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#1 Mar 15 2011 at 3:26 AM Rating: Default
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What are some ideas from OTHER MMORPGs that would go well with Final Fantasy XIV?

I want to brainstorm some ideas so that we can post something good on the feedback section of this forum, or the official forums themselves.

Okay, let me start... MORE CONTENT!
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#2 Mar 15 2011 at 3:33 AM Rating: Good
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Mog house, rested exp(instead of surplus),auction house,advanced jobs,mounts,fishing contests, duels.
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#3 Mar 15 2011 at 8:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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tpgsoldier wrote:
Mog house, rested exp(instead of surplus),auction house,advanced jobs,mounts,fishing contests, duels.


I like every idea here except for duels; perhaps it has just been my bad experience with them in WoW but I've had far too many people who want to come up to me and spam duel over and over and over and call me all sorts of names because I won't accept. I'd be okay with duels if there was a specific dueling zone and you couldn't duel outside of it.

As for the AH, I think an AH would be nice, but if they add the ability to search items wanted as well as items for sale to the search screen, as well as search repairs needed, and they add the ability to list sales, items wanted, and repairs at the search window, it would be a better system than an AH.

Beyond that, I think some more low level, mid level, and high level content would be nice; something like instanced dungeons, or perhaps something similar to Garrison, some more NMs too.
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#4 Mar 15 2011 at 8:31 AM Rating: Good
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I don't think any specific ideas need to be borrowed from any other games.

Put simply, the game just needs to be better. It was obviously far from completion when released. They threw together the combat system, which is a nightmare. They half-assed the interface, they made no attempt to make it PC-friendly, they failed to consider issues of lag. Perhaps worst, they never really wrote any content for it, beyond a few cut scenes. They didn't create villages, farms, battlefields, dungeons, mines, churches.

All they need to do is their jobs, and take the creative energy that inspired many elements of the game (which has promise) and see it to fruition.
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#5 Mar 15 2011 at 9:00 AM Rating: Decent
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WAR's public quest system. Absolutely great and would fit in well here. ****, they could even bring it up a step or two.
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#6 Mar 15 2011 at 10:10 AM Rating: Good
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yfaithfully wrote:
I don't think any specific ideas need to be borrowed from any other games.

Put simply, the game just needs to be better. It was obviously far from completion when released. They threw together the combat system, which is a nightmare. They half-assed the interface, they made no attempt to make it PC-friendly, they failed to consider issues of lag. Perhaps worst, they never really wrote any content for it, beyond a few cut scenes. They didn't create villages, farms, battlefields, dungeons, mines, churches.

All they need to do is their jobs, and take the creative energy that inspired many elements of the game (which has promise) and see it to fruition.


Normally, I think this is a vary good idea when trying to create a game. However, its not right for the situation we are in right now. We had our inspired Auteur creator and he made something that wasn't good. Now a new guys holding the reigns, but its not his game. hes fixing it, and as good as his ideas may be when working form the ground up, I don't want to see him try and cram his stuff into an already created mold either. From the sounds of it with the polls, he seems to recognize this too.

I think when it comes to recovery like this, taking ideas that players know they want is a much better idea. However, it will limit the long term potential, but at the same time helps ensure that there is a long term.

Off the top of my head~
Personal mounts/chocobos
removing the ties from weapon/class
addition of non weapon based classes (kinda like we have with casters)
remove the ability for crafters to complete the "combat" storyline, increase the difficulty of that storyline. Create a crafter's storyline along side. Crafters doing missions has cheapened them from day one.

WOW-style AH. I know its in other games too but people know what I mean when I saw wow-style. Its completely streamlined, no price history, no bidding or cheap undercutting tactics (selling the item at current price -4gil cause you know everyone else is selling at current price -3). It lists every current item, at its current price, when its bought its gone and no longer there to drive the price up/down. What we have now is pretty ok, but this is better.
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#7 Mar 15 2011 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
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This is a good thread. No reason to reinvent the genre; the wheel is round for a reason.

See, RIFT

I don't want this to be an advertisement for RIFT (b/c there are already plenty of those all over ZAM). I'm only here because I want FFXIV to succeed. That being said, RIFT succeeds because it takes a lot of ideas from other MMO's and integrates them all pretty **** well. There is absolutely nothing brand new, revolutionary, innovative, or unique about RIFT: it implements all of the tried and true MMORPG mechanics into a cohesive whole.

At any given moment in RIFT, you click "M" to bring up your map and you are instantly presented a variety of options:

~ there's a quest marker for a mob you need to kill or an item you need to find

~ there's an instanced dungeon to explore and a party is shouting for members just outside

~ there's a huge public quest group converging on a newly opened rift (picture a spontaneous PvE pick-up-group world raid event that you just jump into with the click of a button)

~ there's a small invasion force of enemy NPC's attacking a nearby town that needs your help defending

~ there's an enemy NPC foothold base that needs to be razed

~ there's a PvP skirmish erupting nearby

~ there's a zone wide invasion with at least a dozen rifts opening up and pouring enemies into the world (picture a zone wide raid world event)(OK - this isn't an available every time you open your map...)


Rift has been out for a few weeks (I think? Please correct me if I'm wrong...) but it already has exponentially more content and polish than FFXIV does. The game is just fun. You open your world map, run around, do some quests, do some of the other events described above, all while leveling and advancing your character. RIFT masks the grind very well, and IMO, this is where FFXIV completely and utterly fails. It's a long, slow, painful grind to 50 on any job, and SE hasn't provided enough distractions along the way to keep people interested. No matter how good your end-game is, no one is going to tolerate a soul crushing grind from 1-49.

Edited, Mar 15th 2011 12:24pm by thejones
#8 Mar 15 2011 at 10:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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KujaKoF wrote:
WOW-style AH. I know its in other games too but people know what I mean when I saw wow-style. Its completely streamlined, no price history, no bidding or cheap undercutting tactics (selling the item at current price -4gil cause you know everyone else is selling at current price -3). It lists every current item, at its current price, when its bought its gone and no longer there to drive the price up/down. What we have now is pretty ok, but this is better.


I'm going to have to disagree on the WoW style AH, because the lack of a price history made it difficult to tell what an item was worth. You pretty much NEEDED Auctioneer to make up for the lack of a price history.

