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Letter from the Producer, VII (04/01/2011) Follow

#52 Apr 01 2011 at 12:49 PM Rating: Good
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Mithsavvy wrote:

At this point I think the general concensus is that even if the Easter event cost them 1-2 designers and a few days of work, it's still too many resources spent on the wrong thing.

Think about it like this:

If the Easter event was so easy to implement that it required hardly any resources... then why does other content take them so damned long to implement?

If the Easter event took substantial resources to implement, then clearly they are wasting their resources on things most people have proven not to care much about.



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#53 Apr 01 2011 at 12:56 PM Rating: Good
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If the Easter event was so easy to implement that it required hardly any resources... then why does other content take them so damned long to implement?


Because it's a simple event?
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#54 Apr 01 2011 at 12:57 PM Rating: Good
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Mithsavvy wrote:
croythegreat wrote:
Why are people getting up an arms at the Easter event... if it wasn't for the event the patch might have been delayed till May but its because of the event they are splitting up the content so some it comes out EARLY and I thought you all wanted more content and changes to come out quicker? Secondly events like these usually only have 1-2 people actually working on them and just require Q&A testing once ready to go. Its not hurting the development cycle, its fluff planned in advance that is supposed to add a dynamic feeling to the world that seasons change just like it changes in the real world.

Thirdly these producer letters are not patch notes, they are letter by the Producer telling people the state of the game as of now and where we are going. He said in the last letter that companies would get their own page or column and thus didn't need to be mentioned in the letter (although it would be nice, he didn't need to) combat changes are in the middle of testing and could change at flick of the switch... so they are aren't going to talk about those till they get finalized. He decided to give a brief update (he didn't have to give an update) about the status of when the next patch is, what went behind the decision, and a small teaser of something new to expect when the full patch is released (Quests paving the way for the new end game content to be released when the combat change is done). It was short, I can understand being disappointed, but some of you are acting like they care more about a seasonal event then they do about fixing the game when they explicitly stated they split up the patch to come out early just so you could have content BEFORE the seasonal event happened which means they did care more about the content then the seasonal event.



At this point I think the general concensus is that even if the Easter event cost them 1-2 designers and a few days of work, it's still too many resources spent on the wrong thing.

Think about it like this:

If the Easter event was so easy to implement that it required hardly any resources... then why does other content take them so damned long to implement?

If the Easter event took substantial resources to implement, then clearly they are wasting their resources on things most people have proven not to care much about.





I think you miss the point of things like events. Not only is it meant as a treat or diversion for the masses, it is a break for the developers and QA as well. As well, it *IS* content. It is something for us to do in the game to add to the immersion. So, it is not a question of resources directly (while an over-use of resources for something like this is not good), it is a question of keeping the idea of the game there. A tradition, or building of... So, while you want them to finish immediately, the amount of delay introduced by them creating something like this, vs the satisfaction of it being properly introduced and successful it their true risk. And if they are at the point where even a moderately good event doesn't have a positive impact vs the delay, the game is already doomed.

Personally, I am happy to see them trying to hold to the events. It is a sign of dedication, and focus. These are ideas and diversions they want in the game, and to cancel something like this is to cancel Christmas on account of losing your job. As an adult I understand the practical reasons to do this, but having lived through it, I also know the long term scares it can leave.

But, I do concede that many people will not happy with any news, only with results. Which is sad, since at the current pace of development, we are looking at sometime between October and March before they can start moving forward with the game (a.k.a introduce "New" features and updates to the game that are not directly or indirectly meant to "Fix" a problem, such as expansions).
#55 Apr 01 2011 at 1:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Only thing I keep thinking about these days is: "God I hope the next (dungeon)gear doesn't only make you look pretty". The whole mindless barbiedoll dressup thing is not why I play this game.
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#56 Apr 01 2011 at 1:19 PM Rating: Good
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rfolkker wrote:

I think you miss the point of things like events. Not only is it meant as a treat or diversion for the masses, it is a break for the developers and QA as well. As well, it *IS* content. It is something for us to do in the game to add to the immersion. So, it is not a question of resources directly (while an over-use of resources for something like this is not good), it is a question of keeping the idea of the game there. A tradition, or building of... So, while you want them to finish immediately, the amount of delay introduced by them creating something like this, vs the satisfaction of it being properly introduced and successful it their true risk. And if they are at the point where even a moderately good event doesn't have a positive impact vs the delay, the game is already doomed.

