Forum Settings
       
1 2 Next »
This Forum is Read Only

Patch 1.17 Outline (04/12/2011)Follow

#52 Apr 12 2011 at 3:19 PM Rating: Good
**
300 posts
'Let a premade group initiate Behest whenever, no matter how many other groups currently are doing it. That group gets its own mobs to fight like a battlecraft leve. Then lock them out for 30 to 60 minutes. Make it so you have to flag it to gain SP or XP from the mobs to prevent a group from abusing it in a way that would circumvent the timer.'

This is a great idea, basically leave the behest npc out and each player can 'flag' a behest for xp/sp every hour with the number of mobs and boss dependent on the number of people that flagged the behest.
____________________________
Drklighter of FFXI on Cerberus
Biggs Darklighter of FFXIV on Kashuan
#53 Apr 12 2011 at 4:59 PM Rating: Excellent
*
146 posts
UnicornBonesaw wrote:
'Let a premade group initiate Behest whenever, no matter how many other groups currently are doing it. That group gets its own mobs to fight like a battlecraft leve. Then lock them out for 30 to 60 minutes. Make it so you have to flag it to gain SP or XP from the mobs to prevent a group from abusing it in a way that would circumvent the timer.'

This is a great idea, basically leave the behest npc out and each player can 'flag' a behest for xp/sp every hour with the number of mobs and boss dependent on the number of people that flagged the behest.


Basically, you want a FOV
#54 Apr 12 2011 at 5:04 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
626 posts
northernsky wrote:
UnicornBonesaw wrote:
'Let a premade group initiate Behest whenever, no matter how many other groups currently are doing it. That group gets its own mobs to fight like a battlecraft leve. Then lock them out for 30 to 60 minutes. Make it so you have to flag it to gain SP or XP from the mobs to prevent a group from abusing it in a way that would circumvent the timer.'

This is a great idea, basically leave the behest npc out and each player can 'flag' a behest for xp/sp every hour with the number of mobs and boss dependent on the number of people that flagged the behest.


Basically, you want a FOV

hey sounds good to me, a rose by any other name... at least its fair and we already know it works. tweak it XIV style so its not a clone of FOV and were good.
____________________________

#55 Apr 12 2011 at 5:13 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
386 posts
pixelpop wrote:
northernsky wrote:
UnicornBonesaw wrote:
'Let a premade group initiate Behest whenever, no matter how many other groups currently are doing it. That group gets its own mobs to fight like a battlecraft leve. Then lock them out for 30 to 60 minutes. Make it so you have to flag it to gain SP or XP from the mobs to prevent a group from abusing it in a way that would circumvent the timer.'

This is a great idea, basically leave the behest npc out and each player can 'flag' a behest for xp/sp every hour with the number of mobs and boss dependent on the number of people that flagged the behest.


Basically, you want a FOV

hey sounds good to me, a rose by any other name... at least its fair and we already know it works. tweak it XIV style so its not a clone of FOV and were good.


I also think this would be a good idea.

(side note: I find it funny I got defaulted on the first page when I didn't even say anything negative about the game)
#56 Apr 12 2011 at 5:19 PM Rating: Excellent
***
1,566 posts
northernsky wrote:
UnicornBonesaw wrote:
'Let a premade group initiate Behest whenever, no matter how many other groups currently are doing it. That group gets its own mobs to fight like a battlecraft leve. Then lock them out for 30 to 60 minutes. Make it so you have to flag it to gain SP or XP from the mobs to prevent a group from abusing it in a way that would circumvent the timer.'

This is a great idea, basically leave the behest npc out and each player can 'flag' a behest for xp/sp every hour with the number of mobs and boss dependent on the number of people that flagged the behest.


Basically, you want a FOV


Well it pretty much already is FoV, accept only 15 people (eight after the patch depending on what they change) get to do it per hour. All I'm really saying is let everyone participate once an hour.
#57 Apr 12 2011 at 5:37 PM Rating: Excellent
***
3,530 posts
Heartflame wrote:
SmashingtonWho wrote:
Magnesium02 wrote:
Adjustments to the behest schedule.


I wonder what this means?

Sadly, this patch does not include a fix for targeting. The addition of UP/DOWN targeting for party member remians useless while casting spells.



This.

Other than the massive class-changing overhaul that has been promised, the targeting system needs to continue to be addressed. I can't believe that they just tried to fix it, failed, and said, "Well hey. You guys have two sh*tty targeting systems. But we'll let the player decide which one sucks less."

Everything on here pales in comparison to the fact that our classes are still undefined, redundant, and boring. Add in the fact that the targeting system is garbage, and they seem to be fine with letting it stay the way it is... Well, that's enough to make the game suck. Not that adding all the other bells and whistles aren't nice for the mean-time. But people are complaining about having a manageable party size that would reflect group dynamics, when they should be more concerned with the fact that parties aren't even good. It's just a bunch of people trying to do a zerg-fest until the mob dies. How about we use some strategy, or make it so healers can actually target their own **** party members, instead of just AoE healing over themselves.

Until the game actually has a strong foundation, all of these patches are just a feeble attempt to keep our interests. And let's face it: until the game gets overhauled, there is very little that SE can implement to make the game "better."

Sadly the problems are so great that they cannot be ignored. I am aware that there are plans in motion, and that eventually the overhaul will come. But until then, it's hard to be happy about anything in the game. Particularly that they've said nothing regarding the targeting system being fixed. I think if SE would be a little more open with what is actually being planned, I might feel a bit better. I was astounded at Yoshi-P's chart on changes and fixes. The only problem is that they weren't very detailed. I think it would be easier to deal with if we actually knew what was coming. It would give us something to be excited about, instead of reading the patch notes and saying "Oh wow. Absolutely nothing special here.... Obvious fix, obvious fix... another obvious fix... targeting is still @#%^ed up..."

