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Yoshi-P Interview - Why he thinks the launch failedFollow

#52 Apr 05 2011 at 6:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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ForceOfMeh wrote:
HardHotThrobbingAetherite wrote:
ForceOfMeh wrote:
Ostia wrote:
How can people knock the TANAKA!?! That's just Blasphemy right There! <.<

How come the man that was behind FFXI gets bashed, but the new guy, the card guy, that just write letters, and half his updates where from tanaka's team, gets all the praise in the world? Come on, neither of them do 100% of the work, but Tanaka was in charge of FFXI and look how it turned out <.<

People need to be less biased <.<


Tanaka could get away with a lot. But producing a 5-years-in-the-making subscription-based game with hardly any potential subscribers is not one of them. That's really what it comes down to.


Without any concrete facts about production budgets and size of the dev team over that 5-year period, it is unfair to blame Tanaka. If someone has insider knowledge or can produce some supporting evidence for the claim that Tanaka is at fault, I'm all ears. One cannot reasonably posit a cause from an effect (e.g. Tanaka is the cause of the failed launch effect) without some form of supporting evidence.


He was the man in charge of the operation. The operation failed (game critically bombed to the point where there wouldn't be enough subscribers to keep the game afloat). Therefore, he's the man responsible for the failure, and it's reflected in his being let go from his position.

How could it not be his fault?


Poor Managment, thats how.

WADA WADA WADA WADA, is what Yoichi should be screaming because at this point i wouldn't **** on the man if he was on fire.

as far as Yoshi is concerned, he's just another face to me... at the end of the day Tanaka was a failed puppet, that nobody like for obvious reasons. but every one loves puppet yoshi-p he's friendly & writes letters detailing yet to be seen development progress.

You can flame me, downrate me, and call me a fool, but if yoshi doesn't start composing his own dance and tune, he's going to be out on his *** just like poor old Crap bag tanaka, because the crap has to fall in someones lap and it wont be Wada's.
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#53 Apr 05 2011 at 7:06 PM Rating: Decent
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844 posts
OKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!

Someone forgot to take his meds today.


I don't necessarily disagree with his opinion though.

FelixValmont wrote:
ForceOfMeh wrote:
HardHotThrobbingAetherite wrote:
ForceOfMeh wrote:
Ostia wrote:
How can people knock the TANAKA!?! That's just Blasphemy right There! <.<

How come the man that was behind FFXI gets bashed, but the new guy, the card guy, that just write letters, and half his updates where from tanaka's team, gets all the praise in the world? Come on, neither of them do 100% of the work, but Tanaka was in charge of FFXI and look how it turned out <.<

People need to be less biased <.<


Tanaka could get away with a lot. But producing a 5-years-in-the-making subscription-based game with hardly any potential subscribers is not one of them. That's really what it comes down to.


Without any concrete facts about production budgets and size of the dev team over that 5-year period, it is unfair to blame Tanaka. If someone has insider knowledge or can produce some supporting evidence for the claim that Tanaka is at fault, I'm all ears. One cannot reasonably posit a cause from an effect (e.g. Tanaka is the cause of the failed launch effect) without some form of supporting evidence.


He was the man in charge of the operation. The operation failed (game critically bombed to the point where there wouldn't be enough subscribers to keep the game afloat). Therefore, he's the man responsible for the failure, and it's reflected in his being let go from his position.

How could it not be his fault?


Poor Managment, thats how.

WADA WADA WADA WADA, is what Yoichi should be screaming because at this point i wouldn't **** on the man if he was on fire.

as far as Yoshi is concerned, he's just another face to me... at the end of the day Tanaka was a failed puppet, that nobody like for obvious reasons. but every one loves puppet yoshi-p he's friendly & writes letters detailing yet to be seen development progress.

You can flame me, downrate me, and call me a fool, but if yoshi doesn't start composing his own dance and tune, he's going to be out on his *** just like poor old Crap bag tanaka, because the crap has to fall in someones lap and it wont be Wada's.