1. I am willing to bet that seasonal events are not what the masses want at this point. Not unless it's a new dungeon you raid and kill Vorpal Easter Bunnies for eggs, then trade them in for new level 50 armor and weapons (with awesome stats that don't do crap because the battle formulas are still broken).

2. Dear god, if there is a group of people within SE who don't deserve a break it's the FFXIV team. That's what they were doing for the best part of five years, apparently.

3. Everything is content in a MMORPG. You could even say you haven't fully experienced a zone until you have walked over every square inch of it, as every job. They shouldn't add content that most people (see point 1) don't want.

4. Immersion out of SE style easter egg hunt? Really? Maybe in Hello Kitty Island Adventure.
EDIT: Or try http://www.freerealms.com/

5. Keeping-the-idea-of-the-game vs Keeping-the-game-alive-by-not-losing-more-customers, hmmm I wonder...




Edited, Apr 1st 2011 2:21pm by Ilean
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#57 Apr 01 2011 at 1:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ilean wrote:
1. I am willing to bet that seasonal events are not what the masses want at this point. Not unless it's a new dungeon you raid and kill Vorpal Easter Bunnies for eggs, then trade them in for new level 50 armor and weapons (with awesome stats that don't do crap because the battle formulas are still broken).



Edited, Apr 1st 2011 2:21pm by Ilean


I am 100% in favor of Vorpal Bunnies. In fact, why does this game not have bunnies at all? I agree with the assessment that holiday events should be possibly postponed until the game has a better core.
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#58 Apr 01 2011 at 1:47 PM Rating: Excellent
Let's check out the event before complaining about it.
#59 Apr 01 2011 at 2:03 PM Rating: Decent
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SmashingtonWho wrote:
Let's check out the event before complaining about it.


Nah! Lets complain about it, like the quest patch, in the end we where right, they where worthless lol
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#60 Apr 01 2011 at 2:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Nah! Lets complain about it, like the quest patch, in the end we where right, they where worthless lol


And you imply this would be something to complain about? The more worthless it is, the better.
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#61 Apr 01 2011 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
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Ilean wrote:
Mithsavvy wrote:

At this point I think the general concensus is that even if the Easter event cost them 1-2 designers and a few days of work, it's still too many resources spent on the wrong thing.

Think about it like this:

If the Easter event was so easy to implement that it required hardly any resources... then why does other content take them so damned long to implement?

If the Easter event took substantial resources to implement, then clearly they are wasting their resources on things most people have proven not to care much about.



QFT

you forgot to mention that the easter event has also been delayed till the mid of april and will extend beyond its original intention and real life date "whenever that real life date is)
i kind of agree, if making seasonal events are easy, why would any of them need to be delayed regardless of an earthquake? if it were easy, youd just impliment it real quick lol, and im quite sure this even was being worked on before the desaster.
this game doesnt need any holiday events at all right now, they dont do anything and are mindless semi time sinks with horrible looking gear as a reward, oh or chocolate.

Edited, Apr 1st 2011 4:48pm by pixelpop

Edited, Apr 1st 2011 4:49pm by pixelpop
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#62 Apr 01 2011 at 3:00 PM Rating: Good
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Personally, I am happy to see them trying to hold to the events. It is a sign of dedication, and focus.


Dedicated to and focusing on the wrong things that don't make the game better and no one really cares about.

Quote:
These are ideas and diversions they want in the game, and to cancel something like this is to cancel Christmas on account of losing your job. As an adult I understand the practical reasons to do this, but having lived through it, I also know the long term scares it can leave.


What?
#63 Apr 01 2011 at 3:36 PM Rating: Good
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Just giving a different perspective. I like the events (ok, I am NEVER going to defend the bells...), and while the quests came off as suck, I actually found a quest that wasn't a kill quest, which restored some of my hope.

