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There will be an auto-attackFollow

#1 Mar 30 2011 at 4:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sorry if this has been posted before:

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"Greetings everyone. We have some comments for you regarding auto-attack, straight from FFXIV battle lead, Akihiko Matsui.

Hello adventurers of FFXIV! This is battle lead Akihiko Matsui.

I would like to take this moment to explain the current plans we have in place.

First off, once the future battle balance and battle system adjustments take place, we feel that the implementation of auto-attack is quite necessary. Please embrace this as just one of the many necessary revamps needed to create more interesting and strategy rich battles as well as solve the tediousness of having to spam a button.

With this said, I do not feel that the implementation of auto-attack will solve everything. In other threads there have been many topics coming up about what is going to happen to the stamina gauge and claim system, how classes should have unique qualities and stats, what’s going to happen with monsters, raid dungeons, equipment, etc. I have looked over all of the great number of elements and at the current stage feel that without implementing auto-attack that the future battle system would be impossible.

Compared to the FFXI auto-attack system, we are thinking about making the auto-attack system for FFXIV have a shorter attack delay. (This has been a heated debate on the forum, and having been lead of FFXI please forgive me for bringing it up as a point of comparison. There is no "better" or "worse" system.)

The objective here is not to lower the battle difficulty. The main objective here, when thinking about battles rich in strategy, pace, and exhilaration, is instead of having to time regular attacks, we will be preparing situations that require proper timing of abilities, magic, and weapon skills. Following this, weaker enemies are a different story, but we will make sure it’s balanced so you can’t win a fight just by using auto-attack.

Due to the fact we still have a lot of elements that need to be tested and looked into, it is difficult for me to tell you any more info in great detail, but if you give me some time I will do my best to share the information with you. Thank you!"


link: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/1289-Auto-attack-A-complete-battle-system/page7 post 194



Edited, Mar 30th 2011 6:29pm by northernsky
#2 Mar 30 2011 at 4:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well not having an auto attack didnt work out for them so might as well try auto attack I guess.
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#3 Mar 30 2011 at 4:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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There was a game a few years back, I don't remember the name, but for an opening cutscene, you had to manually blink for your character. It was neat and immersive for about a minute before it got tedious and annoying. that's how it feels every time I press Light Thrust.
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#4 Mar 30 2011 at 4:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Its old only by a couple minutes, I posted it in the developer comments thread but its probably best to have this info in its own thread so we can keep that thread dedicated to compiling comments rather then discussing them :)
#5 Mar 30 2011 at 5:35 PM Rating: Decent
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croythegreat wrote:
Its old only by a couple minutes, I posted it in the developer comments thread but its probably best to have this info in its own thread so we can keep that thread dedicated to compiling comments rather then discussing them :)


Ah great :)

Anyway this thread will last a day or 2 while the "developpers' thread" will be updated continually.

Personally I like this addition a lot, and on top it looks like they won't just add a FFXI auto-attack, and the battle system already in place fits very well with an upgraded form of auto-attack IMO
#6 Mar 30 2011 at 6:31 PM Rating: Good
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I'm just wondering how stamina use will factor into auto-attack. I don't mind it but if it becomes intrusive to other abilities I'll definitely have to pass on it.

If it keeps me from using Second Wind when I need to I'm not gonna be happy.
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#7 Mar 30 2011 at 6:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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I like this news. I decided to start an alternate account that I'm leveling right now and re-doing the early missions and such with a new character has renewed my interest for now. The addition of EXP/SP to quests should help as well, as I hadn't done any of the quests on my main character, so hopefully catching this character up to and past my original and experiencing the new quests and such will carry me until this change is implemented.
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#8 Mar 30 2011 at 6:52 PM Rating: Default
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I will not over react to what little info is given on auto attack at this time. But from that tiny info, it just seems to be a shorter delay auto attack comparable to XI? So if I understand right. Faster auto attack would perhaps lead to faster tp building. And faster tp building could perhaps lead to weaponskills, abilities, etc being usable more often. So now we go from spamming normal attacks to spamming weaponskills and stuff? In XI there is already means to use timing on as well such as shield bash, stun, and other things. So how is this different than XI? It's just faster?

Like I said, I want to see this improved auto attack before I jump to any conclusions. But I don't see how auto attack can have an upgraded version? Gambits? That be similar to an extended battle queue aka semi auto attack. Well, I truly hope it is pretty different from XI or other mmos. Because if it isn't, due to their bad launch and high computer requirements. Why play this game when people with lower spec pcs, could play another mmo XI with an almost similar battle system and 100x the content? Even the non linearity of character progression could become very restricted. If they want to attract more than just FF or XI fans. The game has to strive to become different and exciting in the good ways to justify the high pc specs.

