Forum Settings
       
This Forum is Read Only

The reason slowly fixing the game is badFollow

#1 Mar 19 2011 at 5:11 AM Rating: Default
Avatar
***
2,045 posts
So Square are "fixing" 14 at a snails pace, the PS3 version could take literally years to be released. Many say this is fine, take thier time as the players will come when they make it "good".

The reason this is simply not the case is because FFXIV's engine is now done and static, it won't get massive updates for the same reason they would never do it to FFXI. So the basic engine they have will be the same engine they are using when the game is finally salvaged and presentable.

In this time more games will be released with better engines and overall stronger gameplay, one of the major appeals left to 14 is how it looks. Even now there is are amazing games on the horizon that will make FFXIV look dated.

Check out Tera and see how amazing it looks, and heck added to that look how much fun it looks to play. I dare you not to be impressed by the video of Tera, all the excitment I had that was built up for FFXIV has gone and this is my new gaming hope now. Game looks epic and will probably at launch blow anything Square can put together in this games in 1-2 years of messing around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD5bzHauVvo



Edited, Mar 19th 2011 7:12am by preludes
____________________________
BANNED
#2 Mar 19 2011 at 6:04 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
Avatar
****
4,475 posts
You'll have to get used to it like the rest of us. SE has historically taken forever to do what's needed, but most of the time when they finally do something, it's epic.
#3 Mar 19 2011 at 6:13 AM Rating: Good
**
697 posts
While that game looks awesome, its more "Apples and Oranges" than anything. TERA is more monster hunter, less WoW/FFXIV. I really like the emphasis on action combat, and looking for tells from the enemies, but that core element is what makes it a completely different experience from FFXIV, which is a more traditional MMO.

As for your point about slowly fixing the game, I agree, but at the same time if they just threw a bunch of new ideas and random content at us and it turned out to be bad, it would push away the last little bit of player base thats left. For example, they could potentially have just implemented a whole new combat system with auto-attack and a bunch of other changes without asking the playerbase what it thought, and it could have backfired, causing many players to quit.

S-E is in a real predicament because they have an MMO they've invested millions in, and expected it to be a cash cow for many years. But for whatever reason, be it corporate politics or poor decision making, they released it before even basic issues from the beta test were fixed. So now they have to tread lightly on a game with a smaller playerbase that plays primarily because the game is free to play, and want to make sure that its just right before re-releasing and charging people to play.

Random thought, What would people think of S-E keeping a free to play model and charging for expansion downloads? I personally hate free to play games with premium content, but for this game it seems like it could become a reality.
____________________________
FFXI: Odin - Merylstryfe Summoner Woo Hoo!


#4 Mar 19 2011 at 6:45 AM Rating: Decent
**
568 posts
Tera does look amazing.

The reason why it makes XIV look just meh compared to it has more variation in visual design of the backgrounds

http://cdn.tera-online.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/imageviewer/screenshots/Screenshot_%20%2816%29.jpg

I still like XIV's characters more but the fields in XIV look pretty bland even compared to XI because it has so many unique landmarks. XI also has it's own style of odd trees and plants everywhere. The grassy fields outside of LL could be found in any game really.

For visuals it's the design that can last the test of time if it's made well.
Areas in XI that I see for the first time still take my breath away if it's something unique and meaningful in the gameworld. Polygon counts and normal maps are pretty meaningless next to design.
#5 Mar 19 2011 at 6:48 AM Rating: Excellent
*
182 posts
How fast would you prefer them to fix it? They were releasing two patches a month. We could have had patch 1.16a and patch 1.17 if the earthquake didn't happen.
____________________________
?
#6 Mar 19 2011 at 7:08 AM Rating: Excellent
***
3,416 posts
Quote:
I still like XIV's characters more but the fields in XIV look pretty bland even compared to XI because it has so many unique landmarks.


XIV has just as many, they are simply buried beneath all the filler.

It would do the game justice if they made the areas more compact.