The events are just simple quests that expire. Since they are re-vamping future gear, and the stats, and the combat engine, every piece of gear we have at this point will most likely go the way of the dodo (or have to be redesigned with any gear they are planing to release). Expecting anything fantastic at this point will only lead to disappointment later when the cool stuff they give you gets broken because of some update or another. I am actually relieved they are not supplying OMG gear at this point, because the angst it will generate will be almost comical (now that I said that, watch, the easter update has something people actually drool over...).

Hopefully they get things redesigned enough to get people the gear and quests they want soon, kinda sad to come to forums to see new info only to be inundated with negative predictions and angst over vagueness...

Anyways, I hope you guys find something enjoyable about the game.
#64 Apr 01 2011 at 3:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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rfolkker wrote:

Hopefully they get things redesigned enough to get people the gear and quests they want soon, kinda sad to come to forums to see new info only to be inundated with negative predictions and angst over vagueness...

Don't feel bad, or take it personal, it's just that at the end of the day we are talking about a game who was released to disappointment, had its producer canned and after 6 months the only significant improvements we've seen are fixes to an UI that was in a word, atrocious.

It's not that most of us want to be negative, my first post in this thread was very short and all I said was that I was displeased with them diverting resources to seasonal events. The thing is if you post blind optimism, that honestly seems completely out of touch with the reality of the game, it's hard not to point out exactly why we disagree.
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#65 Apr 01 2011 at 4:42 PM Rating: Decent
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LateReg wrote:
Yeah... ummm... maybe level a class to a rank that takes more than 2 hours before you comment on how sh*tty the patches are. You clearly aren't able to understand the frustration of those of us who put a good amount of time in so far.



Yea, but maybe you should take a breather and see the outside world cause many people that play also want low to mid-level content as well.
#66 Apr 01 2011 at 6:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Buttsniffa wrote:
LateReg wrote:
Yeah... ummm... maybe level a class to a rank that takes more than 2 hours before you comment on how sh*tty the patches are. You clearly aren't able to understand the frustration of those of us who put a good amount of time in so far.



Yea, but maybe you should take a breather and see the outside world cause many people that play also want low to mid-level content as well.


the game NEEDs content for every level range. Which is more important? who knows, again I'd say both are equal. The problem here is the game has a list of needs so long, that its impossible to get done. From my perspective, if they really think holiday events are a good use of their time (which maybe they do, they could use them to give one time rewards to people playing now), but please don't waste tons of time on them. Keep the **** bells if it makes it easier on the team, and lets them get to fixing the battle/class systems, and then figuring out what we're going to be doing with them.
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#67 Apr 01 2011 at 10:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Not to be indelicate, but look at the amount of content and fixes added to Rift in one month of live play, and look at 6 months at SE. Someone said something about SE keeping quiet lest info go to their competitors. FFXIV has no competition now, and I don't mean that in a good way.

Edited, Apr 2nd 2011 12:15am by hexaemeron
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#68 Apr 01 2011 at 10:49 PM Rating: Decent
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i will enjoy the change in atmosphere during the easter event.

i enjoy watching people ***** left and right its amusing and fun...you people do realize the severe lack of developers working on xiv right. you also realize the original guys, the devs with the plan where thrown out on there ***... they should be working and helping the new dev team instead of Dooming new projects with there obvious lack of ability's.

if they don't get more developers on this FFXIV bound to fail...

if you want someone to blame, Yoichi Wada is the man that needs it. he's an Enix tool, and his rein as CEO has seen ff titles reduced to worthless garbage. he's not allocating the resources needed to keep this project floating and i believe its purely intentional.
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#69 Apr 01 2011 at 11:35 PM Rating: Good
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FelixValmont wrote:
i enjoy watching people ***** left and right its amusing and fun...you people do realize the severe lack of developers working on xiv right. you also realize the original guys, the devs with the plan where thrown out on there ***... they should be working and helping the new dev team instead of Dooming new projects with there obvious lack of ability's.

if they don't get more developers on this FFXIV bound to fail...

Yoshi-P wrote:
You could see that they were having a very hard time. They were working very hard. And the company's timing to say, 'Okay, we can give some help to you guys from our team' - or to put out that helping hand to the team - we realised that the timing that they offered help was probably a little too late.

I mean, again, everyone has their own projects, and they're worried about their own projects, but they could have helped a little earlier, possibly.

