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#52 Mar 24 2011 at 6:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Heartflame wrote:

I still can't believe that the people who made one of the most memorable and fun online games are having such a horrible time doing it again.


The only reason they're having a hard time is because they decided originally to make it as different from XI as possible, which XI was already made to be an actual FF game. Even FMO was fun because they actually built it around FM...FFXIV was just sidestepping everything XI did, which the new management realized wasn't a good idea.
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#53 Mar 24 2011 at 7:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mistress Theonehio wrote:
Heartflame wrote:

I still can't believe that the people who made one of the most memorable and fun online games are having such a horrible time doing it again.


The only reason they're having a hard time is because they decided originally to make it as different from XI as possible, which XI was already made to be an actual FF game. Even FMO was fun because they actually built it around FM...FFXIV was just sidestepping everything XI did, which the new management realized wasn't a good idea.


That's something I often joked about on here or in-game with LS friends. Something that may sound great to us, probably isn't going to match up with whatever the heck SE has in mind = D

A "Be careful what you wish for, 'cause you just might get it" situation. I was one who was sold on the idea that it would be a whole lot different than XI. I definitely wanted that, but what I had in mind expected those differences to be better than XI. Instead it seems like the things that were kept(races & such) were a negative & the new things(for the most part) were also a negative. The result was something that you can jump into and quickly accomplish a whole lot(especially in the beginning), but the fun & life are missing so you're left thinking "why bother?" Too much watering down & streamlining in the wrong areas I think...

Edit-
That picture of your 1/1 kote is evil and should be removed from this site...
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#54 Mar 24 2011 at 7:10 PM Rating: Good
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I still play, and will continue to do so tomorrow. What I've noticed is since the servers have been down and I've had nothing to do but go back to WoW, my first time since Cataclysm came out, is that they have so many quests available. Granted most of them are grab six flame residues, yada yada yada, but they grant reputation. I wouldn't want my final fantasy to grant me anything more such as xp, and in WoW there is no such thing as a grind party which is another reason i love ff, but some options to give the incentive to explore besides getting access to a new aetheryte crystal would be great.
#55 Mar 24 2011 at 7:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Theo, that's exactly what I was getting at.

I understand people saying they don't want a sequel to FFXI. But this is a Final Fantasy title. FFXI was the original "online Final Fantasy" game. It would make sense that at least some of the characteristics, (pertaining to making a Final Fantasy game), would be in the game. I was hoping that the way they would make it different was to make it even better, and not the "innovative" bust that we have now.

Just a thought... if they stopped worrying about being different, and just worried about making an online Final Fantasy game, (as the title Final Fantasy XIV Online suggests), then we might be in a better situation.
#56 Mar 24 2011 at 9:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Heartflame wrote:
This. I've already made tons of posts about this. But this....

I keep playing because I'm hoping that SE will recognize their mistakes for what they are. All of the problems that came out of this game were from how "innovative" it was. I use that term, because that's what they thought they were doing. And to a point, maybe they were. But all they did was just remove everything that was cool about their original MMO, and added the god-awful crafting system. Everything they advertised was about making the game interesting. But they failed. They just need to admit that this system doesn't work. Then they can try to correct the problems by analyzing what specifically works and what doesn't.

To be honest, the main reason I even still play is for my friends. If I had to pay monthly for this, I'd leave before they even finished saying the word "subscription."

I still can't believe that the people who made one of the most memorable and fun online games are having such a horrible time doing it again.

Alright. Gonna tackle this one at the risk of...tackling. I ain't as young as I used to be.

The other night, you made a fairly long post in response to one of mine, and though I didn't want you to think I didn't read it and consider what you had said, I didn't respond for a variety of reasons. But I'll address that here and now.

In my opinion, skill-based though it may be, it's not that I don't welcome a return to a class-based environment. But I think people clamoring for it might be deluding themselves. As someone else said, a situation of "be careful what you wish for...".

It sounds good in theory. And seems even better in retrospect. However, the simple truth of the matter is that while XI had class-based game-play most of those classes were excluded from normal pickup parties. Especially at higher levels.

For example, DRG, prior to the much-vaunted 2-handed update. PUP (Anytime). SMN had to go and do what more than a few considered an exploit (though not SE) and introduce smn-burns in korroloka tunnel to hit 75. BLM were forced to group together and nuke jellies in Ifrit's Couldron. And while a fair few people might consider XIV to be Crafter Fantasy XIV, for a far longer period of time XI was considered SAM-Fantasy XI.

I guess, in the end, as much as I wish SE could manage to balance out classes, they don't seem to have a good track record, and personally I would rather they give us the tools to balance our "classes" ourselves. But again, this stems from the fact that I don't want to spend endless hours nuking jellies alone. Or some other obsurdity.

It isn't that I disagree with what you say, it's more that I don't believe SE has the ability to balance the classes to which you aspire with any degree of even-handedness. And they've proved that point.

Edit: Vowels are important. I have learned this. >.<

Edited, Mar 24th 2011 11:50pm by Wintersage
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#57 Mar 24 2011 at 10:02 PM Rating: Default
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Mistress Theonehio wrote:
The only reason they're having a hard time is because they decided originally to make it as different from XI as possible, which XI was already made to be an actual FF game.


Sounds like someone never made it past the character creator.
#58 Mar 24 2011 at 10:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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ForceOfMeh wrote:
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
The only reason they're having a hard time is because they decided originally to make it as different from XI as possible, which XI was already made to be an actual FF game.


Sounds like someone never made it past the character creator.


Smiley: dubious
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#59 Mar 24 2011 at 11:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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To put it plainly, I left because the game sucked. Not in the sense that it really sucked, but imagine buying a sweet sports car online and then when it's delivered (work with me here) and finding out that it uses levers and pulleys to steer, is powered by the tears of babies and the instruction manual is written in ancient Hebrew..with really crappy notes in english (or whatever your native language is) in the margins that are barely legible. The car might be the most badass car on the planet, but you will probably never know because you can't freakin drive it without wanting to punch a baby (for fuel of course).

I bought it on launch day, started playing and found myself wanting to cry after about 2 hours of trying to level and find a party after meeting my game imposed solo quest quota for the day, picking up a crafting profession only to find out that it was **** near impossible to find where to buy materials or sell your goods, there was zero guidance from the game regarding NPC/ shop placement and item shops that sell the weapons you want.....and all of this while fighting the UI (it cons IT++) and absolutely ri-godam-diculous input lag.

I also have a much more intellectual post regarding a similar issue (or at least less crazy from sleep depravation) titled "Improvements since release?" ...feel free to take a look at that if you want...but I find my crazy babble to be entertaining, or at least it is when I write it...
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#60 Mar 25 2011 at 12:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Wintersage wrote:
Heartflame wrote:
This. I've already made tons of posts about this. But this....