Too bad we're still missing 5 vanilla regions, and we probably won't see them before content has been implemented to make them matter. Whatever diversity there is, we won't see it before the remaining regions are implemented and the existing regions are changed. Fortunately the vanilla regions should be all already finished.

Lastly, you can make the world look bland but you can also take it too far. If all areas look perfect, it takes away from the over-all impression. This is a common problem with Korean MMO's, and especially the character models. They try too hard.

Still, currently TERA has better areas. They haven't gone too far with it.

XIV's superiority doesn't come from graphics though, they have a much better lore to build on. TERA's (The Exiled Realm of Arborea... really?) sounds like it's tackled on at the last second and very generic... this, too, very common to MMO's. While XIV's execution of building content based on the lore is lacking, if they can change that the game will have much stronger background for people to be more interested in. It's kinda pointless if there is a lot of content based on the lore if the lore is generic and worthless.

Lastly, it is true that XIV's improvements are coming at a snails pace so far, yet the reason for it is simple. When Tanaka was replaced for Yoshida, the development started from the scratch, and the team structure was probably modified as well as the update schedule. These are all great changes and considering most of the larger improvements take longer than few months to implement, we won't be seeing them for anytime soon yet. Maybe May. Good thing is that once ready, they'll come in a quick succession.

Edited, Mar 19th 2011 1:10pm by Hyanmen
____________________________
SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#7 Mar 19 2011 at 7:11 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
*
176 posts
I've only seen a bit of TERA, but **** the character animations look awesomely fluid compared to XIVs... squat...

MerylStryfe wrote:
While that game looks awesome, its more "Apples and Oranges" than anything. TERA is more monster hunter, less WoW/FFXIV. I really like the emphasis on action combat, and looking for tells from the enemies, but that core element is what makes it a completely different experience from FFXIV, which is a more traditional MMO.

Is it really? I'm sure there's a huge overlap in the target playerbase.
____________________________

TERA looks tasty...
#8 Mar 19 2011 at 7:12 AM Rating: Good
**
568 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
I still like XIV's characters more but the fields in XIV look pretty bland even compared to XI because it has so many unique landmarks.


XIV has just as many, they are simply buried beneath all the filler.

It would do the game justice if they made the areas more compact.

Too bad we're still missing 5 vanilla regions, and we probably won't see them before content has been implemented to make them matter. Whatever diversity there is, we won't see it before the remaining regions are implemented and the existing regions are changed. Fortunately the vanilla regions should be all already finished.

Lastly, you can make the world look bland but you can also take it too far. If all areas look perfect, it takes away from the over-all impression. This is a common problem with Korean MMO's, and especially the character models. They try too hard.

Still, currently TERA has better areas. They haven't gone too far with it.

XIV's superiority doesn't come from graphics though, they have a much better lore to build on. TERA's (The Exiled Realm of Arborea... really?) sounds like it's tackled on at the last second and very generic... this, too, very common to MMO's. While XIV's execution of building content based on the lore is lacking, if they can change that the game will have much stronger background for people to be more interested in. It's kinda pointless if there is a lot of content based on the lore if the lore is generic and worthless.



I'll get back to you when I see them, but having played since beta you'd think landmarks wouldn't be so hard to spot? Where did you read about these new areas? All I know is that there's one city to be added but that sounds interesting? Any sources? I really hope they hire better environment designers for them.
#9 Mar 19 2011 at 7:37 AM Rating: Decent
Avatar
*****
12,703 posts
Riniaru wrote:
I've only seen a bit of TERA, but **** the character animations look awesomely fluid compared to XIVs... squat...


If by fluid you mean overly exaggerated and blatantly trying to appeal to a certain demographics, yes.
____________________________

#10 Mar 19 2011 at 8:24 AM Rating: Good
***
3,416 posts
Quote:
I'll get back to you when I see them, but having played since beta you'd think landmarks wouldn't be so hard to spot? Where did you read about these new areas? All I know is that there's one city to be added but that sounds interesting? Any sources? I really hope they hire better environment designers for them.