Just a thought. Sorry for the rant, but it's getting ridiculous.


These are some interesting points: SE seems to be trying to fight the proverbial war on two fronts. They want to keep people mildly interested, to they scramble to shove superficial "fixes" into the game; but they also want to fix substantial issues in order to keep people for any meaningful amount of time.

By handing out these consistently unimpressive changes, they only hush the dissatisfied rabble that still even pays attention to the game. Ultimately, these bland updates may just reduce the collective quality of the fixes overall, as important things (like the targeting system) are half-done, implemented, and left for something else.

Is it better for SE to just be silent for three months, and then deliver a great update? Or is it better for SE to continually deliver poor to mediocre excuses for content as they promise to lead up to something great? I suppose time will tell... either way, their much-too-early-release will be haunting the game for a long time. >_<
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#58 Apr 12 2011 at 6:27 PM Rating: Excellent
***
1,313 posts
KaneKitty wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
With all the chaos in Japan, maybe their heads just aren't in it. I know mine wouldn't be.


Yeah, because FFXIV had been the most intelligently-developed MMORPG in history until a couple weeks ago. >_>


I was attempting to take it into consideration out of compassion for their troubles, but you're right it really has nothing to do with it.
____________________________
Eithne Draocht
My IG: archaicmachinery - Friend me!
#59 Apr 12 2011 at 8:26 PM Rating: Excellent
*
68 posts
Quote:
Is it better for SE to just be silent for three months, and then deliver a great update? Or is it better for SE to continually deliver poor to mediocre excuses for content as they promise to lead up to something great? I suppose time will tell... either way, their much-too-early-release will be haunting the game for a long time. >_<


I think the best way SE could possibly handle this problem is if they communicated more.

Everyone is clammering about the over-haul that is coming. We all want to know what's going to happen. There are some <insert a not-so-nice-name here> people that want the game to be left alone, and are horrified at the idea that the game might actually have set party roles, or that their favorite classes might not be the ridiculous things that they are now. For everyone else, the idea is a bit liberating. The game will have form, and we're looking forward to that. But it's imensly dissapointing that SE can tell us that they are doing an over-haul, but they won't give us an estimated when or even what will be in those changes. I would be much more patient if I knew that the changes were in the near future, and I knew that they would be worth waiting for.

For example: if all they're doing about class uniqueness is adding a ridiculous "license board," (talent trees for you WoW people), then I won't even bother waiting. I could go ahead and uninstall, and move on with my life. But I want the game to work, just like most people around here. It would be nice to know that SE has a plan, and they tell us what the plan is, and tell us to hold tight for a second while they work the bugs out of it. Otherwise, they're just saying, "We know there is a problem. We plan on fixing it sometime down the road. Until then, check out the lack of fluid targeting!"

For the record: I do realize that coding and programming take a long time. I'm not expecting a miraculous, over-night "ta-da!" and the game is fixed. But what I do want, is for when the development team makes a very large decision, such as how to re-do classes... maybe give us some idea of what we need to be waiting for. Every small patch they throw at us is just irritating me, because they haven't addressed the real problems. They just give us minor goodies.

The only thing I think they've learned is that the bells are just stupid, and reusing that content just reminds us of how under-developed the game is.

If anything, a small bit of communication on SE's side goes a long way. If they'd stop trying to be sneaky and word themselves around the questions, then I, (and a lot of other players I know), would probably have more faith in the game.

But seeing as SE is notorious for not telling us anything useful, I don't see it happening. This problem is just impossible to gauge.
#60 Apr 12 2011 at 11:52 PM Rating: Good
**
568 posts
Heartflame wrote:
Quote:
Is it better for SE to just be silent for three months, and then deliver a great update? Or is it better for SE to continually deliver poor to mediocre excuses for content as they promise to lead up to something great? I suppose time will tell... either way, their much-too-early-release will be haunting the game for a long time. >_<


I think the best way SE could possibly handle this problem is if they communicated more.

Everyone is clammering about the over-haul that is coming. We all want to know what's going to happen. There are some <insert a not-so-nice-name here> people that want the game to be left alone, and are horrified at the idea that the game might actually have set party roles, or that their favorite classes might not be the ridiculous things that they are now. For everyone else, the idea is a bit liberating. The game will have form, and we're looking forward to that. But it's imensly dissapointing that SE can tell us that they are doing an over-haul, but they won't give us an estimated when or even what will be in those changes. I would be much more patient if I knew that the changes were in the near future, and I knew that they would be worth waiting for.

For example: if all they're doing about class uniqueness is adding a ridiculous "license board," (talent trees for you WoW people), then I won't even bother waiting. I could go ahead and uninstall, and move on with my life. But I want the game to work, just like most people around here. It would be nice to know that SE has a plan, and they tell us what the plan is, and tell us to hold tight for a second while they work the bugs out of it. Otherwise, they're just saying, "We know there is a problem. We plan on fixing it sometime down the road. Until then, check out the lack of fluid targeting!"

For the record: I do realize that coding and programming take a long time. I'm not expecting a miraculous, over-night "ta-da!" and the game is fixed. But what I do want, is for when the development team makes a very large decision, such as how to re-do classes... maybe give us some idea of what we need to be waiting for. Every small patch they throw at us is just irritating me, because they haven't addressed the real problems. They just give us minor goodies.

The only thing I think they've learned is that the bells are just stupid, and reusing that content just reminds us of how under-developed the game is.

If anything, a small bit of communication on SE's side goes a long way. If they'd stop trying to be sneaky and word themselves around the questions, then I, (and a lot of other players I know), would probably have more faith in the game.

But seeing as SE is notorious for not telling us anything useful, I don't see it happening. This problem is just impossible to gauge.