I thought FFXI's AH system was fine (although I would like to be able to list more goods) but I think that FFXIV is on the right track if they add the changes I mentioned earlier. (Ability to post, view, and buy from the search pane, and ability to list items for sale, items people are looking for, and repairs)
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#9ViKtoricus, Posted: Mar 15 2011 at 1:04 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Why did I get a default score for this thread? WTF.
#10 Mar 15 2011 at 2:17 PM Rating: Good
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Why did I get a default score for this thread? WTF.
Why are you derailing your own thread with a karma complaint?
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#11 Mar 15 2011 at 2:23 PM Rating: Good
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I agree with removing the tie from weapon to class. It's a little frustrating.

As the game is now, it works fine, because we only have seven classes. (No, I'm not counting the crafting. I don't care how much effort the game puts into trying to get players to craft for as long as they would adventuring. Crafting always has, and always will be a side-chore for me. The mini-game approach, while interesting, isn't practical and makes me stay the **** away from it. /endrant). So with having so few classes, it doesn't matter that they would be tied to a specific type of weapon. But if we ever want the game to evolve, and really get interesting, they're going to have to have a system that allows equipping different types of weaponry. Take Red Mage for an example. In other FF games, (including and going beyond FFXI), they could equip swords, daggers, wands, staffs, clubs... am I missing anything? I just think that having a class that does better in one type of weapon over another is fine. But for the sake of diversity, (which is lacking in this game, though many solo-players feel it is great), it would be nice to be able to equip different weapons for different occasions. It's something that many other games, (including previous Final Fantasy games), have had. I like how quickly we can change our classes, but there are other ways to do that, rather than carrying a bunch of weapons with us at all times.

Also, a Mog House and/or Bank system would be nice. Mail-boxes so I can send things to my friends even when they aren't online.

The AH system could be updated to work a little smoother. The point is that people don't like wasting time looking for a specific item. Imagine what FFXI would have been like if a Ranger ran out of ammo, and had to warp back to town to spend 15-20 minutes looking for ammo alone. There is no reason it should take that long. And with all the market crashes that were going on, the retainer system is just awful. You have to go re-setup shop, which means that you have to pay very close attention to your sales. It really takes time away from actually playing the game / adventuring. (I know, there isn't much to do at the moment. But if the game did have content or engaging zones that were fun to explore, then the amount of time spent at AH would be very frustrating).

Obviously: Chocobos and Airships.

As far as Chocobos go, I am torn between the renting system and the personal mount system. Both have pros and cons. I suppose the only con of a personal mount system was filling more bag-space. But I liked FFXI's version of personal mounts, because it had to be actively worked for. I think maybe, though, they should make the system a little easier to follow. (I got a black chocobo, and was so excited. Unfortunately it's run-speed was crap. I only used it when I was in a zone that I wanted to get around aggressive mobs without dieing).

Airship system was fine in FFXI. Routes went to every city in a decent amount of time, and it had to be earned. I'm wondering why we've found the airship points out in the middle of no-where though....


Instanced Dungeons? Hmm... what would it be like if we had WoW's Dungeons, with FFXI's classes / abilities / battle system? That could be interesting. I've always likened the WoW vs FFXI debate to Checkers vs Chess. Some people will like one more than another. But dungeons and raids were the main thing about WoW that was actually fun for me. If I got a party of good friends, we would have decent team-work skills, and it made the various puzzles and fight strategies fun. In FFXI group content, it was still fun, but maybe a little slower paced than I would have liked it. But that's because it took six people to kill a regular mobs at their level in a one minute time frame. Group content should have group vs group mechanics, which is something that was promised, but I have yet to see. I suppose SE's thought on that was giving us leve quests that pull two claimed mobs at a time? Not very interesting, or dynamic.

Honestly, I can't wait to see the class-changes. I think that, despite all the whiners who don't want their efforts to be tampered with, (which is silly, because if we don't fix the problem now, it's only going to get worse, and then fixing it will really hurt), changing the classes will be a good thing. It's a Final Fantasy game. What do you mean we don't have any Final Fantasy classes? (Or at least the traditional ones). The Final Fantasy class system has always been centralized around clearly defined roles in a group. I understand the need to make the game capable to be solo'd by every class. It's a trend in MMO's and it makes money from players who aren't good at socializing, or that may otherwise not have time to coordinate a group. That was, after all, the single-most pronounced issue in FFXI, was the time invested in parties to gain experience. Not that it is a bad thing, just that it took a long time. (Personally, I liked it. It weeded out the bad players who wouldn't cooperate. After a while, they either had to reroll a character, because players would see their name and go "Oh **** no, I'm not playing with that jerk again." Or they'd just leave completely).

#12 Mar 15 2011 at 5:36 PM Rating: Good
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Mog house and everything mog house related. Chocobos. More stuff to do while not ranking/grinding leves/dry-grinding. Exploration deeds & rewards (to make us explore the world, mobs and lore), some sort of statistics of our game life (no, history on Lodestone isn't good). Cutscenes for quests. Gardening..... There's tones more, but let's not go berzerk >_>

#13 Mar 15 2011 at 5:40 PM Rating: Good
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ViKtoricus wrote:
Why did I get a default score for this thread? WTF.

If I had to guess, it's perhaps cause you just said "more content" without providing any constructive ideas - which in term might have been viewed by someone as a joke/flame/agro/QQ post, thus giving you a lower score :/
#14 Mar 15 2011 at 10:38 PM Rating: Default
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I was wondering...

What about reversing the concept of behests? And no, I'm not suggesting we ELIMINATE behests, but add some kind of content that is the OPPOSITE of behests.

In a behest, mobs raid us. In a typical, MMORPG raid, we raid the mobs.
So I think we should have some kind of quest that allows us to go into some unfamiliar areas (whether it is Coerthas, Mor Dhona, or some brand new areas from SE) and raid certain mobs (WITH SP GAINS) and get rewarded with decent loots.

...And after that, more classes. I can't wait for the musketeer to come out. (Did you know that Rift currently has more classes than FFXIV? We have to compete with that.)
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#15seiferdincht, Posted: Mar 16 2011 at 1:05 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) XI-style cutscenes during quests. XI style depth to stats that are affected by everything the player does meaning that every player has a different set of stats.
#16 Mar 16 2011 at 1:58 AM Rating: Default
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I think this is the most important one they need to Implement.

Have a direction :)

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#17 Mar 16 2011 at 6:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
BTW if there's anything I've learned from this thread is that I don't want to even try Rift, ever.