Anyways, they have made me happy playing their offline offering over the years and XI for 7 years. So I at least owe them the chance to show me what they got. But I have no intention of playing any FF with the same races, same battle systems, not even XI though I enjoyed it lots. And even if they do take the easy path like I hoped they wouldn't. I know some players will have fun too. So I would wish you happy times. I would still have their offline titles and XI to play, so I'd be happy too.
#9 Mar 30 2011 at 7:29 PM Rating: Good
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sandpark wrote:
I will not over react to what little info is given on auto attack at this time. But from that tiny info, it just seems to be a shorter delay auto attack comparable to XI? So if I understand right. Faster auto attack would perhaps lead to faster tp building. And faster tp building could perhaps lead to weaponskills, abilities, etc being usable more often. So now we go from spamming normal attacks to spamming weaponskills and stuff? In XI there is already means to use timing on as well such as shield bash, stun, and other things. So how is this different than XI? It's just faster?

Like I said, I want to see this improved auto attack before I jump to any conclusions. But I don't see how auto attack can have an upgraded version? Gambits? That be similar to an extended battle queue aka semi auto attack. Well, I truly hope it is pretty different from XI or other mmos. Because if it isn't, due to their bad launch and high computer requirements. Why play this game when people with lower spec pcs, could play another mmo XI with an almost similar battle system and 100x the content? Even the non linearity of character progression could become very restricted. If they want to attract more than just FF or XI fans. The game has to strive to become different and exciting in the good ways to justify the high pc specs.

Anyways, they have made me happy playing their offline offering over the years and XI for 7 years. So I at least owe them the chance to show me what they got. But I have no intention of playing any FF with the same races, same battle systems, not even XI though I enjoyed it lots. And even if they do take the easy path like I hoped they wouldn't. I know some players will have fun too. So I would wish you happy times. I would still have their offline titles and XI to play, so I'd be happy too.


Auto-attack is probably faster to make it 'feel' more action packed and they will probably reduce tp generation per hit to make up for it. It also depends on what they do with the stamina bar if its even going to be around after all these changes are done. Basically in battle right now we need to spam 1-2 attacks just to get enough tp to do anything meaningful, by doing this we are also hindering our ability to move (You stop every time you do an attack or ability of some kind), we can't communicate, regimens are hard to stabilize because normal attacks get in the way of setting them up, crowd control is near useless because we are more worried about zerging a mob down then stopping a mob from attacking etc. Auto-attack solves a lot of issues and opens up for the developers to actual add more strategic elements to the battlefield that would have been impossible to do in a responsible manner before.

A good way to stop people simply spamming the weaponskills is to make the stamina bar charge up a bit slower when in auto-attack and make ability and spell usage more decisive and have a higher impact. This also makes regimens more useful because if the stamina recharges slower it suddenly makes using regimens all the more enticing to get the best punch or utility for the stamina you have. Make reactionary abilities cost like nothing and weaponskills take a decent chunk out of stamina and suddenly people are not 'just' going to spamming the same weapon whenever you can use it. They will wait for when the best time to use it.
#10 Mar 30 2011 at 7:50 PM Rating: Good
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reptiletim wrote:
I'm just wondering how stamina use will factor into auto-attack. I don't mind it but if it becomes intrusive to other abilities I'll definitely have to pass on it.

If it keeps me from using Second Wind when I need to I'm not gonna be happy.


Auto attack will probably not use stamina, if it did than you could basically lock yourself out of abilities by running low on stamina. What they'll likely do (depending on how much they change the battle system), is lower tp gain per hit, put in an auto attack, and then either adjust stamina use per ability, or the size of the whole bar. They'll just make it fit whatever mold they need to in order to have people using abilities as often as they want us to.
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#11 Mar 30 2011 at 8:01 PM Rating: Decent
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As I said I am not going to panic now or pretend to forsee the future. A faster auto attack might lead to spamming the big skills more. If they slow it down then it is even less different from XI. Stamina was put in place to prevent the game from being a complete hack n slash. Imo it has no place in an auto attack system and would just serve as redundant limiter. Many other mmos allow movement while intitiating spells or skills. And the major problem I have with Battle regiments. Is they should have been non menu based with a timing mechanic in the first place. This is why you see some arguments stating skillchains>battle regiments. The classes should have had at least 1/4 restriction innate skills to each class and still allow alot of customization. But weaponskills and top tier magic should never have been cross class. It doesn't make sense animation wise or in terms of realism. I would have preferred tha alpha accuracy system which if fully realized could have gave us precise controls over parameters such as potency, accuracy, AoE range, power, mp consumption, the list could go on forever. Limited tuning do to players not understanding the potential prevented that from happening. Even an extended battle queue would allow some control over pacing battle, allowing a bit more communication, and bringing something different to the mmo genre.