I keep playing because I'm hoping that SE will recognize their mistakes for what they are. All of the problems that came out of this game were from how "innovative" it was. I use that term, because that's what they thought they were doing. And to a point, maybe they were. But all they did was just remove everything that was cool about their original MMO, and added the god-awful crafting system. Everything they advertised was about making the game interesting. But they failed. They just need to admit that this system doesn't work. Then they can try to correct the problems by analyzing what specifically works and what doesn't.

To be honest, the main reason I even still play is for my friends. If I had to pay monthly for this, I'd leave before they even finished saying the word "subscription."

I still can't believe that the people who made one of the most memorable and fun online games are having such a horrible time doing it again.

Alright. Gonna tackle this one at the risk of...tackling. I ain't as young as I used to be.

The other night, you made a fairly long post in response to one of mine, and though I didn't want you to think I didn't read it and consider what you had said, I didn't respond for a variety of reasons. But I'll address that here and now.

In my opinion, skill-based though it may be, it's not that I don't welcome a return to a class-based environment. But I think people clamoring for it might be deluding themselves. As someone else said, a situation of "be careful what you wish for...".

It sounds good in theory. And seems even better in retrospect. However, the simple truth of the matter is that while XI had class-based game-play most of those classes were excluded from normal pickup parties. Especially at higher levels.

For example, DRG, prior to the much-vaunted 2-handed update. PUP (Anytime). SMN had to go and do what more than a few considered an exploit (though not SE) and introduce smn-burns in korroloka tunnel to hit 75. BLM were forced to group together and nuke jellies in Ifrit's Couldron. And while a fair few people might consider XIV to be Crafter Fantasy XIV, for a far longer period of time XI was considered SAM-Fantasy XI.

I guess, in the end, as much as I wish SE could manage to balance out classes, they don't seem to have a good track record, and personally I would rather they give us the tools to balance our "classes" ourselves. But again, this stems from the fact that I don't want to spend endless hours nuking jellies alone. Or some other obsurdity.

It isn't that I disagree with what you say, it's more that I don't believe SE has the ability to balance the classes to which you aspire with any degree of even-handedness. And they've proved that point.

Edit: Vowels are important. I have learned this. >.<

Edited, Mar 24th 2011 11:50pm by Wintersage


As a XI and a XIV player it seems to me that this is just mostly a perception you have. I've never done any of the stuff you mentioned that the classes are "only" doing.

Here's what we know:

Every FF title not just XI that has clear classes have more strategic combat. Those that don't VIII, XII, XIV and XIII have messy battle-systems that make the characters blend together a bit. (Although VIII's cast manages to be spectacular outside of battle.)

Also the whole Crystal Chronicles series is a good example of this too.
#61 Mar 25 2011 at 12:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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seiferdincht wrote:

As a XI and a XIV player it seems to me that this is just mostly a perception you have. I've never done any of the stuff you mentioned that the classes are "only" doing.

Then you haven't been lurking here for long enough. And you didn't manage to level any of the classes I mentioned, either. At least, not with any ease or sense of fulfillment.
seiferdincht wrote:
Every FF title not just XI that has clear classes have more strategic combat.

Wow. Ok, so you wish to to compare single-player games to MMO's? And that signifies how?

I mean, as long as we're dreaming about comparing cross-genre games I could wish that PUG had Kratos-like abilities. And how much would that rock? But it wouldn't be relevent would it?

As far as XIV is concerned, SE (and by extension, us) have only one MMO to draw examples of past behavior and balancing from. Citing previous single-player FF (or other) games as examples for an MMO balance in XIV fails hard without substantiation.

Sorry, but just saying that I must be misguided and that the XI forums aren't chock-full of threads going years back (though mostly dated at this point no doubt) about the very points you used to refute my post is a very poor excuse at a verbal riposte.

Try harder.

Edit: Disclaimer: This applied before the level cap in XI raised above 75. After that, for all I know the balances were all perfectly adjusted. I had retired by then and claim no (firsthand) knowledge of what when on afterwards.

Edited, Mar 25th 2011 2:51am by Wintersage
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#62 Mar 25 2011 at 12:46 AM Rating: Good
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nothing, at least not one thing, nothing was major enough to make me go uhg why am i logging in. It was like a thousand little tiny insubstantial papercuts. and what will it take for me to come back and try it again? Thats an easy question wit h an equally easy answer, if Rift fails i will do like i always do and go back to other mmo's and give them another shot.


Yet I am sure for the folks who read this and ask themselves why am i even on these boards? I am a ff fan boy i love FF everythind and anything.I buy it if it has FF on it someone could take a crap if it landed in the toilet spelling out Final Fantasy I would consider owning it. Which is why the fail of the game upset me totally, ff can not be bad but it is so i still visit and hope maybe something draws me back in
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#63 Mar 25 2011 at 1:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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I agree with Winter here, to deny the luldrg-loldrk-LFG-forever era, the ranger fantasy xi era, the tears of the summoners forced to play WHM would be ridiculous.

Freedom>>>>>>>>>all, in other words, make the abilities system flexible, then let everyone play however they want, as long as it's balanced.

Wintersage wrote:
seiferdincht wrote:

As a XI and a XIV player it seems to me that this is just mostly a perception you have. I've never done any of the stuff you mentioned that the classes are "only" doing.

Then you haven't been lurking here for long enough. And you didn't manage to level any of the classes I mentioned, either. At least, not with any ease or sense of fulfillment.
seiferdincht wrote:
Every FF title not just XI that has clear classes have more strategic combat.

Wow. Ok, so you wish to to compare single-player games to MMO's? And that signifies how?

I mean, as long as we're dreaming about comparing cross-genre games I could wish that PUG had Kratos-like abilities. And how much would that rock? But it wouldn't be relevent would it?

As far as XIV is concerned, SE (and by extension, us) have only one MMO to draw examples of past behavior and balancing from. Citing previous single-player FF (or other) games as examples for an MMO balance in XIV fails hard without substantiation.

Sorry, but just saying that I must be misguided and that the XI forums aren't chock-full of threads going years back (though mostly dated at this point no doubt) about the very points you used to refute my post is a very poor excuse at a verbal riposte.

Try harder.

Edit: Disclaimer: This applied before the level cap in XI raised above 75. After that, for all I know the balances were all perfectly adjusted. I had retired by then and claim no (firsthand) knowledge of what when on afterwards.

Edited, Mar 25th 2011 2:51am by Wintersage



Edited, Mar 25th 2011 2:24am by Ilean
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#64 Mar 25 2011 at 1:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Wintersage wrote:
Heartflame wrote:
This. I've already made tons of posts about this. But this....