There are 3-4 distinctive areas in The Black Shroud that look completely different from each other. In La Noscea there are beaches and other landmarks, but they are so few and far between that for the most part you are running past the same environments (filler). Thanalan also has 4-5 completely different environments, but the over-all savanna-like structure is almost everywhere since the region is so large.

The cities look good enough because they are compact. Were the same done to the existing regions while toning down the remaining copy paste they would be amazing in a realistical way.

We have yet to go to the beastmen regions, the dragon region or the Ala Mhigo region shown in the 'world map'. Dungeons in the existing regions have yet to be revealed. It's not the first time SE hasn't released areas because they weren't needed at the time, only now they don't have to have them on the disc since we can download so large amounts of data. We can't just .dat mine them like we did before.
____________________________
SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#11 Mar 19 2011 at 8:31 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
***
1,339 posts
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
Riniaru wrote:
I've only seen a bit of TERA, but **** the character animations look awesomely fluid compared to XIVs... squat...


If by fluid you mean overly exaggerated and blatantly trying to appeal to a certain demographics, yes.


I'll freely admit that FFXIV is pretty **** at the moment, but I'll be the first to admit that in terms of eye-candy the male models are pretty delicious. They're not too overly bulky like the majority of Western characters.
#12 Mar 19 2011 at 9:02 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
351 posts
preludes wrote:
The reason this is simply not the case is because FFXIV's engine is now done and static, it won't get massive updates for the same reason they would never do it to FFXI. So the basic engine they have will be the same engine they are using when the game is finally salvaged and presentable.


Well, they're not going to redo Crystal Tools, if that's what you mean. That's just crazy talk.

However, it sounds to me like almost nothing is off the table if you've been following Yoshida's notes. They are completely redoing the battle system and redoing the class system (to the extent they have "advanced classes" without wiping out the current progress of players). They may even get rid of physical levels entirely. They are going to address the copy-paste environments (#1 concern of Japanese players). There's an expansion on the way as well.

This may take some time, but it would almost certainly be less than two years in the making (I'd peg it conservatively around a year and a half but it may even be less than that). It's not going to take YEARS. They do have to make some money on this at some point, after all.

I can't blame you if you'd rather do something else than wait. But if they rushed this, it would fail. To make something good, they'll need to some time to create it, test it, and tweak it before selling the public on giving FFXIV a second chance.
#13 Mar 19 2011 at 9:29 AM Rating: Decent
***
3,416 posts
Quote:
Well, they're not going to redo Crystal Tools, if that's what you mean. That's just crazy talk.


Even "Crystal Tools" can be used in many ways. See: XIII vs. XIII vs. vs. XIV (cwhatididthere). Same engine, different approach in all three games.

While it is certain that the core engine won't change, they have already made steps to alter the existing engine (character collision removal) and will make them in the future (environment collision, jumping mechanics).
____________________________
SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#14 Mar 19 2011 at 12:23 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
180 posts
Quote:
Check out Tera and see how amazing it looks, and heck added to that look how much fun it looks to play. I dare you not to be impressed by the video of Tera, all the excitment I had that was built up for FFXIV has gone and this is my new gaming hope now. Game looks epic and will probably at launch blow anything Square can put together in this games in 1-2 years of messing around.


Hold on.. preludes?! You've had nothing but glowing reviews and praise for XIV in all your posts in Zam's XIV and XI general forums since the game came out. Now you're throwing that all away for Tera?!!

