 at 9:29 AM Rating: Good
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I think their smarter bet would be/would have been to shut off most of the servers and take FFXIV back to "closed beta". Fix it up, make it look good, then re-release it.

It's kinda like losing or gaining weight. You don't really notice a friend or a pet who has lost or gained weight because you see them every day, you don't really notice minor improvements. And yet when people see your friend/pet who haven't seen them in months, their reaction could be "Wow', you've lost/put on some weight!" because they notice the difference immediately.

Don't get me wrong, if they're going to keep the servers alive, then short updates quickly like they have been doing is best. And I know there are a lot of people who would hate to see them switch the servers off.

But if they did take the servers off, it saves them money while they're fixing if for power/bandwidth, and they have to spend less time on addressing testing and fixes after every individual patch. Then, when they bring the servers back online, there will have been huge changes. I'm not saying they should have jumped the gun this early, but if they had shut down on Oct 1st and relaunched on March 1st, think of all the changes that have been made in that time.

I've said before that while I'm not playing now, I'm watching the updates and I plan to come back when it looks like there's something to do that will make me WANT to play. I'm playing FFXI right now with a collective group of people who are of similar mindsets as me; "We want to play FFXIV when it's ready. We don't think it's ready. Rather than drive ourselves crazy with an incomplete game, we're going to have fun playing a game with lots of content together, and we're all going to migrate back to FFXIV whenever they fix it, whether that is 3 months, 6 months, a year, whatever."

The question is: How many other people who have already quit are willing to give SE another chance when they come out and say "Hey, it's fixed! Come back and give it a try!" Better question: Is SE just going to assume it's fixed or is SE going to put out round two of advertising any advertising at all when it's "fixed"? My theory/hope/speculation is that they take the PS3 release as an opportunity to throw in an advertising campaign on television announcing the improved FFXIV and welcoming ex PC players to come back with a (key words) free trial.

I won't say I'd be in favor of totally scrapping XIV entirely, although I do believe they're trying to throw money into a well to stop the hemorrhaging and it will definitely take a lot more money thrown into this hole before they even think about making a profit, never mind breaking even. At the rate they're going, it seems unlikely the overall budget for FFXIV will be paid for by the income for FFXIV until at least 2012. The question is: how much money can they throw at it? They have invested so much money that they can't afford to fail, but they're still throwing away even more money at a project in the hopes of saving it.

Fans of FFXIV just need to hope that the money doesn't run out before the investors' patience does.
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#20 Mar 07 2011 at 9:29 AM Rating: Excellent
Srapping the game now woing definitely surprise me, given all the work being done to prep this game for a ps3 launch. If this game launches for the ps3 with all its upcoming improvements and still fails to win back customers, then i'd be surprised if they didn't scrap it.
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#21 Mar 07 2011 at 9:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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FFXI was 2002-2003??? This is 2011. What content a game that old released then has no merit to what should be released now only that there should be more.. Looking at it from a pure evolution state, FFXIV should have more content because they already knew what FFXI brought to the plate and should of foreseen more of what they needed out of FFXIV..

A little harsh but definitely accurate info. X_X
#22 Mar 07 2011 at 9:31 AM Rating: Good
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They won't scrap FFXIV.
And to be honest, I don't see a reason for it either.

What would a "new" game change?

- You'd still run around and kill things, craft, gather or do quests like it's done in every MMO.
- They could make new regions with more landmarks. Ok, they won't change the current regions but they can make additional regions more unique and less "copy & paste".
- They could make new magic/melee/ranged/crafting/gathering classes. This is nothing they can't do with FFXIV.
- They could add alot of quests and dungeons. This can also be done with FFXIV.
- They could make a better battle system. This can also be changed but it will always be "player hits mob, mob hits player, the one with 0HP loses".

What else is there? Better graphics? Other music?

They wouldn't have to bother with complaints from players because of an unfinished game at release. Maybe.
They wouldn't have to regain the trust of players because "this isn't FFXIV it's FFXV and much better"? Players would be very cautious about a new game released by "the company that developed FFXIV, released it too early, and then scraped it".
FFXIV hit SE hard, that can't be denied. But a new MMO won't change this. It happened and sweeping it under the carpet won't change anything.