I keep playing because I'm hoping that SE will recognize their mistakes for what they are. All of the problems that came out of this game were from how "innovative" it was. I use that term, because that's what they thought they were doing. And to a point, maybe they were. But all they did was just remove everything that was cool about their original MMO, and added the god-awful crafting system. Everything they advertised was about making the game interesting. But they failed. They just need to admit that this system doesn't work. Then they can try to correct the problems by analyzing what specifically works and what doesn't.

To be honest, the main reason I even still play is for my friends. If I had to pay monthly for this, I'd leave before they even finished saying the word "subscription."

I still can't believe that the people who made one of the most memorable and fun online games are having such a horrible time doing it again.

Alright. Gonna tackle this one at the risk of...tackling. I ain't as young as I used to be.

The other night, you made a fairly long post in response to one of mine, and though I didn't want you to think I didn't read it and consider what you had said, I didn't respond for a variety of reasons. But I'll address that here and now.

In my opinion, skill-based though it may be, it's not that I don't welcome a return to a class-based environment. But I think people clamoring for it might be deluding themselves. As someone else said, a situation of "be careful what you wish for...".

It sounds good in theory. And seems even better in retrospect. However, the simple truth of the matter is that while XI had class-based game-play most of those classes were excluded from normal pickup parties. Especially at higher levels.

For example, DRG, prior to the much-vaunted 2-handed update. PUP (Anytime). SMN had to go and do what more than a few considered an exploit (though not SE) and introduce smn-burns in korroloka tunnel to hit 75. BLM were forced to group together and nuke jellies in Ifrit's Couldron. And while a fair few people might consider XIV to be Crafter Fantasy XIV, for a far longer period of time XI was considered SAM-Fantasy XI.

I guess, in the end, as much as I wish SE could manage to balance out classes, they don't seem to have a good track record, and personally I would rather they give us the tools to balance our "classes" ourselves. But again, this stems from the fact that I don't want to spend endless hours nuking jellies alone. Or some other obsurdity.

It isn't that I disagree with what you say, it's more that I don't believe SE has the ability to balance the classes to which you aspire with any degree of even-handedness. And they've proved that point.

Edit: Vowels are important. I have learned this. >.<

Edited, Mar 24th 2011 11:50pm by Wintersage


You know, Wintersage? I can now see why you would be apprehensive.

It's true. No one can deny that SE has a certain knack for making some classes better at certain situations than others. And SE makes parties pay for not having those classes. I remember very clearly the trouble I went through to get the Soboro Sukehiro for my Samurai, (back when Ranger was all the rage, thank you). Black Mages were absolutely necessary to beat the NM, but it only dropped a Samurai sword.

It is true that SE has some problems when it comes to balance. I wouldn't even dream of arguing that. I remember when I convinced a friend of mine to play FFXI with me, and he had his heart set on being a I'm a moron. He didn't last too long, as the game was still very time-consuming, and he had a part-time job to put him through college. But the entire time, I kept trying to sway him into being something more useful, because I knew that he would be waiting a long, long time for a group.

This goes back to the impression that I got from the way SE presented the game in their promotions for it. They made it sound like each class could solo their way to end-game, and that they would be able to group to complete certain tasks. That sounded like it would be great. I was ready to pick up my White Mage hammer and Banish / Cure-kill some Bogys. (Anyone else annoyed they can't heal undead to kill them? That was the coolest thing about being a white mage!) But instead of giving us defined/refined classes that could solo, they mixed them all together and changed their names. I feel like SE cheated when they made that decision.

On top of that, instead of making characters that add something to a party, they just made it so individual characters can perform the basics of a party's need. A Gladiator can tank, heal themselves, and still dish out damage, (physical or magical), without ever needing to think about it. The end result tends to be making characters able to perform every role so that we can effectively do things ourselves, instead of making the classes capable of standing alone.


So I understand your skepticism. Being that I leveled Summoner to 60 as a Big Mana Pool/whm, (solo'd in the down time. Man was that fun! A little slow, though.) And working on my side project of perfecting the art of Pup/dnc just before I retired. (Yes! It would be the most flamboyant class combination ever!) I would hate to see certain classes not used at all because of their lack of utility, or because they get out-shined by other classes. As with anything in life, there will be some styles that are more popular/main-stream than others. (Who didn't think Samurai AF was cool looking?) But I would still hope that the game would be welcoming to every class that was created to play in it.

I agree that it is unlikely that SE knows how to balance the game in such a way that every class would be welcomed in every event. And it is a valid concern, and a probability that there might be some classes that perform certain roles better than others. (Remember Ranger?) However, I still feel that a class-based system is far superior to what we have now. As it stands, people think of it as building blocks to create a unique character. It's really more of a checklist to see what jobs we need to level until we are our own party. I feel like this completely defeats the point of an MMO. This sounds like something that might be neat in a single-player game, (FFXII), but doesn't work well in an online setting.

But thank you, Wintersage, for explaining this skepticism. I completely agree that it was a shame that some jobs weren't as useful as others. I always felt a little guilty when my tank would ask who to invite, and I would point out that some jobs did more damage than others. FFXI was a very elitist game, and I think that FFXIV's advertisement of being for the casual player is what sold so many CE copies at launch. People liked the FFXI style, but wanted it to be more accessible to regular players.

I say "thank you," because I was beginning to think that you were just being a stubborn ol'e.... Well, you get the idea. :3

I'm sorry that some of my posts as of late have been more ranting. But with SE opening the lodestone, I can't help but feel like we owe it to them to give our criticism. SE is already notorious for being a little... "biased" against North American players. With all the posts that I keep seeing, it makes me feel like SE will just chuckle and be reassured that English speaking players have silly thoughts that shouldn't be taken seriously, (as some of the threads there are exactly that). I've always enjoyed the Final Fantasy series, and I adored FFXI for what it was. (Though I am not above saying that it had its flaws. Time consumption and accessibility being the main ones). I have very high hopes for the game. You can imagine why I get frustrated when I see people talking about talent trees and why we shouldn't want the game to be changed, because it's fine the way it is. /facepalm.

So thanks for the tackle. I liked it. I hope my counter-tackle was gentle enough for you~
#65 Mar 25 2011 at 1:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Heartflame wrote:

I agree that it is unlikely that SE knows how to balance the game in such a way that every class would be welcomed in every event. And it is a valid concern, and a probability that there might be some classes that perform certain roles better than others. (Remember Ranger?) However, I still feel that a class-based system is far superior to what we have now. As it stands, people think of it as building blocks to create a unique character. It's really more of a checklist to see what jobs we need to level until we are our own party. I feel like this completely defeats the point of an MMO. This sounds like something that might be neat in a single-player game, (FFXII), but doesn't work well in an online setting.