Seems to me like they have the help they've requested, if belatedly. Also, at the risk of blowing my own horn:
Wintersage wrote:
The only thing that gives me a glimmer of hope is the fact that from what I've read, it would seem the lion's share of the XIV team is currently nose-to-the-grindstone on reworking the battle system.


My two gil.
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#70 Apr 01 2011 at 11:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Wintersage wrote:
FelixValmont wrote:
i enjoy watching people ***** left and right its amusing and fun...you people do realize the severe lack of developers working on xiv right. you also realize the original guys, the devs with the plan where thrown out on there ***... they should be working and helping the new dev team instead of Dooming new projects with there obvious lack of ability's.

if they don't get more developers on this FFXIV bound to fail...

Yoshi-P wrote:
You could see that they were having a very hard time. They were working very hard. And the company's timing to say, 'Okay, we can give some help to you guys from our team' - or to put out that helping hand to the team - we realised that the timing that they offered help was probably a little too late.

I mean, again, everyone has their own projects, and they're worried about their own projects, but they could have helped a little earlier, possibly.

Seems to me like they have the help they've requested, if belatedly. Also, at the risk of blowing my own horn:
Wintersage wrote:
The only thing that gives me a glimmer of hope is the fact that from what I've read, it would seem the lion's share of the XIV team is currently nose-to-the-grindstone on reworking the battle system.


My two gil.


still failing to take into account there basically reworking the intire core of the game and for that they are severely understaffed.
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#71 Apr 02 2011 at 12:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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FelixValmont wrote:
Wintersage wrote:
FelixValmont wrote:
i enjoy watching people ***** left and right its amusing and fun...you people do realize the severe lack of developers working on xiv right. you also realize the original guys, the devs with the plan where thrown out on there ***... they should be working and helping the new dev team instead of Dooming new projects with there obvious lack of ability's.

if they don't get more developers on this FFXIV bound to fail...

Yoshi-P wrote:
You could see that they were having a very hard time. They were working very hard. And the company's timing to say, 'Okay, we can give some help to you guys from our team' - or to put out that helping hand to the team - we realised that the timing that they offered help was probably a little too late.

I mean, again, everyone has their own projects, and they're worried about their own projects, but they could have helped a little earlier, possibly.

Seems to me like they have the help they've requested, if belatedly. Also, at the risk of blowing my own horn:
Wintersage wrote:
The only thing that gives me a glimmer of hope is the fact that from what I've read, it would seem the lion's share of the XIV team is currently nose-to-the-grindstone on reworking the battle system.


My two gil.


still failing to take into account there basically reworking the intire core of the game and for that they are severely understaffed.


I agree completely, and its why I think this is doomed to fail. SE seems to be treating this like just one of their games. Rift, WOW, every other MMO team has tons more people working on it. (or maybe they don't and SE's people are just horrible and ineffecient, but I want to believe they just have a tiny team for what they need to do). SWTOR was in the process of making the same mistake, until they pulled in everyone available to them from each other bioware studio to help, and delayed their target release again.

The whole thing just feels like a mickey mouse operation, if they really want to turn it around, they need to start taking it seriously, and double or triple their current efforts. They really do not need every PS3 review starting off with "FFXIV, remember that games that failed 2 years ago"
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#72 Apr 02 2011 at 10:02 AM Rating: Good
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rfolkker wrote:
Personally, I am happy to see them trying to hold to the events. It is a sign of dedication, and focus. These are ideas and diversions


I'm curious how setting aside major fixes and patches, even in some small way, constitutes a sign of both dedication and focus.

Personally, I don't care what SE does, as I won't be playing FFXIV for many months regardless; but I still don't see how little holiday events, which even if they're five times better than all of the previous events combined, would barely take a half-hour to complete, show "focus" like you say.

rfolkker wrote:
to cancel something like this is to cancel Christmas on account of losing your job. As an adult I understand the practical reasons to do this, but having lived through it, I also know the long term scares it can leave.


First of all, sometimes it's more important to spend money on food and housing than presents. If you're poor enough, sometimes you can't celebrate; FFXIV is poor enough. Second, an Easter event in an online game probably won't leave as profound "long term scares" as you think it might.