Whatever they do, people will either agree or disagree with it.

I think their plan of improving the game till players and developers are kinda satisfied (players will never be satisfied) with it and then releasing it for PS3 is the best they can do in their current situation.

Quote:
SE finally has woken up and realized that they need to do what the community wants, rather than what they want.

This is exactly why we get so many clones and sequels and so few really innovative games. This is not limited to SE, FF or the gaming industry. Players want something new, something different. But when they get it, they often won't even give it a chance.
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#23 Mar 07 2011 at 9:33 AM Rating: Default
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
What was their initial investment in this game, 30,000,000$?


I could very well be wrong, but I am sure I remember reading that the development of FFXIV was wholly paid for by profits of FFXI. Although if you pressed me on it I'd have to admit I couldn't tell you where it was I read that information.
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#24 Mar 07 2011 at 9:36 AM Rating: Default
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For every ********* negative thread that I see about the game, I will post an all important link about an upcoming fan site...

http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=152&mid=1298761094153292980#msg129895922411179155

People, seriously... knock it off.
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#25Vedis, Posted: Mar 07 2011 at 9:45 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) im with you on this, though i dont agree with the post you linked in specific
#26 Mar 07 2011 at 10:01 AM Rating: Good
They have easily a year before they must start charging subscriptions. That year will bring a full-sized expansion and I predict the posters here will surprise themselves by logging in to check it out.

#27 Mar 07 2011 at 10:40 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
It's kinda like losing or gaining weight. You don't really notice a friend or a pet who has lost or gained weight because you see them every day, you don't really notice minor improvements. And yet when people see your friend/pet who haven't seen them in months, their reaction could be "Wow', you've lost/put on some weight!" because they notice the difference immediately.


I have to agree with this. Due to issues with crashing I left the game shortly after release. I was one ****** player. Thanks to updates and changes that have made the game much more stable I am finally able to play. While there is still much left to fix the game is definitely night and day different. They have fixed the NVIDIA crash for some of us. Overall game textures are now displaying correctly. They have cut down on some of the copy pasta. Mobs now path better in the game environment. They added chat background gamma slider for my poor old blind self. Game interface is much more responsive. It doesn’t take forever to open a game menu anymore. There are also tons of other changes that I am just too lazy to list. I do want to point out though that none of the stability and video card support changes appear anywhere on the patch notes. Just because you don’t see a big “Hey we fixed this” does not mean that nothing was done.
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#28 Mar 07 2011 at 11:05 AM Rating: Good
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oberonqa wrote:
As for what content was available to the Japanese when the game came out in May 2002 up to the release of Rise of the Zilart one year after the launch of FFXI.... let's see...


Everyone throws around this idea that it was "one year" and all the problems were fixed. Not to nitpick - but maybe inject some reality and expectation management into this discussion, but that 1 year was actually 17 months. JP PS2 Release was May 2002 and NA PC Release was October 2003.

Currently FFXIV is (September 22 to March 7) - almost exactly 5 1/2 months old. We have a full year ahead of us if you want to compare to Japanese/NA launch schedule.
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#29 Mar 07 2011 at 11:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Would i blame them? **** yes its their fault. thats to answer OP but on a side note i would feel more shock then blame because theres absolutely ZERO chance of this game being scrapped.

Edited, Mar 7th 2011 12:09pm by dnored
#30 Mar 07 2011 at 11:09 AM Rating: Decent
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237 posts
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
What was their initial investment in this game, 30,000,000$? I don't know why that number comes to mind, I must of read something along those lines somewhere. So right now they're keeping servers, paying staff to work on the game, so the hole just keeps getting bigger, not to mention game sales probably earned them 2-3 million at the most. If you figure there will be about 30,000 active users come subscription time, that's 390,000/mth, so per year 4.7mil. Now of course that user base is expected to climb once ps3 see's it's release, so that number could climb quite high, and realistically triple.