I am still hoping they can make their decision to go with auto attack truly be an upgraded auto attack from XI. I just can't grasp how that could be other than the reasons I listed.
Does it have to be different from XI? No, I just don't see myself playing if it is almost identical. I played XI 7 years almost everyday. Sometimes a few hours and sometimes all day. But I don't think I could continue playing it another 7 years, if it was only very slightly upgraded graphically and system wise.

Edited, Mar 30th 2011 10:03pm by sandpark
#12 Mar 30 2011 at 9:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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northernsky wrote:
weaker enemies are a different story, but we will make sure it’s balanced so you can’t win a fight just by using auto-attack.


I think that the HP of all monsters should simply be increased. More ponderous battles, at least for me, are always welcome, and the lengthening of battles by this method would prevent auto-attack from becoming the sole method of attack on weaker monsters. Furthermore, by extending the length of battles, it could allow us for more opportunities to use reactionary and/or strategic abilities.

Overall, I am quite excited by this decision! ^_^
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#13 Mar 30 2011 at 10:01 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm still wondering how this will affect Archers. We rely on arrows to deal our damage so how well is it going to work if we're continually firing arrow after arrow? I have been and still am against the idea of an auto-attack. Unfortunately it still looks like we're gonna be stuck with it anyway. All I can hope is they allow an option to toggle it on or off.
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#14 Mar 30 2011 at 10:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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SamusKnight wrote:
I'm still wondering how this will affect Archers. We rely on arrows to deal our damage so how well is it going to work if we're continually firing arrow after arrow? I have been and still am against the idea of an auto-attack. Unfortunately it still looks like we're gonna be stuck with it anyway. All I can hope is they allow an option to toggle it on or off.


This is an interesting question.

I doubt this is the solution, but I have been a little put off by the idea that Archers don't have the ability to use a dagger in close since the game first released. It seems silly to have to use arrows for every single attack, and no auto-attack will present a greater problem with that. I was once was soloing as Archer and on a bit of a tear, really racking up SP at a low level and enjoying it a great deal and then about 3/4 of the way through a mob, I ran out of arrows without realizing it and had to run for my life because there was no other option.
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#15 Mar 30 2011 at 11:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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MCraine wrote:
SamusKnight wrote:
I'm still wondering how this will affect Archers. We rely on arrows to deal our damage so how well is it going to work if we're continually firing arrow after arrow? I have been and still am against the idea of an auto-attack. Unfortunately it still looks like we're gonna be stuck with it anyway. All I can hope is they allow an option to toggle it on or off.


This is an interesting question.

I doubt this is the solution, but I have been a little put off by the idea that Archers don't have the ability to use a dagger in close since the game first released. It seems silly to have to use arrows for every single attack, and no auto-attack will present a greater problem with that. I was once was soloing as Archer and on a bit of a tear, really racking up SP at a low level and enjoying it a great deal and then about 3/4 of the way through a mob, I ran out of arrows without realizing it and had to run for my life because there was no other option.
As far as I know Rangers in FFXI have been asking for auto-shoot as long as the game has been online, and the fact they need a ranged attack macro is even listed as one of the drawbacks of the job.

For once I appreciate the change, ideally it can be toggled on/off reducing the size of the stamina bar proportionally, but if it becomes the standard like in FFXI still good enough for me.

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#16 Mar 30 2011 at 11:18 PM Rating: Good
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As far as I know Rangers in FFXI have been asking for auto-shoot as long as the game has been online, and the fact they need a ranged attack macro is even listed as one of the drawbacks of the job.

For once I appreciate the change, ideally it can be toggled on/off reducing the size of the stamina bar proportionally, but if it becomes the standard like in FFXI still good enough for me.

Ken


I'm not against auto-attack, for archers or otherwise, I just thought it raised an interest question. I don't mind an auto-ranged attack, but I still don't like the fact that archers are too inept to wield a dagger if they run out of ammunition. Overall I'm very happy with the change. I've preferred an FFXI style auto-attack since I first tried XIV.

Edited, Mar 31st 2011 1:18am by MCraine
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#17 Mar 30 2011 at 11:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, it will certainly be an improvement to the game, I guess, but I don't see it doing much for the game considering it's really not going to offer anything new to the market.

I guess the definitive improvement over XI will be that melees will have a selection of abilities more comparable to mages rather than a mere handful. Though that will only be a superficial improvement if they don't enhance the utility of the existing abilities.
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#18 Mar 30 2011 at 11:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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MCraine wrote:
I'm not against auto-attack, for archers or otherwise, I just thought it raised an interest question. I don't mind an auto-ranged attack, but I still don't like the fact that archers are too inept to wield a dagger if they run out of ammunition. Overall I'm very happy with the change. I've preferred an FFXI style auto-attack since I first tried XIV.


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Edited, Mar 31st 2011 1:23am by KaneKitty
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#19 Mar 31 2011 at 12:46 AM Rating: Good
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Thank god there's no vote for this!