I think we have a fair chance for the simple reason that Yoshi seems to acknowledge other MMORPGs instead of pretending they don't exist, the fact that so many games have gotten balance much better than XI and that he seems aware of them gives me hope...

Heartflame wrote:
So thanks for the tackle. I liked it. I hope my counter-tackle was gentle enough for you~

OK, rent-a-room you two...
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#66 Mar 25 2011 at 2:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Why is Ilean always the first person to respond to me? xD
#67 Mar 25 2011 at 2:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Well the servers are down, it's 2 AM and I'm bored as ****. F5ing the boards to **** is great for stress...
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#68 Mar 25 2011 at 2:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Mistress Theonehio wrote:
ForceOfMeh wrote:
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
The only reason they're having a hard time is because they decided originally to make it as different from XI as possible, which XI was already made to be an actual FF game.


Sounds like someone never made it past the character creator.


Smiley: dubious


Who loves ya? :D
#69 Mar 25 2011 at 2:46 AM Rating: Good
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The dealbreaker for me was the boring gameplay, but the straw that fractured my will to play was the simple limiting of the opening quest(s) to your starting nation. In a game with so little content, this struck me as the first of many willfully awful design decisions by SE.

Now, I had been playing since the alpha, and hadn't even been playing by the open beta. By the time the game was released, I had no real motivation to play it. In fact I logged in for all of an hour for the first and last time almost a week after release, because in my mind the most pressing things that were broken hadn't been fixed-- hadn't even been touched.
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#70 Mar 25 2011 at 2:54 AM Rating: Decent
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No I haven't leveled every XI job to the cap XD and perhaps my progress hasn't been super fast power-leveling. That is all true.

But, and this is a big but; it hasn't negatively affected my enjoyment of the game. Quite the opposite I like, no--love the freedom XI gives me.

As for stats SE has managed to balance the combat and skills in single player games as well as in XI using the same setup since Final Fantasy in the 80s The fact that XI is an MMO naturally makes it harder to balance but basically it's built on the same rule-set as the other games are.

Is there really that big of a difference between how BLMs and WHMs support each other in a pt in XI or III?

And no I don't think PUG should be a Kratos-like class SE has a bad track record with 3rd person action game design. =)

(Besides GoW is built on the game design of Onimusha and Devil May Cry according to the lead designer of the 1st game Jaffe. It's off-topic but it just annoys me how everyone and their mom thinks GoW invented the genre. It's called "recentism". Hearing this usually ****** off most American gamers for some reason, so sorry in advance.)

Just as a side note for everyone who likes XI I warmly suggest playing the remake of III on the DS. The job system will make you feel right at home and the music is excellent.

#71 Mar 25 2011 at 3:00 AM Rating: Good
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The gameplay was a big part of it. It became a little too repetitive and my MRD didn't feel different than when I played other melees. I was a skill chain ***** in FFXI so th fact that BRs would always lock up in certain zones really got annoying fast as well. The lack of content didn't really bother me since it would eventually get added but I'm not going to stick around leveling different classes when the gameplay isn't fun. Maybe I'll come back if they make the classes different from each other more and fix the game play. For now it's going to sit on my HD while I play some other PC games I've been meaning to finish.
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#72 Mar 25 2011 at 3:02 AM Rating: Excellent
Terrible economics. I enjoy crafting and being a businessman. That's a huge deal for me in online games. There was so much chance for it too, crafting, lots and lots of materials, different jobs built around crafts that were supposedly given as much attention as the combat oriented classes. It sounded freaking perfect didn't it???

But no. The economy was not to be had, because they forgot one central thing that works great in MMO games. A way to find the stinking items people are selling! >.< What a terribad idea they had. It was insulting. Infuriating. And the rest of the game really didn't make up for it. I can go hit things. oh ok... All the other problems were bad, but the failure to create an economy was the thing that killed it for me.

Oh that and cooking. I wanted to be a cook! I would fall asleep imagining my black dragon cooking empire. But no, even now cooking is basically worthless and nobody uses food.

----


Well, its been a while, they made a much better economic system by putting in that 'able to find what people are selling' linchpin, but I've been busy doing other things. School finals, done now. Rift, DA II. I beat DA II, was a good game. Rift was kind of neat at the start, but its really too much like WoW. I was so tired of playing WoW, and Rift is so similar I felt like I've been playing it for years, no thanks. So maybe I'll go back to FFXIV. Not sure. I'll log in tomorrow probably and see how I feel. Might try to join a guild that will take me even if I might not be around.
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#73 Mar 25 2011 at 3:26 AM Rating: Decent
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actually been thinking and the deal breaker to me was as a pugilist iwas a mar with fist weapons that broke ever 5 minutes, all i could do was mash stuff( which in ff11 thats all you could od but you did it with someone else) ever heard the phrase " misery loves company"?


The classes were not classes they were renamed versions of one another, the evasion of pug was and probably still is broken the parry worked great for mar but who the **** cared? all i was a pug with an axe, i did not want na axe i wanted ot punch things to oblivion, then there was the fact of horrible sp gain promoting spamming the weakest attack you had add on that the worst grouping system i have ever seen, but main it was the generic classes.


very very generic
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#74 Mar 25 2011 at 3:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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The biggest thing for me is the classes... or more specifically, the combat classes.

I remember back when FFXIV was still being developed, and I was ridiculously psyched for the game, I would log on to the official site, "Oh! They revealed more classes! Maybe one of them is Black Ma.... oh... more crafting classes..." I remember going "WTF" out loud when I saw "Botanist" before a clear BLM-type job.

Maybe I'm just too used to FFXI, but as an NA player, the least amount of job options I've ever had was 15, and it's been 20 for a long time now. Although, having only seven options seems crazy to me, that by itself might not have been so bad, if the classes were diverse enough, and didn't run together as much as they do. It almost feels like you have 7 options, but all of them do the same thing.

I really want to like this game, but I just can't find a way to enjoy it, none of the jobs appeal to me, especially with there being no THF or NIN-type job. No real evasive or tactical playstyle jobs, and with no auto-attack, a quick-swinging job isn't even feasible.

Edited, Mar 25th 2011 5:01am by KodoReturns
#75 Mar 25 2011 at 9:55 AM Rating: Decent
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The deal breaker for me was during the break looking back on how I was doing things like leveling and etc. And realizing how boring it was. The only thing that kept me from leaving was the people I was playing with. I still think the game has lots of potential however long it does last I just don't wanna wait around anymore wasting time. In the end looking back I had the most fun crafting.
#76 Mar 25 2011 at 9:09 PM Rating: Good
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Heartflame wrote:
You know, Wintersage? I can now see why you would be apprehensive.