I also hate games with content and interesting stuff to do. I prefer slow, boring, and repetitive content.
#18 Mar 16 2011 at 7:01 AM Rating: Decent
thejones wrote:
Quote:
BTW if there's anything I've learned from this thread is that I don't want to even try Rift, ever.


I also hate games with content and interesting stuff to do. I prefer slow, boring, and repetitive content.


Agreed.
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#19 Mar 16 2011 at 8:17 AM Rating: Default
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thejones wrote:
Quote:
BTW if there's anything I've learned from this thread is that I don't want to even try Rift, ever.


I also hate games with content and interesting stuff to do. I prefer slow, boring, and repetitive content.


There's only one thing about Rift that I don't like that will prevent me from ever even giving it a try, and it's not even the PvP, it's the UI. Looks too much like WoW's UI. If they had managed to come up with a UI that looked different, I'd love to give it a try, but if I wanted to play a game that looked and felt like WoW, I'd play WoW.

And I'm not even playing FFXIV yet until it's fun, and perhaps Rift very well is fun. But I can't get past the WoW-Xerox UI, from the talent tree soul tree to the rogues whatever Rift calls them with 5 energy points in 5 little bubbles to the right of the enemy picture in a bubble to the right of yours, in the upper left of the screen...

Sorry. I liked the UI in WoW, it worked fine. But if I'm going to play another game (Eve, FFXI, FFXIV, DDO, RO) then come up with your own UI and at least try to make it LOOK like you didn't just copy every little detail as-is.

So yeah, even if the game is fun, I'll never know unless they can come up with an original UI.
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#20 Mar 16 2011 at 9:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Rift really isn't great...but it's consistently good all around. It doesn't do anything exceptionally well and there's definitely nothing revolutionary about it, but it also doesn't do anything exceptionally bad (the UI does suck though ><). That's my glowing review of Rift.

Only reason I brought Rift up in this thread is that the game essentially contains every tried and true MMO gameplay mechanic in the last 10 years. If you are looking for a pretty comprehensive list of MMO gameplay mechanics / ideas / concepts, they are all there.

Some games succeed by doing a few things particularly well (i.e. GW known for it's great PvP), others succeed by doing a lot of things sufficiently (see, WoW, Rift). Unfortunately, I'm not sure that FFXIV in it's current state falls into either category. Of course, some games succeed on the IP alone...
#21 Mar 16 2011 at 10:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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Right now, the IP is the only thing keeping XIV alive. If the game didn't have "Final Fantasy" in its title, if it was any other developer, it would have been abandoned and written off. SE is only throwing all their cash at this project because the IP is, for lack of a better term, "too big to fail".

Edited, Mar 16th 2011 12:04pm by Mikhalia
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#22 Mar 16 2011 at 10:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
thejones wrote:
Quote:
BTW if there's anything I've learned from this thread is that I don't want to even try Rift, ever.


I also hate games with content and interesting stuff to do. I prefer slow, boring, and repetitive content.


There's only one thing about Rift that I don't like that will prevent me from ever even giving it a try, and it's not even the PvP, it's the UI. Looks too much like WoW's UI. If they had managed to come up with a UI that looked different, I'd love to give it a try, but if I wanted to play a game that looked and felt like WoW, I'd play WoW.

And I'm not even playing FFXIV yet until it's fun, and perhaps Rift very well is fun. But I can't get past the WoW-Xerox UI, from the talent tree soul tree to the rogues whatever Rift calls them with 5 energy points in 5 little bubbles to the right of the enemy picture in a bubble to the right of yours, in the upper left of the screen...

Sorry. I liked the UI in WoW, it worked fine. But if I'm going to play another game (Eve, FFXI, FFXIV, DDO, RO) then come up with your own UI and at least try to make it LOOK like you didn't just copy every little detail as-is.

So yeah, even if the game is fun, I'll never know unless they can come up with an original UI.


There is really only so much you can do with a UI though. I look at FFXIV's UI and I see a strictly worse version of the wow/rift UI. I feel that rift failed to make the same mistake that FFXIV did, which was change things for the sake of changing them.
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#23 Mar 16 2011 at 11:10 AM Rating: Good
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KujaKoF wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
thejones wrote:
Quote:
BTW if there's anything I've learned from this thread is that I don't want to even try Rift, ever.


I also hate games with content and interesting stuff to do. I prefer slow, boring, and repetitive content.


There's only one thing about Rift that I don't like that will prevent me from ever even giving it a try, and it's not even the PvP, it's the UI. Looks too much like WoW's UI. If they had managed to come up with a UI that looked different, I'd love to give it a try, but if I wanted to play a game that looked and felt like WoW, I'd play WoW.

And I'm not even playing FFXIV yet until it's fun, and perhaps Rift very well is fun. But I can't get past the WoW-Xerox UI, from the talent tree soul tree to the rogues whatever Rift calls them with 5 energy points in 5 little bubbles to the right of the enemy picture in a bubble to the right of yours, in the upper left of the screen...

Sorry. I liked the UI in WoW, it worked fine. But if I'm going to play another game (Eve, FFXI, FFXIV, DDO, RO) then come up with your own UI and at least try to make it LOOK like you didn't just copy every little detail as-is.

So yeah, even if the game is fun, I'll never know unless they can come up with an original UI.


There is really only so much you can do with a UI though. I look at FFXIV's UI and I see a strictly worse version of the wow/rift UI. I feel that rift failed to make the same mistake that FFXIV did, which was change things for the sake of changing them.


What are your thoughts of the UI in Ragnarok Online, Eve, or D&D Online? They look nothing like WoW and they're pretty functional and easy to use.
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#24 Mar 16 2011 at 11:13 AM Rating: Decent
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In addition to a lot of what's already been posted, I'd like to see some voice acting.
#25 Mar 16 2011 at 12:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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ViKtoricus wrote:
Why did I get a default score for this thread? WTF.
Whining about karma is just begging for rate downs as-is. As for the topic itself, probably a 3rd of the threads in the last year here have covered this topic implicitly, so it's pretty useless to talk about it again in another generic 'suggestions' thread.
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#26 Mar 16 2011 at 12:40 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
thejones wrote:
Quote:
BTW if there's anything I've learned from this thread is that I don't want to even try Rift, ever.


I also hate games with content and interesting stuff to do. I prefer slow, boring, and repetitive content.