I agree. I'd like to have some proof that the changes aren't just minor tweaks and that real, substantial, story-driven, well written and non-levelike content is coming.

Not only would it give us something to look forward to it would prove that they actually have some vision of what kind of game they want to make. Now it just looks like they're floundering with feedback and are trying to address them in a VERY lazy way.

Where I disagree though is that I expect that "ta-da" moment when these patches come. They're constantly whining about how little time they have but what they have managed to include in the game are ridiculously small tweaks that make most of XIs patches look like NGE overhauls. Did the 8 recipe cookbook really have to take 2 months to develop? How long are you going to examine the AH? A year? If they don't have some big update in the works I'm going to be really amazed how they manage waste so much time and staff to remove one button press from crafting process.

How many XIV staff members does it take to change a lightbulb? Apparently 50+ men working "diligently" while they ask the crowd to remain patient in the dark, for 12 months!

I'm going to try to stay away from XIV until patch 18 comes because with 2 months of patches combined I hope to feel at least some kind of difference.
#61 Apr 13 2011 at 12:55 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
108 posts
Heartflame wrote:
I think the best way SE could possibly handle this problem is if they communicated more.

Everyone is clammering about the over-haul that is coming. We all want to know what's going to happen. There are some <insert a not-so-nice-name here> people that want the game to be left alone, and are horrified at the idea that the game might actually have set party roles, or that their favorite classes might not be the ridiculous things that they are now. For everyone else, the idea is a bit liberating. The game will have form, and we're looking forward to that. But it's imensly dissapointing that SE can tell us that they are doing an over-haul, but they won't give us an estimated when or even what will be in those changes. I would be much more patient if I knew that the changes were in the near future, and I knew that they would be worth waiting for.

For example: if all they're doing about class uniqueness is adding a ridiculous "license board," (talent trees for you WoW people), then I won't even bother waiting. I could go ahead and uninstall, and move on with my life. But I want the game to work, just like most people around here. It would be nice to know that SE has a plan, and they tell us what the plan is, and tell us to hold tight for a second while they work the bugs out of it. Otherwise, they're just saying, "We know there is a problem. We plan on fixing it sometime down the road. Until then, check out the lack of fluid targeting!"

For the record: I do realize that coding and programming take a long time. I'm not expecting a miraculous, over-night "ta-da!" and the game is fixed. But what I do want, is for when the development team makes a very large decision, such as how to re-do classes... maybe give us some idea of what we need to be waiting for. Every small patch they throw at us is just irritating me, because they haven't addressed the real problems. They just give us minor goodies.

The only thing I think they've learned is that the bells are just stupid, and reusing that content just reminds us of how under-developed the game is.

If anything, a small bit of communication on SE's side goes a long way. If they'd stop trying to be sneaky and word themselves around the questions, then I, (and a lot of other players I know), would probably have more faith in the game.

But seeing as SE is notorious for not telling us anything useful, I don't see it happening. This problem is just impossible to gauge.


This is exactly how I feel about the issue. Communication really is the key. They need to stop witholding information about the important stuff.
#62 Apr 13 2011 at 3:44 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
386 posts
Quote:
If anything, a small bit of communication on SE's side goes a long way. If they'd stop trying to be sneaky and word themselves around the questions, then I, (and a lot of other players I know), would probably have more faith in the game.


Something I think we can all agree on, however (and I'm not trying to defend SE here) to go out on a limb, round about talking and indirect communication is a classic staple of Japanese companies used to avoid accepting responsibility for mistakes (腹芸 [haragei], etc.). Having said that, I think if anyone is going to break them away from the trends of silence it's going to be Yoshi-P. I don't know if it was his call, but the official forums in and of themselves seems to be a big leap in terms of their willingness to communicate. I'd like to think it's only a matter of time before they warm up to being more forthcoming with their communication.

Edited, Apr 13th 2011 5:45am by ThePacster
#63 Apr 13 2011 at 4:00 AM Rating: Good
***
3,416 posts
They've been doing better than many Western MMORPG companies do lately. Even their forum is like made just for us to give feedback and them to read it as efficiently as possible. They are really stressing the rep and dev participation with their features.

They do what they can, without giving us false information. This means that a) they must be sure that what they are about to say will make it to the game and there are no "empty promises" as well as b) make sure that the translations are not incorrect and that the context doesn't get lost in the translation process. They have also become better at translating the dev commentaries in English and French, even so much so that we or even the French community gets information sooner than the Japanese do.

I can't really think of a reason why they should do better than this (perhaps announce the patches a bit earlier than currently). It will never be considered "enough", we will simply keep asking for more until the developers decide that this is enough. If they post daily updates, people would ***** if there was no update for one day. There is a point where the amount of communication becomes pointless. The game is still their main priority.

And when is their communication going to become something more than "a good start"? They have been getting better and better for months now, the small hiccup of a month ago aside, is it going to be "a good start" until Yoshida posts about he taking a dumb on his 24/7 facebook video coverage? We are getting to the point where enough is enough, "this is a good start" is a mantra for last year.
____________________________
SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#64 Apr 13 2011 at 4:15 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
108 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
I can't really think of a reason why they should do better than this (perhaps announce the patches a bit earlier than currently). It will never be considered "enough", we will simply keep asking for more until the developers decide that this is enough. If they post daily updates, people would ***** if there was no update for one day. There is a point where the amount of communication becomes pointless. The game is still their main priority.


Well, they can start by telling us something (it doesn't even have to be a lot) about stuff they're implementing "soon" like the battle changes, dungeons, Grand Companies and Hamlet Battles.
#65 Apr 13 2011 at 4:31 AM Rating: Decent
***
3,416 posts
Quote:
Well, they can start by telling us something (it doesn't even have to be a lot) about stuff they're implementing "soon" like the battle changes, dungeons, Grand Companies and Hamlet Battles.