Would I be surprised if SE scrapped XIV, very, would I be upset? Not really, I've put more hours into XIV then I do with most other games I paid 70$ for. Either way though, SE's lost a lot of money and needs quite a bit of time to make that money up and make this game profitable. I'm actually quite curious to see what happens with this game over the next year or so. Cause fact is, if it wasn't for the SE name attached to this game, it would have flopped a long time ago.


SE sold 650k boxes @ launch i believe. so at least $32,000,000 in box sales (@ $50.00 a box) , not sure what cut the retailer gets vs SE's share. so maybe SE took home less. So if SE spent 30mil on dev. for FFXIV then they have almost made up the cost already.



@ everyone else:

having a successful MMO doesn't mean having 1million plus subs. Look at CCP and Eve online, it hasn't reached the 1 million sub mark in its life time, but it's a successful MMO. Or Age of Conan, Everyone here can say that game was a flop, hyped, released, buried. It's still kicking it's got people playing it's a successful MMO for funcom, it's making them money. Warhammer online. It's barely alive down to 2 servers I believe but what two years later it's still going. This is what you can expect from SE; they will perceiver.

SE is a HUGE company, it's not these little studios that bank everything they have on one game and if that game fails then they are done for (APB studio). SE can and has already absorbed the costs of FFXIV. I'm sure they have run a cost analysis for keeping FFXIV active while restructuring the game and have come up with a plan. IF they plan fails then they will probably have another analysis of cost vs earnings of keeping it alive even further.

Again, while fans of post WoW MMO may have written FFXIV off already there is a player base that SE can and will make a profit off of by staying the course and righting FFXIV. It might be hard to realize and come to terms with that a game doesn't have to be main stream and have 100's of thousands and millions of players to be a success. FFXIV could have 3 servers and cater to 30k people and if they find a sustainable balance is that not a success? It's not a grand slam by any means, and no where near SE or players in general want to see this game, but finding that even keel is key to having further development cycles of the game.

Can FFXIV make SE money in the future SE thinks it will. Thats what matters, not the acceptance of the main stream, not millions of gamers approval.

P.S.
Like many others I'm waiting for FFXIV to bloom before I continue to play, I'll follow every update, I'll check these forums daily. And I won't lose hope for FFXIV till SE does.
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#31 Mar 07 2011 at 11:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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Lady Alynis wrote:
Just because you don’t see a big “Hey we fixed this” does not mean that nothing was done.


This just confuses me to no end. Why wouldn't they tell a playerbase who's saying the game is broken when they fix something? Why not announce it when they actually improve or repair something in the game?

It's things like this that makes me wonder if SE is still in the "Devs vs Players" mentality they were in the early days of FFXI.
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#32 Mar 07 2011 at 11:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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SevenLittleChipmunks wrote:


@ everyone else:

having a successful MMO doesn't mean having 1million plus subs. Look at CCP and Eve online, it hasn't reached the 1 million sub mark in its life time, but it's a successful MMO. Or Age of Conan, Everyone here can say that game was a flop, hyped, released, buried. It's still kicking it's got people playing it's a successful MMO for funcom, it's making them money. Warhammer online. It's barely alive down to 2 servers I believe but what two years later it's still going. This is what you can expect from SE; they will perceiver.

...

Can FFXIV make SE money in the future SE thinks it will. Thats what matters, not the acceptance of the main stream, not millions of gamers approval.

P.S.
Like many others I'm waiting for FFXIV to bloom before I continue to play, I'll follow every update, I'll check these forums daily. And I won't lose hope for FFXIV till SE does.


So what metric do you use to define when something is successful? When there's still 1 server running the game? When there's still at least 1 player on it? When they just haven't canned it yet? That seems a little absurd to me as a definition of success. When you have to lower the bar that low to declare FFXIV a success then I just don't know what to tell you man. I guess some people will twist it to fit whatever they want to believe.