There's only one thing about Rift that I don't like that will prevent me from ever even giving it a try, and it's not even the PvP, it's the UI. Looks too much like WoW's UI. If they had managed to come up with a UI that looked different, I'd love to give it a try, but if I wanted to play a game that looked and felt like WoW, I'd play WoW.

And I'm not even playing FFXIV yet until it's fun, and perhaps Rift very well is fun. But I can't get past the WoW-Xerox UI, from the talent tree soul tree to the rogues whatever Rift calls them with 5 energy points in 5 little bubbles to the right of the enemy picture in a bubble to the right of yours, in the upper left of the screen...

Sorry. I liked the UI in WoW, it worked fine. But if I'm going to play another game (Eve, FFXI, FFXIV, DDO, RO) then come up with your own UI and at least try to make it LOOK like you didn't just copy every little detail as-is.

So yeah, even if the game is fun, I'll never know unless they can come up with an original UI.


There is really only so much you can do with a UI though. I look at FFXIV's UI and I see a strictly worse version of the wow/rift UI. I feel that rift failed to make the same mistake that FFXIV did, which was change things for the sake of changing them.


What are your thoughts of the UI in Ragnarok Online, Eve, or D&D Online? They look nothing like WoW and they're pretty functional and easy to use.


I'd argue that Ragnarok online and D&D online have the same basic UI as WOW does. Everythings just in a different color and font, and a few things are in different places. They're showing the same things. I guess I just don't understand how these are different enough that its ok, yet rift's is so similar its a gamebreaking flaw.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time or anything, its just such a non issue for me. It'd be like refusing to read a book because its in helvetica and not times new roman.
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#27 Mar 16 2011 at 1:06 PM Rating: Decent
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KujaKoF wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
thejones wrote:
Quote:
BTW if there's anything I've learned from this thread is that I don't want to even try Rift, ever.


I also hate games with content and interesting stuff to do. I prefer slow, boring, and repetitive content.


There's only one thing about Rift that I don't like that will prevent me from ever even giving it a try, and it's not even the PvP, it's the UI. Looks too much like WoW's UI. If they had managed to come up with a UI that looked different, I'd love to give it a try, but if I wanted to play a game that looked and felt like WoW, I'd play WoW.

And I'm not even playing FFXIV yet until it's fun, and perhaps Rift very well is fun. But I can't get past the WoW-Xerox UI, from the talent tree soul tree to the rogues whatever Rift calls them with 5 energy points in 5 little bubbles to the right of the enemy picture in a bubble to the right of yours, in the upper left of the screen...

Sorry. I liked the UI in WoW, it worked fine. But if I'm going to play another game (Eve, FFXI, FFXIV, DDO, RO) then come up with your own UI and at least try to make it LOOK like you didn't just copy every little detail as-is.

So yeah, even if the game is fun, I'll never know unless they can come up with an original UI.


There is really only so much you can do with a UI though. I look at FFXIV's UI and I see a strictly worse version of the wow/rift UI. I feel that rift failed to make the same mistake that FFXIV did, which was change things for the sake of changing them.


What are your thoughts of the UI in Ragnarok Online, Eve, or D&D Online? They look nothing like WoW and they're pretty functional and easy to use.


I'd argue that Ragnarok online and D&D online have the same basic UI as WOW does. Everythings just in a different color and font, and a few things are in different places. They're showing the same things. I guess I just don't understand how these are different enough that its ok, yet rift's is so similar its a gamebreaking flaw.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time or anything, its just such a non issue for me. It'd be like refusing to read a book because its in helvetica and not times new roman.


Honestly, it actually -is- all about placement and layout to me. To compare:

Rift

Character portrait is in a circle with health + magic/energy/power bars to the right, character level is shown below portrait. Slightly redesigned. Chat Window looks almost exactly the same, pretty sure it -is- the same font but I could be wrong, same basic font color.

Minimap in upper right. Character buffs to the left of minimap. Quest progress listed on the right side, below minimap. Characters have individual bags, the basic backpack is 16 slots. Ability bar is at the bottom of the screen and can hold 12 abilities. Currency appears to be gold and silver.

(Not pictured: Rift's Rogue equivalent uses yellow for their energy bar, has combo points, five of them, that are displayed to the right of an enemy's portrait; they're not only stealing UI features, but stealing entire class mechanics)

Art is a slightly better looking version of WoW's art-style, there's a big red circle under the mob this person is attacking. I'm pretty sure the font of the mob's name is the same one WoW uses too, could be wrong.

Not sure what the icons in the lower left are, those are new.

Rift's soul calculator looks awfully similar to WoW's talent tree system.

DDO has the same basic elements, but they move them around a bit and they're redesigned enough that they don't look like a blatant rip-off to me.

RO also has some of the same basic elements, but again.. they redesign them and move them around a bit.

That's all I'm asking for really. Most UIs are going to still have the same basic elements (minimap, abilities, chat log, etc) but at least try to do SOMETHING with them to make them look a little different so that your game doesn't look exactly like every other game out there that all copy the same game to start with. That's the problem; so many games have copied WoW's UI look and feel almost exactly that there is virtually no difference from game to game.

We started with this:
Screenshot


And we got these as a result:
Screenshot

Screenshot


Aside from Allods not even having a minimap, they all look almost exactly the same.

I'm not saying people need to go overboard like SE did and try to make EVERYTHING "different for the sake of being different", but they could at least TRY to make the UI look like something that is instantly recognizable as "Oh, I know what game that is!"

To me, it's more like refusing to read "Joe the Wizard" because the book talks about Muggles and Horcruxes. Come up with something -original- ffs.

EDIT: As I've said before, I'm okay with FFXIV taking this, that and the other from other games if the feature fits well into the game, just so long as they leave the physical layout of the UI alone. I agree that the UI needs drag and drop, and needs some other improvements like remembering class abilities, etc. Just don't make the UI look like a copy and paste of another game (no, not FFXI either) and it's fine. If FFXIV looks like FFXI, it's going to make me want to play FFXI instead. If FFXIV looks like WoW, it's going to make me want to play WoW instead.

That's the problem I've had with each and every WoW clone I've played; Shaiya, Allods... I play for a bit and get to level 10, tops, before I ask myself "Why am I not just playing WoW?" and then I go back to WoW. I could easily see myself picking up Rift, playing it and having fun for about 10 or 15 levels before I say "***** it, if I want to play a game that looks and feels like WoW then I'll play WoW instead" and just go buy Cataclysm.