We already got something on Auto-Attack, but it wasn't much. They have been quite open about stuff they have settled the overall specs on, like crafting and some of the UI changes. Do you think they wouldn't tell us more about AA if they could?

While getting information as soon as it becomes available is a priority, even bigger priority is to make sure that the information they give out is correct. Battle system is problematic because there is a lot of stuff that they are balancing at the same time around the new system (Yoshida said this a few days ago, too). We are getting closer though. I'd expect more and more tidbits to start being revealed after 1.17a. If the combat overhaul is partial and not complete (as Yoshida said in an interview iirc), they have to decide at which point it can be considered good enough for players to be able to function with it implemented as it's a WIP.
____________________________
SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#66 Apr 13 2011 at 4:43 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
*
108 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Well, they can start by telling us something (it doesn't even have to be a lot) about stuff they're implementing "soon" like the battle changes, dungeons, Grand Companies and Hamlet Battles.


We already got something on Auto-Attack, but it wasn't much. They have been quite open about stuff they have settled the overall specs on, like crafting and some of the UI changes. Do you think they wouldn't tell us more about AA if they could?

While getting information as soon as it becomes available is a priority, even bigger priority is to make sure that the information they give out is correct. Battle system is problematic because there is a lot of stuff that they are balancing at the same time around the new system (Yoshida said this a few days ago, too). We are getting closer though. I'd expect more and more tidbits to start being revealed after 1.17a. If the combat overhaul is partial and not complete (as Yoshida said in an interview iirc), they have to decide at which point it can be considered good enough for players to be able to function with it implemented as it's a WIP.


A month ago they said they were readying a page on the Lodestone about Grand Companies. It was supposed to hit sometime before patch 1.17. Technically they still have time to fulfill this promise, but that would be a very unlikely surprise.

If they don't have solid info (which they should have now anyway), they can at least give us some teasers. Screenshots, the general idea behind the different aspects of the game they're fixing/implementing.

#67 Apr 13 2011 at 4:47 AM Rating: Default
***
3,416 posts
Quote:
A month ago they said they were readying a page on the Lodestone about Grand Companies. It was supposed to hit sometime before patch 1.17. Technically they still have time to fulfill this promise, but that would be a very unlikely surprise.


I agree that not revealing the information before 1.17 goes live would be disappointing indeed. They have scheduled a maintenance for lodestone on the day of the patch (tomorrow). It's either then or sometime later that they will give us the details.

Ready the torches and the pitchforks!
____________________________
SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#68 Apr 13 2011 at 5:13 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
353 posts
Whilst I agree that perhaps the community should be getting more info on future plans (there must be more in concrete by now surely)
I do think that:
A) Things are probably in such a state of flux regarding what's ready and what isnt with teams all working in parallel that they probably dont know specifically what's going to be finished for each patch until close to launch
B) Yoshi obviously has this thing about wanting to restore trust in the devs, so I imagine that's got something to do with not really announcing much
C) It's pretty much just beta right now, i think they've accepted that they can't make everyone happy right now and they're going to lose players, but there's not a whole lot that can be done when, as Yoshi said in a forum post like 2 days ago, they need the battle system and other basic functions in place before putting the content on top.
D) Comparing the updates to FFXI is pointless, not only are they monthly (or would be if it werent for tsunamis etc, we're pretty much exactly 2 weeks behind the original schedule from that) compared to XI's 3-month patches, but XI is also pretty much just building on top of an established system.
E) FINALLY, I believe Yoshi said that in his 8th letter he was going to address people's concerns about why some things are being done before others etc and the parallel working nature of the XIV team (they probably work in a cell-structure).
So those are my thoughts on the matter.

TLDR? Patience.

EDIT: Also concerning companies, I wouldn't be surprised if they opened the page on them just after launching 1.17, ready for the 30% update in 1.17a (they've already dev-tagged the 1.17 post for grand companies)

Edited, Apr 13th 2011 7:14am by Dlaqev
#69 Apr 13 2011 at 5:20 AM Rating: Decent
***
1,022 posts
Interesting that they are reducing the party size. But does 4 really have to be the minimum? I wish they would consider the smaller, more intimate, 2 and 3 man teams.

____________________________
Main character: AutumEmber
60blm/whm Rank 7 Windurst
Linkshell: SeraphsDarkside
Server: Bismarck
#70 Apr 13 2011 at 5:22 AM Rating: Good
***
3,416 posts
Quote:
Interesting that they are reducing the party size. But does 4 really have to be the minimum? I wish they would consider the smaller, more intimate, 2 and 3 man teams.


"Solo, duo, trio, light party, full party"? I mean, I doubt they're going to force people to only be in groups of 4-8, but the group content is designed mainly for those group sizes. Currently there is little difference between soloing and duoing anyway, you get the same SP and EXP regardless. I wonder if they will go as far as to do the same for 3 person trios.



Edited, Apr 13th 2011 11:23am by Hyanmen
____________________________
SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#71 Apr 13 2011 at 6:37 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
108 posts
Someone on the official forums pointed out that they used the dev1003 (the tag for "Public company quests") in the quest portion of the patch notes, so looks like we might actually get something Company related tomorrow ^^
#72 Apr 13 2011 at 6:50 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
***
1,449 posts
Once again I get proven right!

The more they tell us about what is going on the more information we want to know! Why do we actually need to know everything about the patch before release? Where is the thrill of logging in and just wanting to find the differences between the patches, be them new quests, mobs and just areas and such?

First the comunity argued because there was no comunication, then because it was only sporadic, then because if wasn't constant and now because its not complete.....