I really like the way Akihiko Matsui writes. It's like he knows what he's doing and doesn't need the whole majority's constant reassurance to keep doing his job. Naoki Yoshida however...

Besides why are people so much against any changes? Isn't it quite obvious the game needs big changes and yes big risks to be taken to turn this ship around?
#20 Mar 31 2011 at 1:04 AM Rating: Good
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one thing i like about auto attack is that it allowed me to postion mobs (i was a tank in wow) without just letting the mobs hit me and i do nothing back. this allowed me to strategize and coordinate myself to more effectively and properly use my abitlities.
someone above said "so instead of spamming normal attacks, well just be spamming spells/abilities? whats the difference?"
well idk, but yeah in most other MMOs you keep up a button rotation depending on your situation, the buttons are for spells/abilities only, not just normal attacks.
and as far as it being any different and just being faster, well **** at this point id take faster over what we have now.

Edited, Mar 31st 2011 3:04am by pixelpop
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#21 Mar 31 2011 at 1:06 AM Rating: Good
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Eh, either way is fine for me. I just hope it can be turned on and off, I really don't wanna have autoattack keeping my stamina bar empty. Or maybe they will make regular attacks not use stamina, which would be great too...

I guess we won't know if we really need it until we know how they are changing the battle system.
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#22 Mar 31 2011 at 1:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Besides why are people so much against any changes? Isn't it quite obvious the game needs big changes and yes big risks to be taken to turn this ship around?


And does that mean that we should be content with just any change, just because it's a change?

I like Matsui's attitude as well, although I don't agree with his direction. Sounds like the guy A) wants to work in his comfort zone, which is disappointing, and B) changes the game just for the sake of changing. At least when it comes to Auto-Attack.

Edited, Mar 31st 2011 7:09am by Hyanmen
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#23 Mar 31 2011 at 1:12 AM Rating: Good
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seiferdincht wrote:
I really like the way Akihiko Matsui writes. It's like he knows what he's doing and doesn't need the whole majority's constant reassurance to keep doing his job. Naoki Yoshida however...


I don't think that's really fair to say. I appreciate Naoki Yoshida taking player's opinions into consideration rather than keeping us in the dark to make changes we'll be disappointed with. I think we've already seen where that got the game so far.
#24 Mar 31 2011 at 1:53 AM Rating: Default
I like this change that is to come, makes me think "hmmm if spirit dart was a casters spamming move with auto attack will is take up an action slot?". Ive loved almost every update so far. You go SE! Show those nay sayers whatchu can do lol
#25 Mar 31 2011 at 2:00 AM Rating: Decent
KaneKitty wrote:
northernsky wrote:
weaker enemies are a different story, but we will make sure it’s balanced so you can’t win a fight just by using auto-attack.


I think that the HP of all monsters should simply be increased. More ponderous battles, at least for me, are always welcome, and the lengthening of battles by this method would prevent auto-attack from becoming the sole method of attack on weaker monsters. Furthermore, by extending the length of battles, it could allow us for more opportunities to use reactionary and/or strategic abilities.

Overall, I am quite excited by this decision! ^_^


This^^

I am really looking forward to this as well :)
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#26 Mar 31 2011 at 2:20 AM Rating: Default
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I think that the HP of all monsters should simply be increased. More ponderous battles, at least for me, are always welcome, and the lengthening of battles by this method would prevent auto-attack from becoming the sole method of attack on weaker monsters. Furthermore, by extending the length of battles, it could allow us for more opportunities to use reactionary and/or strategic abilities.


They should simply increase the quantity of monsters, and make "group" of monsters act as a one "encounter". HP can stay as-is for the most part.

The difference between the games would be obvious enough, and you'd still have to use strategy to your advantage as the fights wouldn't be pushovers with that many monsters coming at you at once (obviously CC must be tweaked accordingly).
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#27 Mar 31 2011 at 2:59 AM Rating: Good
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cant blame them for trying. id really like to see this game succeed, and things are looking up in terms of maybe ill want to play it again soon.

but given its current condition, combined with the fact that i have a **** thesis to write (and the new dissida just came out <.<) im still adopting a wait and see attitude.
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#28 Mar 31 2011 at 3:26 AM Rating: Decent
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It's not like i dont want this game to succeed, it's just that i no longer feel SE is up for it with changes like these.

The battle system isnt where the problem lies, it's how there's not an aweful lot to do in the game right now. Among other things. I feel they'd do best to concentrate on things that everyone agrees on, not cutting through the middle on something a lot of people clearly do not want.
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#29 Mar 31 2011 at 3:51 AM Rating: Good
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I feel they'd do best to concentrate on things that everyone agrees on


If you think that the majority agrees that the lack of content is the only significant problem, I have some bad news for you.