Edited, Mar 16th 2011 3:14pm by Mikhalia
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#28 Mar 16 2011 at 7:45 PM Rating: Good
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WH40K DMO's UI. But then we have to wait till 2013 after the Apocalypse and see how it will be >_> They promised a UI that looks nothing like MMORPG.

Guild city from Darkfall

Free-aiming like TERA

Naval Warfare + House building like ArcheAge (If the final version don't ***** it up, you never know)

Spaceship Airship Warfare like EVE

Chocobo Racing like, um, idk, those racing MMO?

Fishing like, um, I swear there are some Korean made fishing MMO.

Edited, Mar 16th 2011 9:48pm by Khornette
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#29 Mar 17 2011 at 12:58 AM Rating: Good
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Just...wow that's a whole lot of crap on the UI.

Take this with a grain of salt as I am, have always been and because of my job will always be a console gamer.
I play XIV with a controller and I really hate the PC-look of the UI. I don't get why they can't use the same style as in other FF titles just because it's an MMO.

In XI I can use ALL my spells from the list instead of having to choose a set and I can just fly through the menus because they're always in the same place and thus it's possible to learn their location by heart. Besides the way you can jump a row of spells by pressing up or down in the menu is brilliant and I've never HAD to use macros because it's so easy to use on the controller.

In XIV I have about 1/10th of the skills I have in XI and using them is a mess. It's way too easy to accidentally jump to a wrong row of skill-bar and once you're there you have no clue where to go. Many of the weapon skills icons look exactly alike because the text is so **** small. Sorry for all those pt's that I've killed so far because of accidentally doing an AoE due to this.

I understand that the mouse and keyboard users would like to have probably all that stuff on screen at all times but to a traditional console gamer that looks terribly off-putting.

To put it shortly XI UI for controller isn't perfect but it's a LOT better than XIV UI and it also looks and feels more like a Final Fantasy game because of it. Why not just build on something that works? It has worked on the past 13 Final Fantasy games.
#30 Mar 17 2011 at 1:01 AM Rating: Default
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Khornette wrote:
WH40K DMO's UI. But then we have to wait till 2013 after the Apocalypse and see how it will be >_> They promised a UI that looks nothing like MMORPG.

Guild city from Darkfall

Free-aiming like TERA

Naval Warfare + House building like ArcheAge (If the final version don't ***** it up, you never know)

Spaceship Airship Warfare like EVE

Chocobo Racing like, um, idk, those racing MMO?

Fishing like, um, I swear there are some Korean made fishing MMO.

Edited, Mar 16th 2011 9:48pm by Khornette



While I'm on this rantage I might as well add that XI fishing doesn't have an UI and it feels like a GAME instead of "wait until you get to participate in slow non skill-based lottery"-thing. Just sayin'
#31 Mar 17 2011 at 1:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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thejones wrote:
Rift really isn't great...but it's consistently good all around. It doesn't do anything exceptionally well and there's definitely nothing revolutionary about it, but it also doesn't do anything exceptionally bad (the UI does suck though ><). That's my glowing review of Rift.

Only reason I brought Rift up in this thread is that the game essentially contains every tried and true MMO gameplay mechanic in the last 10 years. If you are looking for a pretty comprehensive list of MMO gameplay mechanics / ideas / concepts, they are all there.

Some games succeed by doing a few things particularly well (i.e. GW known for it's great PvP), others succeed by doing a lot of things sufficiently (see, WoW, Rift). Unfortunately, I'm not sure that FFXIV in it's current state falls into either category. Of course, some games succeed on the IP alone...


Exactly this. Although I like Rift a lot.

I find, as I said in another thread a while ago, that the UI is so familiar that it becomes transparent. It is a non-issue for me. I too was biased against the game (as I've been waiting for GW2 and FFXIV), but really have been impressed with not only the game but the developers and support as well.

Yes, Rift is quite succinctly a better version of WoW, and yet that's what I expected from FFXIV, a better version of FFXI.

#32 Mar 17 2011 at 2:36 AM Rating: Good
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seiferdincht wrote:
Khornette wrote:
WH40K DMO's UI. But then we have to wait till 2013 after the Apocalypse and see how it will be >_> They promised a UI that looks nothing like MMORPG.

Guild city from Darkfall

Free-aiming like TERA

Naval Warfare + House building like ArcheAge (If the final version don't ***** it up, you never know)

Spaceship Airship Warfare like EVE

Chocobo Racing like, um, idk, those racing MMO?

Fishing like, um, I swear there are some Korean made fishing MMO.

Edited, Mar 16th 2011 9:48pm by Khornette



While I'm on this rantage I might as well add that XI fishing doesn't have an UI and it feels like a GAME instead of "wait until you get to participate in slow non skill-based lottery"-thing. Just sayin'


Actually gathering (including fishing) does take some experience to excel at. First, know the node. Second, know the sweet spot. Third, know the better aim. Take Eagle Feather for example, when you first meet it chances are you have only 2 shots at it for a long time. But, quite a big but, if you has experience you can almost always get it. Even more, you can certainly "feel" that it's X Y Z item even before aiming, if you pay attention to the Remainder gauge, and after aiming, based on how how many hits it will take (You're close to... but can not reel/get yet etc.). It's more than luck, but most people don't care/want to know about this.

It's a strategy mini-game, not a reaction-based mini-game.

Edited, Mar 17th 2011 4:36am by Khornette
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#33 Mar 22 2011 at 5:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Just...wow that's a whole lot of crap on the UI.

Take this with a grain of salt as I am, have always been and because of my job will always be a console gamer.
I play XIV with a controller and I really hate the PC-look of the UI. I don't get why they can't use the same style as in other FF titles just because it's an MMO.

In XI I can use ALL my spells from the list instead of having to choose a set and I can just fly through the menus because they're always in the same place and thus it's possible to learn their location by heart. Besides the way you can jump a row of spells by pressing up or down in the menu is brilliant and I've never HAD to use macros because it's so easy to use on the controller.

In XIV I have about 1/10th of the skills I have in XI and using them is a mess. It's way too easy to accidentally jump to a wrong row of skill-bar and once you're there you have no clue where to go. Many of the weapon skills icons look exactly alike because the text is so **** small. Sorry for all those pt's that I've killed so far because of accidentally doing an AoE due to this.

I understand that the mouse and keyboard users would like to have probably all that stuff on screen at all times but to a traditional console gamer that looks terribly off-putting.