Whats next, wanna know the game code?
____________________________


My FFXIV Blog



#73 Apr 13 2011 at 6:50 AM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
1,707 posts
Heartflame wrote:

I think the best way SE could possibly handle this problem is if they communicated more.

Everyone is clammering about the over-haul that is coming. We all want to know what's going to happen. There are some <insert a not-so-nice-name here> people that want the game to be left alone, and are horrified at the idea that the game might actually have set party roles, or that their favorite classes might not be the ridiculous things that they are now. For everyone else, the idea is a bit liberating. The game will have form, and we're looking forward to that. But it's imensly dissapointing that SE can tell us that they are doing an over-haul, but they won't give us an estimated when or even what will be in those changes. I would be much more patient if I knew that the changes were in the near future, and I knew that they would be worth waiting for.

For example: if all they're doing about class uniqueness is adding a ridiculous "license board," (talent trees for you WoW people), then I won't even bother waiting. I could go ahead and uninstall, and move on with my life. But I want the game to work, just like most people around here. It would be nice to know that SE has a plan, and they tell us what the plan is, and tell us to hold tight for a second while they work the bugs out of it. Otherwise, they're just saying, "We know there is a problem. We plan on fixing it sometime down the road. Until then, check out the lack of fluid targeting!"

For the record: I do realize that coding and programming take a long time. I'm not expecting a miraculous, over-night "ta-da!" and the game is fixed. But what I do want, is for when the development team makes a very large decision, such as how to re-do classes... maybe give us some idea of what we need to be waiting for. Every small patch they throw at us is just irritating me, because they haven't addressed the real problems. They just give us minor goodies.

The only thing I think they've learned is that the bells are just stupid, and reusing that content just reminds us of how under-developed the game is.

If anything, a small bit of communication on SE's side goes a long way. If they'd stop trying to be sneaky and word themselves around the questions, then I, (and a lot of other players I know), would probably have more faith in the game.

But seeing as SE is notorious for not telling us anything useful, I don't see it happening. This problem is just impossible to gauge.


So have you ever watched the NFL combine? Certain high profile players will choose not to participate in certain events, like being timed in the 40 yard sprint for example. Or a QB choosing not to do the passing drills. They take a LOT of ridicule with many people asking what they are trying to hide, etc. However, for the player, their stock is always higher than if they had performed badly. If the player knows his passing accuracy is poor, or that he will time slow in the 40 - he is always better off not even performing for the scouts.

Blaine Gabbert is a great example. He doesn't participate at all at the Combine. No other QB stands out much at the combine and within a few weeks after the combine Gabbert is the consensus #2 QB expected to go in the draft with some procliaming he might go 1st overall.

Basically, it's the concept of not saying anything at all if you don't have anything good to day.

All I'm saying is that SE would probably communicate with us more IF they had good news. but if they are going to be forced to say something like, "Everything we have been working on isn't even remotely close to being ready. Each new thing we change causes a million more issues and more delays. We don't know when anything of substance will be ready for release, however, we do know it will not be anytime soon."



Edited, Apr 13th 2011 7:54am by Mithsavvy
#74 Apr 13 2011 at 6:56 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
108 posts
Hugus wrote:
Once again I get proven right!

The more they tell us about what is going on the more information we want to know! Why do we actually need to know everything about the patch before release? Where is the thrill of logging in and just wanting to find the differences between the patches, be them new quests, mobs and just areas and such?

First the comunity argued because there was no comunication, then because it was only sporadic, then because if wasn't constant and now because its not complete.....

Whats next, wanna know the game code?


I wouldn't call "we're looking in to it, and might add it in a future update!" as info. That's pretty much all they've said lately. If the game had just been released, then I would agree, but it's been almost seven months. People want to know if/why they should continue playing this game.
#75 Apr 13 2011 at 7:33 AM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
**
353 posts
Mugamaga wrote:

I wouldn't call "we're looking in to it, and might add it in a future update!" as info. That's pretty much all they've said lately. If the game had just been released, then I would agree, but it's been almost seven months. People want to know if/why they should continue playing this game.


Since when was notifying the playerbase that they've relayed the question to the dev team misconstrued as 'info'? They're letting people know that they've asked the question and that's all they can do at this point.
The game's free right now, people need to realise that the team isn't releasing these patches to keep the current lacking playerbase playing, they're rebuilding for the future of the game and that means we're not going to get lots of info yet, unfortunately.

That said, they've released a lot of information this past week concerning various things such as that big post on crafting all of a day ago. The bottom line is it's pretty much just a given at this point there'll always be people unhappy.
#76 Apr 13 2011 at 7:47 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
Avatar
***
1,449 posts
Mugamaga wrote:

I wouldn't call "we're looking in to it, and might add it in a future update!" as info. That's pretty much all they've said lately. If the game had just been released, then I would agree, but it's been almost seven months. People want to know if/why they should continue playing this game.


I wasn't so much talking about content so much as the ammount of contact now existing between SE and the players. Taking the month of March as an example (being the last full month) and definitive information available you have:

FINAL FANTASY XIV Version Update (Mar. 30)
FINAL FANTASY XIV Patch 1.16a Released (Mar. 28)
FINAL FANTASY XIV Lodestone Updated (Mar. 8)
Patch 1.16 Notes (03/03/2011)

In regard to "we're looking in to it, and might add it in a future update!" there is also a lot of information if you care to look for it:

Agro Icons. 31/03/11
Auto-Attack. 31/03/11
Death Penalty. 29/03/11
Targetting Mode. 25/03/11

Ok, just I just got tired og going through the forum but as you can see there is quite a lot of information available!!
____________________________


My FFXIV Blog



#77 Apr 13 2011 at 8:19 AM Rating: Default
**
429 posts
Hugus wrote:
Once again I get proven right!