While I may not agree with the direction they have taken, the combat system's flaws absolutely needs to be addressed and the system polished further.
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#30 Mar 31 2011 at 4:10 AM Rating: Decent
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KojiroSoma wrote:

The battle system isnt where the problem lies, it's how there's not an aweful lot to do in the game right now. Among other things. I feel they'd do best to concentrate on things that everyone agrees on, not cutting through the middle on something a lot of people clearly do not want.

Consider this: If they don't completely revamp the battle system, new content (fights) will be limited to what we have now with the current H?NMs, essentially spam cure and 1.

Even if we had content, there is simply no way FFXIV could succeed with the current battle system, not with games like Tera coming.
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#31 Mar 31 2011 at 4:13 AM Rating: Good
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KojiroSoma wrote:
It's not like i dont want this game to succeed, it's just that i no longer feel SE is up for it with changes like these.

The battle system isnt where the problem lies, it's how there's not an aweful lot to do in the game right now. Among other things. I feel they'd do best to concentrate on things that everyone agrees on, not cutting through the middle on something a lot of people clearly do not want.


Those 2 may tie in together. Perhaps improvements to current content and their plans for new content will result from or depend on this new battle system & auto attack. That's my optimistic take on it anyway. That hopefully it's more than just slapping in auto-attack & the game doesn't improve. I've been one who didn't think the game needed auto-attack, but I'm open for changes if they work. I just think those against it may see it differently if the result makes the game a whole lot more fun and leads to quality content. And if it doesn't, they can say "Told ya so!" = D
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#32 Mar 31 2011 at 5:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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TwistedOwl wrote:
KojiroSoma wrote:
It's not like i dont want this game to succeed, it's just that i no longer feel SE is up for it with changes like these.

The battle system isnt where the problem lies, it's how there's not an aweful lot to do in the game right now. Among other things. I feel they'd do best to concentrate on things that everyone agrees on, not cutting through the middle on something a lot of people clearly do not want.


Those 2 may tie in together. Perhaps improvements to current content and their plans for new content will result from or depend on this new battle system & auto attack. That's my optimistic take on it anyway. That hopefully it's more than just slapping in auto-attack & the game doesn't improve. I've been one who didn't think the game needed auto-attack, but I'm open for changes if they work. I just think those against it may see it differently if the result makes the game a whole lot more fun and leads to quality content. And if it doesn't, they can say "Told ya so!" = D


I agree with this. Yoshida's already stated that they're focusing on building a new battle system first and releasing our first endgame dungeon with its introducting in a month's time (pre-earthquake timeline). There's no point in them adding loads of content designed around the current (and lets face it, severly lacking) system and then having to adjust it all shortly after. That would just make people ***** MORE because the tweaking is time theyre using that could be producing MOAR CONTENTS.

They're doing it the right way round, you have to look at the bigger picture rather than what you think needs to be fixed now so that you can play. Unofficial beta is unofficial beta.
#33 Mar 31 2011 at 7:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hyanmen wrote:
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Besides why are people so much against any changes? Isn't it quite obvious the game needs big changes and yes big risks to be taken to turn this ship around?


And does that mean that we should be content with just any change, just because it's a change?

I like Matsui's attitude as well, although I don't agree with his direction. Sounds like the guy A) wants to work in his comfort zone, which is disappointing, and B) changes the game just for the sake of changing. At least when it comes to Auto-Attack.


If he A) tries something completely new it's too risky and B) doesn't change anything people will think the game is doomed to failure.

Sounds to me that adding auto-attack isn't just for the sake of making a change but rather part of a grand scheme in which auto-attack is a vital element. It will need to be judged in the context of the final adjustments.

Edited, Mar 31st 2011 9:54am by ForceOfMeh
#34 Mar 31 2011 at 8:12 AM Rating: Good
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I remembered that even Final Fantasy IV DS has an auto attack and I like the way it turned out. I feel auto-attack has a place in FFXIV. Maybe let the player pick whatever ability they want to auto-attack with, I dunno.
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#35 Mar 31 2011 at 2:16 PM Rating: Decent
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+2 SE!

This brings me much closer to coming back to FFXIV now!
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#36 Mar 31 2011 at 2:36 PM Rating: Good
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It's not like i dont want this game to succeed, it's just that i no longer feel SE is up for it with changes like these.

The battle system isnt where the problem lies, it's how there's not an aweful lot to do in the game right now. Among other things. I feel they'd do best to concentrate on things that everyone agrees on, not cutting through the middle on something a lot of people clearly do not want.


The battle system is a huge issue - and I have to say once this auto-attack comes back into the game I may very well be returning full-time, and that's what SE is aiming at here.