To put it shortly XI UI for controller isn't perfect but it's a LOT better than XIV UI and it also looks and feels more like a Final Fantasy game because of it. Why not just build on something that works? It has worked on the past 13 Final Fantasy games.


This.

I played FFXI on both the PS2 and a PC. The great thing about the UI was that it worked decently for both.

On top of that, it actually felt like a Final Fantasy game. I picked a class that had a set of abilities. I could go through my Final Fantasy battle menu, select the ability that I have, and use it. I didn't have to go through the hassle of an Action Point allotment system. Each class knew their set of abilities, and could be customized by using a small portion of another class's abilities. It was an even, very balanced way of handling customization, while keeping a group's roles well defined.

What we have now is just utter crap.

I feel like we're forced to choose only a few abilities that our class has, and even then, most people choose higher level abilities from previously leveled jobs. It makes me wonder, "If you wanted to cast black magic, why didn't you just choose to be a black mage?"

Oh right, we don't have a black mage... we have two healers, and they both have very little use for offensive magics. Debuffs would be nice, but they never land. Other than that, melee DD just use Stamina as a resource to deal damage. So casting attacks is just wasting MP that could be used for healing at this point. Don't get me wrong, I love inviting someone into a group that plays a healing class, only to find out that they are only interested in doing what every other job in the game can do. It's even better when it is a pugilist trying to cast heals.

UI, and over-all reconsideration of definition in classes and the "Point Allotment" system need to be changed. I don't know why they thought this stuff would work....
#34 Mar 22 2011 at 11:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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I feel somewhat like I just argued it...but that's ok. Take-two.
Heartflame wrote:
I played FFXI on both the PS2 and a PC. The great thing about the UI was that it worked decently for both.

With that said, ps2 limitations were a major grievance among players and something they thought had held XI back from the potential (they thought) could be achieved. Had SE updated the graphics, engine and all the nuts and bolts of XI and left the ps2 behind, we probably wouldn't be playing XIV right now.
Heartflame wrote:
Each class knew their set of abilities, and could be customized by using a small portion of another class's abilities. It was an even, very balanced way of handling customization, while keeping a group's roles well defined.

Bolded the important parts. So in your mind, "small portion" equates to "even, very balanced"? One of the things I glean from the direction the XIV team took was to maximize the ability to customize our characters. While the implementation was lacking, I think the idea was noble. I have never had so much fun in a game as a game where I could pick and choose for myself what I wanted to specialize in. But that's just me. Customizing characters is not for everyone, hence the cookie-cutter outlook.
Heartflame wrote:
It makes me wonder, "If you wanted to cast black magic, why didn't you just choose to be a black mage?"Oh right, we don't have a black mage... we have two healers, and they both have very little use for offensive magics.

This I couldn't agree with more. But sadly, it doesn't come as much of surprise. SE would seem to have problems balancing any non-physical damage dealers. (Including pet jobs.) At least in regards to MMOs.
Heartflame wrote:
UI, and over-all reconsideration of definition in classes and the "Point Allotment" system need to be changed. I don't know why they thought this stuff would work....

I seem to recall that skill-based, player-appointed-points have worked in a fair few games in the past. And perhaps they thought it might be a refreshing change for us to be able to tweak our character to be exactly how we envisioned them.....sadly, the implementation was seriously lacking.
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#35 Mar 22 2011 at 11:54 PM Rating: Decent
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In reply to Wintersage:

I do like the subjob system. It seemed like a neat way to get people to spice up their character without making main classes useless.

In FFXIV, the way things are, someone can cast Cure 3 on a character below rank 10, without even being a DoM. I understand why people like the ability to choose every single ability in the game. But that is part of the problem. Without a reason to choose one class over another, we end up with people who max every job and choose only the spells and abilities that are very powerful, rather than having a single class be good at something.

I don't remember where, but I posted in another thread where someone made this (rather cartoonish) scenario:

Gladiator is fighting a mob, taking a decent beating, realizing that their physical damage is very low, and that they are getting wailed on. So they cast Cure3 and heal to full, while blocking. Then debuff the mob to have weaker defense and attack, and then proceeds to nuke it with tier 2 nukes once they figure out that it still isn't taking much physical damage.

There are two ways to view this. There are the people who go "Cool! Look at how 'customized' he is, because he can cast every spell and ability in the game, while wearing plate armor, having high health, and a shield! Isn't that neat?" Then there are those who say, "Wow. If you can do that, then what's the point of playing anything else? We just level up every class and make some paragon warrior that isn't different from any other person who did the exact same thing."

I fall in the latter.

In FFXI, (yes, I'm comparing them. It's impossible to separate them, as they are both Final Fantasy games, and FFXI laid down the ground work for an online envision of the franchise. Deal with it.), we had Main Jobs and Sub Jobs. The idea was that every Main Job had a specific role in a party. This was a good thing. If I played a Black Mage, I wasn't going to be expected to heal. (A problem I think a lot of lolblm-Conjurers are having). When I played my White Mage, I knew what my job was. So on, and so forth.... The Sub-job was a neat way to add some difference for situations in the game. For example, I could play White Mage / Summoner for the auto-refresh, and some interesting AoE buffs to play with, and it made my character a better support. Or I could go /RDM for fast-cast. Or /blm for warp and rest-mp+. In some situations, I could go /nin for shadows and dual weild, (something I think FFXIV needs to avoid is a "go-to" set of "customizations."), and it made me better at damage mitigation.

Another example could be Samurai. /War gave Berserk, and the ability to be a SATA partner. /Thf gave SATA, Flee, and more dexterity. Or, (after I got my Soboro Sukehiro), I could go /Rng and use that Archery skill to kick some serious ****. Effectively, Samurai is a damage dealing class. But the Sub-jobs didn't rob the class of it's own definition. It made it so the class itself had a reason to be the main job. The sub-jobs just suplemented it, and added a different style to how the job was performed. /War = DoT (berserk), /Thf = Spike Damage (SATA), and /Rng = ridiculous with a Soboro, (back in the day. I don't know what it's like now).

The thing you should be taking away from this is: Every class had a role that the specialized in. The way they were customized was how they performed each role.

I think you are under the assumption that "customization" means to add more abilities to your character. What you are forgetting is that if we don't have to give anything up, then it isn't making us more unique at all. There is no trade-off. It just becomes a race to see who can level everything up the fastest, so they can have the most abilities.

