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#152 Apr 06 2011 at 3:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Saying that a game is x% complete means nothing with MMO games. By nature, they're never really complete until they go offline. Tanaka and Komoto even disagreed in that interview about how complete and how ready the game was for release...


That has nothing to do with what I was saying, because I'm not referencing completion. My point was, as someone else clarified, they said that the alpha was about 20% of the game (and later indicated that the remaining 80% was content being tested in-house). Even if you take that statement with the utmost skepticism, you would expect a great deal more content, if not features, at release. I wouldn't even say that with the zones and leves that there was 5x more content at release, myself.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#153 Apr 07 2011 at 5:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
Quote:
Saying that a game is x% complete means nothing with MMO games. By nature, they're never really complete until they go offline. Tanaka and Komoto even disagreed in that interview about how complete and how ready the game was for release...


That has nothing to do with what I was saying, because I'm not referencing completion. My point was, as someone else clarified, they said that the alpha was about 20% of the game (and later indicated that the remaining 80% was content being tested in-house). Even if you take that statement with the utmost skepticism, you would expect a great deal more content, if not features, at release. I wouldn't even say that with the zones and leves that there was 5x more content at release, myself.


This information was already in my post as a direct quote from the interview. Apparently neither you or Kuja bothered to read it. To paraphrase, Komoto said 'the alpha testing was less than 10% of the game being available to testers'. Immediately following, Tanaka said 'In terms of total progression of the game, a conservative estimate would be 65%'.

This has everything to do with what you were saying. Follow along please. You said that SE "gave players every reason to believe that there would be a content zerg at release". Open beta tests usually contain the majority of the content that players will experience at launch. People in the beta forums clung to their 'this is just a beta, massive patch incoming' argument, but it turned out that FFXIV was no different. I'm not sure about you, but I'm a 'believe it when I see it' kind of person. Nothing at all about the changes and additions I saw from day one of alpha up until the end of open beta made me feel secure about release being anywhere close to completed(launch ready).

The last of the beta update notes posted by SE had vague statements about working on server lag, menu lag, UI and controls and everything else that was obviously bugged. With the exception of increasing the amount of leves and mobs, everything being addressed was mechanics and not content. You really believed that they could attach so much of the games content in a massive patch just before launch?

I'm not sure I believe you were even a part of the testing. I hesitate to call you a liar because I don't like to name call, but the alternative is a sucker and that really isn't all that nice either. You choose.



____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#154 Apr 07 2011 at 6:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Quote:
Saying that a game is x% complete means nothing with MMO games. By nature, they're never really complete until they go offline. Tanaka and Komoto even disagreed in that interview about how complete and how ready the game was for release...


That has nothing to do with what I was saying, because I'm not referencing completion. My point was, as someone else clarified, they said that the alpha was about 20% of the game (and later indicated that the remaining 80% was content being tested in-house). Even if you take that statement with the utmost skepticism, you would expect a great deal more content, if not features, at release. I wouldn't even say that with the zones and leves that there was 5x more content at release, myself.


This information was already in my post as a direct quote from the interview. Apparently neither you or Kuja bothered to read it. To paraphrase, Komoto said 'the alpha testing was less than 10% of the game being available to testers'. Immediately following, Tanaka said 'In terms of total progression of the game, a conservative estimate would be 65%'.

This has everything to do with what you were saying. Follow along please. You said that SE "gave players every reason to believe that there would be a content zerg at release". Open beta tests usually contain the majority of the content that players will experience at launch. People in the beta forums clung to their 'this is just a beta, massive patch incoming' argument, but it turned out that FFXIV was no different. I'm not sure about you, but I'm a 'believe it when I see it' kind of person. Nothing at all about the changes and additions I saw from day one of alpha up until the end of open beta made me feel secure about release being anywhere close to completed(launch ready).

The last of the beta update notes posted by SE had vague statements about working on server lag, menu lag, UI and controls and everything else that was obviously bugged. With the exception of increasing the amount of leves and mobs, everything being addressed was mechanics and not content. You really believed that they could attach so much of the games content in a massive patch just before launch?