I'd also like to know when you feel FFXIV will "bloom". What milestones would need to have been reached before we can say that? I just don't see a point where we can all say "Oh look at that, FFXIV is good now!" happening anytime soon. In my opinion they've already shot themselves in the foot with the way the game is designed. Dare I say, it's not designed to be fun.
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#33 Mar 07 2011 at 11:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Currently FFXIV is (September 22 to March 7) - almost exactly 5 1/2 months old. We have a full year ahead of us if you want to compare to Japanese/NA launch schedule.

True. Also, irrelevant, unless we actually think it's okay for a company to learn nothing after having been through all of this before.

The question isn't how to compare FFXIV's launch to the launch of FFXI eight years ago. It's a given that SE will learn the lesson faster the second time. The question is, why do they need to learn the same lesson twice?
#34 Mar 07 2011 at 11:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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SevenLittleChipmunks wrote:
SE sold 650k boxes @ launch i believe. so at least $32,000,000 in box sales (@ $50.00 a box) , not sure what cut the retailer gets vs SE's share. so maybe SE took home less. So if SE spent 30mil on dev. for FFXIV then they have almost made up the cost already.


A couple of things as it pertains to this, since I was just talking about this in the player base thread and how many people may be still playing.

They shipped 630,000 copies of the game (link here). Most people would agree that there is a difference between shipped and sold. As such, they're likely not as near to breaking even on the amount of money they've made, and the total expenses for development that were racked up making Final Fantasy XIV, as one might believe.

(Edit: Just to add, I'm sure if more copies had been shipped since the November 2010 publishing date of this article, it would have been mentioned by this point by Square-Enix or some sort of business company that keeps tabs on those sorts of thing.)

Then you need to factor in operating costs. Yes, true, operating costs are independent of development cost in some ways, since the $30,000,000 estimate only pertains to the work put in to the game prior to release. But it's still important because, overall, if the sale total of FFXIV didn't recoup the development costs, then you toss on that still existing red ink a whole bucket of further red ink, it goes from, say, a molehill that needs to be climbed, to a mountain.

Of course this is all just random babble, and it only holds up if the $30,000,000 development price is accurate. If it isn't, then who knows?

Edited, Mar 7th 2011 12:30pm by Satisiun
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#35 Mar 07 2011 at 11:28 AM Rating: Good
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"Rapture" has been in development since at least early 2005. I'm not a developer but 6 years seems like a long time. Certainly long enough to have more of a game in front of us than we currently have.

Even if it were scrapped, they would keep a lot of the character models/animations and parts of the engine in tact. Thus, all of their previous development costs would not be wasted.



Edited, Mar 7th 2011 11:28am by Mithsavvy
#36 Mar 07 2011 at 11:38 AM Rating: Excellent
SevenLittleChipmunks wrote:
So if SE spent [XXmil] on dev. for FFXIV then they have almost made up the cost already.


Doesn't matter the number, this is likely true to some extent. You can bet that investors in SE did not expect to have their money wrapped up in this project for 5~6 years to get a %0 return, though. That is why, as long as there is any chance of success at all, SE will continue to work on FFXIV. The infrastructure is now bought and paid for. They are in the last 1/4 of a race and there is no way they will stop now. It's a financial impossibility.

As a gamer you may see the logic in closing down and re-releasing, but the decision makers are investors who do not share this perspective.
#37 Mar 07 2011 at 11:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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if they made ffxi with ffxiv graphics I might have to consider living on the internet :O
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#38 Mar 07 2011 at 11:46 AM Rating: Good
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reptiletim wrote:
Lady Alynis wrote:
Just because you don’t see a big “Hey we fixed this” does not mean that nothing was done.


This just confuses me to no end. Why wouldn't they tell a playerbase who's saying the game is broken when they fix something? Why not announce it when they actually improve or repair something in the game?

It's things like this that makes me wonder if SE is still in the "Devs vs Players" mentality they were in the early days of FFXI.


I do believe that they're doing a lot more work than they're telling us about, which is a good thing.