What generally seems to be the appeal is that people can make an all-around character that excels in absolutely everything under the sun. They think it's neat, or cool to be able to do anything at anytime. This takes the challenge out of the game. Ultimately, it's just a bunch of people who think "customized" means "more powerful." Customized is meant to mean "to make things individualized, or unique." How unique is the game, really? Everything looks the same. Especially the class system.


I'm sorry if you think this is "cookie-cutter." I've just always thought that a tank was a tank, and a healer was a healer. I thought people liked to play MMOs where they can come together to overcome obstacles by adding their own set of traits to a party, and not just out-numbering the opposition.



To be fair, I heard a good compromise a while back:

If they changed it so the equipped class was similar to a main job, they could make all of the abilities able to be equipped limited to half the level of the equipped job. In this way, players wouldn't have to pick a specific one class to be a "sub-job." Instead, they would have to choose a main job, (that hopefully after the class over-haul will be more defined), and that they can choose from the other classes to add to their pre-existing set of skills.

Personally, I think this is fair. I'm sure that there are some who feel otherwise. But without definition, there is no reason to play a Gladiator over a Marauder. You just pick which job you feel looks best, and equip it with the exact same set of skills....

Just my two gil. Make of it what you want. I'm just hoping that people understand what customization actually means. I keep seeing the word thrown around a lot, but no one seems to get the big picture.

You're unique, just like everyone else....
#36Ilean, Posted: Mar 23 2011 at 12:13 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Just go back to XI.
#37ViKtoricus, Posted: Mar 23 2011 at 1:47 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) (originally posted at a separate thread.)
#38 Mar 23 2011 at 2:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Heartflame wrote:
I don't remember where, but I posted in another thread where someone made this (rather cartoonish) scenario:

Gladiator is fighting a mob, taking a decent beating, realizing that their physical damage is very low, and that they are getting wailed on. So they cast Cure3 and heal to full, while blocking. Then debuff the mob to have weaker defense and attack, and then proceeds to nuke it with tier 2 nukes once they figure out that it still isn't taking much physical damage.

There are two ways to view this. There are the people who go "Cool! Look at how 'customized' he is, because he can cast every spell and ability in the game, while wearing plate armor, having high health, and a shield! Isn't that neat?" Then there are those who say, "Wow. If you can do that, then what's the point of playing anything else? We just level up every class and make some paragon warrior that isn't different from any other person who did the exact same thing."

I fall in the latter.
Once SE revamps the way stats work, that scenario shouldn't be as viable.

The stats seem to have minor effects on your character's abilities right now. With some tweaking on SE's part, in order to deal acceptable physical damage, and make those attacks connect, you'll need a decent chunk of STR and DEX.
If your character wanted to successfully Slow or Blind something near or above their level, they'd need a lot of points in Piety.

Right now, it simply doesn't matter much. I was doing absolutely fine on Gladiator 18 (now 25) with no points into STR and DEX. I had been playing Conjurer and Thaumaturge for the previous couple of weeks.


I'm of the opinion that our Phsyical attributes should be primary sources for combat calculations. And that currently, they don't do enough right now.
Also, in the scenario you used, the Gladiator would have to set aside other useful abilities to be able to cure, debuff, and nuke a monster like that.
What's wrong with that trade off? (Even if the scenario wouldn't be as plausible with an updated stat system.)
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#39 Mar 23 2011 at 6:47 PM Rating: Good
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Kirby the Eccentric wrote:

I'm of the opinion that our Phsyical attributes should be primary sources for combat calculations. And that currently, they don't do enough right now.
Also, in the scenario you used, the Gladiator would have to set aside other useful abilities to be able to cure, debuff, and nuke a monster like that.
What's wrong with that trade off? (Even if the scenario wouldn't be as plausible with an updated stat system.)

At the end what that flameheart guy is complaining about is that the gladiator will be able to better solo up to orange mobs. The level difference adjustment ensures that no matter how much you stack VIT red mobs (and HNMs at that) will start hitting you so hard that you won't be able to keep up with curing yourself, not in recast times, not with a gladiator's MP pool and lack of MP recovery abilities (which are DoM onry). Once you start doing raid/HNM level stuff you need to focus on your job's strength, min/max accordingly and if there is any room left you can round yourself up with other classes abilities too.

So he rather have us go back to a XI style rigid system where a lot of combinations don't work for a lot of jobs, while other combinations turn godly. All for what? Just so the game feels more like he thinks a world of magic and monsters should be.

What bothers me is, he can already (well once the servers are up) equip whatever abilities so HIS gladiator is limited to do what he thinks it should. Why does he care how other people play?
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#40 Mar 23 2011 at 6:59 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
That's the problem I've had with each and every WoW clone I've played; Shaiya, Allods... I play for a bit and get to level 10, tops, before I ask myself "Why am I not just playing WoW?" and then I go back to WoW. I could easily see myself picking up Rift, playing it and having fun for about 10 or 15 levels before I say "***** it, if I want to play a game that looks and feels like WoW then I'll play WoW instead" and just go buy Cataclysm.


I couldn't agree more. ^_^
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#41 Mar 23 2011 at 10:38 PM Rating: Good
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Regarding the discussion about casters in XIV; if they wish to continue avoiding defined classes like "white mage", "black mage", etc., one thing they could do is define roles instead. In other words, characters that mark themselves as a DD would get a bonus to damage dealing that would make it more attractive to them (and a party) to actually, well, deal damage. Same thing for tanks, healers, and whatnot.

Just a random idea.^^
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#42 Mar 24 2011 at 12:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Ilean wrote:

At the end what that flameheart guy is complaining about is that the gladiator will be able to better solo up to orange mobs. The level difference adjustment ensures that no matter how much you stack VIT red mobs (and HNMs at that) will start hitting you so hard that you won't be able to keep up with curing yourself, not in recast times, not with a gladiator's MP pool and lack of MP recovery abilities (which are DoM onry). Once you start doing raid/HNM level stuff you need to focus on your job's strength, min/max accordingly and if there is any room left you can round yourself up with other classes abilities too.

So he rather have us go back to a XI style rigid system where a lot of combinations don't work for a lot of jobs, while other combinations turn godly. All for what? Just so the game feels more like he thinks a world of magic and monsters should be.

What bothers me is, he can already (well once the servers are up) equip whatever abilities so HIS gladiator is limited to do what he thinks it should. Why does he care how other people play?


