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#1 Apr 20 2011 at 6:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Following the implementation of patch 1.17, the location of retainers are now saved even in the event of server maintenance. However, it has been confirmed that as a result of this new feature, in the event that a market area on a World is interrupted for any reason, recovery operations may not proceed normally. We are currently working to address this issue.

In the meantime, we will be temporarily disabling the new feature until the fix has been implemented. Another notification will be released as soon as this issue is addressed and the feature has been reinstated.

While we work to address the issue, your retainer will no longer be repositioned automatically following any server maintenance, so please be sure to manually summon your retainers.

We apologize for any inconvenience and thank you for your patience.


http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/news/detail?newsId=e2270f637d0fea0ad21314925aeae55f542c7063
#2 Apr 20 2011 at 6:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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so they are disabling the fixed retainers to fix the retainers?
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#3 Apr 20 2011 at 9:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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My only concern with the implementation of this fix is allowing retainers to stay 24/7 even if the owner of such retainer quits, or decides to take substantial leave of absence from the game (I don't know if this is what will happen, but something that just came to mind) will the retainer remains in the game? As a result keeping a fixed price on an item that could be sold either for a lower amount or a higher amount (mostly affecting the higher amount). This probably would apply mostly to retainers who have a large inventory of the item being sold. (Crystals, etc...) In this scenario, the retainer is affecting the prices of an item that is supposed to be sold at a higher price if its demand is increased.

Hope I made sense, but as I said above, this could have an effect on prices of an item that sees an increase on its demand... perhaps there should be a weekly reset or bi-weekly. Just like the FFXI Auction house, if an item didn't sell, it was returned, making space for new prices to be set. Returning the item allowed the player understands the market wasn't in favor of a price, in terms lowering the price. It’s just something to think about.

Btw, this might not be applicable at all, since an item buying demand might take out such items from the market and make room for those items with higher prices... but my theory still stand if an item demand is constant and not out of proportion, as I said, if the retainer has a larger quantity of such item, specially crystals, which has an inventory limit of 999. Will does retainer have a negative effect on the market?

I'd like to see other people's perspective.



Edited, Apr 20th 2011 11:59am by HamtarotheHam
#4 Apr 20 2011 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
Ham it would be a non issue. If it's a wanted item people will undercut the other retainer OR people will buy out the existing one and you can raise the price.
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#5 Apr 20 2011 at 10:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Then here is my other question. If a retainer sells everything on their bazaar, and this is assuming the owner has quit or taken a long leave of absence, will the retainer be dismissed or does it stay in the market ward? and is there a limit as to how many retainers can be in one ward? The reason I ask is in case this will cause overcrowding... and hinder the ability to add the retainers of those who are currently playing.

I know these are just scenarios, but I'd love to see if this is possible.

Edited, Apr 20th 2011 12:28pm by HamtarotheHam
#6 Apr 20 2011 at 10:40 AM Rating: Decent
Empty retainers don't appear? Only empty things I've seen are PCs parked in the wards. I could be wrong?
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#7 Apr 20 2011 at 10:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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HamtarotheHam wrote:
is there a limit as to how many retainers can be in one ward?


Yep, I tried putting my retainers in the middle tailors ward the other day and it said the ward had reached its maximum capacity.

I really don't understand the whole buy from an NPC aspect of the market wards. It's already bad now with 30k people playing. How will it be with potentially hundreds of thousands playing?
#8 Apr 20 2011 at 11:20 AM Rating: Good
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this reminds me they gave us autotarget, and then took it away a few days later.


and never gave it back.
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#9 Apr 20 2011 at 11:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Mugamaga wrote:
How will it be with potentially hundreds of thousands playing?


lol.

Also once your retainer sells everything it disappears.

As for it taking up "market space".... we may need a quick discussion on "Supply and Demand" in order to solve that mystery....

Hint: if people are willing to pay the price that something is selling for.. they'll buy it.. if they aren't willing... they won't buy it...
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#10 Apr 20 2011 at 11:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Question: Wouldn't just implementing an XI style AH work?

"Oh but wait! Undercutting! Controlled market by GS!...blah blah blah" Yeah hate to say it, with the retainer system it would happen anyways, that's not my concern.