I'm not sure I believe you were even a part of the testing. I hesitate to call you a liar because I don't like to name call, but the alternative is a sucker and that really isn't all that nice either. You choose.



Yeah, I don't usually do this, but you posted my name so here it is. I'm going to cite the interview as posted on ZAM, because thats the site we're both on, so its reasonable that we'd both have followed the news on this site. Heres the interview you misquoted. http://ffxiv.zam.com/story.html?story=22214

Important part
Quote:
- Is the general framework of the world complete?

Tanaka: The basics are pretty much done. Like I mentioned, it's mostly cosmetic changes that are left. (laughs) System-related things like the user interface, or additional quest material are still being worked on. If we consider how FFXIV has been in development for 5 years, we're probably in the final 10% of its development cycle, which accounts for 50% of the game.

Komoto: With the start of the alpha test, we start to look at character growth, expanding the world, quests and more. Looking at the alpha as it is now, there's less than 10% of the game available.

Tanaka: As for the progression of development, a conservative estimate would be 65%. (laughs)


Unlike your quote, tanaka never said the game was 65% complete, he said the development progression was about 65%. Thats in house stuff hes talking about.

I'm not saying SE promised people more content and didn't deliver. They didn't say "hey open beta's pretty much a release build either. Again, I'm willing to admit my bias, I never thought a company that had the reputation SE once had to release the MMO equivalent to a $15 shovelware game.
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#155 Apr 07 2011 at 12:13 PM Rating: Good
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The quote from my original post was this:

Famitsu interview with Tanaka and Komoto wrote:
Komoto: With the start of the alpha test, we start to look at character growth, expanding the world, quests and more. Looking at the alpha as it is now, there's less than 10% of the game available.

Tanaka: As for the progression of development, a conservative estimate would be 65%. (laughs)


Go look on page 3 and check. Don't worry, I'll wait. You back? Now from your 'Important part' of your post above...

ZAM interview with Tanaka and Komoto wrote:
Komoto: With the start of the alpha test, we start to look at character growth, expanding the world, quests and more. Looking at the alpha as it is now, there's less than 10% of the game available.

Tanaka: As for the progression of development, a conservative estimate would be 65%. (laughs)


KujaKoF wrote:
Unlike your quote, tanaka never said the game was 65% complete, he said the development progression was about 65%. Thats in house stuff hes talking about.

**** looks the same to me. Anyway, how the **** do you take 'development of progression' to mean anything else other than 65% of release content? Please explain.

Quote:
I'm not saying SE promised people more content and didn't deliver.


To be honest with you, I only used what you said because Kachi referenced it...

You wrote:
they said alpha was about 20% of the game. Which I guess fits a loose definition, as alpha was only one of 5 zones released, but it was still about 70% of the game, gameplay wise.


Kachi wrote:
My point was, as someone else clarified, they said that the alpha was about 20% of the game (and later indicated that the remaining 80% was content being tested in-house).


According to both of the interviews we linked, you were both wrong. Is this correct? Alpha was less than 10% and the devs were working with about 65%? No one likes to be wrong. Why did you go to such great lengths to prove that you were? I didn't misquote, you misread.

KujaKoF wrote:
I'm not saying SE promised people more content and didn't deliver. They didn't say "hey open beta's pretty much a release build either. Again, I'm willing to admit my bias, I never thought a company that had the reputation SE once had to release the MMO equivalent to a $15 shovelware game.


The only thing I questioned was your numbers which are obviously wrong. You took the time to find and link the article, but you would have seen your error if you'd read it. I never tried to pin anything else to your post other than the numbers being incorrect.

My point is that anyone who watched FFXIV progress from alpha through the end of open beta should only blame themselves for placing faith in SE that they could pull it together and all of a sudden make the game playable AND enjoyable. If this was you, then you're just a sucker.