The more they tell us about what is going on the more information we want to know! Why do we actually need to know everything about the patch before release? Where is the thrill of logging in and just wanting to find the differences between the patches, be them new quests, mobs and just areas and such?

First the comunity argued because there was no comunication, then because it was only sporadic, then because if wasn't constant and now because its not complete.....

Whats next, wanna know the game code?


Because most people DON'T like surprises or being blindfolded, especially when they're investing a lot of time (and eventually, a lot of money) into a service and there's a good chance that these updates aren't what they're looking for. They delivered us a massively sub par product. Is it really that outrageous that their ****** off customers want to know exactly what they're doing to rectify this issue?
#78 Apr 13 2011 at 8:30 AM Rating: Decent
***
3,416 posts
Quote:
Is it really that outrageous that their ****** off customers want to know exactly what they're doing to rectify this issue?


Not at all, but Square-Enix is not obliged to tell you anything. They can even shut down the service tomorrow if they deem the product unprofitable and there is nothing you can do about that.

You don't have to invest any time nor money to this product. The customer has the choice, and the ultimate responsibility. If you decide to leave it's their loss, but they don't have to do anything about that if they don't want to. It's in their best interests to appeal to the massive number of people who either left or didn't try the game at all, and that is accomplished by fixing the game, not talking to the remaining 0,1% of players that still hang around.

They can still be used for feedback purposes, though.
____________________________
SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#79 Apr 13 2011 at 8:30 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
*
181 posts
I think they're telling us more than enough. It would be nice to have a complete layout of what's in the patch a few days in advance but I'm not going to get all bent out of shape if I have to wait until the day of to find out...I kind of like reading about it while I'm waiting for the servers to come back online after downloading them anyway. As far as long term info, there's a complete layout of what they're working in the "3rd Letter from the Producer".

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=c445fc7766b876ae754d967dcabbc24abc29469f

It tells you what's planned, what the current tasks are & what they will be working on next...not only that, but they are graying out things as they get completed so you can easily see if they're doing what they said they'd do. Some of the descriptions are vague but that's probably because most of what they're doing is subject to change and details haven't been completely ironed out yet (especially changes to the battle system & class structure).

Just my opinion. Please don't default me because I share a different view. I'm not knocking anyone else's thread, just sharing how I feel ^^ I'm more than happy with what the devs have been willing to share with us thus far.
#80 Apr 13 2011 at 8:34 AM Rating: Excellent
***
1,606 posts
Kierk wrote:
When I first did a behest I assumed (wrongly) that they were *gasp* public quests.

Say what?!? You can tell it's been a while since I actually played but I had always assumed they were public quests. You've got little to do in the game to begin with and one of the few things that are in there lock some people out despite being right there? /facepalm

Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Looking forward to these! I wonder how they're planning to change enemy distribution?

I'm hoping for another epic picture like last time of the before and after that left everyone just scratching their head trying to figure out what the picture was meant to convey. Those pictures had me mesmerized trying to understand what I was supposed to get from them.

Edited, Apr 13th 2011 10:39am by MrTalos
#81 Apr 13 2011 at 8:42 AM Rating: Good
***
1,636 posts
What concerns me is that they seem to have lost their sense of urgency. Its not so much that updates have slowed down, its that they haven't picked up at all. Every patch we see minor changes that barely affect the day to day in the game, and we're getting to the point where its not cutting it. Its been 6 months now and all I hear every patch is "its a good start" or "not doing it for me, still not gonna log in". Now its possible, and been hinted by yoshida, that there are different teams working on different things simultaneously and blah blah blah it'll get here eventually. Its a hard pill to swallow for me now because the company got into this situation partially by overselling their crappy game, so they don't exactly have a ton of credibility in my eyes there, and their constant comments like "we recognize that is an issue, and we are addressing it" before adding it to the list of things we've yet to see real changes for.
____________________________


#82 Apr 13 2011 at 8:52 AM Rating: Excellent
***
3,416 posts
Quote:
Its not so much that updates have slowed down, its that they haven't picked up at all.


It has been mentioned quite a few times, recently even, that the dev teams first priority is to get the battle system rehauled. Further, Yoshida said in an interview that they are saving the majority of battle related changes to a bigger update in Spring, as it is easier to manage the development that way. However, there has been no signs that would point out that the dev team is focusing on one aspect over another with the patches so far.

That's why it's not too unreasonable to assume that the battle rehaul, which is taking most of the dev teams time, is yet to be seen and will most likely come in May (or be delayed).

They don't have much credibility indeed, which is why even with all this said only thing we can do is wait. It has been around 2-3 months since they started working on it (not six), so it's going to be soon or never.

Edited, Apr 13th 2011 2:53pm by Hyanmen
____________________________
SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#83 Apr 13 2011 at 9:13 AM Rating: Good
**
429 posts
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
Is it really that outrageous that their ****** off customers want to know exactly what they're doing to rectify this issue?


Not at all, but Square-Enix is not obliged to tell you anything. They can even shut down the service tomorrow if they deem the product unprofitable and there is nothing you can do about that.

You don't have to invest any time nor money to this product. The customer has the choice, and the ultimate responsibility. If you decide to leave it's their loss, but they don't have to do anything about that if they don't want to. It's in their best interests to appeal to the massive number of people who either left or didn't try the game at all, and that is accomplished by fixing the game, not talking to the remaining 0,1% of players that still hang around.

They can still be used for feedback purposes, though.


This post is strange to me, because although it's not enforced by a law of any kind, they are still obliged to do what the customer asks. "Their loss" is not an option for them, so they are **** well forced to do whatever it takes. They have a LOT of money and reputation at stake here if this project fails.