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See your face upon the clear water. How dirty! Come! Wash your face!
#54 Apr 05 2011 at 10:52 PM Rating: Good
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568 posts
I agree on the Tanaka sentiment. Remember how massive the first patches were? Then N. Yoshida took over and slowly updates stopped. I'm absolutely thrilled that Yoshida writes letters actually I encourage anyone to have a hobby of some sort. Has any of his "overhaul" promises amounted to anything other than insecure polls?

Yet again I have to say that XI has had a lot more substantial updates since the release of XIV to me XIV team is definitely not working overtime and absolutely not showing how they're trying to fix the game. This is basic everyday MMO management with a slightly smaller update schedule than a normal paid MMO would have.
#55 Apr 06 2011 at 5:25 AM Rating: Decent
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seiferdincht wrote:
I agree on the Tanaka sentiment. Remember how massive the first patches were? Then N. Yoshida took over and slowly updates stopped. I'm absolutely thrilled that Yoshida writes letters actually I encourage anyone to have a hobby of some sort. Has any of his "overhaul" promises amounted to anything other than insecure polls?

Yet again I have to say that XI has had a lot more substantial updates since the release of XIV to me XIV team is definitely not working overtime and absolutely not showing how they're trying to fix the game. This is basic everyday MMO management with a slightly smaller update schedule than a normal paid MMO would have.

To be fair, under Tanaka they weren't trying to overhaul several systems like they are (orly? we have yet to see it) with Yoshida...

They need to hurry up...
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See your face upon the clear water. How dirty! Come! Wash your face!
#56 Apr 06 2011 at 6:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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1,606 posts
FelixValmont wrote:
Poor Managment, thats how.

This whole situation has reminded me of an episode of The Simpsons. There's one where Homer discovers he has a brother. He goes to meet him and discovers he is a successful business man who runs a car company. Herb, Homer's brother, gets so wrapped up in discovering that he has a family he makes a bad, bad decision. He asks Homer to design a new car for his company and gives Homer complete control over it. Herb goes off to spend time with the others and just leaves Homer to do whatever he wants. Herb is back for the unveiling of the new car and discovers it's a monstrosity that cost a ton in development and the car itself is way to expensive. Herb's company goes under and he's flat broke afterward.

It's like Wada told Tanaka to just do whatever he wanted and then just left him. I get that Wada is "the man" at SE and he doesn't handle the day to day stuff but you'd think he would've at least tried to pay a bit more attention to their new MMO. Unless, of course, it was Wada who made these decisions and that's how we ended up where we are.

Info on that Simpsons episode:

Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?

Edited, Apr 6th 2011 8:12am by MrTalos
#57 Apr 06 2011 at 6:31 AM Rating: Excellent
Interesting that SE funds XIV by themselves. I never knew that or even really stopped to think about it. The rest, we could have taken an educated guess about, but it's as good a thing as any to talk about, I suppose. They've made pretty clear clear their plans for XIV (and that said plans are going to be their primary focus), so I suppose until those major changes finally go in it's sort of a dead horse as far as interviews go.
#58 Apr 06 2011 at 8:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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1,636 posts
MrTalos wrote:
FelixValmont wrote:
Poor Managment, thats how.

This whole situation has reminded me of an episode of The Simpsons. There's one where Homer discovers he has a brother. He goes to meet him and discovers he is a successful business man who runs a car company. Herb, Homer's brother, gets so wrapped up in discovering that he has a family he makes a bad, bad decision. He asks Homer to design a new car for his company and gives Homer complete control over it. Herb goes off to spend time with the others and just leaves Homer to do whatever he wants. Herb is back for the unveiling of the new car and discovers it's a monstrosity that cost a ton in development and the car itself is way to expensive. Herb's company goes under and he's flat broke afterward.

It's like Wada told Tanaka to just do whatever he wanted and then just left him. I get that Wada is "the man" at SE and he doesn't handle the day to day stuff but you'd think he would've at least tried to pay a bit more attention to their new MMO. Unless, of course, it was Wada who made these decisions and that's how we ended up where we are.

Info on that Simpsons episode:

Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?