Yeah. As I've said before, it's not that I disagree with anything that you've said. I agree with you...I just don't have that kind've faith in SE to think they can pull it off as well in XIV as a game like XI, where it was the goal the entire time it was being developed.
Heartflame wrote:
On top of that, instead of making characters that add something to a party, they just made it so individual characters can perform the basics of a party's need. A Gladiator can tank, heal themselves, and still dish out damage, (physical or magical), without ever needing to think about it. The end result tends to be making characters able to perform every role so that we can effectively do things ourselves, instead of making the classes capable of standing alone.

This is definitely a valid concern. But the surprise is how accurate your description is. In most games, there is a stark difference between a generalist and a specialist that would seem to be mostly missing from XIV.
Heartflame wrote:
But thank you, Wintersage, for explaining this skepticism. I completely agree that it was a shame that some jobs weren't as useful as others. I always felt a little guilty when my tank would ask who to invite, and I would point out that some jobs did more damage than others. FFXI was a very elitist game, and I think that FFXIV's advertisement of being for the casual player is what sold so many CE copies at launch. People liked the FFXI style, but wanted it to be more accessible to regular players.

It's been my experience that MMO players tend to be elitist by nature. And for good reason. Those who put in the hours have the best shinies, those who know their roles best gain the reputation on a server as being "teh man", etc. I'm not saying that catering to a casual crowd is bad, mind you, but without things for the elitist as well they would seem to have effectively given the finger to the majority of MMO players.
Heartflame wrote:
I say "thank you," because I was beginning to think that you were just being a stubborn ol'e.... Well, you get the idea. :3

That would be a very apt description of me. :D However, I am no troll. Not where XIV is concerned. I simply care to much about the game's success. And you made very good points. In rereading by the light of day, I did come off a bit harsh and for that I apologize. It's just that there's been many many people on here posting about how they just should've made XI-2...and I'm not quite sure that would've been the way to go. Admittedly, XIV apparently wasn't either.
Heartflame wrote:
So thanks for the tackle. I liked it. I hope my counter-tackle was gentle enough for you~

My pleasure. It's refreshing to have a decent back-and-forth with someone who has concrete ideas and isn't all about personal attacks and whatnot.
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#77 Mar 26 2011 at 3:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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The game just has no soul. It feels dead in so many ways. FFXI had a soul. It was (and is in someways) a living, breathing, world that made you feel a part of it. FFXI and WoW are the only games since EQ that felt that way to me. I felt like I was just wandering around a barren, unfinished landscape to no end. In fact, I was. It really is a bummer too because FFXIV's potential still perplexes me even now that I've gone back to WoW. I'm enjoying myself and I love the game but some part of me still wishes that FFXIV could have taken me away to a new world and create new friendships. I really hope things turn around for the game eventually but I think it's fundamentally too screwed up to appeal to me at this point unless they start over and try again. I just hope they can keep it around long enough so that the current devoted players who still enjoy it don't lose their pastime.

The real deal breaker though? The "content" patch of "sometime after the beginning of February".
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#78 Mar 26 2011 at 7:59 AM Rating: Good
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Deal breaker for me was just how boring everything was, I've never played an MMO which was as totally un-awe-inspiring as this one. I played 14 for I think 2-3 weeks and hated every moment of it after the initial first 2 hours, this is the only game I continually forced myself to play thinking maybe it will get better, it didn't.

Every single thing annoyed me about it, the ping ping SFX, the FRIGGING HORRIBLE MAP THAT MADE ME WANT TO THROW THE MONITOR OUT THE WINDOW, the boring and totally uninspiring world, the 2nd class music, the control system, the menus, the stupid mob placement, the buying/selling stuff garbage, the way all the races animated the same and had no character, the crappy crafting system, the lack of a community, the boring monsters, the job system being just a weapon swap away(yet it being akin to finding the holy grail to find another weapon), the low player numbers, there being nothing to do except guild leaves, talking of which.. boring guild leaves which were boring from the start. If I played it much longer I would of lost the will to live, I can honestly say FFXIV is the only game I've played that you could not even pay me to play...I hated it that much. I guess the more you liked FFXI the more angry you felt about them making the next MMO this cheaply/horribly.

Edited, Mar 26th 2011 10:02am by preludes
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#79 Mar 26 2011 at 12:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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I know a lot of people disagree... But I feel like they put way too much emphasis on crafting in the game, so much in fact that it affected the fun factor of other areas of the game, like the story missions.

And yet despite being mind-numblingly grindy, in the end I had more fun crafting than leveling any of my battle classes. Shows how weak I find the classes and the armoury/battle system.
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#80 Mar 27 2011 at 1:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wintersage, I wouldn't say I have faith in SE. To be honest, their games have been getting worse and worse over the years. I hate to open a can of worms, but... FFXIII. Enough said.

I realize that most of the things I say tend to lean toward a "re-make XI" stereotype. So thank you for actually putting in the time to read my brick-wall posts.

I think the reason I'm so adamant about it is because many of the posts, (particularly at lode stone), are lacking the articulation and coherent thought process that is needed for constructive criticism. Far too many people are just putting up two or three sentence posts, and they don't explain why they feel the way they do. Obviously, SE can't just scrap the whole project and start from the ground up. I think I might have more respect for them if they did, but Yoshi-P was handed a broken game and all SE said was, "Fix it." There are so many unnecessary bells and whistles on this thing that it would actually be better if they just had the discs bronzed/framed with a little memorial plaque saying, "What Not To Do."

Do I think things are ever going to be perfect? No. Of course not. It would be silly to think that any one game can be perfect. There will always be room for improvement, and that's a good thing. It gives the devs something to work at.

Do I think the game will survive? Well, that completely depends on what is done with it. Yoshi-P hinted at a Class over-haul. Or at least the idea of adding in the traditional jobs. Anyway he does this, it is going to have to change the Action Point system in some way. We can't have Dark Knight's that cast Cure 3 and wear a shield. I think he understands this. I like Yoshi-P for the fact that he also likes to play MMOs. What I think will be difficult is he has to change the game at its very core. He has to go back and undo the thought process behind the original team, and completely correct the massive failures that their ideas turned out to be. It's a difficult task. And the people kicking and screaming that things are fine are just delusional. I'm pretty sure they would play anything as long as it looked pretty, or they didn't have to play with other people, ever. If the game was really fine, we wouldn't have free subscriptions right now.

I'm worried that one of a few things might happen:

1) Either Yoshi-P will do an over-haul, and it won't be enough. Players won't return, and the game will never lift off, because he failed to fix the core problems that came in the design intent.

2) Or Yoshi-P will make good on his word, and the game will function properly. Classes will be well defined, and there will be reasons to group together. A healer will heal, a tank will tank, and DD will do their thing. It would be everything that it needed at launch, but it will have taken so long that all the people who initially came from FFXI to go to FFXIV will no longer be interested. Meaning that the crazies that want to be able to be the "all-around" (can tank/heal/dd/buff/nuke as one static build), will be furious that their solo-only MMO was hindered. They'll have their nose bent out of joint and go back to playing single player games, as a sub will be added. And the game could very well fail.