But yeah, some people are just waiting for the day that SE sends them an email saying "Game is fixed, you can come back now", and that's not going to happen exactly like that. The game is making steady progress, but it's hard to draw a line in the sand and say "The game is now fixed". You could use "They think it's fixed when they start charging" or "They think it's fixed when they release the PS3 version" as a guideline, and either are probably good guidelines to used, but the game is not in a simple state where it is broken, broken, broken, broken, broken, fixed. It's getting progressively better, and while there are still people getting fed up and leaving because they can't wait any longer, it looks like there are also people coming back after every patch because they believe "This patch is just what I needed to come back".

Once SE has the game to a point where they feel it's "fixed" and presentable, they really need to get the word out to all the people who left to come back and try it again. I may be checking in from time to time, but I know that not everyone is.
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#39 Mar 07 2011 at 11:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Question, are we going to continue to see Doomsday post with every update?
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#40 Mar 07 2011 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
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Caesura wrote:
Quote:
Currently FFXIV is (September 22 to March 7) - almost exactly 5 1/2 months old. We have a full year ahead of us if you want to compare to Japanese/NA launch schedule.

True. Also, irrelevant, unless we actually think it's okay for a company to learn nothing after having been through all of this before.

The question isn't how to compare FFXIV's launch to the launch of FFXI eight years ago. It's a given that SE will learn the lesson faster the second time. The question is, why do they need to learn the same lesson twice?


Agreed...but I just wanted to correct the timeline for the people who do keep mentioning FFXI launch. My issue isn't with the idea that there should be corporate learning, but that people make up facts and then use those made up facts in debate.

Notice that I specifically said things like "if you want to compare to", not that "you should compare to"



Edited, Mar 7th 2011 12:53pm by NayliaMR
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#41 Mar 07 2011 at 11:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I do believe that they're doing a lot more work than they're telling us about, which is a good thing.

But yeah, some people are just waiting for the day that SE sends them an email saying "Game is fixed, you can come back now", and that's not going to happen exactly like that. The game is making steady progress, but it's hard to draw a line in the sand and say "The game is now fixed". You could use "They think it's fixed when they start charging" or "They think it's fixed when they release the PS3 version" as a guideline, and either are probably good guidelines to used, but the game is not in a simple state where it is broken, broken, broken, broken, broken, fixed. It's getting progressively better, and while there are still people getting fed up and leaving because they can't wait any longer, it looks like there are also people coming back after every patch because they believe "This patch is just what I needed to come back".

Once SE has the game to a point where they feel it's "fixed" and presentable, they really need to get the word out to all the people who left to come back and try it again. I may be checking in from time to time, but I know that not everyone is.
I think how it will go down is once the devs feel it is ready to pay for they'll launch PS3 version along with the Return to Eorzea email compaign. You'll start to see FFXIV ads pop up again along with new footage and feature on websites.
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#42 Mar 07 2011 at 12:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Would not blame them in the least. They released a product that was not able to capture a large enough base, and never became profitable. Its no different than canceling a TV show with poor ratings. I'd be disappointed that at that point it would be official I will never see real enjoyment out of my invested time and interest in the game, but I'm about resigned to that point now anyways.
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#43 Mar 07 2011 at 12:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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NayliaMR wrote:
Caesura wrote:
Quote:
Currently FFXIV is (September 22 to March 7) - almost exactly 5 1/2 months old. We have a full year ahead of us if you want to compare to Japanese/NA launch schedule.

True. Also, irrelevant, unless we actually think it's okay for a company to learn nothing after having been through all of this before.

The question isn't how to compare FFXIV's launch to the launch of FFXI eight years ago. It's a given that SE will learn the lesson faster the second time. The question is, why do they need to learn the same lesson twice?


Agreed...but I just wanted to correct the timeline for the people who do keep mentioning FFXI launch. My issue isn't with the idea that there should be corporate learning, but that people make up facts and then use those made up facts in debate.



And people also seem to forget that the first Closed Beta for FFXIV started in April 2010. Those same people also seem to forget that for the most part, the game we're playing today (March 2011) is the same game we were given to play around with in April 2010. Oh sure we've got some bug fixes and a few new features, but overall it's the same exact game.