Smiley: oyvey

Now that I got my sarcasm out of the way:

With all the "XIV is dead" posts you've made in XIV and XI general, I honestly don't believe you have ever had any excitement for this game. I'd also like to see this "Tera is my new gaming hope" thread in the XI general forum, and see where that gets you.
____________________________
FFXI: PLD BST BRD RDM SAM PUP


#15 Mar 19 2011 at 12:31 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
1,536 posts
Its not getting "fixed at snail pace" its just that there are some things that take longer to adjust/create/implement than other things, so what we've been seeing so far are small fixes and additions but I'm pretty positive this game will have an almost complete overhaul before the end of the summer and will be prime for PS3 release by November - I doubt they can afford to run another year with it.
____________________________
MUTED
#16 Mar 19 2011 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
**
568 posts
If by 4 different zones in the black shroud you mean the underground bits then I must say this isn't really a "landmark" feature in the environment. LL scores no extra points for having a really bland looking beach. I haven't heard of SE talk of any plans for the areas appearing on the map so wise thing would be not to hold your breath for them.

I have a gut feeling that nothing of the current landscapes will be changed visually since it pretty much just doesn't happen in the videogame industry and I can see from the development side why that is. If I were asked to add more variety to the game areas at work I'd have to look at the resources and come to the conclusion that 4+1 zones sounds like more than 4+tweaks to the consumers. That +1 area could be marketed as an extra shiny freebie for players to come back when the ps3 port arrives. *puts away the Trump-clump-of-hair*

Don't get me the wrong way, I really do hope I'm wrong. Given the history of SE I just think it's extremely unlikely to happen within 5 years.
#17 Mar 19 2011 at 12:43 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
17 posts
It's a matter of opinion.

I don't mind the pace they've chosen to begin updates. They're doing everything in steps and are fixing the foundations of the game right now. If they don't take their time and mess up the foundation then it really will be game over. After they get all the basics down they've already said that they will begin working on "Content" that so many people have clamored for (And you know they still won't be happy with it) But when they can focus solely on the fluff of the game we'll probably see higher quality patches at the same pace as right now.

Also I doubt the PS3 version will take "years" to be released. I figure next year at the latest, end of this year if they get the foundations done by July (complete guessing, I really have no idea what the timeline would be)

@Tera because video is always the best indicator of how good a game will be.
____________________________
#18 Mar 19 2011 at 1:09 PM Rating: Good
***
3,416 posts
Quote:
If by 4 different zones in the black shroud you mean the underground bits then I must say this isn't really a "landmark" feature in the environment.


What do you even mean by a "landmark" in the environment? the Drogaroga's spine in meriphataud? XI wasn't exactly filled with these kind of landmarks either, to say the least. The environments were more varied however, something that is buried underneath the filler in the current XIV.. or in other words, its' like going through meriphataud mountains everytime you want to get to a different kind of an area.

I don't mean the underground dungeons. I actually excluded them.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_NTtzMykKgeU/TVjXfInkUHI/AAAAAAAAApQ/QLHN9ZHP1v0/s912/ffxivgame_2011_02_11_14_15_45_220.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_NTtzMykKgeU/TVjXhEwrAbI/AAAAAAAAApg/77wepNQ8BOc/s912/ffxivgame_2011_02_11_14_17_59_181.jpg

A weird village type place with a giant mushroom in it:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_NTtzMykKgeU/TVjXWe8Et9I/AAAAAAAAAo4/MjudTvuzgDU/s912/ffxivgame_2011_02_11_14_12_59_904.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_NTtzMykKgeU/TVjWgmN5KxI/AAAAAAAAAoE/H7Vtcd5ToS4/s912/ffxivgame_2011_02_11_14_08_26_495.jpg

Quite some variety, but so much walking around to get to them. If they made the region 1/4th the size it is now, it would be a lot more interesting place. Didn't post the images of the lakes in NW since I'm sure everyone has been there.

Ul'dah has these places:

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/62df07eb96887a2103bee221b902dcf6.jpg

http://stfcc.org/ffxiv/i/ffxivgame%202010-09-26%2015-40-44-78.png

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_NTtzMykKgeU/TVjWf-qYCRI/AAAAAAAAAn4/ToLRKt2WGFs/s912/ffxivgame_2011_02_04_20_49_34_350.jpg

But, again, so much running through filler to get to one of these places, not to mention that they are sometimes too small in scope.