If you didn't get to see how borked the testing and feedback phases were and only played open beta, then you got there just in time to catch the roar of the fanboys chanting about some miraculous patch saving the day. Anyone who was realistic and objective had been chased away by this point so their opinion wasn't voiced nearly as much as earlier in testing. The players new to open beta probably got caught up in the moment and wanted to see SE succeed so badly that they didn't heed the warnings of the few(me and a few of the other skeptics who hadn't already kissed it goodbye). Those people are excused.






Edited, Apr 7th 2011 2:16pm by FilthMcNasty
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#156 Apr 07 2011 at 1:33 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:

No, they gave a percentage of the amount of content that was in the alpha/beta (a very low amount, no more than 20%), and stated explicitly in emails to the testers what their role was in the testing. In a later Q&A, they explained that they had in-house testers for the remaining content.


It was 10% though, right? And at that point in beta I think we only had 20 levels and one starting area available, which meant that only about 25% of the supposed game was unaccounted for, assuming levels 30-50 went as quickly as 1-20. If you assumed they would go slower (usually a good bet in level based MMOs) then the "missing" content was never really hinted at in the first place.

Edited, Apr 7th 2011 3:38pm by KarlHungis
#157 Apr 07 2011 at 3:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
The quote from my original post was this:

Famitsu interview with Tanaka and Komoto wrote:
Komoto: With the start of the alpha test, we start to look at character growth, expanding the world, quests and more. Looking at the alpha as it is now, there's less than 10% of the game available.

Tanaka: As for the progression of development, a conservative estimate would be 65%. (laughs)


Go look on page 3 and check. Don't worry, I'll wait. You back? Now from your 'Important part' of your post above...

ZAM interview with Tanaka and Komoto wrote:
Komoto: With the start of the alpha test, we start to look at character growth, expanding the world, quests and more. Looking at the alpha as it is now, there's less than 10% of the game available.

Tanaka: As for the progression of development, a conservative estimate would be 65%. (laughs)


KujaKoF wrote:
Unlike your quote, tanaka never said the game was 65% complete, he said the development progression was about 65%. Thats in house stuff hes talking about.

**** looks the same to me. Anyway, how the **** do you take 'development of progression' to mean anything else other than 65% of release content? Please explain.

Quote:
I'm not saying SE promised people more content and didn't deliver.


To be honest with you, I only used what you said because Kachi referenced it...

You wrote:
they said alpha was about 20% of the game. Which I guess fits a loose definition, as alpha was only one of 5 zones released, but it was still about 70% of the game, gameplay wise.


Kachi wrote:
My point was, as someone else clarified, they said that the alpha was about 20% of the game (and later indicated that the remaining 80% was content being tested in-house).


According to both of the interviews we linked, you were both wrong. Is this correct? Alpha was less than 10% and the devs were working with about 65%? No one likes to be wrong. Why did you go to such great lengths to prove that you were? I didn't misquote, you misread.

KujaKoF wrote:
I'm not saying SE promised people more content and didn't deliver. They didn't say "hey open beta's pretty much a release build either. Again, I'm willing to admit my bias, I never thought a company that had the reputation SE once had to release the MMO equivalent to a $15 shovelware game.


The only thing I questioned was your numbers which are obviously wrong. You took the time to find and link the article, but you would have seen your error if you'd read it. I never tried to pin anything else to your post other than the numbers being incorrect.

My point is that anyone who watched FFXIV progress from alpha through the end of open beta should only blame themselves for placing faith in SE that they could pull it together and all of a sudden make the game playable AND enjoyable. If this was you, then you're just a sucker.

If you didn't get to see how borked the testing and feedback phases were and only played open beta, then you got there just in time to catch the roar of the fanboys chanting about some miraculous patch saving the day. Anyone who was realistic and objective had been chased away by this point so their opinion wasn't voiced nearly as much as earlier in testing. The players new to open beta probably got caught up in the moment and wanted to see SE succeed so badly that they didn't heed the warnings of the few(me and a few of the other skeptics who hadn't already kissed it goodbye). Those people are excused.

Edited, Apr 7th 2011 2:16pm by FilthMcNasty


Ok honestly I have no idea what point you're trying to make anymore. Back in august alpha was 10% according to a dev, and they were 65% through developing the game according to tanaka, I think we both agree there.