My question is, wouldn't the coding just be easier for the dev as opposed to trying to make this work? That way they can maybe focus on other things that would make this game even more worth while to people who quit or people who are thinking about playing?

It just seems to me they are trying to fit a square toddler puzzle piece into the part where the circle puzzle piece belongs...it just may not work? IDK. I would just hate to see at the end of the day, after trying to deal with making the wards work, that they end up failing and slapping up an AH in the end, then all their precious hard work and time is down the drain :/

The coding would just be a simple cut and paste and then maybe having to deal with the graphics coding to make it fit in the game? (Forgive my ignorance, I don't know much about it) Can someone explain? Thanks.
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#11 Apr 20 2011 at 11:56 AM Rating: Decent
So why does my thread get locked when I created the exact same thread but like 30 seconds earlier than this one? >.>
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#12 Apr 20 2011 at 11:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
So why does my thread get locked when I created the exact same thread but like 30 seconds earlier than this one? >.>



Maybe because it was the same thread, and maybe the admins didn't want the same topic going on under two threads? Just a guess!
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#13 Apr 20 2011 at 12:05 PM Rating: Decent
LillithaFenimore wrote:
Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
So why does my thread get locked when I created the exact same thread but like 30 seconds earlier than this one? >.>



Maybe because it was the same thread, and maybe the admins didn't want the same topic going on under two threads? Just a guess!


Well of course duplicate threads are senseless but I found it funny that he locked mine as the "dupe". lol No matter I sent him a message giving him some grief over it. :P

On topic...this shouldn't impact me too much. I agree that disabling the feature until they fix the issue is definitely the right call.
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#14 Apr 20 2011 at 12:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
LillithaFenimore wrote:
Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
So why does my thread get locked when I created the exact same thread but like 30 seconds earlier than this one? >.>



Maybe because it was the same thread, and maybe the admins didn't want the same topic going on under two threads? Just a guess!


Well of course duplicate threads are senseless but I found it funny that he locked mine as the "dupe". lol No matter I sent him a message giving him some grief over it. :P

On topic...this shouldn't impact me too much. I agree that disabling the feature until they fix the issue is definitely the right call.


Without a doubt it's the right call. Boy wouldn't it suck if some people have so much valuable items on their retainer, then all of a sudden "I am sorry we are busy crashing everything you worked for, please enjoy our epic fail moment while we lose everything that is stored, that will be all" :D Fun times!
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#15 Apr 20 2011 at 12:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think this one was answered first, so it wouldn't have made sense to close the one that didn't have any replies.

Edited, Apr 20th 2011 2:13pm by HamtarotheHam
#16 Apr 20 2011 at 12:14 PM Rating: Good
LillithaFenimore wrote:
"I am sorry we are busy crashing everything you worked for, please enjoy our epic fail moment while we lose everything that is stored, that will be all" :D Fun times!


That would destroy meh!!1!

HamtarotheHam wrote:
I think this one was replied first, so it wouldn't have made sense to close the one that didn't have any replies.

Still makes me look bad though. /sadface Nah I'm j/k it doesn't matter that much, I would rather have Osarion delete my thread though then have one of my threads sit locked on the forum. >.<
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#17 Apr 20 2011 at 12:45 PM Rating: Good
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MaverickBG wrote:
Mugamaga wrote:
How will it be with potentially hundreds of thousands playing?


lol.


Dellusional or not, I would think that's what they're aiming for.
#18 Apr 20 2011 at 10:50 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
My question is, wouldn't the coding just be easier for the dev as opposed to trying to make this work? That way they can maybe focus on other things that would make this game even more worth while to people who quit or people who are thinking about playing?


But this is FFXVI! We do things differently here! Doesn't matter if its good or bad, just so long as its different!

On a more serious note, yes, even building an AH from scratch would be easier than trying to continue to overhaul the current system. An AH is basically one big database with a UI attached to it. Its not terribly hard to do. The current system just adds all sorts of overhead to an AH system. This seems to be where things start to go bad. *shrug* I'm still hoping SE comes to their senses and just gives us an AH.
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#19 Apr 20 2011 at 11:07 PM Rating: Default
LillithaFenimore wrote:
Question: Wouldn't just implementing an XI style AH work?