3) My biggest fear of all.... The game will be fixed. Those whiny people will realize that they were crying over nothing, and deal with it. People from FFXI will say, "Finally! How long did it take you guys to figure it out?" and they'll re-join. Everything will be great, and I'll look forward to playing it... only to have RL obligations that prevent me from being able to play after they finally fix the **** thing! >_<


I don't know what's going to happen.

I want the game to do well. And I completely understand that Yoshi-P is in a tight situation. He has a "finished product" that he has to keep up and running while reverse engineering it and implementing new -(old if you consider FFXI already has most of these features that are actually good for a game to have)- features to make the game worth playing.

It's kind of like open-heart surgery. Gotta keep things running while picking parts out. All we can do is be patient, and let him do his thing, one step at a time.

I'm just hoping he finishes in a timely manner, or the game could very well die.


Bigger question: Given SE's over all drop in performance, (through multiple games, not just the Final Fantasy series), do you think SE will figure it out? They used to be well regarded as making the best RPG games. But every time they try to be "creative" they end up ******** up. This is just their last in a long line of disappointments. So I'm wondering if the whole company will get it's $#!+ together....
#81 Mar 27 2011 at 3:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
..So what was the deal-breaker? And what will entice you to get back to logging in?


The decision to keep playing gaining levels,making gil,so that i would be at an advantageous position for when the game got really good.Became outweighed with the simple fact that i was just not having any fun.You can only craft for so long before you either want to shoot yourself in the head or shoot someone else anything to make the mundane action stop.I literally had to watch netflix while playing to keep myself entertained,i mean shouldn't that be the games job.


I root for Final Fantasy i really do i have fond memories of the entire series.I check back here periodically hoping they release something that peaks my interest until then ill just keep myself busy with other games for my gaming fix.
#82 Mar 27 2011 at 4:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Heartflame wrote:
Wintersage, I wouldn't say I have faith in SE. To be honest, their games have been getting worse and worse over the years. ... FFXIII. Enough said.


I don't believe there is enough said. FFXIII wasn't the hit that FFVII was, but it was one of the top selling Final Fantasy games of all time, and it didn't do too badly in reviews either (83 out of 100 on Metacritic for the native PS3). They could always do better, but it wasn't horrible to the point where you could just say "Enough said," like it was an obvious stinker... like you could say about FFXIV which thoroughly and indisputably bombed.

I'm not saying you have to like FFXIII, I'm just saying I need a better explanation of what you didn't like, because it isn't clear to me just what that might be or what they could have done better. And if there's one thing I know you can do, it's expound on what you're thinking :P

Quote:
Obviously, SE can't just scrap the whole project and start from the ground up. I think I might have more respect for them if they did, but Yoshi-P was handed a broken game and all SE said was, "Fix it." There are so many unnecessary bells and whistles on this thing that it would actually be better if they just had the discs bronzed/framed with a little memorial plaque saying, "What Not To Do."


Two things on this:

1) I don't think development is completely to blame. SE is a very large business, and they certainly have the ability (and the mandate) to perform the necessary due diligence and market research before tossing an MMO into a highly competitive field. Their marketing department ought to have had the proper sense to know the necessary completion level and functionality for a game to be launched against the Almighty WoW. Tanaka may share part of the blame for this oversight, but there's no way he could be the only one.

2) I think that not only does Yoshi-P have broad discretion in remaking much of FFXIV, he intends to make some seriously sweeping changes (battle, classes, and zones are all known to be up for an overhaul).

Quote:
Bigger question: Given SE's over all drop in performance, (through multiple games, not just the Final Fantasy series), do you think SE will figure it out? They used to be well regarded as making the best RPG games. But every time they try to be "creative" they end up ******** up. This is just their last in a long line of disappointments. So I'm wondering if the whole company will get it's $#!+ together....


JRPGs have been in decline for a long time. Not only is Japan faced with a shrinking population, but classic Fight - Magic - Item menu driven gaming is getting old and tired. Japan's RPG industry has to get more creative and appeal to a larger, international audience. Or die.

One thing I think SE (usually) does well in their flagship series is offering a good mix of innovation while also appealing to the familiar. Not every iteration is going to appeal perfectly to everyone. Show me an FF title and I'll dig up a litany of complaints against it.

Where FFXIV specifically went terribly wrong wasn't so much that they tried something new, but the basics weren't as smoothed out and completed as the well-oiled machine it needed to be. Rather than looking forward to content updates and minor tweaks, we're looking at a complete overhaul. It's definitely a terrible place to start from.
#83 Mar 27 2011 at 5:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Nothing broke the deal for me.. I always enjoyed playing this game (except when it crashed).. maybe because I'm more of a solo player..
Yeah.. I know.. a lonely player in a MMORPG is kinda paradoxical.. but for me it works like life.. I'm used to being alone but I like to know that there is people out there who I can communicate and play with..

Edited, Mar 27th 2011 7:41pm by KaineGestalt
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#84 Mar 27 2011 at 6:24 PM Rating: Good
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KaineGestalt wrote:
Nothing broke the deal for me.. I always enjoyed playing this game (except when it crashed).. maybe because I'm more of a solo player..
Yeah.. I know.. a lonely player in a MMORPG is kinda paradoxical.. but for me it works like life.. I'm used to being alone but I like to know that there is people out there who I can communicate and play with..

Edited, Mar 27th 2011 7:41pm by KaineGestalt


Heh, don't feel alone. The genre has changed a lot in 10 years, and MMOs that want to be successful should cater to people who want to do a variety of activities solo.
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#85 Mar 27 2011 at 11:31 PM Rating: Decent
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I get tired of going to the leve counter, teleporting to the crystal, doing some Necrologos or whatever crap 3 times then repeating it forever.. I want the game to be good, but it isn't right now. I came back last month and pushed to physical 44 and got a bunch of jobs up, its a LOT better now, but already I can't bring myself to play again.
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#86 Mar 28 2011 at 1:58 AM Rating: Good
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I was patient for a really long time. I kept playing in spite of the flaws, and went through the weird, annoying periods of trial and error, and little by little, the momentum that I had built up, the excitement over the possibility of another ffxi like experience started to fade. Without that momentum, I lost all interest. I admit that the game is not finished yet, but even if it is finished in the future, having already burned myself out, I don't know if the game will still have the appeal it had when I first started it. Also I will probably have other things going on, having found new projects or whatever to fill the gap left by FFXIV, and won't be able to abandon them in order to make time for FF again.