What this has to do with the open beta being the same as release, I don't know anymore. Frankly I was only annoyed with you because I had thought you changed the term 'development' to 'game' in your quote, but its possible (probable) we have different translations.

At the end of the day, I'll concede to you, they never promised an immediate patch in September. I do also feel that what they were selling did likely believe people to believe there was more. When they described their classes, and we saw what we had, I thought maybe they're holding something back. When they described how important leves were, and that they were a fun and interesting mechanic, I thought ok maybe we're gonna see something more interesting here.

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#158 Apr 07 2011 at 4:42 PM Rating: Good
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My point was that SE never hinted at nor made a statement at any point during testing that would suggest that a landslide of content would be added just prior to release. They developed this game for over 5 years and only 5 months before release they stated that it was 65% complete. It was obvious to anyone testing that the issues that they were having with server stability, UI and mouse lag, horrible battle system and the loads of other issues that plagued testing would set them back far further than their intended release date.

Quote:
What this has to do with the open beta being the same as release, I don't know anymore. Frankly I was only annoyed with you because I had thought you changed the term 'development' to 'game' in your quote, but its possible (probable) we have different translations.

Most if not all games remain nearly exactly the same on release as they were in the last beta phase with the exception being spit and polish. Because of this, I questioned Kachi's statement about SE supposedly adding what would be most of the content in the game after the fact. As I've said, if you had played since closed alpha then you'd know that in terms of content, SE only added a few classes and professions, a few zones and a bit of polish to the character creation. The only major change was the overhaul of the battle system. If Komoto had said that closed alpha was 60-70% of what you could expect a launch, this statement would have been much more accurate.

As for the quote, if you go back and look at the post...

FilthMcNasty wrote:
To paraphrase, Komoto said 'the alpha testing was less than 10% of the game being available to testers'. Immediately following, Tanaka said 'In terms of total progression of the game, a conservative estimate would be 65%'.

Paraphrase. I didn't really change anything. I interpreted 'progression of development' to mean 'this is how close we are to having a game ready to launch'. I really can't see how anyone would read this any other way. They're developing a game. Obviously they have a goal if they can give a conservative estimation of how close they are to completing it. If 100% means something else besides ready for launch to you, please explain.

I really wish I had copied the feedback section of the testers website. Many of the issues that still remain in game to this day were discussed nearly a year ago. SE thanked us profusely for feedback that they did absolutely nothing with. Too busy fixing technical bugs to be bothered creating a game players might actually enjoy. It seems they've got their act straight now with Yoshi, the official forums, Dev Q&A and all of the polls and feedback. Seems a bit too late though.




____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#159 Apr 07 2011 at 5:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
My point was that SE never hinted at nor made a statement at any point during testing that would suggest that a landslide of content would be added just prior to release. They developed this game for over 5 years and only 5 months before release they stated that it was 65% complete. It was obvious to anyone testing that the issues that they were having with server stability, UI and mouse lag, horrible battle system and the loads of other issues that plagued testing would set them back far further than their intended release date.

Quote:
What this has to do with the open beta being the same as release, I don't know anymore. Frankly I was only annoyed with you because I had thought you changed the term 'development' to 'game' in your quote, but its possible (probable) we have different translations.

Most if not all games remain nearly exactly the same on release as they were in the last beta phase with the exception being spit and polish. Because of this, I questioned Kachi's statement about SE supposedly adding what would be most of the content in the game after the fact. As I've said, if you had played since closed alpha then you'd know that in terms of content, SE only added a few classes and professions, a few zones and a bit of polish to the character creation. The only major change was the overhaul of the battle system. If Komoto had said that closed alpha was 60-70% of what you could expect a launch, this statement would have been much more accurate.

As for the quote, if you go back and look at the post...

FilthMcNasty wrote:
To paraphrase, Komoto said 'the alpha testing was less than 10% of the game being available to testers'. Immediately following, Tanaka said 'In terms of total progression of the game, a conservative estimate would be 65%'.