"Oh but wait! Undercutting! Controlled market by GS!...blah blah blah" Yeah hate to say it, with the retainer system it would happen anyways, that's not my concern.

My question is, wouldn't the coding just be easier for the dev as opposed to trying to make this work? That way they can maybe focus on other things that would make this game even more worth while to people who quit or people who are thinking about playing?

It just seems to me they are trying to fit a square toddler puzzle piece into the part where the circle puzzle piece belongs...it just may not work? IDK. I would just hate to see at the end of the day, after trying to deal with making the wards work, that they end up failing and slapping up an AH in the end, then all their precious hard work and time is down the drain :/

The coding would just be a simple cut and paste and then maybe having to deal with the graphics coding to make it fit in the game? (Forgive my ignorance, I don't know much about it) Can someone explain? Thanks.



lol imo yes i thought the same thing, but im guessing with how much theyve done they dont wanna look dumb switching to the square whole after so much work trying to show us the magic trick of it fitting in the circle, even though if it fails later they will look worse with the whole time wasted
#20 Apr 20 2011 at 11:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Caia wrote:
Quote:
My question is, wouldn't the coding just be easier for the dev as opposed to trying to make this work? That way they can maybe focus on other things that would make this game even more worth while to people who quit or people who are thinking about playing?


But this is FFXVI! We do things differently here! Doesn't matter if its good or bad, just so long as its different!

On a more serious note, yes, even building an AH from scratch would be easier than trying to continue to overhaul the current system. An AH is basically one big database with a UI attached to it. Its not terribly hard to do. The current system just adds all sorts of overhead to an AH system. This seems to be where things start to go bad. *shrug* I'm still hoping SE comes to their senses and just gives us an AH.


*sigh* The whole "market system" or whatever they're calling it is so bad that it's not even funny anymore. Even with their "fix," it's still just a laggy, inefficient auction house... it's not like retainers can do anything that an AH couldn't do... add that it takes too long to transfer items and list things, and that it crashes randomly, and we have a system that's really not worth preserving.

I agree with what you say about it just being a needlessly complicated version of an auction house that obviously takes SE much, much more time to update and modify than "basically one big database with a UI attached to it;" SE needs to realize this and just scrap the system in favour of something that, at the very least, won't take them more than seven months to try and bring up to a "basically tolerable" level.
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#21 Apr 21 2011 at 12:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I agree with what you say about it just being a needlessly complicated version of an auction house that obviously takes SE much, much more time to update and modify than "basically one big database with a UI attached to it;" SE needs to realize this and just scrap the system in favour of something that, at the very least, won't take them more than seven months to try and bring up to a "basically tolerable" level.


They have been working on AH since January. If they weren't, they would have already made Marketplace just as efficient as AH is (all it needed was a "buy" and "sell" function to the already existing search feature). But now that they are doing exactly what you wanted, while ignoring the MP, it's not a good solution after all? Make up your mind.
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#22 Apr 21 2011 at 2:14 AM Rating: Good
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^^ I do think what you're saying seems likely, but I don't think they ever confirmed we would get an AH, just that they're looking in to it.

Edited, Apr 21st 2011 4:14am by Mugamaga
#23 Apr 21 2011 at 7:13 AM Rating: Good
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LillithaFenimore wrote:
Question: Wouldn't just implementing an XI style AH work?

"Oh but wait! Undercutting! Controlled market by GS!...blah blah blah" Yeah hate to say it, with the retainer system it would happen anyways, that's not my concern.

My question is, wouldn't the coding just be easier for the dev as opposed to trying to make this work? That way they can maybe focus on other things that would make this game even more worth while to people who quit or people who are thinking about playing?


I think this is where it differs. Yes, RMT will be there, but it also means RMT will need to assign dedicated resource 'running to the retainer' to buy the said item, as opposed to an automated script to buy it off an AH (make a macro to automate buying off an AH is too easy, while to navigate a char to a said location to buy it off a retainer makes it much much more complicated, it's just not worth the effort).

I still stick to my belief that this is to deter automation. Like how they added gobbies in FFXI eating up fish botters....