I don't mean to make it sound like you and those still playing are insignificant because you aren't, but the fact is that myself and people like me are where SE really needs to focus. There is no way that they can listen to the paranoid minority who think Jump is the antichrist of gaming and renaming the jobs back to classic FF names will cause the whole world to spiral into a never-ending vortex of misery.

They need us, and our credit cards, back if the game will succeed. An auto-attack so that I'm not wearing out my 1 key and can actually focus more on doing my special abilities is a very big step in the right direction.

I also like that they are letting us turn off that obnoxious aggro indicator - Gosh when I saw that thing I just wanted to break the disc in half. Good moves. Keep making them, and profit.
#37 Mar 31 2011 at 2:46 PM Rating: Decent
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"We will be preparing situations that require proper timing of abilities, magic, and weapon skills"

Sounds almost identical to what FFXI had when Magic Bursts were all the rage...before TP burn parties....when DRK/THF was KING with SATA Spinning Slash!
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#38 Mar 31 2011 at 2:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Torrence wrote:
Quote:

It's not like i dont want this game to succeed, it's just that i no longer feel SE is up for it with changes like these.

The battle system isnt where the problem lies, it's how there's not an aweful lot to do in the game right now. Among other things. I feel they'd do best to concentrate on things that everyone agrees on, not cutting through the middle on something a lot of people clearly do not want.


The battle system is a huge issue - and I have to say once this auto-attack comes back into the game I may very well be returning full-time, and that's what SE is aiming at here.

I don't mean to make it sound like you and those still playing are insignificant because you aren't, but the fact is that myself and people like me are where SE really needs to focus. There is no way that they can listen to the paranoid minority who think Jump is the antichrist of gaming and renaming the jobs back to classic FF names will cause the whole world to spiral into a never-ending vortex of misery.

They need us, and our credit cards, back if the game will succeed. An auto-attack so that I'm not wearing out my 1 key and can actually focus more on doing my special abilities is a very big step in the right direction.

I also like that they are letting us turn off that obnoxious aggro indicator - Gosh when I saw that thing I just wanted to break the disc in half. Good moves. Keep making them, and profit.

this.
i too want/need some of what most people here would call a "WoW clone..." influence.
i need an instant super user friendly UI, i want auto attack, i NEED jump (any type, FFXIII?), i want an auction house (/dodgestones), i want to kill zombie dragons, and i want PVP (glad me and yoshi are on the same page).

however, since im a FF fan over anything else, id much rather see this game at least gain some respect in the MMO world. SE doesnt need to be so innovative in every little thing they do. and just as a reminder, Blizzard doesnt own copy rights to things like their UI and battle system, infact not much of what theyve done is original to Blizzard at all, so why shouldnt SE use some of their features as basic gaming aspects?
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#39 Mar 31 2011 at 2:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
They need us, and our credit cards, back if the game will succeed. An auto-attack so that I'm not wearing out my 1 key and can actually focus more on doing my special abilities is a very big step in the right direction.


And this is not because the encounters are so easy that you don't need to press more than 1-2 keys at any time... nope. AA will fix that, and it can not be fixed without AA.

Unlike before, now you can do your special abilities- not because you need to, but because you have nothing else to do!

Edited, Mar 31st 2011 8:49pm by Hyanmen
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#40 Mar 31 2011 at 2:55 PM Rating: Decent
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I honestly don't get the spamming "1" deal that the devs and players talk about.... maybe r1-10 you do, maybe a little but at the start of a battle if you have zero TP ... otherwise you should be 1,2,1,3,4,1,2 etc etc due to cool-downs and extra TP generation from inc damage, LNC abilities etc.

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#41 Mar 31 2011 at 3:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Torrence wrote:


There is no way that they can listen to the paranoid minority who think Jump is the antichrist of gaming and renaming the jobs back to classic FF names will cause the whole world to spiral into a never-ending vortex of misery.


I've probably come off as one of those people in my posts on here before.

I don't see much need for jumping in this game. So to me it's like people just want to jump for no reason. Renaming the classes to classic names does nothing by itself either. If it came with changes(improvements) to each class then I wouldn't see it as a bad thing. And that ties into the plans for changing fights. If auto-attack comes as an essential part of a revamped battle system that makes the game more fun, awesome. Just putting in auto-attack and not improving the game with it, not so much.

People demanding these changes just because without solid reasoning as to what it would do to the game as a whole annoys me. If I come off as paranoid for thinking some of those issues aren't very important, so be it. But I'm not gonna freak out if it happens, just have good reasons & make it work towards a better game = D
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#42 Mar 31 2011 at 3:18 PM Rating: Decent
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They will try very hard to make it different to FFXI I would think, I read them try to push this idea (even if ultimately it ends up identical they won't want to say it).