Quote:
I have a gut feeling that nothing of the current landscapes will be changed visually


Yet the director has said they will be changed. Gut feeling of a guy who puts a negative spin on everything or the director's word... both can be full of crap, but I think I know which one to go with for now.

Quote:
Given the history of SE I just think it's extremely unlikely to happen within 5 years.
.

"Given the history of SE" I could name a million things that were extremely unlikely to happen, yet did happen anyway. Official forums, implementing jump, changing the director, making the game free for who knows how long.. essentially doing what the players demanded from them no matter how much it costed them. Given the history of SE that doesn't sound like something they would do now does it?

Edited, Mar 19th 2011 7:22pm by Hyanmen
____________________________
SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#19 Mar 19 2011 at 1:27 PM Rating: Default
Viertel wrote:
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
Riniaru wrote:
I've only seen a bit of TERA, but **** the character animations look awesomely fluid compared to XIVs... squat...


If by fluid you mean overly exaggerated and blatantly trying to appeal to a certain demographics, yes.


I'll freely admit that FFXIV is pretty **** at the moment, but I'll be the first to admit that in terms of eye-candy the male models are pretty delicious. They're not too overly bulky like the majority of Western characters.
I wouldn't call it **** as it is now. Objectively, it's more like oatmeal. I guess it's enough to get by with, but would you eat it for every meal when you had a choice? **** you just wouldn't touch.
____________________________
Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

Almalieque wrote:
I know what a glory hole is, but I wasn't sure what the business part was in reference to.

My Anime List
#20 Mar 19 2011 at 3:24 PM Rating: Default
**
568 posts
I'll say it again I wish they changed the area's but nothing of the sort has been announced nor do I see it likely to happen. I think if we've learned anything from the past 6 months it's that expect big things to be promised with very little to back it up. I'll see it if it's there.

So far it is what it is.

I admit that you are right about me being extremely skeptical after the side-quests were released. After that the battle-system overhaul that has been in the pipeline for ages has me a lot less excited than when it was announced. I still hope for the best but if it's like the just as much hyped sp changes, battle effect changes, quest-system, anima tweaks, pt-size reduction, and spell tweaks... well one can get excited only so many times to see them under-deliver every time.

Like many have said I think the "snails pace" is a pretty good description how the game has changed considering the state it still is in. Just as a comparison XI has changed a whole lot more during the same time with lvl cap raised and the Abyssea areas being released along with truly game-changing storage mechanics and game-wide exp changes and new skills and spells.

You have high hopes of Yoshida I get it and I admire your optimism. I'm not trying to change your mind about it I just don't feel the same way given the way this game has evolved.
#21 Mar 19 2011 at 3:36 PM Rating: Good
***
3,416 posts
Quote:
I'll say it again I wish they changed the area's but nothing of the sort has been announced nor do I see it likely to happen.


This is the third time (if it was you on the official forums) I've told you: it has been announced. It wasn't translated but Yoshida himself has said that they will work on the areas little by little.

Quote:
well one can get excited only so many times to see them under-deliver every time.


That sounds like an attitude problem more than anything. Expect too much (perfection from the get-go), be disappointed. That's how it goes. Under deliver or not, that can only be seen in the end result. Whatever happens in between is a work in progress, and should be considered as such.

Quote:
Like many have said I think the "snails pace" is a pretty good description how the game has changed considering the state it still is in.


And for all of this there is an explanation that, while may not give a reason for optimism, does not give a reason for pessimism either. Yoshida hasn't done anything to warrant being pessimistic yet. It hasn't been perfect, yet the direction has always been towards better rather than worse. That's what's important at this point. And the greater the change, the less likely it is that you will get something perfect from the get-go. Everything has went according to what is realistic to expect from the team so far.