*** Adding some notes on development and production cycles ***
It's always crucial for companies to bring down maintenance/running cost, and looking at the game now, it's still at it's development stage, so it is also understandable they're investing more in this dept right now, and minimize running cost later on when the large portion of the 'developer' hands over maintenance to operation guys (ppl like GMs), maybe only a portion of the devs will stay on to develop new contents....

Well how would it incur higher cost having an AH then ? Again, I don't know exact situation, but it somehow make sense to me on SE's moves based on my understanding below.
- A special task force was put in place, in FFXI which definitely increased running cost to an unfavorable number.
- Large portion of this was due to 'bot claiming', 'bot fishing', 'bot mining', 'bot levelling'... there's been quite a lot last time..
- Learning from their mistakes on FFXI, it seems that they're really focusing on deterring any possibilities of automation in FFXIV ( things like applying caps straight up on most of the things in game, max number of yields on gathering/mining/fishing, fatigue system and this market wards thing ).
- All these, to make the system less susceptible to 'botting', so even if on rare occasion there is a bot, the GMs will be able to handle it on case by case, and there would be no need to create a Special Task Force.

hmm... quite a lot I've added, and also it's just my opinion on this, I won't say they're absolutely the truth^^


Edited, Apr 21st 2011 9:57am by Genkineko
#24 Apr 21 2011 at 11:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Genkineko wrote:
Learning from their mistakes on FFXI, it seems that they're really focusing on deterring any possibilities of automation in FFXIV


There are two problems with this, though.

The first (and this may be the biggest problem) is that, simply put, their efforts don't work: you can go to most any camp and see massive clusters of RMTs, and I'm sure you've seen a character whose head twitches around at extreme speeds as his bot tries to claim a new monsters on more than one occasion; additionally, there have been other threads about the prevalence of crafting bots and gather bots, the implications of which I'm sure can be inferred.

The second is that, in trying (and failing) to "deter automation," SE has just made a game that consists of repetitive menus and redundant actions that force people not to play and bore any real player while posing no significant challenge to a decent script. There are too many design oversights: the fact that guildleves can inject hundreds of thousands of gil into the economy in an hour (for just one person, not 8 RMTs) is more of a problem than RMT manipulating the economy (which real players do all the time anyway).

I suppose, in short, I just wanted to say that SE's focus on deterring automation is either a fabrication, or quite poorly conceived on their part. XD
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#25 Apr 22 2011 at 4:05 AM Rating: Good
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It happened so long ago, but in FFXI, RMT nearly killed the game. Not only did they completely choke off any major source of income and corner the market on all items of worth, they even blocked off endgame content (not allowing you to complete Kirin unless you paid them a fee, for example) and caused ridiculous, out-of-control inflation. I know many people who quit out of sheer frustration that these RMT caused.

It took years of corrective measures for SE (who had largely ignored the problem up till the breaking point) before they could get this back under control.

So, the fact they want to design the game with anti-RMT measures in mind from the start is not a bad thing. Left to their own devices, RMT would easily dominate the economy once more and that would be all anyone would be complaining about.

It does need to be balanced with a game that's fun to play, there's no question, but you can't make it so that it's easy for RMT to game the system, either.

KaneKitty wrote:
Genkineko wrote:
Learning from their mistakes on FFXI, it seems that they're really focusing on deterring any possibilities of automation in FFXIV


There are two problems with this, though.

The first (and this may be the biggest problem) is that, simply put, their efforts don't work: you can go to most any camp and see massive clusters of RMTs, and I'm sure you've seen a character whose head twitches around at extreme speeds as his bot tries to claim a new monsters on more than one occasion; additionally, there have been other threads about the prevalence of crafting bots and gather bots, the implications of which I'm sure can be inferred.

The second is that, in trying (and failing) to "deter automation," SE has just made a game that consists of repetitive menus and redundant actions that force people not to play and bore any real player while posing no significant challenge to a decent script. There are too many design oversights: the fact that guildleves can inject hundreds of thousands of gil into the economy in an hour (for just one person, not 8 RMTs) is more of a problem than RMT manipulating the economy (which real players do all the time anyway).

I suppose, in short, I just wanted to say that SE's focus on deterring automation is either a fabrication, or quite poorly conceived on their part. XD

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