I know there is a large blame Wada contingent around here, but I still can't get behind it. It's not Wada's job to micromanage Tanaka. He put a guy in charge of a mid-level project, a guy who had performed well in the past, and thats about all Wada should have had to do. to compare it to your simpsons reference, it would have been if homer had designed 6 cars before hand that were all well enough received, then designed a monstrosity.

The 'default' blame should be focused on Tanaka. If someone's got a copy of one of his reports saying they need 200 more guys, 6 more months, and someone with fresh ideas, that Wada ignored then I'll jump on the bandwagon with you.

Quote:
To be fair, under Tanaka they weren't trying to overhaul several systems like they are (orly? we have yet to see it) with Yoshida...

They need to hurry up...


and I know its hard to provide, but I think people would be more forgiving if there was any evidence of specifics that overhauls were actually taking place. They haven't said anything other than "we're working on it".

Edited, Apr 6th 2011 10:20am by KujaKoF
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#59 Apr 06 2011 at 9:55 AM Rating: Good
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KujaKoF wrote:

and I know its hard to provide, but I think people would be more forgiving if there was any evidence of specifics that overhauls were actually taking place. They haven't said anything other than "we're working on it".

Edited, Apr 6th 2011 10:20am by KujaKoF

Agree 100%, I bet Uldah wouldn't be so empty if they cared to post some evidence of the changes. It's not about satisfying our curiosity, but about helping players to keep the faith.
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See your face upon the clear water. How dirty! Come! Wash your face!
#60 Apr 06 2011 at 11:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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1,606 posts
KujaKoF wrote:
I know there is a large blame Wada contingent around here, but I still can't get behind it. It's not Wada's job to micromanage Tanaka. He put a guy in charge of a mid-level project, a guy who had performed well in the past, and thats about all Wada should have had to do. to compare it to your simpsons reference, it would have been if homer had designed 6 cars before hand that were all well enough received, then designed a monstrosity.

I know. It just always struck me as funny how the game ended up being released. It almost was like anyone who would be supervising Tanaka's progress was off somewhere else the past few years.
KujaKoF wrote:
The 'default' blame should be focused on Tanaka. If someone's got a copy of one of his reports saying they need 200 more guys, 6 more months, and someone with fresh ideas, that Wada ignored then I'll jump on the bandwagon with you.
Quote:
Yoshida also explained how management had been slow to respond when it became clear that the development team needed more help in the run up to launch.

I agree with you on the default blame but I wonder which "management" they mean. Was it Tanaka or is Tanaka sort of lumped in with development team? I guess it's just hard for me to accept that a seasoned game designer could have ended up creating something like FFXIV without some kind of outside influence/force playing a role. I know we are arm chair quarterbacking and I wouldn't ever say I could put out a better game than he has but I sure as heck could have seen some huge gaping issues that were going to come back to bite them in the ****.
#61 Apr 07 2011 at 9:11 AM Rating: Good
In my experience, deciding where to point the finger of blame in nearly useless. When things go wrong you make a plan to fix them and get to work.

I'm sure that Tanaka is still working on FFXIV everyday. He is familiar with all the design and technical obstacles and probably has a greater influence over the specifics now than he did when his responsibilities were more expansive. If I was Wada, I would publically put a new front man into the FFXIV PR role, give him complete control, but still have the experienced project lead work WITH him.

It would be fascinating to see an actual day in the central FFXIV design studio.
#62 Apr 07 2011 at 11:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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206 posts
SmashingtonWho wrote:
It would be fascinating to see an actual day in the central FFXIV design studio.


"So, what do we have on the docket for today?"

"Well, sir... we're working on possibly implementing possible changes in the possible future. It's possible that by the end of the day, we will possibly have accomplished something. Possibly."
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#63 Apr 07 2011 at 11:52 AM Rating: Good
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200 posts
LateReg wrote:
SmashingtonWho wrote:
It would be fascinating to see an actual day in the central FFXIV design studio.


"So, what do we have on the docket for today?"

"Well, sir... we're working on possibly implementing possible changes in the possible future. It's possible that by the end of the day, we will possibly have accomplished something. Possibly."


Possibly. :)
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