Paraphrase. I didn't really change anything. I interpreted 'progression of development' to mean 'this is how close we are to having a game ready to launch'. I really can't see how anyone would read this any other way. They're developing a game. Obviously they have a goal if they can give a conservative estimation of how close they are to completing it. If 100% means something else besides ready for launch to you, please explain.

I really wish I had copied the feedback section of the testers website. Many of the issues that still remain in game to this day were discussed nearly a year ago. SE thanked us profusely for feedback that they did absolutely nothing with. Too busy fixing technical bugs to be bothered creating a game players might actually enjoy. It seems they've got their act straight now with Yoshi, the official forums, Dev Q&A and all of the polls and feedback. Seems a bit too late though.


I see what you're saying now. Again, I misunderstood your quote/'paraphrase' because I thought you were implying that tanaka was saying the game was 65% complete (which is why I assumed you switched development to game).

In the end, We've havent been on the same page, or even arguing the same thing this entire time. I have no idea why you accused me of not reading something in your post that I at no point mentioned or referenced.
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#160 Apr 07 2011 at 6:12 PM Rating: Good
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KujaKoF wrote:
I see what you're saying now. Again, I misunderstood your quote/'paraphrase' because I thought you were implying that tanaka was saying the game was 65% complete (which is why I assumed you switched development to game).

I was arguing my point to Kachi. The only reason you're involved is because Kachi referred to a post. I used your name being that you are the author of said post. The only issue I had with anything you said was that the numbers you posted were incorrect. Also, I was implying that Tanaka was saying the game was 65% complete. To me, that's exactly what he said for the reason I stated in the previous post.

KujaKoF wrote:
I have no idea why you accused me of not reading something in your post that I at no point mentioned or referenced.


I accused you of not reading my post because you linked the exact interview I paraphrased. It just seemed redundant and pointless. I think the only thing we disagree about is the meaning of Tanaka's statement. I'd still like to know exactly what you think he meant by it, because to me it translates to 'at this point the game is 65% developed, 100% being ready for launch'(read: complete).




Edited, Apr 7th 2011 8:43pm by FilthMcNasty
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#161 Apr 07 2011 at 8:23 PM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
I see what you're saying now. Again, I misunderstood your quote/'paraphrase' because I thought you were implying that tanaka was saying the game was 65% complete (which is why I assumed you switched development to game).

I was arguing my point to Kachi. The only reason you're involved is because Kachi referred to a post. I used your name being that you are the author of said post. The only issue I had with anything you said was that the numbers you posted were incorrect. Also, I was implying that Tanaka was saying the game was 65% complete. To me, that's exactly what he said for the reason I stated in the previous post.

KujaKoF wrote:
I have no idea why you accused me of not reading something in your post that I at no point mentioned or referenced.


I accused you of not reading my post because you linked the exact interview I paraphrased. It just seemed redundant and pointless. I think the only thing we disagree about is the meaning of Tanaka's statement. I'd still like to know exactly what you think he meant by it, because to me it translates to 'at this point the game is 65% developed, 100% being ready for launch'(read: complete).

Edited, Apr 7th 2011 8:43pm by FilthMcNasty


No, I agree with your meaning right now. However, being that you brought me up, and I've only been talking about how complete beta was, and that you changed the world development to game, I mistook your intentions as saying that the alpha version was like 65% of the game.

Furthermore, I know I used the numbers 20% (which I'd seen referenced and unchallenged enough to believe that it had been quoted at sometime, possibly after your interview took place), and 70% is eh, close enough in my book. Honestly your post was so far back I didn't even recall reading it, and it cited an interview that I consider pretty much irrelevant.
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#162 Apr 07 2011 at 8:24 PM Rating: Good
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Ok, but again, you're not even talking about what I'm talking about. Their progress in the development cycle is a completely moot point. My -original- statement was that the amount of content in the early testing was "a very low number, no more than 20%" (paraphrased for laziness). That they said it was only 10% actually strengthens my point-- that they were announcing that there would be much more content at release, irrespective of the development timeline, because they were already testing the content in house.