I used to use the FFXI timeline as a means to inspire patience in myself and others. After all, look at all the stuff that S-E fixed and/or added during the first six months of launch. Heck... look at all the stuff that S-E fixed and/or added during the first three months of launch. I lost faith in that timeline in December, when it became grossly apparent that there was no magic patch. I had spent most of 2010 looking for that magic patch... and December is when I finally gave up looking for it.

S-E hasn't learned anything from launching and running FFXI. Like I said in another thread, we're all a bunch of a chumps for buying into S-E's BS and continuing to give them chance after chance after chance. They'll add a bunch of content and fix a bunch of issues for the Open Beta! Ok now it's Open Beta... so they'll add a bunch of content and fix a bunch of issues for the CE Release! Ok now it's the CE Release and we're still looking at the exact same game we've had since April... but that's ok! Surely they'll add a bunch of content and fix a bunch of issues for the SE release! Ok now the SE has been released and still waiting... but that's ok! Surely they'll add a bunch of content and fix a bunch of issues for the first major version update in November! And November comes and passes but still nothing... but that's ok, surely they'll add a bunch of content and fix a bunch of issues come March 2011 when the PS3 version launches! Oh look, now S-E is changing up the dev-team and putting the PS3 version on hold indefinitely. But that's ok, new dev-team means we'll get a bunch of new content and fix a bunch of issues within the first three months of the year. After all, Tanaka is gone and Yoshi-P is running things now!

Well... it's month three since the new dev-team took over. So far they've addded a small peppering of content and fixed a smattering of issues. They still got a month to add a bunch of content and fix a bunch of issues.

I sure as heck hope that magic patch materializes at some point. But as I have pointed out in this and other threads, sooner or later even the most stubborn and dense investor is going to start wondering why all this red ink on the quarterly reports isn't going away. And that'll be around the time that FFXIV ceases to be. I hope there's a big ole expansion in the works and everything gets addressed that needs to be addressed before this happens...

But you know what.... almost a year after the first Closed Beta started and still looking at what is essentially the same game has jaded me. And what's worse? I'm having the time of my life playing FFXI again... a game that is nine years old. A shame S-E didn't learn anything from it's nine year old workhorse.

Edited, Mar 7th 2011 10:11am by oberonqa
#44 Mar 07 2011 at 12:08 PM Rating: Good
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If FFXIV got scrapped, it would be interesting to see how (if?) they make a Final Fantasy XV. Though I doubt that PDD3 will be allowed to touch a main title ever again.

As for the main topic, it's too early to tell. Final Fantasy is usually a title that caters to the console audience. If the PS3 version fails, then I don't blame them at all. But I also don't blame them for trying to make this work. They did spend over a half of a decade to get this to work. If you thought "Spirits Within" was a bomb for "Square Pictures" ten years ago, you haven't seen anything yet if this game were to fail.



Edited, Mar 7th 2011 10:13am by UltKnightGrover
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#45 Mar 07 2011 at 12:21 PM Rating: Default
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What investors do people keep talking about? You mean stockholders? Stockholders don't get to make decisions for the company. Are you talking about the board of directors? Like Yoichi Wada? I'm sure it was his decision to change the development team so I'm confused about these investors that are gonna tell Yoshida to pull the plug.
#46 Mar 07 2011 at 12:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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I strongly believe that Spirits Within only bombed because it had Final Fantasy in the name. It's a similar problem that stifles FFXIV. When you put "Final Fantasy" in the product's title, players expect certain things. Crystals, Chocobos, what have you. Beyond that, what people expect out of a FF title varies wildly from person to person.

I thought TWS was a good movie in its own right but I don't feel it "felt like Final Fantasy". I can't really quantify that in words, but I didn't. I felt a similar feeling towards 13; unlike TSW, I disliked 13, but I do feel that it has a lot to do with the fact that with the words "Final Fantasy" in the title, I expected "something" and I don't feel I got it. I'm confident I'm not the only one that feels this way.