It is really regrettable, because I REALLY wanted to get into this game.
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#87 Mar 28 2011 at 4:23 AM Rating: Good
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tldr, I should not be trying to find a reason to play the game, I should be looking forward to my next chance to log back into it.

The deal is not yet broken. The breaker for me will be if SE charges me for a monthly subscription without fixing the game. As far as I am concerned the game is broken, and by fixing I would like the following changes:

1. The current classless system. When I first read about it I was a little excited to see how it would work, it does not. The end state of the system as it currently stands is clear, every player level maxed on all jobs, with the exact same skills that parsed to be the best all set. There is no specialization at all. Scrapping the current system and going back to “jobs” where you cannot change on the spot is the only way I see to correct this.

2. Combat. Reinstate Auto-attack and add a challenge to my battles. 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1 (or 1,1,1,4,1,1,2,1,1,1,3,1) is not interesting. FFXI had the greatest concept for itself in combat, timing. Timing was keeping count of your shadows so you could pull off –ni or hit –ichi just perfectly to put up the next shadow set as last shadow was destroyed. Timing was BLM start casting Flare at just the right second so that you could Magic Burst on the mob (yes there was a time in FFXI when BLM was demanded for every party). WHM had to know what cure to cast on the tank so as to keep him/her alive without ripping the hate. WAR had to provoke just enough to hold hate, yet not lock so hard that hate cannot be taken should the situation call for it. Not to mention all classes had the classic “oh ****!” button that could mean the difference between party wipe or victory.

3. Make me care. Why am I bringing these strange looking cards to floating crystals every day and a half?

4. Make leveling up mean something for me. When I played BLM I remember finally getting the next level spell and running outside of Jeuno to see what the spell looked like nuking the first mob that happened to be around. BLU had me on the edge of keeping myself and the mob alive until it decided to use the ability I was after while at the same time setting up the mob to be slaughtered as soon as I saw said ability.

5. This one, is more a “I would like to see” rather than “fix or I will not play” request. I WANT MY MOOGLE!!!!! I liked the concept of having my Mog House where I could store my useless junk that I would never use but I got as some trophy somewhere and wanted to keep. I enjoyed decorating my individual space and planting random seeds in my flower pots only to forget that I was supposed to feed crystals to them.

I realize this might come off as sounding like “Make it FFXI-2” but that is not my intent. Although I would probably enjoy a FFXI-2 game, I am using the examples above to show my opinion on what SE did correctly last time around and hope they can come up with something to grab my attention in the same way.
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#88 Mar 28 2011 at 8:30 AM Rating: Good
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My current deal-breaker is the targeting system. I use a controller and usually heal in parties. With the last patch they added the target selection system thing. By hitting down on the d-pad I can cycle through my choice of target types . . which is all fine and good until you try to heal a party. Before this addition down on the d-pad would cycle through my party members in an ordered fashion, making healing quick and easy. Now I have to hit left and right on the d-pad, which cycles through my list randomly and sometimes highlights the same 3 people before I get to who is dying. I could put down my controller and pick up my mouse and click on the person I want to heal, but that defeats the purpose of me using a controller in the first place.

I really hope this gets fixed. Healer is my favorite role to play in MMOs and if that can't work properly I think I will be pushed over the edge and the deal will be broken. :/


Edit: and then I read the patch notes X) woohoo! Disregard my earlier whining.


Edited, Mar 28th 2011 7:32am by olaurelindorenan
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#89 Mar 28 2011 at 9:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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JRPGs have been in decline for a long time. Not only is Japan faced with a shrinking population, but classic Fight - Magic - Item menu driven gaming is getting old and tired. Japan's RPG industry has to get more creative and appeal to a larger, international audience. Or die.
Quote:
I don't believe there is enough said. FFXIII wasn't the hit that FFVII was, but it was one of the top selling Final Fantasy games of all time, and it didn't do too badly in reviews either (83 out of 100 on Metacritic for the native PS3). They could always do better, but it wasn't horrible to the point where you could just say "Enough said," like it was an obvious stinker... like you could say about FFXIV which thoroughly and indisputably bombed.

These are all my personal opinions and/or feelings.

Those two are out of order but I believe one is kind of cause and the other is kind of effect. I believe you are correct about the decline of JRPGs and I also believe 13 and 14 are their attempts at appealing to a wider audience. I am playing 12 right now (and enjoying it as a whole) and see many of the precursors of 13 while still playing a Final Fantasy game. To me, 13 didn't "feel" right as far as a FF game goes. It had some of usual stuff but it was.. umm.. watered down.. no.. streamlined.. that's what I will go with. It was streamlined to the point where they removed almost every superfluous aspect of the game. Anything that interfered with getting to the end boss and being done. And by that I mean things like quests or NPCs to interact with or cities to even look around in. Almost any sense of immersion. The game moved forward as if you were on a track with nothing at all to do but fight, fight, fight.. oh and fight. It was as if it was designed to appeal to the masses of FPS players who really do nothing more than fight (nothing wrong with FPS and I enjoy them too but not so much in an RPG). The only thing that even sort of left it feeling like a Final Fantasy game to me was Gran Pulse and even that was pretty crappy. Seemed an awful lot like an after thought to be added to the game.

I see much the same kind of streamlining in 14. An attempt to appeal to players who don't want to be bothered with interacting with NPCs or "silly" quest lines or even stories. They can get everything they need by speaking to a crystal so there's no need to run around wasting time doing anything other than fighting or crafting. I'm only surprised the crystal didn't also replace all the merchants like it was in 13.

Just my opinion about how so many (around here at least) could seem disappointed with 13 while it seemed so popular. 13 (and 14) wasn't made for Final Fantasy players in mind. It was supposed to appeal to a broad spectrum of players which is good and bad I guess.

Edited, Mar 28th 2011 11:27am by MrTalos
#90 Mar 28 2011 at 3:48 PM Rating: Good
13 is the only main title game I haven't played of the Final Fantasy series. First it was for PS3 so I couldn't, but I heard enough about it by the time it came out for 360 that I just didn't want to, and so far nothing has changed that opinion. Has anyone ever played Dirge of Cerberus?

That game wasn't recieved too well, but I sort of liked it. The story is about Vincent Valentine and it takes palce after FF7. It is basically a FF game turned in to a FPS and it sounds to me like they did it in a better way than FF13. Less compromise, less timidness. They wanted to make a FPS with a FF story and they did it. It was streamlined sure, you shop inbetween stages and its not trying to be a RPG so it's not. And to me, it works well because of that, it is what it is, and to me it's kind of fun. Your character is an agile badass who is fun to play as.
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#91 Mar 29 2011 at 12:46 PM Rating: Good
olaurelindorenan wrote:
My current deal-breaker is the targeting system. I use a controller and usually heal in parties. With the last patch they added the target selection system thing. By hitting down on the d-pad I can cycle through my choice of target types . . which is all fine and good until you try to heal a party. Before this addition down on the d-pad would cycle through my party members in an ordered fashion, making healing quick and easy. Now I have to hit left and right on the d-pad, which cycles through my list randomly and sometimes highlights the same 3 people before I get to who is dying. I could put down my controller and pick up my mouse and click on the person I want to heal, but that defeats the purpose of me using a controller in the first place.