Problem with FFXIV is that they never wanted to attract FFXI players, they wanted to go for a totally different audience of casuals, it's in their intrest to try attract a different userbase to FFXIV and keep FFXI as it is. Otherwise they spent 50mill to steal players off a game that was already making profit on and had a steady playerbase.
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#43 Mar 31 2011 at 3:27 PM Rating: Decent
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In my opinion a battle system similar to the one of Lineage 2 would fit FFXIV..

1. Fast/medium auto-attack based on speed of each weapon.. - Yes.. FFXI had an auto-attack too.. but I felt like getting asleep between attacks during a fight with my scythe or greatsword... besides stopping for so long after an attack just looked plain stupid imho..

2. Skills would drain stamina.. - So that there would be no need to get rid of it and people would just not spam skills all the time..

3. Magic would drain MP..
- As usual..

4. Special moves would drain TP.. - As usual..

So this is my idea of a good fighting system.. how about it..?

Edited, Mar 31st 2011 5:28pm by KaineGestalt
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#44 Mar 31 2011 at 3:45 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Problem with FFXIV is that they never wanted to attract FFXI players, they wanted to go for a totally different audience of casuals, it's in their intrest to try attract a different userbase to FFXIV and keep FFXI as it is. Otherwise they spent 50mill to steal players off a game that was already making profit on and had a steady playerbase.


While I agree with this statement for the most part, it would seem really narrow minded of them to think that players of FFXI wouldn't attempt to play FFXIV for something new and refreshing and try and stick with it. The fact that the game wasn't even good enough at the beginning to hold on to hardcore FFXI or Final Fantasy fans in general speaks volumes for it's epic failure. If FFXIV didn't hold the attention of some FFXI players who were looking for something new, some of them probably quit playing either game altogether and moved on to something else like WoW.
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#45 Mar 31 2011 at 3:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
1. Fast/medium auto-attack based on speed of each weapon.. - Yes.. FFXI had an auto-attack too.. but I felt like getting asleep between attacks during a fight with my scythe or greatsword... besides stopping for so long after an attack just looked plain stupid imho..

2. Skills would drain stamina.. - So that there would be no need to get rid of it and people would just not spam skills all the time..

3. Magic would drain MP.. - As usual..

4. Special moves would drain TP.. - As usual..

So this is my idea of a good fighting system.. how about it..?


this is exactly what i think they are implimenting. i love it, it makes sense, no ones just standing around, its simple, its intuitive... i just hope they pull it off.
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#46 Mar 31 2011 at 3:55 PM Rating: Good
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Katchii wrote:
Quote:
Problem with FFXIV is that they never wanted to attract FFXI players, they wanted to go for a totally different audience of casuals, it's in their intrest to try attract a different userbase to FFXIV and keep FFXI as it is. Otherwise they spent 50mill to steal players off a game that was already making profit on and had a steady playerbase.


While I agree with this statement for the most part, it would seem really narrow minded of them to think that players of FFXI wouldn't attempt to play FFXIV for something new and refreshing and try and stick with it. The fact that the game wasn't even good enough at the beginning to hold on to hardcore FFXI or Final Fantasy fans in general speaks volumes for it's epic failure. If FFXIV didn't hold the attention of some FFXI players who were looking for something new, some of them probably quit playing either game altogether and moved on to something else like WoW.


I dunno. Early on they talked a lot about wanting to make the transition of players from XI to XIV as smooth as possible and things like that. They also made it to where players could use their XI name with their server being the last name. So they definitely expected XI players to be a part of it.

I think their problem was wanting to attract all kinds of different players. In their attempts to please everyone they made a bit of a mess out of it and turned most people of various groups off.

In some cases, playing XIV has made me appreciate what I left in XI more. Even considered going back to XI at one point, but for me that would mean a new character and I didn't feel like doing all that. Plus I'm cheap and XIV being free is nice...

Edited, Mar 31st 2011 6:04pm by TwistedOwl
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#47 Mar 31 2011 at 4:06 PM Rating: Good
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TwistedOwl wrote:
Torrence wrote:


There is no way that they can listen to the paranoid minority who think Jump is the antichrist of gaming and renaming the jobs back to classic FF names will cause the whole world to spiral into a never-ending vortex of misery.


I've probably come off as one of those people in my posts on here before.

I don't see much need for jumping in this game. So to me it's like people just want to jump for no reason. Renaming the classes to classic names does nothing by itself either. If it came with changes(improvements) to each class then I wouldn't see it as a bad thing. And that ties into the plans for changing fights. If auto-attack comes as an essential part of a revamped battle system that makes the game more fun, awesome. Just putting in auto-attack and not improving the game with it, not so much.

People demanding these changes just because without solid reasoning as to what it would do to the game as a whole annoys me. If I come off as paranoid for thinking some of those issues aren't very important, so be it. But I'm not gonna freak out if it happens, just have good reasons & make it work towards a better game = D


I'd have to agree here.