I tend to agree with limiting us somehow more than we are now. I can attest to the gladiator thing being... ummm... true, (not the nuking).

At rank 48 (after I finally got deflection), I just wanted to see how long it would take to get my face bashed in by the Great Buffalo. Having never fought it before, I expected to be beaten to a pulp rather quickly. Using key abilities like sac2, cure2, aegis boon, deflection, stygian spikes and other damage mitigating abilities and factors to remain un-named, I realized how broken the game was, surviving 9.5 minutes solo before running out of MP and having to call it quits. After that, I went around and tested my new combo of abilities on several mobs much higher than me. Unless a mob does tp moves for about 1000 damage or more, depending on the mob of course, gla can keep up infinite MP, and kill just about anything solo, it seems like a broken system. THM is even more abusive from what I hear. I can solo 'some' of the mobs in the rank 60-64 range, sundrake for example is 600sp.

Any THM out there that have done some crazy soloing and can attest to this in words? (not youtube)

the system seems broken at the moment.
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#43 Mar 24 2011 at 1:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Taking your word for it I guess some abilities might have to be toned down a bit when used by other jobs, on the other hand, gladiator becoming a brick wall, not sure if that should be surprising, a few things to consider (and they are honest questions):

Could you keep aggro from others like that against buffalo?
Does it apply to jobs that can't equip shields?
If you can solo red++ mobs like that, would you be getting more exp over time than from more conservative targets?

I bet there are some imbalances in the game, they even acknowledged they can't balance it until they rewrite most of the battle formulas, my point is they should be dealing with balance issues carefully and as granularly as possible, not restricting the whole ability system for it.

BadJoRed wrote:
Ilean wrote:

At the end what that flameheart guy is complaining about is that the gladiator will be able to better solo up to orange mobs. The level difference adjustment ensures that no matter how much you stack VIT red mobs (and HNMs at that) will start hitting you so hard that you won't be able to keep up with curing yourself, not in recast times, not with a gladiator's MP pool and lack of MP recovery abilities (which are DoM onry). Once you start doing raid/HNM level stuff you need to focus on your job's strength, min/max accordingly and if there is any room left you can round yourself up with other classes abilities too.

So he rather have us go back to a XI style rigid system where a lot of combinations don't work for a lot of jobs, while other combinations turn godly. All for what? Just so the game feels more like he thinks a world of magic and monsters should be.

What bothers me is, he can already (well once the servers are up) equip whatever abilities so HIS gladiator is limited to do what he thinks it should. Why does he care how other people play?


I tend to agree with limiting us somehow more than we are now. I can attest to the gladiator thing being... ummm... true, (not the nuking).

At rank 48 (after I finally got deflection), I just wanted to see how long it would take to get my face bashed in by the Great Buffalo. Having never fought it before, I expected to be beaten to a pulp rather quickly. Using key abilities like sac2, cure2, aegis boon, deflection, stygian spikes and other damage mitigating abilities and factors to remain un-named, I realized how broken the game was, surviving 9.5 minutes solo before running out of MP and having to call it quits. After that, I went around and tested my new combo of abilities on several mobs much higher than me. Unless a mob does tp moves for about 1000 damage or more, depending on the mob of course, gla can keep up infinite MP, and kill just about anything solo, it seems like a broken system. THM is even more abusive from what I hear. I can solo 'some' of the mobs in the rank 60-64 range, sundrake for example is 600sp.

Any THM out there that have done some crazy soloing and can attest to this in words? (not youtube)

the system seems broken at the moment.

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#44 Mar 24 2011 at 9:54 AM Rating: Good
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Ilean wrote:

Could you keep aggro from others like that against buffalo?
Does it apply to jobs that can't equip shields?
If you can solo red++ mobs like that, would you be getting more exp over time than from more conservative targets?


I don't understand the first question. Unless you mean keeping hate/aggro off of mages and other DD while fighting it? We fought it a few days later in a party setting, and It was pretty easy to hold hate on it up until the last 10 minutes of the fight, I ran out of MP and had severe problems holding it.

I can't speak for the soloing THMs and whether or not they need the shield, but yeah, as far as DD go, there is no way they could even come close to soloing something as high level that a GLA can due to the shield.

Because they really don't generally reward you killing higher level mobs, It would still probably be faster to kill greenish-orange mobs, depending on the mob of course.

As much as I don't like saying it, the shield abilities seem a little skewed at the moment. I think they should nerf a couple abilities on the shield, but at the same time, make GLA simply take less damage per hit to even it out.

idk really, I eagerly await their decision about the new classes/advanced job system to see what they are going to change.
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#45 Mar 24 2011 at 12:51 PM Rating: Decent
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844 posts
Yes, I meant keep hate on my first question. Guess we'll have to wait for both the battle system changes and battle formulas rewrite.

BadJoRed wrote:
Ilean wrote:

Could you keep aggro from others like that against buffalo?
Does it apply to jobs that can't equip shields?
If you can solo red++ mobs like that, would you be getting more exp over time than from more conservative targets?


I don't understand the first question. Unless you mean keeping hate/aggro off of mages and other DD while fighting it? We fought it a few days later in a party setting, and It was pretty easy to hold hate on it up until the last 10 minutes of the fight, I ran out of MP and had severe problems holding it.

I can't speak for the soloing THMs and whether or not they need the shield, but yeah, as far as DD go, there is no way they could even come close to soloing something as high level that a GLA can due to the shield.

Because they really don't generally reward you killing higher level mobs, It would still probably be faster to kill greenish-orange mobs, depending on the mob of course.

As much as I don't like saying it, the shield abilities seem a little skewed at the moment. I think they should nerf a couple abilities on the shield, but at the same time, make GLA simply take less damage per hit to even it out.

idk really, I eagerly await their decision about the new classes/advanced job system to see what they are going to change.

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See your face upon the clear water. How dirty! Come! Wash your face!
#46 Mar 24 2011 at 1:24 PM Rating: Decent
8 posts
Well, I don't think this is from another mmorpg but I have an entertaining if completely ludicrous idea...

Crafting is, well, it's not the reason I play the game. I play it to socialise with my friends in big parties. When I'm online I don't want to CRAFT! I want to have adventures!

So, what if you could get a crafting mini-game app for the iphone? *lol* Now, that 20 minute bus-ride to work every morning suddenly becomes more interesting.
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