Edited, Mar 19th 2011 9:44pm by Hyanmen
____________________________
SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#22 Mar 19 2011 at 3:44 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
I'm not ready to abandon XIV or XI but I admit that Tera looks good. It should surprise no one that I'd like to see what the UI looks like, but assuming the UI isn't a carbon copy of nearly every other game out there, I'd be willing to give it a shot at some point.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#24 Mar 19 2011 at 4:18 PM Rating: Decent
*
69 posts
#25 Mar 19 2011 at 5:07 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
108 posts


A lot of these new MMO's have really great looking environments. However, they almost always have awful looking character models as well as animations. FFXIV really excels in this area.

I have to admit though, I'm a bit jealous of ArcheAge's use of light effects and shadows.
#26 Mar 20 2011 at 2:53 PM Rating: Good
Sage
***
2,869 posts
I don't care about Tera, but I think the comparison is a good point - to most MMO players, FFXIV's one big positive is the nice graphics. That's becoming less of an advantage as more and more games come along that compare favorably to FFXIV's visuals (and with better optimization to not have the rather steep system requirements of XIV).

As someone who was there on day 1 for XIV and found the game severely lacking, I've been coming back to check in on updates... and I'm not very impressed. It's still a slow process that is leading to incremental change, but this game needs more than incremental change. Some of the wishful thinking of "once the November (December, January, March...) update comes, the game will be SO MUCH BETTER" is proving pretty false to me. By the time XIV is slowly dragged up closer to respectability in game design, it's no longer going to have that graphical advantage.
____________________________
Anza: Titan 2004-2011 / Capuchin: Phoenix 2011-???
#27 Mar 20 2011 at 6:11 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
71 posts
This game's been out for 6 months and I still can't alt-tab out of it. For many even a little feature like that is game breaking. With my setup I don't like playing in window mode and full screen mode I could at least deal with as long as I can tab out.

That's just one example of things that have been completely overlooked since release. people are really running out of ways to defend the state of the game.
#28 Mar 20 2011 at 6:12 PM Rating: Good
Isn't there a windower for FFXIV? I recall one of my friends using something like that in the open beta so he could alt+tab out.
____________________________

I started this character at the CE launch, and played for about 2 months. Haven't touched it since.
#29 Mar 20 2011 at 6:25 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
71 posts
mattkujata wrote:
Isn't there a windower for FFXIV? I recall one of my friends using something like that in the open beta so he could alt+tab out.


There was but in SE's infinite wisdom they decided to issue a cease and desist to the developers of the windower. Guess they don't like other people fixing their broken game.
#30 Mar 20 2011 at 6:46 PM Rating: Good
thorrandTB wrote:

There was but in SE's infinite wisdom they decided to issue a cease and desist to the developers of the windower.


Wow, they're pulling out all the stops. I use windowed mode personally. I have a dual monitor setup so it's nice to be able to move the game back and fourth as needed. I guess I'll have no choice but to use windowed mode on my laptop since I can't seem to play PC games without using the internet at the same time.
____________________________

I started this character at the CE launch, and played for about 2 months. Haven't touched it since.
#31 Mar 20 2011 at 11:51 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
351 posts
thorrandTB wrote:
mattkujata wrote:
Isn't there a windower for FFXIV? I recall one of my friends using something like that in the open beta so he could alt+tab out.


There was but in SE's infinite wisdom they decided to issue a cease and desist to the developers of the windower. Guess they don't like other people fixing their broken game.


mattkujata wrote:
thorrandTB wrote:

There was but in SE's infinite wisdom they decided to issue a cease and desist to the developers of the windower.


Wow, they're pulling out all the stops. I use windowed mode personally. I have a dual monitor setup so it's nice to be able to move the game back and fourth as needed. I guess I'll have no choice but to use windowed mode on my laptop since I can't seem to play PC games without using the internet at the same time.


There was quite a community built around 11's Windower, and that's out in 14. There was a community built around 11's Auction House, and that's out in 14. Heck, there was even a community built around no official forums in 11, and that's out in 14. :/
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 20 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (20)