For the record though, blog posts about what the dev team is doing and planning are done by the guys who don't actually develop anything. There's no time taken away from development by communicating with customers, and in fact, it's part of a director's/project leader's duties to be communicating with their clients.

Furthermore, prospective FFXIV players are not going to be enthralled by a dev team that's purposely being vague or unresponsive.
#84 Apr 13 2011 at 9:19 AM Rating: Decent
**
557 posts
SE isn't in a good position now. They have one set of players, who bought their game and continue to play it. These are the only players they can really count on paying subscriptions and buying expansion packs down the road. This isn't a big group, but it's their most reliable MMO base of players.

There's another set of players--those who play other MMOs, who play other FF games, who played FFXI and gave up on FFXIV immediately. That's a much larger group. They want to appeal to this group, but they have no real guarantee that any changes they make to FFXIV will draw this group of players into the game.

They're walking a fine line--alienate players that you can count on to subscribe so you can bring in new players, or keep game mechanics in place that your reliable core players enjoy but that the other, larger group of potential customers find disagreeable?

Of course, the third path is just make a better game that satisfies both camps, but that seems to be a bit too much to ask for.
____________________________


#85 Apr 13 2011 at 9:29 AM Rating: Decent
Avatar
*****
12,709 posts
yfaithfully wrote:

Of course, the third path is just make a better game that satisfies both camps, but that seems to be a bit too much to ask for.


It's not too much to ask for, it's too much to ask for something like this to be done in a week like people seem to expect.
____________________________

#86 Apr 13 2011 at 9:30 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
118 posts
Heartflame wrote:
Until the game actually has a strong foundation, all of these patches are just a feeble attempt to keep our interests. And let's face it: until the game gets overhauled, there is very little that SE can implement to make the game "better."


Actually, all of these patches are the foundation. The new dev team was not hired to appease a stagnant player base, regardless of what you may think. They were hired to fix the game in prep for a re-launch. We are beta testers. Deal with it.

Heartflame wrote:
Sadly the problems are so great that they cannot be ignored. I am aware that there are plans in motion, and that eventually the overhaul will come. But until then, it's hard to be happy about anything in the game. Particularly that they've said nothing regarding the targeting system being fixed. I think if SE would be a little more open with what is actually being planned, I might feel a bit better. I was astounded at Yoshi-P's chart on changes and fixes. The only problem is that they weren't very detailed. I think it would be easier to deal with if we actually knew what was coming. It would give us something to be excited about, instead of reading the patch notes and saying "Oh wow. Absolutely nothing special here.... Obvious fix, obvious fix... another obvious fix... targeting is still @#%^ed up..."


Not one player is forced to sit here while this game is fixed and beta tested. If you're not satisfied with the game, put it down until they do the PS3 re-launch. You're just saying **** everyone has known since Yoshi released the results of the first player poll. This is how players wanted the game to be fixed so that they can experience the small changes to the foundation, and thus have a say in the systems before they are finalized.
#87 Apr 13 2011 at 9:33 AM Rating: Good
***
1,636 posts
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
yfaithfully wrote:

Of course, the third path is just make a better game that satisfies both camps, but that seems to be a bit too much to ask for.


It's not too much to ask for, it's too much to ask for something like this to be done in a week like people seem to expect.


I seem to recall people telling them their game was bad in August.
____________________________


#88 Apr 13 2011 at 10:01 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
***
1,449 posts
KujaKoF wrote:
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
yfaithfully wrote:

Of course, the third path is just make a better game that satisfies both camps, but that seems to be a bit too much to ask for.


It's not too much to ask for, it's too much to ask for something like this to be done in a week like people seem to expect.


I seem to recall people telling them their game was bad in August.


If they felt so strongly about it in august maybe they should have stopped playing it then.
____________________________


My FFXIV Blog



#89 Apr 13 2011 at 10:40 AM Rating: Good
***
1,566 posts
Hugus wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
yfaithfully wrote:

Of course, the third path is just make a better game that satisfies both camps, but that seems to be a bit too much to ask for.


It's not too much to ask for, it's too much to ask for something like this to be done in a week like people seem to expect.


I seem to recall people telling them their game was bad in August.


If they felt so strongly about it in august maybe they should have stopped playing it then.


The mantra back then was "it's only beta." A lot of folks, myself included were in denial that we were playing all that was to be in retail.

Like the abused fanbase we are though, we remain emotionally via dellusions of the game it could be, and the promises that the change we hope for is almost here.
#90 Apr 13 2011 at 12:09 PM Rating: Default
***
3,416 posts
Quote:
This post is strange to me, because although it's not enforced by a law of any kind, they are still obliged to do what the customer asks. "Their loss" is not an option for them, so they are **** well forced to do whatever it takes. They have a LOT of money and reputation at stake here if this project fails.


Yes, but the difference is that not each customer is worth the same effort. They may be looking for the potential customers that come back after the rehauls are done, and do not care about satisfying the current players by any means possible. It is a gamble of what, 30k people versus potentially hundreds of thousands of people. And if it wasn't for those potential customers that SE think they can lure to play the game, they would have just closed the shop by now.

Quote:
For the record though, blog posts about what the dev team is doing and planning are done by the guys who don't actually develop anything.


That sounds weird to me. While the actual posts are done by community reps and maybe the translation team, everything official they say goes through the developers and needs to be carefully planned if they don't want a backlash once what they say turns out to be false.

Communicating with the customers can be a part of a producer's duties, but by no means is it a requirement or even common in the industry. Obviously MMO's benefit from such behaviour more than other parts of the industry, but it is still not a requirement for anything. The better the game is, the less important the communication between the developers and the players becomes as well.