Changing the names of the classes wouldn't actually do anything for the game. But what I think it could do is great. For the traditional names to stick, SE would have to change the abilities of each class, as none of the classes in the game are remotely close to what jobs people relate them to. I.E. A Gladiator is not a Paladin, a Maurader is not a Dark Knight / Warrior, a Lancer is not a Dragoon, and a Conjurer is not a White Mage/Black Mage. (Depending on how you play it. Either way, it isn't what it should be).

That being said, if SE is wanting to bring the traditional Final Fantasy jobs into the game, they'd have to scrap the old ones. Even if they wanted to add Black Mage as a prestige class, they'd have to take skills away from Conjurer to make that viable. So I'm excited, and desperately waiting for the job-overhaul.

As far as jump goes... I don't see too big of a need for it. But I can also think of a few places that I've thought, "Wow... I can't walk over a rock? I'm twice as tall!" There are also a few ledges that I think should be easy to jump down from. But I don't see the need for the wow-jump I hear people wanting. It isn't going to make the game better.


I'm excited about auto-attack. It's a small step in the right direction, but it's still a big enough step that it revived the small amount of hope I have for the game. I can only hope that they keep the updates coming, and that they continue to keep us posted on their plans.

I think a great deal of my frustration comes from not knowing what will be done about the problems. (For example, does anyone know what SE is planning to do about the targeting system? They've taken a few stabs at the problem, but none of them have been any definite "fix." I'm a little worried that they're just going to shrug it off and pretend that it works).

Anyway, do we know when the patch for Auto-attack will be implemented? I'm excited. (Though I'd like to see the battle system change at the same time the class system does. I think it would be beneficial if those two changes made it into the game at the same time).
#48 Mar 31 2011 at 4:10 PM Rating: Good
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preludes wrote:
They will try very hard to make it different to FFXI I would think, I read them try to push this idea (even if ultimately it ends up identical they won't want to say it).

Problem with FFXIV is that they never wanted to attract FFXI players


Yes they did, they wanted to attract both, while at the same time making XIV as different as possible, which is why the game is in the state it is, since they moved away from even the basics that XI setup.
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#49 Mar 31 2011 at 4:57 PM Rating: Default
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That being said, if SE is wanting to bring the traditional Final Fantasy jobs into the game, they'd have to scrap the old ones.


They don't really. Either the traditional classes specialize from the current classes or they are advanced classes you can branch off to after leveling the current classes. The lore is already in place, as well as several quests fleshing out the classes, so it would not make sense to 'scrap' them. Their backgrounds are unique enough to allow for them to be even part of the specializations if they wanted to do it that way. All they would need to do is make their equipment and abilities stand out (Gladiator to gain "Hercules's Fury", "Zeus's Wrath" and "Caesar's Perseverance" skills for example).
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#50 Mar 31 2011 at 5:08 PM Rating: Good
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As much as I liked the idea of thinking outside the box and making each action in battle decisive from a players control... it also made it extremely hard to move around while fighting (thus negating the whole 'position' thing they were hoping to use strategically), made people focus more on standard attacks then anything of strategic value, and climaxed into truly exemplifying how horrible the target system is in this game because you had to target for every action you did and the only way to solve it was to use lockon and this made it harder to switch to another mob on the fly it also made it impossible for a healer to really use there range normal attack without completely devoting themselves to healing and nothing more.

By having auto-attack you can then focus on your position and where you need to be to time that weaponskill. You can focus on keeping an eye on crowd control while still actually fighting a mob. Healers can assist in damage while still keeping a watchful eye on peoples health and need for buffs, you are not tieing up your stamina bar or ability lag doing something that is standard for every other class. And then you make it possible to actually perform things like regimens without worrying about regular attacks getting in the way and just focus on communication rather then maximizing your 'standard' attacks. Auto-attack allows for strategic components to actually be useful because you won't actually be looking for anything else to do in a party. Time Weaponskills, Time your cures, do Crowd Control, Buff, get in proper position... these will be your jobs in parties instead of worrying about maxing standard damage first the way it is now.
#51 Mar 31 2011 at 5:34 PM Rating: Good
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KaineGestalt wrote:
In my opinion a battle system similar to the one of Lineage 2 would fit FFXIV..

1. Fast/medium auto-attack based on speed of each weapon.. - Yes.. FFXI had an auto-attack too.. but I felt like getting asleep between attacks during a fight with my scythe or greatsword... besides stopping for so long after an attack just looked plain stupid imho..

2. Skills would drain stamina.. - So that there would be no need to get rid of it and people would just not spam skills all the time..

3. Magic would drain MP..
- As usual..

4. Special moves would drain TP.. - As usual..

So this is my idea of a good fighting system.. how about it..?

Edited, Mar 31st 2011 5:28pm by KaineGestalt

I don't see any reason to keep stamina... I think you're right but they'll drop stamina.
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