Edited, Apr 2nd 2011 4:00pm by KaneKitty
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#73 Apr 02 2011 at 11:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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rfolkker wrote:
Mithsavvy wrote:
croythegreat wrote:
Why are people getting up an arms at the Easter event... if it wasn't for the event the patch might have been delayed till May but its because of the event they are splitting up the content so some it comes out EARLY and I thought you all wanted more content and changes to come out quicker? Secondly events like these usually only have 1-2 people actually working on them and just require Q&A testing once ready to go. Its not hurting the development cycle, its fluff planned in advance that is supposed to add a dynamic feeling to the world that seasons change just like it changes in the real world.

Thirdly these producer letters are not patch notes, they are letter by the Producer telling people the state of the game as of now and where we are going. He said in the last letter that companies would get their own page or column and thus didn't need to be mentioned in the letter (although it would be nice, he didn't need to) combat changes are in the middle of testing and could change at flick of the switch... so they are aren't going to talk about those till they get finalized. He decided to give a brief update (he didn't have to give an update) about the status of when the next patch is, what went behind the decision, and a small teaser of something new to expect when the full patch is released (Quests paving the way for the new end game content to be released when the combat change is done). It was short, I can understand being disappointed, but some of you are acting like they care more about a seasonal event then they do about fixing the game when they explicitly stated they split up the patch to come out early just so you could have content BEFORE the seasonal event happened which means they did care more about the content then the seasonal event.



At this point I think the general concensus is that even if the Easter event cost them 1-2 designers and a few days of work, it's still too many resources spent on the wrong thing.

Think about it like this:

If the Easter event was so easy to implement that it required hardly any resources... then why does other content take them so damned long to implement?

If the Easter event took substantial resources to implement, then clearly they are wasting their resources on things most people have proven not to care much about.





I think you miss the point of things like events. Not only is it meant as a treat or diversion for the masses, it is a break for the developers and QA as well. As well, it *IS* content. It is something for us to do in the game to add to the immersion. So, it is not a question of resources directly (while an over-use of resources for something like this is not good), it is a question of keeping the idea of the game there. A tradition, or building of... So, while you want them to finish immediately, the amount of delay introduced by them creating something like this, vs the satisfaction of it being properly introduced and successful it their true risk. And if they are at the point where even a moderately good event doesn't have a positive impact vs the delay, the game is already doomed.

Personally, I am happy to see them trying to hold to the events. It is a sign of dedication, and focus. These are ideas and diversions they want in the game, and to cancel something like this is to cancel Christmas on account of losing your job. As an adult I understand the practical reasons to do this, but having lived through it, I also know the long term scares it can leave.

But, I do concede that many people will not happy with any news, only with results. Which is sad, since at the current pace of development, we are looking at sometime between October and March before they can start moving forward with the game (a.k.a introduce "New" features and updates to the game that are not directly or indirectly meant to "Fix" a problem, such as expansions).


First, I have not heard them say 'sometime between October and March'. If they said that, perhaps we would quiet down a bit and wait or do something else.

Second, who cares about news and promises? If that's all it takes to make a good mmo, then I need to make my own. I can promise my way to one badazz game.


#74 Apr 02 2011 at 11:38 AM Rating: Good
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By the way, Rift just released a big content update that added new large scale battle content, hundreds of new items, and a 20 player raid (unlocked when you complete part of the large scale battle).

Releasing that much content 1 month after the initial release of the game is kind of a slap in the face to FFXIV. And we already all know how "polished" their release was compared to FFXIV.

Granted, their crappy graphics killed it for me, but do better graphics make content 12x longer to implement? If so, then I need to lower my standards.



#75 Apr 02 2011 at 11:45 AM Rating: Good
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Granted, their crappy graphics killed it for me, but do better graphics make content 12x longer to implement? If so, then I need to lower my standards.


Well, I can't claim Rift is in the process of rehauling it's core features by as much as 70% anytime soon.

Sure, they don't need to do that, but it explains why they can focus on content while Square-Enix can not.

Secondly, the new S-E team is not as familiar with the new development process, nor is the management familiar with the project and it's members as a whole. I am sure Trion has laid out the plans for these updates long beforehand, and everyone knows what they are capable of. That is more unacceptable for S-E, but can't really be helped for the time being.