Lastly, with vagueness and unresponsiveness comes other benefits that may prove to be more important than being specific and responsive all the time. There will be less false info and more accurate timelines, for one. Those are the things that players accuse of the developers, but to us it is simply called as "lying to the precious customers". There is no objectively "best" way to handle the situation, you are simply picking the other side of the coin at any given time.
____________________________
SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#91 Apr 13 2011 at 1:18 PM Rating: Decent
**
429 posts
Wolfums wrote:
Because most people DON'T like surprises or being blindfolded, especially when they're investing a lot of time (and eventually, a lot of money) into a service and there's a good chance that these updates aren't what they're looking for. They delivered us a massively sub par product. Is it really that outrageous that their ****** off customers want to know exactly what they're doing to rectify this issue?


It's like Yoshida was standing behind me reading what I type. The new Letter from the Producer is exactly the kind of detail that I would like. Props to him.
#92 Apr 13 2011 at 6:45 PM Rating: Good
**
465 posts
SmashingtonWho wrote:
Sadly, this patch does not include a fix for targeting. The addition of UP/DOWN targeting for party member remians useless while casting spells.

Bit late to respond, but I'm glad you continue to bring this up.. It bears repeating.

Edited, Apr 13th 2011 8:46pm by Coyohma
____________________________
Lodestone
#93 Apr 13 2011 at 9:47 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
626 posts
Dlaqev wrote:
Mugamaga wrote:

I wouldn't call "we're looking in to it, and might add it in a future update!" as info. That's pretty much all they've said lately. If the game had just been released, then I would agree, but it's been almost seven months. People want to know if/why they should continue playing this game.


Since when was notifying the playerbase that they've relayed the question to the dev team misconstrued as 'info'? They're letting people know that they've asked the question and that's all they can do at this point.
The game's free right now, people need to realise that the team isn't releasing these patches to keep the current lacking playerbase playing, they're rebuilding for the future of the game and that means we're not going to get lots of info yet, unfortunately.

That said, they've released a lot of information this past week concerning various things such as that big post on crafting all of a day ago. The bottom line is it's pretty much just a given at this point there'll always be people unhappy.

im sorry but i think it is wrong/incorrect to take SE's word when they say things like theyre looking into it.
first off, SE has a horrible history with dealing with their playerbase, they dont give the masses (of their fans) what they want... period. and technically, they havent exhibited a whole lot since september, i just dont consider mandatory fixes as creditable effort. its mandatory because this is the business they chose and that is how keeping games alive works.
second, just fyi, according to my japanese friends, the japanese use alot of phrases, and they put being polite above many other social norms, such as "it cant be helped" and "do your best" when they go to work and stuff, which is just something we dont say here in america. they also say things like "maybe" "we'll look into it" and "thats something to consider" when they often (not everytime howerver) mean to politely say no, or just not right now so dont ask for a while.
so this all tells me that they are very aware already of just about everything people are nagging about and this is how they respond to it. so basicly, dont count on them looking into it atm or near future.

Edited, Apr 13th 2011 11:50pm by pixelpop
____________________________

#94 Apr 13 2011 at 9:51 PM Rating: Good
***
1,636 posts
I get nervous when things go on the "we're looking into it" list because I remember the interview where tanaka said something to the effect of they were so busy during beta, they didn't do any substantial looking into the player's feedback.
____________________________


#95 Apr 13 2011 at 10:23 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
626 posts
KujaKoF wrote:
I get nervous when things go on the "we're looking into it" list because I remember the interview where tanaka said something to the effect of they were so busy during beta, they didn't do any substantial looking into the player's feedback.

exactly, even during beta the developers would often say "were looking into it", however release proved no one looked into much of anything.
in post release interviews the developers admitted they dont have the best communication and listening skills which is something they wanted to work on. that means to me they admitted to saying "were looking into it" as meaning "yeah yeah yeah, were busy go away... but buy our stuff"
____________________________

#96Mistress Theonehio, Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 11:43 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I don't know...Abyssea kinds throws a wrench into this whole logic.
#97 Apr 14 2011 at 1:56 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
626 posts
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
pixelpop wrote:
Dlaqev wrote:
Mugamaga wrote:

I wouldn't call "we're looking in to it, and might add it in a future update!" as info. That's pretty much all they've said lately. If the game had just been released, then I would agree, but it's been almost seven months. People want to know if/why they should continue playing this game.


Since when was notifying the playerbase that they've relayed the question to the dev team misconstrued as 'info'? They're letting people know that they've asked the question and that's all they can do at this point.
The game's free right now, people need to realise that the team isn't releasing these patches to keep the current lacking playerbase playing, they're rebuilding for the future of the game and that means we're not going to get lots of info yet, unfortunately.

That said, they've released a lot of information this past week concerning various things such as that big post on crafting all of a day ago. The bottom line is it's pretty much just a given at this point there'll always be people unhappy.


im sorry but i think it is wrong/incorrect to take SE's word when they say things like theyre looking into it.
first off, SE has a horrible history with dealing with their playerbase, they dont give the masses (of their fans) what they want... period. and technically, they havent exhibited a whole lot since september, i just dont consider mandatory fixes as creditable effort. its mandatory because this is the business they chose and that is how keeping games alive works.
second, just fyi, according to my japanese friends, the japanese use alot of phrases, and they put being polite above many other social norms, such as "it cant be helped" and "do your best" when they go to work and stuff, which is just something we dont say here in america. they also say things like "maybe" "we'll look into it" and "thats something to consider" when they often (not everytime howerver) mean to politely say no, or just not right now so dont ask for a while.
so this all tells me that they are very aware already of just about everything people are nagging about and this is how they respond to it. so basicly, dont count on them looking into it atm or near future.

Edited, Apr 13th 2011 11:50pm by pixelpop


I don't know...Abyssea kinds throws a wrench into this whole logic.


oh yeah i played up until abbysea was released.
____________________________

1 2 Next »
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 15 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (15)