The status of the open beta is also irrelevant, because we were talking about the game prior to the open beta.

To spell this out again: My statement was that people weren't just thinking wishfully that there would be a lot more content than was available BEFORE the open beta. SE -SAID- there would be a lot more content, i.e., 90% of the content was unavailable to testers and was being tested in house, instead. This is further emphasized by the feedback they solicited in the testing-- they obviously didn't really want our feedback on the content, and that's not what we were testing. My only point was that people were being completely reasonable to expect a lot more content in the release version than in the test versions BEFORE the open beta. They were not being starry-eyed, optimistic white knights. They were just drawing a very reasonable conclusion from the information they were given.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#163 Apr 07 2011 at 8:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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KujaKoF wrote:
Heres the interview you misquoted. http://ffxiv.zam.com/story.html?story=22214

I had totally forgotten just how much I felt they came across as pricks in parts of that interview. Little condescending pricks and look at how it turned out.
#164 Apr 07 2011 at 9:42 PM Rating: Good
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MrTalos wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
Heres the interview you misquoted. http://ffxiv.zam.com/story.html?story=22214

I had totally forgotten just how much I felt they came across as pricks in parts of that interview. Little condescending pricks and look at how it turned out.

That's been my opinion since 11, and yes, I won't deny I smiled inside when I heard they sacked Tanaka.

Sundi 'I don't know' is next.
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#165 Apr 07 2011 at 10:07 PM Rating: Decent
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There is so much conflict in your statements that I don't know where to begin. I guess the beginning is as good a place as any.

Kachi wrote:
Their progress in the development cycle is a completely moot point... That they said it was only 10% actually strengthens my point-- that they were announcing that there would be much more content at release, irrespective of the development timeline, because they were already testing the content in house.


Ok. Well the statement was about the alpha test and it was made in late April. The game released 5 months later in late September. Why would the development progress be moot when it's such a large indicator of why people shouldn't have expected content. The events that happened during the testing process tell the story of exactly why the content was not delivered. Lets review.

It all started with the delay of the testing. It was over a month from the scheduled launch date before the alpha even started. **** SE, foreshadow much? Not sure if you remember, but there were many testers who were unable to even get the client to download properly through the ****** p2p downloader. Needless to say, the end of that weeks testing was canceled and a patch was released after another delay. More downloader issues. Eventually people gave up on the p2p client and started torrenting it. Who cares if it violates the NDA, I'm gonna get my fix amirite? Another week cut short and more delays... do I really need to keep going? It was nearly 2 months past the alpha launch date before a full week of testing was completed... shortly followed by a tentative release date for launch. After seeing the date set for launch, there was a deafening alarm sounding in my head.

Kachi wrote:
The status of the open beta is also irrelevant, because we were talking about the game prior to the open beta.

Anything before launch is relevant to the failed release of this MMO, especially open beta because it's where most of the rah rah came from. It's especially relevant because it was the only experience that most people had with the game. You couldn't gauge how much progress the game had made unless you were selected to closed alpha testing.

I want you to do something for me. Pretend that you were not in the alpha. Knowing that open beta is close to 100% completed, think about the statement Komoto made about <10%. Remember the content that was available in open beta and subtract 90% of it. If you had never experienced alpha, this is what you would have been the 'reasonable conclusion from the information'. This would probably be the title screen and character selection only. Actually experiencing the tests makes it easier to draw a more reasonable conclusion.





____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#166 Apr 12 2011 at 7:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Erm, except I was in the alpha, and if we were led to believe that there would be 10x more content than was available in the closed alpha, then that would have led one to the reasonable conclusion that there would be a content zerg. I'm not sure what is difficult about this for you to understand. Feeling argumentative.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#167 Apr 13 2011 at 5:33 PM Rating: Excellent
Yeah I hate to say but the beta didn't exactly have 10x the content of the alpha. If they claimed that the release version of the game would have 10x at that point in the alpha, they were still off by about 80%. the beta having twice the content of the alpha is still giving them a lot of credit and some very arbitrary definitions of content.
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