Edited, Apr 2nd 2011 5:53pm by Hyanmen
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#76 Apr 02 2011 at 12:02 PM Rating: Good
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croythegreat wrote:
raid environments

ugh...
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#77 Apr 02 2011 at 12:35 PM Rating: Default
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Mithsavvy wrote:
By the way, Rift just released a big content update that added new large scale battle content, hundreds of new items, and a 20 player raid (unlocked when you complete part of the large scale battle).

Releasing that much content 1 month after the initial release of the game is kind of a slap in the face to FFXIV. And we already all know how "polished" their release was compared to FFXIV.

Granted, their crappy graphics killed it for me, but do better graphics make content 12x longer to implement? If so, then I need to lower my standards.





Content=Gameplay >>> Graphics all the time
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#78 Apr 02 2011 at 2:12 PM Rating: Decent
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TheonVenethiel wrote:
croythegreat wrote:
raid environments

ugh...


I can't wait to "roll need" on all the "loot" after a talk to the "! NPC" involved in my "raid environments!" ***** WoW Star Trek Online Warhammer Rift everything else, I'll have my awesome, non-derivative FFXIV!*

*now with more instances: so many instances, in fact, that you may as well be playing a barren, lonely, single-player grinding game! :D
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#79 Apr 02 2011 at 3:44 PM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:
TheonVenethiel wrote:
croythegreat wrote:
raid environments

ugh...


I can't wait to "roll need" on all the "loot" after a talk to the "! NPC" involved in my "raid environments!" ***** WoW Star Trek Online Warhammer Rift everything else, I'll have my awesome, non-derivative FFXIV!*

*now with more instances: so many instances, in fact, that you may as well be playing a barren, lonely, single-player grinding game! :D


The "!" helped me find some of the side-quests may not have noticed, but it just felt wrong = (
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#80 Apr 02 2011 at 4:14 PM Rating: Good
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LateReg wrote:
Yeah... ummm... maybe level a class to a rank that takes more than 2 hours before you comment on how sh*tty the patches are. You clearly aren't able to understand the frustration of those of us who put a good amount of time in so far.


Never understood these kinds of statements. Are you seriously suggesting that making the early game fun is not a good idea? Or that people who found the early game lacking have no right to complain? Or that your opinion somehow has more weight if you made this game your 2nd job? Do you realize that ALL parts of the game need be fun if you want a successful game?
#81 Apr 03 2011 at 3:19 AM Rating: Default
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KaneKitty wrote:
rfolkker wrote:
Personally, I am happy to see them trying to hold to the events. It is a sign of dedication, and focus. These are ideas and diversions


I'm curious how setting aside major fixes and patches, even in some small way, constitutes a sign of both dedication and focus.


Why do people keep saying this? I understand a lot of people have zero game development knowledge, let alone media design knowledge, but it's quite obvious events isn't a major development focus of any style MMO..

Especially not to a point the producer would be like "Ok drop everything and activate the seasonal event!"....there are various departments in game development for a reason.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2011 3:16am by Theonehio
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#82 Apr 05 2011 at 12:08 AM Rating: Good
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In my 2+ years of XI so far I haven't done one single seasonal event all the way through. Ok so they're 30 times more challenging and long than XIV events have been (most of them have no dialogue nor goal even) but still in XI the seasonal events are just basically filler stuff that usually aren't worth doing for the rewards but for the variety.

If they're **** bent on working on these events then at least they give the illusion that something is happening in the world as you log on.

Interestingly enough seasonal events are always the quests that don't have cutscenes in XI but in XIV everybody is used tot he fact that such things don't exist.
#83 Apr 05 2011 at 6:22 PM Rating: Decent
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241 posts
My opinion of the easter event, and all other mundane events, is that they have likely been programmed already and therefore would have a minimal impact on current developments. Lets face it, they've been doing the easter egg hunt for almost 10 years. Its not like they just came up with the idea because everyone started crying for kontent (k in respect for the upcomming MK release).

On a side note, although most event rewards were worthless, the Easter event did give a useful item in XI. I always had one of those lucky eggs with me.
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