Interestingly, the only thing keeping XIV afloat right now -is- the FF name. If they had just called it Rapture, I think they would have been content to let it go down the drain and chalk it up as a loss. The problem SE is faced with now is that it is (dare I use the term) "too big to fail". Recovering FFXIV from a failed launch to even end up as a mediocre game with less subs than XI would still be a lesser failure in the long run than calling it a loss and dumping it.

I'm not saying I think XIV's max potential is that of a mediocre game with low sales, just that even if it never does fully recover, it's still beter for their businass image that they tried and got it that far than if they throw their hands in the air and give up.

All the little no name companies that develop an MMORPG and fold within a month or two are quickly forgotten. People would remember the promises SE failed to deliver on with XIV for over a decade if it went under.
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#47 Mar 07 2011 at 12:40 PM Rating: Decent
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602 posts
SE would never scrap XIV.

Its a FF title.

It costed several millions and years to produce.

Shutting it down would damage the company's image and any other potential titles.

Threads like this getting rated as good with so many good threads getting down voted make me happy tomorrow the official forums are opening. Can't wait to jump ship and spit on zam's corpse from afar.

Edited, Mar 7th 2011 1:40pm by MajidahSihaam
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#48 Mar 07 2011 at 12:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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MajidahSihaam wrote:
SE would never scrap XIV.

Its a FF title.

It costed several millions and years to produce.

Shutting it down would damage the company's image and any other potential titles.

Threads like this getting rated as good with so many good threads getting down voted make me happy tomorrow the official forums are opening. Can't wait to jump ship and spit on zam's corpse from afar.

Edited, Mar 7th 2011 1:40pm by MajidahSihaam


Why? They adknowledged that they messed up. I have way more respect for SE now than I have in a long time. I would understand if they shut it down. Keeping this game free to play for 6 months now is definitely fair enough to the people who bought it. It doesn't make sense financially. It's called the sunk cost fallacy. The idea that you keep throwing money at something because you have invested tons in it already. Many companies have lost millions upon millions of dollars by operating under this sunk cost fallacy.

I'm glad Yoshi-P took over but lets think about it for a second. How much better would a game be if Yoshi-P led the charge from the get go rather than trying to slap bandaids on a game.
#49 Mar 07 2011 at 12:58 PM Rating: Good
PeoplesChamp wrote:
What investors do people keep talking about? You mean stockholders? Stockholders don't get to make decisions for the company. Are you talking about the board of directors? Like Yoichi Wada? I'm sure it was his decision to change the development team so I'm confused about these investors that are gonna tell Yoshida to pull the plug.


Interesting. I had to do a bit of research to understand this better. I have to wonder what kind of information Yoichi Wada gets concerning FFXIV development. You are quite right, though. He appears to be the #1 decision maker.
#50 Mar 07 2011 at 1:06 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
wrongfeifong wrote:
I mean, get real, FFXI has been under 500k subscriber for 3 years.

It was not until TOAU release that they announce a 1 million break through.
FFXI never had 1 million subscribers. It plateaued around 500k.
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#51 Mar 07 2011 at 1:11 PM Rating: Decent
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2,202 posts
When a self proclaimed NEXT-GENERATION MMO! Launches and does not even brake's the 1 million mark of box sold, that on itself is a FAILURE!! WAR sold a million units, so did AOC, So will Rift(The only next generation MMO besides FFXIV in the market now) fact is, that FFXIV has not sold the units they SHIPPED Yet! Also when your player base goes from a few hundred thousand to below fifty thousand, well that's another Failure! Now i know what you will say, but ostia, those games are failures too, and yes they ARE! But they had a very good start, and they died before the year was over of their release, now half a year has passed since the release of this game, and sadly it is still FAILING! On every level, there is nothing that any other MMO out there wants to copy from this game, i wonder why ?

So there is a measurement we can use to know when a MMO has either failed or bombed, now sure a game can survive for X amount of time, with just a base number of users, but this is 2011, we know there are atleast 13 million people who play MMO's, and if you only have 30k well thats fail :)
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