I really hope this gets fixed. Healer is my favorite role to play in MMOs and if that can't work properly I think I will be pushed over the edge and the deal will be broken. :/


Edit: and then I read the patch notes X) woohoo! Disregard my earlier whining.


Edited, Mar 28th 2011 7:32am by olaurelindorenan


Did you test the new system?

I cannot figure out how to use UP/DOWN to target party members after Cure is cued.

Somehow this patch has made me far more frustrated with FFXIV then I have been in some time. I fear that they think this targeting is now fixed, and will not revisit it anytime soon.

I won't get any actual feedback from Devs even though I've posted in ZAM feedback, Official forums (in General and Bugs/glitches), and at the official FFXIV Support suggestions page.

I don't know why they even added UP/DOWN party targeting since it dissapears when you begin to cast a spell, forcing you to use LEFT/RIGHT, without the highlighting on the party list.

I'm in a 4 person party and I can't find the player who is being hit before they die. This is vey sad.

Another option is to add <p1> <p2> etc. text targeting commands from FFXI.


#92 Mar 29 2011 at 1:27 PM Rating: Decent
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I do laugh that one of the biggest mentions is because of the lack of distinct classes. Since that was a big problem with 11 was that people kept complaining about how SE kept on trying to fit classes into specific buckets. DRKs and nins were not meant to tank. RDM was a support job. Thf, Rng, Sam were all meant to be proficient in ranged weapons (with nin using throwing). But, at the end of the day, the players kept trying to use the jobs in odd roles (I have seen Linkshells that insisted that WHMs tank in specific situations, I wasn't allowed in some linkshells because I didn't level Drk to sub to nin for god tanking, I had friends leave linkshells because they were plds and were forced to DD).

Needless to say, As long as it's free I will continue to play (if/when I care to log in), but I will not pay for it until it's playable... And while I love a lot about the game, it is generally unplayable (ok, it's a little fun for about 1/2 an hour of soloing or crafting, or something to do with your hands while watching a movie).
#93 Mar 29 2011 at 3:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Second day of playing. So far, The game itself could use some work, but the community doesn't seem much better.

Everyone seems so.. dead. Literally, just silence. I dunno if it's the server I picked but it just seems so quiet.
#94 Mar 29 2011 at 4:23 PM Rating: Decent
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SmashingtonWho wrote:

Somehow this patch has made me far more frustrated with FFXIV then I have been in some time. I fear that they think this targeting is now fixed, and will not revisit it anytime soon.

Amen. I am in the exact same situation. I am hoping for some letter from the producer or a preview of the next big update that maybe restores my faith in this game.
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#95 Mar 29 2011 at 5:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ilean wrote:
SmashingtonWho wrote:

Somehow this patch has made me far more frustrated with FFXIV then I have been in some time. I fear that they think this targeting is now fixed, and will not revisit it anytime soon.

Amen. I am in the exact same situation. I am hoping for some letter from the producer or a preview of the next big update that maybe restores my faith in this game.


Can someone please explain to me why I can't use the function keys, (f1-f8) to target my party members when I'm trying to cast a heal?

I am assuming that they will eventually touch on how ridiculous the threat/emnity system is. (Example: I can spam AoE heals repeatedly, and the mob won't even look at me. But Carbuncle help me, if I cast Bio...) So I would like to know that if/when the game gets to a point that single-target healing isn't a waste of time, I will be able to heal without causing mass-casualties.

I also feel like they just stuck this in the game to say, "There. We addressed the situation. Now to move to other things."

Not to say that they don't need to work on other problems in the game. But I feel like their "fix" didn't do anything but make the situation more stressful and frustrating. I'm really hoping that they aren't done working on it. But then it is frustrating to think that they would actually think it is alright to just add more to the problem.

"Here are two ridiculous targeting systems. Pick which one is less annoying to you."

Or, as SmashingtonWho brought up: They might actually think the problem is fixed, and won't revisit it anytime soon. That could very well be a deal-breaker for me. I know it would be if they wanted me to pay a sub for it. So far, I've given it the benefit of the doubt, thinking that it would eventually be fixed. After the previous "fix" failing, and then just being given the option between two very bad targeting systems... I don't have as much hope for it to get fixed. I can't believe that targeting is really this difficult to fix.

I know that may sound a little extreme. But what good is playing a healer if I can't heal anyone?


It is sad, though. I get the feeling that the people at SE thought their previous targeting system was going to "fix it," and that when they read people saying, "Wow, the older targeting system was actually better than this..." They may have just said, "Fine. We'll give them both, and they can choose. Problem solved."

Problem not solved!
#96 Mar 29 2011 at 6:23 PM Rating: Good
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I didn't see any posts about the music? I was listening to the soundtrack from XI today and reliving my experiences from Zilart, Chains of Promathia, Aht Urgan, etc... Nobody felt that was a deal-breaker?

Content and storyline... Story and content. I'd be willing to forgive many flaws in the game if I had more 'story' to involve me and make me want to continually dig deeper and know more.

The battle system is definitely a priority but there has been plenty of commentary on that already.

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#97 Mar 29 2011 at 7:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Music would be nice... Some of the pieces from XI are definitely worth of praise for just being music, never mind actual themes to various fictional areas.

But I think the music problem is almost the same problem as the lack of different areas to explore. We have five major zones that are huge. FFXI had a bunch of tiny zones that were very different from each other, and most of them had some pretty neat things to find. ****, even Valkurm Dunes had the secret beach, the beached boat, and the cave with the vortex....

In FFXIV, we have large zones that all look like the rest of that zone.

I like to think of the problem as:
music + interesting zones/creatures = atmosphere.

The game lacks atmosphere, on some level or another.

But that's not really a deal-breaker at this very moment. I'm sure that if all of the game-play / UI problems were fixed, then it would be more noticeable. But for now, I get too frustrated at other things to even notice. (Also, go to Corthoes. Neat music, and a very few things to explore. Mostly Ishgard and the neat fort thingy west of the gate).
#98 Mar 30 2011 at 1:02 AM Rating: Decent
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No deal breaker here, despite all its problems, it just slowly faded away with other things I could play or do instead.

I keep telling myself to log back in, but I never get around to it.

Edited, Mar 30th 2011 3:03am by KingWinterclaw
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